As promised, I'm reporting that the Shadows of Change 4.2 update has in the patch notes that the Huntsman General will now PROPERLY apply bonus vs. large ammo to Huntsmen and Archer units. I'll edit this comment once I find out how much the bonus is.
I appreciate your videos. I especially like how you maintain focus on the unit(s) in question without stating things like "X unit is ok but Y unit is better, just go for Y". It bugs me when people say things like this because we all know Bestigors are stronger than Gors, but in a campaign that doesn't matter until you can properly field however many Bestigors you want! Keep it up friend.
Well exactly, and I very much kept that in mind because I was playing Beastmen campaigns to see that for myself. I'm having a similar... rough process going back to Monster Hunter World, actually. Some things are achievable without having 3000 hours in a game. Some things... less so. Hard for me to make a guide for the people who are the 1 percenters of the audience only.. ...But on TH-cam it happens ALL the time haha... I still might make something for it, but it's going through a lot of "No wait this won't work for normals at all..." stages.
So with the release of the generic Gold Wizard Heroes, Hunstman suddenly became really good, especially in Markus' campaign in particular. Before, Hunstman were supposed to take down large targets, but didn't have much AP, making them only good against Beastmen and Greenskin, but not armoured knights or armoured monsters. However Markus' campaign have him facing primarily heavily armoured dinosaurs. This resulted in a confusing situation where you might be better off using Handgunners instead to snipe down the armoured dinos. But with Gold Wizard's Plague of Rust, Huntsman are suddenly amazing at killing armoured large units. This was always the case in MP where you could take Gelt alongside Hunstman to wreck expensive elite cavalry and armoured SEMs, but Markus Wulfhard never could get the same results as Gold Wizards weren't available as Heroes until recently.
That sounds a lot like how I dealt with Lizardmen factions as Kairos. Seeing him at nutty levels of spell mastery dropping overcast Final Transmutation... well, I'd say 'it put Gelt to shame', and at the time it absolutely did, but Gelt has upgraded since. Impressive on a dino heavy stack nonetheless!
These guys are the actual damage dealers of the Empire. They don't have great armor piercing damage, but they can strike from behind the infantry lines and don't need a line of sight. Like you mentioned, with 90 units and 4-8 AP damage per shot, even the most armored units will feel the pain over time.
Yeah, not all targets are as squishy as "most" Ogres for the Huntsmen as is being pointed out, but your overall striking power is still impressive with all these units, and they aren't complicated to acquire.
Their is one niche that the huntsman have. They are an anti oger tool. Anti large plus the low armor of most of the oger troops, means they will shred bull and maneater units. They will do nothing against stonehorns or curshers but empire has better tools for those beasts.
@OffToBattle lots of factions have larger targets with low armor. The problem is that outside of ogers, you will not see a lot of them. The AI likes to spam high tier armored units because they are favored in auto resolve. Pre IE this wasn't an issue since Kislev and Cathay were the only two heavy metal factions. Post CoC dlc every faction has an armored front line, sadly making these guys largely useless outside of a few edge cases.
@@MySuperPowerIsITouchGrass You can do worse than the AP of crossbows at a reload time close to that of Archers at a crossbow range, but points well taken.
Huntsman falter in my opinion due to their ranking as a tier 3 building unit. The empire lives and dies by single entity heroes distracting the charge so their ranged units can kill everything unharmed. If you get the barracks to recruit huntsmen you get a free empire captain with it which is nice, but you are also using up a slot that could get you handgunners or outriders with grenade launchers in its place. Anti large aint as good as armor piercing imo for damage and handgunners are actually cheaper so I honestly dont know why youd ever go for huntsmen over handgunners I mean by sigmar handgunners are in the same building as hellstorm rockets like youre gonna have them in your recruit pool anyways if you want to win
Well thats the kicker for me, because I think the best blockers in the empires roster are their single entity heroes, so firing arcs dont come into effect but stalk does and I will admit its definitely a good resource to have
I know I'm late, but arrow stacking is still an effective and cheap early game army. As for late game I think having two huntsmen per traditional army is useful due their indirect fire; as good as guns are they can be awkward, and too many handguns can make your armies overly terrain dependant.
I've often done something similar with my formations, but just the timing of my playing Empire means I haven't used actual Huntsmen that much. I'm still thinking of photoshopping (or AI-ing these days...) a huntsman's cap on top of Karl Franz and using them in his personal army a ton. It'd work well with his melee tendencies. I've made guns work with him just fine, but everyone can use those, and Elspeth can use them a lot better now. And hey, maybe the algo will recommend the video to a few new people because you commented, I'm grateful.
Archers are proof that this game's reliance on 20 limit unit armies held only by trivial upkeep is a failed system. There's never any reason not to use the most elite and expensive unit since gold is a literal non-issue. This game should have relied on a resource and population system. In this case simple units like archers would rely on any number of low quality common resources whereas Handgunners need highly specialized resources refined by a network of buildings.
I get exactly where you're coming from, but we stand on the shoulders of Total War: Rome II and the games that came before it, so there's tons of legacy tech involved. To think that Empire was much maligned for requiring multiple buildings to field things like Outriders with Grenade Launchers back in the day? I know everything requires some compromises, but there's nothing wrong with your idea, and in a different game it'd work GREAT. Thanks for the comment.
![F.HERO Ft. JSPKK x ลำไย ไหทองคำ x M-PEE - ไม่สนิทบิดหมด (Thai Riders Anthem) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kPJZ0UihBfk/mqdefault.jpg)
As promised, I'm reporting that the Shadows of Change 4.2 update has in the patch notes that the Huntsman General will now PROPERLY apply bonus vs. large ammo to Huntsmen and Archer units. I'll edit this comment once I find out how much the bonus is.
I appreciate your videos. I especially like how you maintain focus on the unit(s) in question without stating things like "X unit is ok but Y unit is better, just go for Y". It bugs me when people say things like this because we all know Bestigors are stronger than Gors, but in a campaign that doesn't matter until you can properly field however many Bestigors you want! Keep it up friend.
Well exactly, and I very much kept that in mind because I was playing Beastmen campaigns to see that for myself. I'm having a similar... rough process going back to Monster Hunter World, actually. Some things are achievable without having 3000 hours in a game. Some things... less so. Hard for me to make a guide for the people who are the 1 percenters of the audience only.. ...But on TH-cam it happens ALL the time haha... I still might make something for it, but it's going through a lot of "No wait this won't work for normals at all..." stages.
So with the release of the generic Gold Wizard Heroes, Hunstman suddenly became really good, especially in Markus' campaign in particular. Before, Hunstman were supposed to take down large targets, but didn't have much AP, making them only good against Beastmen and Greenskin, but not armoured knights or armoured monsters. However Markus' campaign have him facing primarily heavily armoured dinosaurs. This resulted in a confusing situation where you might be better off using Handgunners instead to snipe down the armoured dinos.
But with Gold Wizard's Plague of Rust, Huntsman are suddenly amazing at killing armoured large units. This was always the case in MP where you could take Gelt alongside Hunstman to wreck expensive elite cavalry and armoured SEMs, but Markus Wulfhard never could get the same results as Gold Wizards weren't available as Heroes until recently.
That sounds a lot like how I dealt with Lizardmen factions as Kairos. Seeing him at nutty levels of spell mastery dropping overcast Final Transmutation... well, I'd say 'it put Gelt to shame', and at the time it absolutely did, but Gelt has upgraded since. Impressive on a dino heavy stack nonetheless!
Good stuff....thanks man....
Thanks again!
Excellent job with the analytic breakdown
Thanks, I always hope to do you guys justice with them.
These guys are the actual damage dealers of the Empire. They don't have great armor piercing damage, but they can strike from behind the infantry lines and don't need a line of sight. Like you mentioned, with 90 units and 4-8 AP damage per shot, even the most armored units will feel the pain over time.
Yeah, not all targets are as squishy as "most" Ogres for the Huntsmen as is being pointed out, but your overall striking power is still impressive with all these units, and they aren't complicated to acquire.
Their is one niche that the huntsman have. They are an anti oger tool. Anti large plus the low armor of most of the oger troops, means they will shred bull and maneater units.
They will do nothing against stonehorns or curshers but empire has better tools for those beasts.
I'm sure there's other stuff similar to the Ogre problem but that's an excellent, wonderful example of where they shine...
@OffToBattle lots of factions have larger targets with low armor. The problem is that outside of ogers, you will not see a lot of them.
The AI likes to spam high tier armored units because they are favored in auto resolve. Pre IE this wasn't an issue since Kislev and Cathay were the only two heavy metal factions. Post CoC dlc every faction has an armored front line, sadly making these guys largely useless outside of a few edge cases.
@@MySuperPowerIsITouchGrass You can do worse than the AP of crossbows at a reload time close to that of Archers at a crossbow range, but points well taken.
Huntsman falter in my opinion due to their ranking as a tier 3 building unit.
The empire lives and dies by single entity heroes distracting the charge so their ranged units can kill everything unharmed. If you get the barracks to recruit huntsmen you get a free empire captain with it which is nice, but you are also using up a slot that could get you handgunners or outriders with grenade launchers in its place.
Anti large aint as good as armor piercing imo for damage and handgunners are actually cheaper so I honestly dont know why youd ever go for huntsmen over handgunners
I mean by sigmar handgunners are in the same building as hellstorm rockets like youre gonna have them in your recruit pool anyways if you want to win
Firing arc and stalk are the big ones, but I can completely understand why Huntsmen just don't feel impactful ENOUGH to justify it.
Well thats the kicker for me, because I think the best blockers in the empires roster are their single entity heroes, so firing arcs dont come into effect
but stalk does and I will admit its definitely a good resource to have
@@fe7general837 Like I said with Rangers, some battles it'll be entirely useless, but when it's useful it's amazing.
I've finally lost my mind.
I know I'm late, but arrow stacking is still an effective and cheap early game army. As for late game I think having two huntsmen per traditional army is useful due their indirect fire; as good as guns are they can be awkward, and too many handguns can make your armies overly terrain dependant.
I've often done something similar with my formations, but just the timing of my playing Empire means I haven't used actual Huntsmen that much. I'm still thinking of photoshopping (or AI-ing these days...) a huntsman's cap on top of Karl Franz and using them in his personal army a ton. It'd work well with his melee tendencies. I've made guns work with him just fine, but everyone can use those, and Elspeth can use them a lot better now. And hey, maybe the algo will recommend the video to a few new people because you commented, I'm grateful.
Archers are proof that this game's reliance on 20 limit unit armies held only by trivial upkeep is a failed system. There's never any reason not to use the most elite and expensive unit since gold is a literal non-issue.
This game should have relied on a resource and population system. In this case simple units like archers would rely on any number of low quality common resources whereas Handgunners need highly specialized resources refined by a network of buildings.
I get exactly where you're coming from, but we stand on the shoulders of Total War: Rome II and the games that came before it, so there's tons of legacy tech involved. To think that Empire was much maligned for requiring multiple buildings to field things like Outriders with Grenade Launchers back in the day? I know everything requires some compromises, but there's nothing wrong with your idea, and in a different game it'd work GREAT. Thanks for the comment.