I went through my garage and I have no less than 3 m90 blowers from my ssei days. My stock gen 3, my ported gen 3 from a junkyard gtp, and a gen v blower from a 05 series 3 gtp. The memories of grenading those transaxles came with it. 🤘
@@kirbyswarp Alot of them failed in winter and would start with soft slips before just refusing to go into first. I had one let go during a wide open throttle 1-2 shift. it straight up grenaded.
Long time ago an old guy at the track told me that more boost is just more heat. Richard is like the teacher we all wish we had in hs! It still amazing to me that this much knowledge is free on the internet.
The loss low down is probably due to the rotor exit porting. I remember a presentation that Volvo did on an engine conference i was at, where they did play around with that area to taylor the superchargers efficiency characteristics for their twin charge application.
i had one of these M90's bolted up to a toyota 22r Hybrid motor with lowered compression and a 600 double pumper holley on top... she was fire breather
Would be interesting to know if the intake temp was running more at the lower rpm after it was ported. Maybe it needs a stepped throttle opening to control the blower. 🙂
I'd say the blower after porting has lost some displacement to gain higher speed efficiency (air throughput). Probably where material was removed around the rotor closing/opening points within the housing and that changed their locations slightly decreasing displacement.
Just did a test on an LT4 Camaro ZL1 last week. Same tank of fuel, same pulleys, same tune, just swapped stock 2650 blower for a Kong-ported 2650. Picked up 70 hp up top. gained from 4000 rpm onward. Did lose some torque below 3000 rpm though. This was on a 427, really good cam and heads, making 4 figure hp.
@@richardholdener1727 I think it had to have. It's got a lot more entry area so at low speeds with less air velocity it just isn't filling the rotor space as well. And air velocity probably got even worse by opening it up. TBH I'm not sure I'd do it for a manual car. But for an auto trans with the right setup (this was on a 10AT ZL1) it's all positive.
typical for ported roots type of compressors. Widening the exit port changes timing akin to a 2stroke engine shifting the pump efficiency range towards higher rpm.
Blower needs more rpm now. Help recover that boost loss down lower rpm. Peak will also climb as long as heat doesn’t run away. Cooling always key on these pd blower combos. Crazy that kind of gain on such a tiny blower
Great vids Richard! Was thinking more like a K24 honda motor with a 10/71. Boost at idle at 10 psi at 2500 rpm. How much air gets bypassed vs injected into the motor and how long will the motor last "BIG BANG" style
Could you give the blower/engine drive ratio when doing these tests as it would be interesting to see just how fast the blower is spinning. A similar test with an M112 would be great too.
Okay so now what if you ran TWO ported Jokerz blowers on the 5.3 haha. Incredible stuff though, a cheap junkyard blower is cranking out almost hellcat power on the engine dyno and beating an LSA! From dealing with inline pumps on carb tanks for efi and porting some oil pumps I've learned pumps absolutely HATE inlet restriction, so if the inlet is even a bit small there could be big gains available.
In stock m90 the casting is super rough and there's probably a lip right after the throttle body. I think I can be improved a lot just smoothing I all oit
It'll all be to do with air velocities won't it? By porting the blower you remove material and make the port large. If too much bigger this will reduce air velocity but not flow. Hence the lower velocity in the lower rev range will show as a dip in torque.
Im planning running an M90 on my stock unopened BMW M54B30 at 8 to 10 psi, intercooled, would porting it be worth it if my main goal is lower intake temps or will the intercooler be enough? Goal is 350-375hp
hej richard, i want to place a ported m90 blower on my 2.0l 20v turbo volkswagen. the car have a borgwarner efr7163 t4 twinscoroll 0.80ar turbo that can do 60lbs/min and make 530hp. do you think that it going to work when i make the air intake/filter on the blower inlet and the exit of the blower into the inlet of the turbo with a watertoair intercooler in between. so i mean without valve to switch over to only turbo. is the supercharger powerfull enough to feed the turbo to its limit of 60lbs/min? max impeller speed go to 17500rpm (7400 engine rpm)
if your efr turbo will support 60 lbs/min-it should make 600 flywheel hp. The blower will be in the way and raise pressure dramatically-though it will help spool
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for youre fast response. then i go try to make a big throtle bodie in front of the turbo air intake that opens when the supercharger did the job down low in rpm.
I know it's probably one of the multitude of pulls you made, but it looks like at 5:20 you have too much timing up top as it's puffing out the exhaust from detonation....
@@richardholdener1727 gotcha... Yeah I just figured it may have been a video from one of the times you made a pull and turned the timing up like 1 degree too much in that one spot. Usually for me, that was the sign I was pushing the limits a bit too much and would back it back down.
I highschool, we made pneumatic engines. Mine ran on about 5 psi. Good tollerances and what not. Other kids sloppy nonsense would spin insanely fast. I realized how, and ported mine; now mine went even faster than his; but the low speed efficiency was gone. I'm sure the same would be observed using it as a compressor; and I'm sure there's something comparable to aggressive cams in both cases.
I'd really be interested to see how the m90 does on a stock lh6 or l33. Stock bottom end, stock 799 heads or 706s. Something most guys can find or afford.
I guess if hood clearance is not a problem, bolting on 120 ft lbs of torque and 100 hp for $500 is not bad. The M90 is bit small for such a large engine, but it is much safer to run such low boost, would be great for a DIY person.
I am a noob and extremely lacking of knowledge with this kinda stuff. Can anyone inform me of the benefit of having drilled that hole and inserting that pin where it is please. Thank you
@@richardholdener1727 ohhhh ok I get it now it locks them both together to rotate at the same rate. Thank you for replying to me very much appreciated have a good day
Blower looks comically small. Who will come up with a way to mount two in a row - one behind the other? Huge single throttle body on top of Inverted Y shaped inlet elbow, jack shaft with pulley on each end...
If you ever want to give one of your extra M90's a good home my Gen 1 3.1L Cutlass Supreme would reccover from its midlife crisis. Lol good show though.
Why not run 2 M90s? I saw a twin setup on a firebird once upon a time... One M90 is gonna make too much heat to be worth a damn on a V8 at Rpm. 2 mite be worth it
@@richardholdener1727 that is seriously impressive. Not just the HP numbers but the IATS..... The Fiero crowd loved the 3800sc and I've owned an bunch of them. Most ditched the M90 and went turbo for anything above say 500hp due to the lack decent charge cooling that would clear the deck lid. Without water/meth M90s would heat soak and start to knock and kill timing with aftermarket pullies and higher boost on the 3800. You'd really have to spin that thing to get boost on a bigger CI engine. I still think two m90s would be the way to go on a V8; especially one as potent as an LS that have heads that flow stock.
That is an overwhelming amount of effort/stuff to make 100hp. it's ~20%, but now you got that intercooler and a modified OEM blower. So you've got extra fluid leaks plus more spinning stuff. Seems like a pass for this size of engine. Doubling up on them might work, but seems like a way to destroy time compared to a 7875 VS turbo.
I went through my garage and I have no less than 3 m90 blowers from my ssei days. My stock gen 3, my ported gen 3 from a junkyard gtp, and a gen v blower from a 05 series 3 gtp. The memories of grenading those transaxles came with it. 🤘
When did they blow up? Just driving, or when doing a pull? I'm modifying my GTP at the moment.
@@kirbyswarp Alot of them failed in winter and would start with soft slips before just refusing to go into first. I had one let go during a wide open throttle 1-2 shift. it straight up grenaded.
@@kirbyswarp I've seen a Saab 5 speed swap into a gtp. Seems a much more stout unit and being manual is tons of fun
@@madmod yea the saab swap is fairly common. the g6 6 speeds i hear fit nice and hold some power aswell...another saab part i believe.
@@hellbringer09 I've heard of people using K series 6 speed fwd gearboxes too but don't know who makes the swap parts
Long time ago an old guy at the track told me that more boost is just more heat. Richard is like the teacher we all wish we had in hs! It still amazing to me that this much knowledge is free on the internet.
I'd like to see this on a 3800 and compare it to a non-ported genV to see how much gain there is. And how the 3800 responds.
M90 on a stock 4.3 vortec test if you do the 4.3! Maybe a company could build a intake set up if it shows promise!
Budget 500 hp v6!! Put in a old g body make a poor man's gnx
Please m90 the 4.3l
IKR on the 4.3L
And even the new DI 4.3l. Id b curious to swap that into my vortec s10. Still a 4.3 like the badge says.... 😂
M90 in a s10 platform would make a nice vidoe.
Custom intake with twin M90s, one for each bank and crack 1200...haha impractical but would be a cool build none the less. Love the content here!!
With the little boost that they add you probably would have to add an injector or 2 spraying M1 just to keep them cool well under 1k hp
Aston Martin used two m90s on one of their sports cars
You would be just spinning your wheels with stock heads. Any Heads can only take so much air
Didn't that junkyarddog guy start a twin m90 supercharged 302 mustang build years ago? Whatever happened to him?
@@302hobronco i think he's still working on it
Lol, you answered my question from the previous video. More displacement + Intercooler + Porting = HOW MUCH MORE POWER. Thank you Richard!
Standing next to basically a runaway is boss
Love the m90 tests 🙂 good to see such a small blower make such big gains on a healthy 5.3
The loss low down is probably due to the rotor exit porting. I remember a presentation that Volvo did on an engine conference i was at, where they did play around with that area to taylor the superchargers efficiency characteristics for their twin charge application.
I love that you do wild stuff like running without the TB! keep up the good stuff :)
I'd like to see an Atlas 5 cylinder with a M90...or 112... any Atlas motor really....
A great man once said:
"Do not, my friends, become addicted to boost. It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence!" - Immortal Joe
Can you do a 3.8 Ford V6 out of the older mustangs?
i had one of these M90's bolted up to a toyota 22r Hybrid motor with lowered compression and a 600 double pumper holley on top... she was fire breather
very cool
Hows the supercharger working with the carburetor on top, is the gas wiping the rotors and bearings. I'm thinking about doing the same
Would be interesting to know if the intake temp was running more at the lower rpm after it was ported. Maybe it needs a stepped throttle opening to control the blower. 🙂
I'd say the blower after porting has lost some displacement to gain higher speed efficiency (air throughput). Probably where material was removed around the rotor closing/opening points within the housing and that changed their locations slightly decreasing displacement.
Porting a blower will not increase or decrease displacement, it just makes it more efficient, it lost the low end grunt because is throwing less boost
Cool, cool...bring back the GLH and the 2.2!!! Really want to see how that Vizard head does and all.
Brings me back to my Gen2 Lightning days and my stegemier stage 3.
Just did a test on an LT4 Camaro ZL1 last week. Same tank of fuel, same pulleys, same tune, just swapped stock 2650 blower for a Kong-ported 2650. Picked up 70 hp up top. gained from 4000 rpm onward. Did lose some torque below 3000 rpm though. This was on a 427, really good cam and heads, making 4 figure hp.
do you think the port timing changed with the porting to show the losses down low
@@richardholdener1727 I think it had to have. It's got a lot more entry area so at low speeds with less air velocity it just isn't filling the rotor space as well. And air velocity probably got even worse by opening it up. TBH I'm not sure I'd do it for a manual car. But for an auto trans with the right setup (this was on a 10AT ZL1) it's all positive.
typical for ported roots type of compressors. Widening the exit port changes timing akin to a 2stroke engine shifting the pump efficiency range towards higher rpm.
That's interesting bc you use a sc to get power and torque down low. So porting is a good way to move the power band further up the rpms
4:00 how long did you say the belt needed to be? Yes.
I ran the belt for the dyno testing without using the alt or PS-you would want a different belt length than I used in a vehicle
Thank you for the constant Data!
🖤 Thanks Rich 🏎🐢💯
Surprised how easy that pulley drilled. I have cut down pulleys before on the lathe and had to use carbide because of how hard they were.
Neither the pulley nor the crank are very tough
Interesting testing as always!
Blower needs more rpm now. Help recover that boost loss down lower rpm. Peak will also climb as long as heat doesn’t run away. Cooling always key on these pd blower combos. Crazy that kind of gain on such a tiny blower
we had over 20K blower speed already
Interested to see what a 10/71 Blower on stock motor would make for hp, with ring gap added of course
I have a 6/71 blower on a 383 ls vid up
Great vids Richard! Was thinking more like a K24 honda motor with a 10/71. Boost at idle at 10 psi at 2500 rpm. How much air gets bypassed vs injected into the motor and how long will the motor last "BIG BANG" style
M90 4.3l, please, and I'll buy the custom intake manifold(with fuel rails)for it on $20 a week payment plan...
Could you give the blower/engine drive ratio when doing these tests as it would be interesting to see just how fast the blower is spinning.
A similar test with an M112 would be great too.
over 20K rpm on this one
Okay so now what if you ran TWO ported Jokerz blowers on the 5.3 haha. Incredible stuff though, a cheap junkyard blower is cranking out almost hellcat power on the engine dyno and beating an LSA! From dealing with inline pumps on carb tanks for efi and porting some oil pumps I've learned pumps absolutely HATE inlet restriction, so if the inlet is even a bit small there could be big gains available.
In stock m90 the casting is super rough and there's probably a lip right after the throttle body. I think I can be improved a lot just smoothing I all oit
Good thing Richard trust the Ls engine standing next to it on the dyno 😎🔥👀
it was sketchy
I think the horsepower gain is very impressive but the torque really blows my mind ! 120+ gain from 3500rpm up .
Saw a crank getting drilled earlier on Mortske repairs channel. Must be blower day!!!👍👍
What about air density? Which way delivers more cool dense air?
which way?
It'll all be to do with air velocities won't it? By porting the blower you remove material and make the port large. If too much bigger this will reduce air velocity but not flow. Hence the lower velocity in the lower rev range will show as a dip in torque.
I wonder how the M90 would do on something like a K20/24 or a Subaru N/A FA20/24.
I run it in my miata. 1.8
Well the M62 blowers on ethanol with a plate intercooler easily crack 400 whp. So with 50% more blower...
M90 all the motors! Vroom vroom 😎
Eggzactly.
Im planning running an M90 on my stock unopened BMW M54B30 at 8 to 10 psi, intercooled, would porting it be worth it if my main goal is lower intake temps or will the intercooler be enough?
Goal is 350-375hp
a bigger inlet and porting helps
Have you considered testing a ported and polished chinese turbo housing vs unmodified? I heard they choke potential in stock form
The turbo size dictates the power potential-porting would only help a little
Richard how much power do you think i would lose my using a low ram base instead of high ram
see the hi ram vs low ram video
I'm impressed
What sort of money does it cost to buy an M90 in n American wrecking yard? Wonder if i can find one that will post to Australia?
$100 OR LESS USUALLY
So what you are saying is the svo (m112) can also be ported and I should never have sold my laser red 98 GT.
any blower can be ported
hej richard,
i want to place a ported m90 blower on my 2.0l 20v turbo volkswagen.
the car have a borgwarner efr7163 t4 twinscoroll 0.80ar turbo that can do 60lbs/min and make 530hp.
do you think that it going to work when i make the air intake/filter on the blower inlet and the exit of the blower into the inlet of the turbo with a watertoair intercooler in between.
so i mean without valve to switch over to only turbo.
is the supercharger powerfull enough to feed the turbo to its limit of 60lbs/min?
max impeller speed go to 17500rpm (7400 engine rpm)
if your efr turbo will support 60 lbs/min-it should make 600 flywheel hp. The blower will be in the way and raise pressure dramatically-though it will help spool
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for youre fast response.
then i go try to make a big throtle bodie in front of the turbo air intake that opens when the supercharger did the job down low in rpm.
I'm guessing it lost power down low because jokers ported the outlet. In either case, this is one of my favorite videos you've ever done Richard.
I know it's probably one of the multitude of pulls you made, but it looks like at 5:20 you have too much timing up top as it's puffing out the exhaust from detonation....
there is no detonation-the junkyard motor has 200K miles and now near 600 dyno pulls with several hundred above 7500 rpm.
@@richardholdener1727 gotcha... Yeah I just figured it may have been a video from one of the times you made a pull and turned the timing up like 1 degree too much in that one spot. Usually for me, that was the sign I was pushing the limits a bit too much and would back it back down.
I highschool, we made pneumatic engines. Mine ran on about 5 psi. Good tollerances and what not. Other kids sloppy nonsense would spin insanely fast. I realized how, and ported mine; now mine went even faster than his; but the low speed efficiency was gone. I'm sure the same would be observed using it as a compressor; and I'm sure there's something comparable to aggressive cams in both cases.
Wait? I'm a bit confused, does the LS not have a keyed crank?
it does not
@@richardholdener1727 That seems odd to me, learn something new everyday.
I'd really be interested to see how the m90 does on a stock lh6 or l33. Stock bottom end, stock 799 heads or 706s.
Something most guys can find or afford.
its going on my LM7
20k rpm M90 on a 302 with gt40 heads and any alphabet cam.
Help us Richard Holdener, you are our only hope.
very high boost and much less power
@@richardholdener1727 of course!
My guess is more blower blow by at low rpm due to decreased surface area in blower housing
I guess if hood clearance is not a problem, bolting on 120 ft lbs of torque and 100 hp for $500 is not bad. The M90 is bit small for such a large engine, but it is much safer to run such low boost, would be great for a DIY person.
The blower doesn't know engine displacement-just flow and power
650 is pretty impressive considering i honestly didn't think it make it to the 500 mark
I am a noob and extremely lacking of knowledge with this kinda stuff. Can anyone inform me of the benefit of having drilled that hole and inserting that pin where it is please. Thank you
to stop the damper from spinning on the crank-they must spin together to drive the blower
@@richardholdener1727 ohhhh ok I get it now it locks them both together to rotate at the same rate. Thank you for replying to me very much appreciated have a good day
So what does everyone think this would do on a 6.0 with 706 heads?
does your 6.0L make more than 550 na HP?
@@richardholdener1727 i hope so😅 and i’m guessing you’re gonna say it’ll limit around the same hp
Now put a 112 blower on it!
Blower looks comically small. Who will come up with a way to mount two in a row - one behind the other? Huge single throttle body on top of Inverted Y shaped inlet elbow, jack shaft with pulley on each end...
If you ever want to give one of your extra M90's a good home my Gen 1 3.1L Cutlass Supreme would reccover from its midlife crisis. Lol good show though.
Why not run 2 M90s? I saw a twin setup on a firebird once upon a time... One M90 is gonna make too much heat to be worth a damn on a V8 at Rpm. 2 mite be worth it
We made 650 hp with 1 ported M90 and the charge temp was only 85 degrees at 7200 rpm
@@richardholdener1727 that is seriously impressive. Not just the HP numbers but the IATS..... The Fiero crowd loved the 3800sc and I've owned an bunch of them. Most ditched the M90 and went turbo for anything above say 500hp due to the lack decent charge cooling that would clear the deck lid. Without water/meth M90s would heat soak and start to knock and kill timing with aftermarket pullies and higher boost on the 3800. You'd really have to spin that thing to get boost on a bigger CI engine. I still think two m90s would be the way to go on a V8; especially one as potent as an LS that have heads that flow stock.
It would be fun to see if you turbocharged that motor if it would be more power than the supercharger.
turbo would make a lot more-see the vids where I compare blowers to turbos
Now you need a bigger crank pulley. More blower speed! More powa!!
WE ARE OVER 20k RPM NOW
@@richardholdener1727 holy crap!
BIG BANG BLOWER test!
Nice! 👍
That is an overwhelming amount of effort/stuff to make 100hp. it's ~20%, but now you got that intercooler and a modified OEM blower. So you've got extra fluid leaks plus more spinning stuff. Seems like a pass for this size of engine. Doubling up on them might work, but seems like a way to destroy time compared to a 7875 VS turbo.
YOU MISSED THE POINT OF THE EXERCISE
It wants a smaller pulley.
it's already over 20K rpm
@richardholdener1727 what's its efficiency range?
Or is it getting close to its mechanical limits?
Drop that bad boy in your Z
M90 is barely sufficient for a 3,8L
I do appreciate your test efforts. Keep it up!
we made 650 hp, so it's more than sufficient
Super turbo it now.
THAT VIDEO IS ALREADY UP ON THE 3800
For the money, I'll stick with an m122
bigger and better but more $
What a load of bs😂😂😂
Boost pressure vs air flow statement....
Don't worry-you will get there
Cant hear it ya weirdo