Is this new Plumbing PTC connection BETTER than a Sharkbite?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ม.ค. 2020
- In this episode, I'm going to give you a rundown of all the latest Push to Connect fittings available in 2020 including a brand new one from Legend Valve who sponsored today's video.
• SharkBite Fittings - A... "Sharkbite Fittings - Awesome or a failure waiting to happen?"
Learn more about Legend Valve Smart Click here:
www.legendvalve.com/pws1/smart...
Legend Valve on Instagram: / legendvalve
Follow Matt on Instagram! / risingerbuild
or Twitter / mattrisinger
Huge thanks to our Show sponsors Polywall, Huber, Dorken Delta, Prosoco, Rockwool & Viewrail for helping to make these videos possible! These are all trusted companies that Matt has worked with for years and trusts their products in the homes he builds. We would highly encourage you to check out their websites for more info.
www.Poly-Wall.com
www.Dorken.com
www.Huberwood.com
www.Prosoco.com
www.Viewrail.com
www.Rockwool.com
I am not a licensed plumber, but have done a bit of remodeling in the house me and my wife purchased 3 years ago. I also owned a double wide modular home, and have done extensive plumbing work for an ex-landlord for well over 20 years. During my time with repairing, remodeling, or installing fresh water lines I have always used shark bites since their debut and have been very pleased with their versatility, durability, and longevity. I have had only a few issues with them not connecting fully or just a bad connector in general. I layed new water lines in the floor for my wifes mom before purchasing the home from her and over the winter before moving in, there was no electricity for the heat, I live in NY so we get real cold winters and this one was no exception, one week of below zero temps and the lines did indeed freeze. The PCPV pipes I used as well as the shark bite connectors held with no issues, the remaining copper lines all but burst, cracked, or the joints that were welded all snapped apart. All the products shown here are very useful, some better than others. If I built a brand new house, I wouldn't be afraid or worried about using them.
Old brittle Copper keeps plumbers busy. I understand that Sharkbite has been used in the commercial industry for over 25 years.
@@kimariokiji Push to fit fittings have existed that long, but not Shark Bite.
I renovated my 106yr old Victorian in 05 and used the Sharkbites on a quick fix to supply heat to my basement cast iron radiators. 15yrs ago. I’m impressed.
I'm an Electrician by trade. I think the Unwritten rule in plumbing is the "Fifteen Year Rule". Usually we find products that hit the market after 15 or so years if they're good or bad products. Here in Central Florida many plumbing contractors are banning the use of CPVC. The local news did a clip about how the CPVC's glue is failing and causing leaks already 15 or so years later. Contractors locally now are only running copper or Pex. Period. Just my 2 cents. I personally like Sharkbite fittings and have used them for years. God bless.
Exactly !! big problem in MN, CPVC hot lines get real brittle after only a year, fittings crack at mold seams, Not great in a commercial application all pipe repairs need to be done at night due to the dry time on the glue, Plumbers get double time for night work so more expenses for service work, I only put in sweat copper type L with canfield solder or Uponor PEX only.--- pro press also uses o-rings, and guys are using it on type M copper, which you are not supposed to do. water eats rubber before metal, unless electrolysis or ph issues.
Yeah almost everything is pex now. Sharkbites are a no go in the plumbing business though. The cost is wayyyyyyyyy too high. Unless its just a small quick fix shark bites are never used in my company.
I hate CPVC.. my house is almost 15 years old and it’s plumbed with CPVC.. it’s not to a brittle state yet, but I’m hoping to not be living here before it becomes an issue.
Cpvc should be banned nationwide.
@@perfectlygoodslouch5212 glue takes 10 min to set up
65 year old house. Solder copper everywhere. So far Sharkbite has helped me through every project. Fast, clean and so far all fittings even from over 10 years ago dry as a bone. No leaks and tie ins and build ons have been a breeze.
You are one of the lucky ones then, plumbing almost 40 years and not one Shark bite has ever worked.
@@dank.459: Perhaps you should’ve considered another career, lol.
@@dank.459 Might be time to find a new job. If you can't get a sharkbite to work you might be too dumb to do anything. late 90s, had a pin hole leak in crawl space of ski resort condo. We gently sanded the outside of the copper. got all the tools ready. Turned the water off, cut the pipe in 2 spots, entire building of water poured out while we cut pushed in a shark bite valve. Turned the water back on, guest service didn't got a single call. We expected some calls about air in the line but we were so fast no one noticed. Went back before the spring of the lock down. Sure enough the valve we put in was still there and 0 signs of failure or leaking. Sharkbites won't last forever but they will out most sweat connections. Especially ones that are done in a hurry. The resort which manged 43 condo building official policy is to only use push in connectors and Pex b products to do repairs. ironically new building are often have to put int he same crappy sweat copper per code.
@@rayray8687he probably didn’t prep the pipe lmao.
I have done a lot of plumbing; especially re-model plumbing in commercial and residential buildings over the years and Shark Bites can save your butt on occasion. I have used them even above textured ceilings for copper repair; however it's best to use a regular 1/2 or 3/4 inch brass compression union - they simply will not fail and they can be disconnected to drain if necessary w/o any degradation in sealing ability.
Recently, I did extensive remodel/new on a 3 million dollar house - I was not the prime heating contractor but I did switch out and temporarily re-route the existing hot water system while the new construction was being integrated into the existing. Shark Bites made the job so much less labor intensive especially considering it was a short term arrangement.
What totally surprised me is that the primary hot water heating contractor used Shark Bites in 90% of his installation beginning immediately out of the brass manifolds. He claimed that he had no problems in all the jobs he had done and that it was an accepted practice.
I have used many shark bites when necessary and have reused many. With PEX you don’t need inserts, it is stiff enough. First time I heard of legend making these, but they look like an excellent product. I have never had a problem with shark bites, but as a plumbing contractor I have reservations about concealing in walls, even though they were recently approved by our plumbing code
Great video - really good job. I have used Sharktbite connectors extensively and I have never had a failure. I now use them almost exclusively for most connections. I used Sharkbite connectors for my EXTERIOR water service connection at the house in Arizona, where the temperature gets over 115 F degrees in the shade. I originally thought I would replace it with a soldered pipe installation, but it has been well over six years and I have never had a problem. I also found out that Sharkbite connectors are rated for both exterior use and inside wall connections. So I intend to leave them in place to see how long they last. They appear to be as durable as soldered connections in my experience.
I just installed Sharkbite connectors for my waterline connection to my refrigerator after the valve failed and flooded my living room. Using Sharkbites connectors saved me a ton of time. I had to cut out the old soldered connectors because the original plumber soldered in a threaded connection to the valve for some reason I cannot fathom because the valve was not screwed onto the threaded connection like it should have been (it was soldered on).
I realize there is some risk and I am in a sense making my home the testing facility for Sharkbite connections. But to date, not one of these connections has leaked or failed in any manner. It appears that they are just as durable as soldered connections and we know that even soldered connections can fail. So I will continue to use them and watch how they perform. When I replace my hot water heater, I will again use Sharkbite connectors.
Those Legend fittings look awesome, love to see you do another pressure testing video.
PE-RT tubing and pipe are sold in coils and straight lengths. Definition: PE-RT is a polyethylene (PE) resin in which the molecular architecture has been designed such that a sufficient number of tie chains are incorporated to allow operation at elevated or raised temperatures (RT).
Cross-linked polyethylene (PEX), a type of flexible plastic, is currently replacing traditional copper and galvanized steel as water supply lines in both new construction and remodeling projects. ... PEX pipe remains popular for radiant floor heating. ... Red PEX pipe carries hot water.
I was trained as a metallurgist, so the above organic chemistry is little out of my wheelhouse. However both PE-RT and PEX-red are polyethylene that apparently have lots of cross-linked molecules that give them added creep strength at higher temperatures.
Thanks for the copy and paste... what's your point
When it comes to non traditional plumbing connections, I like to use known dependability. Shark bite has me hooked but legend is intriguing. Going to wait for your pressure test before I put one blue collar dollar on it though.
Unfortunately if you can see PEX it will fail. It is highly susceptible to UV damage.
i love all your videos......i learn so much every time and these are compact videos which just teaches the actual substance and no additional unnecessary info
I replumbed my house with Pex. I used Sharkbite in the hard to reach and temporary areas and clamps elsewhere. It was simple, easy and fairly inexpensive. It's been 2 years now and no problems. I was warned about varmints, so I hung everything high. I useed copper low. I split kitchen funnels and taped/ziptied them to the copper upside down to thwart the climbers. So far so good!
I'd found a SharkBite removal tool that resembles a pair of tongs, and is A LOT easier for removal than the half moon-shaped original. Maybe $12-15 , but it's worth having instead of a headache. I'd used their PTC fittings a bit, and at least for the last 5 years I hadn't had a drip from any of them @ 70psi.
Something I think you didn't notice that makes a huge difference. Both the Evo and legend have a defect that really ruins it for me and anyone with volume or pressure issues. The connectors drop you down nearly an entire size. The I.D. of a ¾ fitting is closer to ½ for example. For most systems that is not acceptable. I personally will never use them for that reason alone.
I agree wholeheartedly. That's why I won't use Pex B as well.
Thank you Matt for the introduction to the new fittings
Thank you Matt! I'm a DIY homeowner and you are my go to source for building/remodeling technology
For the price of those couplers, having the ability to remove them is quite a game changer for me personally. Plus if you want to make changes later on, you can and that adds a ton of value to a good plumbing system.
Legend: "Ooops, I needed a T in there not the Y...crap...oh well, I guess I have to cut it off now."
Sharkbite: "No problem, let me just remove this again real quick"
As for the marking, if you make a small template with a pen holder, it is quick and easy and with all the connection close to each other, you can mark them all at once, we are not that cheap with time, but we sure like convenience and reusability/upgradeability .
I never see anyone stress the importance of beveling the outside of pipe used with sharkbite and sharkbite like fittings. The sharp straight edge of Pex tubing, copper, or CPVC pipe can definitely cut the internal o-ring causing a leak that will ruin your day and test your liability insurance.
Agreed. Every anecdotal story I hear about Sharkbite failures seems to be due to improper prep and installation - exactly as will happen if you don't do proper prep and installation of any other connection system. Especially sweating.
Thank You for this! For me....non-removable, non-reusable equals me Non buy. I trust them for accessible connections that I can see and monitor.
The legend brand looks like it reduces the 1/2 inch pipe to about a quarter inch capacity, maybe 3/8 at best. It seems to me that could present some real pressure and volume issues if more than one or two existed in any run. Even the plastic pex connectors reduce flow more than I like. I use brass barbed pex fittings or Shark Bite almost exclusively for that reason.
Came to the comments hoping someone pointed this out. Obviously negative not mentioned. Not a deal breaker, but should have been discussed.
Just remodeled both of my bathrooms, including abandoning the old through-slab copper (which was poorly laid) and installing all new plumbing through the attic. I used PTC & PEX. The contractor I used for stuff I can't or don't know how to do (drywall, tiling, etc...) was super curious and watched throughout. I even showed him the rig I made to air-pressure charge the whole system to check for leaks. Stood for 2 weeks with 100 lbs air pressure with no loss. Very pleased with how quick, easy, and CHEAP it was to do. All told I think I spent about $500 - 700 to replumb my entire house - this includes a hot-water recirc system. You can't do that with copper for as cheap, that's for sure.
Impressive David. Love the air test too!
David Myer
had a Pex hot water line fail... Contractor put in pex ... somehow a kink developed in the pex line... eventually Water started leaking out of the kink
@@duggydugg3937 yeah, you have to be careful when you get PEX in rolls. You can't just pull it, you have to unroll it. If the pex folds or bends sharply then you have to cut that section out (except the white pex which can be repaired with a heat gun). I think some contractors get a coil and think they can handle it like a coil of copper or wire - pull it into place and you're done. Not true. It does take care. I unrolled sections and carefully straightened them by hand clamping in place as I went. Leave excess at both ends of the pipe while doing this. When all the clamping is done, release one or two clamps at the end you need to connect, measure & cut off excess, push into place, then re-do the clamps. Repeat for the other end. It's the only way to avoid those kinks.
I don’t know where you live but in my area many people have put plumbing in their attic and one year we had a long cold freeze. There was so much damage from freezings pipes. A leak can do hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages in almost no time. I am sure you’re less susceptible with pex but I would still be careful.
I remodeled a house once, tore out all the copper and scrapped it. The money from the scrap more than covered the cost of re-plumbing with pex.
Redid my whole house over the last 7-8 years with H and C, Sioux Chief 12 port copper valve manifolds, using PEX cinch clamps at the manifolds and Sharkbite fittings at the fixtures end. Only had to sweat one fitting from Water heater to the H manifold. No issues at all so far
What happened when push fittings get to 20 to 30 year old ? Does the EPDM rubber perish and then fail and the joint leak ?
I've seen a lot of plumbers doing an entire project with pex and I've done some small fixes with it, i think it's awesome
sure Uponor all day , no fitting restriction
The quality of the content of your video was great. Very impressive and useful. Will be waiting for more updates. Keep posting.
Have used sharkbites several times over many years. Great product Not a single failure!
10 years on my far bathroom hot and cold mated pex to poly grey pipe
11 years on my water heater connection. 3/4 inch and not failed yet. Central Florida here too. Keeping my fingers crossed tho until I replace the heater in a year or 2
I would sort of trust them but do question if or by how much the Legend system, with its thicker pipe insert, will affect/restrict flow
I have a hundred year old home with a lot of newer copper plumbing. I don’t think twice about grabbing a shark bit to make a lasting repair. Great video, Thanks
The key is knowing what fittings are available from which companies and using the correct fitting for the situation. I recently installed 2 hybrid water heaters and PTC fittings are the solution I used. I used 3/4” Push to Connect CTS x 3/4” Female Threaded Swivel Elbow, along with a PTC-Tee for a copper to PEX transition. The option was not available from other manufacturers but was the correct fitting for the job.
I see the reusable as essential to my skill set.
Matt, I used the lightweight plastic shark bite fittings in my new build. They work great, even survived the great freeze of 2021 without leaking after everything thawed out under the house. The ¾ and 1 inch sizes can be very hard to push together when working under a house or between studs but other than the, they are fantastic. I did have a few that were faulty and leaked upon installation but that was repaired after testing.
What happens in 20 years time when the EPDM rubber deteriorates and then leaks , which no doubt it will ,
@@boyasakaI have one installed from 2004. Still no leaks.
Great video. Question if you have to install a combi. What brand (s) would you preferred ?
Thanks in advance
I have, only had a few leaks but that could be due to installed in hard to reach areas. It is a small learning curve to work with though. Like marking the pipe etc. Love watching your show, keep up the good work.
I've used the Sharkbite fittings to build a inlet manifold. The manifold has been in-service for fifteen years plus without any problems. The manifold was built with copper pipe and Sharkbite fittings.
I learned to sweat copper over 20 years ago, so that's what I use for my repairs around the house.
well...I can add to that... I learned to sweat copper in 1967... so, I would like to say, it's a PIA now, in comparison, because of all these new alternatives, for the most part but sure beat the days of leading pipes, threading galv or black...I think Sharks have been around appr 20 years now... one day I was in the plumbing supply store and had some Shark fittings sitting in front of me and another plumber was busting my chops saying Whatsa madder, can't solder? I said, well Smart-ass let me ask you this...what's your time worth...when I use these things, I would bet big bucks that I could be on my second water heater install before you finish 'soldering' your first... so to really return the insult I said... you must be an employee and not the owner of the business advertised on your shirt because the owners are concerned about time and turnaround to keep their guys working, as well as quality...and you have a good day too junior.
@@robwest1297, good point. I have a friend who was a plumber for over three decades. He is a flint of plumbing information. He also has neurological issues and his hands shake a lot. I can’t help but wonder if exposure to all of the acid from soldering, chemicals in his trade contributed d his current medical issues.
I just used a couple Pushlock 1" elbow to MIP to hook to copper loop for water softener and worked perfect, no leaks
Matt thanks for your input it is always valuable. You are the best.
I certainly see the benefit of push connectors I’ve been a professional home repair man for over 30 years and I have use them on tight and difficult locations where open flame is not advisable. But a new home construction I’m still leaning towards compression fittings or solder.
in new construction, pex b is the way to go.
@@tranderrick I just completed a job using mostly pex and I really enjoyed it it was easy to work with and I went with the shark bite crimp System that you can buy it Lowes
I'm a service plumber, and I can tell you I have made some money replacing leaking sharkbites. Professionally.... They are the BEST temporary repair. Perfect to get the water back on till the weekend or till your plumber is available. Decent for a customer with a tight budget, who can't afford the (IMO) professional solder repair, but needs the water on. Handfuls of these caps for isolating manifolds for a leaking slab pipe.
Are they good? They're great, but that oring does leak, I've frequently seen them go in 5 years and less (possibly installation errors too though) . I have found solder joints 60 yrs old and so much tinsile strength that the old pipe will rip before the joint breaks. How can the o ring top that?
Would never think of building a house with oring fittings, i could risk one here or there, but that would also be insanely expensive
I agree!
I used them for my shutoff valves in my tiny bathrooms. I live alone so felt it was worth the gamble.
It could be that they are leaking because the installer did not debar the pipe before sliding on the Sharkbite fitting....they sell a tool to debur but I know that many do not...
@@johnstumbaugh4941 there's a lot of reasons they leak, but i will say I just removed 2 sharkbite couplings from some 1" pex about 3 days ago, improperly seated. What was the Professional repair? Not another sharkbite lol my point is they kept their water on till there was a cast of limescale on the pipe. The professionals General won't rely on them, and the general public seems good at showing them to me leaking. Seems to take a professional to know how to install them.
They really do work pretty good IF correctly installed. But it is usually just as easy and cheaper to use more trusted style of fitting, unless it's a minimum repair, one or 2 fittings for someone with no tools.
I remodeled my condo and all the plumbing lines using Shark-Bite fittings and they are working perfectly.
Originally, I went in very apprehensive thinking how could they last but they are holding up to the hype...
With 140 lbs of pressure on my lines at all times, they are doing fantastic. I installed the from the water
heater down to all faucet/toilet shut off valves... not a single problem easy on, holding up to the pressure...
As someone that is new to this product line, I would highly recommend it. I have flipped many properties
and this being the first time using this - I am extremely happy with the ease of use and the ability to remove
and reinstall them if need be. I highly recommend it especially since it saves time vs cost - time is $$...
I regularly replace leaking sharkbite or any other brand of those push connect ! Thanks for keeping me working !
Trying to de-solder or solder in a cramped space under a sink or in a finished wall for a repair gives these push connectors the win EVERY time. No more stuffing fiberglass cloth behind the work, these things are the best thing I've found in a long, long time.
I use a leather square..
Only problem I see from the legend system is flow restriction, you may have problems with 1/2" lines to shower valves and it may require up sizing to get the same results as a traditional connection.
Would be no different than your crimping of PEX I would imagine. Those are also internal fittings.
Sharkbite is the bomb!
Why bother using a copycat?
Sharkbite fitting has saved my butt more than once, hot water heater from PEX to Copper no problem held firm, on the other hand Sharkbite can not handle cold weather, blew out several in out side applications. Thanks Matt for bring us the latest & greatest. God Bless, brother.
I've had several come apart in an unheated out building in Myrtle Beach SC during freezing weather. Probably best to drain the if possible or heat tape them if you can't drain the pipes.
@@hjc4604 Agreed
I have been in the plumbing wholesale business over 44 years. PERT pipe is the evolution of PEX. It is recyclable. It exceeds PEX A B and C in burst, temperature, and tinsel strength.
I'm a homeowner builder, not a pro, but I've done quite a bit of crimp pex plumbing for my home. Aside from the cost factor of sharkbite and the similar push fittings, I'm kind of a guy who likes to keep things simple. Fewer moving parts, fewer mechanical dependencies, usually means greater reliability overall. Plus, depending on a EPDM gasket to keep my plumbing secure and home flood-free, well, I'm not there yet. I've got EPDM gaskets on some strainers that I have in my (tankless) hot water closet, but that's about it. (I've also got a wet deck and drain in that closet should some plumbing fitting in that closet fail, to control flooding to that local area. So, I'm willing to take more risks there than say, with a sharkbite fitting embedded in my second story home's wall.)
It looks like the Legion might restrict flow or cause noise (turbulence) with the thicker inner stiffener.
I did my new house in Maine , easy and works great so far !
Hey Matt, great video...as always! I did check out Legend's site and was surprised by the selection. To answer your question, I would use Pex in new construction and even bury runs under concrete...but I would not bury fittings / connections.
I'm a copper solder guy. It never leaks, why would you rely on degrading o-ring inside a finished wall?
A couple years ago we had a minor earthquake at my 1966 home in Oakland, CA. About 4 or 5 days later my wife was in our walk-in crawlspace to get something out of storage, and noticed it was wet. I investigated and discovered our 3/4-inch copper main water line, just as it entered our house foundation from outside, was leaking via a very small hole that the small earthquake caused. I believe it was a cracked solder joint, from the 3/4 inch main water line and the hose-bib one-foot higher, on the outside of our house, where the water line enters the house. The hole drilled into our foundation wall was only slightly larger that the 3/4 inch water line, but the minor earthquake must have caused a leak or solder crack as the house moved ever so slightly. I now wonder if some type of flexible pipe would have been more "minor earthquake friendly". My fear is that we only go into our crawlspace a few times a year to pull out stuff in storage, and the 5 or so days of leaking water added several hundred dollars to our water bill. I can't believe how lucky it was that my wife just happened to grab a suitcase and told me about the wet crawlspace. I later called EBMUD (our water company) what happened but they would not credit us the water leak.
I'd add that we called what is considered the most high-end plumbing company in our area (Albert Naham Plumbing), I no longer use them because they are ridiculously expensive (but they also never screw up a job). They repaired the main line with new copper and used a battery-powered clamp tool that uses fittings that I'm certain uses pretty much the same type of o-rings. The plumber was super experienced and been in the trade forever, so I was expecting him to solder the new copper pipe.
1980+ homes with their copper always leaks. We had our 1990s condos and 2 regular homes get pinhole and slab leaks. So much so for the condos that the association redid everyone's home to pex. Best thing is the water pressure with pex and the much faster hot water due to the runs
@@donaldlee6760 any pipe going through a footer or foundation should have been sleeved with a pipe 2 pipe sizes larger than the 3/4" waterline, so basically the hole should have been filled with a 1"1/2 piece of pipe so that if the foundation ever moves it is left with a little play. It sounds like you didn't have that. I'm guessing codes in the 60's didn't require it.
2 big reasons...
Labour and freeze tolerance.
As someone who has had a slab leak with copper in a late 80's house, I can tell you that it definitely leaks. No issues with the pex repipe after the fact and I can service it myself.
ive removed the caps and used them on about 7 different bath remodels so far
I had to replace my 60 gal. electric hot water tank a couple of years ago. I chose to use pex and sharkbite to plumb the new tank in. Being that the tank was clearly visible in the laundry room I felt fairly secure. I'm had zero problems with it.
So far, all of the sharkbite plumbing I've done has held up over the years. Granted, it's still relatively new plumbing work, but I haven't had any leaks and it's so easy to install.
Being a licensed plumber I will say these fittings have use in certain situations. But I would never bury a mechanical fitting behind a wall or under a floor.
I completely agree - do some pex systems contain said mechanical fittings ?🥳
I am a plumbing contractor and I've seen two homes damaged from SharkBite fittings. One of them the lady was in Florida for the what a mess. It was attached to a water heater the bronze part of the SharkBite deteriorated. It wasn't until neighbor saw water running down the after filling the all the flooring on first floor had to be replaced I would never hide or bury one of these feelings behind a wall
@@sewerat11 anything and everything can fail. I'm sure many more homes have been destroyed from traditional piping joints over sharkbites.
@@sewerat11 LOL, what about the other 95% of you call outs for traditional copper/pex failures... Or are you claiming you never saw copper joints fail? Cause
Hmmm........that’s interesting. I thought electric Jack hammers were invented to bust up concrete floors to get to those bullit proof sweat fittings.
As a remodeler, I use PTC fittings all the time. I like the removability of the Sharkbite. You can put a cap on a line to get the water back on and then take it off later. But, per manufacturer recommendations, I would never put one in an inaccessible place ie..inside walls.
WHY NOT in inaccessible walls, if it works in other places????
@@giuseppe3010 You are not supposed to use sharkbite fittings in inaccessible areas because the seal is reliant upon a rubber O-ring that can fail over time.
@@dodge7854 i don’t think the manufacturer’s recommends not using it in inaccessible areas as you stated
@@stunnerdoc you are right, I misstated. Sharkbite claims that they are guaranteed safe up to 25 years, but how many people change out their plumbing every 25 years?
I've gotten several jobs where they blew up in the walls. I only use them in basements or for quick caps or connects for pressure testing the pex, then swap em out. I've definitely definitely seen them freeze and blow. They are convenient, but a propress or pex crimper is just barely more inconvenient. Don't trust these jammies too far x because of they do fail you are fucked
I use the pro bite and they work great . And they can be removed . I love your videos ! Keep up the good work ! Thanks !
Absolutely I have done it on several remodels and one brand new home the home is 13 years old now and no problems and I do it on all my remodels
Shark bite?
I’ve been using shark bite for repairs & remodel around the house since they first came out, 15 years now? No failures yet but even if it does, bing boom, easy peazy & it’s fixed again in a jiffy. ( you guessed it, I never quite got the hang of soldering copper, especially in tight spaces) the legend fittings do look pretty impressive, but I have no pex in my 1970’s house
bing boom, easy peazy..... except of course, the soaked drywall, the damaged flooring. That diesn't quite fix itself in a jiffy, certainly not less than the 3 minutes it takes to sweat a fitting to begin with
The only fittings I would trust inside a wall, are soldered copper and the expanded Pex with the extra ring on a barbed brass connector, JMO.
Yes - Uponor PEX
I had a bear of a time pulling the pex off an apollo crimp fitting AFTER removing the crimp ring, had to use tools! The pex deforms over the barbs very solid system, $50 tool is a nice bonus and way more reliable than a push connect
Sadly I have seen more wiersbo style expanded rings leak in walls that I only use the viega style crimp ring. Never had one leak when done properly.
August
Damn straight. In a sealed wall or floor for me is only brazed copper or rehau/(pex ring/sleeve style)
I find Bpress acceptable in accessible areas.
If I found my apprentices using PTC on my jobs they would be unemployed other than a temporary/emergency cap and seal
If you live in a climate that never freezes cpvc is the way to go it is cheap easy and fast but would not recommend for places that have any chance of freezing
Thank you,thank you very much,i appreciate!
thank you for making. great advice for DIYers who dont want to solder!
it would be great to see water pressure tests with all of these and include prices
They did do ok not them but I've seen pressure test and shark bite did really well. Same as per pipe did better than copper pipe for freezing . PEX will split but will expand and shrink if it doesn't split. Cooper always splits
PEX pipe not per pipe stupid auto correct
The solder fittings in my house are 65 years old and will still be there for another 60. How long will rubber O-rings last?
Copper can errode somewhat due to water softners. But if the rubber seal does last, that PTC is way faster and less tools than sweating. I wouldn't put one in a wall though.
@@RPostWVU
The only in-wall sharkbite plumbing I've used so far is the master bath shower. I left myself an access door in my closet. It was a whole lot easier than sweating those connections for the new shower valve. No problems so far, but it's only been a couple to three years.
It’s a no brainer quick connections are the way to go for DYI in the other hand Plumbers hate them cause it takes away profits 💰
@@johnmendoza6421 insurance claim waiting to happen...
@@johnmendoza6421 True !
Building an off grid home and will be attending the builders expo in Vegas. Will be sure to check out the fittings. Thanks for the info, I enjoy the show.
I installed 2 compressed water shutoff valves for lav. They had small leaking no matter how I adjusted tightening the nuts. I replaced them with 2 valves from Sharkbite, amazingly no more leaking after that.
I used pex and SharkBite over a decade ago where it has been regularly subjected to freezing temperatures. Zero problems since. Push connections didn’t require use of solder or torch which would have been a fire hazard in the old wood structure. These newer options are worth considering.
any journeyman plumber can solder around wood
Any amateur can push together SharkBite and it can be rotated and separated whenever needed. Can’t do that with soldered or crimped connections. It’s just another available option to choose from. Use whatever suits your needs.
@@Private-GtngxNMBKvYzXyPq: I agree, any amateur can do it, but there’s a 40 yr ‘professional plumber’ commenting on this video who says he can’t get them to work at all and that they’re complete garbage, lol.
I have worked in building maintenance for over 20 years and the last five taking care of geared to income gov housing - so i’ve seen failures with basically every type of system out there - from what I have seen - it’s almost always an installation step-skipped or someone rushing - possibly even, a one in a thousand connector - that contained a slight defect (possibly) or maybe even a shark bite type connector that someone removed improperly before, maybe even more then once.
Now that being said as far as maintenance goes for drains i would personally vote for ABS every time anytime - other then for toilet flanges - it reigns supreme in my world - That wasn’t my opinion however just a few years ago I would have touted copper drains as a 100 year install, which for a homeowner it almost always is - but in low income you have tenants that can at times, pour anything and everything down the drain. To the point I have one in particular, that needs annual, yes annual, copper toilet drain pipe replacement due to pin holes. Sounds unbelievable right, yeah I know.
I should mention - This isn’t some sloppy installation where to much flux was used that ate the copper pipe over time or some thin walled el cheap o copper pipe. This is professionally installed copper by a license plumber (I can’t do everything at my sites, and thankfully, I didn’t at least in this case) that’s been eaten through three times - now - at the 90 - around the one year mark - we have some theory’s as to what maybe going on but hard to say for sure.
ABS seems to me to resist acids better from what i’ve experienced, although due to “it’s plastic, “ I wouldn’t have thought so - I was proved otherwise.
Now supply lines are a mixed bag to me and I personally like copper and I ain’t some grey haired old dude, just yet - my experience started young, due to family business in maintenance.
I like copper feeds - easy to work with I have yet to see any catostraphic failures even when exposed to freezing and over pressure - which I can’t say the same for pex. Copper will pin hole over enough time, but can be bandaided easily and reworked easily and it’s standard.
The worst part about pex IMO is the competing types, also shark bites don’t help with more types knock offs and smaller then normal ID’s especially when barbed fittings are used after say a hot water heater. Can become maintenance issue due to low flow and even clogs as the sacrificial metal inside the hot water tank erodes.
Anyway love the build show - keep up the great work - just throwing in my two cents take it for what it’s worth - possibly not much lol.
cheers
Hi Matt, Thanks. can you do one with pressure testing these new pipes and fittings?
With the internal stiffeners of all of these fittings, the pipe rating is reduced because it reduces the internal diameter of the tube (you're only rated as high as your narrowest point in the tube). Some of these fittings look like they are thicker than others and therefore would rate lower than others. It would be good to know how these compare to one another because it would affect the pressure and flow rate of the system.
It would take a large number of these fittings in your system to really have any impact. I would expect no more than 3 or 4 of these in any system prior to an outlet. If they have a pressure drop that's really high like 1 psi that would be a 4 psi pressure drop at your delivery. In most modern municipal water fed plumbing systems this would be insignificant. If you are on your own water well water supply with a weak pump and a large plumbing system than you might be concerned but in those cases the flow velocity would be reduced and your pressure drop through the fittings would be even less.
@@OttoComin wrong , look up garden valve compared to hose bibs , any restrictions counts PER CODE
@@dollyhadbraces9361 per code has nothing to do with the amount of pressure drop you actually see in a system. Yes when you build a system it needs to meet code. When you calculate pressure drop that is governed by physics and not code.
Just a note - the newer Sharkbite Max connectors no longer require a stiffener for Pex.
I've had to replace several failed SharkBite connectors in two older homes.
Have they improved the design over the last ten years?
The ones I had to repair were from 2006-ish, failed 2018-2020.
Not sure if it was design flaw, or combination of hard water and dissimilar metals, in the plumbing of an 1800's house.
I have one on for 15 years so far and another just after my chlorine injection that has been on for about 8 years. The last one was used since the chlorine ate through the wall of a straight piece of copper pipe(after the injector the CL is about 10ppm). No leaks so far.
i've just come across your videos - great & very useful - Phil in Estonia
i would love to see you do a video with these new connectors vs sharkbite where you over presure them to failure like you did with sharkbite previously
Thanks for the demonstration, my concern is the rubber gasket that might deteriorate in a few years. Like any rubber gasket (petroleum base packing) it does deteriorate as it ages.
gtrs4ever
Depends on rubber type gasket ring, nitrile will last a long time, Viton will last longer, even in extreme heat applications( ex:engine valve seals)
I'm sure it will last 20 yrs..but what about 50 or 100 yrs?
Its NOT typical Rubber It's EPDM. EPDM is used in High Temperature Manufacturing Processes. Its not a crappy rubber O ring. Its EPDM. Huge Difference. Looks the same but not.
Do some water pressure and freezing tests like you've done before with all of these!
Colin Stuart I would like to see this as well. Thats a true test
Yes, what about ratings?
@@drummerguy676 8hb
@@drummerguy676 8hb
@@drummerguy676 k
I have use the sharkbite for a number of years in the campground biz, great for temporary use , got me out of trouble, however, time and time again the fittings would let go , break down from temp changes , salt air just extremes in temperature changes! Bottom line , I would only use them if I was in a fix! And change it with a pex fitting , or copper solder fitting. Never between the wall! Good video !
With the legend shut offs do they spin like the shark bite style? That's my biggest complaint is that they can turn and spin on the pipe (esp copper).
I am a builder/remodeler in Minnesota. I typically sweat or ring crimp for most permanent plumbing. Every spring I do a bunch of outside spigots because... Minnesota.
I'll use these push to connect fittings to cap a line to allow use of the water system until the final installation is completed or to do a reroute while dealing with some structural modifications. I've seen some semi long term quick connections from the previous work that was done many years prior and not one leak has been found.
However I hear a ton of hating on these push on products, that have been around for quite a while now, but not one first hand account of anyone actually experiencing a failure in a correctly installed fitting? For years my dad avoided buying a car with a computer in it because it made it more complex and prone to failure......
Pex type plumbing is quieter than copper because of how easy it is to route the lines without significant changes in direction, much cheaper and far quicker to install in a lot of situations. For cost considerations, and peace of mind, I will use crimp rings. Fire doesn't always play well with other products like spray foam!
I've had to replace PTC's that were correctly installed, no strain, not in cold place etc. There's too many dissimilar metals and after time I find dirt, dust or even oxidization causes slow streams to occur
Starting to see some semi specific responses about having to replace PTC plumbing connectors. Not many first hand accounts, which is a good thing, but this is far better information than a bunch of "I don't trust them." Why not? "Because I don't and the old way is best."
If we stuck to the older ways of doing things we would never move forward with building science. Not every advancement will be a solid win. We are a huge part of the field testing process. Giving good empirical data will help guide those who are looking for a one time solution or those who are just getting started a better grounding in field.
Opinions are highly biased and not even intentionally. I read deep into the comments on quite a few of Matt's videos. There is some really good content in there and A LOT of potentially dangerous options.
My favorite: "Matt, you build houses too tight. They need to breathe."
Aka: build sloppy so your really poor job of building can dry out and maybe last longer.
Logical comparison: I build submarines that leak a bit, but I can build them bigger, quicker and cheaper......so I put a bigger bilge pump in so it doesn't sink this time. It will cost you more in the long run, but you can spread the cost out over time.....forever.
I is good to be critical of things and ask intelligent questions. Building science is a tough balance of making things better and still keeping the product/production/installation costs reasonable. I'm sure that they could make huge waterproof panels to sheathe the structures that we build, but they would cost too much and never get used.
I used to use sharkbite a lot, for smaller jobs it saves a tonn in labour. However I have seen some crack and some break apart altogether and no not from freezing.
I prefer copper in my own house mainly for lifespan and health reasons, oh and water flow/pressure.
Amen brother
afobear you had me until the part about your Dad. He’s 100% right...Lol..! I find it funny to think that people “feel” copper will never leak. Ha.! Look at the joints in any musty basement. I repaired plenty of frozen blowouts to copper whether it be the pipe itself or a fitting that blew apart. So, afraid to touch anything wondering if the next joint will break loose too.
1:18 I swear i heard you say "you just litterally push it onto the pipe and your dumb" i cracked up!
Despite the recommendation to measure and mark the pipe for Sharkbite connectors, I have yet to have a problem doing it by feel. There is initial resistance as it passes into the bite ring, and then again as it bottoms out in the connector. The Legend PTC connectors don't appear to have captured consumer market interest, as 3 years after this video, I didn't find any results for them at national companies (Home Depot, Lowes, Amazon).
So you change the inside diameter of the pipe with these new fittings and now have a flow restriction. Would I be understanding this right?
No freeze or pressure test?! Come on Matt!
Good point!
Legend gonna have to send out some more
Would be nice to see how they stack up. Also have you ever thought about trying to do a flow test? I would think a disadvantage of having the o-rings on the inside would be the fitting choking the flow.
He did the freeze test in a previous video. The shark bites passed.
@@buildshow Time to head out to Demolition Ranch with an 8 million PSI pressure and Flak Jacket test session.
Wouldn’t an inside seal result in a restriction at the fitting? Unlike an outside seal.
I’m eye balling the legend fitting for a new home built, possible shark bite on a remodel coming up
Great Video!
Can I use the Legend Valve products and connecters on outdoor sprinkler irrigation system for my lawn and drip?
The legend fittings look like what I've been wanting for those spots where a water heater is sitting in front of a broken line. I would spend the extra money if I was sure the fix would go from a 5 year durability to a 20 year and didn't require me becoming a contortionist.
I've used sharkbite on water heater. It is exposed and easy to see/fix leaks, and connected water heater only expected to last 6 to 15 years, so about the same expiration date.
I'd never consider using a push on connection behind/inside a wall. Save (maybe) a few bucks, spend thousands to fix.
@@JasonW. Exactly.
@@MyFortressConstruction I've tried to use sharkbite on toilet before. But even after deburring copper line then polishing with wet emery cloth, two different turn off valves had very slight leak (only seen using tissue below the valve). I ended up using a standard 5/8 of compression fitting, immediately no more leak.
So, maybe the 3/4" sharkbites are just more likely to work?
@@JasonW. The larger the diameter of the pipe, the less resistance it has to deformation. A shark bite fitting, unlike the legend, has only one O-ring with a bearing surface of around 1mm on the pipe and it relies on that pipe being perfectly, or almost perfectly, round and without any damage running perpendicular to the O-ring (probably the issue with your leaking shutoffs). What I like about these legend fittings is that they not only increase the bearing surface by doubling the O-rings, but they also introduce an additional force onto the pex pipe which forces it into a more even circumference and puts more pressure on the O-rings. The problem though is that the already narrow ID of the pex pipe is narrowed even further by the fitting.
so apparently the plumbers are going to be cheaper in 5 years to come and do it right! LOL
I wouldn't hide any ptc fittings behind walls or in ceilings, only use them where they can be easily checked on/replaced like a basement utility room or access panel. I would try to do a home run with pex to a fixture if possible.
Using fixture home runs to a distribution manifold has one huge advantage. If you have a problem with a fixture, you can turn off the fixture supply at the manifold, leaving the remainder of the house unaffected. There will seldom be the need to have a shutoff at the fixture or to shut off the entire house to repair the shower faucets.
How can I take a sponsored video seriously? I like the technology behind the legend connectors and they're double sealed which is cool. I also like the audible sound they make upon seating. Great comparison.
I did my sons efficiency cabin with the PEX and shark bites with the exception of shower which I used copper and And shark bites. Going on 2 years now and so far so good. Using the same on our house now. The key is definitely to have them at the proper depth.
Matt the geek engineer in you came out when you kept showing closeups with a mechanical pencil. 😎
PEX expansion fittings! No flow lose due to inserts, expensive milwaukee power tool but easy one handed application and my old bones can still work all day long. I'm assuming better prices than the Legend and I know it cheaper than sharkbite
Sweated and cemented 90 percent of my house, got a few sharkbites for convenience,one on my out side hose bib. It spins, but hasn't leaked.
Nice video Matt. Informative
I'm 72 a retired builder and I'm going to build a smaller house for myself...again. This time it's going to be a SIPS home and I will be using PEX and Sharkbite. I figure at my age maybe 10 15 years should still be ok. Love your show.
Great to hear, how did you manage to still be able to build a house and active in your golden years if you don't mind me asking?
I ask because at 31 and working on machines amd engines for 13 years im already hurting here and there. I want to still be able to do all the things I love doing if I live long enough.
Matt love your show,as a plumber from the sweat copper days ,I can only see using shark bites on a quick fix situation,or for a test gauge.
I generally think that too. Do you think this PTC category is the future? And does this sort of double gasket make any difference in your opinion?
Matt are you a plumber?
@@bradhaenitsch1145 Answered in video
Matt Risinger absolutely not it’s a homeowner disaster in the making . Ptc fittings are a joke and no respectable plumber would ever use them under any circumstance. Sorry to say but I’ve been plumber for 35 years now. Upunor pex with expanding rings on barb fittings or press fittings are the future.
@@joem5332 how many respectable plumbers installed lead pipes carrying drinking water back in the day? How many plumbers still insist copper drain lines are the only way?
I love the concept definitely a better place to start for push to connect fittings than what SharkBite came up with.
I've had bad luck from time to time on push on fittings. I have used the shark bite that you clamp on with the crimping tool and never had an issue with them.
The Legend seems to have a small inside diameter. Affect water flow?
totally agree
3/4'' Pex is actually 5/8'' I.D. AND 1/2'' is 3/8'' I.D. Always go a little bigger with Pex.
First thing I thought of too when he mentioned the gasket is on the inside.
Yep. One of the best things about Sharkbite is they are almost fully open. I try to avoid any PEX connectors that have thicker inserts that reduce the flow. PEX already has a smaller I.D. than copper, why reduce it further at every fitting?
It's going to cause water turbulence. Water is going to tear the inside of that fitting up over time.
Why would you use these fittings vs crimp fittings? The labor savings doesn't seem remotely overcome the additional cost.
Because if you have 1 or 2 connections. But no crimper, sharkbites are the ticket.
@@justinbrefczynski8942 True, but a decent clamp tool that even includes some clamps runs about $30 on Amazon. Only takes about 3 Sharkbites to pay for that tool, and I'd argue the clamp (Oatker) system is just about as easy as SBs.
@@justinbrefczynski8942 Your correct. But Arthur wasn't talking about a home owner. He was talking about someone who does it for a living.
Always well done videos thank you
My remodel used a number of push to connect connections on our PEX pipe. Replacing old galvanised steel and PVC pipe in an 1890's farm house. We just survived the Feb 2021 freeze event (48 hours without power and single digit temperatures) with no problems. The PVC pipes inthe pump house broke and the PVC pipes that were drained(!) shatterd at the open water shut off valve. We are replacing the 'above ground' piping with PEX when the supply problem here in texas is back to normal.
I would like to see a propress fittings test video.
I've wondered if propress were just a glorified sharkbite fitting. Would be interested in seeing them in a pressure test as well