Steel Bikes Explained | Sponsored by Wabi Cycles
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มี.ค. 2020
- For lightweight, top-tier steel bikes, check out Wabi Cycles:
wabicycles.com/
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Steel bikes are famous for their bombproof durability, classic looks, and buttery smooth and lively ride qualities. Steel is thousands of years old, is the first material that bikes were built out of, and it continues to improve with new innovations. In this video, I explain what exactly gives steel tubings these qualities and how frame designers and builders work with steel to create bikes that we love to ride. We talk about 1) steel's composition, 2) how steel is treated for lighter weight and increased durability, 3) how the profile and butting of steel changes a frameset's ride quality, and 4) a steel tubing tier list to identify different qualities of steel.
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#steelisreal #fixedgear
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In welding school at Sierra College Rocklin, and this video was very interesting and built on my knowledge of metallurgy. Thank you Zach.
Finally a good description of the differences between steel frames. A big beginner mistake I see people often making when first purchasing a bike is treating all steel as equal.
Wowwww. This channel is leveling up. Getting technical
Dude that was so informative. Thanks Zach.
Epic video!
I'm an engineer & still learned something :D
Can't wait for the next one
Almost through building my frame from Spirit tubing. Good discussion. Thanks
Love my Reynolds 631 IRO Mark V! Very light for a steel bike and comfortable as can be.
Love your video, educational and easy to understand. Wish you did more video on your trip in Asia. Update on the community you interact with and stuff... how the Fixed community is dealing with the pandemic or the trend difference for their bikes and gears. Keep up the good work!
Great video and super easy to understand, thanks for the breakdown! id love to see more types of these videos!
really liked this video, if you can do more of these type I'd be happy
Really interesting, and such a knowledgeable young man.
nice dude! dropped a lot of knowledge in a short amount of time.
Great video! Very informative
I am a commuter and I ride in cold as well as hot weather and I like good spring suspended seats and solid as a rock steel frames that are extremely tuff and trustworthy.
Thanks, nice breakdown.
Thanks for this mate
Great and informative - Zack!! :-)
Great video Zach
This kid is really smart. I like him for bikes,and Tim Mosso for watches, on Watchbox reviews.They both possess the really granular knowledge that makes real insight possible and the expository style to make it accessible. High marks.
He doesn’t need your marks though.
Steel is real great video Zach
Great video ! TY.
Great vid steel is real!!!
The video was super informative. Thank you. I believe Chrome-- with an O as in oatmeal-- moly-- like the name Molly, but it has been a while so I might be out of style.
A quick comment; I am not sure if I heard about this in the video, but here it is: bike frames usually don't use a single steel alloy, instead the manufacturer will mix different tubes to reach a price point; i.e. Reynolds 725 main triangle and geneeric 4130 seat and chain stays. PS: now that you are in Taiwan, perhaps you have some Tange tubing bikes on hand so you can give some insight about it?
Great video thank you! Btw what duals on the vid most of the time? Looks vintage but it’s definitely something modern
Great video, and I know this was 4y ago, but I've only just seen it and have some quibbles. In theory Reynolds 725, being stronger, means you can use thinner walls. But actually Reynolds will sell you the exact same tubes as 525 (without the heat treatment). The truth is regular chromoly is strong enough anyway to make into a .7/.5/.7 tube. The situation with 631 and its heat-treated counterpart 853 is similar, but they do have an additional range called "853 Pro-Team" which does have thinner walls than are available in 631. The other aspect is whether tubes are "drawn over mandrel" or "DOM" (originally made out of rolled up and welded sheet metal, before being drawn thinner and butted) or "cold drawn seamless" aka CDS (made out of a solid piece in several operations, and never had a weld). Columbus Cromor is DOM. Zona is CDS. I don't think Zona is heat-treated. 525 may be DOM but 725 is guaranteed to be CDS. Everything else from Columbus, even stainless XCr is CDS. The Reynolds stainless tubes are DOM again. Those stainless alloys are so ridiculously strong it's difficult to make them CDS. CDS is a bit stronger than DOM, but it still doesn't really matter-- you can get 525 in the same thin walls. Columbus differentiate their products more by only supplying Cromor with slightly thicker walls. Until you get to the stainless tubes there really isn't a great deal to choose between them. Any double butted chromoly, or anything from Columbus or Reynolds, can all be used to make a dope bike frame. They are all a step up from plain-gauge tubes or "high-tensile" steel. One more quibble. That seat tube you showed that was thin at the top is designed to be brazed into a seat lug. STs for TIG are usually "externally butted" (get a bit fatter on both the ID and the OD) because you do want a bit of extra thickness there to weld to. Despite my various objections this is still one of the best videos I've seen on the subject so keep up the good work :) I am a hobbyist framebuilder so am a bit obsessed (I usually use 631).
incredible amount of info here... obviously too much to cover but nice broad strokes.... I'm interested in more info on surly and all city
Where does Reynolds 531 fall into the steel category as far as strength and characteristics?
It's similar strength to chromoly (a little bit lower but not much) but the main difference is you can't weld it (the heat weakens it). So it's fine for a lugged or fillet brazed frame. But no TIG. Reynolds 753 was heat-treated 531.
Any info on kaisei 022 used on the bareknuckle?
Thoughts on velocidad? (E.g crankset and wheelset)
Tange prestige is what I ride rn, super light and fun
Anddddd now I want a wabi
what to you think of the colossi mondial track frameset ?
That was great! Wish Wabi made some geared gravel bikes now.
I ride a Fuji Connoisseur which is a Reynolds 725 frame.
I have a early 70’s Nishiki frame that says Special 150 Tubing. Anyone know what that is? The internet doesn’t...
What would you say is a good beginner bike easily available in the uk for £400-£500?
Gosh this is a wonderful video really clears a lot for my understandings of steel, but i can’t seem to understand this, is 1020 carbon steel the same as hi tensile and should I avoid it?
I built race car chassis for 26 years and this is my understanding of different steels. AISI 1020 steel is a low carbon designation. The first two digits “10” are the type of steel, in this case low alloy iron. The second two digits “20” are the point percentage of carbon in the steel. In this case .20 percent carbon. Carbon adds toughness and strength which means that you can build a lighter frame with the same strength as a low carbon counterpart. 4130 is a mid carbon range steel and is popular for aircraft and drag race cars. The difference in strength between it and 1020 is about 30 percent stronger in favor of 4130.
4130 is an SAE code number, it is not the propportion of the alloys. the 41xx codes go from 4118 to 4160.
Vs. Titanium?
Other than cost, how would a steel frame compare to a Ti frame? Which steel is most like Ti in terms of weight/compliance/ride quality etc.?
Reynolds 853 or if you have the $$$ Reynolds 953 ( stainless steel) In my opinion Reynolds makes the finest tubing for bicycle use... They have even started manufacturing tubing for motorcycle frames again.. The famous Norton feather bed frame was made from a Reynolds 531 material..
Tange tubing is my favourite,bit I'll be happy to ride bikes with any other branded tubing(on bikes with cheap and unbranded tubing,anyone would feel some form of inferiority).Also,I have just noticed the TRP RRL brake levers with gum hoods.Noice!
Soma bikes. Mostly Tange.
@@thomasmuller986 Yeah.Given the chance,I would have purchased the Soma Wolverine.With those sliding dropouts weird gear setups can be achieved,not to mention the somewhat generous tyre clearances.
@@reapanomin899 just bought the black v3 frameset and lugged fork from sale. If you dont need that belt drive, the soma double cross is even lighter, but same geo. I also have a 1982 Koga miyata (tange)
@BeboSaab I might actually consider doing a test to confirm that statement of yours,now that you actually said it.
@BeboSaab Sure,having a bottom that is able to feel the qualities of a certain tubing is dumb,but anyway,what frames are you comparing when you had mentioned in your first comment?And how long have you ridden them each?
The same type of video for aluminium frames pls
Love this video!
Wonder if you could share tips how I can fix my brakes. When I pull on the brakes, it feels mushy and the bike takes a long time to slow down. Any tips?
Thanks in advance
This could be your brake cables. They can stretch and become more ineffective over time. If they're a year or two old it might be time for a change. The obvious answer would also be to check your brake pads haven't worn down. These will also wear down and need changing over time.
You might want to check out the Park Tool TH-cam channel. They have a ton of great repair vids. If you prefer text, try Sheldon Brown’s web site.
take it to your local bike shop
Thanks all for tips. I managed to get them tighter.
Still kind of squishy though.
cometo2004 What style and brand of brakes are they? I'm not assuming yours are cheap, but Some of the brakes that come on budget bikes are an afterthought and are specced with the lowest possible cost in mind to meet a price point. BRAKES!! Believe it or not!
I wrench in a shop. Ive seen even brand new mid level bikes with brakes so bad (discs or rim) you could keep pedaling while pulling levers hard!
Butting is not thickening the tube, it's the other way around. It thins it out, making it lighter. The middle of the tube is butted, thin, where nothing is welded to it.
Steel is real..I use high-ten steel for my bike to work..👍👍🇵🇭
Such a pitty the wabi company don't have any tall frames for taller people. No 62 or 63 available. Does anybody know whether these will be available in the future?
Atze Peng maybe just contact them-surely they could do a custom build?
@@mozzavans Sorry I just realized that wabi has a different sizing. A wabi 60 frame is like a regular 62 size. For everybody other tall boy - read this: wabicycles.com/pages/sizing
Been riding my Reynolds 853 Road bike for a while.............Rides like a Cadillac and corners like it's on rails.
Is it a real huuuuuge bulding behind Zach...? Give a link or information about thiiis, pleade
It's called Taipei 101
I seen a cheap “fixie” bike before, wasn’t even that cheap tbh, 18kg, 39.6lbs
It didn’t look heavy at all but holy shite
Thoughts on flip flop hubs?
I started with an old Csmpy Record freewheel hub and loctited the cog on. Its never come loose, but I use brakes, ride on dirt trails and rarely skid except in slow technical trails. These Campy hubs Ive owned since new in 1977. Fantastic rollers, still run nearly as fast as new with tens of thousands of miles in them!
The 1st actual fixed wheel I built used an Origin 8 hub (Velocity) It seems good for the low price, still rolls smooth after 3 years and quite a few bad muddy rides. The threading could be better, it's not difficult to cross thread if I'm careless screwing the cogs on.
I got a great deal on a used White Industries Eno hub. It works fine, the threading is better than the Velocity. I polished it to a mirror finish and put SKF angular contact bearings into it. Its pretty nice but I'm too cheap to ever pay retail for a high end hub like this. I acquired it covered in spray paint with trashed bearings from a kid who had no idea what he had. I still gave him a fair price for it. Track hubs are just too simple to be worth that kind of money. I'd probably buy a Phil Wood if cost was no object.
The hubs I would readily spend a lot of money on would be an NJS loose bearing hub such as Dura Ace, Campagnolo Record. or similar, but my dirty habits would most likely ruin them. These sort of hubs have the best rolling bearings in them!
I was given another track wheel with Velocity hub. Its ok too. With these hubs you can also put in nice bearings such as German SKF or Japanese NGK and have a pretty good hub.
My friend has a set of Paul Componrnts track hubs that seem really nice He's had them quite awhile and he's a hardcore rider.
Shame you don't mention high-end martensitic stainless tubes like the Reynolds 9 series, KVA M series, or Columbus XCr
I'm curious, in your opinion, would a complete noob be able to tell difference in ride quality between the different steel types? My experience with different bikes has been very limited, so it's hard to tell what I'm missing out on.
It's Chrome Molly !!
Oof I fucked up and bought the Crew Co City bike which is high ten. I don't want to go through the trouble of returning it so I'm just going to upgrade as needed until I could build my credit because at the moment it's just out of my current income to afford chromoly. Kind of sucks.
Any thoughts on a Wabi factory tour being that coincidentally convenient truth that your currently on the same island?
yes, great idea - would love to see that.
Are raleigh bikes low quality?
The cheap ones are cheap, but the Raleigh Tamland line is air-hardened 631 steel.
Raliegh certainly went down in quality over the years since the 90s.
I owned several old Ralieghs from the '70s when they were still made in the UK. My.1st really nice road bike was a '77 Professional. I rode the hell out of that bike! These old bikes were hand made!
Today Raliegh is owned by an Asian company that owns several other brands which all used to be much higher quality in their original native countries. There's one reason bikes are produced in China, labor is cheap, maximum profit for manufacturers. Quality may be good or bad, it's a big gamble. I'm now skeptical of anything made in China. I will do my best to boycott them for obvious reasons. We ALL should.
Personally I would look for an old used UK made Raliegh. Particularly the Carlton Ralieghs! A nice old road or touring bike with horizontal drop outs would make a smooth riding fixed gear. The kind of bike you're comfortable riding all day!
If you research and learn what to look for you can get great deals on very nice old bikes, but it takes patience.
Honestly, to get the most for your money you gotta research and even study customer satisfaction, customer service and lots of consumer reviews. Its hard to trust marketing claims and big corporations!
I have an old Raliegh roadie and a Miyata 'cross bike set up fixed. I love them. Old steel Japanese bikes are really nice too! There's lots of real nice steel bikes from all over made in the '70s-'80s. Once the mtb boom hit in early '90s the bicycle industry changed for the worst and became much more corporate, production moved to Asia and quality definately went down. Now nearly everything is made in Asia! Ive been riding hard and wrenching on bikes for 50 years, I wrench in a shop in my retirement. I see way more issues with bikes than I ever did 30 years ago and Ive always been around the bike community.
If you want an affordable good steel new bike get a Surly or a Soma. I know for fact Soma is a pretty good brand from Taiwan. Really nice frames for not much money!
Great video but Reynolds 631 is not a chromoly, its what you describe as a specialty alloy. Its actually the exact same alloy as Reynolds 853 which you say is a specialty, the difference between the 2 is that 853 is heat treated and 631 is not, making 853 much stronger.
I think Reynolds is Chrome/manganese alloy. I dig Reynolds too. Ive had a few 531 bikes. I'm going to build my own frame from 853 and maybe Kaisei tubes. I built a low trail fork with Kaisei blades and it rides like a Cadillac!
953 stainless is even more exotic than Titanium!
What do u think about celt 2k17 its a steel frame and also when are you going to the philippines. I want you to roast my bike
COLUMBUS
Like Holly
I ride aluminium bike frame
Columbus Cromor is way Better then Reynolds 525, in fact its mechanical properties are comparable to Reynolds 631. Mechanical properties Reynolds 631: UTS=800 MPa, Ys=650 MPa, E %=10%. Mechanical properties Columbus Cromor: UTS=750 MPa, Ys=700 MPa, E%>12%. While UTS and Ys are more or less identical, the E% parameter of Cromor is significantly better and this means that Columbus steel absorbs vibrations much better. Therefore Columbus Cromor is also better than Reynolds 631 and its performances are close to those of Reynolds 725 (UTS=1050 MPa, Ys=800 MPa, E%=8%), in fact Cromor is also much more ductile than Reynolds 725, however it is a little less resistant (but in this case the two sets of tubes simply have different characteristics). Many people are prejudiced against Columbus Cromor just because it is a welded tube set, but seamless tubes are not necessarily better (for example, Reynolds' top-of-the-line tube set is the Reynolds 953, which is a seamed tube set). Columbus Cromor is improved with multiple cold-drawn and stress-relief processes and it's used for building at least mid-range frames (but sometimes it's used to build mid-high range Monster Cross frames)
Molybdenum 😆
I bought a cromo Marin gravel bike with a carbon fork, the thing weighs a bloody tonne. I'm looking out for Columbus Spirit for my next steel ride.
Why have fine steel, lugged frames become a fashion collectable instead of a wonderful bike and great companion? Produce them again already!
Steel hasn’t been around for thousands of years. A couple of hundred years perhaps.
Reynolds 953 is I
Best
Stainless too
Very hard to work with apparently though, so very very expensive
Unless you weight over 100kg and bomb it pretty often.
@@liamallen1043 it can be hard on your tools...but price wise..its not bad. I bought a road bike from Rourke in uk
@@trajtemberg its pretty bomb proof I hear
Trying to reconcile the marketing information with the metallurgical definitions leads to confusion of mind. If you want stronger and lighter weight the tubing manufacturers have you catered to. It's not a lie that it's stronger and lighter weight. Their definitions, though, appear to be a bit nonsensical if you look into it. The words don't always match up consistently with the materials science way of defining the concepts. It doesn't matter as long as it meets the buyers' expectations.
Strengthness to weight ratios... Lmao
Columbus or reynolds
The first bikes - if you could call them that - were made of wood. They sucked; but they were bikes, sorta.
私の先生はあなたの兄です
can buy me a dosnoventa bike please
i beg u
“Material that has been around for 1000’s of years”? Lol
Steel was known in antiquity and was produced in bloomeries and crucibles.[16][17]
The earliest known production of steel is seen in pieces of ironware excavated from an archaeological site in Anatolia (Kaman-Kalehöyük) and are nearly 4,000 years old, dating from 1800 BC.[18][19] Horace identifies steel weapons such as the falcata in the Iberian Peninsula, while Noric steel was used by the Roman military.[20]
The reputation of Seric iron of South India (wootz steel) grew considerably in the rest of the world.[17] Metal production sites in Sri Lanka employed wind furnaces driven by the monsoon winds, capable of producing high-carbon steel. Large-scale Wootz steel production in Tamilakam using crucibles and carbon sources such as the plant Avāram occurred by the sixth century BC, the pioneering precursor to modern steel production and metallurgy.[16][17]
If you like steel bikes go to walmart XD.
Hi Zach, I hope you’re eating enough. You don’t look very healthy.
He looks great not even close to being unhealthy or skinny
Bamboo has been around forever as well but that doesn't make it the ideal material choice for bicycles or jetplanes. Aluminum has progressed now to surpass steel tubing in every way and when used with carbon fiber.... there is no comparison.
I have had Columbus SLX and Reynolds 531 tubes, forks and stays on numerous bikes over the years and can assure you that the cycling world has moved on in many ways including performance, weight and cost.
Your views are dated and more dangerously sponsored.
this guy literally knows nothing about steel. but ey