When Cuban MiG-23s fought Mirage F1s. In Africa?!?
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Our video talks about a forgotten air war in the heart of Africa. When South African military fought the Cuban military, intervening across the Atlantic to help our their allies in Angola. MiGs and Mirages fighting against each other, flying over a much larger, decades long conflict.
Music by Matija Malatestinic www.malatestini...
Images used in the thumbnail:
Botha by Government ZA
Castro by Antônio Milena /ABr, Agência Brasil, CC BY 3.0 BR
MiG-23 by USAF
Mirage F1 by USAF
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Nice video
One of your best ever, great Cadence, nice details, good visuals.. well done sir.. Cheers Allan
Video Idea:
How costly would a US invasion of Cuba be?
@@RemberReach not very, its not a real army anymore.. Like their Cigars the Communist's have driven it into the ground.. Remember the Castro brothers are Multi Billionaire Marxist.. western leftist hate groups are so very stupid..
@@RemberReach this would be interesting
Please do more about historical dogfights, this one is very interesting
+
War Football will blow your mind away. (Clue: last air dogfight between propeller driven combat aircraft in history) 😉
1965 Pakistan vs indian air force dogfight
* Iranian F-14 Tomcat combat jet aircraft and their aerial victories during the 1980 - 1988 Iran/Irak War producing multiple IRIAF air combat Aces which still rank today as some of the most prolific jet killing Aces in history.
* Propeller driven A-1 Skyraiders ground attack aircraft from the US Navy (and built during the Korean War era) downing Mig-17s combat jet aircraft from the Vietnamese Air Force during the Vietnam War.
* A Nazi designed combat aircraft, the Messerschmitt Me-109G (a Checzoslovakian made version, Avia S-99), the most produced during WWII, the most famous aircraft from Nazi Germany, flying for the Israel Air Force during the Israeli War of Independence in 1947 and most extraordinarly, US pilots who used to kill them during WWII now flying and achieving aerial victories with these IAF combat aircraft during the first Israeli-Arab War by downing British made Spitfires and American made P-51s from the Egiptian Airforce. Insaneeee!!
Operation Bolo is especially so, @Yeah Right. The U.S used the greed of the NVAF, and their eagerness to shoot down USAF bombers, to savage the NVAF MIG-21 fleet.
The F-4 Phantom II's flown by the USAF were equipped with a jamming pod normally carried by the F-105; so, the F-4's were thought to be bombers - BIG mistake...
Cuban involvement in Angola is weird as hell and logistically impressive considering the distance and military capabilities of Cuba.
Yes. It is a fascinating history.
Russia would of covered the costs 😂
@@amacca2085 Soviets
Mei Day
Communists are the smartest people in the world.
@@cosmicwakes6443 funny enough none of the smartest people in the world at that time or ever were communists. Happens when you kill off the educated out of fear of uprisings towards your delusions
French planes flown by south africans fight russian planes flown by cubans in angola.
Mr. Worldwide
Hotel trivago
The Real World War
Some interesting info:
During operation Moduler, the SADF managed to capture a soviet SA-8 Anti-Air missile system.
This was the first time, such highly sophisticated technology landed in western hands.
(Surface level) The South Africans shared the information and technical specifications with the US.
(Sub surface level) The South Africans traded/gave, one of these systems to the US, so they could evaluate it them selves.
Resulting in the west, being able to reverse engineer and understand, at the time, one of, if not best, soviet anti-air technology at the time.
Sth Africa also rapidly expanding their own domestic AA systems. Had the war gone on a year or two longer, when the Cheetah fighters (mirage upgrade to new generation), and the AA guns + missle systems (mounted on the Rooikat), the tide of war would have been very interesting.
And that was when they were on pursuit of the Communists, after defeating them on the ground.
@@freedomloverusa3030 Jip, exactly.
@@demun6065 It would have definitely been interesting to see, how different the war would have continued, if said technology was to see (or see more) operational usage.
Definitely, the domestic AA system, and surface to air missiles, would have been extremely interesting to see how they fared against the soviet technology. Someone I know (won't detail it), worked on the missile systems for their service (closing days of the war), and said how the new developing technology was several leagues ahead of the current systems used by the soviets (weather said project ever completed, I don't know)
But yea, I would have loved to see the ZA-35 see action and make it past the prototype phase.
The very famous G5 howitzer was also reversed engineered and upgraded from a captured artillery piece, there was accounts of this artillery suppressing airbases so helicopters and aircraft could not take off.
Poor guy manages to land his plane, overshoots the runway, finally stops then gets paralysed by the ejector seat going off. Poor bloke
Does show the professionalism of the saaf despite equipment that could not compete with the latest Russian kit.
You forget to mention that on the ground battles the Angolan/ Cuban forces who outnumbered the SADF by far suffer great losses and has retreated back to Luanda. SADF was only 12 km from their basis when they were called back to make a U- turn going back to their home basis. To the frustration of their commanders coz victory was evident.
Cubans flying Russians planes fighting South Africans flying French planes. Nice
In Angola
wait until you learn about the south african upgrade of a french plane using russian tech
@@jeandelacroix6726 which one ? Do tell, i'm actually interested
@@Errorcutive super Mirage with klimov engine
The conflict that showed the true potential of the MiG-23 instead of those disastrous misfires in the Middle East
First time they used decent version and opponent was on par.
soviet fighters should have a big exclamation point regarding their performance in combat, they did alright when not operated by arab pilots
@@gabbyprincip1575 If you read the Syrian Air Force accounts they shot down a bunch of Israeli F15, F16’s and F4’s without any losses, even though the desert is littered with Mig23 wreckage.
Yeah, Egyptian Mig23’s handed over to the US were tested and found to be superior to the F16 in thrust and climb, but slightly inferior in manueverabilty. With a competent pilot it should have been a fairly even match.
It kinda just got screwed in the matchups but calling it bad is a bit like calling the F-16 bad because one got shot down by a Mig-21. It's more often than not everything around the plane that determines how well it does, pilot training, support crew, weapons equipment, ground based radar and so on.
I’m from South Africa. We had the whole communist bloc here. Russians and Cubans . Fun times.
People judge on South Africa for its past but we were killing Russians long before it became trendy.
Same in Thailand when we r still the head of SETO after American loses the Vietnam war and leave Communism is around us....
(Fucking Commi Vietnam , N.korean ,Red Khmer , Commi Laos and Soviet with China )
But we still winning the war and still alive LAMO what a great day....
@@mrkotouoeji4267 But still starving. Can't eat freedom eh. Haha
@@mrkotouoeji4267 it never really came.to a conclusion because of internal.politics in south Africa.
Lol the forces that south Africa was facing never got any ground only after the south africans pulled out due to changing governments. Plus the rebels that got into government after the war ended up losing power to a bunch of south African mercenaries with out the help of.the soviets in the end.
You think the combined efforts of the rebels, Russians and Cubans against a sanctioned south Africa would do a little better..but they lost tank after tanks and ended up in unmarked mass Graves in the middle of the bush. That's almost worse than what the afghans did to the Russians. They couldn't pull it off with all that help..
It's entirely possible that the MiG-23s escorting the helicopters did not pursue the Mirage F1s for the simple reason that their mission was to escort and protect the helicopters, which they did by driving off the Mirages. Following to continue the engagement would have left the helicopters open to attack by additional South African fighters, which the Cubans had no way of knowing were present or not. For all the MiG pilots knew, the two Mirages were sent in to draw the escorting fighters away. It speaks well to their training and discipline that they maintained their escort of the helicopters rather getting caught up in the excitement of the dogfight.
Hahahaha Max, you must be one hell of a liberal/ communist to believe that. It's like the ANC museum in South Africa that shows how the mighty terrorist SWAPO and associates like Cuban and Russians was the heroes. My friend propaganda is a ugly thing if it is not the truth.
WELL maybe they were just not up to their task and besides they did not want to fight a war that they had nothing to do with. SA was built by Europeans and do yourself a favour come and see what it is now
I knew it. I have the chance to speak with a veteran, a Cuban pilot who fought in Angola and that man was a badass.
De verdad? Donde hablasteis con el?
How many people did he kill?
@@cameraman1234567890a él vive en un edificio de veteranos por Plaza de la Revolución. Se llama Alejandro pero es amigo de un amigo. Mi amigo se llama Osvaldo, que era de tropas especiales y que operaba tras las líneas enemigas.
@@chaosXP3RT at least two confirmed downings, a few centurion tanks and a lot of Sabimbi's people with air to surface payload.
@@danielbenitezperez6264 2 confirmed downings!? Damn that must've been 87/88.
The Cubans were there...and East Germany, Yugoslavia, Congo, North Korea, Romania, Tanzania, Mozambique, Brazil, Portugal, Morocco, China, Zambia...and let's not forget Executive Outcomes and all the other mercs who fought there.
World War Angola
Technical EO went there for round two after all the countries left.
My uncle was almost killed in Angola, brazilian marine. He suffered a MPLA ambush while driving a jeep, his teammate died with several shot wounds.
A lot of wars are increasingly fought with participants from EVERYWHERE.
EO were hired by a British businessman to destroy unita as savimbi was threatening their interests. Apparently they made use of oil drums with explosives to create an air burst fire bomb and probably would have been involved in savimbis last stand when he was killed. At Cuito they were Recces and 32 battalion troops, EO didn't exist then.
@@MarxAlex best part was EO fought for the MPLA against UNITA
I fought as a paratrooper in this war in the late 80’s. The Cuban Mig 23 pilots were extremely reluctant to engage the F1’s, every engagement was initiated by the Mirages, the Migs choosing to use their speed to disengage. It is notable that in the engagement with Arthur Piercy that the Migs were forced to engage by the Mirages head to head encounter. They reversed and were heading back to their airfield when the second merge occurred. The Mirages were deep over enemy territory, 300km from home, with a damaged aircraft. The Migs were less than 50km from their own airfield but still chose to disengage and not go for the kill.
After that it was an air to air stalemate - Mirages were ordered to avoid the Migs and the Migs never attempted to engage, even though they could have easily attacked the SAAF bases in Namibia. But they did bomb the hell out of us at Cuito Canavale.
I am aware of one F1 shot down by a SAM, but I know of at least two Mig23’s that were downed by MANPADS and several that were destroyed on the ground by long range artillery fire.
By G5 artillery, my brother was part of the G5 crew at that time.
My uncle also fought on Cuito Canavale when Cuba was drafting all soldiers at that time, he was mainly infantry but he doesn’t like speaking about it much, he lost many friends there, really bad war!
I wonder if it was for diplomatic reasons, maybe they were afraid that if they started going directly after South African troops it'd give the US the justification it needed to intervene and potentially turn a war that had been a slow victory until now into a grinding stalemate. Or maybe they just didn't feel the need to do anything other than keep South Africans away. Or maybe the larger goal was to make sure that South Africa kept itself overextended in this war so that the apartheid government would eventually fall apart, that was what happened in the end I guess.
@@hedgehog3180 The old SA government gave power to the ANC willingly.
They were NOT forced to do it, all thanks to the traitor De Klerk.
Now South Africa is a complete shithole country.
@@hedgehog3180 The war was largely kept a secret from the general South African Public, only deploying very small numbers of troops into Angola - there were only about 3,000 SA Soldiers fighting at Cuito Cuanavale. Directly attacking SA Bases in Namibia would have raised awareness of the war, possibly allowing hesitant politicians to commit larger numbers of troops.
There has also been talk among veteran groups that some Cuban Generals said at the peace talks they were very concerned about SA Nuclear weapons being deployed if Cuban forces openly threatened to cross into Namibia.
Interesting stuff. Thank you for involving African countries as I find conflicts between 'smaller' nations very interesting for whatever reason
One of the great things about aerial combat is the respect between pilots, and how their love of aviation brings them together when hostilities cease. It's a level of professionalism that still persists today and gives some hope for humanity.
That was a surprisingly wholesome ending.
gun cameras show the truth. Rankin downed two migs
Several members of my family were with the Cuban forces deployed in Angola, there is no "perhaps" about it, the USSR paid cash per every soldier sent, they also gave Cuba equipment for free as long as it was used to fight in Angola. It wasn't the first or the last instance of Cuban interventionism
Soviet and Cuban were in separated mission, the soviet helped but they don't pay for each Cuban soldier. Angola pay for the Cabinda defense, the rest was a regular war like many others in the cold war
We flattened the airstrip at Cuito Cuarnavale to stop the MIGs from landing there. The old red water reservoir is still there 36 years later.
Im sure we targeted that reservoir but hit their ammo dump by accident as it was behind or to the right of it. Remember the final attack to get rid of artillery ammo. My gun went forward again as part of a two gun team. 2 or 3 days. Too long agi lol
I fought in that war, on the South African side. We gave them hell!
Its one of those wars where we won most battles but largely lost the war in the grand scheme of things:/
South Africa won the war for the most part, since the Treaty of New York forced the Cubans to leave Angola without the MPLA in full control, and South Africa could withdraw from SWA in its own terms, essentially creating a buffer against and preventing safe havens for armed groups targeting South Africa itself. it just didn't enjoy the victory politically because of international pressure
Trots op jou, boet!
Al my broers was op die grens. Ek het oproep papiere gekry in graat 10 maar toe eindig die oorlog en ek mis die army met 1 jaar. Trots op my broers.
@@gethgod2350 Of course, we lost, the communist ANC is In power.
Todays South Africans would have jettisoned when they see the enemy.
Sometimes it's the smart thing to do. Pick your time to fight.
If they can get their fat arses in the seat of a fighter jet?
@@dougerrohmer The old SAAF, would make it their time to fight, on their own terms 😂
@@Deontjie ahahahaha
Binkov surname name says it all…Soviet propaganda
"Death to the MPLA!!!" Black ops 2
Savimbi - "DEATH TO THE MPLA"
Savimbi - also dead
The Angolan war was between factions in Angola. One group promised to be communist so they received massive amounts of aid from Russia. The other group promised to fight communism, so they got aid from South Africa. There were even Angolan citizens fighting against Russia and Cuban in the South African and Namibian armies. Like 101 Battalion and 32 Battalion.
Wow, will look more into it, didn't know
@@DS92_ My battalion, 101, was 80% Owambo troops and non-commissioned officers. These Owambos fought on the namibian side because of the atrocities done to their family by the MPLA. We reguarly ran into their families while we patrolled and gathered information from the border up to 35 km north. Our Ondangwa main base was at 17°55'47.40" S 15°58'56.14" E. We used the shooting range of Koevoet, who was the territory police. Our traing base was Miershoop at 18°23'33.09" S 16°37'18.64" E
@@Deontjie I thought the war had to do with neighborhing countries attacking South Africa because of Apartheid, today's South Africa's army has the potention to be an elite force....
@@DS92_ In 1973 the African people attacked the Portuguese because they were generating and hoarding all the wealth. Just like East Africa did to the Indians in the early 50's. Some fled to South Africa, some made it back to Portugal. Most of the extensive fleet of large fishing ships was deliberately beached by the Portuguese crew. Still visible on Google Earth today. With the Portuguese control gone, civil war soon followed. Tribal warfare. There was no way for any fighting force to cross into South Africa. Crossing the semi-dessert in Namibia or Botswana would have meant certain death. If not from starvation, then from South African bombers. And Botswana was never anti-South-Africa. So that was never the plan. South Africa's government was attacked from within RSA borders. The ANC even planted bombs against Africans to purswayd them to support their cause. Then they switch to necklacing. This is where the ANC invented the method of putting a car tire around a live person''s neck, dousing them in fire, and burning them. Something still used today. Tat is why African people in South Africa will not vote against the ANC, even if they are dissatisfied with the ANC corruption. They will rather abstain from voting.
Anyway, the Angolan war started as a tribal war for power between the tribes of Luanda, and the eastern tribes of Savimbi. The USSR got involved by forcing the bankrupt Cuba into war. South Africa was asked by the USA to help Savimbi and we were supported with funds from the USA. Until helping RSA was not politically correct any more. The ANC and Angolans love to claim victory at every change they get. But the fact is that the war was played inside Angola, not in Namibia. (except for a few terrorist acts like planting land mines, mostly killing local Owambos.) Our Buffel vehicle carrying Owambo troops was struck by a triple cheese mine in Namibia, with no injuries to the 10 passengers or driver. Visiting the shot out Russian T34 and T55 tanks in Angola is quite popular for ex South African soldiers that took part in that shooting. Using the world's first wheeled IFV.
@@DS92_ today's SA army is a joke of epic proportions don't be lying.
Fidel was paid in oil for each Cuban soldier. Unfortunately the Cuban people got squat.
what did fidel just sit on that oil or something like a chicken warming their eggs?
@@sankarchaya I think he padded his nest, ask his son the prime Minister of Canada. He might know what daddy did besides pay his security forces.
@@mathewcaldwell2945 MEDS NOW!!!
@@paulmaartin and I was rooting for UNITA, and South Africa to win. At least they smacked them real good . Before leaving Angola.
My Dad served in the Angolan Military Counterintelligence Service while my uncle served on the field as machune gunner in serveral battles against UNITA and South Africa.
My uncle then managed to escape the army by a friend (the family payed him out). The next day after he left the FOB, the FOB wascompletly destroyed by an South African artillary strike. only few survived the strike.
I faught at Cuito Cannavale during operation Hooper and Displace as a mech infantry soldier. The Angolans definitely had air superiority. A thousand sorties in 3 months is a lot of ordinance and some of them came very close to finishing us. We still managed to push seven armoured brigades back across the the bridge to Cuito and get the Cubans to leave Angolan. Unita continued to operate for another decade. It also gave the sadf such a reputation that when the ANC got into power, no foreign military/security agency would come into south africa. Don't you think that the ANC would have loved to invite their Soviet buddies. South Africa is unique in this respect. After Cuito Cannavale no one wanted to take on the sadf. The irony is that most south Africans don't even know about the significance of what happened there. If those brigades were not stopped they would have steamrolled Unita and arrived at the border of Namibia. Flushed with success, they could very well have marched into Namibia and all things being considered, it's possible that the south African government would have pulled out. Then you would have had this massive confident force on the south African border. That and the ANC would have possibly ignited a bloodbath civil war in south africa. So even technically, south african military action in Angola was illegal, it made sure to stabalise the region to this day. Bear in mind that there were never more than 3000 troops operating in Angola during this period. You cannot imagine the smell of a thousand bodies beginning to rot amongst you while only hours before they smelled like bbq. Or sleeping amongst them after hours of combat and carry on some hours later to finish the attack. 4 months in the field is a long time. Most of us got sick, malaria, hepatiti, dysentery and shock got more of us than combat.
@@danielbtwd correction.the point had been proven there was no need to pursue a phyric victory at that point.
@joesutherland225 the Angolans had for quite a few years been launching offensives against Unita with no sign of stopping. It was hardly a pyrric victory. The South Africans stopped several well equipped brigades in their tracks over a period of 12 months. Unita lived on for another decade relatively unhindered after those battles. South African losses were minimal compared to the damage suffered by Fapla. Unita losses were almost as high as Fapla. Those attacking brigades ploughed through Unita, and they were very confident of victory and had no intention of stopping. In fact in late 86, that force was so impressive that the general consensus within the SADF was to pull out of Angola. It was only because of one general saying that he could deal with it that the sadf had a go.
delusional😂
i was a tanker in 1989 for the SADF.
our war ended only months after i was deployed to the caprivi strip and the only action we saw was a mig23 in the distance.
we shat ourselves.
See Sarel Cotzees interview with legacy conversations. I was with 4 sai during Hooper. I saw his tank get shot out during the 59th. Our platoon pulled him and his crew out of that situation. We sometimes had those migs flying so close to us you could see the pilots faces.
And now both sides can continue the proxy-war, as a proxy-proxy-war in the comment section. Unless you use a proxy server, which would make it a proxy-proxy-proxy-war.
I'm using an alt account so it's a proxies proxy proxy war
@@matthew1882 that's the Spirit!
Hi Binkov can you please do an analysis on T55/T60 tanks vs Ratel armored vehicles?
T34 tanks still litre the landscape in Angola. So this was a bit of a (surprising) one sided battle.
I always thought it was T55 as their main armor brigades, with T72's coming in near the end of the war. On paper you would expect they have the clear advantage. I would really like to learn, how the Armour for both countries compared and how the enemy was countered.
This is my most favourite cold war era unsung war... the one that almost got south africa to become a nuclear power. Crazy times...
leading edge in medicin too
South Africa WAS a nuclear power, and then voluntarily gave it up - the only country to do that.
@@dougerrohmer not true. gaddafi gave up his. they still went after him tho...
@@operator9858 Wikipedia says: " Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said Libya's nuclear program was "in the very initial stages of development" at the time.[2]" In other words, he didn't have one, and if he was even close the Israelis would have kicked his ass.
@@dougerrohmer Israelis? You do realize how far away Lybia is right?
I love the detail of the MiG-23 changing wing sweep as it turned in to fight.
There's a very interesting interview on the Aircrew Interview channel with Cobus Torien, one of the SAAF pilots who flew Mirages in this conflict. Well worth watching.
Fantastic video as always and you try to remain factual rather than opinion based, which I enjoy. Nice to see a part of my heritage being shown on your channel, my father and all my uncles fought in the Bush War. A great book to read is Battle on the Lomba
Yes, Battle of the Lomba is one of my favorites, I will never forget Skeletons on the closet… , my other favorite is Koevoet.
What about the mig south africa captured?
I wonder what went through the minds of those two pilots after getting in contact with one another. Great to see they not only had great respect for each other, but also were willing to work together to make something greater (such a shame the trip didn’t happen in the end).
I really like this format of video, Binkov! It’s great to see the big picture mixed with the reality that war is, fortunate or unfortunately, fought by people.
Ah man i thought you doin indo-pak war of 1971
Che's struggle wasn't _just_ with "the oppressive Cuban government of the 1950s," it was also with the United States, of which Fulgencio Batista was basically a puppet. Remember, Cuba before the revolution was basically a gambling resort destination run by the literal mob lol. The Cuban revolution was an act of decolonization. Which is why they supported Angolan decolonization against the Portuguese, even over the Soviets. Which is honestly pretty cool, in my book.
"Decolonization", aka lefty wingnut jargon to imply changing from one bad overlord to a worse one. The soviets and cubans contributed their fair share to turn Africa into a hellhole of corruption, poverty and war, legitimized by the "people's revolution/decolonization" slogan.
It was a sham, just like the Cuban Revolution: switching from being ruled by the right wing mob to the lefty elite that eats caviar while the common folk eats beans.
@@MrAlepedroza lmao cope
@@elen5871 lmao, nice way of saying you have no argument at all 🤣 Cry, tankie.
The leader of Cubs before Castro seized power without US backing.
It was wrong of America to support him but we didn’t force him there, so colonialism isn’t really the right word here.
He was actually an elected official during ww2 so he was fairly popular at first
@@anguswaterhouse9255 it is the right word here n_n!!
Piercy’s seat fired when he was on land; probably already stopped. The South African F-1s had Martin-Baker Mk4 seats made under license in France which had no 0-0 capability, so as the seat fired at under 70 knots speed, it “worked” as advertised and saved his life but paralyzed him as those were 0-70 seats and thus would work only at speed of 70 knots with the plane on the ground. Later F-1s had Mk10s which are true 0-0 seats and some users upgraded their Mk4s to Mk6 which were 0-0 capable too
The MiG built by the Armenian engineer Mikoian
Mig is built by Mikoian and Gurevich , not only Mikoian
@@МихаилЧерников-п2т Head engineer Mikoian and his assistant Gurevich
That’s why the Mig is called Mikoian. Usually for MiG-23 I will hear Mikoian MiG-23. Just like the nickname for the AK. Thank you for the knowledge sir.
My father flown MiG-23s in the Angola War.
that's pretty cool, he must have good stories!
lol that was a walk in the park for south africa they f up all of them hands down Greetings to my south African friends from Portugal 🇵🇹
Lol sure Thay did keep dreaming
I was there during this war 1987. The Mirages were superior to the Mig"s and the SAAF pilots were excellent pilots without any fear of engaging the enemy. The cubans in jets and tanks were not the bravest of soldiers. Nor were the angolans. Read about Ops Modular.
Lol, did you also terrorize kids in Bantustans back home? You withered racists lost.
Operation modular was literally nothing to do with the Cubans, the only times the air forces seriously fought each other was in skirmishes and one Cuban bombing run in 1988 which killed 11 SADF soldiers
@@navajoguy8102 so jy is Nie n rasis Nie
MIG23MLD wasn't as bad performer as western press says.
@@Rafaelleao1977 You think the american press would ever report positive about a soviet aircraft?
MIG 23 were in the Indian Airforce and performance was good
Then again Cuba didn't use MLD's, those were reserved only for the Soviet Air Force. Cuban Floggers in Angola were only of the MF/BN variants, the BN being a dedicated Ground Attack version and the MF being a downgraded export version of the very first Flogger model.
MLD's would have ripped the Mirage F1 a new asshole with no difficulty, those things were designed to go toe to toe with F-16's whilst the MiG-29 was still in low supply.
Mig & Sukhoi = brilliant Jets flown by sea turtles
It is a fact that the Cuban's got their military hardware for free from the USSR. South Africa, by contrast, paid full dollar for theirs, whether legitimate purchases or acquired on the black market. Plus, of course, the homegrown SA arms industry was beginning to turn out some quite impressive weaponry. However, very high tech stuff is not the easiest thing to produce for a small country (I'm referring to White SA in the past) with a relatively small economy. And, of course, there was a worldwide arms embargo against SA. As this documentary makes clear, the air to air missiles used by the SAAF in the late 80's were quite obsolete, and no longer of any use in air to air combat. The F1 Mirage was still a pretty good weapons platform and not yet obsolete. However, just imagine if the USA had SOLD (repeat, SOLD and not given for free like the Soviets did for Cuba) to SA at that time a single squadron of F16 fighter jets, and modern Sidewinder air to air missiles. The whole complexion of the air war would have been different in Angola if that had (or something similar from another Western country) been the case.
Been reading a lot of late. It was UNITA that requested that South Africa get involved (Jonas Savimbi had vowed to drive from Angola the 20 000 plus Cubans out. He had flown to Pretoria to ask personally that South Africa intervene) . With US support (covertly) to have a foot hold against communism, SA reluctantly joined the battle. SA was very quickly stabbed in the back by the US, and left stranded in a fight it couldn't afford.
The battle of Cuito Cuanavale is seen as a victory for both sides, because both sides had very different objectives. Cuban and FAPLA Forces believed that the Town was the objective and fought to not let it fall. South Africa and UNITA's objective was to break the offence ability, which they did (brutally) . But SA had no intention of attacking the town itself.
After the battle of Cuito Cuanavale, it was obvious that if South Africa continued to fight, it would force the Russians and Cubans to send more troops. South Africa could not afford a war of attrition, or a war at all, since they never had more than 4000 troops in Angola ever. Hence why they sued for peace. Not to mention that the Mirage Fighters could not be replaced.
(A Side note, the Atlas Cheetah was produced to be able to contend with the MiG-23's, but it would not be ready in time.)
The long and short of it, SA won a Military War, but lost the Political War.
Indeed.
And now your fascist state is no more
@@michaelhayes4231 Fascist state? Need I remind you that South African's fought actual Fascists, during WWII. Including my grandfather. I advise you to come visit our country, to see just how diverse it is. Sadly it is painted very black and white in history, but its far more complicated than that.
@@michaelhayes4231 neither is the USSR or Fidel's Cuba. It's almost like... nations change over 30 years. Who woulda thunk?
@@ZANDF what the fuck are you talking about? South Africa was fascist but fought against the Germans because it was a colony. Every heard of the sharpeville massacre? SA only got equality today because people had to fight the apartheid government
Good account of what went down. As an Artillery man we ruled the roost as is now shown in Ukraine. Russia learning from us
High 5. G2s. 10 call sign pappie. Gun no8. PACKER
As a South African, thanks for covering a slice of our history.
Interesting Tidbits: South African knew that Cuba was involved until they confirmed it via satellite photos of rows of baseball fields in a part of the world that baseball was never introduced until Cubans came by a boatload.
"I MISS MY HOME and I am LOW on FUEL"
XDXDXDDDDDD
And after that Elon Musk moved to Canada at the age of 17. A new history has begun.
I really like how accurate you are with the aircraft models, your even accurate with the missiles used with the Matra Magic’s and R-60’s
The battles at Cuito Cuanavale were no "tactical draw". The outnumbered South Africans overwhelmingly won. The communist forces were smashed, between 4,800 and 6,000 died. South Africa lost about 73 men, but UNITA lost many more.
RSA may have won the battle but the Cubans won the war.
@@cedricliggins7528 The battle was the war
Cubans lost 40 men in comparison.
Also you just left out THOUSANDS of UNITA fighters who died so really those numbers of casualties were neck and neck.
@@cedricliggins7528 you counted the communist losses for the enitely of 1987 and 1988 and left out the unita losses Looool
Upvoted instantly. These are some of the coolest planes that ever planed.
After a war pilots from hostile nations are able to talk with each other , despite having tried to kill each other.
Hi my uncle was a lieutenant in the Cuban armed forces, two deployments: first Ethiopia then Angola. He says that most of time in Angola (late 70s early 80s) was spent chasing portuguese women, fucking around in Luanda, fighting in random towns, smuggling a ton of stuff and securing british economic interests for some fucking reason. 20th century was wild
sounds awesome heheh
Very true.Also get drunk and using cannabis
South Africa went into their territory. Not once did the Cubans, Russians or anyone else enter Namibia or SA. Only SA advanced forward. SA vs 5 armies...and still kicked their @sses
Yes!
True That!
@P T Ah. 1 Mirage shot and landed safely vs 6 MiGs shot down lol
...even if what you've said is true - no one entered Namibia. Last battle was fought in Angola - and not 1 centimetre was gained by any f the 5 armies
@P T this clown again
Only cubans a angolan gov forces had soldiers on the ground. Unita and south africans were the opposition. I was there in 88 so faught together with unita soldiers too. My gun and crew was in the army news for taking out a Ground to air missile with two 140mm airburst basebleed shots which was among many many lost equipment and personnel of the communist goverment. In that operation (Packer) we lost 4 soldiers incl one pilot, who all died in accidents. The commies were not close to that lucky.
Russian , cuban, angolan and if im not mistaken, east german pilots were the ones flying migs.
13:46 "the communists capitalized"
Namibia became independent on 21 March 1990, not 1989.
The strangest Cold War episode is Cabinda, when Cubans "protected" US oil interests against some thugs who wanted to blow up parts of it. It can't get weirder.
No puedes entenderlo, porque no eres un estratega, como lo fué Castro, el quería evitar una intervención directa de USA en la guerra
can you make a video about the 1999 NATO intervention in Yugoslavia?
How many Cuban and Fapla casualties in this conflict ??? The rest is history
Your point?
Who cares...
@@skullfx950 HAHAHA! Damn this comment thread is slaty af!!😅
The cubans lost more migs than we lost Mirages. We only had one that was irreparable. And ja its not just Cuba. The Soviet Union was involved so I would not say Cuba did all of that.
The soviets were pissed off at cuba for its belligerence and only joined when cubans dragged them in.
@@johnmurdoch8534 well yes
@P T well that is called battle tactics my friend. Come in fire and disappear, because you know your plane can't ingange in a dogfight. Think smart not stupid.
@P T The Migs are too scared to engaged the F14 Tomcats.
@@johnmurdoch8534I'm pretty sure there were not any soviets in the war
Vodka-23s versus Champagne-1s
Now Cubans understand why Cuba is so poor. Such a poor country doing a military operations in another continent? It's costly even for super powers
Survival of the Cuban regime depended on Soviet aid and protection. Survival of the Soviets depended on how successful they were in achieving geopolitical goals, thus it was quite rational of the Cubans to fight the USSR's proxy wars.
@Kill Billy And Angola did not hesitate to abandon the USSR when it started to collapse. People lambast the Americans for partaking in useless wars, but I think the war in Angola was one of the most worthless conflicts, next to Afghanistan.
@Kill Billy Cuba didnt "have to" fight, Agustino Neto asked Fidel for support and Fidel offered to depot tropos in 1975 without ever talking to the Soviets about the decisión even though the equipment was given to Cuba only for the defence of the nation against US invasion, the Soviets were not happy with Cuban involvement.
@@user-bh9wg3wq7s Survival of the Cuban regime depended on pragmatism, not soviet aid, while soviet aid helped, Cuba would have stayed a functiong state even without it via mutual aid from the nonaligned movement, as they have for the past 31 years.
Check your facts! Cubans lost 7 migs in Cuito Cuanavale alone.
9 : 1
Hahaha yeah right
No they did not. They lost one during the SADF's attack on the Tumpo bridgehead from a UNITA portable missile, and another during the Cuban "Western offensive" when two Cuban MIG's destroyed the calueque dam's sluice gates, with one of the Jets being hit by South African AAA and crashing on the way back to base
@@ravenmusic6392 furthermore, my grandfather was there. I have thoroughly researched the issue and Cuban and South African forces suffered similar casualties on the ground, however, the Cubans decisively achieved air superiority by the time of Cuito Canavale. Aerial battles between the 2 countries were big events, and Cuba simply had better jets at the time. South Africa had already been sanctioned at this point so it’s not their fault, and despite the limitations dogfighting was not one sided
I was not there. Noone from my family was there. Noone I know was there.
same, fuck historical events
DEATH TO THE MPLA! Real Gs understand this reference.
I had no idea Cuba supplied volunteers and aircraft to Angola. Now I know why the real reason there were Cuban militia, not in Menedez ‘s name but likely Ex Cuban military guns for hire
What would Africans fight with if Europeans/ European descendants did not invent everything?
🤔
@@regulus7181
Actually Neanderthal is a European/ Middle Eastern species of homo.
@@regulus7181
Perhaps the 2 to 5% neanderthal that all non-sub-saharan Africans have in them helped out a bit.
Little bit of mixing.
You never know.
😉
What would Europeans fight with if they hadnt stolen everything. No one has monopoly on knowledge.
Rocks
Sticks and rocks probably?
This happens when you pick the unhistorical AI.
The Mig 23 MLD was really Dangerous
I’m Angolan and I say this is a pretty accurate Video. поздравления коронель Биньков
Agg bly stil jou ver dommed khafer
Funny thing the Russians actually tried to steal a Mirage from the Lebanese air force in the sixties, but were thwarted. Old KGB type stuff I read about long ago.
Sounds like the Russian's got lucky. Haven't heard of an engagement where the F1 came out on top. Got spanked by subsonic Harriers in the Faulklands war
The African bush war is heavily under taught in history classes
@Kirk Wolfe cause SA is so much better now 🤣🤣👌🤡
@Kirk Wolfe where you from kirk wolfe? Because if you are not south african you can shut up. Yes the aparteid government was pure evil no doubt but those boys who fought were conscripts forced to die in a war that that government wouldn't even acknowledge being fought. Also we are called white south africans or just south africans.
@@umlungu360 I agree with you bro. I'm so sick of non-South Africans preaching horrifically inaccurate bullshit as 'fact'
Captain Piercy's aircraft wasn't a total loss. It was repaired at the then Atlas Aircraft Corporation by using parts of another damaged aircraft, so out of two aircraft one whole one was made. The two Mig 21's in Major Rankin's second encounter both were damaged but landed and the pilots are alive and kicking. The aircraft, however, were damaged beyond repair and were both written off - I guess they didn't have an Atlas 🙂
Phew......listening to some of this stuff is a little disconcerting from a truth perspective.
The SADF & SAAF were vastly superior in every way to all opposing forces except as regards outdated aircraft & a lack of air combat spares. In that respect our excellent pilots & maintenance guys kept us as good & better than all opposing forces. The United States did screw S.A. royally as they have done with every other country they have ever been involved with/in since WWll - sadly!
Learn the truth about history if you want a future that holds true for you!
Sadly?
You're taking about Apartheid South Africa right? Lol, I don't think the world misses the loss of that deluded fascist ethno state.
Navajo guy: I wouldnt mind your criticism so much if it wasn't filled with the usual lefty language tropes seen so often lately. Much more complex than "they le ebil fascists" nonsense. Look at the state of SA now. Hard line racists on the far right are no worse than lefty out of touch do-gooders.
Thanks Kissinger for that. His idea of geopolitics didn't include smaller "irrelevant" countries like South Africa, otherwise the US would have helped when we advanced on Luanda and the war could have been over in the first month.
well said ! Mr Binkov needs to get his research sorted before faltering like this
During training we were told to just assume that Angola had air superiority. And trained accordingly
Hi, Binkov.
Would you be able to cover every air loss/air engagement during the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia, please?
You could also perhaps look at every version behind the shooting down of F-117 and perhaps come up with a logical conclusion.
That’ll be very interesting to see. You could also do that for 1991 Iraq and Libya.
"Sorry, we didnt know your jet was supposed to be invisible"
STAP WHAT YOU DOIN MA BROTHAR
WE MUST FIGHT THE MPLA
It will be quite an interesting question in my opinion. Can someone perhaps work out how much it cost the Cuban and Russian governments to fight this war?
One book i read stated the Soviet Union was pumping 3 billion USD a year (1980s values) into the conflict. For the final stages they even supplied equipment from Russia's own strategic reserves. They went all in at the end due to previous stalemates. Makes South Africa's achievement of grinding out a stalemate more remarkable due to being outnumbered and obsolete equipment in many respects.
8:40 what about Israelian's Mirage III against egyptian's MIGS ?
Might be refering to the 60s Mirage III variants vs the 70s MiG-21 MF.
The Arab armies are notorious for being unable to exploit their advantages.
The mirage is a very difficult fighter to dogfight.
Tell us more, since you obviously did it.
Not the F1. An EF-111A out maneuvered a Mirage F1.
@@prestonlee9965 Mhhh i see that u don't Know what your talking about .....
@@mudmud. All I’m saying is that an Iraqi Mirage F1 jumped an unarmed EF-111 and ended up as a maneuvering kill. If it was as good as the earlier Mirages, it would have managed to be inside the EF-111’s turn (which was only 6g instantaneous and at subsonic speed) instead of ending up outside it and into the side of a hill.
@@prestonlee9965 yeah that what im saying u don't Know what your talking about .... the f111 was not alone he was with 1 f16 and 1 f15
Why does the MPLA sounds familiar?
Black Ops 2
Stop watching this video brother we must fight the MPLA
AT 17 :45 it is incorrectly stated the mirage FI was written off. The fuselage aft section of no 206 was joined to the forward section of no 205.(written off in a landing accident in 19) and continued to fly with the SAAF.
Good video overall. The attrition rate of FAPLA/Cuban aircraft was quite high in this theater -- accidents accounting for most losses. The Stinger MANPAD provided to UNITA rebels took a hefty toll on Soviet-built aircraft too. The SA Army managed to destroy several MiG-23ML on the ground with artillery fire, and even 20mm AAA. The SAAF desperately needed better AAMs such as the Magic II and Super 530. Their old Magics and V3 Kukris were terrible AAMs.
Good point about the SA AAMs. The Mirage F1 was a decent aircraft for its day. Not top notch, but good enough for SA's operational requirements. The problem was, as you pointed out, the truly abysmal performance of its missiles. Had it been armed with more recent versions of Sidewinder (or any newer all-aspect IR AAM for that matter) its track record for AtoA would have been much different.
@@maxkronader5225 Good insights. The SAAF acquired the Israeli Python III in the late-80s as an emergency stopgap measure (AKA "V3S"). The V3S was too heavy for the wingtip pylons of the Mirage F1AZ so it was fitted on inboard wing pylons. The advanced R-Darter and A-Darter missiles came too late to help out in Angola. The Cheetah (essentially a Kfir C7/9 with updated Atar 9K engine instead of J79) would have held the fort against the Mig-23 until the Atlas Carver was ready to confront inevitable MiG-29 fighters.
Acquired AAMs were real problems for South Africa due to sanction
@@kidpagronprimsank05 South Africa didn’t have sanctions until the late 1980s early 1990s. So in the beginning of the war they didn’t have sanctions and still lost.
@@MrRight-fu1gf weapon sanctions were in 1977
Fun fact: There is a cuban popullation in Angola
We thought it's 1971 indo-pak war dude
I thought it was the Yom Kippur war.
@@Leadblast we are disappointed
bangladesh vs myanmar war who win in 2022. this video plz.
Why would bangladesh want to fight Myanmar?
@@nitinkumar29 . main reoson rohingya issue .myanmar kill 459381 rohingya muslim. myanmar has deported 11 lakh rohingya to bangladesh in 2017. myanmar is trying again to send rohingyas to bangladesh illegally by 2022
That's too soon. After 20 or 30 years it will be invaded if the military stays in power and the country is known as a failed state worldwide.
Depends who is invading who
Off to play some Wargame Red Dragon as Czech vs South Africa now. Hehehe.
Is it a mod? As a South African I'd love to play that.
i still think they need a good african army for sa to face off against. angola would be fun, but not sure they would be competitive against the other nations. someone tho...or heck doing the next game in the series but maybe involving some of the lesser powers instead of just big ones.
New Dlc bro
I was just playing as best korea yesterday
Today cuba is a sad country oppressing its own pll . Poor country
Thanks to the states
@@guyogalgalo-ie3le no that's not true. It's due to the corrupt suppressive communistic government
I am an Angolian refugee as a child refugee and please these devils called Karl Marx followers pieces of Bullocks!!!!!! So don't tell me that scum bags did all that crap!!!! They are murderers to me!!!!!!! They just killed everyone who did not follow their Bul..........
Today the USA is a sad country oppressing it's own people. Poor country.
@@guidaramalho4671as a Cuban I'm sorry for what my country did to your country
Cuba made apartheid fall (of course combined with a lot of internal and external factors). People don't even imagine the inmense political repercusions Cuito Cuanavale had!
Fidel said: "We are fulfilling an essential internationalist duty for the people of Angola"
This is provably incorrect. Cuito Cuanvale had nothing to do with the end of Apartheid. Anthea Jeffrey's book : "People's War, a new light on the struggle for Southern Africa" explains that the fall of Apartheid was caused by internal resistance and external sanctions. The Border War had almost nothing to do with it.
The communist slaughtered far people than anyone..
@@matthew1882 A huge military defeat in the last years of a authoritarian regime, combined with internal unrest and external pressure has nothing to do with the end of Apartheid? Seriously? It's the perfect storm, people in South Africa saw that the army was not invincible. And losing that fear makes rioter to become braver against the power of the State.
@@reserva120 Yes, yes. Communism bad and USA good. You're such a good boy, give me the paw!
@@mrx.9955 bro my parents lived in South Africa in the late 80s. Nobody even knew Cuito Cuanvale happened at the time because only 1000-2000 SA troops were involved.
Secondly, Cuito Cuanvale was not a South African defeat, all SA tactical objectives were achieved and loss of life was minimal. UNITA emerged stronger than ever and the MPLA/ Cubs were left humiliated. Read : Willem Steenkamps: South Africa's Border War 1966-1989 (second edition).
Binkov, pleae do AUKUS vs the EU.
Those Mig's where trash, Mig 23 Mld and Mla modification have nothing to do with regular Mig 23. Mig 23 MLA /MLD was very capable interceptor in 80s and 90s
You fight with what you have and to the extent of your abilities, it's basically the only certainty of warfare.
No? They weren't? They were MiG-23MLs which were second gen MiG-23s, and the ML was quite similar yet a bit worse than the MLA, they weren't using MiG-23MS or MiG-23M
Can you talk about how Indian mig 21 downed Pakistani F104s in 1971
Or the time pak f16 and jf17 downed Indian jets recently
@@Bigman-fh1fz IIRC Pakistani AF are well known for their skill while Indian AF rely more on superior technology. There may be a lesson in there, somewhere.
Welp in my research I found mig21 had downed four f104s, found this really cool especially when this is the most awaited event in history of aviation
@@alandope8733 well there f104s not f4s
@@Bigman-fh1fz wdym
Concerning the ground ejection of Piercy: At this time, the old ejection seat version of Mirage F1 didn't permit ejection on ground like moderns zero zero ejection seats allowed. From what I understand, the SA pilot ejected on ground and static situation, which mean no speed and no relative wind. That can explain the ejection sequence failed.
He did not eject, why should he - he was stopped and in one piece. But his seat malfunctioned and partially fired from the shock of the crash landing.
All Air to Air missiles have tiny warheads the explosive weight in missiles is no different from late 60s to present depending on missile size its the modern software radars manoeuvrability of current missiles that make the difference.
Problem was matra was a heat seeker which is suited to firing from behind the opponent. South Africa lacked radar guided missiles due to sanctions so this reduced capability of air to air. Additionally Soviets supplied Cubans with aircraft direct from their own reserves. (SAAF's Border war) They wanted a win in Angola at all costs but eventually had to realise it was a stalemate. Fidel by all accounts was a master tactician and even managed to stabilise the campaign after the pounding at the Lomba.
16:20 YOU GOT A HOLE IN YOUR RIGHT WING!
Apartheid South Africa was very _right wing_ .
@@Twirlyhead You've never played War Thunder have you? And racists exist on both sides of the political spectrum.
I refuse!
@@Battleship009 That is one of the most idiotic comments I have ever read.
@@TwirlyheadBut it's true.
Anyone interested should read the SAAF's Border War by Peter Baxter, iron fist from the sea by douw steyn and Gunship Ace by AJ Venter. It was one of the most intense theatres of the cold war with the Soviet Union billions of US dollars . SA faced 50 000 Cubans with state of the art Soviet weaponry (capturing an sa8 system which the west had never got their hands on before) and sanctions. Sanctions due to apartheid made it a very unequal war in terms of resources but SA ground out a stalemate. Some good books on the amazing 32 battalion which was a multi racial force like the Recces.
The reason South Africa was left to its own limited devices by the West while Cuba backed by massive Soviet material and technical support effectively defeated South Africa is that South Africa was an international pariah at the time due to apartheid.
Hardly a pariah at that time
@@halilzelenka5813 Absolutely a pariah at that time as it had been since the early-mid 70s with UN embargos and sanctions.
So true
@@matthew1882 That was a good thing
@@jamaltimmerman7052 History has shown ANC to be 10x worse.