Thank you Johan! Thanks for not cutting out the beginning "interruption" in the video. That honest laughter is contagious and welcomed! As for the tubes, I'm not hearing any significant differences but I'm also without headphones at the moment. Cheers!
@@kbkman7742 I tried EH ECC83 / 12AX7 valves I didn't like them at all. Kind of thin and nasal sounding to my ears. I prefer JJs of all the new production valves. Broader spread of sound, a tinge darker. I suppose a lot depends on the guitars and amps nuances too in order to find the magic combination. My old Mullards are best of all, but frighteningly expensive these days. I also have Brimars and UK made Mazdas, all distant to the Mullards in all out tone. Damn I spent some coin on valaves!
This reminds me of your test with the comparison of the mallard tubes you did a week or two ago. Yes, there is a difference, but every tone you gave us was not only usable, but very pleasing. When searching for the "ultimate tone" I generally avoid the discussion of price, but in the case of these tubes (and the mullards too), the difference is marginal at best. If all costs were the same, my ear generally finds the 50/60s KT66 to be a slightly smoother. Then again, any perceived difference might be eliminated with the smallest adjustments of a tone knob. Another excellent video to be sure!
This is probably the best tube comparison vid I’ve listened too online-thanks! To my ear, the midrange tonal richness and articulation falls down in the 2016 Lion, and is excellent in the vintage GECs. There’s a discernible difference between the 2 GECs too, but both sound great, and IMHO, both stand head and shoulders above the Lion in that all-important midrange.
I compared my ‘50’s, 60’s & ‘70’s GEC’s to the new Gold Lion’s in my Marshall Astoria Custom. I have around 20 sets of original ones and the new Gold Lion’s actually sound really great and have slightly more bite and clarity on the top end. I’ve owned and built Bluesbreaker combo’s/JTM45’s for the last 30 years. I’m really surprised how good these new versions of KT66’s sound! The gray insides on the originals were due to a graphite coating being sprayed inside to help reduce heat. From the 1st of January 1962 the bottles were clear and the plate structure improved to compensate for the heat. The average lifespan of the GEC valve was 8,000 hours with 10,000 hours not being uncommon. I wonder what the specs are on these new Gold Lion’s? But..., sonically they are really close. Thanks Johan for doing this. Now we need a comparison of an original EL34 to all the new versions....😁
Good morning Johan:I did a little research..I'm in a agreement with you Mullards tubes I've seen around awhile. My father owned Auto parts stores on the east coast and sold everything from lawn mower stop stereo and t.v.s. he used to have this big gigantic tube tester case that looked like a pinball machine where people would come in and check their tubes . And he stocked them in a locked room..I was a kid that's where I got my Sylvania tubes and R.C.A Tubes for my small amps . I remember a Mulkard logo but don't remember seeing the tubes. I've always liked SYLVANIA..nobody in America makes them anymore that I know of. But your sounds we're great .!!!!cheers
The gold lion tube had more headroom, probably because it’s newer with greater emissions strength, biasing it a little cooler probably could have gotten it to break up sooner. Other than that they sound identical, put some more hours on the gold lion and it will sound identical
Great vid Johan. I love the tones of KT66's in the power stage. The Golden Lion does well but the old GECs were something special ... my 1966 30 watt plexi JTM 45 has an original 1960's GEC and a pre 1976 replacement Pinnacle (GEC copy) in the power stage and they really sound awesome.
Very relivant to my interests, thanks for doing that his one, Johan! The Gold Lions have been at the top of my list to replace the JJs in my Vintage/Modern. Sounds like they'll be a good choice.
Ha love the interuption! For modern Tubes I really like the Genelax Gold lions. Highly recommended if you don't shop around for NOS. Really want some NOS mullard and genelax but the prices are scary. Great Vid as always Johan
They all sound good... Old tube #2 seemed to break up earlier at the treble side. Dare I say that the old tubes sound a bit older? As ever we all love your cheeky sg chords, they all sound great when you're driving.
GEC = better. But the cost to benefit ratio is however too small unless you have a big wallet. In that case you could get any tone you want. But the majority of tone however often comes from the acoustics of the room one records in. This is quite convincingly and brilliantly displayed by Johan's warehouse and stairs recording.
Great! I have the Gold Lions in my Kendrick. Love 'em. Here the vintage tubes sound just a touch better - richer, more complex. The difference is subtle but unmistakable. The question is whether anyone but but the player could tell the difference, especially in a live environment or in a mix. Also, once we add to the signal chain, how audible is that ~1% "improvement" going to be? For the difference in price, I'll take the Gold Lions. Of course, I wish I'd had the foresight to stash away a bunch of the originals in the 70s! Keep at it Johan. This is fabulous work you're doing.
Missing the live play and chat due to watching that famous cycling race around France that is currently happening. I liked the sound of the Gold Lion KT66 e for some reason
In this video the old ones sound better, they are warmer and more articulate. I have to say that my Jtm45 that is equipped with the Gold Lions started to sound as good after proper breakin, and, at least in my amp, the bias drifted quite a bit after a while, and I had to readjust it. Anyway, for a modern production tube they rock! As usual Johan, this is another great video!
Good demo. Have had some troubles with the JTM45 Mick Grabham built for me. I think the old GEC's may have some weird problem with one or both of them, so may be looking for a modern equivalent. Gold Lions are pretty close but a little more clear and harsh a bit. I have a Valve Art KT66 set so this weekend am swapping them around to see if the power tubes might be having a problem. The amp is fantastic and going to do a new video with the Santucci replica and Vintage NOS wire PAF replicas. Amp has been at the tech for 7 months and have forgotten how incredible it is....Thanks for the great demo.
Dang dude it's hard to tell which one sounds better. But if I had to choose which tubes I would run my amp with on stage I would choose the 2016 Gold Lion.
@@JohanSegeborn The only thing I noticed was that the gold lion sounded a little "crisper and cleaner" in the distortion part, and I preferred them. Tonally they seemed identical to me. As always, you bring such informative content
The Gold Lion sounds much cleaner and crisper to my ears, but that GEC (tube 2) had a cool chime to it! It seems like it's hard to go wrong with the Gold Lions though. Thanks for such a great video comparison!
wow..... Interesting video again Johan..... Genalex make amazing tubes these days and of course old stock sound a bit different though.... their 6V6, ECC83 and KT66, GZ34 are amazing. No advertisement purposes here.
Åmål blues fest on Friday! A great Canadian blues guitarist is playing, JWJones, I hope you can go see him! As for KT66s..I’m embarrassed to say I once had a stash of over a dozen of these, but I was into hifi and my hifi amps used EL34s, so I sold all my KT66s in the 1990s! I should’ve kept a few... but when there are bills to pay you tend to get practical about these things... The modern repro sounds fine in this amp to me. Cheers and keep on enjoying getting out with the kids on long summer days.
The gold lion is just a little more balanced than the others. Just a matter of preference as to which one to go with. Though, a lot of times unbalance is desirable. I personally would be happy with any of them.
GEC tube two is perhaps the best compromise in the group, I like the lion on bridge pickup but it becomes too dark on neck. I personally would take the lion because of how I play but I could see other people taking the GEC tube two.
I'd go for the 2016 Gold Lion. It sounds great, and NOS tubes are expensive. It sounds slightly cleaner and tighter, but barely different, and recorded, at least, it doesn't sound like the GECs are more complex in the mids or anything like that.
We use multiple riffs to compensate for the influence of playing. I think the differences between the tubes were basically the same in the several riffs that was played here. And the tubes themselves can of course be broken down into parameters. Cheers
I hear no substantial differences. There WAS something I liked more about GEC tube 1 but it was pretty subtle. I don't know the difference in prices but if it's hundreds of dollars, I'd say the new stuff is just as good.
The New Gold Lion KT66 actually sounds pretty good, especially on some of higher-fretted chord work. There might have been some subtle differences between it and the other two, but I couldn't really articulate what they are.
I thought they both sounded nice and the vintage ones had more of the Marshall (vintage marshall) type highs. Im really looking forward to putting some kt77's in my Marshall DSL100HR next time i changed the tubes. Sadly its in the shop having an issue fixed with the effects loop/switching that all the early units had.
If I blew up a vintage tube I’d be happy with the Gold Lion. Very little difference between them. But if I had to pick a favorite it’d be the GEC Tube 2. Just a little warmer. And it has the best looking logo. That’s how close I hear them, the logo is the main decider.
The older ones are certainly warmer with darker lows and mids ... as expected the new tube is much brighter with a little more bite that might disappear quickly with the burn time you could put in Johan
The tube 2 GEC had a more enveloping/ bigger 3D sound hard to describe but I felt it ....and airy. Then the other GEC had a lil more highs than both of them and the Gold Lion was a lil more mellow without as much top end harmonics and was cleaner. I like tube 2 GEC then the other GEC then the Gold Lion but if I wasn't listening so close I might not be able to tell.
The one with the oval Gold Label sounded darker and almost a little bit muddy, the other gec and the Gold Lion sound almost identical and they both have more note separation and more clarity then that other tube
I have a Genelex gold lion 12 ax7 in my Bugera v5. Got it from Upscale Audio. It's great. I think it's from the Russian factory. I overdrive it a little with the gain control and add a touch of the amp's reverb. Great sound for blues riffing. Good presence and low note articulation.
Hey Johan nice video. Could you please do a video comparing how different pre-amp tubes (with different gain factors), affect the sound of an amp for gain and headroom? For example comparing 12AX7 vs 12AT7 vs 12AY7 vs 5751, this last one used by Stevie Ray Vaughan techs to increase clean headroom. In my opinion changing pre-amp tubes have more impact in changing sound than power tubes.
THE GECs will last for a minimum of 10000 hours in a well adjusted amp. For most of us players playing for a few hours on a weekend, that is 50 years + of great tone. Insane....
Great video, but I would've liked to have heard these tubes overdriven, to get an idea of what they would sound like, in a heavy blues or heavy rock, or metal type playing application. Thanks.
When these comparison videos come up, I try to just listen and not watch which tube is which. I couldn't notice a significant auditory difference in any clip. Some clips were brighter/more crisp than others, which I assume is the newer tube. Those minute tonal differences could be made virtually non-existent with EQ.
I percieved more complexity in the bass and lower mids in the old tubes. Perhaps a little more immediacy in the top end in the new one. The Johan was perfect.
I'm looking to buy a quad of these Gold Lion for a stereo audio amp.... Wound up here and really surprised at some of the responses. I thought the best of the Vintage GEC was the more complex and best tone without a doubt. Sounded bigger, larger, more swirl and harmonic content. The vintage tubes were more 3D...more dimensional. Gold Lion sounded a bit more flat. I was left a bit bummed at just how different they were. Honestly, this is somewhat of the difference between the best of NOS vs new production. Not that the Gold Lion were bad per say...but the difference was there.
I "preferred" the second vintage GEC. But the price difference is not worth the tonal difference. The new Gold Lions sounded damn good! To my not-very-discriminating ears, tubes *DO* make a difference, but not as much as a great axe, a great amp, good speakers in a good cab, and of course, the biggest factor in great tone is the skilled player who listens and knows how to get great sound out of them. Dude! You *are* that player.
Hi. After two years I don’t know if you will remember but, os that gold lion brand new? Very few hours on it? Sounds cleaner than the old, the top end is sweeter, bottom end tighter and I like the mod range a little more. The old ones sound more complex on the harmonic content wish I like a lot and kind of more extended towards the bass and treble. The overall tone is very close and I like them both. Wonder how will be the comparison if the gold lion was fully burned in, because my guess is that it’s not.
Of course, the tubes can be compared, but the biggest difference comes from the power output. Without feedback, the A-Class gives a completely different sound.
I hear just a bit more body in the GEC's and the GEC's breakup may be somewhat more smoother and complex. Not by an earthshaking amount though. I'd be happy with the Gold Lions. The GEC's sound just a bit more rich, smooth and complex. Good comparison.
Hi, Johan! I am never coming at time.:;( For me Gold Lion was the best one, but with the reverb my phone's speaker said: "Its the same one". GEC is good just like Gold Lion, but NOT tube 2! All right, thank you for the video! C.U. Zigfrid And SORRY, BUT who was the young man, who came during the description? Mr. Segeborn Jr!?:-)
Hi Johan another great video, as usual. That nephew of yours is cute and unexpected. As for the valves I confess my ignorance and lack of hearing, they sound the same to my deaf ears. However there's one thing that capture my attention, what is the reverb you are using? Cheers.
There is some difference, but it can be negated with some EQ. The new one sounds a bit brighter. The old one is darker, warmer. What's the amp, didn't catch that part.
Hey Johan have you ever played the Blues King? I've been trying to find how it sounds compared to some of the classic supro amps like the 1624 but can't find anything
@@JohanSegeborn darn 1 more question have you ever compared the Marshall 18 watt with a 6g3 deluxe I keep hearing that they're comparable but I've never seen an actual comparison
As mentioned before, GEC tube 2 is the best of all. Gold Lion always sounds weak (less soundstage) and fizzier in the mid highs. However, if someone will be playing crunch stuff the most of the time it's almost unnoticeable. I think we're splitting hairs anyway. For the price, the EH tubes are a no brainer.
Time to do another video on pre-amp tubes where three cheap tubes, such as JJs, are in positions 2, 3, 4 and a quality tube is in position 1. (I use Watford Valves' Harma Retro Cryogenic in position 1. It is very clean and is supposed to sound like an old Mullard.)
Johan will u do a video seeing how good you can make the dsl40cr sound? Maybe compare it to a jcm 800 or superlead? Mainly. The classic gain red channel
Good job Johan. I like the 60-s tubes better nice and clean minimal distortion. I was told Germany makes the best tubes EL-34s and KT-66s Is this true???
I hear more breakup with the old tubes. Fatter, squishier bottom. Also much softer and thick n warm sounding. The 2 did sound different to each other but to my ear both are much preferable to the new one. New one was much more focused. More compressed?? I'd definitely hunt down the vintage version if I needed kt66. Then again I have hunted down vintage GE 6550s for my Marshall (still have 2 more backups )( will never deviate from those ) so I tend to just like vintage tubes more in my Marshall. For my JTM 30 it's kt77s
There's really not a lot between them in this one for me. If anything in some examples the new tube actually seemed to have a touch more clarity and headroom or at least a little more response in the higher frequencies.
to me, the GEC's sound more 'even' in their beginning stages of breakup. they sound a touch more compressed and like they're just crying out to be pushed harder. the Gold Lion's sound a touch more open, 'bigger' and slightly more dynamic, like they'd be better for cleaner stuff. i personally like the feel of increased dynamics with the big, bold, open sound. so my leaning would be towards the Gold Lions, at least for these cleaner examples. that said, i really feel like those GEC's bloom when pushed harder.
Dear Johan thank you for your nice videos... I have one fender super reveb silverface ab763 1969 model...i only use vibrato channel , the clean sound of it is nice and awesome but when i use big muff or fuzz pedals the sound is not good and its harsh...what kind of power and pre amp tubes do you suggest for getting smooth sound when i use big muff snd fuzz ? Consider that My amp is totally restored and i change all the caps with new one but the tubes are old and russian and i didnt change them... Do you thing any modification will help or not? I will apprecite you if you help me...
I thought I preferred one then I thought I preferred the other... Then I listened blindly and half the time I couldn't even tell where the transitions were. Both sound good, differences seem rather negligible to me.
I have terrible ears but I thought the GEC 2 tube sounded more to my liking than the other two. If it was a blind test I’d probably mix them up though...
Have any of you KT66 fans had a chance to compare Tung Sol KT66's with others? I ask because of the lower filament current spec (900ma). I love KT66's but I've got a couple amps that may not have sufficient current capacity for other KT66's.
The highs in the gec are far more pleasing. However who's to say the gold lions won't sound better after 60 years? And how do we know what the gec sounded like when new? I imagine a lot different!
the GEC Tube 2 seems to have the biggest sound - to my ears the others sound thin
Thank you Johan! Thanks for not cutting out the beginning "interruption" in the video. That honest laughter is contagious and welcomed! As for the tubes, I'm not hearing any significant differences but I'm also without headphones at the moment. Cheers!
Cheers Chris :-)
very subtle difference but the GEC sounded a little smoother
Good job by Electro Harmonix re-creating the Genelex KT66. I would like to hear it really pushed hard to see if the harmonic content holds up.
They've done a great job with a lot of the current tubes. Their own branded preamp tubes and el84s are excellent IME
@@kbkman7742 that's true..... .
@@kbkman7742 I tried EH ECC83 / 12AX7 valves I didn't like them at all. Kind of thin and nasal sounding to my ears. I prefer JJs of all the new production valves. Broader spread of sound, a tinge darker. I suppose a lot depends on the guitars and amps nuances too in order to find the magic combination. My old Mullards are best of all, but frighteningly expensive these days. I also have Brimars and UK made Mazdas, all distant to the Mullards in all out tone. Damn I spent some coin on valaves!
Johan's tones are so warm here that I might consider heating my house with them next winter.
That's funny right there
Cheers Joe ;-)
But could you afford the electricity bill?
@@dpb22 Solar Marshall
I can heat the house with my amp, tubes are cooking hot
The 2016 Gold Lion is perfectly suitable for touring etc. but for recording, absolutely nothing compares to the original GEC's
The sparkle and harmonix are beautiful in those old tubes. As usual it's all down to personal preferences. Top class video as usual :-)
Thanks William! Cheers
This reminds me of your test with the comparison of the mallard tubes you did a week or two ago. Yes, there is a difference, but every tone you gave us was not only usable, but very pleasing. When searching for the "ultimate tone" I generally avoid the discussion of price, but in the case of these tubes (and the mullards too), the difference is marginal at best. If all costs were the same, my ear generally finds the 50/60s KT66 to be a slightly smoother. Then again, any perceived difference might be eliminated with the smallest adjustments of a tone knob.
Another excellent video to be sure!
Glad to hear it, thanks!
This is probably the best tube comparison vid I’ve listened too online-thanks! To my ear, the midrange tonal richness and articulation falls down in the 2016 Lion, and is excellent in the vintage GECs. There’s a discernible difference between the 2 GECs too, but both sound great, and IMHO, both stand head and shoulders above the Lion in that all-important midrange.
too->to
Thanks! Great to hear that!
My 2001 JTM45 esque amp with GEC KT66s sounds really nice
Excellent demonstration BTW.
Thanks my friend
I compared my ‘50’s, 60’s & ‘70’s GEC’s to the new Gold Lion’s in my Marshall Astoria Custom. I have around 20 sets of original ones and the new Gold Lion’s actually sound really great and have slightly more bite and clarity on the top end. I’ve owned and built Bluesbreaker combo’s/JTM45’s for the last 30 years. I’m really surprised how good these new versions of KT66’s sound! The gray insides on the originals were due to a graphite coating being sprayed inside to help reduce heat. From the 1st of January 1962 the bottles were clear and the plate structure improved to compensate for the heat.
The average lifespan of the GEC valve was 8,000 hours with 10,000 hours not being uncommon.
I wonder what the specs are on these new Gold Lion’s? But..., sonically they are really close. Thanks Johan for doing this. Now we need a comparison of an original EL34 to all the new versions....😁
Thanks man, interesting feedback
Good morning Johan:I did a little research..I'm in a agreement with you Mullards tubes I've seen around awhile. My father owned Auto parts stores on the east coast and sold everything from lawn mower stop stereo and t.v.s. he used to have this big gigantic tube tester case that looked like a pinball machine where people would come in and check their tubes . And he stocked them in a locked room..I was a kid that's where I got my Sylvania tubes and R.C.A Tubes for my small amps . I remember a Mulkard logo but don't remember seeing the tubes. I've always liked SYLVANIA..nobody in America makes them anymore that I know of. But your sounds we're great .!!!!cheers
Good Morning Robbie! I like Sylvania too. I recently got a 1970s pair of 6L6GC as backups for my Vibrolux. Cheers
Great. Sylvania are awesome tubes some are in my 50-2x12 combo Marshall it growls..I think it made heavier to carry..lol
That's all Jimi Hendrix used. I can tell a big difference using my 78 Les Paul Pro deluxe with stock P-90s. Awesome but loud lol
The gold lion tube had more headroom, probably because it’s newer with greater emissions strength, biasing it a little cooler probably could have gotten it to break up sooner. Other than that they sound identical, put some more hours on the gold lion and it will sound identical
VoxPathfinder15R agreed! The headroom gives it a touch less high harmonics I think. But when run in, it’ll be as nice as the older tubes.
Great vid Johan. I love the tones of KT66's in the power stage. The Golden Lion does well but the old GECs were something special ... my 1966 30 watt plexi JTM 45 has an original 1960's GEC and a pre 1976 replacement Pinnacle (GEC copy) in the power stage and they really sound awesome.
Thanks Chris!
Very relivant to my interests, thanks for doing that his one, Johan! The Gold Lions have been at the top of my list to replace the JJs in my Vintage/Modern. Sounds like they'll be a good choice.
Glad to hear it!
Ha love the interuption! For modern Tubes I really like the Genelax Gold lions. Highly recommended if you don't shop around for NOS. Really want some NOS mullard and genelax but the prices are scary. Great Vid as always Johan
Thanks Jared!
Another great video!
Thanks Johnny
I loved GEC tube 1, it was fullest with a lot of harmonic content. Tube 2 was pretty dark but it had a cool sound.
They all sound good... Old tube #2 seemed to break up earlier at the treble side. Dare I say that the old tubes sound a bit older?
As ever we all love your cheeky sg chords, they all sound great when you're driving.
Thanks man! Glad to hear it! :-)
GEC = better. But the cost to benefit ratio is however too small unless you have a big wallet. In that case you could get any tone you want. But the majority of tone however often comes from the acoustics of the room one records in. This is quite convincingly and brilliantly displayed by Johan's warehouse and stairs recording.
Thx Johan, cheers !!!
Cheers Gustavo!
Both lovely sounding tubes. Thought the newer one had a touch more clarity but was a very close run thing.
Great! I have the Gold Lions in my Kendrick. Love 'em. Here the vintage tubes sound just a touch better - richer, more complex. The difference is subtle but unmistakable. The question is whether anyone but but the player could tell the difference, especially in a live environment or in a mix. Also, once we add to the signal chain, how audible is that ~1% "improvement" going to be?
For the difference in price, I'll take the Gold Lions. Of course, I wish I'd had the foresight to stash away a bunch of the originals in the 70s!
Keep at it Johan. This is fabulous work you're doing.
Glad to hear it! It will be my pleasure!
I did not know that was a pure tone amp! They all sound great the gold lion just sounds new to me
To my ears I like both. Gold Lions sing and the GEC's are warm. That amp is amazing.
Thanks, yeah Pure Tone Amps are killer amps!
Clear decision in my ears for the 'Gold Lion'. These tubes are well worth their price.
On my cellphone the difference is on the creamier midrange of original GEC..The reissue is nice. No doubt about it.
Missing the live play and chat due to watching that famous cycling race around France that is currently happening. I liked the sound of the Gold Lion KT66 e for some reason
Cheers Marc
I love the "looser" feel of the GEC, but the Gold Lion sounds great too, it's tighter.
Most of the difference seems to be in the low frequencies.
In this video the old ones sound better, they are warmer and more articulate. I have to say that my Jtm45 that is equipped with the Gold Lions started to sound as good after proper breakin, and, at least in my amp, the bias drifted quite a bit after a while, and I had to readjust it. Anyway, for a modern production tube they rock! As usual Johan, this is another great video!
Thanks Andrea!
It also might be the speakers breaking in.
Good demo. Have had some troubles with the JTM45 Mick Grabham built for me. I think the old GEC's may have some weird problem with one or both of them, so may be looking for a modern equivalent. Gold Lions are pretty close but a little more clear and harsh a bit. I have a Valve Art KT66 set so this weekend am swapping them around to see if the power tubes might be having a problem. The amp is fantastic and going to do a new video with the Santucci replica and Vintage NOS wire PAF replicas. Amp has been at the tech for 7 months and have forgotten how incredible it is....Thanks for the great demo.
Dang dude it's hard to tell which one sounds better. But if I had to choose which tubes I would run my amp with on stage I would choose the 2016 Gold Lion.
They’re certainly good enough
@@JohanSegeborn The only thing I noticed was that the gold lion sounded a little "crisper and cleaner" in the distortion part, and I preferred them. Tonally they seemed identical to me. As always, you bring such informative content
The Gold Lion sounds much cleaner and crisper to my ears, but that GEC (tube 2) had a cool chime to it! It seems like it's hard to go wrong with the Gold Lions though. Thanks for such a great video comparison!
wow..... Interesting video again Johan..... Genalex make amazing tubes these days and of course old stock sound a bit different though.... their 6V6, ECC83 and KT66, GZ34 are amazing. No advertisement purposes here.
Thanks, glad to hear that!
I liked the GEC Tube 2 the best, followed by the Gold Lion and finally the first GEC. They all sound pretty good thought.
Åmål blues fest on Friday! A great Canadian blues guitarist is playing, JWJones, I hope you can go see him!
As for KT66s..I’m embarrassed to say I once had a stash of over a dozen of these, but I was into hifi and my hifi amps used EL34s, so I sold all my KT66s in the 1990s! I should’ve kept a few... but when there are bills to pay you tend to get practical about these things... The modern repro sounds fine in this amp to me. Cheers and keep on enjoying getting out with the kids on long summer days.
Cheers! Have a great festival on Friday!
The gold lion is just a little more balanced than the others. Just a matter of preference as to which one to go with. Though, a lot of times unbalance is desirable. I personally would be happy with any of them.
GEC tube two is perhaps the best compromise in the group, I like the lion on bridge pickup but it becomes too dark on neck. I personally would take the lion because of how I play but I could see other people taking the GEC tube two.
I noticed a slight amount more roundness/smoothness to the vintage. The G&C's are a fortune now. I'll be going with Gold Lion in my future JTM builds.
I'd go for the 2016 Gold Lion. It sounds great, and NOS tubes are expensive. It sounds slightly cleaner and tighter, but barely different, and recorded, at least, it doesn't sound like the GECs are more complex in the mids or anything like that.
The only difference is Johan's variation in playing and the plate resistances thus affecting the gain structure of each valve
We use multiple riffs to compensate for the influence of playing. I think the differences between the tubes were basically the same in the several riffs that was played here. And the tubes themselves can of course be broken down into parameters. Cheers
Tube 2 for me but they all sound similar
The pure toner AMP IS FANTASTIQUE... FOR THE KT 66's IT'S ALL ABOUT DÉFINITION ,AIR ETC..😎🇬🇷🎸🎼👍👌✌
Thanks Staf, Yeah they are indeed. And they have a very distinct personality of their own for sure. Cheers
I hear no substantial differences. There WAS something I liked more about GEC tube 1 but it was pretty subtle. I don't know the difference in prices but if it's hundreds of dollars, I'd say the new stuff is just as good.
Agreed, I may have saved a lot of money on my next build becaue of Johan
The transient response is the main difference I hear. It makes the vintage ones smoother and the new one edgier/punchier.
Great video Johan! I prefer Tube #2. Idea for one of your videos: Why can't modern production tubes sound better than the old ones? :)
Thanks man, glad to hear it
The New Gold Lion KT66 actually sounds pretty good, especially on some of higher-fretted chord work. There might have been some subtle differences between it and the other two, but I couldn't really articulate what they are.
I thought they both sounded nice and the vintage ones had more of the Marshall (vintage marshall) type highs. Im really looking forward to putting some kt77's in my Marshall DSL100HR next time i changed the tubes. Sadly its in the shop having an issue fixed with the effects loop/switching that all the early units had.
Cheers
If I blew up a vintage tube I’d be happy with the Gold Lion. Very little difference between them. But if I had to pick a favorite it’d be the GEC Tube 2. Just a little warmer. And it has the best looking logo.
That’s how close I hear them, the logo is the main decider.
The older ones are certainly warmer with darker lows and mids ... as expected the new tube is much brighter with a little more bite that might disappear quickly with the burn time you could put in Johan
*GEC* gets my vote
NOS are now over $200/tube, for a difference in eq curve I barely even notice in the demo.
The tube 2 GEC had a more enveloping/ bigger 3D sound hard to describe but I felt it ....and airy. Then the other GEC had a lil more highs than both of them and the Gold Lion was a lil more mellow without as much top end harmonics and was cleaner. I like tube 2 GEC then the other GEC then the Gold Lion but if I wasn't listening so close I might not be able to tell.
The one with the oval Gold Label sounded darker and almost a little bit muddy, the other gec and the Gold Lion sound almost identical and they both have more note separation and more clarity then that other tube
New valve production is needed, Gold lion sound great to me, what about high quality pre amp valves like 12ax7. Great vid , thanks Johan
I have a Genelex gold lion 12 ax7 in my Bugera v5. Got it from Upscale Audio. It's great. I think it's from the Russian factory. I overdrive it a little with the gain control and add a touch of the amp's reverb. Great sound for blues riffing. Good presence and low note articulation.
Hey Johan nice video. Could you please do a video comparing how different pre-amp tubes (with different gain factors), affect the sound of an amp for gain and headroom? For example comparing 12AX7 vs 12AT7 vs 12AY7 vs 5751, this last one used by Stevie Ray Vaughan techs to increase clean headroom. In my opinion changing pre-amp tubes have more impact in changing sound than power tubes.
THE GECs will last for a minimum of 10000 hours in a well adjusted amp. For most of us players playing for a few hours on a weekend, that is 50 years + of great tone. Insane....
But the preamp tubes is where it's really at
The Gold Lion might be a little bit darker. The difference is miniscule though.
I hear more complexity and overall smoother graininess with the GEC tubes
GEC sound is definetely much deeper, fuller, richer. I love these tubes and I use them in my amp.
Great video, but I would've liked to have heard these tubes overdriven, to get an idea of what they would sound like, in a heavy blues or heavy rock, or metal type playing application. Thanks.
When these comparison videos come up, I try to just listen and not watch which tube is which. I couldn't notice a significant auditory difference in any clip. Some clips were brighter/more crisp than others, which I assume is the newer tube. Those minute tonal differences could be made virtually non-existent with EQ.
Yeah the new ones do a great job
Lord Quilton did you hear a world of difference in those clips?
Check on the TAD KT66 I use them in my Fargen retro classic amazing balance
I percieved more complexity in the bass and lower mids in the old tubes. Perhaps a little more immediacy in the top end in the new one. The Johan was perfect.
Cheers ;-)
Did the output transformer have 20% screen grid taps ( ultra linear ) ? KT series tetrodes sound SO much better if they are used in this configuration
I'm looking to buy a quad of these Gold Lion for a stereo audio amp.... Wound up here and really surprised at some of the responses. I thought the best of the Vintage GEC was the more complex and best tone without a doubt. Sounded bigger, larger, more swirl and harmonic content. The vintage tubes were more 3D...more dimensional. Gold Lion sounded a bit more flat. I was left a bit bummed at just how different they were. Honestly, this is somewhat of the difference between the best of NOS vs new production. Not that the Gold Lion were bad per say...but the difference was there.
I "preferred" the second vintage GEC. But the price difference is not worth the tonal difference. The new Gold Lions sounded damn good! To my not-very-discriminating ears, tubes *DO* make a difference, but not as much as a great axe, a great amp, good speakers in a good cab, and of course, the biggest factor in great tone is the skilled player who listens and knows how to get great sound out of them.
Dude! You *are* that player.
Thanks man, that’s kind of you!
Hi. After two years I don’t know if you will remember but, os that gold lion brand new? Very few hours on it? Sounds cleaner than the old, the top end is sweeter, bottom end tighter and I like the mod range a little more. The old ones sound more complex on the harmonic content wish I like a lot and kind of more extended towards the bass and treble. The overall tone is very close and I like them both. Wonder how will be the comparison if the gold lion was fully burned in, because my guess is that it’s not.
Of course, the tubes can be compared, but the biggest difference comes from the power output. Without feedback, the A-Class gives a completely different sound.
I hear just a bit more body in the GEC's and the GEC's breakup may be somewhat more smoother and complex. Not by an earthshaking amount though. I'd be happy with the Gold Lions. The GEC's sound just a bit more rich, smooth and complex. Good comparison.
Very little noticeable difference! All sound great on that amp!
Hi, Johan!
I am never coming at time.:;( For me Gold Lion was the best one, but with the reverb my phone's speaker said: "Its the same one". GEC is good just like Gold Lion, but NOT tube 2! All right, thank you for the video! C.U.
Zigfrid
And SORRY, BUT who was the young man, who came during the description? Mr. Segeborn Jr!?:-)
Hi Zigfrid! That’s my Nephew :-) C. U. man!
@@JohanSegeborn WOW!!
I liked the GEC (tube 2). It sounded a bit more open than the others. I wonder how the gold Lion will change over sixty years.
Nice Gibson bass
Hi Johan another great video, as usual. That nephew of yours is cute and unexpected. As for the valves I confess my ignorance and lack of hearing, they sound the same to my deaf ears. However there's one thing that capture my attention, what is the reverb you are using? Cheers.
Thanks Jorge! :-) that’s the revelation reverb in Cubase
@@JohanSegeborn Ok Johan. Thanks.
There is some difference, but it can be negated with some EQ. The new one sounds a bit brighter. The old one is darker, warmer. What's the amp, didn't catch that part.
It’s a Pure Tone Amps Little Star! Cheers
Hey Johan have you ever played the Blues King? I've been trying to find how it sounds compared to some of the classic supro amps like the 1624 but can't find anything
Haven’t played that one yet actually
@@JohanSegeborn darn 1 more question have you ever compared the Marshall 18 watt with a 6g3 deluxe I keep hearing that they're comparable but I've never seen an actual comparison
As mentioned before, GEC tube 2 is the best of all. Gold Lion always sounds weak (less soundstage) and fizzier in the mid highs. However, if someone will be playing crunch stuff the most of the time it's almost unnoticeable. I think we're splitting hairs anyway. For the price, the EH tubes are a no brainer.
Time to do another video on pre-amp tubes where three cheap tubes, such as JJs, are in positions 2, 3, 4 and a quality tube is in position 1. (I use Watford Valves' Harma Retro Cryogenic in position 1. It is very clean and is supposed to sound like an old Mullard.)
For getting good sound with distortion which tubes are in prioity for changing?
1 - rectifiers
2- power tubes
Or pre amp tubes?
Pre amp tubes, Power tubes, don't waste your money on rectifier tubes unless they go bad.
I agree with MrIkesimba
Johan will u do a video seeing how good you can make the dsl40cr sound? Maybe compare it to a jcm 800 or superlead? Mainly. The classic gain red channel
I’ll keep it in mind!
if the video would tell you, the bit brighter sound is comming from the old ones, i bet you would like it more
0:12 what an amazing kid lol
Hahaha! Cheers ;-)
Good job Johan. I like the 60-s tubes better nice and clean minimal distortion. I was told Germany makes the best tubes EL-34s and KT-66s Is this true???
Thanks Robbie! I’ve always thought of Mullard EL34 and GEC KT66 as the pinnacle. Maybe Telefunken is better in HiFI applications though.
I hear more breakup with the old tubes. Fatter, squishier bottom. Also much softer and thick n warm sounding. The 2 did sound different to each other but to my ear both are much preferable to the new one.
New one was much more focused.
More compressed??
I'd definitely hunt down the vintage version if I needed kt66.
Then again I have hunted down vintage GE 6550s for my Marshall (still have 2 more backups )( will never deviate from those ) so I tend to just like vintage tubes more in my Marshall.
For my JTM 30 it's kt77s
Tube 1 GEC sounded slightly brighter and more articulate. All very close to my ear though.
There's really not a lot between them in this one for me. If anything in some examples the new tube actually seemed to have a touch more clarity and headroom or at least a little more response in the higher frequencies.
Are the tubes biased to the same plate dissipation? Older sounds darker to me but old no 2 is close to new one.
Yes they are
I think preamp tubes have a greater influence on tone. That's where I put the extra $.
to me, the GEC's sound more 'even' in their beginning stages of breakup. they sound a touch more compressed and like they're just crying out to be pushed harder. the Gold Lion's sound a touch more open, 'bigger' and slightly more dynamic, like they'd be better for cleaner stuff. i personally like the feel of increased dynamics with the big, bold, open sound. so my leaning would be towards the Gold Lions, at least for these cleaner examples. that said, i really feel like those GEC's bloom when pushed harder.
Dear Johan thank you for your nice videos...
I have one fender super reveb silverface ab763 1969 model...i only use vibrato channel , the clean sound of it is nice and awesome but when i use big muff or fuzz pedals the sound is not good and its harsh...what kind of power and pre amp tubes do you suggest for getting smooth sound when i use big muff snd fuzz ?
Consider that My amp is totally restored and i change all the caps with new one but the tubes are old and russian and i didnt change them...
Do you thing any modification will help or not?
I will apprecite you if you help me...
It already has one 5u4 sylvania green rectifier...its need to change with gz34 for better distortion and fuzz sound or not?
Maybe that type of amp just does not suit it!
Keep the bright switch off for sure...!
Thanks man, glad to hear it! What speakers do you have in it?
Original fender speakers 4×10
I thought I preferred one then I thought I preferred the other... Then I listened blindly and half the time I couldn't even tell where the transitions were. Both sound good, differences seem rather negligible to me.
pretty damn close. They both have their areas of expertise. I'd get the gold lion because its more replaceable
I have terrible ears but I thought the GEC 2 tube sounded more to my liking than the other two. If it was a blind test I’d probably mix them up though...
First GEC was a bit wooly, the Lion was crisp, the second GEC was warm. All relatively speaking, of course.
Have any of you KT66 fans had a chance to compare Tung Sol KT66's with others? I ask because of the lower filament current spec (900ma). I love KT66's but I've got a couple amps that may not have sufficient current capacity for other KT66's.
The Gold Lion is more lively sounding each time.
The highs in the gec are far more pleasing. However who's to say the gold lions won't sound better after 60 years? And how do we know what the gec sounded like when new? I imagine a lot different!
00:09 that was funny!
:-)