Steel vs. Aluminum Frames
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ม.ค. 2017
- Is steel real? Are aluminum frames stiff? Are steel frames comfortable?
Here's the truth about frame materials and what actually matters in frame building.
Sources:
Sheldon Brown-Frame Materials: www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-mat...
Ibis Cycles-Metallurgy for Cyclists:
www.ibiscycles.com/support/tec...
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magnesium, because you always move faster when you're on fire.
actully magnesium was a thing in the early 90s for frames^^
when you actually "lol" from a comment. thank you
actually theres an Israeli bike shop that makes magnesium track bikes. theyre pretty good bikes and theyre super light and flexible
DeadViper that’s not a good thing
DeadViper im pretty sure no one wants a flexible bike out on the velodrome
Speaking of triangles one of the best things I've ever learned about frames and bike parts is this: Affordable Lightweight Durable, You can only pick two.
Slidewinder GT pretty true if your spending under 600-500 i got a used pure fix for 180$ it definitely affordable and durable but not light
That's right a lightweight and durable steel frame it is not precisely affordable
@@tarzan6405 yeah my dad passed down his pure fix and it’s quite heavy but durable. The brand has been around since early mid 2000’s
Alloy cost more than steel lol
4 party Alloy (hmm yeah it becomes titanium) Ye it just survived 10,000 ft fall so never tell alloy weak , they have a power to become titanium
For me i think it's aluminum because i bought an aluminum frame already 🤣😂✌🚴♀️🚲
I dont have a road bike but I think I prefer steel with cataphoresis process.
I feel that xD
I live in a tropical country that is always raining. My 6061 aluminium mountain bike frame is good for these wet weather conditions because it doesn’t rust. I can also wash off the mud frequently when needed.
I replaced my seatpost and handlebar with carbon fiber materials. I also replaced my stock coil forks with an air fork.
The carbon fiber parts, aluminum frame, and air fork combination absorbs road vibrations really well. The ride is now lighter and comfortable than ever. The combination of different materials can make your bike comfortable and responsive
glad you mentioned work hardening of aluminum. I've broken 3 frames by fatigue. 1 was a steel frame (fiori road frame), the down tube snapped about 2" above the BB shell. The other 2 frames were aluminum (Trek and Specialized) and they both broke at the seat tube a few inches from the BB shell. One important consideration is for rainy/snow riders, forget the steel stuff, aluminum is the only way to go unless you want to rust out the frame and have fun with bolts and parts siezed in the frame. The 6 or 7 year old trek broke just a few weeks ago when i was riding beside someone walking. We just had a good storm and i was pushing through 6-8" of plowed and stiff snow, i bogged down and gave the crank a good push and pow, I heard something snap.
I broke 2 Rocky Mountain hybrid performance frames, RC50 2016 edition broke next to the gear set in the back. They replaced for free with 2017 edition, but that one broke in less then a year next the seat post. I am done with aluminum bikes forever and now ride a steel fixed ride and i will never go back to aluminum.
@@TheBalls2thewalls steel is real
You can ride steel in rain or snow just clean it off or spray it down after your ride steel will last lifetimes if you take care. Aluminum frames all way give out no matter if it snaps from fatigue or corrosion. They don’t last Aluminum is weak.
Wait what is a loominum
Loominum is Luminescent Aluminum or Minuim with Loo added to it.
iBecamed loo is a toilet right
Whiskey Hangover no that’s poo
I prefer steel, because, in my opinion, it absorbs bumps better, and the additional weight is a good thing. I actually use my bike as transportation, and often carry heavy loads. In my experience, the heavier the bike is, the faster it is. When my bike is loaded down with 30 lbs of groceries, it is actually faster than when empty. Acceleration is slower; however, the weight enables me to maintain my speed, with less effort.
Dat "ride more.... that will make you faster... also its free..." LMAO
Helped me to choose between alloy vs steel. I wanted to buy alloy and ready to spend some more bucks. But now i am going to buy steel one. Thank you from india.
I can see (and have experienced) the difference in ride of steel vs aluminum, but citing reliability as a reason when referring to a fixie used for urban commuting to shy away from Aluminum is silly. Compared to other genres of bikes, they live a very very easy life, and yet there is little issue with aluminum frame dirt jump, BMX, free-ride, or other bikes that get abused much more.
If your frame is breaking doing urban commuting, even from a crash, quality, not material, is to blame.
Hmm ... is riding a fixie not already silly?
@@soissesglaubsmir292 i ride fixed and i fail to see the sillyness. Takes skill, get better?
Well was really considering buying the urban track 6ku aluminum
Are you an engineer? You're making bold claims without the qualifications to back them up
There's something called material fatigue. Bicycle frames absorb impact and vibrations and have a lifespan. Steel will last for decades, specially Chromoly, a higher quality alloy compared to Hi-tens which has more carbon and rusts (aka compromises structural integrity). Aluminum on the other hand has a much shorter use life, and it doesn't show signs of wear, and rust is harder to spot. So it results in catastrophic failure specially near the fork. Aluminum and carbon are the materials that you see the most suffering catastrophic failure and accidents in trails
Chromoly is an expensive method of manufacturing steel. The reason there are so many cheap vintage frames is because the 90s was a time of booming for mountain bikes, so they made a LOT of them, and they used a high quality material to impress the customer
Yes, aluminum has a fatigue limit, one which is easily designed around. If you look at the S-N curves for various common grades of aluminum they tend to behave similar to steel until ~10^6 cycles, after which they continue to fatigue while steel hits an endurance limit (after which steel doesn't fatigue in any meaningful sense). But even at 10^8 and 10^9 cycles and beyond there is still a large amount of strength in the material.
This fatigue rate is also impacted by how far along the stress strain curve the cyclical loading occurs. If it's not a significant amount of the total strength of the part, it's not a significant fatigue event. If a frame is designed and produced right (quality) there is no reason that the fatigue limit is a meaningful factor in the frames life. Evidence of this can be seen in things like heavy duty cast aluminum parts on vehicles and similar that see a very high load cycling rate, but with peak forces well below their maximum yield strength lasting for many decades.
If we are going to argue that fatigue limits represent an inherent hit to reliability of a bicycle frame, then we should also argue that the corrosion issues of steel, particularly inside a frame also represent a risk to reliability. Clearly we should all be riding titanium frames. :D
My original comment isn't implying that aluminum is better or worse than steel, simply that it isn't by itself an indication of reliability (I personally prefer steel frames, but not because of reliability). The quality of the frameset, regardless of material will impact the reliability orders of magnitude more. Especially in a use case like a commuter, which generally sees lower peak forces than most other styles of riding.
Dont care just Love pedaling on any material. Pedaling is happiness.
How?
have you ever tested bamboo ?
That shit’s twitchy
Yup, that's why I choose steel over aluminium. Though it's heavier, it can take more beating and last longer. I'm a pretty big rider (80 kg), so my bike should be stronger too.
I have a carbon giant tcr, a Masi single speed steel, and a lynskey titanium bike. All have somewhat similar geometry, and all are on 25c tires. The lynskey is hands down the best of the three. It"feels" livelier and has a very surefooted feel to it. While I can't isolate this to the frame material, it's seems to be the likely reason since I have felt similar characteristics from a friend's moots titanium bike. If you can drop the coin, I would recommend titanium for a life long bike.
"Or ride more." Perfect!
I have always enjoyed my feta cheese frame. It's not as strong as steel or Aluminum but you can't beat the weight.
For God's sake...It's 2017 dude,time to go cheddar already
Giorgos Nitsou all about swiss and i mean swiss cheese
+George N no its not
The weight, or the taste
Swiss cheese for weight reduction, those holes also double as storage
Sheldon Brown was way off about the steel being efficient because of its springyness. Yes, the energy is stored, but it reduces the peak force that gets to the pedals, and is returned at a time when it's not helpful.
i like steel(cromo) more than aluminum becuz steel frame can use 100 year and steel frame's thin tubing is so sexy
For me personally, I use steel for street, road and cruisers.
Aluminum for mountain.
If you're stranded on an island, I would recommend using bamboo for its flex.
... and it´s escape possibilities ;)
Bamboo specced out pretty well in the life tree
I love your commentary. You really cut through the bullshit, and just share your true thoughts. In contrast, many of the popular cycling channels clearly have relationships with the companies that supply the industry. In other words, they are being paid to promote the latest trends. I really hate such channels because they are not being honest. They make you feel like your bike is total junk, if it is over a year old, like the "new" technology has left you behind.
Get a good frame and buy components... cheaper than buying with similar parts.....
I've been riding my steel GT frame for over 15 years. Still going strong
Excellent video thank you. I have 4 steel and 1 titanium bike, I briefly considered getting an Aluminum bike for next year but have now changed my mind. Another thing to mention is that aluminum frames in general have the ugliest "chewing gum"welds and steel frames have much cleaner welds
I've recently gone from an Aluminum frame to Steel. Steel is definitely more shock absorbant. it rides over bumps much more smoothly than Aluminum. Aluminum is just harsh. They can be pretty damned light but their utter stiffness without any flex does make them less comfortable. They DO transfer power a little better, that is very noticeable, but in the street steel is faster because it gives. You can put down the power more readily, uninterrupted by road irregularities. I'll say this, out of the saddle climbing, Aluminum wins. But staying seated Steel wins.
I own one chromoly bike & one aluminium bike and i totally agree with you. AluBike can propel faster but also fatigue me super quickly while ChromolyBike absorb some push but ride very smoothly for long long distance. Ofcourse i prefer chromolybike :)
James McClellan aluminum is 4X’s as lighter and stronger it doesn’t takes brains to know that.
Austin Araujo stronger? No, it might be stiff but not strong, I already cracked 2 alu frames and 3 forks over the past 6 years, my first chromo bike that I bought second hand from 1997 still kicks ass, love the aluminum but it doesn’t last as long as steel.
The fact is stiff is bad for durability, the impacts and vibrations wear the frame quicker. Aluminium is more brittle of a material than Steel too. Chromoly is by far the best material for bicycle frames and forks, imo, the most durable only second to titanium, but Ti is a whole different league since it's hella expensive
I'm an engineer and this is nothing about bikes but steel is denser and harder. It is much stronger and less likely break than aluminum. The density does make it a lil heavier. Aluminum is more ductile and has a lower yield strength. So it's not as strong but it will absorb shocks better and it will deform (dent or bend) before it just snaps.
what carbon bikes ? I just bought a beautiful carbon bike, and rides amazing, but will it brake unexpectedly ?
It's very important that aluminum is heat treated or it can crack in the heat affected zones of the welds. That is an extra step that steel frames do not need after welding not because there aren't heat affected zones in steel welds, there are, but because it is much stronger than aluminum so it is a step not needed for most steel bicycle applications. So if you buy an aluminum frame make sure it is heat treated at least.
I see this is an older video, but I'll comment. I ride both. I'm more of a steel frame guy, having ridden steel road bikes since 1974, but I was surprised when I bought a Klein. I found it to be as comfortable and lively as my Colnago, Fuso, Peugeot or Frejus steel frames! The lighter weight is also important, if you're competitive, but in that case, you'd probably go for carbon.
There's a lot of evidence that steel bikes are faster if you get one that flexes enough for your power output. Also steel is far less fatiguing and so you can ride faster for longer. The important thing is getting a thin, flexible frame. Of course thin tubing is no good for a street bike but if you want to go fast.. it has to be like that.
I know that this is 6 years ago, but trust me steel isn’t faster at all than aluminum. I’ve been riding fixed gear for at least 3 years now and when I first bought my frame, it was a steel retrospect fixie. All of my friends have an aluminum material frame. Every single time I rode with them I was the slowest and left behind. On any ground, trails, streets, etc. and I thought it was my weight, but no. Once I bought an aluminum frame, I was way faster and felt the weight difference. And yea your right, sometimes it depends if it’s flexible or suits your power but I weight 120 and I was still left behind.
@@acidgoon Try riding 50, 100km on a rough surfaced sealed road. Aluminum will kill you from vibration fatigue
@@thomassmith4999 that doesn’t prove my point though, most fixed gear are made for track or street.
@@acidgoon Yeah but a very short distance doesn't show anything other than weight. The randonneur guys are the ones to watch to see what bikes are actually efficient and fast
I have two tange steel frame bikes. One Single butted, the other double butted - 25 years old now. I commute on these bikes and ride with 38c slick tires Nimbus ex that make a very supple and fast ride.
As where I live there are sometimes on the street there are little hole or little bumps and I was wondering if I should go with a steel frame since its stronger or does it really matter.? Any suggestions.?
I cracked a double butted steel specialized frame. BUT, it was a spot with chipped paint that started to rust. Loved that frame and lesson learned. gotta keep rust off the steel frame.
hi zach is it okay if my fixie has a different frame??
Thank you for your video it was really helpful, i have a steel frame for more than 17 years and i was worried about fatigue, everything else is new , so thanks a lot ,.... You really helped
Great informative video. I like the steel. I just don't know how it handles in all weather conditions because there are times I have rode in the rain or snow. Bike weight is never an issue for me.
Most vehicle frames or overall chassis today are made mostly of aluminum compared to the steel of yesterday. Does that mean that our older vehicles are potentially more future proof than our newly manufactured ones.
😆 point.
I like my frames to be made of potassium, when it rains it goes boom
unrelated question... how did you manage to match road brake levers with v-brakes on the steel bike (thinking of the long/short pull problem)?
How long might an aluminium cycle frame last if l use it once a week ? Anyone ?
I'm a mechanical engineer with a masters degree and who works on orbital rockets and I like this video! You did a pretty good job of explaining the materials properties of fatigue, stress strain curves, elastic modules, corrosion, and all of that. Keep up the good work and you got a new subscriber!
Personally, I like a good lugged carbon bike for the mix of modern materials with traditional construction (from a biased Colnago C59 owner).
Yeah, same here (except the masters). I was watching this and bringing back memories of beams and material studies. At a certain point I was saying to myself, “the word he’s looking for is ‘ductile’” when he was talking about fatigue stress
And yet none of you two engineers, and the host understand how aluminum oxidation works! (real mechanical engineer here with masters degree) So aluminum oxidizes but only on the surface level, then that oxidation protects the rest of the material from further oxidation (same goes for copper alloys like brass and bronze) plus is more stronger and more resistant then normal aluminum (basically makes the frame a little stronger), unlike steel that can oxidize (rust) until in will be destroyed!!!!!
I have a 1989 12 speed steel frame Healing Skylark [sold in NZ].Took
it to be serviced and apart from new tyres the guy said it was A1.Must
admit I haven't used it much in 30 years.When I took it to another
shop,the young guy there stared at it in amazement and said in an awed
voice.."A Heeeeaaaaling"..like he'd just discoverd the Arc of the
Covenant or something.
Does anyone know of an aluminum frame that can fit 32c tires and fenders?
Steel because I can get a decently light, durable frame from the 70's-90's for £50 secondhand and build it into a singlespeed commuter that will possibly last another 30 years or more if I look after it... Also don't worry about overtightening bolts, dropping a wrench on it, using a "torque wrench", blah blah blah. I know a guy who thinks his 3 year old carbon bike is "feeling tired". HA!
Also like many people I cannot afford carbon or even nice aluminium bikes. £100 carbon bike? Stolen. £100 steel bike? Got three of em, serve me well.
That's exactly what my dad has been doing for the last 15 years, he works as a bike mechanics and has a lot of friends in that industry so every once in a while he would just arrive home with a brand sparkling new frame that was no longer needed and got gifted to him, it's his hobby and he made some good moneys with it, he once met a guy who wanted to change almost all the gear on his professional mountain bike so they chatted a bit and my dad did the work in exchange for all the old gear, and that's how i got a 300€ shifter on my mountain bike :D
Just 2 weeks ago a guy he knew gave him an almost new scott-USA alluminium bike frame for free since he didnt need that anymore and now he's about to sell the bike for 600+ euros
It's just amazing for me how people would just throw away perfectly working frames amd components and the right person can make a good amount of money with them
That's exactly the way I think also. The vintage chromoly steel frames are going to outlive 90% of carbon and aluminum frames
Hi..i just wanna ask if the custom fixie i bought is proper. It looks unique and the geometry looks like straight from Picasso. I hope youll get so see it so i can hear your feed back. But i rode it so far no problem from skidding, stopping and long rides.
If you ride over a bump with proper tire inflation on a steel frame, the bike will absorb more of the impact then AL.
What are those drop bars on the Cinelli Parallax??? I want them
I got an aluminum bike with a bit of crack on the head tube and that's it. I will never ever feel secure riding it. My steel bike is ok and like you said the ride feels smother. Can you talk about types of steel bikes next time? Chromoly vs high tensile steel among other things. Thanks.
Thanks Zach ...you just taught me about double / triple butted frames and what it means .
Ive used my 2012 specialized hardrock as full time commuter and touring bike for the last 5 years. It has an aluminum frame and has never given me any kind of issue. I love my bike and fully intend to be using the bike as a full time commuter and touring bike 30+ from now. In all honesty it is not really about the material being used, it is a whole lot more the about the level of quality control and how well it is built. As long as you stick with a very reputable company the frame material really does not matter.
Is your bike still fine?
which material could be the better one for building a ATV chassis
I'm all about steel now. I have a carbon bike and it's a great bike just definitely have to save it for the race day or a Sunday ride.
So it is now a SundayCarbon bike? :))
can you do a video on conversions?
I've commented this on a handful of videos tonight, sorry.
Recomendation for comfortable bike , long distance ?
Don't stop Zac love the Vids!!
was that a clip of the yolo bypass on the way to Davis?
Steel IS dependable if not as inspirational as carbon. I've cracked every aluminum frame I've ever owned but my aerospace engineering friend claims hydro formed aluminum is great stuff. I don't have titanium but it's supposed to be super comfortable but not as heavy as steel while Expensive due to the difficulty of working the material
Excellent video I’m looking into the Niner sir 9 2 star, I’m just getting back into mountain biking and it seems like it would be a pretty good or round bike any thoughts on this bike?
I purchased a cromoly 96 Kona Lavadome and Its Bon3r.
I really dont like how the derailleur is attached to the frame grr.
The big problem I have with aluminum bicycle frames is aluminum Resilience. Aluminum resilience is tested by applying pressure then watch it rebound. They do this over and over again. The real test of aluminum resilience is to fire baseballs at it and watch how it responds to the impacts. Aluminum baseball bats go dead and lose resilience with a few impacts. A couple of bad accidents on a bicycle with an aluminum frame and I would not ride it. I think aluminum frame bikes are resulting in accidents.
its a road bike I ride mountain how much does this change everything he just said
Do stainless steel frames have different fatigue strength?
8:42 you’re correct up until 8:55, aluminum does corrode, but what makes aluminum still more preferable is it’s corrosion acts as a protectant against the corrosion further spreading thus how aluminum doesn’t corrode to the point of needing to be replaced.Good vid though!!
Nice video man! good mix of actual information and comedy, keep it up :)
Yeah aluminum can corrode but every aluminum frame goes under a process called Anodization. This is done to create a very thin layer of aluminium oxide on top of the Aluminium underneath. This layer acts as a protection against any further oxidation unless it is not damage but still then Aluminium reacts so fast with Oxygen in the air that only the exposed surface will oxidize never the full frame.
Best material for bike riding in Chicago ?
Is 4130 steel good or bad?
Great videos. I like steel for its durability and classic style. I am a retro geek for sure. I have a carbon road bike and would never depend on it for durability.
love your vids keep them comin'.i lost you off the internet for a while,i have been subscribed for quite a while but i looked for your site 1 day and i couldnt find your page anywhere,so i am about a month behind i just found your page today.
Aluminium frames seem stiffer than steel frames because aluminium frames are designed to be stiffer to take into account the fatigue issues of aluminium, which Ti or steel don't suffer from.
A fantastic video on the attributes of the materials that bikes are made of. Good to see somebody not following the trend of carbon fiber without considering its drawbacks. That triangle analysis was spot on. One can easily see the factors that effect the ride qualities of steel, aluminum, & carbon fiber.
Great information on a subject that I wanted to know more about! Also cool scarf.
Weight of alloy fixie how many
keep up the great work. you're on the road to 10k!!
I wonder how aluminum and steel acts (flexibility) under extreme cold or hot weather?
I payed 240 dollars for my aluminuim bike. Will the frame last. I dont any trail riding or harsh tricks and jumping none of that. I just ride around town. But can it still fail?
where i am in saskatchewan canada it's minus 45 below zero right now and there are still a lot of people riding bikes out there.
Wallace Pelletier I doubt many people ride at - 45C. Pls be serious.
ultimaetsolder I've ridden at -5f
Great video! Clear explanations! Congratulations!
Such a good work, ty Zach
I do have a Classic Fixie and a freestyle BMX. I love Steel frames and I am planning to have a steel frame fat bike in the future. What do you think guys?
i love my aluminum Aventon frame . been almost 2 years now and its holding up very well.
does it make a big diffrence that aluminum is weake
Please make a video talking about clipless , price range , Pros and cons and comparison to toeclips and straps
My chromoly frame has lasted 33 years so far with no rust. I'll go with steel. I know. Totally scientific analysis.
Hi 3yesr old comment, I don't have steel bike and I plan to buy one, my question is how do you treat your steel bike that it lasted 33years without a rust??
@@raymartconcepcion8817Hi 2 year old content.😉 I think he probably didn't treat it.
good info, but your high rate of gesticulations per second make it diff to follow
My Favourite is Titanium, I have tried all the others and Titanium wins for me.
I rank them like this
1) Titanium
2) Steel
3) aluminium (although I really like some aluminium bikes)
4) cheese
5) carbon fibre
hey zach what do you think of citizenbikes (folding bikes in general) I'm gonna start commuting to school this year and am wondering if the bikes from these sites are good or even worth it. will probably get the gotham 24 7
Is a steel frame as comfy as a carbon endurance typed frame ? :D
How about heated 7005 aluminum alloy frame?
I'm really confused about buying my first bike because of these pop up ads and info about how good alloy is And about how bad is steel yet I'm not convinced. thank goodness After I watched your video I finally convinced of getting my steel bike.
this was a great vid. I've had an aluminum frame for 10 years but you got me leaning towards steel for my next bike
alluminium when oxydizes usually creates an alluminium oxyde layer that prevents the oxydation of alluminium bellow it, at least that's how i learnt in school.
on the other side, iron when it rusts starts flacking and oxygen gets to the lower iron spreading the iron oxyde further.
so i think alluminium should not corrode when compared to steel/iron (remember people use alluminium on windows, that are exposed to humidity alot more than a bike)
This is perhaps the best video of the subject. Thanks.
Your channel's so informative!
Also what kind of out to is that? I never seen anything like it on TH-cam!
make a video about the performace difference of different tyres and wheels like 40mm,70mm and 90mm wheels. trispokes, and 5 spokes
Thank you. You just saved me from this desire to get a more expensive bike. I love how you base your advice on being practical.
I needed this video - thank you so much 🙏🙏🙏
In the end, "Feels" is the most important factor how its gonna perform, as long as bike is right for you, its gonna be fast bike for you, that's all
I feel confident in Steel than Carbon, I actually like Aluminum because its so light but I trust Steel the most
I’ve owned two Al bikes and one Steel. The steel bikes lasted 25 years with 3 rebuilds. One Al bike lasted 30 min before breaking. One lasted 5 years. I never like the ride quality of Al. So I only buy steel bikes.
4:33 is that the Davis causeway?
How about making bike frames out of 7075 aluminum alloy rods instead of tubes? I watched a video of 7075 aluminum allow rods taking more abuse than steel under a jeep. Also, 7075 is almost 2/3rds the strength of titanium, but cheaper.
opinions please: I have an old aluminum hard rock frame that was my first adult bike. I have so many good memories and don't really want to part with it. I thought it would be fun to turn it into a tracklocross bike using an ENO hub. However, I have completely fallen in love with steel. How is it going to feel going back to an aluminum frame after riding fixed on vintage chromoly steel for three years? should I find the hard rock a new home or convert it?
convert it because i guess you can still find it a new home if you really hate it but i doubt you will dislike a bike you love. and if it really is too stiff for you just get wider tires and dont run them at such a high PSI :) and you will have a second bike incase one brakes or u have a friend over