Best 645 film cameras in 2022? Pentax 645N vs Mamiya 645 Pro
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- The Pentax 645N & Mamiya 645 Pro both make great medium format options if you want a camera with auto-advance capabilities and other advanced features. I break down some of the core differences in this video. I also compare the manual-advance Bronica ETRS, and share why one of these three options might suit you better than the other.
Note: Many of the following are affiliate links. You can use them at no extra cost to yourself, but in turn, help support me with a small commission on qualifying purchases.
🎥 Reshoot Australia - reshoot.com.au/
🎞️ Buy 35mm & 120 film - bit.ly/48iOnL4
📷 Pentax 645N - bit.ly/3tkpfF9
📷 Mamiya 645 Pro - bit.ly/3RQ81c4
📷 Bronica ETRS - bit.ly/3TuMy9P
🌍 Urth filters & camera accessories - bit.ly/45AP2Gy
🎵 Artlist.io - Music, Footage & SFX. Get 2 months FREE - bit.ly/2vNloCi
►SUPPORT
🖼️ PRINTS - hashem.darkroom.com/
☕ Buy me a Coffee - www.buymeacoffee.com/pushingfilm
📘 Buy my Zine - www.exaframe.com/product/sund...
👕 Merch Shop - pushingfilm.myspreadshop.com
►WHAT I USE FOR HOME DEVELOPING AND SCANNING:
Paterson developing tank - amzn.to/3TwrFek
Rocket air blower - amzn.to/2G0pZpN
Negative sleeves - bhpho.to/47gAXyw
Negative binder - bhpho.to/3v93RmD
Canon 5D MK IV - bhpho.to/3vaVzLa
Canon EF 100mm Macro - bhpho.to/3NDO05X
The Essential Film Holder - bit.ly/47nuFOg
L116T LED light - amzn.to/3GMzKUE
Negative Supply Riser - bit.ly/48564xU
🎞 Negative Lab Pro for converting scans - Get a free trial at bit.ly/41WQYab
►SOCIAL
💬 Join the Pushing Film Discord Server - / discord
📷 Pushing Film on Instagram, Threads, X - @pushingfilm
📷 Hashem on Instagram - / hashemmcadam
📺 My Personal TH-cam channel - @hashemmcadam
🧾 My Blog - www.exaframe.com/blog
►WEBSITE
🏠 www.exaframe.com
I use Pixpa for my website - an affordable and effective website solution.
If you would like to try Pixpa you can get a free trial at bit.ly/3UTof2e and get 50% OFF on annual plans when you subscribe with the promo code PXREF50
►CHAPTERS
00:00 - Intro
00:51 - Video structure & target audience
02:56 - Scoring - Viewfinders
03:41 - Ergonomics
05:15 - Noise
06:13 - Weight
06:43 - Speed
07:29 - Metering
09:56 - Modularity
11:18 - Lenses
12:18 - Flash sync
12:28 - Total scores (preliminary)
12:52 - Prices & film economy
14:15 - Total scores (considering Prices)
14:39 - Which one should you get?
16:33 - Which one would I buy?
17:29 - The Bronica ETRS
19:56 - Bronica Price & Score compared
20:18 - Bronica vs Pentax vs Mamiya
21:20 - Closing thoughts & Reshoot Australia
22:09 - Mamiya photo samples
22:46 - Conclusion & outro
#Pentax645N #Mamiya645Pro #BronicaETRS
The Bronica is less different than you think. Using the AE-III prism it has aperture priority AE as well as spot or center weighted metering. It has an electronically controlled leaf shutter and there's the option of manual or powered film advance. The bronica also has the advantage of interchangeable film backs which the pentax doesn't have.
Love my Mamiya 645 Super. I have the same setup with grip and prism finder, but I also have the mamiya wriststrap that makes it very comfortable and balances well with the 110mm f2.8. Which by the way is a Wonderful Portrait Lens. Great comparison review. Fun fact: Christopher Nolan used Mamiya Sekor lenses to film scenes from The Dark Knight. He is one of my favorite Directors that still shoots all his movies on Film.
I had the Mamiya 645 ProTL with the 80 1.9, but ergonomics did not feel good in my hands. After a few years with a Pentax 67 I found a Pentax 645 with 75 2.8 and I fell in love, despite the fact that the Pentax looks a bit "silly" to me. But ergonomics, ease of use, and sharpness of the 75mm really made me fall in love with it.
Amazing production quality! Proud of you ❤️
I was able to piecemeal a simple Mamiya 645 Pro kit together a few months ago for around $500USD - manual crank, ae prism, no grip however hence the lower cost. The modularity and the ability for multiple backs was the deciding factor for me. Both are great cameras, really all three are - it really does come down to preference, use case and budget.
The Mamiya 645 AF would be a more comparable model as that is autofocus and similar in features
But do we need autofocus etc on a 645 camera?
But the mamiya 645 isn't in the same price bracket and it is known to have issues
Excellent video! So much helpful information and your delivery is always so smooth and natural, love listening to you. I have a Mamiya 645J with the 80mm 2.8 and the grip. I like it as a setup and as a lighter alternative to my Pentax 6x7 or Mamiya RB67. My stepdad has the Broni a ETRsi and I must say that it is a beautiful little camera. One of the best groundglasses I have ever looked through, crystal clear and bright as daylight. Thanks again for the video:)
Great presentation of your findings, enjoyed how you compared the features between them. I guess building on the 645 comparisons would be the likes of having 645 backs on a Rollei SL66, RB, Hassy etc, but that would be a whole other can of worms. On another note, there is also the Fuji GS645 rangefinder for users who want a super compact kit. Thanks for sharing Hashem 👍
Thanks. Very well described. One point: i have a fast motor drive for my Bronica , as well as a manual one. And the small crank. So I can go from heavy and luxurious to less weight to lightest and simple.
Thank you for the informative video Hashem. During the last 6 years I have bought - and then sold - quite a few MF cameras (Bronica RF645, Bronica ETRSi, Rollie 6006, Fuji GW690ii etc) shot about 100 rolls in different situtations. I bought a Pentax645n in mint condition about 6 months ago. It came with the two popular zooms, the 45-85 FA and the 80-160 FA. I'm now buying the standard 75mm FA for making my camera lighter for walk-around shooting and of course due to the lens's better IQ. The camera and two zooms cost me about 700€ which I thought it was a steal considering the excellent state of all components. I decided on the Pentax645n because I was sold to its sophistication, simplicity, automations and ergonomics and of course its AF capabilities. Having tried the modularity of the ETRSi, I can easily say that it gave me more pains than joy, especially when I was using it for long exposure night photos on a tripod. I also found focusing with the rangefinders a real pain sometimes, especially for quick mid-distance shooting of moving subjects. All in all, I'm very happy with the Pentax and it seems that this is the camera to keep for the years to come. So here are two questions for you. I find it odd that the images of the Pentax when shot in vertical orientation (also making use of the 2nd tripod mount of the camera) appear on the negative upside down. Initially I though I might have loading the film in a wrong way, but it cannot be that since the film edge markings and the shooting settings imprints appear the right way. Have you noticed that? (By the way, you could have given the Pentax some more scoring if you had included that feature which is very useful to some). And finally I would like to ask you how do you find the accuracy of its TTL function and whether you have any tips for using on-camare flash with the Pentax. I recently purchased the Pentax AF 500FTZ. Intending to use it mostly as fill-in in low-light "daytime" conditions (portraits and street scenes in overcast, shadowy conditions). Once again thanks!
Very informative comparison!
Hi Hashem, great review. I'm a fellow Melbournite who works for a US high-speed camera manufacturer, but shoot 4x5, digital and now 120 having finally bought a Pentax 645 kit a week ago (non-n version).
A few extra points worth mentioning: I paid $1380 for a P645 + x4 inserts + 80-160 + 300 + 1.4XTC. I went back and forwards between the Mamiya & Pentax even though I'd used a Pentax years ago, and an RB67 for a year too. There are far more Pentax lenses available, especially at longer focal lengths. Not only this, but the Pentax lenses are forwards compatible for all 645 models, so when I update to an n or even a D or Z later (or both), I can use my full range of glass.
Also, Pentax glass, from what I can determine is more consistent across the range...there's only one lens which I've heard is not great, but with Mamiya it seems a little hit & miss (I may be biased, but I felt the same with the RB glass).
Finally, Pentax 67 glass is fully compatible with both the 645 and 35mm bodies (via adapters)...if you don't care about AF, that's a huge benefit, as it means a lot of glass will be available for a long time. With the Mamiya, not all glass is compatible between the pro TL and AF/AFD models...
and finally finally :-) ..the flange to film plane on the Pentax is quite a bit less than the Mamiya. This means I can adapt everything down to a 70mm large format lens. What this means in reality is that with a bellows, I can get ample tilt or shift using a 90mm large format lens, and some using 67 lenses - pretty fantastic possibilities if you're into architecture or landscapes. And yes, there are leaf shutter lenses for Mamiya & Pentax and shift lenses, although I don't believe either have tilt (need the RB67 with bellows and the tilt shift adapter for that).
There is a motorised grip available for the bronica too. And with the newer AE III prism finder you can have similar functionality to the pentax
I'm a Mamiya fanboy after picking up 645 super, 645 pro-TL, and 645AFd all before most people jumped on the bandwagon I love each one of them excellent images too. The odd thing is the prices for the back for the 645AFd the prices are crazy... I like the ability to switch out the backs. And in some cases, if you have an issue with the camera you can get it repaired or do it yourself if you have the tools... I"m so glad that film has come back from the brink. Thank you for taking the time to show what you know and like.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! It's great that you're using what suits you best, I can definitely see the Mamiya being exactly that for many people and situations 🙂
This was very useful to me. Thanks man. Great video
Thank you! Glad it helped
All all are great choices and it comes down to which one falls into your lap at the best deal. 6 years ago I got a mint 645 proTL set, with 3 lenses, 5 backs, and 2 winders for $450 usd. A lucky find considering today’s prices. I would like to get a manual crank and WLF.
An advantage of being modular is one can easily replace any single component that fails, without having to source a complete new unit.
I would love to get a Pentax 645n for the AF capability.
Great review, wish you had posted and I had seen this earlier although I think my decision would have been the same. About a year ago I purchased the original Pentax 645 with lens for about $500. Had a bit of an issue focusing that camera due to my poor eyesight and dim viewfinder... and have subsequently gotten the 645n and found it to be just what I really needed all along... even with manual focus lenses it has the green dot focus confirmation I find extremely helpful... the only reason I regret not buying the Mamiya was having changeable backs, but I'm keeping the original Pentax and just ordered the flip up view finder magnifier (thanks to your comment on that accessory)
to keep on that body to shoot different (BW film) stocks giving me the best of both worlds.
I have a bronica ETR-C (same as etrs but without being able to switch backs) great cam! Very happy with it
I've always loved my little Bronica. So much even that I have 2 of them with several lenses.
The whole ETR Series is an electronically controlled camera, not mechanical. You do need a 4SR44. There is a better AE-III Finder an the oportunity to shoot panorama like the X-Pan with a 135W-magazin but for the fraction of the price of a X-Pan.
That's right, I shouldn't have used the term mechanical, a misnomer that I noticed only later. Yes, an attractive option for someone into panoramas!
I bought the Pentax mid last year and have been so happy with it I'm so happy I went for it as it so simple to use
Great! It really is :-)
Wow, I didn't realize the Mamiya had gone up so much. I have the Mamiya "Super" model, I paid about $400 CAD w/ shipping 5ish years ago. This was a really good comparison video.
Great deals were still around back then 😁 Thanks Jen!
i had the rb67 in mind for like 1 year, but this comparison made me consider the 645 as well. very good and informative video, thank you for posting this
Glad it was helpful!
I own both, a M645 1000s and a RB67. For a beginner a M645 is easier, the RB67 has much more things you have to think about. It also puts quite some extra weight on the scale.
Maybe you could also consider the Mamiya C series of TLR cameras, they are a nice in-between in weight, ease of use and 12 frames a roll is a great number. I think my C330 is the camera that got most use the last half year.
Fuckin ausome video man. I get genuinely excited when I see your vids pop up. Informative, great production, great ideas & presentation.
Hey thanks! 😄
Even if I don't plan on changing out my Mamiya 645, it's nice to see it compared to another camera! Thanks for another great video Hashem!!!
Much appreciated Dave!
Very interesting results here, I would go with the Bronica too!
Thanks for this - great video for one looking at a 645 to start. I had a Hasselblad 501CM many years ago and looking at MF again! 😊
I think I'm going to take the plunge for a Pentax 645N. Emailing store - 🤞
Great job. There is a lot of reason in this review. After roaming a while in 645 groups, wedding shooters seem to highlight a lot more issues with Mamiya and Contax to get repaired. Also something worth mentioning for the Pentax 645 N and NII is the focus confirmation of all manual lenses you wish to adapt. Pentax even had an adapter to use the Pentax 67 lenses. If someone already has a Pentax 67, the Pentax 645 is the obvious choice.
I have heard this too, and noticed it in the form of electrical/contact issues while assisting a photographer who ran dual Mamiyas, as well as another running dual Contax (in which case both suddenly failed at once before a wedding, and had to be sent off, and last minute loaners/rentals organised! That's correct, I love that feature and realised after posting that I forgot to use a cut in editing where I mentioned it. Correct about the adapter also, you can see in some of the B-roll that I have the Takumar 105 and SMC 55mm lenses adapted on the Pentax 645N... using the 105 particularly was motivation for me to choose the Pentax when getting mine years ago.
Absolutely love my Mamiya 645Pro!
I’ve been building a Mamyia pro TL kit for about a year. It came with the AE prism. KEH had a good deal on a 55-110mm lens as my first and only lens. I had no idea how huge that lens was. The shutter button location was very unwieldy to use and was intimidating. I just recently added a motor grip and it’s much better to hand hold.
My next additions will be an 80mm lens and the flip up viewfinder for a more compact configuration
The reason I went with Mamyia is that I knew it was a good brand, I like the modular approach, wanted a 120 format but didn’t want a TLR. At the time I didn’t know about the Mamyia 6/7 or Universal
Another banger video!
You are tempting me to invest in one of these before the price becomes completely unbearable, despite already having far too many system cameras, lol. I already have the Bronica SQ and just recently got the GS-1 so I am half tempted to just round out my collection with one of the ETRs but also cost, space blah blah (I have a bad habit of buying a camera and then trying to collect as many lenses/accessories I can for it.....). Maybe I should just keep an eye out for good prices on these 3. I think the Pentax would just be the most fun one to shoot.
I haven't used either, but I think one slight benefit of the Pentax is that if you are invested in the Pentax 6x7 system, you can adapt the lenses without trouble. I assume you can't do the same with the RB/RZ lenses on the Mamiya. Though I suppose if you have an RB/RZ or Bronica SQ/GS-1 you can buy a 6x45 back for those (but ofc the weight kinda kills the point of 645)
Outside of system cameras, I think ancient 6x45 folders are relatively more affordable for anyone just looking to try 6x45. There is also stuff the Fuji autofocus rangefinder for anyone looking for compact autofocus.
On another note, I am very impressed that you shoot weddings with film. I'd be terrified of the film not turning out. Big kudos to you on that! I hope clients are understanding of rolls not working out on occasion and stuff like that.
Great video bud! I didn't enjoy my time with the 645N but I certainly see the appeal.
Thanks man! Yeah I think your style of photography, as an example, would benefit more from one of the modular options :-)
Hi Hashim ! Did you read my mind ? Exactly what I was missing... I am a Clinical Pharm who loves analog photography. Super-Big -Thanks for this fantastic video. As usual ! Mamiya is the missing camera here. I do have ETRSi and Pentax 645.
Viva Albania !
Thank you! Glad you liked the video
Just a small thing about the panoramic backs: The Mamiya crops a standard 35mm frame, whereas the Bronica exposes more of the negative (around like 8 sprocket holes total).
Does that depend on the insert like the 135 back on the SQ system?
@@counterfit5 as far as I know, the only panoramic option for the Bronica cameras are true panoramic 35mm.
Great video and I applaud your including the Bronica. That was a brave decision.
Thanks!
Have an ETRS - And it is just awesome! Highly underrated.
Nice review. I went with the Mamiya for the 80/1.9 lens. It’s the only lens I use with the camera. I wish the grip had a second shutter release button for vertical format shots; it would improve the handling imo.
That lens is a great reason!
I use a Bronica SQ which has a flash sync speed of 1/500 as does the ETRsi. I also have a Pentax 645n. Each has its advantages.
The Bronica ETR was always the much preferred wedding/event camera of its day.
I would like to have seen how theses cameras compared to the king of 645 - the Contax.
Although i've used them i've never owned the Contax (unfortunately)...
Great comparison, Hashem! Some really great info here! I've only owned three medium format cameras. The Hasselblad and Fuji that I have now, and I previously had a Mamiya 645 1000s. No changeable back, but changeable viewfinders. I really loved it! I bought it with an 80mm lens and a huge bunch of accessories in Japan in 2015 for $300 haha. I do love the 645 format, and I'd probably get the Pentax these days!!
The Pentax has some really affordable lenses, even now after the price increases over the last 5 years or so! I've often thought about getting a 120mm Pentax 645 macro to adapt onto my digital camera!!
Thank you! Yeah that 120mm lens still goes for a good price 😁
I use and love my Bronica ETRSi, waist view & metered prism, all three winders (hand and motor adv) and lenses from 50 to 250mm. It’s a banger, can be set up like a hassie for light carry or fully metered with motor advance for in the studio and everything in between. Love it, only thing I still need is a pano back but they are hella expensive. But regardless of your preferred camera I really love the 645 format negs. 15 shots per roll and a big enough neg to give mf look. Also enlargers to take 645 and 6x6 are easier to find than bigger formats.
You can convert the normal 135 back to panoramic quite easily if you want. They can be found much cheaper, if you're willing to make a lil compromise in convenience: you have to advance two frames after each shot so they don't overlap because the gearing is different and hence you only get 18 panoramas from a 36 exp roll.
Can Pentax lenses used on their 35mm cameras be used on the Pentax 645? Are they interchangeable? Great comparison video!
Absolutely love my Bronica SQB
I have the Pentax 645nii and the Mamiya 645 Pro TL - so both slightly newer versions of what you have on this video. I struggle to make up my mind which one I like more. The Mamiya wins with the 80mm F1.9 lens which is stunning (IMHO one of the best 2 645 lenses ever made along with the Zeiss 80mm on the Contax) and the removable film back meaning I can carry 3 different films and swap at any time with my three backs. The Pentax wins with autofocus and a more integrated feel to the whole thing. Strangely I found my Mamiya is louder than my Pentax. Your view of the Mamiya meter is a shame - the new one I have is simply fabulous and is every bit as good as the Pentax one. The Mamiya body doesn't have a meter in it - the prism is the meter. The newer metered prism will fit the model you have. There is a kind of halfway house meter with a diopter for the Mamiya as well. At the end of the day though, I have taken over 5,000 photos with the Mamiya and only 1,000 with the Pentax, so I guess that gives my opinion in numbers.
Thinking of trading my Pentax 645N for a Mamiya 645. My photos tend to have a clinical almost digital look, and so far by looking at photos with the Mamiya I am intrigued
This is more of a question than comment. And I have not watched the full program you have presented.
The question: does anyone make adapters to use Mamiya or Contax 645 lenses on a Pentax 645 N or Z? Word (rumor) with Pentax development of new 35mm film cameras that they well do the same for medium (film) format as well? Keep up the good work!
I'll always love my Mamiya's lol Although I'll say the Bronica and Pentax are great options as well :)
just a couple things, remember that the Mamiya can always be used with a manual advance wind making it smaller and more portable than the Pentax, there should also be a switch under the grip of the Mamiya which lets you engage the multi exposure. Also, the Bronica is still a fully electronic camera like the Pentax and Mamiya and would be exactly the same if you used it with the autowinder in a similar way to the Mamiya. Personally, I started with the Bronica and have latterly gone over to the Mamiya, the Pentax never even tempted me due to the fixed autowinder (loud) and the none changeable backs seemed like a real kick in the teeth
Yes, I distinctly mentioned this in the video. As for the switch, that's on a different version of the grip/power winder.. again, not a big deal though as I mentioned, and if someone cared to actually use it they can make sure they get the other grip. Due to the older age and much lower price I still feel like the Bronica (in the common configurations that you find it available) sits in a different segment. It's not as electronic as the other two (no chipsets, electronic dials/switches, features on the body). Sounds like you you're using what suits you already, which is great! (and in which case this video probably isn't much use to you) Yes the Pentax is loud. Some people like myself don't ever need interchangeable backs- I've been using mine for 6 years and never once wished I could have that feature. That's the point of the video though, to help people who don't already have a 645 camera figure out the core differences between the particular variants that I had access to, and decided to make my video on.
Great video Hashem. The 35mm panorama mode which you can buy for the Mamiya is not worth it to me in my opinion because it slices a strip out of the frame so you’re not using the full frame. But otherwise I really love my Mamiya 645. I bought the Pro TL version specifically so I could shoot it with the venerable Metz CL - 4/5 flashes. Of course in TTL mode. I thought it was worth mentioning this is an option and that there is a Pro TL version. Wish I would have bought mine back when they practically threw film cameras away. Had to get a mortgage in order to fund mine 😅. Well done Hashem!
Thanks man! I have heard! I think the vast majority of users wont ever buy a 35mm panoramic back anyway. For sure, Pro TL is another great option and I only mentioned it in passing, but it does make a good option for someone who will use flash, if they're happy to pay a little extra.
I was surprised to see the selling price of the Bronica, paid 350 Cdn $ including shipping 4 years ago, they double in price. Film photography is getting really expensive
I wish I had a Pentax 645N, because I own a 645D and have a bunch of FA 645 lenses. But I have the Mamiya 645 Pro TL, and it’s a better camera all around, except for autofocus, which it doesn’t have. But the rest is much better, I’d rather have different viewfinders, and a waist level finder, and being able to change the back, so I can shoot multiple emulsions at once. Also, the fastest medium format lens in the 80mm 1.9.
I am two years late, but I enjoyed this and the comparision coincides with my decision for a Pentax 645nii. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
I will just reiterate the fact that your copy of the mamiya 645 pro has the prism AE finder etc are from the previous version, the mamiya 645 super. They will work but the newer finder is much better. Illustrating the benefits of a modular system. The WL finder and hand crank make the Mamiya 645 pro and pro TL a small and light little unit. No light meter though. Great video as always!
Yeah someone mentioned! How is the new one better?
I know I’m commenting on an old post here, however I’m glad to have found your channel 😊. Just finished my first year at PSC in Melbourne and recently dove into the film rabbit hole and finding your vids and references very helpful. I purchased a RZ67 pro ii which came with both the grid, split image micro prism focus screen, and AE prism finder. I’d noticed that metering was off when using the split image micro prism screen compared to the grid screen so went researching and found a reference to it in the AE prism manual mentioning that metering was not accurate with the split / microprisim due to the clearer center. Maybe this could be the case you found with the Mamiya 645 ?
Hey, thanks man. Haha yeah that's a fun rabbit hole you've entered, great camera too! That could be true, it is the case with some cameras that changing the focusing screen affects the meter. On my Nikon I changed screens to a brighter one so have to apply exposure compensation. The Mamiya I used here was a short term loan though, so I'm not too sure.
@@pushingfilm , Cheers, yeah I’m loving the images from the camera, and slowing down to consider each exposure more carefully. I’m amazed at how sharp those Sekor lenses are! It’s definitely not a run & gun camera, and hope to find a nice 35mm for that once the bank account recovers haha.
I use 2 Canon dSLRs. I'm from the film era though and used to use F1s. I'm tempted to buy a 120 film camera, be it TLR or SLR but wonder if a 120 neg yields as much information as a 25mp full frame Canon EOS5dii with L lenses.
I have the Mamiya 645 Super, which is the model before the Pro, essentially the same but with less electronics. Somewhere between the Bronica and the Pro. I have eye and waist level finders, three backs and three lenses. I even picked up a spare body on eBay for £25 that was sold as spares or repair, put a new battery in it and it worked perfectly. So it’s a solid kit, but doesn’t get nearly as much use as it should partly because it’s a lot of weight to hump about. I could make a tidy profit if I sold it, but would rather keep it because it will get used at some point. My Bronica SQ B is beast but less likely to be used. Also, the 645 is the same frame ratio as my Olympus OM-D cameras, which is nice.
Nice! haha sounds like you might regret it if you sell it off? Agreed, I quite like the 4:3 ratio
The Mamiya with a hand crank is REALLY light. The meter read out on the Pentax looks so cool though, love the green 'matrix' feel. I have the Mamiya 645 Pro, as it came down to weight ultimately. It's much more ergonomic than the Super, which I've owned previously. The Pentax still has me curious though. Thanks for shooting this video
Yeah tiny too! Haha it is... it was especially highlighted to me using them side by side on a full wedding day how much difference the read-out and ergonomics make when shooting in higher pressure conditions. My guess is that most people might want the modular features though and would get better value out of the Mamiya.
For sure. This 645 kit I keep close by as an every day carry, zero pressure involved. I do shoot weddings, and I've started to have a film camera along, but can't imagine film being my main capture medium. It sounds stressful even with the last offerings of Nikon/Canon. Although more fun once you get used to the process, so lucky you!
I have the 645 Super and I am wondering how the 645 Pro is more ergonomic? They look very similar. Are you talking about the newer motor winder? Isn't that also compatible with the Super? I prefer using my Super with the manual advance crank, but I also have the motor winder.
@@ftlbaby it's less angular with smooth, rounded edges. That's all
Hasselblad H1 or H2 - great cameras and super sharp lenses.
How about the hasselblad with the a16 back?
I own the Pentax so I am bias lol. I believe I paid about $1000 Canadian for mine.
One other advantage the 645n has is that Pentax had an official lens adapter to mount 6x7 lenses onto it.
I have a 35mm Mamiya NC 1000 camera my first camera.
thanks for the video what I really need! I am preparing for wedding shoots with digital and film. For film, I was thinking to use my hasselblad 500cm but I feel like shutter sound for hasselblad is too loud.. What do you think about this...?
I think it would be good for the some shots during the ceremony if the couple is aware of the whole film camera aspect, and ideally paid extra for it.. Especially if you have an assistant or backs loaded. But definitely should be great for getting ready and portrait session stuff!
@@pushingfilm Thanks for the advice! I wanna do about 20% of them with film, but still not sure..
The algorithm pushed this at me. I suppose I've been watching a lot of medium format videos the lasts couple of weeks.
I picked up a Pentax 645Nii a few years ago and found some manual focus lenses for it. I shot a few rolls of film and then got busy with other things. It's a bit heavy for a walk-around camera, but it can work if you don't need a tripod and any of the big glass.
I have not tried any of the autofocus lenses. It might be worth buying the normal lens.
You mentioned leaf shutter glass in passing, but didn't pause there. The Pentax should flash sync with fastser shutter speeds and the leaf shutter lens(es). I think I read that in the manual. That would make having one or two of them in your kit valuable *if* you're a flash shooter. I expect it's the same for the Mamiya and the ETRS. But I don't know.
I bought the split image glass for my 645Nii and that makes a huge difference in handling with manual focus lenses. It was expensive, though.
You hinted at it, but the bottom line is really the buyer's use case. If one needs/wants to change film mid-roll, then the modular system wins. If that's a low-priority for the buyer, then the Pentax looks like the better system.
Good video, though. You got a like from me. ;)
Thanks, glad you liked the video!
The pro tl grip has a switch on the bottom for the multi option
Handy!
Bronica all the way for me, you can change everything, my goto medium format. As P.Schastok says below it does need a battery to drive the electronic shutter in the lens, no battery and the lenses default to a manual speed of 1/500th of a second. Also if a shutter goes bad you just need to change the lens. The battery also powers the metered prism, not a major problem as the prism has an on/off switch if you remember to use it. Big win is the flash sync of 1/500th due to the leaf shutters, great if you want to use fill in flash. P.Schastok is also dead on about the 135W back (24x54mm), they are expensive and the price is increasing but cheaper than an X-Pan (24x65mm). There is also a 135N back but that is only 24x36mm.
I think its the best value out of the three! Correct that is electronic in that sense, my mistake in describing it during the video.
You can convert the 135N back to panoramic quite easily, with minor compromises.
To my knowledge there is no totally mechanical 645 SLR or rangefinder with reasonably modern lens designs available so I always skipped the format.
When pros went digital and film cameras were really cheap in the late 00s, early 10s, I bought many cameras to try, learn and either keep or sell. Among others I owned a Mamiya 7 II with the full lens park and a Hasselblad XPAN, also with all lenses. Back then these things were really affordable.
Then, one day, my Nikon F3 died. As in really dead, sorry, the electronics are destroyed, we cannot do anything. And while the F3 was so cheap that it did not bother me too much, the idea of losing the Mamiya and XPAN which at that time had increased in value to several thousand EUR, was really a thing to me.
I decided that I will never again buy nor will I keep any film camera worth more than 500 EUR, unless it is 100% mechanical. Mamiya and XPAN left the house. I miss them, they were great. But now I use a Hasselblad 501CM and Rolleiflex 3.5E TLR and I am quite happy with both AND do not lose any sleep over the idea that I went to bed yesterday with a working 4000 EUR camera and woke up today with a paperweight.
So sadly, although it would be more economic considering that I often crop my square format photos, leaving me with a 645 foto, I will probably never own a 645 camera.
Great video. Would love to hear from anyone who has tried the AF Mamiya with the Pentax N. I've got a Mamiya 645 Pro TL (the next model up from the one you have) which I love but my eyes are not as good as they used to be so an AF camera might be in my future.
How do you find the AF vs Manual focus on the Pentax? Do you find AF gives you accurate focusing with portraits at wide apertures?
Hey Darren! I personally haven't used the AF, as I didn't want to pay extra for the AF lens when buying mine at then time, and actually bought the camera initially to use with the awesome 105mm Takumar lens (adapted).
But, one really cool thing about the Pentax that I really like (which I forgot to mention and only realised in editing 😅) is that is has a focus confirmation beep and dot in the viewfinder when using manual focus. It works pretty well, and is handy if you doubt your focus in tricky situations. I'm sure AF lenses would be nice though!
@@pushingfilm Mamiya 645AF also has the focus confirmation for manual lenses.
@@NC-oc3ld That's right, but they cost like $1000 more than the 645N
@@pushingfilm I just checked eBay. Pentax 645N complete with 75mm lens is about $1300. Mamiya 645AF complete with lens is also around there. One just sold for $1200
how about a 6x6 comparison?
Pentax 645N wins hands down as a platform to adapt exotic lenses and have focus confirmation. Mamiya 645 wins as a platform to adapt exotic lenses if you want to start shooting digital backs at some point in the future.
For me it is the Fuji 645Zi :)
Great comparison. Where do you recommend to take a Pentax 645 to get serviced? Mine seems to have a sticky shutter. Cheers
Thanks man! Running out of options these days... I've yet to ever need mine serviced, but I think there's only Vintech left (in Melbourne) with Camera Clinic closing down.
@@pushingfilm thanks Hashem. I've reached out to Nick from Camera Clinic to see if he can help. We really need a list of available repairers around the country.
2 cameras I will use til I die are my 645 AFD II and my RZ67. Still 2 of the best cameras ever made i you ask me
Did you consider which supports digital backs and how that compares at all?
Not really, I find the price/access/reliability to be deterrents, and I don't shoot the kind of work or frequency to justify it
I have received 2 copies of the 646N and the shutter speed dial on one fell of in 3 days the other in 10 minutes. Have you had this problem? Did you glue it back on?
I've never had that issue in the years that I've had mine! The entire dial comes off?
The Bronica actually is an electronic camera. It requires one 4LR44 battery. Without one it only fires at 1/500th of a second. It has manual advance but is not fully mechanical. The Bronica is still the better value I agree.
Kind of an unfair comparison. Should have compared the Pentax against Mamiya 645AF because they are both autofocus
Love my Mamiya 645AF! Very slick design. 645AFD allows you to use both film and digital backs. PhaseOne DF will not take film backs. Learned that the hard way.
All have good lenses but Mamiya are the only ones that can pair with Zeiss and that’s where they were punching Hasselblad nasty.
At this time in the US the Pentax is 50-60% higher than the Mamiya. The Bronica is 40-60% less expensive
Along the years, in 645 format, I've had Pentax 645, 645n, Mamiya 645 Pro TL, Bronica ETRc, and ETRSi. The best lenses come definitely from Pentax, then Mamiya, then Bronica.
I only have the Bronica ETRSi now (with 75mm & 50mm, WLF and AE III finder). Why is that? I try to keep away from cameras that will crap out because their reliance on electronic components. Electrolytic capacitors on ANY device, gadget or gear will eventually die and/or leak out (and die). In fact in music, radio and hi-fi gear, that is the first thing that you need to address, the capacitors in the power supply, then everything else.
Being electronic in design the Pentax 645 died on me, the 645n feels great but it is to bulky for the image size, the Mamiya feels solid and has a great image too, but it is heavy and also a ticking time bomb with all those electronics. The Bronicas are fully mechanical, except for the shutter, they are fully modular, they are light and parts are cheap and plentiful, and the standard lenses give you 90% of the image quality of what Mamiya and Pentax offer, that said, the photographer makes the photo, not the lens.
I also kept (and shoot with) the Pentax 6x7, Rolleiflex 2.8E, and in 35mm with the Nikon FM2n, FE2, F3, Olympus XA, XA2 & Stylus Epic.
I'm not just talking from what I read, this is from what I've used and shot along the years. You can see my images at my -name and last name + dot com-
Thank you for doing these kind of reviews!
Thanks for sharing! Bronica definitely seems more repairable. 🙂
Mamiya 645 lenses have really different quality levels and one has to know it before buying one.
My weakest lens was the older all metal Sekor C 80mm 2.8, the newer plastic lens C 80mm 2.8 N is much better at 2.8 and 4 apertures (they only replaced the glass brand of one element) but it remains softer fully open compared to the Hasselblad Zeiss 80mm Planar, the Sekor C 80mm Macro is best in class, even better that any Hasselblad Zeiss lens.
The Sekor C 150mm f:4 is as good as the Zeiss Sonnar 150mm f:4, no visible difference on tripod mirror prerelease with Agfapan 25 film and huge 2 feet enlargements
Note that the Bronica ETRSi is not 'fully' manual. If you remove the battery it will only fire at 1/500 shutter speed no matter what you set it at.
Bronica has an electric handgrip as well..
❤️ ❤️ ❤️
Hashem I loved the video, although there were a few points that didn't line up for me. The first is the modular aspect of the cameras, the Pentax 645N is not a modular system, so that point for me is rather moot, after all if one compares apples to apples then the picture is clearer, here you've compared a banana, an eggplant, and a cucumber - the only similarity is their length or that they are all 645 format. All 3 cameras are in fact electronic, neither the Mamiya 645 Pro or the Bronica ETRS can use AF Lenses, the only Mamiya camera able to use AF, is the Mamiya 645AF. Also a small detail is in the grip and AE prism finder used on the Mamiya in your video is for the Mamiya 645 Super, yes they do fit on the Mamiya 645 Pro, but are intended for the 645 Super, the correct AE view finder and correct grip for the Mamiya 645 Pro would have eliminated the point you made regarding accessing the Multi-exposure button, since it is equipped with a button on the bottom of the grip to address that issue, as the improvement made with the correct AE view finder would have addressed the issues you commented on about which metering option the camera would have picked. All in all it is a great video, thanks.
Modularity is moot? Uhhh... He's comparing three 645 cameras, as the title clearly states. Modularity is a category within that comparison, as it should be.
@@justinkingery2489 It's just an opinion, I just think it is moot, since the Pentax 645n is not modular, then using the aspect of being modular is not viable since one of the cameras is not modular, its a point that now has no real bearing unless you are discussing the 2 cameras that are modular.
@@clarhettcoalfield3616 A banana, a cucumber and an eggplant? Hummm.... comparing length of fruit and vegies to 645 film size, interesting.
Hey, thanks man! You're right about the Bronica being electronic, I should have stuck to the term "older" or "manual advance" (the more common setup for them) But my video isn't about comparing apples to apples... under that analogy, it's for someone unfamiliar with fruit/vegetables/nightshades to figure out if they might prefer said cucumber or eggplant... or the cheaper and tastier banana. Beginners getting into medium format aren't familiar with modularity much, which camera has it and why they might want it; which is why I spend a lot of time explaining it and the benefits. I often get asked which one is better to get, especially by other portrait or wedding photographers who toss-up between Pentax, Mamiya, and Contax 645 (way too pricey in 2022 IMO) with most three having been competing options in their time, and generally available in the same configuration. Small detail on the grip noted- even though that was the most minor non-issue I saw with that camera. In terms of the meter, my assessment was more based on the effectiveness of the matrix mode and ease of use due to the meter displays and functionality.
The only logical conclusion, Bronica is best.
A 67 adapter will let you seamlessly use 6x7 lenses on your Pentax 645
Yes
and bonica rf645?
What about it?
@@pushingfilmit’s a banger
@@thierryleroy4050 Yeah they're unique! I've had friends who owned one, felt nice to try. They're pretty rare and expensive though, with a known weakness in the advance lever making it prone to breakage.
I was surprised that you didn't give the Pentax a higher score for lenses. AF zoom lens options are completely superior to Mamiya. Also I would like to mention that I tested the mirror lock-up on my 645NII at 300mm on a tripod, and it turns out that mirror lockup is actually not needed at any shutter speed. The camera is really that refined, and it explains why Pentax didn't include it on the 645N. The lack of interchangeable backs is a major problem for me, but the AF zoom lenses makes up for it in spades.
Mamiya has faster lenses like the 80mm f1.9.
From a flash sync perspective both systems offered leaf shutter lenses for higher speed flash sync
that's right!
Wow a long time Pentax user likes it better over the I just used it Mamiya.
The Contax 645 is obviously the answer.
For its current price, I don't think so 😂
@@pushingfilm Its also a time bomb.
@@pushingfilm Also in regards to the Mamiya 645 multi exposure lever being under the grip. I suggest you look closer at the Power winder. They thought of that and there is a second way to actuate it. But it appears you have a different version of the power winder than I have.
Secondly, the Auto meter mode in the 645 simulates a center weighted average. Which is visualized by both SP and AV illuminating at the same time as opposed to one or the other. I do have the slightly newer version of the AE Prism though but as far as i know its functionality is the same.
Lastly, the Mamiya 645 Super, Pro, and Pro TL will not Autofocus. The later 645AF has that functionality.
It doesn't have it on my version of the grip, but honestly its a non-issue to me or most people, most likely. Plus this correction has been made multiple times already in the comments. Secondly, The meter in mine didn't do that, and either way the metering in the Pentax is still better for all the reasons stated. Lastly- yep, a few people have mentioned this. Either way, this is a much more common setup than the AF version and is similar in price to the Pentax 645N. The point of the video is to help people new to all this figure out which one might suit them better, and hopefully it still does that despite these small oversights in details that I mentioned in passing. I'll endeavour to do better research next time.
@@pushingfilm Oh for sure. Wasn't upset or anything. Just honestly word vomiting and being a bit of a pedant. 🙃
I didn't know the Pentax was AF capable. I also do agree the ergonomics are better on the Pentax.
I shot professionally with an etrs and etrsi for 10 years from 1996 on. It is a very lightweight and usable system. You didn't mention the systems motordrive unit that I used for most shoots. I do have the winder grip but it was mainly there for if a lighter setup was required or quieter operation. The winder has 6 AA size batteries from memory. I'd say the AE prism is the least robust part of the system, I think it is fairly mildly centre weighted. I used the zenza 40mm 50mm 75mm 100mm macro 150mm and 2x converter. The shutters are electronic, so carry a spare camera battery. A fairly hard to find lithium size. The motordrive does not supply power to the shutter or meter prism in the event of battery failure. If the battery goes I think the shutter will fire at a default 1/125th. The ETRSi supports dedicated TTL flash control which I used with a Metz 60 CT-4. I always used the system bellows hood unit when not using Cokin P. The polaroid back (if I remember) takes the 88 pack sizes and larger 668 pack sizes. I came from a Haselblad usage background so the reasuring klunk was good. There was a 35mm back option but I used an FM2n for that or my F90x (N90x in US). Hope this info helps.
one subtle, but important advantage on the Mamiya side is that this is the 'Grand-dad' of the Phase One, and Leaf cameras, so as such is capable of mounting a Digital back to, making it suitable for both digital and Film jobs, just switch backs!!
The Manual Focus Mamiyas can not use a digital back. The 645AF however can.
You think 500 for a Pentax is worth it. How much battery it needs. How many rolls you get ? I would use rechargeable . I loved the Mamiya. It's more expensive here.
Thought the bronica had some mechanical issues . seems like a headache
one other point about the two, Mamiya/Bronica are LEAF shutters, the pentax is a focal plane (were some leaf shuttered lenses available- for the 67/67i, not sure if this also applied to the 645N); so these are better at flash photography (can sync at the 1/400 and 1/500 shutter speeds), the Pentax I think is only 1/60 or 1/125th .
one correction also, the Bronica is electronic, but for shutterspeed ONLY, the rest is mechanical; the other two are fully electronic, ie, they have a motherboard inside which controls metering/shutter/apature/drive modes, but the mamiya and the bronica i can recall has a 1/60 or 1/100 back-up mechanical shutter speed if the battery dies.
1/500s for the Bronica without battery*
Other than that, very well said! :)
So, question - what is better, a Mamiya or a Pentax? Answer, a Bronica.
EDIT: Turns out I just didn't listen properly....
What I do not understand in this comparison, is that you do not mention at all that the Pentax 645N has autofocus, and the Mamiya 645 Pro does not have that. It's such a big difference and totally changes the entire equation.
I did mention it, you must have missed it
@@pushingfilm my bad then I must indeed have missed it! 😁
Hello, a guess you did not fully understand how the Mamiya meetering system works !
The Auto A-S compares in real time average and spot meeterings and works with 3 subject cases
Case 1 low A vs S difference, the system chooses average only and lights the A led in the viewfinder
Case 2 medium A vs S difference, the system calculates a mean value between A and S meeterings and lights both A and S led's
Case 3 high A vs S difference, the system chooses spot only and light the S led
How to use it ?
Always center the spot cercle on the most important image detail for the meetering
In M mode go to the right values and recompose
In A mode press the shutter button halfway (in AE lock position, red square) and recompose
The shutter speeds in the viewfinder show easily 1/4 stop exposure differences. when two different speeds light together.
The same brightness of the 2 speed means 1/2 stop between the speeds,
one beeing brighter than the other means 1/4 or 3/4 difference.
I made a lot of slide films in Auto A-S and they were perfectly exposed, as good as the Nikon matrix system or even better with very difficult subjects, because you have every time the control over what the cameras decision is, and you can change easily it's decision.
The only problem I had with this camera is to not press strait down the shutter button in AE-lock position. This lets to a massive overexposure. The way to go is, press the shutter button halfway, wait until the readings in the viewfinder are lit and only then press completely the shutter button.
M645 Pro isn't compatible with M645 AF lenses and M645 AF body isn't compatible with non AF lenses.
The M645 grip doesnt disable multi exposure body lever. The body lever can be operated with a lever placed on the grip
The M645 metering prism Auto AS mode can also use a mean value between Average and Spot depending on subject contrast, then both A and S symbols in the viewfinder light up. In manual mode it is possible to ajust meetering at 1/4 1/2 3/4 EV just by showing LED the brightness difference between the two speeds that light up one beside the other.
Without having used either of these: This review and scoring is absolutely biased. I mean come on: Shutter speed being at least noticeable more quiet on the mamiya results in a .5 difference, but "speed" - which wasn't even measured - gave the Pentax 1 whole point more. Which doesn't even make sense, especially since you might find critical focus faster with mamiyas split prism, rendering it practically faster. Etc etc
😂😂 democracy is failing terribly right now. In general 😣