I've seen a truly disturbing amount of Anti-Semitic comments on this video so I wanna make this absolutely clear- If you make anti-semitic comments you will be banned from this channel. Fuck off with that shit!
Really? where does antisemitism fit into star trek? really confusing Star trek earth is how the world should be, one a unified earth built on mutual respect and a common human goal of exploration, knowledge, bettering the whole of our species.
@@ashleyeldorado7750 Chuds abound everywhere, even among the fandom built around one of the most conceptually progressive sci-fi universes. Steve Shives (from whence The Algorithm doubtless delivered me here) has dealt with the whole "get your SJW politics out of my silly sci-fi" phenomenon quite a bit in his Star Trek analysis videos.
It really ought to go without saying - and so, so sad that it must be said anyway. So, since it apparently must be - thank you for saying it. And more so, engaging in the labor of taking out the trash. I hate to imagine all the filth that you have to deal with so that we don't have to.
@Sir Ackbar You might be a little naive on this. I think you'll find that if you scratch the surface on these jokes, they're often reflective of an actual hatred and disgust, if you care to listen to the people making them, and ask them a few questions.
From one dimensional silly villains, to a three dimensional nuanced species. It's quite an epic journey. You've got to love Star Trek. And a lot of that is owed to Armin Shimerman.
To be all fair, many factions was made silly in TNG by replacing real world inspired factions with fantasy archetypes. In TOS we have Space America (Federation), Space Russia (Klingons) and Space Romans (Vulcans/Romulans) In TNG they are Space Empire, Space Barbarians, and Space Elves respectively. Space Goblins (Ferengi) and Space Undead (Borg) just followed the suit. In a hindsight, what DS9 writers did to make them look somehow realistic again, without breaking TNG lore, is nothing short of miracle work.
@Jimmy De'Souza I think the conclusions you are supposed to draw is that since Quark and Rom are greedy Ferengi but aren't completely and totally horrible, that it is their culture which is flawed, not them as a people.
Star Trek has always suffered from the Planet Of Hats trope. What makes Armin Shimerman & his DS9 family stand out is, you can see people under the hats.
His best imho was about how hypocritical the Federation is and about how they destroy individuality and different cultures just like the Borg and Dominion do, but with better pr.
@@xury12 You can find a full list of them online somewhere, I've seen them. Recognize that they were constructed by Hollywood writers intent on making Capitalism look bad, so they're not as consistent as you might want.
I really liked the moment when Quark went back to Fereginar and found his old Marauder Mo action figures. It was a nice callback to the original designs, and Quark playing with them was brilliant.
I liked that, too. I always hoped DS9 would establish that Armin Shimmerman's Ferengi from The Last Outpost was Quark's cousin. They could have poked fun at how silly the Ferengi military was.
I always marvel with how many things DS9 did right with Star Trek, despite how much that show was supposedly antithetical to Roddenberry's vision of the series. Ferengi are just one of many examples of this in Trek.
Overall I think the Ferengi are a wonderful SciFi species. Much more complexly drawn than many others. But no one ever mentions that they are the sharpest dressers out there! (Cardassian Garek as tailor deserves mention here too) The colors, the fabrics, the patterns! So refreshing against a plethora of uniforms, or worse the continual same clothing items across an entire planet!
A friend pointed out how many of the metal collar adornments they wear are evocative of bow ties or Southern gentleman type string ties, which was somewhat revelatory to me. lol
@@williamdavis9562 Doubtful. Fashion is often rather silly, yes, but most people have personal sensibilities about our own appearances. Whether its as simple as preferring certain colors and/or materials, or as complex as feelings associated with historical context of different clothing styles, we all like to dress somewhat uniquely. It's part of our individuality, and I see no logical reason for it to ever go away.
@@williamdavis9562 Fashion is about expression. If you throw away fashion then you throw away art as well which at that point how are we any different from bland automatons?
Nog's arc is, I think, one of the most compelling arcs in all of DS9. To see him go from trying to be a "good Ferengi" to realizing he is never going to be one, and finally to realizing he doesn't need to be one. Then, in the end, becoming incredibly successful by metrics he chose rather than the ones society tried to put on him. Also, I want to see Ishka and Lwaxana Troi working together on some plot. They would be completely unstoppable. Honestly, the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order should have just took those two to the Founder's world. The war would have been over by dinner.
I am just so upset Nog is dead. His character was so tenderly rendered. I'm just a year older than Aron. And the guy who played the Grand Nagus is one of my favorite actors of all time. Such a sweet man, still with us.
The Ferengi ship design is actually reminiscent of their emblem, that of course looks like two opposing hands grasping the same object, to infer their greediness.
When your show spans decades of lore and you really want to use something iconic. I don't see the issue with what Enterprise did. At least it didn't pull an STD or STP. Acquisition was, in fact, a decent episode and they never did really know much about the Ferengi in that episode and the Ferengi had never heard of Starfleet. It was innocent enough.
There's a line in one of the old 'The Best of Trek' books written just before TNG aired, in which it's speculated that the major reason for the Klingon-Federation alliance was to counter the 'Ferengi threat' That did not age well
I think the Farengi, as the 'space goblins' of Star Trek, actually had a big impact on how goblins in general are portrayed in other fantasy settings as well, when you look at modern portrayals of goblins in other media they can range from primal and violent to something not unlike DS9 Farengi
"Acquisition" is not really a continuity error. Prior to "The Last Outpost', it's established that there were many "rumors" about the Ferengi. They're even mentioned in "Encounter at Far Point" and are known to the Federation. "The Battle" established that there was at least unofficial contact with them. No reason that the events of "Acquisition" couldn't even be part of that long tradition of Ferengi lore, rumors and speculation.
And given the Borg's unusually low species designation for them, it's clear that at least some Ferengi were very far trveled. So a group of them being so far from home fits nicely as well.
@@OmegablueWolf and even though the Archer Enterprise crew had come across the name before there was nothing said about what they looked like or any tech or bio info
I've always wanted to write the scene of Archer and crew giving the mission report to Starfleet of their encounter with the strange big eared aliens that had giant tushies for heads...
Quark was possibly the most complex character in all of star trek. The way armin portrayed him was brilliant. I can't wait for him to return in season two of Picard. (Yes he'll reprise the role) There's a TH-cam video of armin on a talkshow changing from himself to quark and how he got into character in real live is just amazing.
I never liked them until DS9, I think making their culture basically the epitome of capitalism with all it's stereotypes not just intact but embraced, was a good move even if a little cheesy.
For sure a wise decision to reassign Ferengi as die-hard capitalists (with some minor exclusions) instead of main antagonists. I think it was a good idea having species like that, they might not be very likeable for several reasons but they definitely provided some sort of diversity into Star Trek universe... Anyway I`m disappointed not to see D`kora destroying a couple of Bird of Prey`s 🙃
Well they were still meant to be die-hard capitalists as the main antagonist, but I'm glad they're not both. I mean TNG is basically meant to show that socialism and social equality is the future and how we will eventually be prosperous. So of course the ferengi's were meant to be capitalist bad guys since capitalism is directly contrary to socialism.
@@1hybodus I`m sure TNG was meant to be communist since it`s the final stage that was never achieved as for now, whereas socialism is something in the middle of the way that took it`s place in certian countries, including mine. But this is just a lyrical digression. So yeah, the main diffeence between TNG Ferengi and DS9 is that the second ones wouldn`t attack the Federation flagship neither do other similar acts haha. Both were capitalists, true. I also didn`t like TNG Ferengi moved kinda like chimps which was too ridiculous
@@1hybodus Technically it’s not really socialism. Socialism (or at least how Karl Marx saw it) is when the workers rise up against the factory or business owners and take direct control of the businesses themselves, then the workers control the means of production.
I hate the ferangi in the early characterisations, they were just ‘silly’ however in DSP 9, they were fantastic, full rich deep characters that developed nicely. Dax really helped support their role
I once read a comment which I am going to paraphrase here: "In TNG when I saw a Ferengi I thought 'oh no...', in DS9 when I saw a Ferengi I though 'alright, what's next?'".
I agree that the shift in tone the species took in DS9 was a huge improvement but, one thing from their original appearance I'd have liked to see retained is those Marauder starships. It would make sense to see the Grand Nagus transported by one.
I want to say that DS9 is also MY favorite Star Trek. I also think Armin Shimerman was absolutely FANTASTIC as Quark - he was one of my favorite characters. And "Little Green Men," as well as "Business as Usual" are some of my favorite episodes.
My main quibble with how the Ferenghi were portrayed isn't really with Ferenghi themselves (although I agree with pretty much every point in this video); it's with the way the crew of the Enterprise reacted to them. S2:EP5, The Perfect Mate, was problematic for a lot of reasons many other people have named. But it caught my eye when they beam the two "stranded" Ferenghi on board and Riker says, "Find them a room far away from mine" or words to that effect. For their ongoing claims to have eliminated racism, that stood out to me even as a kid. Like Lily said in First Contact, where were your "evolved sensibilities" then?
As a kid, I always referred to them as "butt-heads", whenever I mentioned them to my mother. I haven't seen this show in years and looking at them now, I can see why I referred to them as such haha.
Even in TNG the last outpost wasn't the actual first encounter with the ferangi. Just the first official one. The whole story of the Stargazer was that Picard lost it after a battle with an unknown assailant that ended up being the Ferangi.
I love how much effort you put into the videos, showing images from the show that actually pertain to the topic. And I love your voice! Thank you for informative and entertaining content!
My wife and I record most of our tv programs and that includes DS9. If it has Ferengi involvement it will be watched first!! I understand the introduction and involvement of Ferengi is a bit out of context but it really doesn't matter to us.
A Ferengi was on the bridge once.. true it was the episode where Warff is traveling in many dimensions of possibility but for one brief alternate universe, he's on the helm with one as I think navigator. :3
I hope Armin understands that lots of fans just chalk up The Last Outpost to the “early-installment weirdness” that always exists in Sci-Fi. Rather than any complaint about his particular performance.
How TNG treated the Ferengi really made that show feel very intolerant and sour, DS9 made them deeper and more relatable. TNG had a habit of portraying itself as woke and tolerant but anyone that was different was painted in a very unflattering light, and that often holds true in many parts of society today.
It's almost like the socialist view of "everyone who is like us and obeys our collective is a saint and anyone who violates our ideas of purity is Satan" is kind of part of why they can never create anything lasting.
I always thought of it as a product of Gene and the time he was born to. He was very forward thinking and progressive.... For his time. By the time of TNG he was old. He had not grown past where he was when he was younger and had in fact become stuck in his ways. Meanwhile those around him were half his age and as a result inherently more progressive thanks to having been exposed to a more liberal world and thus having developed deeper understandings and less surfical considerations of the topics. Whenever someone acts like gene was super progressive just remember: Gene didn't have to put all the women in "dresses", more appropriately called long shirts, that barely covered their bums while standing perfectly still let alone while active. (Yes some males wore the same outfit but it didn't make sense for either and that was highly uncommon)
I noticed that the introduction of the cardassians actually seems to have replaced the ferengi war with the cardassian war, as the stargazer was a ship that until the cardassian introduction, only was mentioned when it battled ferengi.
I personal head canon for how the original TNG Ferengi were so different from the DS9 ones, was that these were Ferengi on the fringe of their own territory. And that puts makes them rough and almost pirate like because of their distance from centers of commerce, they would be viewed as unsophisticated hicks by other Ferengi for their clumsy negotiating and resorting to force and cowardice so quickly. Where the Federation sends it's best at the frontier, the Ferengi send their worst.
It's too bad you didn't go to Las Vegas a couple of decades ago. The Hilton Casino and Resort had a whole Star Trek theme going, including Quark's Bar (where you could buy Klingon Blood Wine), and a motion simulator ride that included a live action Borg attack. I'm sure there was a Dabo game, but it's been a while, maybe not.
@@UncaAlbyGmail "live long and make profit" i believe was the motto at that establishment. (i saw a small piece about it on a commercial on the scifi channel many many years ago)
I like how Startrek makes first contact with aliens they only heard of. They dont understand each other's culture so it can lead to conflict. Then by the next series they either have a truce or are allies. Its also interesting that even when people are doing their best to be open, there can be biases that get ingrained. Worf was loved and given every chance to be whatever he wanted to be. He wanted to be Klingon, but for some reason he thought they were angry all the time, that they only cared about fighting. Then he meets them, and find its all been a romantic ideal made up by clues instead of conversation. The Klingons care about being honorable, more or less, at least the perception of it, its a powerful political tool. And the fighting? Well, they want to be remembered, and it takes grandiose actions to do it. The cost is often death. They don't want to die, but they aren't lying to themselves about whether itll happen or not. Rather than cry about it, their humor is very dark. The laughter is often louder than it makes sense to be, strained, and bitter.
i just found your channel recently because my huge love for babylon 5 and also myself being a big trekkie and sci fi nerd in general I manage to binge most of your videos last weekend ... not kidding... love what you do :)
There were missed opportunities with the Ferengi on DS9. Suppose, during the wars with the Dominion ( or the Borg) that the Ferengi Fleet shows up on the pretense that “Any percent of nothing is still nothing”. The Ferengi would be well justified with handling the supply lines and contributing troops and technology because they don’t want to be conquered next after the Federation.
Yes, the rootbeer speech given by Quark is memorable. I noticed a couple others while rewatching ST:DS9.In the episode where Sisko and Quark were captured on a planet by the Jem/Dominion Quark said that post capitalist Federation Humans saw themselves superior to Ferengi because they are reminded of how they used to be except Quark added Ferengi were better than humans because never put their own in concentration camps or exterminated whole civilizations on their homeworld.
Making Ferengi bad guys again(in some new series) can be done, but it has to be done correctly. Turn down the goofiness(as mentioned) and turn up the viciousness. All of this while keeping Ferengi characters like Quark and Rom who are civilian business owners. Civilian Ferengi can remain (somewhat) personable while military Ferengi remain vicious.
REQUEST: Please watch and review "Eureka" and "Warehouse 13". We lost both of these so SciFy could pay for "Defiance" which was interesting, but not as good IMHO.
Deep space nine really made the Ferengi a lovable race. Quark while greedy is very much product of the ferengi culture and has his own moral code that he follows.
there is a mistake here, Farangi is not an Arabic word, but a Persian word ,Farang (فرنگ) is a Persian and southeast Asian word that originally referred to the Franks (the major Germanic tribe) and later came to refer to Europeans in general. The word "Farang" is a cognate and originates from old french: "franc".
TNG began in the mid-80s. This is b/4 the collapse of the Soviet Union; a collapse which vastly discredited socialist idealism, at least for a few years. Roddenberry insisted on portraying the TNG Federation as some kind of post-economic paradise, dedicated to art & intellectual pursuits. This quite different to the TOS Federation, there is no pretense of a perfect political order in the earlier series. If you look @ the examples Federation officials, at least the civilian ones, they are usually portrayed as obnoxious pompous asses. We have no sense the Federation is ideal. They have money, greed, ambition & narcissisml just an ordinary flawed human like society. The change of the Ferengi is a reflection of the rightward drift of the world post-Soviet Union.
I would like to think that most ‘first contact’ situations are actually the 5th or tenth contact with a lot of undocumented and unofficial contacts, some of which inevitably being due to time travel. After all, Vulcans had been on earth several times in the 20th century with Spock regularly time traveling as well as the carbon creek incident.
Ferengi became comic relief for the most part, but DS9 really did give them some nuance and dignity, especially when Quark says to Sisko that, for all humanity's snobbery towards their way of life, they never stooped to the barbarity that we had in the past. It seems to be a mirror of how Humans were initially looked down on by Vulcans as being reckless and dangerous, when they nearly drove themselves to extinction centuries before.
Shout out to Nog. First Ferengi in star fleet. He brought that unique Ferengi flair to star fleet and it served him well. He found his lobes for business within star fleet. DS9 gave us all a better look at the rules of acquisition which are the governing principles of “a good Ferengi” it helped us understand their culture planet and politics. The Grand Nagus was also a character among the Ferengi people that we didn’t know much about before DS9.
I have always found them to be pretty much completely silly. It's as if they tried to make them menacing and people found them silly, so they just leaned in to that silliness. While there were some serious, even poignant moments in DS9, there was still decidedly more Grand Nagus and Brunt silliness. They are silly, just silly.
The interactions of the Ferengi on DS9 are superb. All 3 of the main Ferengi are well done, and Brunt is awesome. I love Little Green Men, it's one of my fave DS9 episodes, and The Magnificent Ferengi is brilliant, both funny and clever. Shimmerman, Grodenchik and Eisenberg were excellent, they just seemed to understand the roles really well, which can't be easy when playing an alien race. The interactions between Odo and Quark are some of the best in the show, you can totally believe they knew one another from the time when the station was Terok Nor.
Favorite non-Star Trek ship design? The Eagle Transporter from Space: 1999 and the Rocinante from The Expanse are my favorite hero ships that also look and feel real... Allowing for the context of time in the case of the Eagle -- In 1975, that thing looked amazingly prescient! But if adherence to reality is optional, then The White Star from Babylon 5! One of the most elegantly designed ship I've even seen! Even standing still it looks fast AF! ;-]
I think a lot of people forget that the Ferengi in that Voyager episode were originally featured in a TNG episode, where they got lost in the Delta Quadrant despite warnings from Geordi (I believe).
It's a real credit to the DS9 writers that they took what were basically "space goblins" and turned them into a fleshed out and believable culture. I remember when Quark pretty much called out Sisko and pointed out Ferengi didn't have anywhere near as dark and bloodstained history as humanity.
Enjoyable analysis of the evolving Ferengi. One correction. The Enterprise episode titled Acquisition was from season one. It’s episode 18 in that first season.
Even during the first appearance of the Ferengi (ST:TNG 'The Last Outpost), the use of Ferengi in many Star Trek episodes was in the capacity of Comic Relief. Yeah, in a few storylines they posed a serious threat - most of those were outliers. Data may of put in best in that TNG first season episode generically equating Ferengi as Yankee Traders.
This was fun. Thanks. Honorable mention to the superb actor, Wallace Shawn, who portrayed the Grand Nagus a time or two. My personal favorite DS9 episode featuring the Ferengi will always be, “Little Green Men.” #oomox
Huge props to the writers and Shimerman. They took something that just didn't work and transformed it into something different. Something it was never meant to be, perhaps, but something of equal value.
I've always seen the Ferengi as having two large factions. Merchants and Military. Merchants being the most numerous, of course. But...during ENT era, they seemed to be mostly pirates and scavengers. But a split happened between then and TNG. Where the first Ferengi we meet (in TNG) are the military faction, Quark of DS9 and the rst are of the merchant faction. I even have a small head-canon, that the militant Ferengi are of a hereditary sect of sorts. Merchants pay and produce food and equiptment for the militants and the militants protect the merchants and the Ferengi Alliance.
DS9 hit it out of the park. In a lot of ways, I think it's the best ST franchise. It had all the things you wanted and all the things you didn't know you needed. It had a few misses, but its success out weighs any lows it may have had.
Ah, yes, the Ferengi. The race I got one glimpse of when older family members were watching "Star Tracks", as 6-year-old me thought it was called, and I was like "Nope! Not watching any show that has anything that ugly in it!"
I saw a post online once that was something like “when you’ve watched enough Star Trek to find some of the weird aliens hot” and showed Garak and Weyoun and Shran and a couple others, lol
One interesting DS9 character was Nog, a minor character who would later join the Federation as a cadet because he felt he couldn't make it as a businessman in his own society. What I found so compelling about him after he returned as an ensign is that..well, he makes a damned good starfleet officer. Its like the subtext of what the Ferengi value- intense study of contracts, a need for fast mental calculations, a cunning mind that quickly learns how to operate within established rules AND how to find the loopholes in those rules....Nog basically took all those things we generally consider a negative about Ferengi and managed to thrive in the regulations and principles of the Federation. He takes his duties as seriously as any good Ferengi when executing a business arrangement, its just he pours that mindset into a generally more positive and moral direction than cheating customers and making profit.
I've seen a truly disturbing amount of Anti-Semitic comments on this video so I wanna make this absolutely clear-
If you make anti-semitic comments you will be banned from this channel.
Fuck off with that shit!
Really? where does antisemitism fit into star trek? really confusing Star trek earth is how the world should be, one a unified earth built on mutual respect and a common human goal of exploration, knowledge, bettering the whole of our species.
@@ashleyeldorado7750 Chuds abound everywhere, even among the fandom built around one of the most conceptually progressive sci-fi universes.
Steve Shives (from whence The Algorithm doubtless delivered me here) has dealt with the whole "get your SJW politics out of my silly sci-fi" phenomenon quite a bit in his Star Trek analysis videos.
It really ought to go without saying - and so, so sad that it must be said anyway. So, since it apparently must be - thank you for saying it.
And more so, engaging in the labor of taking out the trash. I hate to imagine all the filth that you have to deal with so that we don't have to.
@Sir Ackbar You might be a little naive on this. I think you'll find that if you scratch the surface on these jokes, they're often reflective of an actual hatred and disgust, if you care to listen to the people making them, and ask them a few questions.
I can't believe there are Star Trek fans who are racists filled with hate. It's so absurd
From one dimensional silly villains, to a three dimensional nuanced species. It's quite an epic journey. You've got to love Star Trek. And a lot of that is owed to Armin Shimerman.
Thank you Armin!!,great job brother!😊
To be all fair, many factions was made silly in TNG by replacing real world inspired factions with fantasy archetypes.
In TOS we have Space America (Federation), Space Russia (Klingons) and Space Romans (Vulcans/Romulans)
In TNG they are Space Empire, Space Barbarians, and Space Elves respectively. Space Goblins (Ferengi) and Space Undead (Borg) just followed the suit.
In a hindsight, what DS9 writers did to make them look somehow realistic again, without breaking TNG lore, is nothing short of miracle work.
be assured, with the modern ST ,its right back to one dimensional silly villains.
@Jimmy De'Souza I think the conclusions you are supposed to draw is that since Quark and Rom are greedy Ferengi but aren't completely and totally horrible, that it is their culture which is flawed, not them as a people.
Star Trek has always suffered from the Planet Of Hats trope. What makes Armin Shimerman & his DS9 family stand out is, you can see people under the hats.
You know it’s gonna be a good episode when you hear “Liquidator Brunt, FCA”
Strange. We have a FCA (Financial Conduct Authority) in the UK with similar extensive powers 😂
"I don't want to be around these, POOR, people."
Quark had some Picard quality speeches
and a literal Picard speech near the end
His best imho was about how hypocritical the Federation is and about how they destroy individuality and different cultures just like the Borg and Dominion do, but with better pr.
And one lifted word for word.... Which rule of acquisition covers that?
@@lucasvincent2875 Oh probably the mid 100's or so. Heh heh. Actually I'd love to see a full list of all of them. The ones I've seen are fragmented.
@@xury12 You can find a full list of them online somewhere, I've seen them. Recognize that they were constructed by Hollywood writers intent on making Capitalism look bad, so they're not as consistent as you might want.
I really liked the moment when Quark went back to Fereginar and found his old Marauder Mo action figures. It was a nice callback to the original designs, and Quark playing with them was brilliant.
Marauder Mo, Ferenginar's G.I. Joe!
CSGraves Profit is half the battle! 😎
I liked that, too. I always hoped DS9 would establish that Armin Shimmerman's Ferengi from The Last Outpost was Quark's cousin. They could have poked fun at how silly the Ferengi military was.
@Afqwa wasn't that Leck
@Afqwa Except the Klingon Chef on DS9.
I always marvel with how many things DS9 did right with Star Trek, despite how much that show was supposedly antithetical to Roddenberry's vision of the series. Ferengi are just one of many examples of this in Trek.
Overall I think the Ferengi are a wonderful SciFi species. Much more complexly drawn than many others. But no one ever mentions that they are the sharpest dressers out there! (Cardassian Garek as tailor deserves mention here too) The colors, the fabrics, the patterns! So refreshing against a plethora of uniforms, or worse the continual same clothing items across an entire planet!
A friend pointed out how many of the metal collar adornments they wear are evocative of bow ties or Southern gentleman type string ties, which was somewhat revelatory to me. lol
I'd imagine as a species evolves to a point they can travel the stars irrelevant, childish and backward concepts like fashion are cast away.
@@kaitlyn__L 0+l
@@williamdavis9562 Doubtful. Fashion is often rather silly, yes, but most people have personal sensibilities about our own appearances.
Whether its as simple as preferring certain colors and/or materials, or as complex as feelings associated with historical context of different clothing styles, we all like to dress somewhat uniquely. It's part of our individuality, and I see no logical reason for it to ever go away.
@@williamdavis9562 Fashion is about expression. If you throw away fashion then you throw away art as well which at that point how are we any different from bland automatons?
Nog's arc is, I think, one of the most compelling arcs in all of DS9. To see him go from trying to be a "good Ferengi" to realizing he is never going to be one, and finally to realizing he doesn't need to be one. Then, in the end, becoming incredibly successful by metrics he chose rather than the ones society tried to put on him.
Also, I want to see Ishka and Lwaxana Troi working together on some plot. They would be completely unstoppable. Honestly, the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order should have just took those two to the Founder's world. The war would have been over by dinner.
I am just so upset Nog is dead. His character was so tenderly rendered. I'm just a year older than Aron. And the guy who played the Grand Nagus is one of my favorite actors of all time. Such a sweet man, still with us.
Not going to lie, the Ferengi stun whip is awesome! And they still fly around in croissants which I love.
The stun whip and the marauder are awesome :)
I still use the whip in STO.
The Ferengi ship design is actually reminiscent of their emblem, that of course looks like two opposing hands grasping the same object, to infer their greediness.
A continuity error in enterprise? Why I've never herd of such an outlandish statement
Continuity is non existent in star trek by design lol
When your show spans decades of lore and you really want to use something iconic. I don't see the issue with what Enterprise did. At least it didn't pull an STD or STP.
Acquisition was, in fact, a decent episode and they never did really know much about the Ferengi in that episode and the Ferengi had never heard of Starfleet. It was innocent enough.
Its taken 25 years for me to come to fully realize this, but Quark is the best written and most 3 dimensional character in all of Star Trek
Quark, Rom and Nog are some of my favorite characters in all of Trek.
@Super Abound, agreed.
Quark added an element of depth to the show.
There's a line in one of the old 'The Best of Trek' books written just before TNG aired, in which it's speculated that the major reason for the Klingon-Federation alliance was to counter the 'Ferengi threat'
That did not age well
I think the Farengi, as the 'space goblins' of Star Trek, actually had a big impact on how goblins in general are portrayed in other fantasy settings as well, when you look at modern portrayals of goblins in other media they can range from primal and violent to something not unlike DS9 Farengi
mmmm no
Like wow goblins.
@@denisesilveira3427 Actually those ones seem based on people from New Jersey
@@denisesilveira3427 "Ah...a potential customer!"
Pulled from the vault new to the world
Liquidator Brunt F.C.A!
One of my favourite things from DS9.
"Acquisition" is not really a continuity error. Prior to "The Last Outpost', it's established that there were many "rumors" about the Ferengi. They're even mentioned in "Encounter at Far Point" and are known to the Federation. "The Battle" established that there was at least unofficial contact with them. No reason that the events of "Acquisition" couldn't even be part of that long tradition of Ferengi lore, rumors and speculation.
And given the Borg's unusually low species designation for them, it's clear that at least some Ferengi were very far trveled. So a group of them being so far from home fits nicely as well.
Plus the Ferengi in Acquisition never mention their species name.
@@OmegablueWolf and even though the Archer Enterprise crew had come across the name before there was nothing said about what they looked like or any tech or bio info
I've always wanted to write the scene of Archer and crew giving the mission report to Starfleet of their encounter with the strange big eared aliens that had giant tushies for heads...
Quark was possibly the most complex character in all of star trek. The way armin portrayed him was brilliant.
I can't wait for him to return in season two of Picard. (Yes he'll reprise the role)
There's a TH-cam video of armin on a talkshow changing from himself to quark and how he got into character in real live is just amazing.
I never liked them until DS9, I think making their culture basically the epitome of capitalism with all it's stereotypes not just intact but embraced, was a good move even if a little cheesy.
The Ferengi were made awesome in DS9. Also how could you forget "Little Green Men?"
*slaps ear*
They showed a brief clip from it tho
"It's poisonous. Also highly addictive."
The Persian word “faranji” was coined from and referred originally to the Franks and later was adopted in Arabic to refer to Europeans in general.
Oy bey!
This must have led to the Thai word "farang" for white foreigners.
Something so funny about the way Brunt says"Quaaarrrrrk!" That and when Grand Nagus says "A FEEEMAAALLLLEE?!"
I loved Zek.
For sure a wise decision to reassign Ferengi as die-hard capitalists (with some minor exclusions) instead of main antagonists. I think it was a good idea having species like that, they might not be very likeable for several reasons but they definitely provided some sort of diversity into Star Trek universe...
Anyway I`m disappointed not to see D`kora destroying a couple of Bird of Prey`s 🙃
Well they were still meant to be die-hard capitalists as the main antagonist, but I'm glad they're not both. I mean TNG is basically meant to show that socialism and social equality is the future and how we will eventually be prosperous. So of course the ferengi's were meant to be capitalist bad guys since capitalism is directly contrary to socialism.
@@1hybodus I`m sure TNG was meant to be communist since it`s the final stage that was never achieved as for now, whereas socialism is something in the middle of the way that took it`s place in certian countries, including mine.
But this is just a lyrical digression. So yeah, the main diffeence between TNG Ferengi and DS9 is that the second ones wouldn`t attack the Federation flagship neither do other similar acts haha. Both were capitalists, true. I also didn`t like TNG Ferengi moved kinda like chimps which was too ridiculous
Star Trek was created by a bunch of Lefties so, of course, the Capitalists were the "bad guys". That's just their reality.
@@1hybodus Technically it’s not really socialism. Socialism (or at least how Karl Marx saw it) is when the workers rise up against the factory or business owners and take direct control of the businesses themselves, then the workers control the means of production.
Quark was, and is, one of my favourite characters in all of ST.
always refreshing when we get a Trek ep on this channel
I hate the ferangi in the early characterisations, they were just ‘silly’ however in DSP 9, they were fantastic, full rich deep characters that developed nicely. Dax really helped support their role
I once read a comment which I am going to paraphrase here:
"In TNG when I saw a Ferengi I thought 'oh no...', in DS9 when I saw a Ferengi I though 'alright, what's next?'".
@@marnie4629 Haha yeah when a Ferengi like Quark, Rom, Nog and the Nagus to name a few appears first thin DS9, you know it’s ‘showtime’ 😂
TNG made me hate the Ferengi, DS9 made me appreciate them.
"The Battle" was a quite good episode. I wouldn't say the Ferengi ruined it.
TNG didn't make me hate the Ferengi; it actually made me notice the arrogance of the Federation.
FordGTGuy I hope it is a two way street because TNG ferengi were just as arrogant, just with money rather then interstellar politics.
That was the idea !!
Personally, I liked the TNG Ferengi.
The ferengi are very loyal to their familes. I love how they evolved in DS9 and you could find respect for them once you understood them
Armin was BORN to play Quark. There is no way his character would have been so successful had it not been for him.
I agree that the shift in tone the species took in DS9 was a huge improvement but, one thing from their original appearance I'd have liked to see retained is those Marauder starships. It would make sense to see the Grand Nagus transported by one.
I want to say that DS9 is also MY favorite Star Trek. I also think Armin Shimerman was absolutely FANTASTIC as Quark - he was one of my favorite characters. And "Little Green Men," as well as "Business as Usual" are some of my favorite episodes.
My main quibble with how the Ferenghi were portrayed isn't really with Ferenghi themselves (although I agree with pretty much every point in this video); it's with the way the crew of the Enterprise reacted to them. S2:EP5, The Perfect Mate, was problematic for a lot of reasons many other people have named. But it caught my eye when they beam the two "stranded" Ferenghi on board and Riker says, "Find them a room far away from mine" or words to that effect. For their ongoing claims to have eliminated racism, that stood out to me even as a kid. Like Lily said in First Contact, where were your "evolved sensibilities" then?
Fantastic summation of the Ferengi and their appearances. DS9 wouldn't have been the same without Quark, Rom and Nog.
As a kid, I always referred to them as "butt-heads", whenever I mentioned them to my mother. I haven't seen this show in years and looking at them now, I can see why I referred to them as such haha.
Even in TNG the last outpost wasn't the actual first encounter with the ferangi. Just the first official one. The whole story of the Stargazer was that Picard lost it after a battle with an unknown assailant that ended up being the Ferangi.
I love how much effort you put into the videos, showing images from the show that actually pertain to the topic. And I love your voice! Thank you for informative and entertaining content!
My wife and I record most of our tv programs and that includes DS9. If it has Ferengi involvement it will be watched first!! I understand the introduction and involvement of Ferengi is a bit out of context but it really doesn't matter to us.
A Ferengi was on the bridge once.. true it was the episode where Warff is traveling in many dimensions of possibility but for one brief alternate universe, he's on the helm with one as I think navigator. :3
I hope Armin understands that lots of fans just chalk up The Last Outpost to the “early-installment weirdness” that always exists in Sci-Fi. Rather than any complaint about his particular performance.
Thanks for the upload, I've always loved the Ferengi.
Same, the Magnificent Ferengi was my favorite. Man I watched it three times in a day
How TNG treated the Ferengi really made that show feel very intolerant and sour, DS9 made them deeper and more relatable. TNG had a habit of portraying itself as woke and tolerant but anyone that was different was painted in a very unflattering light, and that often holds true in many parts of society today.
It's almost like the socialist view of "everyone who is like us and obeys our collective is a saint and anyone who violates our ideas of purity is Satan" is kind of part of why they can never create anything lasting.
I always thought of it as a product of Gene and the time he was born to.
He was very forward thinking and progressive.... For his time.
By the time of TNG he was old. He had not grown past where he was when he was younger and had in fact become stuck in his ways. Meanwhile those around him were half his age and as a result inherently more progressive thanks to having been exposed to a more liberal world and thus having developed deeper understandings and less surfical considerations of the topics.
Whenever someone acts like gene was super progressive just remember:
Gene didn't have to put all the women in "dresses", more appropriately called long shirts, that barely covered their bums while standing perfectly still let alone while active.
(Yes some males wore the same outfit but it didn't make sense for either and that was highly uncommon)
I noticed that the introduction of the cardassians actually seems to have replaced the ferengi war with the cardassian war, as the stargazer was a ship that until the cardassian introduction, only was mentioned when it battled ferengi.
The Ferengi are what got me interested in Star Trek and I love them and their culture.
I personal head canon for how the original TNG Ferengi were so different from the DS9 ones, was that these were Ferengi on the fringe of their own territory. And that puts makes them rough and almost pirate like because of their distance from centers of commerce, they would be viewed as unsophisticated hicks by other Ferengi for their clumsy negotiating and resorting to force and cowardice so quickly. Where the Federation sends it's best at the frontier, the Ferengi send their worst.
I would love to have a drink and play some dabo in Quarks bar, shake his hand after winning. But I would count my fingers after that handshake 😉
It's too bad you didn't go to Las Vegas a couple of decades ago. The Hilton Casino and Resort had a whole Star Trek theme going, including Quark's Bar (where you could buy Klingon Blood Wine), and a motion simulator ride that included a live action Borg attack. I'm sure there was a Dabo game, but it's been a while, maybe not.
@@UncaAlbyGmail "live long and make profit" i believe was the motto at that establishment. (i saw a small piece about it on a commercial on the scifi channel many many years ago)
@@UncaAlbyGmail I rode that ride -- it was great!
When Quark talks about losing creature Comforts at is probably the best monologue in all of Star Trek
I like how Startrek makes first contact with aliens they only heard of. They dont understand each other's culture so it can lead to conflict. Then by the next series they either have a truce or are allies. Its also interesting that even when people are doing their best to be open, there can be biases that get ingrained.
Worf was loved and given every chance to be whatever he wanted to be. He wanted to be Klingon, but for some reason he thought they were angry all the time, that they only cared about fighting. Then he meets them, and find its all been a romantic ideal made up by clues instead of conversation. The Klingons care about being honorable, more or less, at least the perception of it, its a powerful political tool.
And the fighting? Well, they want to be remembered, and it takes grandiose actions to do it. The cost is often death. They don't want to die, but they aren't lying to themselves about whether itll happen or not. Rather than cry about it, their humor is very dark. The laughter is often louder than it makes sense to be, strained, and bitter.
Anyone remember a computer game called Trade Wars 2002? That game had as antagonists the "Ferrengi" who came from the planet "Ferrengal"... Hmmm...
Well researched, great video. Thanks xx
i just found your channel recently because my huge love for babylon 5 and also myself being a big trekkie and sci fi nerd in general I manage to binge most of your videos last weekend ... not kidding... love what you do :)
There were missed opportunities with the Ferengi on DS9. Suppose, during the wars with the Dominion ( or the Borg) that the Ferengi Fleet shows up on the pretense that “Any percent of nothing is still nothing”. The Ferengi would be well justified with handling the supply lines and contributing troops and technology because they don’t want to be conquered next after the Federation.
A very good point! I agree, and that would've been awesome, if it had been written like that! ✨🍻✌✨
Armin Shimmerman was the Ferengi. He made the race with him as model.
Yes, the rootbeer speech given by Quark is memorable. I noticed a couple others while rewatching ST:DS9.In the episode where Sisko and Quark were captured on a planet by the Jem/Dominion Quark said that post capitalist Federation Humans saw themselves superior to Ferengi because they are reminded of how they used to be except Quark added Ferengi were better than humans because never put their own in concentration camps or exterminated whole civilizations on their homeworld.
those things are bad for business;
ethically abhorrent not a factor
The ferengi are awesome. I loved them
Well Star Trek has changed beyond recognition since JJ and Kurtzman got hold of it!
Making Ferengi bad guys again(in some new series) can be done, but it has to be done correctly. Turn down the goofiness(as mentioned) and turn up the viciousness. All of this while keeping Ferengi characters like Quark and Rom who are civilian business owners. Civilian Ferengi can remain (somewhat) personable while military Ferengi remain vicious.
REQUEST: Please watch and review "Eureka" and "Warehouse 13". We lost both of these so SciFy could pay for "Defiance" which was interesting, but not as good IMHO.
W13 started great but as the show went on, Flanderization ruined it. Shame, it had potential... and a badass HRW.
Deep space nine really made the Ferengi a lovable race. Quark while greedy is very much product of the ferengi culture and has his own moral code that he follows.
May I just say: “enterprise... was a bit of a continuity error” sums up much of the show
there is a mistake here, Farangi is not an Arabic word, but a Persian word ,Farang (فرنگ) is a Persian and southeast Asian word that originally referred to the Franks (the major Germanic tribe) and later came to refer to Europeans in general. The word "Farang" is a cognate and originates from old french: "franc".
The ferengi are my fav
TNG began in the mid-80s. This is b/4 the collapse of the Soviet Union; a collapse which vastly discredited socialist idealism, at least for a few years. Roddenberry insisted on portraying the TNG Federation as some kind of post-economic paradise, dedicated to art & intellectual pursuits. This quite different to the TOS Federation, there is no pretense of a perfect political order in the earlier series. If you look @ the examples Federation officials, at least the civilian ones, they are usually portrayed as obnoxious pompous asses. We have no sense the Federation is ideal. They have money, greed, ambition & narcissisml just an ordinary flawed human like society.
The change of the Ferengi is a reflection of the rightward drift of the world post-Soviet Union.
6:23 Technically it’s the United Earth/Human’s first real contact with the Ferengi since the Federation didn’t exist yet.
I would like to think that most ‘first contact’ situations are actually the 5th or tenth contact with a lot of undocumented and unofficial contacts, some of which inevitably being due to time travel. After all, Vulcans had been on earth several times in the 20th century with Spock regularly time traveling as well as the carbon creek incident.
Ferengi became comic relief for the most part, but DS9 really did give them some nuance and dignity, especially when Quark says to Sisko that, for all humanity's snobbery towards their way of life, they never stooped to the barbarity that we had in the past. It seems to be a mirror of how Humans were initially looked down on by Vulcans as being reckless and dangerous, when they nearly drove themselves to extinction centuries before.
Thank yobfor this. I have a soft spot for the Ferengi, and I've been fascinated by their culture since they first started developing it on DS9.
Shout out to Nog. First Ferengi in star fleet. He brought that unique Ferengi flair to star fleet and it served him well. He found his lobes for business within star fleet. DS9 gave us all a better look at the rules of acquisition which are the governing principles of “a good Ferengi” it helped us understand their culture planet and politics. The Grand Nagus was also a character among the Ferengi people that we didn’t know much about before DS9.
I have always found them to be pretty much completely silly. It's as if they tried to make them menacing and people found them silly, so they just leaned in to that silliness. While there were some serious, even poignant moments in DS9, there was still decidedly more Grand Nagus and Brunt silliness. They are silly, just silly.
DS9 wouldn't have been as successful as it was without Quark, Rom, and Nog. I enjoyed the Ferengi episodes 🙂
"Personal favorite Star Trek DS9", nice mine too I really wish it got a full remaster like in the clips shown in the 2018 DS9 documentary.
The interactions of the Ferengi on DS9 are superb. All 3 of the main Ferengi are well done, and Brunt is awesome. I love Little Green Men, it's one of my fave DS9 episodes, and The Magnificent Ferengi is brilliant, both funny and clever.
Shimmerman, Grodenchik and Eisenberg were excellent, they just seemed to understand the roles really well, which can't be easy when playing an alien race. The interactions between Odo and Quark are some of the best in the show, you can totally believe they knew one another from the time when the station was Terok Nor.
Favorite non-Star Trek ship design?
The Eagle Transporter from Space: 1999 and the Rocinante from The Expanse are my favorite hero ships that also look and feel real... Allowing for the context of time in the case of the Eagle -- In 1975, that thing looked amazingly prescient! But if adherence to reality is optional, then The White Star from Babylon 5! One of the most elegantly designed ship I've even seen! Even standing still it looks fast AF! ;-]
Quark and Nog in DS9 made the Farengi my favorite Star Trek race despite originally hating them
I think a lot of people forget that the Ferengi in that Voyager episode were originally featured in a TNG episode, where they got lost in the Delta Quadrant despite warnings from Geordi (I believe).
It's a real credit to the DS9 writers that they took what were basically "space goblins" and turned them into a fleshed out and believable culture. I remember when Quark pretty much called out Sisko and pointed out Ferengi didn't have anywhere near as dark and bloodstained history as humanity.
I love this breakdown.
💐🙏REST IN PEACE AARON🙏💐 You made the Nog character a fan favorite.
When I was a child I hated and scared of quark those teeth 😨 now he's my favourite
Enjoyable analysis of the evolving Ferengi. One correction. The Enterprise episode titled Acquisition was from season one. It’s episode 18 in that first season.
Quark and Nog were great! I liked the conniving barkeep idea with Quark who still did the right thing at times.
In your yard I am the Ferengi man, very odd and chunky. Sue the guard up the lake, there's sawdust and pizza, Yoda!
You should do some episodes highlighting certain actors Portrayals, such as long time actors or recurring actors, such as Jeffrey combs .
New sub. Upthumb on the video. PEACE
We always looked forward to DS9 when new episodes aired, and appearances by Amin Shimerman were a special treat.
It is great that as much depth as the Ferengi got, they were still silly and fun to watch.
I do so enjoy learning new things about nerdy stuff that I'm interested in .
Even during the first appearance of the Ferengi (ST:TNG 'The Last Outpost), the use of Ferengi in many Star Trek episodes was in the capacity of Comic Relief. Yeah, in a few storylines they posed a serious threat - most of those were outliers. Data may of put in best in that TNG first season episode generically equating Ferengi as Yankee Traders.
This was fun. Thanks. Honorable mention to the superb actor, Wallace Shawn, who portrayed the Grand Nagus a time or two. My personal favorite DS9 episode featuring the Ferengi will always be, “Little Green Men.” #oomox
Huge props to the writers and Shimerman. They took something that just didn't work and transformed it into something different. Something it was never meant to be, perhaps, but something of equal value.
I love the Ferengi.
They are one of my favorite species to have a love/hate relationship with.
And i love Armin Shimerman in general.
What an actor!
I've always seen the Ferengi as having two large factions.
Merchants and Military.
Merchants being the most numerous, of course.
But...during ENT era, they seemed to be mostly pirates and scavengers.
But a split happened between then and TNG.
Where the first Ferengi we meet (in TNG) are the military faction, Quark of DS9 and the rst are of the merchant faction.
I even have a small head-canon, that the militant Ferengi are of a hereditary sect of sorts.
Merchants pay and produce food and equiptment for the militants and the militants protect the merchants and the Ferengi Alliance.
DS9 hit it out of the park. In a lot of ways, I think it's the best ST franchise. It had all the things you wanted and all the things you didn't know you needed. It had a few misses, but its success out weighs any lows it may have had.
the interactions of Quark and Jadzia Dax were always cool to watch
Thank you Armin!
Ah, yes, the Ferengi. The race I got one glimpse of when older family members were watching "Star Tracks", as 6-year-old me thought it was called, and I was like "Nope! Not watching any show that has anything that ugly in it!"
I saw a post online once that was something like “when you’ve watched enough Star Trek to find some of the weird aliens hot” and showed Garak and Weyoun and Shran and a couple others, lol
you're talking about great heroes ships can't forget the serenity
I like the inclusion of the concept art for them, I remember seeing that in a Star Trek DVD magazine years ago.
One interesting DS9 character was Nog, a minor character who would later join the Federation as a cadet because he felt he couldn't make it as a businessman in his own society. What I found so compelling about him after he returned as an ensign is that..well, he makes a damned good starfleet officer. Its like the subtext of what the Ferengi value- intense study of contracts, a need for fast mental calculations, a cunning mind that quickly learns how to operate within established rules AND how to find the loopholes in those rules....Nog basically took all those things we generally consider a negative about Ferengi and managed to thrive in the regulations and principles of the Federation. He takes his duties as seriously as any good Ferengi when executing a business arrangement, its just he pours that mindset into a generally more positive and moral direction than cheating customers and making profit.
he still wants to make profit though and he would be a damn fine quartermaster of a supply depot
Interesting. I watched all of Enterprise and I didn't even remember an episode with Ferengi. Guess I'll have to go back and revisit that show :)
The Ferengi episodes of DS9 were the best arc in Star Trek, and it's not even close
Hearing that STO music always brings a smile to my face