I'm definitely late to the party here . I tried years ago welding cast with stick . What I've learnt over the years is to grind out as much as you can to get a deeper weld area and better penetration and a bigger amount of weld , heat up before and obviously during to keep at a certain temperature but to cool it slowly using a heat blanket and covering in dry sand to slow the cooling down as much as possible . It may only be a small item but if it loses heat quickly it has more chance to crack and not necessarily in the same place . Looking at the comments it seems to have held .
A welder taught me 40 years ago how to arc weld cast iron... Get hot with torch... arc weld a little/peen.. arc weld a little/peen.. arc weld a little/peen.... Next time peen it a little with the point of a welding hammer while it is hot.. heat it up hot as possible with the torch too and give it some more peening.. relieves stress.
At my work (ship engineer) we sometimes use stainless wire and stacking 3 dimes when welding cast-iron - all tough it's some heavy stuff it stays together through hard abuse at sea
Gas welding tanks are getting crazy expensive where i live to refill, so i treated myself to a free toaster oven from the dump, lol. It goes up to 450 freedom degrees, and ive had good luck pre-post heating with that. I just fixed a busted cast iron shifter fork in a $600 backhoe, took like an hour, including r&r, and now my backhoe ja worth like $3500. So i made $2900/hr, lol. Now to solder up the rad-e-ator, and put a motor off an old jeep starter onto the bendix from the backhoe cause a cup of rust dust fell out of it when i opened it up. Then just about 20 hydraulic hoses to make and im done, lol.
I've had some lousy luck with those aftermarket Chinesium starters on my TO-30. Ended up ditching it and tracking a couple Original Delco-Remy ones that I used to build one good one from parts. As far as the welding, It can be a bit of a crap shoot working with that old cast iron. I have had luck with the mig in the past but did not pre-heat. Never tried arc welding it but I have seen where 7018 rods have been used with some success. I have brazed an old ferguson carburetor body where the flange tab broke off. I think if I had the torch out I would have gone ahead and just brazed it, but that's just me. Hope it doesn't seem I am being critical of your method, just making chit chat. Appreciate you taking the time to video your experience working with it. Glad to read that it is holding up well.
Thanks for the comment! I thought about braising it but wasn’t sure of the strength as braising is a bit softer than the Mig. For a carb flange I could see it working well as there is not much force on the flange. Luckily it’s still going strong and I try not to bump the shifter into start anymore hahaha!!
@@longsspeed My personal opinion having worked with it is that the Bronze Brazing gets its strength from the fact that it penetrates and permeates the cast in a way that welding simply doesn't. Weld is stronger in itself, no doubt about that but I kind of think of it like welding that stuff is alot like wood gluing a joint. the glue is stronger than the base material so next time it breaks, it is almost like a new break near the repair. I feel like the softer Bronze filler gives the part a ductile quality that makes it less likely to break again. (makes sense in my head) But I am far from a metallurgist, just a guy on the internet with an opinion LOL. The carb has held up well. of Course it helped putting a fresh float valve in while rebuilding it. the trauma was caused by my own stupidity and laziness. lightly tapping a carb to get the needle to seat can quickly turn into getting too rough with it if you aren't careful and you get in a hurry so I feel you there!. Anyhow, Great talking with you! glad we have a forum where handy people can trade tips and keep these old tractors working! I have an old cast iron bench that i'll be welding on this weekend for the wife, think I might try the Nickel Arc rods from tractor Supply this time just to get a feel for how those work. It's the "Right" way to do it according to the internet (although it seems more practical that the right way is the one that works, whatever it is).
I've found a lot of old tractors that were converted to 12volt will sustain damage to the starter nose cone like that as the 6volt starter is running at twice the speed as was intended.
I have a cast exhaust fan for the world up just wondering did you use regular flex big weld? I only have a small home welder no gas. I wonder if it would work
I used mig gas. I’m not sure what it will do. But I’d try it. I’d grind it out a bit and make sure it’s clean. Use a propane torch to preheat it and go for it!
grandfather heated the piece and peined it after welding to slightly stretched the metal while it is cooling back down. hope your weld lasts many years.
since the crack went from one hole to another, there is no place for the crack to continue after welding. what happens if you mig weld a casting that is going to heat up where the casting and weld will likely expand at different rates? then suppose the weld must also seal against water or oil; is it going to start leaking at some point?
Probably would. I believe it’s recommended to use a softer weld material like braze rod when doing something like an engine block. But I’d still try to mig weld it. Just grind it out as best you can to sink the weld in deeper.
@@longsspeedit’s nickel not brass. Which has the same expansion rate yet is harder than iron. Use nickel rod. And grind out almost entire crack so the weld will be filling large area trof.
Welding isn't the problem it's the cooling after the weld. Also I wouldn't recommend MIG welding this is definitely stick if you want to hold and they make a alloy for cast repair. Personally I would use stick but before I did any welding, I would pack it with sand and get it a hell of a lot hotter than what you did here. On top of that I would have a bucket of hot sand to drop it in after to allow it to cool at the same rate. I sincerely doubt that this repair would last very long. There is more to metal and welding different materials than sticking them together.
Crown Alloys MIG wire for cast even bonds cracked exhaust manifolds. Try a roll. My pro machinistbros repair a lot of old cast industrial machinery and quite like it. (Needs argon, not MIG mix).
first drill holes at the very end of the cracks then ground out a grove in the crack first then welded up the seam one good way to heat it up is with a Barbecue heat up workpiece in a 500 to 600 degrees and let it gradually cool down after welding by placing the workpiece in an oven if all possible and gradually cool down work piece.
Sorry mate but you are halr correct. You need to be heating it to red hot temp. glowing red almost whit to do any good. cool it slowly, even place into a hot oven or place it in sand. It will crack otherwise. and if you use stick welder you can buy and use cast welding rods. And please STOP welding like that. That's crap.. up the amps and get the heat into it. Heat is your friend in this type of welding and continuous welding. not that TH-cam Chinese tack welding
Locally overheating cast iron is a critical mistake. You want the heat to soak evenly in between bursts, that is why it's often done like this. Too much heat causes a single area to expand without the material around it catching up. This creates stress, tension, pressure whatever we want to call it.
I think the important part is that it’s not a shock to the metal the initial Burt’s of heat from the Mig. From cold to hot. So as hot as you can get it before you start welding.
Not shocking the metal is Probably best yeah, But for those that were still curious on the temp and judging by the colors I'd say roughly between 575 and 800 Degrees Fahrenheit
This iis the question I've been wondering, I'll find out next week as I've been given a large cast iron dome which I plan to turn in to pizza oven but there is welding to be done but if it doesn't work I'll drill holes and bolt the the thing I'm making .
Electric welding of cast iron is possible but the process turns the weld joint area from gray cast to white cast. If machine work is required such as threading the machinist won't like you.
Funny how people who've never tried something, know that it can't be done. Forums are the worst. I ask the question, "Has anyone ever ___________?" only to have some feauxpert tell me I can't. I want to yell back., "THAT WASN'T THE QUESTION!"
My opinion is that if it’s welded correctly you don’t need to drill a hole. If I weld 2 pieces together I don’t drill a hole at one end or in a corner.
Very poorly done. Must V out the crack before welding. NI rod works best for cast-iron. After welding cast, put the part in a bucket of sand and cover it. Must cool slowly.
I'm definitely late to the party here . I tried years ago welding cast with stick . What I've learnt over the years is to grind out as much as you can to get a deeper weld area and better penetration and a bigger amount of weld , heat up before and obviously during to keep at a certain temperature but to cool it slowly using a heat blanket and covering in dry sand to slow the cooling down as much as possible . It may only be a small item but if it loses heat quickly it has more chance to crack and not necessarily in the same place .
Looking at the comments it seems to have held .
A welder taught me 40 years ago how to arc weld cast iron... Get hot with torch... arc weld a little/peen.. arc weld a little/peen.. arc weld a little/peen.... Next time peen it a little with the point of a welding hammer while it is hot.. heat it up hot as possible with the torch too and give it some more peening.. relieves stress.
Heating it again after the welding is a MUST !!!
He did by putting the second pass on - sort of. Research temper bead welding.
By heating again, does that reduce the stress?
At my work (ship engineer) we sometimes use stainless wire and stacking 3 dimes when welding cast-iron - all tough it's some heavy stuff it stays together through hard abuse at sea
Gas welding tanks are getting crazy expensive where i live to refill, so i treated myself to a free toaster oven from the dump, lol. It goes up to 450 freedom degrees, and ive had good luck pre-post heating with that. I just fixed a busted cast iron shifter fork in a $600 backhoe, took like an hour, including r&r, and now my backhoe ja worth like $3500. So i made $2900/hr, lol. Now to solder up the rad-e-ator, and put a motor off an old jeep starter onto the bendix from the backhoe cause a cup of rust dust fell out of it when i opened it up. Then just about 20 hydraulic hoses to make and im done, lol.
I've had some lousy luck with those aftermarket Chinesium starters on my TO-30. Ended up ditching it and tracking a couple Original Delco-Remy ones that I used to build one good one from parts. As far as the welding, It can be a bit of a crap shoot working with that old cast iron. I have had luck with the mig in the past but did not pre-heat. Never tried arc welding it but I have seen where 7018 rods have been used with some success. I have brazed an old ferguson carburetor body where the flange tab broke off. I think if I had the torch out I would have gone ahead and just brazed it, but that's just me. Hope it doesn't seem I am being critical of your method, just making chit chat. Appreciate you taking the time to video your experience working with it. Glad to read that it is holding up well.
Thanks for the comment! I thought about braising it but wasn’t sure of the strength as braising is a bit softer than the Mig. For a carb flange I could see it working well as there is not much force on the flange. Luckily it’s still going strong and I try not to bump the shifter into start anymore hahaha!!
@@longsspeed My personal opinion having worked with it is that the Bronze Brazing gets its strength from the fact that it penetrates and permeates the cast in a way that welding simply doesn't. Weld is stronger in itself, no doubt about that but I kind of think of it like welding that stuff is alot like wood gluing a joint. the glue is stronger than the base material so next time it breaks, it is almost like a new break near the repair. I feel like the softer Bronze filler gives the part a ductile quality that makes it less likely to break again. (makes sense in my head) But I am far from a metallurgist, just a guy on the internet with an opinion LOL. The carb has held up well. of Course it helped putting a fresh float valve in while rebuilding it. the trauma was caused by my own stupidity and laziness. lightly tapping a carb to get the needle to seat can quickly turn into getting too rough with it if you aren't careful and you get in a hurry so I feel you there!. Anyhow, Great talking with you! glad we have a forum where handy people can trade tips and keep these old tractors working! I have an old cast iron bench that i'll be welding on this weekend for the wife, think I might try the Nickel Arc rods from tractor Supply this time just to get a feel for how those work. It's the "Right" way to do it according to the internet (although it seems more practical that the right way is the one that works, whatever it is).
Ya your idea behind the braising does make sense! Good luck with the project.
A bunch of tac welds usually don't hold either. Need to lay a proper bead for proper penetration.
Nicely done. Thanks for sharing.
Andy 🇨🇦
I've found a lot of old tractors that were converted to 12volt will sustain damage to the starter nose cone like that as the 6volt starter is running at twice the speed as was intended.
I have a cast exhaust fan for the world up just wondering did you use regular flex big weld? I only have a small home welder no gas. I wonder if it would work
I used mig gas. I’m not sure what it will do. But I’d try it. I’d grind it out a bit and make sure it’s clean. Use a propane torch to preheat it and go for it!
is it still holding up? about how much stress does this part go under?
Well it holds the gear straight to a fair amount. Yes it’s still working.
@@longsspeed cheers mate, just snapped off a gearbox mount on an engine block and want to tackle it with my mig. great video 🤙
grandfather heated the piece and peined it after welding to slightly stretched the metal while it is cooling back down. hope your weld lasts many years.
since the crack went from one hole to another, there is no place for the crack to continue after welding. what happens if you mig weld a casting that is going to heat up where the casting and weld will likely expand at different rates? then suppose the weld must also seal against water or oil; is it going to start leaking at some point?
Probably would. I believe it’s recommended to use a softer weld material like braze rod when doing something like an engine block. But I’d still try to mig weld it. Just grind it out as best you can to sink the weld in deeper.
@@longsspeedit’s nickel not brass. Which has the same expansion rate yet is harder than iron. Use nickel rod. And grind out almost entire crack so the weld will be filling large area trof.
What type of wire have you used?
Just regular 030 mig wire
Nice video imma try this on a small gear that’s cast steel.
Welding isn't the problem it's the cooling after the weld. Also I wouldn't recommend MIG welding this is definitely stick if you want to hold and they make a alloy for cast repair.
Personally I would use stick but before I did any welding, I would pack it with sand and get it a hell of a lot hotter than what you did here. On top of that I would have a bucket of hot sand to drop it in after to allow it to cool at the same rate.
I sincerely doubt that this repair would last very long. There is more to metal and welding different materials than sticking them together.
It’s lasted 2 years and still going.
Crown Alloys MIG wire for cast even bonds cracked exhaust manifolds. Try a roll. My pro machinistbros repair a lot of old cast industrial machinery and quite like it. (Needs argon, not MIG mix).
Thanks for the tip!
first drill holes at the very end of the cracks then ground out a grove in the crack first then welded up the seam one good way to heat it up is with a Barbecue heat up workpiece in a 500 to 600 degrees and let it gradually cool down after welding by placing the workpiece in an oven if all possible and gradually cool down work piece.
Sorry mate but you are halr correct. You need to be heating it to red hot temp. glowing red almost whit to do any good. cool it slowly, even place into a hot oven or place it in sand. It will crack otherwise. and if you use stick welder you can buy and use cast welding rods. And please STOP welding like that. That's crap.. up the amps and get the heat into it. Heat is your friend in this type of welding and continuous welding. not that TH-cam Chinese tack welding
Locally overheating cast iron is a critical mistake. You want the heat to soak evenly in between bursts, that is why it's often done like this. Too much heat causes a single area to expand without the material around it catching up. This creates stress, tension, pressure whatever we want to call it.
@kentowakai1234 i guess so, fast cooling makes a material harder but brittle, the opposite applies with a slow cooling
Did it work ?
yup on the tractor and working well
@@longsspeed hey, great to hear :) good job
What is your welder set on?
My question is if is rod electrode has to be. AB or DC. Thanks
I wasn’t stick welding I was mig welding. Regular steel mig set up
Thanks !!!
any idea how hot the preheat is?
I think the important part is that it’s not a shock to the metal the initial Burt’s of heat from the Mig. From cold to hot. So as hot as you can get it before you start welding.
Not shocking the metal is Probably best yeah, But for those that were still curious on the temp and judging by the colors I'd say roughly between 575 and 800 Degrees Fahrenheit
Was it stainless steel wire or mig wire
Regular Mig wire. 030
What mig wire did you use?
Just regular mig wire .030
Thanks I’m going to try it
Do you think you could use a flux core wire with no gas?
Flux core can cause holes and Because cast is so porous I don’t know that I’d try it.
This iis the question I've been wondering, I'll find out next week as I've been given a large cast iron dome which I plan to turn in to pizza oven but there is welding to be done but if it doesn't work I'll drill holes and bolt the the thing I'm making .
I was wondering what Wig Welding was.
Out of 23,000 views you are the first one to point that out. Hahaha
That weld is all sitting on the surface, I doubt that spot welding technique would've penetrated 16ga steel sheet.
Well it’s still holding up just fine
Electric welding of cast iron is possible but the process turns the weld joint area from gray cast to white cast. If machine work is required such as threading the machinist won't like you.
remember to slow cool in sand if ya can..nice job..
You need to grove out the crack more. Use a high NI rod.
Funny how people who've never tried something, know that it can't be done.
Forums are the worst. I ask the question, "Has anyone ever ___________?" only to have some feauxpert tell me I can't. I want to yell back., "THAT WASN'T THE QUESTION!"
late to the party...On a crack would yaa drill a hole on the crack line to help stop it from doing it again..or not really needed..?
My opinion is that if it’s welded correctly you don’t need to drill a hole. If I weld 2 pieces together I don’t drill a hole at one end or in a corner.
i would;then weld the hole shut first.
Should have peened them welds while hot to reduce stress
Very poorly done. Must V out the crack before welding. NI rod works best for cast-iron. After welding cast, put the part in a bucket of sand and cover it. Must cool slowly.
MMA rods are best for cast
So use a completely different method then the video title? It’s fix with MIG not fix with stick
@306motovlogs5 well it’s still working on the tractor. So you be the judge.
So ya tryed put a pencil behind your ear get a 2x4 and try that sooner or later youll find sumthin yer good at
I would add this one thing I have also been told. Let it cool slow, wrap it with rock wool. Insulation to a aniel it.
What kind of wire and gas are you using?
Regular mixed Mig gas. I think it’s 75-25 argon CO2
Oh and regular steel Mig wire. .030 size