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Before I start, I want to point out that I don't support that teacher's action and that teacher does deserve punishment. However, I want to point out that during my time as a preschool teacher, there are probably a few reasons why that teacher used that method to force feed the child. 1. I've came across several parents that expects teachers to feed their child 2-3 or more bottles of water a day; even though they don't drink water at home (Parents specified that the child does not drink at home, hence he/she MUST drink in school). OR, worse, they feed their child HONEY water/SUGAR water at home, which is not allowed in school. 2. Parents that feed junk food to their child at home as replacement meals, BUT expects them to finish their meals at school. According to parent's instructions, we are to record how much they ate and take a picture/video as evidence that their child is eating in school. Note that junk food contains high amount of sodium. School in preschool is healthy; no sodium/salt/sugar in school food. So yes, the child cannot get used to the bland food in school. 3. Please remember that some parents may get irritated with 1/2/3 child/children at home. But in school, the teacher has to deal with several students (sometimes up to 20+ to 1 teacher). We are only human, and we have feelings. To get to the root of this problem, ECDA should review teacher:children ratio, keep it healthy and review the teacher's workload... We are not photographers. If Primary School teachers don't need to take photos as evidence of lessons/routine, why do Preschool Teachers need to?
Pre sch teachers are expected to take photos of the routines but what is the purpose . It’s compromising the quality time they can spend with the chn. Presch should be fun & interaction with chn, not wasting time taking photos some of which are not natural.
I don't understand this argument. I understand some crazy parents are setting such ridiculous expectations for teachers. But shouldn't the reaction from the school or teachers be to say 'we can try but we too cannot force' or something of that nature?? If the parents react badly to that then good riddance to them anyway. Is there anything I'm missing in my underatanding?
Again, understand that I am NOT in anyway defending that teacher, just letting you know how it is like from our POV. That's what we always say, to try, but they still have such expectations. There were also parents who feedback at night, saying that their child fell sick because they didn't drink enough water in school... Also, understand that schools are still businesses. It is easy for you to say "good riddance" to them, I wish I can say that to them. But it reflects badly on the teacher if management receives such feedback from parents. Honestly, there were many ways to deal with that problem, it is sad that that particular teacher resorted to such means.@@goodperson6368
@@goodperson6368I'm not sure if the school can legally say we won't be doing this for your child because drinking water/eating food in a healthy manner as described by OP is to be expected to be done for all children. The only problem is when this isn't being replicated at home, thus for such children it's very difficult for the school to do. And you know in such situations the parents are going to report to MOE/MOH and post online that I just want my kid to eat/drink healthily but this school refuses to do it for my child.
@@goodperson6368 and then the parent will lodge a complain with the child care management and then the teacher will get repercussions from the management. Demanding parents are just creating problems for their own children when the teachers cannot meet with the demands.
John is so harshhhhh to Jared :((( feels like gaslighting. Bullying is never be justified, esp kids cause most of the time the victims are not in a place to protect themselves . You do not need to be bullied to learn about hierarchy. Im sure there are plenty many other ways to learn about it. There is nobody else but the bullies to blame. Its not Jared's fault for not taking away something from the incident, its not his mother's fault either. Stay strong Jared 💪🏼 very courageous for you to share about it and let the rest talk about your trauma
It's not jared's fault that he was bullied. But it's jared's fault if he doesn't learn from the mistake. No one is responsible for your growth other than yourself. It's delusional to think that every growth opportunity is safe and positive. Even safe and positive is subjective to every individual, you are bound to feel hurt. Learning how to control your emotions and think rationally after an obstacle is a trainable skill. This defines how competent you are overall. Pure technical competency is overrated.
@@JohnathanChuaaBro your statement is perfectly valid. Just that most people won't get it due to the lack of opportunity to face such situation. People like CEOs or Entreprenuers would probably agree with you because when hiring talents or when you are in a position to educate others, you have to think this through and realise its not so straightforward to define good or bad. Most improvements are made starting with self-accountability which is what you are trying to preach. Because at the end of the day a boss cannot blame other people for their failures because they are already at the top of the chain. Most employees will never see that unless they consciously choose to.
@@zYMz Mate, that still comes from a place of privilege, where you are allowed to ‘learn from being bullied’. You do know that bullying, depending on severity, can result in long lasting negative impact on one’s psychological state right? And how do you differentiate that from abuse? Do you tell victims of abuse, ‘learn from it’ ‘if you don’t learn, it’s your fault’ ‘the abuser is not to be blamed’ ‘society is just like that, we shouldn’t do anything to change the status quo for the better’. Do you hear how stupid you sound? What a crazy take.
@@zYMz sounds pretty easy to say.. dont think you have ever been bullied badly to the point of suicidial or go into a depression. Trauma to the point where people dont even have confidence.. or know what their values are... damn easy to say
Slightly crossed that this podcast got hijacked by the general topic of bullying (and the landing point seems to be how it is necessary without addressing a whole range of issues related to it) rather than focus on the Kinderland saga towards the end. To begin with, this panel which concerns parenting is missing a parent and a female perspective too. The subject of bullying warrants its own episode and I challenge the team to bring in a psychologist to properly examine this topic if it is truly of interest to you. It’s very easy for those who transcended the bullying and might have even become the bully themselves to say it is ‘necessary’ (as if not everyone goes through it at some point in their lives), but the truth is everyone is unique in how they handle and process the act of bullying. There have been instances where those who were bullied become serial killers, would you then call them a ‘necessary’ evil?
Mutual feelings of being slightly crossed despite them disclaiming they're not parents and that they're playing devil's advocate😢 Those who claim that they turned out fine despite being bullied, caned etc should really examine if they really turn out fine or are there trauma that they just don't recognize. And also these students are mere 1.5 to at most 3yo who are likely still unable to express themselves verbally and there's no way such bullying from a position of power is acceptable
Damn, this episode hits hard on the bullying part. I believe a lot of people who were bullied will relate to Jared because some people are really just not brought up well and inflicts hurt on others in their schooling days. While having a matured perspective like John helps now in retrospect, it is easier said than done to handle the situation back then. Especially when you're either a very clueless young victim or the victim's parents who most likely is not aware of it and when they are, is most likely unable to handle it properly.
22:38 truly disappointed at the approach this episode. there is literally a popular comic that describes the lasting effects of parental behavior that focuses on the negatives. why do you have to tell your kid - that is passionately describing their day to you, to shut up? then when they get older, you instead ask why do they not share their day with you anymore? i hope you dont have kids cause they will definitely grow up jaded and wish they were not born.
I'd like to give the benefit of dobut that John did not mean for it in a parental way (in this paricualr video timeframe) even though he said "anywhere" but more so in a school setting where many types of bullying take place.
My view is because these kids in videos are very young to protect themselves. They probably unable to voice for themselves. The environment should be safe for them. My expectations is I am okay the child is not fed than force the water/food down. There is choking hazard if they do this way. I understand teachers cannot be like parents be so loving but they should be a being that the child can approached when they are in danger or hurt. I think like John before I have kids but parenting is not only talk. I think in the future it would be good to invite someone with kids to discuss topic like this.
Agree. If the child is sick and needs water, they can always let the parents know and send the kids home so that parents can take them to hospital. Else, a healthy child would rather NOT drink than being force fed. PLUS the teacher kept smiling…
Parent of 3 kids here. Actually kids are surprisingly good at self regulating for water and food needs. Even for very young children and babies. They know how much to drink and eat and do not need to be forced .
Ermmm... some kids are really pampered that they wouldn't reach out for anything if it's not given to them. Literally need to be served.... the adults around over do for the kids and they can't be independent and be super passive. Some even tahan it till reach home...
@@angiemf9033 it isnt just the forcing of the water down the throat video.. there were others.. even if parents give those unreasonable instructions.. the IC as what mine does, just notes that the child refuses to drink.. dont have to force its that simple
I remembered my mom went down to the school to confront my bully when i was in primary school. Not only did i feel validated and know when to stand up to my bullies, I know that my mom will always be at my corner. Bullying never works. Please stop validating bullies
I have to disagree with Jon here. My view is that this is clearly a management flaw and a lack of communication between the school and parents. Yes, some parents are demanding, but schools can be firm and set up proper rules to defend themselves. For example, if parents complain that the child is not eating/drinking, explain that it’s the rules to allow children to self regulate and what has been done. Explain that force feeding is NOT allowed, simply because it is scientifically proven to instil fear among kids and cause them to detest food/water more. Schools should NOT give in to unreasonable requests or complaints from parents and should be firm about what is best for the kids, instead of resorting to such actions. Of course the main reason why this blew up is because the teacher was smiling when doing such actions
I think there are certain expectations when you put your child in a childcare. First and foremost, the child must be in a safe environment. I understand that children can be difficult and it can be tough for the childcare provider. Communication between parent and provider is important. While I don't think it is the responsibility of the childcare provider to raise a child, I do think that the child should not be abused regardless of any situation. In this case, I believe the repercussion is justified.
most importantly, the video seems to forgo the very fact that these toddlers are barely able to even articulate, much less defend/protect themselves in a space supposedly safe (c’mon abusing while smiling entirely repels the concept of being safe and any parent would rather struggle searching for alternatives no matter how tough than to pay/even have such ‘free’ childcare services) - not expecting those parental form of love, much less saying the same level as from parents etc, but minimally humane to these toddlers, which btw the smiling did not speak well of her (if any benefit of the doubt) having a moment/breakdown from expired patience even without having young kids, anyone could empathise or think of the scenario with their pets or elderly parents, with similar (if not less) helplessness - will you continue nursing them in the very same centre, with supposed assurance ‘this shall not happen again’, for the free service as compensation? everyone cringes at the videos, likened to horror films bc it is that fked up - there is no excuse tdk should have invited at least a parent with young kid(s) srly
Okay bullying, hard no lol. Accept lessons from people who mean well. Bullying is just abuse with bad intentions. Lots of people know why their bullies targeted them. “You’re fat and weak!” Cue the mental issues, body image issues, obsession with weight, etc. How bloody unnecessary is this sigh. If we think about this in terms of outcomes, i think it becomes clearer. You may: 1) find a point to improve on, as John mentioned; 2) develop trauma, as Jared did; 3) develop self-esteem issues, as i mentioned above. If we think in terms of probability, not that i have actual statistics but just common-sensically speaking, i think (2) is the most common, followed by (3) then (1). The minority may benefit from this subpar approach. The majority won’t. So it’s still a pretty terrible approach. I get that John’s point is to view it differently and try to avoid (2) & (3) therefore turning your hardship into a point of growth, but i think this is rare even for adults, what more children. At the end of the day, i think it should be more of “yes, these are all the reasons bullying is not tolerated, and here are suggestions for if you are undergoing it.” Then, as a side note under the latter, bring up the possibility of viewing it differently, but don’t push the point. Last thing you wanna do is push someone who already feels cornered right off the ledge because their safe space (you) is no longer perceived to be safe.
i got into similar bullied incident during Secondary school like Jared, i was also short and fat and incredibly gullible. But my Father took a different approach. He taught me how to fight 1v Many, he told me to keep my back against the wall at all times so i could see the punches coming, and aim for the throat, and balls. And if i could see an opportunity, i should run to a teacher as quickly as possible. Nevertheless I got in to many fights defending myself and got into a lot of trouble with the school for violence. But i never got bullied again, I even grew courage how to protect my friends from getting bullied.
i normally enjoy the devil’s advocate, but this time round i strongly disagree with John’s stance on bullying. In John’s view, there is an underlying assumption that bullying happens for a reason (victim violated social norms etc), and bullying is a feedback mechanism meant to benefit the victim. However in reality bullying doesn’t happen this way, it more often stems from the bully’s own lack of self esteem and the need to feel power and validation by putting others down. For all you know Jared could have been a pleasant child with good social cues, and he was picked conveniently just because he was alone at the wrong place wrong time. Just strongly pinning the blame on Jared after he shared about a time of vulnerability makes this episode especially hard to watch towards the end…
Jon, I’d mayyyyyyybe consider your argument if the teacher appeared distraught in the provision of care. The fact that she was smiling and doing it so nonchalantly clearly shows it’s her modus operandi.
@@JohnathanChuaa i just want to say I agree your point only of the kids are at least kindergarten. I used to think like you before I had kids. I think kids need to feel the connection to tell parents about the bully. Especially the teacher is in the power place. The kids in the videos are around 3. Not all 3 yo can really expressed bully. I think parents are furious because childcare environment should be safe for the child. Choking is very dangerous especially the kids are young and forced down like this.
Seriously speaking, how many teachers out there will abuse the students? Very very low. I am a parent of 2 young kids and I trust our Singapore system and teachers to whom we entrust. And we have to teach our kids too that they have to talk to us if they feel they are bullied by friends/ teachers in school. This requires building a trusting relationship with our children that they will be listened to and that what they said will be not ridiculed/ be put down unnecessarily. And I agree with John that we parents are not angels as well when we discipline our kids. There is definitely at least an episode or a phase in our parenting journey that we have mishandled the situations with our kids and live to regret. How many of us can proudly say that we have NEVER EVER hit our own child ONCE. Let me add more viewpoints to what could already have been mentioned. Suggestions: 1)Let's just mandate CCTV in classrooms in preschool and special needs schools so that teachers can have the piece of mind that they don't get unfairly blamed for accidents that can surely happen. Chances are higher that our teachers and supporting staff get emotionally abused by unreasonable parents and caregivers. Thus CCTV is a tool to help our educators get objective and fair judgement when incidents happen. 2) Be open to hearing comments and feedbacks from the teachers and others- sides of our kids that we might not be aware of. And be open to adjusting expectations of what our kids and us as parents can get from the schools that we pay for, especially if we have really tough kids with behavioural challenges. Let's not have this delusion that teachers will work wonders and they can save our kids from becoming rotten apples if we ourselves as parents cannot do anything to change them.
Respectfully, Jon's contrarian view of that teacher being pushed over the edge is flawed. It needs to be said that we are molded /damaged by the very people who had major stakes in bringing us up during our formative years. Often, these people are our loved ones (because they themselves were brought up the same way..vicious cycle). For the teacher to carry out those acts on the helpless small bodies and to be amused by her own actions, SHE HAS A WARPED IDEA OF HUMAN INTERACTIONS and child rearing. A person brought up in a 'normal' loving environment will recognise the atrocity of her actions and have guilt/conscience in even considering manhandling those young children, let alone acting them out in a condescending manner! Her body and verbal language scream of one who enjoys wielding power over the children / people in general. I do think she needs therapy...somewhere in her deep recesses, there are memories of similar treatments she had received from the adults around her when she was young. Why do you think the abused more often than not grow up to become perpetrators of similar or far worse abuse they endured at childhood? I shudder at what those other young spectators had imprinted in their minds just from watching the teachers.
Well... if you feel u need to force feed or drink in order to get the kid to consume, then why not just come up with clause for your preschool... to state that the teachers will try their best to feed the kids, but in the event of total disobedience, it will not be done so, and will relay this message to the parents? Any toddler, kid, teenager and adult, when feel thirsty, will automatically drink... its just part of our DNA for survival... This reminds me so much of SAF getting soldiers to half full bottle drink up when it was so unnecessary... and this practice in the SAF is no longer there for context.
I do not condone what the teacher did. However ecda has to look into the teacher chn ratio cos some Pte operators are working these teachers too hard. Pls do not judge till u are in these presch teachers shoes.
The US, for political reasons, only allows premium childcare centres. They shut down all non-luxury centres. Generally, the standard is quite decent, but... ... many parents cannot afford the childcare and therefore cannot pay to put their children there I think allowing sub-prime childcare centres is a good idea, although maybe the government can subsidise with more generous foreign worker quotas
the only way you can sort of justify the teacher's actions is if u see her doing it reluctantly and for the sake of the child, like 'u must drink water'. but the unnecessary rough handling, laughing/smiling, threatening - that just means she treats them like joke/playthings for her to push around. she's a monster.
Just yesterday, I spoke to a childcare teacher. She did not put her own child in the same centre she worked at, because the profile of the teachers are terrible. At Kinderland, the principal is well aware of the kind of teachers she has and how she has been treating the children.
good on Jared for sharing his experience. :) but I think bullying wasn't that relevant to this topic and is an entire discussion on its own. While I do agree that bullying is part of life and it is how we bounce back that matters, as evident from Jared's story, support system and how the situation is handled can easily go wrong even with the best intentions at heart. Ultimately, bullying is traumatic for many and is the damage to your self worth, anxiety and other mental disorders and sometimes suicidal thoughts and self harm resulted from the experience really worth the life lessons? what doesn't kill you makes you stronger ig, but as someone who has been the bully, the bullied, a bystander and helpless as a friend was being bullied, I wouldn't wish for anyone to be bullied.
If your mother is old and senile, unable to speak up and defend herself, would you think that she deserved to be abused by the nurses because she misbehaved?
Exactly. Extremely disappointed in this episode. He’s probably going to defend this line of thought saying “old people deserve to learn about social hierarchy” or some crap
Honestly this sounds like it is the norm especially among chinese teachers who come from china. I heard from my friend that there was a chinese teacher at a premium preschool at orchard road called kiddiwinkie who was supposedly at a senior level who rough handles younger age group kids to the point where there were hand marks on the kids. The kids would cry but since they are too young to voice out what the teacher did and since the hand marks go away by the time the kids go home, nobody finds out except the surrounding teachers who turn a blind eye due to the seniority of the chinese teacher.
The children at kinderland is below 3. Some cannot even speak in full sentences. 😒 They can learn about hierarchy through many other ways through their CCA appointments etc.
This is horrific. Those poor kids. Edit: There is NO excuse for child abuse. And thank you Jared for sharing your experience of being bullied. Hope you know that you did nothing wrong to deserve it. Bullies are often projecting their own insecurities etc onto others bc they have issues themselves (at home) and picks a punchbag for no reason (if it’s not you, it’s somebody else). FWIW I didnt have my mum to fight for me when I was getting bullied (much less my sister whom I shared it with) - I’m very much still fucked up. John’s stories sound very nice and idealistic but that’s far from reality. The trauma stays with you and I’m glad your mum put an end to the bullying.
Child abuse & bullying is not educative. It is vindictive. You are not teaching the child a lesson. You are using the child as a release valve for your anger & frustrations. In what world are there lessons to be drawn from this? I am seriously puzzled by John Chua's opinion.
It'll be more effective to place the focus on the beliefs /mindset of the bullies instead (e.g. intervention from the parents, teachers, counsellors to educate the bullies). Instead of expecting the victim to change so that they won't get bullied (depending on the context, e.g. it's another story if the victim provoked the bullies beforehand). Changing to please or prevent being bullied by others is not getting to the root of the issue. The issue is with the culture of bullying and not about the victim. For example, if a victim is bullied due to skin colour (which is also a part of physical appearance, somewhat similar to body size), the beliefs and mindset of the bullies should be corrected, instead of expecting the victims to change their skin colour. Succumbing to pressure and changing can't guarantee that the bullying will stop as well. Just like how some abusers will not stop abusing the victims, even though the victims changes to meet the abuser's expectations.
jon chua is right lah. and also, guidance on how to deal with bullies is v important. i think the adults completely failed jared there. the fact that his approach was to try and keep things quiet definitely emboldened the bullies. it's when you draw attention to the situation, and call them out loudly in front of witnesses, that they will think twice. then of course the next step is to just fight back. something I always thought was v toxic/cover ass (from the school's pov) was how they taught people in school that 'violence is NEVER the answer'. sorry, no. when it comes to self-defence and setting boundaries, you do what you have to do. even if u lose the fight, still must fight.
I can’t believe ppl here actually stand by bully and think it’s okay to be bullied to learn when you are still in school? School is meant to be a safe place not for teachers or other students to abuse or bully. The fact that the guys here actually second thought that maybe the kindergarten teachers force feed the children to drink is for the the children’s good, they need to get hydrated, blah blah blah. Please replay this video and hear yourself speaking again. So ridiculous. Also, please get someone to force feed yourself some water and tell me how you feel.
Totally agree! Somehow it only show what kind of background John grew up in that shaped his mentality. He uses his “confidence” to cover up his own insecurity, and even as an adult justify why he did such things to cover up his insecurity, utterly disgusting.. and thinking back.. he liked to overplay his experience in life.. “I got arrested before..” but for some small shit.. he seem to like to show and boost his masculine side, all just to cover up his insecurities. Feel sad for such people to justify bullying..
But schools are run by MOE, who pays a hefty salary. These are just childcare workers, who are paid peanuts. It is not reasonable to expect excellent work performance out of them. Ultimately, those children are still alive and healthy
I get jon chua point. My question would be, most parents don't spend 3-4yrs specialising in early childhood where you learn how to get kids to behave using a civilised manner. Hence, parents usually take the most straightforward manner. However, these teachers were trained, shouldn't they have been taught to handle difficult children through proper punishment? The teachers behaved as if they weren't trained. Is it the early childhood diploma/degrees programme failing OR is it the hiring process issue?
To be honest if I have kids, and they are problematic I will smacked them and let them wake up their ideas! Parents and teachers are both responsible, did the teachers inform the parents about their kids being problematic and were parents doing anything at home to discipline their kids to correct their behaviors? If teachers are only allowed to educate children, then responsibilities of disciplinary falls on the parents, and when children remains problematics should they be expelled from school? As school should never be burden with correcting the behaviors of kids. The current situation all over the world, parents are only providing their kids with necessities and materials needs, but rarely correcting their children behaviors, are parents really fulfilling the duties as parents? Or are they expecting teachers to take the role of educating and disciplining the children while parents just take the role of providing? If parents are only taking on the role of providing, how much authority do they have in deciding on what is acceptable/unacceptable disciplinary actions? Is it necessary for government interference? Parents shrinking responsibilities have recently been displayed in full on news where three teachers committed suicide in South Korea, if parenting problems are not corrected early in Singapore, the aftermath will be similar to South Korea.
Parents think they are paying for a service. And this service encompasses parenting. Childcare is synonymous with outsourced parenting. Which is technically true since the kids spend most of their time with the teachers instead of parents.
Very interesting points brought up. Especially appreciate John’s points (and bravery lol). Only watched halfway through for now. I think preschools have a fairly large profit margin, in response to JP’s point. Preschool teachers, if i’m not wrong, are very underpaid. MOE teachers aren’t paid well, but still draw a much more respectable salary compared to preschool teachers. Basically we’re not investing much in anything before primary school. Yet we expect preschool teachers to be “professionals”. They really aren’t, and this is not a slight to them. I might be exaggerating here but to piggyback on John’s comparison, if we think of MOE teachers as licensed nurses working in private or public hospitals, preschool teachers are more of the ones working in eldercare homes, for example. You hear atrocious stories, then realise that they aren’t trained the way you think they are/ought to be, earn peanuts, and are overworked esp for that amount of compensation. Doesn’t excuse the violence but certainly explains some recurring patterns.
As a parents myself (preschooler), I believe parents and teachers have to work hand in hand to teach their kids both in the education and life aspect. Without working or communicating together, usually these stuffs happens constantly but maybe not reported at such big scale.
On a lighter note... the segment where John Paul & Allison go around the hawker stalls for the Gula Melaka Award is a throwback to the time John Paul did the Search for the Best Poly Food with his previous company. 😂
The big rxn from parents is because of guilt. it’s likely not their first choice to leave their kids in childcare in the first place; so to know that their child could also be treated this way in their absence makes them feel guilt for putting their child in such a situation. That guilt then translates into anger.
I was teaching as an external enrichment service provider to the preschool setting. Once, i asked the class teacher about a girl who is exceptionally excited to share, but many times, it's too much that she interrupted and disrupted the lesson. I asked if she is like this in her regular class. Thr class teacher says no, she is very quiet and 'well-behaved'. They wouldn't dare. ”我一吼，他们怎么敢“（i see how would they dare today make noise once i yell at them" and she said it proudly. I was like.... not wonder. Got surpressed so much, and once she comes to my class where i got them to discuss and share ideas, this girl is seeking so much attention and trying to make her presence know. 😅😅😅 taught to shut up
Wrt to Dan's point on people having entitlement due to feelings being validated (22mins), i beg to disagree. I think there is a difference between validating your kids feeling (letting them know they're not alone, and encouraging them and empowering them to find a solution together) and being a helicopter parent who pays attention to all the nitty gritty of all the problems that the kids have and actively solves it for them without giving them a chance to solve it themselves. Our generation is perhaps raised by being told to man up, not having the chance to voice what we really feel and for some, we become people pleasers and we all pay for it when we're older, without realizing that we have traumas. Validating emotions I feel is important as long as the parent is not permissive (letting the kids do whatever they want without drawing boundaries)
Maybe the child doesn’t want to drink or eat because they are not hungry or thirsty? Why not just leave the food on the table and let them eat when their bodies tell them they are starving? Let nature do the calls, just like we use the toilet only when we need to, not being forced to go every few hours. Just sayin
The level of patience for care giver in is not as high as before. I remember very clearly when I was young, I had a super bad habit of keeping e food in my mouth. A simple lunch that could take a kid 30 mins max, I use like 2 hours, e principle had fed me to ensure I finish but no scold no beat … but inform my parents 😅 these days principles are barely seen, a lot of untrained teacher in kindergarten. E level of commitment is not the same d. All I can say to choose a school and trust the school, break your trust, change. Simple.
the only way to stop being builled is to stand up for yourself but for the preschool case, those children aren't 100% conscious/aware of what they are doing, I am certain there are other ways to handle aggressive and disobedient kids besides violence, just as handling depression. There is more than one way to handle besides therapy and counselling. For that, I disagreed with what john had said.
The US, for political reasons, only allows premium childcare centres. They shut down all non-luxury centres. Generally, the standard is quite decent, but... ... many parents cannot afford the childcare and therefore cannot pay to put their children there I think allowing sub-prime childcare centres is a good idea, although maybe the government can subsidise with more generous foreign worker quotas
Regarding whether the kid would remember. I say they might, I have foggy memories but I was in ***** ****. (Blanko since they left one branch in Singapore) they force feed me greenbean soup because that is all we had for all tea time. The memory is not as clear but I get nauseous when I see green bean soup and till this day, I cant drink green bean soup at all 😅
22:07 isn't that more of constructive feedback? Though it stings, I wouldn't categorise it as bullying, I've also experienced physical bullying like Jared but during poly days for 1.5 years lmao
I kind of share the same sentiments as John Chua. I think we can get it out of the way that we condone NEITHER child abuse NOR bullying. but In the midst of coming up with a reply, I realised that my comment was too long and both topics have a lot to talk about or explore, and so I gave up lol. Really 2 topics combined in 1 episode cannot sia lol.
Back when I was in Pri/Sec school, I don't really drink ANY plain water except sweet drinks from recess. I would literally water the grass on the way home so I wouldn't be questioned so I'm very thankful none of my teachers back then were forcing me to drink water like this, I can't imagine the fear. Also, I hope Jared gets closure! What Jon said was pretty on point. 💕
hmmm.. I remembered how I was bullied from kindergarten to secondary school and it does affect my self-esteem.. so... John from what you said about your background and all, dont seem like you ever gotten bullied and how bad it was for others, and you think that everyone should be a bully.. So I dont think you shouldn't just assume things and that mindset of "its ok to bully" is disturbing.... totally not cool..
From my POV, many parents force feed their child. Its unavoidable when the kid is being difficult, only difference is that we force feed SAFELY and don't go to the extend of pulling their heads back or pulling them down. Yes we will smack them but not at places where it is dangerous. If you do that to an adult, sure we can take it. However the kids are still developing and their body is fragile. Also points mentioned around the 20min mark, bullying and 'abuse' do shape us growing up. There are 3 types, the bully, normal one, the bullied. As john pointed out towards the end, how one learn from their experience is also how they choose to take the key takeaways
i hate kids, unless they are mine. I do not have kids but seeing kids being abuse at this level pisses the crap out of me, the level of trauma... If i abuse my kids its my problem, who the eff are you to abuse my kids #period. Big John thanks for the alternative perspective on bullying... been on my mind but can't put it as fairly as you. But Jared big shout out to you for bringing it up, sometimes people may need to fight back in some ways shapes and forms. - The Frog in Hot Water should be a good analogy.
If my kid was forced to drink water in such a rough way, what is the impact here? All I see is my kid will drink water without causing trouble in future cause he knows that if he don't, he is going to get 1 x good one. Kids at such young age don't remember, but they learn, they know, they test water and boundary. No one else except the parents should shoulder the burden of raising a child. If the parents genuinely care about the well being and development of the child, they would have stayed home to care for them instead of working. All these are just leverages for the parents to get more out of the bucks they paid; go see how many actually pulled their child out due to this incident. This is no different in a company outsource something to the vendor then just whack the vendor when something small happens.
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Before I start, I want to point out that I don't support that teacher's action and that teacher does deserve punishment. However, I want to point out that during my time as a preschool teacher, there are probably a few reasons why that teacher used that method to force feed the child.
1. I've came across several parents that expects teachers to feed their child 2-3 or more bottles of water a day; even though they don't drink water at home (Parents specified that the child does not drink at home, hence he/she MUST drink in school). OR, worse, they feed their child HONEY water/SUGAR water at home, which is not allowed in school.
2. Parents that feed junk food to their child at home as replacement meals, BUT expects them to finish their meals at school. According to parent's instructions, we are to record how much they ate and take a picture/video as evidence that their child is eating in school. Note that junk food contains high amount of sodium. School in preschool is healthy; no sodium/salt/sugar in school food. So yes, the child cannot get used to the bland food in school.
3. Please remember that some parents may get irritated with 1/2/3 child/children at home. But in school, the teacher has to deal with several students (sometimes up to 20+ to 1 teacher). We are only human, and we have feelings. To get to the root of this problem, ECDA should review teacher:children ratio, keep it healthy and review the teacher's workload... We are not photographers. If Primary School teachers don't need to take photos as evidence of lessons/routine, why do Preschool Teachers need to?
Pre sch teachers are expected to take photos of the routines but what is the purpose . It’s compromising the quality time they can spend with the chn. Presch should be fun & interaction with chn, not wasting time taking photos some of which are not natural.
I don't understand this argument. I understand some crazy parents are setting such ridiculous expectations for teachers. But shouldn't the reaction from the school or teachers be to say 'we can try but we too cannot force' or something of that nature?? If the parents react badly to that then good riddance to them anyway.
Is there anything I'm missing in my underatanding?
Again, understand that I am NOT in anyway defending that teacher, just letting you know how it is like from our POV. That's what we always say, to try, but they still have such expectations. There were also parents who feedback at night, saying that their child fell sick because they didn't drink enough water in school...
Also, understand that schools are still businesses. It is easy for you to say "good riddance" to them, I wish I can say that to them. But it reflects badly on the teacher if management receives such feedback from parents.
Honestly, there were many ways to deal with that problem, it is sad that that particular teacher resorted to such means.@@goodperson6368
@@goodperson6368I'm not sure if the school can legally say we won't be doing this for your child because drinking water/eating food in a healthy manner as described by OP is to be expected to be done for all children. The only problem is when this isn't being replicated at home, thus for such children it's very difficult for the school to do. And you know in such situations the parents are going to report to MOE/MOH and post online that I just want my kid to eat/drink healthily but this school refuses to do it for my child.
@@goodperson6368 and then the parent will lodge a complain with the child care management and then the teacher will get repercussions from the management.
Demanding parents are just creating problems for their own children when the teachers cannot meet with the demands.
20:38 Shoutout to Jared for opening up about being bullied!
yah lah. fair enough. feel like cutting jared a bit more slack now cuz it does explain why he's the way he is. hope he finds himself one day
@@alui5362 whotf are u sia why anybody care if u cut him some slack
if he was fat and tall, the outcome would have been reversed...sorry, but that's life here.
John is so harshhhhh to Jared :((( feels like gaslighting.
Bullying is never be justified, esp kids cause most of the time the victims are not in a place to protect themselves . You do not need to be bullied to learn about hierarchy. Im sure there are plenty many other ways to learn about it.
There is nobody else but the bullies to blame. Its not Jared's fault for not taking away something from the incident, its not his mother's fault either.
Stay strong Jared 💪🏼 very courageous for you to share about it and let the rest talk about your trauma
😢 sorry Jared.
It's not jared's fault that he was bullied. But it's jared's fault if he doesn't learn from the mistake. No one is responsible for your growth other than yourself.
It's delusional to think that every growth opportunity is safe and positive. Even safe and positive is subjective to every individual, you are bound to feel hurt.
Learning how to control your emotions and think rationally after an obstacle is a trainable skill. This defines how competent you are overall. Pure technical competency is overrated.
@@JohnathanChuaaBro your statement is perfectly valid. Just that most people won't get it due to the lack of opportunity to face such situation.
People like CEOs or Entreprenuers would probably agree with you because when hiring talents or when you are in a position to educate others, you have to think this through and realise its not so straightforward to define good or bad.
Most improvements are made starting with self-accountability which is what you are trying to preach.
Because at the end of the day a boss cannot blame other people for their failures because they are already at the top of the chain. Most employees will never see that unless they consciously choose to.
@@zYMz Mate, that still comes from a place of privilege, where you are allowed to ‘learn from being bullied’. You do know that bullying, depending on severity, can result in long lasting negative impact on one’s psychological state right? And how do you differentiate that from abuse? Do you tell victims of abuse, ‘learn from it’ ‘if you don’t learn, it’s your fault’ ‘the abuser is not to be blamed’ ‘society is just like that, we shouldn’t do anything to change the status quo for the better’.
Do you hear how stupid you sound? What a crazy take.
@@zYMz sounds pretty easy to say.. dont think you have ever been bullied badly to the point of suicidial or go into a depression. Trauma to the point where people dont even have confidence.. or know what their values are... damn easy to say
Slightly crossed that this podcast got hijacked by the general topic of bullying (and the landing point seems to be how it is necessary without addressing a whole range of issues related to it) rather than focus on the Kinderland saga towards the end. To begin with, this panel which concerns parenting is missing a parent and a female perspective too. The subject of bullying warrants its own episode and I challenge the team to bring in a psychologist to properly examine this topic if it is truly of interest to you. It’s very easy for those who transcended the bullying and might have even become the bully themselves to say it is ‘necessary’ (as if not everyone goes through it at some point in their lives), but the truth is everyone is unique in how they handle and process the act of bullying. There have been instances where those who were bullied become serial killers, would you then call them a ‘necessary’ evil?
Mutual feelings of being slightly crossed despite them disclaiming they're not parents and that they're playing devil's advocate😢 Those who claim that they turned out fine despite being bullied, caned etc should really examine if they really turn out fine or are there trauma that they just don't recognize. And also these students are mere 1.5 to at most 3yo who are likely still unable to express themselves verbally and there's no way such bullying from a position of power is acceptable
Damn, this episode hits hard on the bullying part. I believe a lot of people who were bullied will relate to Jared because some people are really just not brought up well and inflicts hurt on others in their schooling days. While having a matured perspective like John helps now in retrospect, it is easier said than done to handle the situation back then. Especially when you're either a very clueless young victim or the victim's parents who most likely is not aware of it and when they are, is most likely unable to handle it properly.
Felt like John and Jon swapped characters in this ep 😅
22:38 truly disappointed at the approach this episode. there is literally a popular comic that describes the lasting effects of parental behavior that focuses on the negatives. why do you have to tell your kid - that is passionately describing their day to you, to shut up? then when they get older, you instead ask why do they not share their day with you anymore? i hope you dont have kids cause they will definitely grow up jaded and wish they were not born.
I agree.
I'd like to give the benefit of dobut that John did not mean for it in a parental way (in this paricualr video timeframe) even though he said "anywhere" but more so in a school setting where many types of bullying take place.
My view is because these kids in videos are very young to protect themselves. They probably unable to voice for themselves. The environment should be safe for them. My expectations is I am okay the child is not fed than force the water/food down. There is choking hazard if they do this way. I understand teachers cannot be like parents be so loving but they should be a being that the child can approached when they are in danger or hurt. I think like John before I have kids but parenting is not only talk. I think in the future it would be good to invite someone with kids to discuss topic like this.
Agree. If the child is sick and needs water, they can always let the parents know and send the kids home so that parents can take them to hospital. Else, a healthy child would rather NOT drink than being force fed. PLUS the teacher kept smiling…
Parent of 3 kids here. Actually kids are surprisingly good at self regulating for water and food needs. Even for very young children and babies. They know how much to drink and eat and do not need to be forced .
Some parents are particular that their child has to drink all the water in the bottle by the end of the day
Ermmm... some kids are really pampered that they wouldn't reach out for anything if it's not given to them. Literally need to be served.... the adults around over do for the kids and they can't be independent and be super passive. Some even tahan it till reach home...
@@angiemf9033 it isnt just the forcing of the water down the throat video.. there were others.. even if parents give those unreasonable instructions.. the IC as what mine does, just notes that the child refuses to drink.. dont have to force its that simple
I remembered my mom went down to the school to confront my bully when i was in primary school. Not only did i feel validated and know when to stand up to my bullies, I know that my mom will always be at my corner. Bullying never works. Please stop validating bullies
I have to disagree with Jon here. My view is that this is clearly a management flaw and a lack of communication between the school and parents. Yes, some parents are demanding, but schools can be firm and set up proper rules to defend themselves. For example, if parents complain that the child is not eating/drinking, explain that it’s the rules to allow children to self regulate and what has been done. Explain that force feeding is NOT allowed, simply because it is scientifically proven to instil fear among kids and cause them to detest food/water more. Schools should NOT give in to unreasonable requests or complaints from parents and should be firm about what is best for the kids, instead of resorting to such actions. Of course the main reason why this blew up is because the teacher was smiling when doing such actions
I think there are certain expectations when you put your child in a childcare. First and foremost, the child must be in a safe environment. I understand that children can be difficult and it can be tough for the childcare provider. Communication between parent and provider is important. While I don't think it is the responsibility of the childcare provider to raise a child, I do think that the child should not be abused regardless of any situation. In this case, I believe the repercussion is justified.
IMO, what Jared’s mom did makes sense. But the school handled it really badly.
most importantly, the video seems to forgo the very fact that these toddlers are barely able to even articulate, much less defend/protect themselves in a space supposedly safe (c’mon abusing while smiling entirely repels the concept of being safe and any parent would rather struggle searching for alternatives no matter how tough than to pay/even have such ‘free’ childcare services) - not expecting those parental form of love, much less saying the same level as from parents etc, but minimally humane to these toddlers, which btw the smiling did not speak well of her (if any benefit of the doubt) having a moment/breakdown from expired patience
even without having young kids, anyone could empathise or think of the scenario with their pets or elderly parents, with similar (if not less) helplessness - will you continue nursing them in the very same centre, with supposed assurance ‘this shall not happen again’, for the free service as compensation?
everyone cringes at the videos, likened to horror films bc it is that fked up - there is no excuse
tdk should have invited at least a parent with young kid(s) srly
Okay bullying, hard no lol. Accept lessons from people who mean well. Bullying is just abuse with bad intentions.
Lots of people know why their bullies targeted them. “You’re fat and weak!” Cue the mental issues, body image issues, obsession with weight, etc. How bloody unnecessary is this sigh.
If we think about this in terms of outcomes, i think it becomes clearer. You may: 1) find a point to improve on, as John mentioned; 2) develop trauma, as Jared did; 3) develop self-esteem issues, as i mentioned above. If we think in terms of probability, not that i have actual statistics but just common-sensically speaking, i think (2) is the most common, followed by (3) then (1). The minority may benefit from this subpar approach. The majority won’t. So it’s still a pretty terrible approach.
I get that John’s point is to view it differently and try to avoid (2) & (3) therefore turning your hardship into a point of growth, but i think this is rare even for adults, what more children. At the end of the day, i think it should be more of “yes, these are all the reasons bullying is not tolerated, and here are suggestions for if you are undergoing it.” Then, as a side note under the latter, bring up the possibility of viewing it differently, but don’t push the point. Last thing you wanna do is push someone who already feels cornered right off the ledge because their safe space (you) is no longer perceived to be safe.
i got into similar bullied incident during Secondary school like Jared, i was also short and fat and incredibly gullible. But my Father took a different approach. He taught me how to fight 1v Many, he told me to keep my back against the wall at all times so i could see the punches coming, and aim for the throat, and balls. And if i could see an opportunity, i should run to a teacher as quickly as possible. Nevertheless I got in to many fights defending myself and got into a lot of trouble with the school for violence. But i never got bullied again, I even grew courage how to protect my friends from getting bullied.
i normally enjoy the devil’s advocate, but this time round i strongly disagree with John’s stance on bullying.
In John’s view, there is an underlying assumption that bullying happens for a reason (victim violated social norms etc), and bullying is a feedback mechanism meant to benefit the victim. However in reality bullying doesn’t happen this way, it more often stems from the bully’s own lack of self esteem and the need to feel power and validation by putting others down. For all you know Jared could have been a pleasant child with good social cues, and he was picked conveniently just because he was alone at the wrong place wrong time.
Just strongly pinning the blame on Jared after he shared about a time of vulnerability makes this episode especially hard to watch towards the end…
Jon, I’d mayyyyyyybe consider your argument if the teacher appeared distraught in the provision of care. The fact that she was smiling and doing it so nonchalantly clearly shows it’s her modus operandi.
Eh fair point. I wanna clarify that I am not defending that teacher k. Just teachers in general.
@@JohnathanChuaa i just want to say I agree your point only of the kids are at least kindergarten. I used to think like you before I had kids. I think kids need to feel the connection to tell parents about the bully. Especially the teacher is in the power place. The kids in the videos are around 3. Not all 3 yo can really expressed bully. I think parents are furious because childcare environment should be safe for the child. Choking is very dangerous especially the kids are young and forced down like this.
Seriously speaking, how many teachers out there will abuse the students? Very very low. I am a parent of 2 young kids and I trust our Singapore system and teachers to whom we entrust. And we have to teach our kids too that they have to talk to us if they feel they are bullied by friends/ teachers in school. This requires building a trusting relationship with our children that they will be listened to and that what they said will be not ridiculed/ be put down unnecessarily.
And I agree with John that we parents are not angels as well when we discipline our kids. There is definitely at least an episode or a phase in our parenting journey that we have mishandled the situations with our kids and live to regret. How many of us can proudly say that we have NEVER EVER hit our own child ONCE.
Let me add more viewpoints to what could already have been mentioned.
Suggestions:
1)Let's just mandate CCTV in classrooms in preschool and special needs schools so that teachers can have the piece of mind that they don't get unfairly blamed for accidents that can surely happen.
Chances are higher that our teachers and supporting staff get emotionally abused by unreasonable parents and caregivers. Thus CCTV is a tool to help our educators get objective and fair judgement when incidents happen.
2) Be open to hearing comments and feedbacks from the teachers and others- sides of our kids that we might not be aware of. And be open to adjusting expectations of what our kids and us as parents can get from the schools that we pay for, especially if we have really tough kids with behavioural challenges. Let's not have this delusion that teachers will work wonders and they can save our kids from becoming rotten apples if we ourselves as parents cannot do anything to change them.
When the childcare service is more than a university education in Singapore, then the level of expectations will high
Respectfully, Jon's contrarian view of that teacher being pushed over the edge is flawed. It needs to be said that we are molded /damaged by the very people who had major stakes in bringing us up during our formative years. Often, these people are our loved ones (because they themselves were brought up the same way..vicious cycle). For the teacher to carry out those acts on the helpless small bodies and to be amused by her own actions, SHE HAS A WARPED IDEA OF HUMAN INTERACTIONS and child rearing. A person brought up in a 'normal' loving environment will recognise the atrocity of her actions and have guilt/conscience in even considering manhandling those young children, let alone acting them out in a condescending manner! Her body and verbal language scream of one who enjoys wielding power over the children / people in general. I do think she needs therapy...somewhere in her deep recesses, there are memories of similar treatments she had received from the adults around her when she was young. Why do you think the abused more often than not grow up to become perpetrators of similar or far worse abuse they endured at childhood? I shudder at what those other young spectators had imprinted in their minds just from watching the teachers.
Agreed! To clarify I’m not defending this teacher in particular k. Just frustrated teachers in general.
@Irisbeacon well said!
Well... if you feel u need to force feed or drink in order to get the kid to consume, then why not just come up with clause for your preschool... to state that the teachers will try their best to feed the kids, but in the event of total disobedience, it will not be done so, and will relay this message to the parents? Any toddler, kid, teenager and adult, when feel thirsty, will automatically drink... its just part of our DNA for survival... This reminds me so much of SAF getting soldiers to half full bottle drink up when it was so unnecessary... and this practice in the SAF is no longer there for context.
They are too young to understand that its part of life. Any stressors during developmental years will affect them
I do not condone what the teacher did. However ecda has to look into the teacher chn ratio cos some Pte operators are working these teachers too hard. Pls do not judge till u are in these presch teachers shoes.
The US, for political reasons, only allows premium childcare centres. They shut down all non-luxury centres. Generally, the standard is quite decent, but... ... many parents cannot afford the childcare and therefore cannot pay to put their children there
I think allowing sub-prime childcare centres is a good idea, although maybe the government can subsidise with more generous foreign worker quotas
Preschool teacher here. Thanks for John’s input, he will be a great parent to partner with.
If the child does not eat, just tell the parents, no excuse to do water boarding !
There shouldnt be any violent in school, no matter how disobedient a child is. Violence to a child will groom them to be a violent adult.
the only way you can sort of justify the teacher's actions is if u see her doing it reluctantly and for the sake of the child, like 'u must drink water'. but the unnecessary rough handling, laughing/smiling, threatening - that just means she treats them like joke/playthings for her to push around. she's a monster.
yah... my exact same thought - she's treating the toddlers like a plaything 😡and that she is a MONSTER!! 😱
Just yesterday, I spoke to a childcare teacher. She did not put her own child in the same centre she worked at, because the profile of the teachers are terrible.
At Kinderland, the principal is well aware of the kind of teachers she has and how she has been treating the children.
Yea, but maybe she don't need to pay them much salary? So it is quite a bit of savings
we need an AMA from some current and former S-tier school bully
good on Jared for sharing his experience. :) but I think bullying wasn't that relevant to this topic and is an entire discussion on its own. While I do agree that bullying is part of life and it is how we bounce back that matters, as evident from Jared's story, support system and how the situation is handled can easily go wrong even with the best intentions at heart. Ultimately, bullying is traumatic for many and is the damage to your self worth, anxiety and other mental disorders and sometimes suicidal thoughts and self harm resulted from the experience really worth the life lessons? what doesn't kill you makes you stronger ig, but as someone who has been the bully, the bullied, a bystander and helpless as a friend was being bullied, I wouldn't wish for anyone to be bullied.
If your mother is old and senile, unable to speak up and defend herself, would you think that she deserved to be abused by the nurses because she misbehaved?
If it is a cheap eldercare centre, then yes. Abuse does work, remember that. It is about whether it is worth it to you, as the hirer of the services
Exactly. Extremely disappointed in this episode. He’s probably going to defend this line of thought saying “old people deserve to learn about social hierarchy” or some crap
Honestly this sounds like it is the norm especially among chinese teachers who come from china. I heard from my friend that there was a chinese teacher at a premium preschool at orchard road called kiddiwinkie who was supposedly at a senior level who rough handles younger age group kids to the point where there were hand marks on the kids. The kids would cry but since they are too young to voice out what the teacher did and since the hand marks go away by the time the kids go home, nobody finds out except the surrounding teachers who turn a blind eye due to the seniority of the chinese teacher.
The children at kinderland is below 3. Some cannot even speak in full sentences. 😒 They can learn about hierarchy through many other ways through their CCA appointments etc.
This is horrific. Those poor kids.
Edit: There is NO excuse for child abuse. And thank you Jared for sharing your experience of being bullied. Hope you know that you did nothing wrong to deserve it. Bullies are often projecting their own insecurities etc onto others bc they have issues themselves (at home) and picks a punchbag for no reason (if it’s not you, it’s somebody else). FWIW I didnt have my mum to fight for me when I was getting bullied (much less my sister whom I shared it with) - I’m very much still fucked up. John’s stories sound very nice and idealistic but that’s far from reality. The trauma stays with you and I’m glad your mum put an end to the bullying.
Child abuse & bullying is not educative. It is vindictive. You are not teaching the child a lesson. You are using the child as a release valve for your anger & frustrations. In what world are there lessons to be drawn from this? I am seriously puzzled by John Chua's opinion.
It'll be more effective to place the focus on the beliefs /mindset of the bullies instead (e.g. intervention from the parents, teachers, counsellors to educate the bullies). Instead of expecting the victim to change so that they won't get bullied (depending on the context, e.g. it's another story if the victim provoked the bullies beforehand).
Changing to please or prevent being bullied by others is not getting to the root of the issue. The issue is with the culture of bullying and not about the victim. For example, if a victim is bullied due to skin colour (which is also a part of physical appearance, somewhat similar to body size), the beliefs and mindset of the bullies should be corrected, instead of expecting the victims to change their skin colour.
Succumbing to pressure and changing can't guarantee that the bullying will stop as well. Just like how some abusers will not stop abusing the victims, even though the victims changes to meet the abuser's expectations.
jon chua is right lah. and also, guidance on how to deal with bullies is v important. i think the adults completely failed jared there. the fact that his approach was to try and keep things quiet definitely emboldened the bullies. it's when you draw attention to the situation, and call them out loudly in front of witnesses, that they will think twice. then of course the next step is to just fight back. something I always thought was v toxic/cover ass (from the school's pov) was how they taught people in school that 'violence is NEVER the answer'. sorry, no. when it comes to self-defence and setting boundaries, you do what you have to do. even if u lose the fight, still must fight.
Parents expects the teachers to be more loving than parents themselves.
say no to abuse man!
I can’t believe ppl here actually stand by bully and think it’s okay to be bullied to learn when you are still in school? School is meant to be a safe place not for teachers or other students to abuse or bully. The fact that the guys here actually second thought that maybe the kindergarten teachers force feed the children to drink is for the the children’s good, they need to get hydrated, blah blah blah. Please replay this video and hear yourself speaking again. So ridiculous. Also, please get someone to force feed yourself some water and tell me how you feel.
Totally agree! Somehow it only show what kind of background John grew up in that shaped his mentality. He uses his “confidence” to cover up his own insecurity, and even as an adult justify why he did such things to cover up his insecurity, utterly disgusting.. and thinking back.. he liked to overplay his experience in life.. “I got arrested before..” but for some small shit.. he seem to like to show and boost his masculine side, all just to cover up his insecurities. Feel sad for such people to justify bullying..
But schools are run by MOE, who pays a hefty salary. These are just childcare workers, who are paid peanuts. It is not reasonable to expect excellent work performance out of them. Ultimately, those children are still alive and healthy
Favourite episode so far, pls have john voice out his actual opinions more. Love it.
If I get cancelled and need to crowdfund pls donate leh. 😂
JC OF let's gooooooooo 😂
I get jon chua point. My question would be, most parents don't spend 3-4yrs specialising in early childhood where you learn how to get kids to behave using a civilised manner. Hence, parents usually take the most straightforward manner.
However, these teachers were trained, shouldn't they have been taught to handle difficult children through proper punishment?
The teachers behaved as if they weren't trained.
Is it the early childhood diploma/degrees programme failing OR is it the hiring process issue?
Of course the teachers shouldn't. Dude... what is wrong with you? Do you know their pathetic salaries? Pay peanuts, get monkeys
Jared... i understand you cause i was once getting bully in Secondary School. Thank you for sharing your story.
To be honest if I have kids, and they are problematic I will smacked them and let them wake up their ideas! Parents and teachers are both responsible, did the teachers inform the parents about their kids being problematic and were parents doing anything at home to discipline their kids to correct their behaviors? If teachers are only allowed to educate children, then responsibilities of disciplinary falls on the parents, and when children remains problematics should they be expelled from school? As school should never be burden with correcting the behaviors of kids. The current situation all over the world, parents are only providing their kids with necessities and materials needs, but rarely correcting their children behaviors, are parents really fulfilling the duties as parents? Or are they expecting teachers to take the role of educating and disciplining the children while parents just take the role of providing? If parents are only taking on the role of providing, how much authority do they have in deciding on what is acceptable/unacceptable disciplinary actions? Is it necessary for government interference? Parents shrinking responsibilities have recently been displayed in full on news where three teachers committed suicide in South Korea, if parenting problems are not corrected early in Singapore, the aftermath will be similar to South Korea.
Parents think they are paying for a service. And this service encompasses parenting. Childcare is synonymous with outsourced parenting. Which is technically true since the kids spend most of their time with the teachers instead of parents.
Next time I see you on the road being problematic, I smack you also. Can?
Very interesting points brought up. Especially appreciate John’s points (and bravery lol). Only watched halfway through for now.
I think preschools have a fairly large profit margin, in response to JP’s point. Preschool teachers, if i’m not wrong, are very underpaid. MOE teachers aren’t paid well, but still draw a much more respectable salary compared to preschool teachers.
Basically we’re not investing much in anything before primary school. Yet we expect preschool teachers to be “professionals”. They really aren’t, and this is not a slight to them.
I might be exaggerating here but to piggyback on John’s comparison, if we think of MOE teachers as licensed nurses working in private or public hospitals, preschool teachers are more of the ones working in eldercare homes, for example. You hear atrocious stories, then realise that they aren’t trained the way you think they are/ought to be, earn peanuts, and are overworked esp for that amount of compensation. Doesn’t excuse the violence but certainly explains some recurring patterns.
As a parents myself (preschooler), I believe parents and teachers have to work hand in hand to teach their kids both in the education and life aspect. Without working or communicating together, usually these stuffs happens constantly but maybe not reported at such big scale.
On a lighter note...
the segment where John Paul & Allison go around the hawker stalls for the Gula Melaka Award is a throwback to the time John Paul did the Search for the Best Poly Food with his previous company. 😂
The big rxn from parents is because of guilt. it’s likely not their first choice to leave their kids in childcare in the first place; so to know that their child could also be treated this way in their absence makes them feel guilt for putting their child in such a situation. That guilt then translates into anger.
Whose choice to have kids ?? Rly hate such excuses. U wanna have kids u commit.
I was teaching as an external enrichment service provider to the preschool setting.
Once, i asked the class teacher about a girl who is exceptionally excited to share, but many times, it's too much that she interrupted and disrupted the lesson. I asked if she is like this in her regular class. Thr class teacher says no, she is very quiet and 'well-behaved'. They wouldn't dare. ”我一吼，他们怎么敢“（i see how would they dare today make noise once i yell at them" and she said it proudly.
I was like.... not wonder. Got surpressed so much, and once she comes to my class where i got them to discuss and share ideas, this girl is seeking so much attention and trying to make her presence know.
😅😅😅 taught to shut up
Wrt to Dan's point on people having entitlement due to feelings being validated (22mins), i beg to disagree. I think there is a difference between validating your kids feeling (letting them know they're not alone, and encouraging them and empowering them to find a solution together) and being a helicopter parent who pays attention to all the nitty gritty of all the problems that the kids have and actively solves it for them without giving them a chance to solve it themselves.
Our generation is perhaps raised by being told to man up, not having the chance to voice what we really feel and for some, we become people pleasers and we all pay for it when we're older, without realizing that we have traumas. Validating emotions I feel is important as long as the parent is not permissive (letting the kids do whatever they want without drawing boundaries)
Maybe the child doesn’t want to drink or eat because they are not hungry or thirsty? Why not just leave the food on the table and let them eat when their bodies tell them they are starving? Let nature do the calls, just like we use the toilet only when we need to, not being forced to go every few hours. Just sayin
The level of patience for care giver in is not as high as before. I remember very clearly when I was young, I had a super bad habit of keeping e food in my mouth. A simple lunch that could take a kid 30 mins max, I use like 2 hours, e principle had fed me to ensure I finish but no scold no beat … but inform my parents 😅 these days principles are barely seen, a lot of untrained teacher in kindergarten. E level of commitment is not the same d. All I can say to choose a school and trust the school, break your trust, change. Simple.
the only way to stop being builled is to stand up for yourself but for the preschool case, those children aren't 100% conscious/aware of what they are doing, I am certain there are other ways to handle aggressive and disobedient kids besides violence, just as handling depression. There is more than one way to handle besides therapy and counselling. For that, I disagreed with what john had said.
The US, for political reasons, only allows premium childcare centres. They shut down all non-luxury centres. Generally, the standard is quite decent, but... ... many parents cannot afford the childcare and therefore cannot pay to put their children there
I think allowing sub-prime childcare centres is a good idea, although maybe the government can subsidise with more generous foreign worker quotas
Regarding whether the kid would remember. I say they might, I have foggy memories but I was in ***** ****. (Blanko since they left one branch in Singapore) they force feed me greenbean soup because that is all we had for all tea time. The memory is not as clear but I get nauseous when I see green bean soup and till this day, I cant drink green bean soup at all 😅
John said it so perfectly!!! Totally agree when listening, parent of 2.
22:07 isn't that more of constructive feedback? Though it stings, I wouldn't categorise it as bullying, I've also experienced physical bullying like Jared but during poly days for 1.5 years lmao
in kindergarten my teacher used to lock pple in the cupboard for like if they don't sleep and are talking during nap time.
I kind of share the same sentiments as John Chua. I think we can get it out of the way that we condone NEITHER child abuse NOR bullying. but In the midst of coming up with a reply, I realised that my comment was too long and both topics have a lot to talk about or explore, and so I gave up lol. Really 2 topics combined in 1 episode cannot sia lol.
Back when I was in Pri/Sec school, I don't really drink ANY plain water except sweet drinks from recess. I would literally water the grass on the way home so I wouldn't be questioned so I'm very thankful none of my teachers back then were forcing me to drink water like this, I can't imagine the fear. Also, I hope Jared gets closure! What Jon said was pretty on point. 💕
Not trying to fight with you but the kids in the videos looks like they are around 3. If they are around primary school of course nothing wrong.
Can’t hide dehydration from parents. Teachers won’t be stupid enough to empty the bottle and claim the kids have drank it
@@imairmeli oh no no I'm not saying what they did was right. I'm just saying I would be scared af if this happened to me as a pri school kid haha
If child don't want to drink water, can just use baby bottle. Many kids use baby bottle for a long time.
Kudos to John for being objective.
hmmm.. I remembered how I was bullied from kindergarten to secondary school and it does affect my self-esteem.. so... John from what you said about your background and all, dont seem like you ever gotten bullied and how bad it was for others, and you think that everyone should be a bully.. So I dont think you shouldn't just assume things and that mindset of "its ok to bully" is disturbing.... totally not cool..
We need to have more standards for these organisations
Would u like it… if u are forced to drink in such a manner?
I been waiting for this !
4 eps in a week damnnn
anyway happy teachers day
Fully support Johns pov
From my POV, many parents force feed their child. Its unavoidable when the kid is being difficult, only difference is that we force feed SAFELY and don't go to the extend of pulling their heads back or pulling them down. Yes we will smack them but not at places where it is dangerous. If you do that to an adult, sure we can take it. However the kids are still developing and their body is fragile.
Also points mentioned around the 20min mark, bullying and 'abuse' do shape us growing up. There are 3 types, the bully, normal one, the bullied. As john pointed out towards the end, how one learn from their experience is also how they choose to take the key takeaways
Those parents are abusive. They should be charged.
Can force feed be without risk? And how do you even determine what is safe force feeding?
Jon’s comments about not learning the right lesson 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
More all male podcasts! Feel like you guys are more comfortable voicing out controversial opinions when it's just the boys
i hate kids, unless they are mine. I do not have kids but seeing kids being abuse at this level pisses the crap out of me, the level of trauma... If i abuse my kids its my problem, who the eff are you to abuse my kids #period.
Big John thanks for the alternative perspective on bullying... been on my mind but can't put it as fairly as you. But Jared big shout out to you for bringing it up, sometimes people may need to fight back in some ways shapes and forms. - The Frog in Hot Water should be a good analogy.
Johnathan become therapist this session
If John was a therapist, then the patient confirm suicide 😂
If my kid was forced to drink water in such a rough way, what is the impact here? All I see is my kid will drink water without causing trouble in future cause he knows that if he don't, he is going to get 1 x good one. Kids at such young age don't remember, but they learn, they know, they test water and boundary.
No one else except the parents should shoulder the burden of raising a child. If the parents genuinely care about the well being and development of the child, they would have stayed home to care for them instead of working. All these are just leverages for the parents to get more out of the bucks they paid; go see how many actually pulled their child out due to this incident. This is no different in a company outsource something to the vendor then just whack the vendor when something small happens.
Yea, money talks
Algooooooooooooooo