Incline vs Preacher Curls for Biceps Growth (NEW Research)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- Alpha Progression App: alphaprogression.com/HOUSEOFH...
Timestamps:
0:48 Part I: New Data
4:24 Part II: Additional Biceps Science
6:51 Part III: General Recommendations
9:54 Part IV: Partial Range of Motion Curls?
11:52 Part V: Summary
References:
Maeo - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35819...
Maeo - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33009...
New study - jhk.termedia.pl/Regional-Hype...
Pinto - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22027...
Pedrosa - www.mdpi.com/2075-4663/11/2/39
Sato - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
Nunes - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32823...
Naito - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10328...
Naito 2 - www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/...
Buchanan - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2600619/
Costa - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33440...
Pedrosa - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33977...
Kassiano - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37015...
Music:
1) HOME - Resonance
2) HOME - New Machines
3) HOME - Before the Night
4) • [SOLD] 💫 Melodic Slowe... - Melodic Slowed Playboi Carti x Pierre Bourne Type Beat "B16A1 v2" (Prod. Fedia)
5) HOME - Resonance (Again)
Home
/ home-2001
open.spotify.com/artist/2exeb... - กีฬา
Hey man! I'm actually doing my PhD on range of motion and peer-reviewed this study before it was published. Would love to chat about this stuff with you!
Hey dude! I have seen some of your work (the meta analysis and article you collabed with Greg Nuckols). Thank you for you contribution to the research 💪
Feel free to hit me up on IG: instagram.com/houseofhypertrophy/ or if there's any other way, feel free to let me know :)
@@HouseofHypertrophy Nice, this cooperation between people who are able to organic bring information for the masses (with great commentary) and the researchers who make control experiments will be a new paradigm in the new age of effective knowledge
The preacher curls have higher resistance in the stretched position. I believe this might be the crucial difference. Stretch alone without sufficient resistance is probably useless.
@@tilfliegel Has anyone studied the integral of time and resistance? I've seen time incorporated through slower eccentric loading, but that includes eccentric loading as a variable. And I've seen resistance (e.g., 60% max vs 80% max). Have any studies teased out the individual contributions and the time-resistance integral?
@@surferdudemiYes. There are great summaries of all the research in this channel. Just search it up.
I don't get why so few studies are done with the same individual performing the two lifts we want to compare (left arm/leg exercise 1, right arm/leg exercise 2). Exercises that can be made unilateral, like incline and preacher curls, are perfect candidates for this.
I 100% agree with you :)
💯
But isn't left arm usually weaker than right? Maybe if we would take growth percent then it may not matter as much. Still this would probably be better than taking two individuals doing various exercises so yeah
@@chawker67 If shouldn't really matter if proximity to failure is equated for both arms. Or, you could have half of the group do X exercise with their weaker side (and Y exercise with their stronger side) and do the opposite with the other half of the group, and see if there's any difference.
When performing incline biceps curls, I have a tendency not to grip the dumbbell at its center. Instead, I favor one side to maintain a fully supinated grip actively. This minor adjustment seems to enhance muscle engagement for me.
Yep. That’s the trick. To have the dumbbell trying to fall away as you curl up 😉
It's still minimal. I do incline curls on cables with a rope attachment twisting against the weight as I curl. On top of that it has constant tension.
Incline dumbbell curls are goofy, when you get to heavy weights the dumbbell just keeps bumping into you.
It's fine if you feel that personally anecdotally, but the biceps are only a semi supinator. Supinating more only engages the forearm muscle...supinator (yes, that's actually what the muscle is called) more.
That's a great idea. Although I usually only do face away cable curls (the stretch and pump are insane), I gotta try this tomorrow at my pull day.
Gripping with the forefinger and thumb the tightest seems to work for me.
Works really well for db press too
Might even be the case that the incline curl group didn't train to failure as closely because, let's face it, it hurts lol. One of those exercises where it's uncomfortable. Conversely, preacher curls just feel good and the pump from those last reps feels awesome. So the trainees may have been more likely to want to go all the way with them.
Possibly! :)
Yeah I wondered this as well.
solid point
RIR should have been accounted for in the study no?
Yeah preacher curl was game changer for my biceps.
You know it's a good day when House of Hypertrophy posts a video
Flow high performance is a equally good channel with great diagrams for understand how muscle hypertrophy works 💪
Have a great day!
Damn Stright
Thank you for doing me and the fitness community a great service with your videos, keep up the good work!
Hey my friend, thank you so much the kind words and your kind donation! 🙏
No worries mate, just glad I can support you a bit
I thank those who support this channel too, on behalf of others who enjoy it.
Thank you donators.
It's 2023 and we still know so little about muscle building.
I certainly understand where you're coming from. We are far off from knowing everything, but that doesn't mean that lackluster progress has been made.
I think in the most recent years especially, progress has been made and we have learned things about training intensity, volume, rest interval durations, and even the potential mechanisms behind muscle growth :)
Man I just found this channel and I think I’m in love. Science based workouts give me so much more confidence, and I’ve been lifting for almost 20 years. Amazing work!
Great video brother. I always liked combining different variations for biceps like cable curls, incline curls, EZ bar curls, and preacher curls, and now you've confirmed it's better to alternate, thanks!
Really cool! You covered everything, thank you!
Another awesome video as always. The information you bring is so useful.
Thank you my friend!
I've watched around 6 to 8 videos and I'm impressed with the quality information you're providing... and for free no less!! I have subbed to your channel. Keep up the high quality content 👍🏼... And may God bless you and yours 🙏🏻.
I love it. Real science learns from new data and corrects. Thanks for the update.
That video is so fucking great that I don't even have the words to describe how grateful I am to you. This applies to most of your videos.
I have bad bicep genetics. In order to grow them I found that the best exercises are: Bayesian Curls (Cable), Preacher Curls (Dumbbell), Archer Curls (Cable) and Hammer Curls (Dumbbell). Keep in mind that there are no best exercises. Find something that works for you. I experimented a lot to find what works for ME. Also, how you execute the exercises (technique) plays a HUGE role. So, try to perfect your technique before running into conclusions about exercise selection. My biceps grew, even when in a caloric deficit. Other helpful tips: maybe it’d be a good idea to focus/specialize in biceps if they are truly behind compared to the rest of your physique. Don’t be afraid to go to failure, don’t be afraid to apply added quality volume. Biceps recover fast. I train them every other day, on almost every workout that I do. Some people devote a day to arms (that could work too). Maybe it’d be a good idea to train biceps first before your CNS is fried. For example, on my leg days, I perform them first but if I have pulling movements (where biceps receive some activation depending on the movement), I put them later in the workout. Lastly, be conscious on how your elbows feel. If you’re in pain, you won’t be able to train them properly! That’s why I prefer mostly cable movements or properly aligned dumbbell moves. My .02 cents.
Excellent advice, bravo..👍🏼
thats not true lol
@@manishkulasekara3408 do you want to elaborate? Not implying that my advice was gold, but definitely a good starting point .
When the elbow is directed backward, the long head of the biceps is placed in a favorable tension/length relationship, while the short head is placed in an unfavorable tension/length situation. Conversely, when the elbow is positioned forward of the body, the short head of the biceps takes priority in its function, while the long head struggles to engage. Therefore, it is necessary to alternate between these two angles.
I was going to note that, but you beat me to it. 💪
Nope, you can just do normal curls and hit them both just fine.
@@joojotin Not optimally, particularly if you consider motor subunits.
I certainly understand this logic, but as I've previously noted in the ultimate guide to biceps video, there's no direct evidence that this meaningfully alters the hypertrophy of either head, at least yet. More direct research is needed :)
biceps do not benefit from stretch mediatation
Nice work, thank you
NOTE: Everybody please consider that even if preacher curls might seem "better" than the incline bench dumbbell curls at this point, then bicep tears are known to occur while performing preacher curls. Using a weight during a preacher curl that is the same weight as you would use during a conventional bicep curl might put you at risk of an injury. If you do preacher curls, then maybe consider staying in a rep range of 10+, in order to avoid bicep tears and/or tendonitis. I'll stick with the stretched bicep on the incline bench. Thank you House of Hypertrophy for everything you do
A quick disclaimer. I am a fan of the incline curl more, but have recently put preacher curls in as well. So, If you control the weight and not ego lift and you are natural, you have a miniscule chance of tearing your bicep. So don't fear. Just control the weight, go slow on the negative and you should be fine.
Hey thanks for this observation/warning! You definitely feel a lot of strain on the pulleys during p-curls. I always worry that p-curls just give me bigger “brakes” (and leave my bis...puny ). If the location of DOMS is any indication, I feel it deep in the crook of the elbow - wait, did I mean deep in the TRUMP of the elbow? D’OH!!
10/10 vid compilations of bicep tears have steroid users, in them. I haven’t seen a video yet of a natural testing biceps
If you don't ego lift, if you're a natural, and if you stretch fully at the end and THEN do progressive overload, p curls are one of the safest exercise. If you do not stretch at the end and contract before stretching out, and then get stronger, you have a higher risk if you accidentally stretch with a higher weight. That is because your tendons are, in that case, not used to stretched positions. If you're on steroids, your muscles grow faster than your tendons which can overload tendons.
@@MightOfChristIsn't it overdoing to do both incline and preacher? I currently do barbell curls, db drag curls, incline curls, hammer curls and reverse barbell curls. I removed preacher in favor of incline but don't know if I should add it but I think that would be overdoing it. My biceps are really thin and have 0 definition, that's why I work them a lot more than other muscles
Great video as always and appreciate seeing a channel willing to admit they're wrong (which isn't even the case here) and update beliefs based on new evidence.
I personally switched from EZ curl bar preacher curls to incline curls a few weeks ago because of research advocating the benefits of the stretched position. However, I've noticed the best strength/hypertrophy gains for me have come from doing a couple of different exercises or hand positions for each muscle group, so will do both incline and preacher now.
Thank you! and it's great to hear your experience. I wish you continued gainz 💪
Preacher, hammer ,and bench incline curls do it for me ,seen the most grown using these exercises.
There's zero tension on the bicep at the bottom of incline curls, meanwhile ego weight on preacher curls -> snapcity because tension gets higher at bottom. Thus preacher curl with appropriate weight is better.
Incline curl with cable from behind (or some weird overhead externally rotated curl) might potentially give the biggest stretch with tension though.
@@skyarsenalllladd con curl for peak n all covered
You are the best! Thanks for your research!
Thank you my friend!
Thanx for the great work Hose of Hypertrophy!
My take on it.
When doing preacher curls, biceps are working more isolated and doesn’t get that little help from delts. It’s easier to unconsciously cheat in Incline curls by swinging the arms, and getting additional help from the delts.
I also think incline curls are more challenging psychologicaly because of the uncomfortable position versus preacher curls. It’s more comfortable to just curl and work hard in the preacher curl.
Although, the most important thing is to to the exercises you enjoy most and feel the best! 💪🏼😀
fans from brazil here, thx for the high quality videos ❤ 🇧🇷
Thank you my friend!
Jst an anecdote as an average gym goer: I perform a host of different exercises for biceps so I kind of have a perspective on them in the same training time frame. I found that I feel more activation and more blood pooling and swelling in general whenever I perform bicep exercises with the elbows slightly in front of the trunk of the body (like the preacher curl or simply protracting the shoulders in front of the body when doing barbell or dumbbell curls). There may be few reasons for this, one of which reminds me of another of your videos where the Bicep is really not such for an amount of people (extra -ceps that attach in the chest area) and therefore a pronated shoulder position may stimulate more those areas. Another would be about "effective range of motion" where it is easier for the mind to connect to the bicep in a slightly shortened position compared to the decline db curl therefore the hypertrophy response is higher. There is a lot of change between the 2 positions and probably it is simply better to perform both in order to train in different areas.
Hey All! Alpha Progression App: alphaprogression.com/HOUSEOFHYPERTROPHY + IMPORTANT NOTE: In the video, I depicted incline curls with twisting at the hand. In the study, based on the image provided, the subjects did *not* twist, they kept the hand supinated throughout the range of motion :)
Timestamps:
0:48 Part I: New Data
4:24 Part II: Additional Biceps Science
6:51 Part III: General Recommendations
9:54 Part IV: Partial Range of Motion Curls?
11:52 Part V: Summary
I liked preacher curls because they taught me how to get a good squeeze on the biceps, but I have since moved to doing incline curls because they help me target the biarticulate muscles of the biceps at stretched positions. But maybe I will move to face away cable curls for the added benefit of better stretch and consistency throughout the whole movement.
Ty as always. I had a resent hip replacement and my legs look like crap. I will apply this information when I return to the gym next week.
Fantastic job as always, still loving your channel bro! btw not sure if it was already discussed, but what about drag-curls? imo it's a very painful exercise (painful in a good way).
It's always fun to follow the latest research and you are doing a great job at it. Thanks a lot. In the long run, especially about such a small muscle group as the biceps, it doesn't really matter. I am willing to bet my balls, that if you are training consistently for over -say- 5 years, your biceps will reach their maximum potential, no matter if you are doing preacher, barbell, dumbbell curls, weighted chin ups, varied or steady. As long as you are training close to failure and you are applying some form of progressive overload, they will get there. Optimal training (whatever that is) will probably get you there faster though. This applies to every muscle group, but it is far more noticeable in small muscle groups.
12 years of hard training for me, the last 6 years my biceps have not grew at all (assuming same body fat level), and i have tried EVERYTHING. Every exercise under the sun, every combination of exercises, different volumes and intensities and all i got is a bicep tear, without getting any additional size. The last 2 years i am only doing weighted chin ups and no bicep isolation whatsoever. They haven't grew (naturally), but they haven't lost any size either. If you are natural, there is only so much size you can add, especially on small muscle groups like the biceps. Even enhanced athletes, like IFBB pros, you can see that their biceps reach their max potential very early in their career, and they mostly shrink later.
Thank you my friend, it's great to read your comment. I certainly agree that there are more foundational things for gains in the long term (consistently hard training)
How do you see these type of researches? So you js look them up?
I'd argue biceps is one of the hardest muscles to train CORRECTLY(a little bit of swinging and suddenly it's a hip thrust where you're barely getting any progressive overload on bicep), and the difference between doing them correctly vs swinging would make a significant difference in 5 years.
@@mkovis8587 Yes, good technique is required in pretty much every movement.
Have you tried occasionally taking a break for sometime between 10 days and a month and going back into it?
But yeah, based on my little experience, I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm fairly new to lifting, but have had various manual labor jobs over the years, and when I was younger, built muscle pretty easily. I always had decent biceps though I didn't specifically focus on them. It was like they grew easier/faster than a lot of other muscles. I think they will definitely grow considerably more with specific targeting and training, but I wouldn't be surprised if they more or less cap in a few years or so.
I would guess that preacher curls might have been more effective since, even though it doesnt achieve the same stretched length as decline curls, the load is hogher at the stretched range of motion since the arms aren't perpendicular to the floor
Maybe we need to lie flat on a bench so our arms can still be behind our body, imilar to a decline curl, while still being raised relative to the ground like in a preacher curl. 🤔
@@Blake2000 That's an interesting idea. Long ago some bodybuilders did extreme incline curls just like that, maybe it's something to try
@@Blake2000 Please elaborate on the lie flat position i didn’t understand how to do it
Possibly so!
@A5brx my thought was that if you had a more extreme angle on the bench, anywhere from say 60 to 90 degrees from vertical, as opposed to 30 degrees, you could still gain the advantages of having your arms behind your body whilst also keeping your elbows forward instead of straight down. You would have to actively resist to keep your elbows from going vertical, so it would definitely be more difficult to perform compared to a standard preacher curl. It's also fairly similar to using a cable machine as mentioned in the video, but possibly an alternative for people without access to a cable machine.
One thing you can do to improve the resistance curve of the incline curl is to try to maintain a bit of shoulder flexion at the bottom of the rep. This will increase the load at the stretched position with the cost being fatigue of the front delt. It's worth it as long as the front delt doesn't limit your ability to push the biceps to failure.
1/3 reps, partials, was the Golden Fleece I have searched for my whole life (since '78). A year in, and my trainees and I are all thrilled with our endless progress and gains.
stretched or shortened?
I've always done standing DB Curls for direct bicep work, any exercise where the wrist is fixed all the time eventually gives me pain, my biceps are not really big so i've been doing these past months one day the cable curl with the arm behind the body just like the one in the video, and the other day a DB preacher curl, both 1 arm at a time, both feel really good and hopefully now that i finished my cut and i start eating at maintenance i'll see them grow.
i had the same logic like you in mind so i started 2 months ago doing partial range incline curls and i see by far most bicep results per month
You can feel the stretch in a preacher curl directly on the bicep, closer to the elbow. When I do incline curls, i feel the stretch in the uppwr bicep and shoulders alot.
Since they measured the lower half of the bicep, where the preacher curl stretches more, that could be the reason why there was more hypertrophy for preacher curls.
Agree
That's a good point!
It is because preacher curls target more of the Short head of the Biceps which only connects to the elbow.
While incline curls challenge primarly the long head which crosses the shoulder joint (bi-articulary).
Both will grow both heads of the biceps but each other has different emphasis on each head.
@@wertyuiopasd6281 yuepp
I have never been excited for research to drop before
Great video! Top tier content as always. Loved land of speculation lol. I was wondering if the angle of inclination matters on the inclined curls, and if so, which angle would be better?
Thank you my friend! The larger the incline, the bigger the stretch. But I think around a 30-45 degree incline seems to be most common. Feel free to try out and experiement on yourself :)
Preacher curl enjoyer here. Probably my favorite biceps exercise due to how strict they can be. I mostly train machine preachers (semi supinated) and also dumbell hammer preacher curls. Before I had stumbled upon preacher curls, I was doing dumbbell concentration curls which also can be made pretty strict. Those are cool since you can adjust your torso angle slightly to change how much stretch you get. I think the slight advantage to machine preachers over free weight is that they have a hard stop to keep you from overextending your arm. I'm very comfortable working that last bit of range of motion because I perceive it as safer (regardless if I can achieve similar safety with a spotter or second arm with unilateral work). I do slightly prefer the tension curve for free weights over machines, but I think that depends on how the cam is set up on the machine - it would be pretty easy to design the hardest part at the start, rather than an entirely uniform tension curve.
With that said, I'm experimenting with incline curls especially those with some shoulder external rotation. I find it's a little easier to keep the shoulders out if I externally rotate and keep my triceps against the incline bench. We'll see. I need a bit more time training them to develop a stronger opinion about them.
How are they going mate?
@@paulread7113 Still going quite well as long as I'm mindful with my volume and the heavier sets of preacher curls. Started getting a little bit of biceps tendinopathy on one side and a little bit of medial elbow tendinopathy on the other side after pushing slightly heavier (sets of 6-7 on ez bar preachers) while upping some pressing volume. It was also a reminder that using versa grips more broadly for training back is helping keep my elbows a little happier, too.
Basically the preachers have stayed a staple of my training (4-5 sets on my push days, currently running PPL 5 days a week). I've been tolerating the DB hammer preachers pretty well, but I will probably also try to keep those into a bit higher of a rep range. It feels like the heavier sets are more stimulative, but they do cut into my ability to do my rows on the next day. If I have a rest day after push, then I'll get my sets of ~8 out and really work my brachialis. That'll get me sore for a couple days 😁
So far I've put ~1/4" on my arms in the last 6 months or so, so it's feeling like it's working well. Just around 16" arms. I think the next couple years where I work toward 17" and beyond will be telling if my training methods are effective. I still haven't loved the bayesian or incline curls as much, but I still have plenty of time to experiment with them.
@@nmnate Very interesting, thanks for your detailed reply. I have recently been doing both incline curls and preachers and have put on a small amount of size, my arms are 15.5 inches at 5"8 tall, 12st 2lbs and a small bone structure
Though the incline curl has a good stretch, the muscles tension at the most stretched is minimal due to arms hanging vertically. If bands were placed behind the bench and put the bicep at a higher tension at the stretch, it may increase the effectiveness. But that just seems too extra. Preacher curl it is! Great video! I am very excited I found this channel.
What editing software do you use tk make these videos?
Re Incline Curls or Supine bench curls: If you focus on keeping the dumbbell or bar centred in the middle of your palm when curling, you will find yourself curling in an arc, i.e. you will start to bring your elbows forward at the bottom and reverse slightly at top of movement. This will place the elbow flexors at greater mechanical disadvantage at bottom due to increased load and will start to increasingly resemble resistance curve of preachers. Arnie, Frank Zane et al all used to perform curls this way not with arms hanging straight down at start where there is little or no resistance.
support from berlin, brother.
I do a hybrid of behind the back cable curls and incline curls. i.e a seated pelican curl. I think that being primarily loaded in a stretched position is the important factor, I look forward to finding out the validity of this with future research though.
I have a hunch that the position in which the radius and ulnar are perpendicular to the force of gravity in a preacher curl is relatively more stretched on the bicep muscle than when they are perpendicular to the force of gravity in a standard incline curl but only slightly hence lack of significance.
The initial start of an exercise movement when the muscle is stretched (preacher curl) thus able to generate more initial force as the muscle is strongest is due to what's called 'Early Phase' loading. 💪
i think they're both excellent exercises to have in a routine one thing i will say however, Is that i think the incline curl might be a bit more difficult on the mind/muscle connection aspect of it since it can be a bit easy to lift with your shoulders taking out a good portion of bicep activation vs preacher curls.
If i was to do both in a routine i'd start with incline curls with a weight where you can focus on that mind/muscle connection thing than move over to preacher curls than to finish off you can just throw some weight around with hammer curls or standing bicep curls or whatever speaks to you
not a bad idea. i start with ez bar curls, then incline curls, then usually some other variation but might just finish up with preachers
I was thinking about this lately, more tension while the muscle is more stretched might mean more growth as the research suggests. Also, added partials seem to be interesting.
Please video about isometrics, nuclei training or calisthenics rings Training
Don't forget that doing the seated incline curls is more challenging in general. It's a bit of an awkward position, and you need to maintain your shoulders in that flexed state at a certain position to really get a good workout in. Seated preachers (or even standing) are more comfortable in my opinion, and thus they're easier to focus on.
Another great video . I guess I'll just do both.
This video brings up intriguing questions regarding the interpretation of "failure" and the methodology for counting reps in a workout routine. Using your example at the 11:43 timestamp as a point of reference, I find myself wondering, when can we truly consider that we have reached failure? Is it when our capacity to perform a full range of motion (ROM) diminishes, when we fail to move the weights to our intended range, or when we are completely unable to move the weights? Moreover, if each successive rep involves a decreasing range of motion, what is the correct way to count reps to failure? Should we count every attempt, or only include those where we successfully completed the full ROM?
Lyle McDonald, in true Lyle McDonald fashion, went on a multi article & video rant / dissection of this topic a couple of years ago.
Despite being able to load a preacher curl heavier, I tend to avoid them. I've heard from PTs that the leverage can increase your likelihood of bicep tears because it "fools" you into using more weight than the bicep can reasonably handle
I have a question. If you change to a neutral grip near the end range and supinate on the way down, does making the neutral grip position on the way down reduce bicep engagement, or does it even lengthen the biceps more?
That's a great question. My assumption is maintaining a supinated grip might be slighly better for both activity and stretch, but I'm not 100% sure. I should note although in the animations I depicted the incline curls being performed with a twist (neutral to supinated), the study actually involved subjects keeping their grip supinated (at least based on the image they provided). So my apologies for this!
Could it be that incline curls have little to no tension at the streached postion due to gravity, while the preacher curl has maximum tension at the extended position of the biceps due to grqvity.
Yep, could be!
@@HouseofHypertrophy yeah I wrote that b4 I finished watching 👀 Saw you mentioned that hypothesis as well. Love this channel and how quickly you correct yourself if new data comes up. Too many YT people get their ego involved.
I do what was recommended at the end where you you go failure and then do smaller reps and you really feel a stretch and i have noticed bigger gains in my biceps
Awesome to hear! thank you for sharing!
Smaller reps as in partial ROM with same weight?
@infrasonica I usually use same weight and try to get to that sweet spot but if I can't I go down abit in weight and try and there
2 of my favourite exercises. Inc db curls are oddly technical. To use the biceps as a prime mover takes focus and practise.
Few tips. Slow negatives staying supinated the whole time.
Locking the scaps into a posterior tip.. not letting front of your shoulder jut forward.
DOMs are worse off inc db for sure. They give me a perma pump.
Thanks for the update video, I regularly do incline curls and spider curls but not sure how the spiders stack up compared to preacher curls? Do you know of any data that shows differences or similarities in muscle activation between spider curls and other variations of the curl? I appreciate any knowledge you have!
see Ryan Humiston - You're Training Biceps WRONG | Backed By SCIENCE!
Not exactly mentioning spider curls but you'll see how complex the biceps mechanism is. Exercise variety is key!
For me personally , the rather awkward position of the body with incline curls is a factor of it not being as effective. I found doing barbell curls half seated on a decline bench (downward part of bench in front of the body ) produces enough stretch in the muscle to make it highly effective , both in terms of overall development and a slight emphasis on the lower part of the biceps , which is usually a region that's a little more difficult to develop.
I haven't watched the video yet, but don't they each hit 1 of the 2 heads of the bicep, so training them both is best?
Just my own anecdotal evidence but this study supports my subjective experience. I did these lifts in back to back mesos and found the preacher stimulus and pump was far superior for me and allowed greater leverage for greater load. The ROM still allowed a full stretch at the bottom as well.
Subjectively, the incline curls felt almost disconnected, a bit uncomfortable, and weaker with lesser pumps. Was training both to failure (always ending in a partial). Best biceps growth Ive experienced was with a combo of preacher and barbell curls. But remember: these studies are generalized but ypu cpuld be an exception or have a reason to do the less "optimal lift" based on a variety of factors.
I agree with your hypothesis. I truly believe that the stretch requires load otherwise it's useless. ie doing a hamstring stretch isn't going to hypertrophy your hamstrings.
At the bottom of the incline curl there is no load and with that it's harder to get out of the bottom which could lead to quicker failure.
That's true! but there is a distinction between stretch during an exercise (even if it's not more challenging there) compared to pure static stretching with no contracting forces :)
@@HouseofHypertrophy But isn't that the problem with the bottom of the incline though, that it's literally a weighted static stretch in that moment at the bottom. Compare that to let's say your arm out parallel to the floor in a supinated position which does contain some contractive force
In the incline bicep curl, the biceps is not really challanged at the lengthend position that much if you use dumbells because they pull down with gravity and so its like holding a bag with a straight arm. right? you can manipulate the initial position by holding your arm in a less incline position to have some resistance but, ye. maby incline with a cabel connected so that you match the powercurve of your biceps and still have great resistance at the initial position woult be better??
I find Bayesian curl( face away cable curl) really activates the outer longhead bicep.😊
I'm certain a study of the Bayesian curl would yield statistical significance.
is it better to drink cold or warm water during a workout?
There is also a good possibility that some women had far less trained arms than others leading to more noobie gaines. Upper body for women is a bit what lower body is for men in terms of not wanting too much development or disliking working it.
Hey, does anyone know a good whey isolate protein brand that I can buy bulk of and that won't break the bank?
I’ve literally never seen a more science backed fitness channel in my life. It’s literally a science channel that does fitness
Use cables, take a big step forward so the lengthened position (hand position behind shoulders) stretches the bicep under load. I do these as partials in the lengthened position. Are they better than preacher curls? Dont know yet.
Biceps' architecture is pretty solid and their leverages explain a lot. Even though we didn't have this preacher vs incline comparison we pretty much knew that the preacher is just better because the biceps doesn't get meaningful passive tension since it doesn't reach the descending limb of the force-length r. and they have the best leverage at extended arms.
It is also interesting that EMG is not a bulletproof way to see muscle growth (like hamstrings blowing up on the reader in the recent squat vs. hip thrust yet they grew nothing) but it is still a good way to see where the muscle has leverage to do the exercise.
I love your videos, I know some people will run with it and say the extremes like "never do incline curl" but having someone analyzing and expressing his own thoughts is truly appreciated.
I was never really a fun of incline curl and many people preferred saying "but this huge bodybuilder did it" and finally we have a good data to show just because someone is doing something it doesn't mean it is a one way road.
Body builders have known partials get the gains for years.
Not all bodybuilders train identically, and I'm sure there are quite a few who stick to full ROM. But I do understand your comment, some of them have likely been using partial ROM at long lengths. Ultimately, data is what provides credence to practises. As we know, there are other examples where data fails to support some of the more common traditional practises of bodybuilders :)
@@HouseofHypertrophy great point though I do think if we consider body builders as a cohort and average out their training regimes likely the most effect things are the ones being implemented. I'm not sure research has proven anything wrong that was university loved by modern day successfully professional body builders as a cohort.
Just a question, is DOMS caused by muscle damage?
whats better: initial partial vs full r.o.m for preacher curl?
Did they finish that study yet that was being worked on when you made this video?
Not yet, I'm not sure when the researchers are planning to publish it. Whenever it does come out, I'll have an update :)
New stile with lights is very cool! Yet i thing it gonna work even better if not using light always and leave it only for accent moments.
Appreciate the content btw
had a few questions
do wide grip pulldowns or rows engage the lats more?
how can I improve grip strength because it seems like my grip strength is not on par and I'm training absolutely raw without any equipment and it seems like my grip strength is holding me back; for example while doing the conventional deadlift I use a hundred kilos but I drop the weight unintentionally after 3 reps without the concentric slowing down so I believe I can do a few more reps
Another thing was why some pulling exercises like pull ups hurt my wrist so bad , the alignment was fine but I guess maybe the grip strength is not enough because I gained weight recently?
Also I'm was worried about injuring my growth plate , I might be worrying a bit too much but im worried because I don't know how much force is required for a fracture to take place because it didn't get hit that hard and the pain is not like typical bone related pain that happens with touching or pressing but I'm worried because the pull up wrist injury happened like 3 weeks ago and although I waited a week to recover it steel hurts but the weird thing is that it doesn't hurt at all when I workout but it hurts mildy when I flex my wrist around it starts to hurt right after I get out of the pain free ROM but the problem is it hurts more than the other wrist and my wrist got hit today(very mild and on a relatively soft surface with a not so small surface area)but the wrist injury felt a bit off so I had to ask also the grip strength problem is not related to the injury because it started before
Sorry for the long comment btw
Use straps... the pros and the big boys do!
Your bones, tendons and ligaments will strengthen and develop at a far slower rate than your muscles.
@@s.wilson5675 sadly yes that's Def one of the biggest limiting factors for strength(for pro lifters)
But I just wanted to make sure it's not a skeletal damage and it's only tendon and ligaments, any tips on that ?
@@lime7152 Seek professional advice if you're worried about an injury.
Generally speaking, search strength and conditioning education training-for-kids
@3:19 very inspiring and true
So what would be better fr incline curls 45 or 70degree?
Also, did both groups eat equaly? Did they monitor their nutrition?
While the incline curl puts the shoulder in a more extended position, we mustn't forget that the tension when the elbow is extended is close to zero (this is because the angle between the force and the forearm is close to 180°). I'm not surprised that the preacher curl, that puts tension is the long length partial of the elbow is more effective.
To sum up, the incline curl stretches the biceps more, but it doesn't offer tension in the long length partial of the repetition.
Is it recommended to do Preacher Curls before Incline Bicep Curls then?
On the shady w preacher vs incline, would it make more sense to use one arm on one ex and other for other? If it was done with DBs?
I believe this would have been a better study design, since doing this would minimze genetics confounding the results :)
Noti gang gang 🔔
Some lifters may experience inflammation of the long head of the biceps doing incline bench curls. The stretch position contributes to this. The problem may present itself quickly after incorporating the exercise into a program or can take several months to manifest.
My theory is that this is because of the angle when working with free weights.. The inclined preacher although starts from a longer stretch, because of how gravity works at the start of the movement you dont have to make a big effort to start moving the weight. The opposite happens with the preacher curl.
My suggestion would be to do this same studies but with cables since the tension is constant and the stretch of the incline is on an advantage with cables in comparison with the free weight. Conversely the preacher curl done with a cable would keep the same constant removing the advantage in comparison with the seated version.
To do the bicep curls standing with cables is in my bro-science brain is better.
Yep, I think this could be a possibility!
so which one is bztter incline or preacher curls
I feel like this has been intuitive in the body building community for a while. In an incline curl yes the biceps are stretched, but it’s stretched under no load (arms straight down) and the hardest part of the curl doesn’t occur there. In a preacher curl, the hardest part of the curl occurs during the stretched position
For maximal stretch and power when your biceps is max stretched you need a flat or even a decline bench. With a incline biceps curl the biceps will be max strets out but the biceps put max power at 90°.(in this position) so not optimal like a flat or decline bench.
It does seem odd that for basically any other muscle, movements that load the stretch are more hypertrophic. Humiston just released a video yesterday that touched on incline curls, and he also noted the same, that stretch movements are good for any other muscle group except for biceps, due to (in his mind) his EMG showing low activation for incline and some study that said incline curls have "inefficient actin-myosin coupling." We know that EMG isn't a reliable indicator of hypertrophy, and the second point I have no clue what that means lmao. But it's interesting he found the same thing.
Regardless... I think it's odd. I'll continue to do incline curls, preacher curls, hammer curls myself. Seems like a good selection and there's no way I'm going to simply quit incline curls. Based on research showing stretch movements are more hypertrophic for any other muscle in the body, I'll conclude that there's some other thing missing here and that incline curls are still effective, until proven otherwise.
When looking at the graph and the differences of only 2 to 8% it stands to reason how good the measurements potentially were. I have trouble enough feeling like i'm getting an accurate measurement when i measure anything on my body with any degree of fat or give in the skin. And then there is the question of if the same locations are being measured and how would the researches know they are. Measuring in slightly different places can easily account for a few percent of differences.
When there are problems in other places of the study it has me questioning basic stuff like this as well.
Heavy preacher curls first then move over to incline curls, perfect super set!!!
In a year from now, will we all be doing lateral dumbbell raises lying on the side like Arnold to maximize load in the stretched position?
Anyways you should be doing both
Add to that a preacher curl (single hand) is easier to go BEYOND failure
Upon failure you spot your hand and go to negatives failure.
This makes Preacher curls a must add to anyone's training regimen
Have you read "Body by science" by Doug Mcguff? What are your opinions?
I know this is a 10 months old video, so it's a long shot you'll see this comment, but I wanted to ask if you could address the cable height for behind-the-back bicep curls in a future video.
Jeff Nippard suggests wrist height because it creates the most tension when your arm forms a 90-degree angle with the cable. Would be great to hear your thoughts!
Thanks for all the amazing info on your channel, I'm a huge fan!
I'd say so long as feel signficantly challenging at the start portion at the curl, that's what we want. You can experiement around with different heights to see which feels best for this purpose :) Thank you for the support by the way, that means a lot!
This video supports the use of both full & partial ROM, whereas towards failure, Arnold schwarzenegger often finished sets w/ "cheat curls" which work out the fatigued muscle groups in the stretched position.
Very Interesting!!!
I can't be sending you the actual cost of a cup of Turkish coffee but have an imaginery one on me ☕
It's enjoyable watching these vids post training eating.
I wonder to what extent the stability provided by having the elbows supported during the preacher curl may allow for more load and/or proximity to true failure, thus increasing volume and hypertrophy stimulus. I think the peak loading in the stretched ROM is the biggest factor though.
Stability certainly could be another factor in play, but I think it's difficult to know to what extent though. It may not be that substantial, one previous study finds similar elbow flexor growth between a program containing machine curling (more stablity) compared to free weight curling (less stablility): pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32358310/
So the best exercise for biceps grow is a decline curl, so the shoulder is extended and in the lenghted position the biceps gets the most tension
Sooo many angles may be different. What was the angle of the preacher bench? Some are 45 deg. iss while others are 90 deg. Sime with inc. curls.Range of motion may vary greatly.
Ive been trying both out for awhile and preacher curls by far have been better for me. Much harder to cheat so when Im pushing to failure, I can really target and destroy my arms.
Incline have been meh for me. The tension isnt enough at the starting postion (at least for me) which is the reason so yeah, preachers are my main go to and ill go to other exercises if I want more.
The difference between these two exercises isnt about bicep in completely stretched position based on shoulder position.. rather its about the LOAD of the muscle in its stretched position... so while incline curl may have a more lengthened bicep muscle, the preacher curl has FAR more load on the bicep at the stretched position; incline curl has the weight hanging (0 load) at the bottom. This is why. you should compare something like a cable curl (that has your shoulder in a similar position to the incline curl) with the preacher curl to eliminate load at extension difference being the confounding variable
Housewife of Hypertrophy would be a great partner channel for women's fitness.
Bruh.