Shadow Priest's Utility is Too Good | Season of Discovery
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
- Hey everyone! Let's talk about shadow priest utility in season of discovery. Aggrend did a lot of tweeting last week to explain their design choices around Shadow Priest but I've cooked up some ideas on how we can make shadow even better. Will Blizzard listen?
Special thanks to @CaithlynTube for the Custom Music
Tales of a Zookeeper: • Caith - Tales Of A Zoo...
Classic Shadow Heroes: • Caith - Classic Shadow...
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Aggrend Tweets and Wowhead Posts
Class Balance: www.wowhead.com/classic/news/...
Shadow Priest Specifically: www.wowhead.com/classic/news/...
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
0:24 Aggrend's Tweets and My Response
3:40 Why Shadow Priest Utility is Different
4:16 Why Shadow Can't Have High Damage
8:40 Benefits of Changing VE and VT
9:21 Solutions
13:44 Summary
14:38 A little something extra... - เกม
That end music is still amazing. Good job Caith
this is everything
thank you
That song in the end is hilarious!
what you addressed in this video is pretty much why I quit SoD. really hoped they'd do something cool, but phase 1 was already a huge letdown and what followed after wasn't also exciting. too many pets, and fights were usually over before i could even summon all of them. the gearing is just camping the ah for greens, love it
really felt like the class i love so much is treated like an afterthought or that it's not worth their time to actually do something cool with it.
Yea I was super excited for SoD but quit before phase 1 even ended. There was just so much that I hated. I play a lot of private servers that are vanilla+ and I was just disappointed that blizzard couldn't make a better version of V+ than a small group of devs who just love the game.
Spriest feels better in Cata besides the troll orbs on pull sometimes. No shot I would ever play Spriest in classic/SoD versions again. I have learned my lesson when classic came out. Reroll shaman/hunter/mage. I do love the idea but I would be shocked to see a rework this late into the game. The song at the end is hilarious btw. Well done sir.
Agreed. Pretty happy with shadow in cata and after these statements by Aggrend have no desire to return to SoD. It's just not fun to me to be a utility bot only, want to do some damage as well but clearly, shadow isn't the right pick for that in SoD.
Thank you! You can find more songs at my youtube channel, there is even a song for cataclysm troll orbs :')
Great idea with decoupling support from total damage! sod offers sooo much potential to not walk the same path as we did for so many years in vanilla and classic + tbc
Should have been done a long time ago for retail as it could have showed players the value of support without getting rid of most of it. Would be nice if they would try it, but dont know how hard it is to split the calculations/code so you could actually filter the numbers with addons etc. Raidlogs in FF14 for example are this way and its great, this way you could actually track how much your buffs or whatever contributed and improve on in which is impossible to track in wow.
Would also be great for retail as Evoker has a pure support spec, again with no way see how good you are doing other than guessing how much more dmg everyone is doing compared to not having you.
I support this idea but i gave up on the skill = dps dream long ago. At this point im more looking forward being unkillable in pvp and hard carrying the higher heat lvls.
I like your proposed ideas, and see the value there. But i also think shadow will be so cracked if they dont decouple the utility that as a player who does a bit of everything im def happy with the direction the sod team came up with too
Aggrend and his team need to see this
not gonna make a difference mate
You mean to say that simply stacking shadow priests in full fire resistence gear to beat high heat levels because that gives you stupid level of raidhealing is probably a unnecessary mistake that should be avoided??
Your only mistake here would be the fire resist just have enough stam tbh
Unless you're full resisting its more than likely the throughput from stats will outpace resist unless the damage is mythic levels of one shot
@@Wickedincarnate not the green shadow res, "of shadow resistance" stuff. The blue craftables that are tradeable.
Great video. Thanks for being an advocate for us shadow priests🙌
When will we implement this? 😮
Holy production quality on the come up typical pants W
I remember joking in raid when gnomer was out, "why not bring 2 shadow priests so we can just bring 1 healer." Now imagine just bringing 4 spriests and 1 holy pally (for tanks). I think arcane has a similar problem (more dmg you do more healing you do) and i think for arcane all they really need is more dmg on their talents but also just a rune on helm where increases dmg by 40% but reduces healing by 80%. I think they should do that for spriest but when in Shadow form, if you're doing lets say 2kdps, instead of it being 600hps per person it'd be 120hps, which is still a solid amount of healing x5. Also spriest doesn't look too bad right now on ptr, a reason why it felt so bad being a caster is because the bosses were lvl 52 so melee were able to whack them, but with lvl 63 and with pretty much all casters other than lock being hit capped, i think casters will feel better.
Great videos
really good points i really hope we're heard
Can we get the song as a dedicated upload ,
Also please can we ask them to make dispersion and our aoe to be baseline not a rune.
It seems every caster has been deemed to be support for fire mage and tank warlock.
Couldn't have put it better
Really nice solutions. Hope devs hear this feedback. Now that we know devs have the ability to easily change talents more, they should tweak shadow more
thanks for fighting for us. will be waiting with great anticipation of the blizz response on this video for the next two weeks. after that, i'll prob cancel my 14 year old sub, as i assume they will just ignore it
Lol I can’t argue with that. Hopefully something gets done
I miss old shadowform
Martyr is based on dmg done as well, although its getting the nerfbat because... Shamans.
ah true. I thought it was only based on damage the paladin took not realizing that was tied to the damage of the spell
@@Pants_Gaming All good thanks for the response and the video. I think trying to compare yourself to other classes is futile. Blizzard has never balanced classes well enough to give you a shot at a relative close playing field. I mean shaman's have the most utility in the game AND mana back, still topping dps meters. At least PTR is looking good for Spriest, Maybe convince them to let you mindflay on the move so you wreck all the other casters on movement fights. (shh don't talk about pvp)
I know it’s probably futile. But if I don’t try then it’s even more futile
I love that you love shadow as much as I do. Aggrend hates shadow priests. That’s why I will never go back to SoD or any vanilla based server. I’ll stick to Cata and retail where they give a fuck about our dmg. No one gives a fuck about VE or mass dispel. No one picks shadow to be like, “oh baby look how much mama I give back and look at all my passive heals from my trash dps” Give me a fucking break.
I've made suggestions regarding Shadow Priests to the team many times. I really do not think they care about the class. I will make one last post before I really start to shy away from the game as the Spriest is something I have played as a main since OG Beta. I stopped playing just into Wrath and I have consistently been considered a novelty class. In saying that, I find it incredibly insulting how they refuse to let the Season of Discovery theme grace our shadowy bodies. Many classes have seen major overhauls and complete gameplay rotation changes. A stigma of being pure ranged DPS suddenly went to the outlandish Melee DPS such as the hunter. Shaman furthers this insulting feeling as it is also considered a utility class. If Season of Discovery is meant to breed new life and entirely new gameplay elements into each class, why not the Spriest?
My suggestion is to let us do something have never really been able to do. Stop pigeonholing us into MORE of a utility class with all these terribly designed and thought out pets. Not to mention them just dipping into the bag of future expansions and giving us MORE utility spells that we are familiar with. Simply let us DPS. Stop with the utility and the clumsy, spammy frost bolt style rotation. Think about it, do we NEED the VE for our groups or raids? No. Most of the time, every healer that I have played with gets bored as there is nothing to heal. That only gets more likely with gear. Next, do we NEED mana regen? No. Most classes find ways to manage their mana and in recent patches they have fixed those issues with runes or rune changes. Nix them from the game or rework them. Increase our damage and let us scale. Let us DISCOVER a new Shadow Priest in Season of Discovery... PLEASE. I see all these other classes get to try so many cool things and experience sweeping changes. Some of which are also considered "Utility". Hell, even tanks are bypassing this logic by destroying every DPS. Should a tank just be about mitigation and following its role, just like we are expected to do?
Yet, for some reason, they will not and can not let this go with our class. I am so very disappointed in all of this. I hate the pets, I hate being a buff-bot. I hate being considered a responsibility character. I want to just DPS for once in the classic universe of WoW.
Sorry but I gotta disagree with your ideas of decoupling of VT/VE from dmg. I see the arising problems you so well described. But I do really like the tbc Version of VT. I like that me being "skilled" (dot uptime, dmg) gives my mates more mana and healing. I am enabling them via my Support. And if you really like a dot heavy dd class let them make affliction good. This is the first step towards homogenization. I Like your Analysis of the Situation but i just have so strongly disagree on that particular part at least for myself. I get a lot of fun out of being a 99 parsing shadow priest and knowing that my Group has one of the best manareturns Overall. I like being brought for me being a good Player and not just for bringing replenishment.
there's no skill in maintaining dots. With Pain and Suffering dots are up 100% of the time on a single target encounter after being applied a single time
@@Pants_Gaming I know, but that makes the whole situation even worse :P No fun and skillful dot management and blanket replenishment.
@@SkornBB yes, the blanket replenishment is something that felt horrible at first, when changed from TBC to WOTLK. cause you feel like you have lost everthing you stand for in pve. but thats only cause it was terrible design to begin with. im speaking from a design standpoint regarding character progression. lets say everyone starts out auf 100% power in the beginning of a TBC raidtier, every dps end up at 150% at the end of that raid tier cause of their increase in stats which they scale from. a shadow only end up at 120% power at the end of the tiere. so its spiraling out of control with every raid tier. thats just terrible design, to have your own character progression throttled with this concept. you can still make good system which rewards knowledge and gameplay to improve your support, without having it be coupled directly to your dps.
@@CaithlynTube i agree with you on this part. But it needs to be both Things simultaneously. If we get sth like replenishment we need other Form of skill expression and "put up 3 dots and hardcast forever" is not it. I see the potential dependencies between mind Spike, mindblast and Set improved mindflay. But dot rotation is fun. And with Blizzard i fear that the worst Thing could Happen: replenishment and no skill expression and in this Moment its most of the time really "lets get any one shadow for replenishment" and call it a Day.
the new pain and suffering rune is absolutely problematic in its current form, just not the topic of this video. I see the strength of VE as a higher priority issue than pain and suffering
Well said, changes of this nature is a must or another huge chunk of shadow priests will stop playing
Holy shit that song at the end… DEAD. 😅
Hopefully blizzard does something other than sit on their hands. I’m not holding my breath for my spriest… 😢
They gotta do something to let us scale from gear and WBs more, and nerf VE if they must, and all these suggestions seems pretty bulletproof.
As a hunter I have no match with a shadow priest. I get a line of dots , then he uses dispersion and I'm dead.
In phase 2 it was okay because I could 2 shot him before he can put his dots , but with damage mitigation ...
To balance things , maybe chimera shot with serpent dot could drain life for exemple , would give us a match VS all other class we can't deal with. Shaman is a no match neither , paladin is insanely tough too.
If you're logs are based in comparison to others of your spec, your utility makes you desirable to bring to raid, and your class naturally performs better in pvp, what's the issue? Why are you upset with the state of the class? You aren't at the top of the meter but you don't experience any of the downsides of lower DPS. You still pump in pvp and you still get invited to the raid, you also still get to feel good about your parses. I'm curious why you would go thru the effort to make this video when you aren't experiencing any noticeable detriments.
in simplest terms: because it's a terrible design and not fun to play
God I miss pants streams 😞
thinking about bringing them back in some capacity
I feel like an easy fix is to just increase shadow priest damage and make vamp embrace reduce shadow damage by 30% or so.
I think shadows in a good spot tbh. I think all it needs is minor dmg buffs and thats it.
The real issue is green shadow dmg gear being our bis kekw
you dont get it. the gap grows bigger from week to week with terrible scaling issues. do you really want the devs to slap on +15% dmg each phase to shadowform?
is that a great concept of designing a class?
Every shadow priest I see in pvp pisses me off when we have no healers
Every warrior/rogue/hunter/boomkin/warlock/frostmage/firemage/retripala/protpala/enhanceshaman/eleshaman I see in pvp pisses me off when we have no healers. why cant they reroll to a healing class so only i can enjoy the game?
smh ...
Its just season of shaman, hunter, warrior and boomie, no reason to play anything else
lol hunter that has been nerfed more than any class and always finishes middle of the pack. You mean warrior, 1 button rogue, SP, lock mage
Waiting for Cata videos 😢
what do you want to see? cata is raid log city for me atm
@@Pants_Gaming probably some guides how to parse or something like that/ how to master dps as shadow priest. Back in the days you had lots of videos about WotLK bosses, how to parse, how to gear, some useful WA’s, tips and tricks etc. Anyway mate, I appreciate your content and like it very much :)
Just remember great WotLK days watching your videos and streams, talking to you how to master shadow priest, all the stuff and doing 99 parses with you.
Fair point! I was trapped in ICC/playing SoD for so long that I forgot about those videos. I'll work on bringing those back in the next few weeks
I quit SoD because I rolled a Rogue to PVP and everything they've done either counters Rogues or ignores Rogue in PVP and focuses on PVE instead. Every change they've done to Rogue is for PVE. The only PVP stuff for them has been Between the Eyes and Quick Draw, so basically no changes since Season 1 if you PVP. Like what? That's unacceptable to me, thus I quit. This is on top of them adding a global PVP damage reduction and changing the value of it every week, so I have no idea if I can kill anyone on a week per week basis. One week I'm one shotting people, the next I can't kill anything. Season of F PVPers.
The only people still playing Rogues are people who raid. No one who PVPed on a Rogue in WoW is gonna endure this no Cloak of Shadows bullcrap. Vanish might as well not be a button in SoD.
still imba class