I PRACTICALLY LISTEN TO JOHN LECTURES ALMOST THROUGHOUT THE DAY SINCE I HAVE A LOT OF FREE TIME IT IS A FREE UNIVERSITY WITHOUT EXAMS THANK YOU VERY MUCH MR. HAMER❓️👍👀
@@kathrine266and thankfully there are about 180 videos already! I’ve learned a lot from them. I’ve only skipped a few of the philosophy lectures and a few on modern Mormonism. I love these, and John, so much. What a treasure both are.
@@jasondonovan-oo3dx a lifetime doing in depth research into history is the exact OPPOSITE of speculation, similar go John I also have my Masters degree in History and have spent several decades studying it and I've yet to find a single incorrect statement by him let alone an intentional lie, you need an education son, good luck getting one
You’re so wonderful John! I get so much joy out of these lectures simply because I like being around you, not to mention how much you’ve taught me. Thank you for being a good person, a great lecturer, and an admirable ambassador for modern, progressive Christianity. I’m so glad to see the growth of this channel; it’s very well-deserved.
My favorite aspect of John's lectures is his avoidance of evangelizing. I had listened to maybe fifteen lectures, going back years, before I even realized John believed. I had assumed he was a responsible scholar, above believing things, but I was so warmly impressed that he believes and yet doesn't make it the point. So for me, it's not only John's breadth and depth of knowledge that impresses, but his restraint in preaching about faith. I am an atheist with Christian values, and John is the only minister I've ever trusted.
Me, too. It has helped me in discussions I have with Christians when they inevitably ask about my beliefs. The introduction of what I believe has changed from ' I don't believe in God ' to ' I know that I exist in this life, and I can influence what happens in it'. 'I don't know what happens before or after, so I focus on this lifetime. '
I would love to see a presentation that includes John Hamer, Bart Ehrman, and Andrew Henry. Love their scholarly blends of history, literary criticism, and religion.
Just came back to hear the entire show on replay because I tuned in quite late when the show was almost over a few days ago. If I lived in Canada I would be attending your church on a regular basis.
I'm an atheist and I love these video lectures and derive so much information from them, which is typically rare for me to do that from people who are non atheist scohalrs but this is brilliant.
I'm disenchanted with Alphabet, Google and TH-cam so I've been watching Centre Place lectures while signed out. Now I'm spending the afternoon logged in giving John and Centre Place their much deserved likes.
love this lecture series and this Q&A in particular. it was great to hear you answer in a more casual off the cuff manner and also learn more about your beliefs and what the community of christ church is. thanks
I grew up Quaker, and while we did have a portion of the service-about fifteen minutes I think-set aside for silent worship, for the most part, ours was like any other Christian reformed service: Any Sunday, 1986-1994 College Avenue Friends Church Oskaloosa, Iowa -Sunday school -Coffee in the narthex -Convocation (they, of course, used a non-Latin phrase for this, but I can’t remember it) -Hymn -Sermon -Hymn -Silent Worship (my fave) -Hymn -Open Worship (my least fave, cuz mom always stood up and embarrassed us with sap) -Joys and Concerns (yet another opportunity for mom to rain embarrassment down on us) -Hymn -Closing Prayer (probably cuz benediction sounded too papist for the back-in-the-day Friends) Even with Sunday school, it was a tight 2 1/2 hr gig. Pretty sweet. Plus, Monthly Meeting days were not to be missed: potluck afterwards in the basement, featuring Iola Cadwallader’s rhubarb crisp and Margaret Watson’s French silk pie. 🤤 Quakers rock! (I mean, not literally, because, ya know… but they’re still just the ginchiest!)
I just had to expound: I loved growing up in the Friends church. Ours was almost 100% a judgement free church. Our family rule was no sweatpants or holey jeans, but congregants defs rocked up in sweats Sunday AM). Just a warm, welcoming group of people, minimalistically praising the lord. Nowadays, if I ever got back into religion, (a hard sell for an atheist) I’d definitely go Catholic. Like John, I’m big into the albs and mitres and pope hats and stuff. Like, if I’m gonna go in for this stuff, I want the whole nine yards. Gimme incense and choir boys, altars dripping in gold, reliquaries and communion, rituals and rococo baby. I just wouldn’t see the point otherwise.
@@alangriffin8146LOL... You're right.. the pomp and circumstance is definitely a draw. It's the sense of community that I think really keeps people in it.
Bummed out you guys stream right around 2am in my timezone :/ Hope all the questions I would have were asked! I'll enjoy it regardless though, I'm sure of it.
I am one " Brighamite" that completely enjoys Professor John Hamer. He is always insightful , incisively and significant. I am asking that a close friend of mine to drop into the Center Place in Toronto and meet Professor Hamer. That's true, re the spiril in our " Brighamite" sect as well.
Thanks John love your work! I coincidentally had two beautiful female teenager mormons knock at the door yesterday. I said i had a bible App on my iohone read a verse each morning before riding my indian chieftain. So far it works to focus my mind. I am interested in whether religion offers a general survival fitness.
Love your routine! My first bike was a 1942 Indian Scout. I have around 1/2 million miles on 2 wheels, but finally grew too old to safely continue riding. Enjoy your experience. Religion is like any human institution. It can bring joy, but can also be misused. Unjust use of power is corrupting and a danger to joy.
I knew from the first few times I listened to you well I figured anyway that you were from the LDS tradition.. a very serious treatment of the scriptures.. The Bible
Obviously catching this live would have been the place to ask this...but I missed it =( Anyways I'll put it forth here, maybe it will be seen! Are you familiar with the channel "Esoterica" with Dr. Justin Sledge? I would absolutely *love* seeing you guys collaborate; And! **It just so happens he recently in a live Q&A nonchalantly put forward the idea that he might do a deep dive on Joseph Smith soon** I know he is most specifically fascinated with exploring divine revelation (from Joseph Smith, to John Dee and Enochian, to Descartes speaking to an angel just before his Cartesian Revolution). I can't think of a better person for him to work with on this one than you! PS: And just have to say, love the channel, been listening to a different lecture literally every night for over a month. And I especially love how this channel truly feels like a community, Peace to everyone! ❤
Forced to be a Witness, horrific for me. Escaped to go to Barnard. Elaine Pagels was one prof. Insightful. I hate Fundamentalists. It was yeshiva students talking about Jewish fundamentalism but raving about the OT cpurse gave me courage to try Elaine's courses.Changed my life
One take I heard on Polygyny was that it can lead to very large familial clans forming, which is a threat to the state, and which is why it is illegal.
I think the question of free will depends on the definition one gives to it. Imo, free will is just the ability to make choices from the options available to one in the environment one finds oneself in. In which case, the ability to make choices is a property of life / of living organisms, is dependent on consciousness and at least some level of awareness of one’s environment and exists, therefore-even if at just a very proto level-in all life forms, including one cell organisms.
So, John, why do you think the RLDS church is so far removed from the CofC? It seems to me that the RLDS has more in common with the LDS religion than it does with the CofC.
Hi,iwas just thinking about how much Jesus,after his ressurection, might have imparted teachings to his half brother James,is anything intuition,assumed ,about this occurance.Thank you.
VeryOldJohnson ---- As we mentioned in the chat yesterday, questions that people put in the livechat before the event starts are deleted by TH-cam. So I noticed that questions like yours were accumulating there and we wanted to answer them, but they were deleted by the TH-cam system before we could see them. If you tell me what your question was, I will do my best to answer it here.
@@HamerToronto : John, I really do appreciate your personal attention to my message, THANK YOU!!!! ***** My question in essence was: Was GOD on sabbatical while HIS Chosen People were being genocided during the HOLOCAUST?
@@veryoldjohnson Your question is about the Problem of Evil. Why does God allow horrific suffering? In my opinion, this is the singlemost argument against theism. There is an entire genre of theology called "theodicy" which is entirely devoted to attempting to answer this question. I'm not sure how successful most theodicies are. In a lot of cases I think that these "answers" minimize suffering and are unacceptable. In the precise formulation you have asked, God has not chosen any one people. All creation belongs to God equally; all people are of infinite worth. The idea that any one group is chosen is false tradition. That said, the genocide of any people is unacceptable, and that is true to a maximal extent for the Holocaust. I do not want to minimize suffering by giving a simple theodicy. My view is that God does not intervene capriciously for good or ill. God was not on sabbatical and is not on sabbatical. God does not ever intervene to stop suffering because that would indict God for all suffering that God does not stop. So, we have to look for more complex answers to the reality of life and suffering.
@@HamerToronto : John, thanks for the reply, such as it was. i have enjoyed you and your lectures over the past two years or so. I have gone back and listened to the ones that I missed too!!! I wish you continued success. May the FORCE be with you!!!
Who was the high priest during Jesus time.? If it was Caiaphas we can’t look on him as bad. Would not he had died if he went behind the vale if he had thoughts of killing Jesus if he wasn’t in God’s will?
Ta again. I may write another comment but just want to knock on the head any idea that mythicism is the prevailing idea amongst atheists. I can't pretend to speak for all of my fellow atheists of course, but in my personal experience it is rare for me to meet anyone who holds firmly to that view. I'd grant that there are quite a few who believe ( as i do ) that it is difficult to say with 100% certainty that any figure from antiquity existed , but they generally accept that the evidence for a historical Jesus is pretty well as good as you get outside of coinage. For a human.Having said that ,I'd expect the evidence of a god to be a lot stronger . Like,as a mininmum, maybe a few undisputable and complete contemporary manuscripts wouldn't be an unreasonable expectation. That said, enjoying this....as always with John's talks. Ps. A fact id like to know about humanity? Are we alone in the universe (not counting the other lifeforms with which we share this planet )
Professor Hamer, I respect your position, but in terms, of the Latter Day Saints restorationist movement moving from the restoration from New Testament primitivism to old testament restorationism and then to the visionary Joseph Smith concept of God is natural. The other point, I wished to make is it is only an inference that the prophet Joseph misunderstood the concept of Elohiem . As you well know and understand that most scholars opine that " Elohiem" is the chief God whom sat as the head of the council of the Gods ( capital G) as part of the pre יתןת. Who is to say, that Joseph's view of the Gods are incorrect ? And the Nicean council shepard by Constantine is incorrect? ( Just so you know the evangelical especially the pentacostal are very distasteful to me) I lean more to Judaism or Eastern Orthodox perhaps Ethiopian Coptic but never evangelical especially Pentecostalism. In terms, of the book of Mormon despite the lengthy quotation from Isaiah and the gospels there are more unique passages . For example, Lehi & Nephi visions of the tree of life is truly one of the great works of literature from that era. Kahil Gabrin, Heman Hesse, Viktor Frankel, Norman Vicent Peale , JJ Strang, even the venerable St. Augustine have not created a masterpiece like Lehi vision of the tree of life. That alone, in my mind, qualifies Joseph Smith as a " visionary man" . The uncomfortable fact , that apparently brother Joseph was partial to the feminine species certainly doesn't disqualify the prophet Joseph as an extraordinary visionary figure . By those moral standards Cicero, Alexander, Aristotle, Washington, Franklin , etc would be disqualified. ( Also most importantly Kirk and Spock). Incidentally, Joseph and Roddenberry and Lucus appear to be on the same page as the prophet Joseph. Hence, who was the greater visionary ? Campbell's & Rigdon views are antiquated in the 21st century but the visionary Joseph ideas fit more comfortable in the 21st century than in his time. I enjoy your lectures .
Outside the Midwest, and probably Pennsylvania, the only thing people know about Quakers is the oats guy. Funny, because that was just a brand name to build trust, not some Oneida stuff where the church had a factory and a town. Kinda like how Bailey’s Irish Cream was invented by an Englishman wanting to offload both cheap milk and cheap booze during a drop in the market in the ‘70s. Fast forward a few decades and they’ve moved their factory to Ireland, and that serendipitously conceived concoction is a UNESCO cultural heritage food. Heh. What a world.
Regarding the Jewish and John church issues; it must be remembered that the Jew must also apologize to the Chrisitian as the followers of Christ were also hated and even killed by the our Jewish cousins FIRST; what I am trying to say is that the Jew was at fault first for doing what Christians did much later, certainly not following the teachings of Christ. A case in point, Paul when he was part of that Jewish pharisaic sect which killed and persecuted Christians before his conversion. So, let us be balanced in our analysis and not bow down to the Jew and perceive them as guitless party in this affair! Sins of Islam Monitor @IslamSins Tweeter
1:01:00 i think it’s been overblown the difference between “Jesus” and Paul. Marks gospel was Pauline so we are getting a Jesus through the lense of Paul. Which is the foundation for the other gospels. I think the problem is people have a very tainted very of Paul. Thinking he got all his ideas from a vision which is not true bc he knew plenty about the Christ followers prior to him repenting
William Marks, Nauvoo Stake President, was on the jury that heard the evidence. He told Joseph Smith III that he knew for a fact that his dad had been involved. So the testimony of William Marks is one piece. JS III replied that if it was so, his Dad had been wrong.
"Welcome to our Inclusive Online Church, an LGBTQ+ affirming, non-dogmatic, interfaith community Beyond the Walls. Mindfulness meditation. Meditation centre." As new-age as it gets.
I love John and these lectures but the Islamic suffering under colonialism is a total myth. Every large islamic empire was itself a brutal colonizer, and most (currently fundamentalist) muslim nations were never colonised by the west. And even if they were, only very rarely was this as grim as the more classic examples of colonialism.
Re: the Spiral Logo which you explained--The design behind you in your talks has always bothered me. It's very unappealing. I had no idea that it had some meaning to your organization, but the meaning doesn't help. I strongly recommend you get a professional designer to redo your look. It seems vaguely cultish or sci-fi, and doesn't do anything for your talks.
Professor John, sometimes regrettably, the historicity issues are clearly legitimate and relevant. Also, your points regarding the underlying metaphysical, psychological, symbology, emotional and spiritual transformation of religious faith is salient. Which brings me to this inquiry of you Professor . Within, the context of the fallacy of historicity what really is the substantive distinction of the gospel of Christ , as taught by St. Paul and the prophet Joseph? In other words, in terms, of relative net value, why should St. Paul be considered greater than the prophet Joseph? In my view, Literary dependence is a cop out! I will put one inquiry to you. In the book of Mormon, Lehi vision of the Tree of Life is a tremendous contribution to religious meaning , symbolism and allegorical contribution . How could the vision of the tree of life be downgraded below St. Paul's more Roman Greco western type of reductionism ? ( Simply because one discounts the prophets Joseph insufficient historicity and the sintella of evidence of some of St. Paul's historicity ? Put aside some evidence of the prophets Joseph's unconventional sexual energy, in the manner of St. Augustine or St. Paul's suspected sexual orientation and focus on the religious , metaphysical contributions and the prophet Joseph deserves a legitimate place among the greatest contributors of world history, would you not have to agree ?
Not at all. You mentioned Joseph's or anyone else's visions? Can anyone of you tell me what your next door neighbor's dream or vision was last night? Do you even remember (in totality) what you dreamed of last night? I didn't think so. Joseph this, Mary that... Visions, dreams,Visions, dreams...
I wish I could have asked you about Jesus’ life in India before he started preaching and why you pass over Notovich’s testimony of the scriptures he recounted in Tibet. The telling of the ancient Tibetan texts from the Hemis Monastery in Lasa appears to be an accurate and objective account of Jesus’ life. Why do you discount it?
John would likely say that theory has been well refuted. Although it's questionable as to whether John would be able to cite any sources that confirm his answer.
😅John's response to "mythicism" was dismissive to the extreme. The only mention we have about a Jesus of Nazareth is the Gospels. Only Mark is original the others are copies and embellishments of Mark. Paul's Jesus is a heavenly figure who has never been on earth, but was to bring in the end time shortly.
@@janicehussock7735 True. There is no Q. Just copiers. John is a late fabrication and a response to the consistent no-show of Jesus (3:16). Just believing will get you salvation!
Love how a few goons here somehow know the unknowable about the Bible. Unlike then I studied very hard about the Bible and Jwsus at a major Ivy League university, then I did some study in seminary. I met with leading faith historians. John and the community are no copy . If I were as sketching prepared, I would not trumpets ignorance. Every person you lecture may know far more than you. They are far more sober and careful than you because they know so much more than you. I saw the most informed and influential people maintain curiosity. The more I learned the more I was aware no one can ever know it all. I also studied human psychology and neuroscience. We can never be so certain.John is no copy. The community was dist
I left the live chat because there was too much racism (hate speach against white people) that was allowed. Too bad because I wanted to engage with John in the Q&A. I know John promotes far left wing politics in his videos so I am not surprised that the chat allowed disrespectful comments to "white" people.
Really..? I didn't see any of that. And I was paying attention and noticing how polite and respectful everyone was. Maybe you just didn't like an opinion from one or more of the people in the chat? That's not the same as hate speech.
There was a "woke" person arguing against an "anti-woke" person for a while, but I didn't see anything especially offensive from either of them, and I'm pretty sure neither side intended their statements as racist or offensive.
@@FireEverLivingIt was the woke person vs the anti woke person that finally put me over. The woke person made two comments about white people. But about 20 minutes before that two other disrespectful comments were made about white people. I politely asked the chat to please keep the political arguments out of the chat and the woke vs anti woke kept going so I left.
John I love the holy Spirit of wisdom and knowledge that you possess. Thank you for your diligent work. I'm a retired building contractor and I noticed that your east west line of your background is not level. This is not meant as a criticism or to take away the importance of your q and a but unless its not a glitch in my TV have your media technology adjusted. Thanks again bob
![F.HERO Ft. JSPKK x ลำไย ไหทองคำ x M-PEE - ไม่สนิทบิดหมด (Thai Riders Anthem) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kPJZ0UihBfk/mqdefault.jpg)
I PRACTICALLY LISTEN TO JOHN LECTURES ALMOST THROUGHOUT THE DAY SINCE I HAVE A LOT OF FREE TIME IT IS A FREE UNIVERSITY WITHOUT EXAMS THANK YOU VERY MUCH MR. HAMER❓️👍👀
same here.. middle aged disabled woman who don't live near a university in Scandinavia. this is a good alternative.
@@kathrine266and thankfully there are about 180 videos already! I’ve learned a lot from them. I’ve only skipped a few of the philosophy lectures and a few on modern Mormonism. I love these, and John, so much. What a treasure both are.
@@jasondonovan-oo3dx ANNIHILATION IS TRUTHFULLY TRUTHFUL ❓️🥁👍👀
@@jasondonovan-oo3dx a lifetime doing in depth research into history is the exact OPPOSITE of speculation, similar go John I also have my Masters degree in History and have spent several decades studying it and I've yet to find a single incorrect statement by him let alone an intentional lie, you need an education son, good luck getting one
@jasondonovan-oo3dx Let you be the teacher??? It's you are or you're, not your.
This was even better than I hoped. John the vast knowledge in your noggin is always shared with clarity. Thank you so much!
You’re so wonderful John! I get so much joy out of these lectures simply because I like being around you, not to mention how much you’ve taught me.
Thank you for being a good person, a great lecturer, and an admirable ambassador for modern, progressive Christianity. I’m so glad to see the growth of this channel; it’s very well-deserved.
Thank you for sharing that!
My favorite aspect of John's lectures is his avoidance of evangelizing. I had listened to maybe fifteen lectures, going back years, before I even realized John believed. I had assumed he was a responsible scholar, above believing things, but I was so warmly impressed that he believes and yet doesn't make it the point. So for me, it's not only John's breadth and depth of knowledge that impresses, but his restraint in preaching about faith. I am an atheist with Christian values, and John is the only minister I've ever trusted.
Even as an athetist/agnostic, I find these lectures so engaging and interesting. Thanks!
Me, too. It has helped me in discussions I have with Christians when they inevitably ask about my beliefs.
The introduction of what I believe has changed from ' I don't believe in God ' to ' I know that I exist in this life, and I can influence what happens in it'. 'I don't know what happens before or after, so I focus on this lifetime. '
Diddo!
Yay! You're doing a lecture on ecclesiasties! one of my top favorite books
John, you are great! Thank you for all the time and effort you put in to help me understand things in the scriptures
John is the ultimate integrative complexity maximizer. Move on over, Bard.🎯🎯🎯
SOS = Scoot Over Some!!!
This was absolutely fantastic.. I can't believe my three questions and even one comment from the chat made it into the video. 💖🏆👏
Excellent thank you John and please do more 🙏👍😊
I would love to see a presentation that includes John Hamer, Bart Ehrman, and Andrew Henry. Love their scholarly blends of history, literary criticism, and religion.
Just came back to hear the entire show on replay because I tuned in quite late when the show was almost over a few days ago. If I lived in Canada I would be attending your church on a regular basis.
I'm an atheist and I love these video lectures and derive so much information from them, which is typically rare for me to do that from people who are non atheist scohalrs but this is brilliant.
Same in general, but I take the agnostic, humanistic approach.
I'm disenchanted with Alphabet, Google and TH-cam so I've been watching Centre Place lectures while signed out. Now I'm spending the afternoon logged in giving John and Centre Place their much deserved likes.
this guy is a Genius
This guy is an encyclopedia.
love this lecture series and this Q&A in particular. it was great to hear you answer in a more casual off the cuff manner and also learn more about your beliefs and what the community of christ church is. thanks
I grew up Quaker, and while we did have a portion of the service-about fifteen minutes I think-set aside for silent worship, for the most part, ours was like any other Christian reformed service:
Any Sunday, 1986-1994
College Avenue Friends Church
Oskaloosa, Iowa
-Sunday school
-Coffee in the narthex
-Convocation (they, of course, used a non-Latin phrase for this, but I can’t remember it)
-Hymn
-Sermon
-Hymn
-Silent Worship (my fave)
-Hymn
-Open Worship (my least fave, cuz mom always stood up and embarrassed us with sap)
-Joys and Concerns (yet another opportunity for mom to rain embarrassment down on us)
-Hymn
-Closing Prayer (probably cuz benediction sounded too papist for the back-in-the-day Friends)
Even with Sunday school, it was a tight 2 1/2 hr gig. Pretty sweet. Plus, Monthly Meeting days were not to be missed: potluck afterwards in the basement, featuring Iola Cadwallader’s rhubarb crisp and Margaret Watson’s French silk pie. 🤤
Quakers rock! (I mean, not literally, because, ya know… but they’re still just the ginchiest!)
I just had to expound: I loved growing up in the Friends church. Ours was almost 100% a judgement free church. Our family rule was no sweatpants or holey jeans, but congregants defs rocked up in sweats Sunday AM). Just a warm, welcoming group of people, minimalistically praising the lord.
Nowadays, if I ever got back into religion, (a hard sell for an atheist) I’d definitely go Catholic. Like John, I’m big into the albs and mitres and pope hats and stuff. Like, if I’m gonna go in for this stuff, I want the whole nine yards. Gimme incense and choir boys, altars dripping in gold, reliquaries and communion, rituals and rococo baby. I just wouldn’t see the point otherwise.
@@alangriffin8146LOL... You're right.. the pomp and circumstance is definitely a draw. It's the sense of community that I think really keeps people in it.
Darn, I missed the Live. I will more attention!
Bummed out you guys stream right around 2am in my timezone :/ Hope all the questions I would have were asked! I'll enjoy it regardless though, I'm sure of it.
my mormon family is intimidated by your knowledge, brilliant!
Thank you
I am one " Brighamite" that completely enjoys Professor John Hamer. He is always insightful , incisively and significant. I am asking that a close friend of mine to drop into the Center Place in Toronto and meet Professor Hamer.
That's true, re the spiril in our " Brighamite" sect as well.
Thanks John love your work! I coincidentally had two beautiful female teenager mormons knock at the door yesterday. I said i had a bible App on my iohone read a verse each morning before riding my indian chieftain. So far it works to focus my mind. I am interested in whether religion offers a general survival fitness.
Love your routine! My first bike was a 1942 Indian Scout. I have around 1/2 million miles on 2 wheels, but finally grew too old to safely continue riding. Enjoy your experience.
Religion is like any human institution. It can bring joy, but can also be misused. Unjust use of power is corrupting and a danger to joy.
Merci!
Thank you for supporting the channel!
Thanks John. You explain so clearly. Have you examined the evidence for the Shroud of Turin?
He won’t pay attention no matter how strong it is he is materialist
You are the materialist.
John doesn't need a piece of cloth to believe.
@@capnmnemo I don’t need it either but I do believe it and also many other miracles
@@catholicconvert2119 The shroud has been known to be a fake since 1390.
@@capnmnemo I believe it’s real
Dang, if all Christians were like this I might still believe in God.
I have so many questions! Arrrgh! Do another! 😂
this guy is a machine - just amazing.
He can train his JohnHamerGPT and let it speak to us in his way, answering all our questions 24/7/365.
So the Community of Christ uses the cross as a symbol as opposed to the Salt Lake City Church which does not.
Hi John. Great stuff. Have you thought about having Jason Bresheres from Archaix on you channel?
I knew from the first few times I listened to you well I figured anyway that you were from the LDS tradition.. a very serious treatment of the scriptures.. The Bible
Great session!
Obviously catching this live would have been the place to ask this...but I missed it =(
Anyways I'll put it forth here, maybe it will be seen! Are you familiar with the channel "Esoterica" with Dr. Justin Sledge? I would absolutely *love* seeing you guys collaborate;
And! **It just so happens he recently in a live Q&A nonchalantly put forward the idea that he might do a deep dive on Joseph Smith soon** I know he is most specifically fascinated with exploring divine revelation (from Joseph Smith, to John Dee and Enochian, to Descartes speaking to an angel just before his Cartesian Revolution).
I can't think of a better person for him to work with on this one than you!
PS: And just have to say, love the channel, been listening to a different lecture literally every night for over a month. And I especially love how this channel truly feels like a community, Peace to everyone!
❤
Thanks!
Thank you for supporting the channel!
Would be helpful to have a list of questions with timestamps.
That would be wonderful if someone were to add those in a comment 😄
Forced to be a Witness, horrific for me. Escaped to go to Barnard. Elaine Pagels was one prof. Insightful. I hate Fundamentalists. It was yeshiva students talking about Jewish fundamentalism but raving about the OT cpurse gave me courage to try Elaine's courses.Changed my life
Are you familiar with David Dorsey’s book The Structure of the Old Testament? If so, can you comment?
One take I heard on Polygyny was that it can lead to very large familial clans forming, which is a threat to the state, and which is why it is illegal.
Wow, wow, wow! Mr. Hamer for president! Oh wait, Canada can't have one. What a shame!
He was born in the US. John for President!
Your answer with the matrix question....was mechanical now computator issue......made me piss my pants. Thank you Frank Oz.
I would like to see more gnostic videos please.
I think the question of free will depends on the definition one gives to it. Imo, free will is just the ability to make choices from the options available to one in the environment one finds oneself in. In which case, the ability to make choices is a property of life / of living organisms, is dependent on consciousness and at least some level of awareness of one’s environment and exists, therefore-even if at just a very proto level-in all life forms, including one cell organisms.
I am fond of your work🟥🟩🟧🟦🟨🟪
Jude could be James’s
“Brother in law”
Would make sense I think
So, John, why do you think the RLDS church is so far removed from the CofC? It seems to me that the RLDS has more in common with the LDS religion than it does with the CofC.
John used "at-one-ment"! Are you and John Vervaeke buddies? Big if true!
Not familiar w/ Vervaeke...will look up. The first mention of at-one-ment I saw was in 'Behold the Spirit' by Alan Watts
@@exoplanet11 Oh, interesting! I've never explored Watts properly
How can you believe in the trinity at the same time claiming to believe in Joseph Smith, who saw TWO personages?
I would watch a 7 hour podcast of you and Bart Ehrman talking about Jesus.
When the word jewish is used it should be made clear if it's religion or ethnic people, that is being referred to
Hi,iwas just thinking about how much Jesus,after his ressurection, might have imparted teachings to his half brother James,is anything intuition,assumed ,about this occurance.Thank you.
John/Leandro,
Mine was the very first question!!!
No joy!!!!
VeryOldJohnson ---- As we mentioned in the chat yesterday, questions that people put in the livechat before the event starts are deleted by TH-cam. So I noticed that questions like yours were accumulating there and we wanted to answer them, but they were deleted by the TH-cam system before we could see them. If you tell me what your question was, I will do my best to answer it here.
@@HamerToronto :
John, I really do appreciate your personal attention to my message, THANK YOU!!!!
*****
My question in essence was:
Was GOD on sabbatical while HIS Chosen People were being genocided during the HOLOCAUST?
@@veryoldjohnson Your question is about the Problem of Evil. Why does God allow horrific suffering? In my opinion, this is the singlemost argument against theism. There is an entire genre of theology called "theodicy" which is entirely devoted to attempting to answer this question. I'm not sure how successful most theodicies are. In a lot of cases I think that these "answers" minimize suffering and are unacceptable. In the precise formulation you have asked, God has not chosen any one people. All creation belongs to God equally; all people are of infinite worth. The idea that any one group is chosen is false tradition. That said, the genocide of any people is unacceptable, and that is true to a maximal extent for the Holocaust. I do not want to minimize suffering by giving a simple theodicy. My view is that God does not intervene capriciously for good or ill. God was not on sabbatical and is not on sabbatical. God does not ever intervene to stop suffering because that would indict God for all suffering that God does not stop. So, we have to look for more complex answers to the reality of life and suffering.
@@HamerToronto :
John, thanks for the reply, such as it was.
i have enjoyed you and your lectures over the past two years or so. I have gone back and listened to the ones that I missed too!!!
I wish you continued success.
May the FORCE be with you!!!
Sorry I missed it!
Who was the high priest during Jesus time.? If it was Caiaphas we can’t look on him as bad. Would not he had died if he went behind the vale if he had thoughts of killing Jesus if he wasn’t in God’s will?
Ta again. I may write another comment but just want to knock on the head any idea that mythicism is the prevailing idea amongst atheists. I can't pretend to speak for all of my fellow atheists of course, but in my personal experience it is rare for me to meet anyone who holds firmly to that view. I'd grant that there are quite a few who believe ( as i do ) that it is difficult to say with 100% certainty that any figure from antiquity existed , but they generally accept that the evidence for a historical Jesus is pretty well as good as you get outside of coinage. For a human.Having said that ,I'd expect the evidence of a god to be a lot stronger . Like,as a mininmum, maybe a few undisputable and complete contemporary manuscripts wouldn't be an unreasonable expectation.
That said, enjoying this....as always with John's talks.
Ps. A fact id like to know about humanity? Are we alone in the universe (not counting the other lifeforms with which we share this planet )
Professor Hamer, I respect your position, but in terms, of the Latter Day Saints restorationist movement moving from the restoration from New Testament primitivism to old testament restorationism and then to the visionary Joseph Smith concept of God is natural.
The other point, I wished to make is it is only an inference that the prophet Joseph misunderstood the concept of Elohiem . As you well know and understand that most scholars opine that " Elohiem" is the chief God whom sat as the head of the council of the Gods ( capital G) as part of the pre יתןת. Who is to say, that Joseph's view of the Gods are incorrect ? And the Nicean council shepard by Constantine is incorrect? ( Just so you know the evangelical especially the pentacostal are very distasteful to me) I lean more to Judaism or Eastern Orthodox perhaps Ethiopian Coptic but never evangelical especially Pentecostalism.
In terms, of the book of Mormon despite the lengthy quotation from Isaiah and the gospels there are more unique passages . For example, Lehi & Nephi visions of the tree of life is truly one of the great works of literature from that era. Kahil Gabrin, Heman Hesse, Viktor Frankel, Norman Vicent Peale , JJ Strang, even the venerable St. Augustine have not created a masterpiece like Lehi vision of the tree of life. That alone, in my mind, qualifies Joseph Smith as a " visionary man" .
The uncomfortable fact , that apparently brother Joseph was partial to the feminine species certainly doesn't disqualify the prophet Joseph as an extraordinary visionary figure . By those moral standards Cicero, Alexander, Aristotle, Washington, Franklin , etc would be disqualified. ( Also most importantly Kirk and Spock). Incidentally, Joseph and Roddenberry and Lucus appear to be on the same page as the prophet Joseph.
Hence, who was the greater visionary ? Campbell's & Rigdon views are antiquated in the 21st century but the visionary Joseph ideas fit more comfortable in the 21st century than in his time.
I enjoy your lectures .
Outside the Midwest, and probably Pennsylvania, the only thing people know about Quakers is the oats guy. Funny, because that was just a brand name to build trust, not some Oneida stuff where the church had a factory and a town. Kinda like how Bailey’s Irish Cream was invented by an Englishman wanting to offload both cheap milk and cheap booze during a drop in the market in the ‘70s. Fast forward a few decades and they’ve moved their factory to Ireland, and that serendipitously conceived concoction is a UNESCO cultural heritage food. Heh. What a world.
Glory to God 1:00:03
Regarding the Jewish and John church issues; it must be remembered that the Jew must also apologize to the Chrisitian as the followers of Christ were also hated and even killed by the our Jewish cousins FIRST; what I am trying to say is that the Jew was at fault first for doing what Christians did much later, certainly not following the teachings of Christ. A case in point, Paul when he was part of that Jewish pharisaic sect which killed and persecuted Christians before his conversion. So, let us be balanced in our analysis and not bow down to the Jew and perceive them as guitless party in this affair!
Sins of Islam Monitor
@IslamSins Tweeter
1:01:00 i think it’s been overblown the difference between “Jesus” and Paul. Marks gospel was Pauline so we are getting a Jesus through the lense of Paul. Which is the foundation for the other gospels. I think the problem is people have a very tainted very of Paul. Thinking he got all his ideas from a vision which is not true bc he knew plenty about the Christ followers prior to him repenting
I can not found jesus in the old testament at all
Why be a christian if you don't believe the hebrew scriptures are real? I'm having trouble with this
They're real, just not history. Stories are real, and you can believe them if you like. They're just not actually true.
Exodus not a myth.
John, what is your best evidence for Joseph's polygamy. I just saw you were on a few minutes after I found you tonight?
William Marks, Nauvoo Stake President, was on the jury that heard the evidence. He told Joseph Smith III that he knew for a fact that his dad had been involved. So the testimony of William Marks is one piece. JS III replied that if it was so, his Dad had been wrong.
"Welcome to our Inclusive Online Church, an LGBTQ+ affirming, non-dogmatic, interfaith community Beyond the Walls. Mindfulness meditation. Meditation centre."
As new-age as it gets.
I love John and these lectures but the Islamic suffering under colonialism is a total myth. Every large islamic empire was itself a brutal colonizer, and most (currently fundamentalist) muslim nations were never colonised by the west. And even if they were, only very rarely was this as grim as the more classic examples of colonialism.
Re: the Spiral Logo which you explained--The design behind you in your talks has always bothered me. It's very unappealing. I had no idea that it had some meaning to your organization, but the meaning doesn't help. I strongly recommend you get a professional designer to redo your look. It seems vaguely cultish or sci-fi, and doesn't do anything for your talks.
Hilarious
Professor John, sometimes regrettably, the historicity issues are clearly legitimate and relevant. Also, your points regarding the underlying metaphysical, psychological, symbology, emotional and spiritual transformation of religious faith is salient.
Which brings me to this inquiry of you Professor . Within, the context of the fallacy of historicity what really is the substantive distinction of the gospel of Christ , as taught by St. Paul and the prophet Joseph? In other words, in terms, of relative net value, why should St. Paul be considered greater than the prophet Joseph? In my view, Literary dependence is a cop out! I will put one inquiry to you. In the book of Mormon, Lehi vision of the Tree of Life is a tremendous contribution to religious meaning , symbolism and allegorical contribution . How could the vision of the tree of life be downgraded below St. Paul's more Roman Greco western type of reductionism ? ( Simply because one discounts the prophets Joseph insufficient historicity and the sintella of evidence of some of St. Paul's historicity ?
Put aside some evidence of the prophets Joseph's unconventional sexual energy, in the manner of St. Augustine or St. Paul's suspected sexual orientation and focus on the religious , metaphysical contributions and the prophet Joseph deserves a legitimate place among the greatest contributors of world history, would you not have to agree ?
Not at all. You mentioned Joseph's or anyone else's visions? Can anyone of you tell me what your next door neighbor's dream or vision was last night? Do you even remember (in totality) what you dreamed of last night? I didn't think so. Joseph this, Mary that... Visions, dreams,Visions, dreams...
I wish I could have asked you about Jesus’ life in India before he started preaching and why you pass over Notovich’s testimony of the scriptures he recounted in Tibet. The telling of the ancient Tibetan texts from the Hemis Monastery in Lasa appears to be an accurate and objective account of Jesus’ life. Why do you discount it?
John would likely say that theory has been well refuted. Although it's questionable as to whether John would be able to cite any sources that confirm his answer.
😅John's response to "mythicism" was dismissive to the extreme. The only mention we have about a Jesus of Nazareth is the Gospels. Only Mark is original the others are copies and embellishments of Mark. Paul's Jesus is a heavenly figure who has never been on earth, but was to bring in the end time shortly.
Not true. Where do you pull this? Mark is not original. Relied on Q. John is very different.
@@janicehussock7735
True. There is no Q. Just copiers. John is a late fabrication and a response to the consistent no-show of Jesus (3:16). Just believing will get you salvation!
Love how a few goons here somehow know the unknowable about the Bible. Unlike then I studied very hard about the Bible and Jwsus at a major Ivy League university, then I did some study in seminary. I met with leading faith historians. John and the community are no copy . If I were as sketching prepared, I would not trumpets ignorance. Every person you lecture may know far more than you. They are far more sober and careful than you because they know so much more than you. I saw the most informed and influential people maintain curiosity. The more I learned the more I was aware no one can ever know it all. I also studied human psychology and neuroscience. We can never be so certain.John is no copy. The community was dist
I left the live chat because there was too much racism (hate speach against white people) that was allowed.
Too bad because I wanted to engage with John in the Q&A.
I know John promotes far left wing politics in his videos so I am not surprised that the chat allowed disrespectful comments to "white" people.
You have a timestamp? I don't see a line of it. Even if a line or two didn't get moderated you're implying more than that.
Really..? I didn't see any of that. And I was paying attention and noticing how polite and respectful everyone was. Maybe you just didn't like an opinion from one or more of the people in the chat? That's not the same as hate speech.
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There was a "woke" person arguing against an "anti-woke" person for a while, but I didn't see anything especially offensive from either of them, and I'm pretty sure neither side intended their statements as racist or offensive.
@@FireEverLivingIt was the woke person vs the anti woke person that finally put me over. The woke person made two comments about white people. But about 20 minutes before that two other disrespectful comments were made about white people.
I politely asked the chat to please keep the political arguments out of the chat and the woke vs anti woke kept going so I left.
John I love the holy Spirit of wisdom and knowledge that you possess. Thank you for your diligent work. I'm a retired building contractor and I noticed that your east west line of your background is not level. This is not meant as a criticism or to take away the importance of your q and a but unless its not a glitch in my TV have your media technology adjusted. Thanks again bob
Hilarious
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