What if the Fall of the Roman Empire was prevented by Majorian?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2023
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#Maiorianus - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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Can you do a Scenario where Khalid Ibn-Al Walid never converts to Islam.
The images and drawings in the video are gorgeous. How do you get them?
I keep asking him.
Part 2 to this pls!!!!!!
I'd love to see the sequel, the Sassanid invasions, Justinian, Belisarius, the fall of Britannia, the Arabs, and even the Vikings invading Roman France
“If only. Those must be the two saddest words in the world.”― Mercedes Lackey.
“There was once a dream that was Rome. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish.” -- Marcus Aurelius. Thanks !
Would love to see a series on this timeline. The 600’s and the Great Persian war in the east
More importantly, wars against the Arabs. Perhaps more successful than in our timeline.
Agree!
Maybe arabs conquest in levant. In 636AD/CE. Maybe help of the western Roman
Yes i agree to, i want a whole series of the western roman empire living in this alternate universe untill its fall
Majorian : *trying to save the empire
Ricimer : "I'm gonna end this man whole career"
I’m not even European and that shit pisses me off
Same happened with Stilicho and Aetius
Made me shed a little tear of joy (and grief as well, because it was just a dream).
We cannot change the past, but we can affect the future. It might not be much, but as long as it is something then we have done all we can. We can't all be heroes, but doing our duty to our allies and our country is one of the highest of the Roman Virtues!
If this timeline were real, you wouldn't be alive to shed a tear 😅
@@schoolofgrowthhacking speak for yourself
@@schoolofgrowthhackingeven if so, I would gladly not be for the Imperium to live on
The Dream of Rome will never die.
I really want a part two imagining how the empire and his children would go on
I agree
You should do a video on Eastern generals and Emperors such as Leo III, John Kourkouas, Nikephoras Phokas, John I Tzimiskes, Basil II, Maurice, Heraclius etc.
Byzantine emperors are mostly very mediocre. Basil II is the only one worth a video.
@@doublem1975x John I Tzimiskes was amazing and died too early, it fits the theme of his channel.
What's a "Byzantine"?@@doublem1975x
The 2 greatest ones are the ones of Illyrian descent such as Juatinian the Grest and his predecessor Anastasius from Durres.
Basil II comes after them
That's belong to greek history tho. Especially from Heraclius onwards.
Probably, if things had worked as they did in this timeline, there would not have been several national identities (Italian, Spanish, Tunisian, French....) but only one: ROMAN.
Even today, many European Latins continue to identify themselves as Romans and dream (secretly) of forming one great Latin nation. Perhaps we need a new Majorian to make it happen.
You know even in Romes day they still called Italy, Italy so Italian wouldn’t be none existent just they’d be calling themselves Roman first and foremost and the rest? Is an absolute win the Spanish where clowns and destroyed all kinds of historic structures in the Americas, The French ? a nation of clowns.
It will never happen.
@@GaiusJuliusCaesar. damn I thought you where dead all this time sir! What are your orders.
Only by unifying old and new philosophy will a new Roma be created
A Latin Confederation would be more realistic
Everything about this was so cathartic to watch 😌✨ I love explorations of alt-timelines that give historical figures the endings they deserved!
So many expectations and hopes beaten down and left to die. Late Roma is fascinating and painful to study.
To think the Empire could have survived and prospered into the middle age. We can only dream
Theres another thing: The Arab expansion.
A bit late to the party. But there was a major outbreak of plague in the mid 6th century that could absolutely derail the course of the Western Roman Empire. And there's also the growing cultural drift between West and East that could cause a major conflict to emerge between them at some point. And 3rdly, there's the next big wave of nomads, with the Avars coming and the Turks pushing them.
@@ldubt4494Easy peasy.
The alternativ history path for Majorian has been very beutifully been made, if I could at least now I would support this channel by donation, keep up the good work.
Beautiful video, it would be great if you'll continue this timeline
Maiorianus: Was I a good Imperator?
*Iesu Christi: No. You are of the Best.*
Please make a part 2 for this video I love it!!
I agree
I have waited for this video for a long time and I'm very happy to see it.
This alternate history format would be great for a scenario on a Britanno-roman successor state (enter King Arthur).
Majorian will always be a legend in my book
He deserves a Big time Hollywood movie.
@@timothylee2772I'll make that after my 5 season Diadochi HBO series comes out
Masterly put together video! Well done good sir.
A very plausible scenario, loved the video. Ave Majorianus. 👌
Awesome video can you make a what if video in which the Eastern Roman Empire survived.
You literally are my favourite ancient roman TH-camr rn. You are making me dream at night about alternative timelines of ancient rome surviving thank you so much!
This is a great video man! 🙂👍
Great video!
A continuation to this would be really cool!
Ave Majorian !
Hey Maiorianus, I'm very interested in both your work and Schwerpunkt's, have you guys ever thought about a coop?
I read it as coup at first and thought how apt for a channel obsessed with the late stages of the Roman Empire to engage in a coup.😂
Love this!
Needs to be a sequel to where Majorians son leads the Romans to finally conquer Germania once and for all. Also they are still missing a bit of mainland territory. Specifically the provinces of Noricum, Pannonia and Raetia.
Thanks,Very Much.
From beginning till the end of the events of this video, i feel satisfied❤
Thanks!
Mesmerizing, yet again. And the best part? I have significantly increased my knowledge of Roman history and still have a long way to go.
Just imagine that in this timeline, we end up seeing the Roman Empire having a worldwide Cold War with China, Great Britain, and an alternate version of the United States of America.
No, let's not.
Hmm no thanks
Rome wouldn’t have a cold war. And probably the US would actually have been a Roman Province had Rome not fell. As mostly of the americas. You would be speaking Latin or Greek, depending of the part of the empire upon which the colonists where drafted. In a Roman world Britain would not have been dominant
Fascinating idea :)
@@lorenzogumier7646 yup
Love your awesome work
And yeah the algorith is not being any help, though my friends have shared this video on the alternatehistory forum when we were also talking about Majorian
Was A Magnificent Vídeo.
I want to think that Majorian would have also restored Britannia. The Britons still had a decent military power and wanted Rome back, the arrival of Majorian's troops could have tipped balance against the invading Saxons.
The Britons had groaned that the Picts and Scots were attacking them, and had asked Aetius to take them over. Unfortunately he was fighting Attila at that time, so he was unable to help. By 454 he was dead. Rome had intervened in the 430s when St Germanus of Auxerre had rallied the Britons in the Hallelujah Victiry while negotiating with the British leader Agricola.
@@Joanna-il2ur By Majorian's time, the Picts and Scots had already been beaten back... And replaced as invaders by the Saxons. Though the Britons were still strong enough that they contributed troops to Anthemius' ill-fated campaign against the Visigoths.
@@lordMartiya when St Patrick wrote his Confessio to his metropolitan in Britain, he made no mention of any invasion there. Bishop Faustus of Riez was a Briton and probably grandson of Vortigern. He wrote many letters and took part in the delegation which surrendered the Auvergne to Euric, as condemned by Sidonius. He never in his literature (unlike Synesius on the invasion of Cyrene) mentions any invasion. There is nothing in the archaeology which illustrates an invasion.
@@Joanna-il2ur Nothing except the Saxons already fighting the Britons in Majorian's time.
@@lordMartiya And what evidence would you like to present to support that assertion? Gildas is unreliable and may relate to an earlier, or even a later, period. And as the Picts were in Pictland and the Irish were in the. north west, how useful would the Saxons have been in the south east?
This is my favourite kind of fan fiction.
Do a mini series!
Great video
This is awesome timeline
I feel like Majorian (if he lived long enough) would have abolish Magister Millitum since the system brings civil war and it was used by mostly barbarian leaders especially Ricimer
He was one of the few Western emperors after Theodosius that matter. Otherwise it was the Patricians that actually did anything. Some, like Stilicho and Aetius, were important. Ricimer was as Roman as anyone else, but he was a psychopath. As Ricimer was grandson of Wallia, via his mother, he was a Roman citizen from birth and not a barbarian. If Zeno was a Roman, so was Ricimer.
22:45 I think it would have been much smarter for Majorian, in this hypothetical Timeline, to keep the old tribal Kings intact. Subordinate, but intact. I think that, given the fact that the tribes that are now living in Gaul and Spain comprise a substantial percentage of the Populations of their respective regions, it would be wiser to share Power with these subordinate kings, return to a system somewhat similar to the system established under Augustas and Vespasian, where power was shared with local elites.
Let’s gooooo another video !!!
God Bless The Enclave
@@Kiddo5010 amén to that
Well, this is the dream of every late Western roman empire fan :D. I'm writing right now a thesis on Ricimer for my master degree in roman history (circa, coz in italy there are no specific "Roman" degree or whichever)....and I hate him on every page I write...every one...
This should be a movie
How much was the recovered territory under Romes control? I ask, because almost as soon as he died, they were lost again.
There was an episode of Star Trek where, in an alternate time-line, Kirk and Spock find themselves in the Roman Empire in the 23rd century. 😊
There was once a dream called Rome and it was absolutely beautiful
Man i love this
Can you please do a video on Marcellinus of dalmatia I want to know more about him.
It s so sad, you made us realize that the empire really did NOT need to fall there and then
If only this could be, funnily enough, I was thinking of what names Majorian would give his sons and I too came to the conclusion of Marcellus
This isn't the first version of this Timeline I've seen. There's another Late Roman Revival Alternate history that uses Romulus Augustulus as the point of divergence. If you do make this a series (And you really should, as lots of Alternate history scenarios don't get the time they need to really shine), I encourage you to be creative with the pieces on the board.
22:46 Eh, no big loss. It was a money hole at that point
Would be great to have a follow up to this that continues down the alternate timeline.
Discuss how the Roman Empire could have gone if the dude only made the right decision ^w^
fleets and ships are moored at port, not really parked. Parked is mostly for cars 😉😉
This is a pretty good what if video about an amazing character of his time. I believe without the backstabbing of his friend he would definitely have ruled a resurgent empire.
I wonder could you do the same scenario for Theodric The Great if his family line had not fallen apart, perhaps even scenario of the golf becoming more integrated with Rome and becoming Catholic. After all, I always thought, what would it be like if his golden age in Italy, had grown into a Gothic Roman empire fusion.
Can you make a video about GALLIENVS restore the empire? (Alternative History)
We need more of the Majorian timeline
I’m Majorian your videos.
Majorian sounds like a lot like General Grant. A superb general but too trusting to make a good politician.
Everybody should know about Majorian, Ricimer, Geiseric, etc
Majorian the second story with need it!
This got my heart racing and my eyes wet!
1:10 LET'S GOOO ELCHE MENTIONED but also Portus Illicitanus is modern day Santa Pola, not Elche
Great chapter can you make what if garmanices lifed longer
Then somebody else would have trigger a civil war after Majorian's peacefull death.
17:49 do I hear the plot of the battle of the milvian bridge repeating itself?
Would’ve been interesting if Maiorianus wanted to parade Geiseric through Rome in a Triumph before exile or more likely execution. Then Ricimer would’ve either made his move in northern Italia or waited until he could reach Geiseric himself.
As long as he fixed the succession problem nothing can stand in their way.
Damn you Ricimer...... Majorian may you rest in peace!!! ☹️
How do you make the art
currently, trying to save my Western Empire in Attila TW.. those hordes are inadequate, they dont really know what they even want
Wonderful video of a possibility of what could have been. Rip to the Roman Empire. The greatest empire of them all.
P.S. Could you make a what if the Romans fortified Italy and kept out the barbarian invasions maintaining,Latin rule over Italy?
The rest of the western empire would still fall.
"The greatest empire" then why is your comment in English?
@@precariousworlds3029 Rome inspired the Empires of Europe in the future. Rome brought civilization to Europe. Britannia was a colony of Rome.
One Thing intrigues Me How The Basilisk Tried Ti Become Emperor Afeter All That Tragedy in Cab Bon.
My guess - Majorian makes someone who isn't his son emperor and chooses them for competency. Perhaps Marcellinus or Nepotianus, or if they are dead, he maybe chooses Julius Nepos.
Or maybe that will cause his actual children to be jealous and cause a civil war, and THAT is how the empire dies.
Maybe Majoiran lessens the power of The Emperor and chooses his sons anyways, but by the time his Children take power, the generals have all the power, and use it to expand the Empire.
@@orrorsaness5942thats literally what caused the decline of rome in the first place
I guess one of the fascinating aspects of Roman History is that.... despite its whole hoast of misshaps and bad rulers... only one such event less and it migth have just been able to hold on. Until Rome itself fell for good it seems there was never a clear point you could point to and say "Here it was absolutly over." Hell I guess some people migth argue it wasnt realy over until Konstantinople fell almost another 1000 years later.
Wich pretty muhc continued the old ROman tradition of "One competent Emperor followed by multiple generations of absolute idiots" Wich I guess is the best Argument against a Monarchy. Sure you migth get that once in a century greater then life leader who basicly fixes everything and restores society at large... but you also get the 20 RUlers before and after that tearing it down again with speed.
U need to continue this timeline to at least the year 1,000
Always played this in my head. Even after the burn of the fleet. He does not disband the army, but blames the Vandals, Visigoths and Suebi, just to keep the army united. Attacks the Suebi and Visigoths and plots Frank Alemani and Burguands against each other. Completely destroys all three foederati, and makes alliance with Armorica and Basque. After some territorial corrections with the Franks and Alemany and Rugi, together with Marcellinus and the East destroys the Ostrogoths and takes more land. Success after success make people forget about the Vandals, for the moment. His image cemented, he, understanding Ricimer's plot, attacks him. After a brief civil war, Majorian is free. Clean up operations againstbevery barbarian entity not on the border and than, the united attack with the East on the vandals.....just some stupid man thinking 😂..... In your scenario, would attacking the Ostrogoths before dealing with Ricimer be better to cement his aura and remove mos Ricimer's supporters? Franks we 'good' allies and Allemmani were far away for the moment. What do you think? I could be completely wrong
I think the empire would still fall not too long after because of the conscription issue aswell as pollarization,inflation and such
I do know. Every great dynasty begins with a Caesar (like this alternative Maiorian) but ends end with a Nero (or maybe alternative Moiorian's successors, just like Theodosius the "Great" Western successors Honorius and Valentinian III). Any Imperial system's weakness is its dependence on the quality of its leader, the Emperor. Just witness, the later history of the East Roman Empire's Macedonian dynasty (mighty Basil II) which eventually lead to treachery by Alexios III and 1204 sack of Constantinople (from which it never recovered).
What total war mod is that ?
Reading Dr Michael Hudson's "...and forgive them their debts; Lending, Foreclosure and Redemption From Bronze Age Finance to the Jubilee Year", on page 237 I found this bit of information about Maiorianus which I thought I might share with you: "Attempts to tighten imperial tax collection were bound to alienate these officials, and especially the large landholders, who backed military warlords against emperors strong enough to restrain their grabbing. They overthrew Emperor Majorian (457-461), a former general, when in 458 he assigned tax collection to governors instead of local administrators as one of his first acts, his Novel No. 2, "On the Remission of Past Due Accounts," despite proclaiming an amnesty for land-tax arrears." You probably already knew about this, but on the off chance you weren't familiar with this I thought I would drop a few words. Excellent channel you have!
I love this alternative story though I'm afraid it's a bit too optimistic. The Romans were quite prone to civil war, and an emperor being a really good one was no guarantee that his son would be so as well, as seen in case of Marcus Aurelius.
a good successor is not too optimistic .
Far better time line 💪
Wow, amazing and moving video towards the end.
Has WRE survived, the ERE would not have lost lost Syria and Egypt for good, as they'd have the support of the West. Islam would not have spread, the Mediterranean would look radically different
Man, your really big on Majorian. Like Cornpop, Ricimer was a bad dude..
I HAVE A FEELING THAT YOU A MAIORIANUS FAN
I think it possible that Majorian II and his heirs would look to keep the stability of the Empire while growing in power to reconquer Britian. How long it would take to build the strentgh necessary to do so is questionable. But while in our timeline the Normans invaded Anglo-Saxon Britian, in this timeline it would be a Roman invasion, and several centuries earlier than our timeline. Even if an invasion of Britian does or does not take place, the next major problem facing this rebuilt Western Roman Empire would be what plagued the Europeans in our timeline: the North Men, Norsemen, or Vikings as we now call them. However, I think a united, Roman Europe and North Africa could have dealt with the Vikings much better than the fragmented kingdoms of Europe in our own timeline, with much bigger armies, navies, and resources than any of the fragmented kingdoms of Europe could ever bring against the Vikings. Shoud the Vikings be dealt with, who knows what the next challenge could be to this rebuilt Western Roman Empire.
can you do what if adronikos III or Constatine xi restored the eastern roman empire? love your alternative videos!
Would Areliuis ourianus (Arthur) not try to join this roman empire. I can imagen that he would send a message to the romans with the request to send legions to defend Britania.
Be honest, you _really_ enjoyed scratching your head for this video 😂
I wonder how the renaissance would play out, since the Western Roman Empire survived longer.
what about the rising franks
Majorian should have dispersed his fleet in different ports to reduce risk of sabotage.
Overall a great video and I’d love to see more!
But personally I don’t think ricimer was the James Bond villain you and others make him out to be. His actions weren’t good but I don’t think he did it with the purpose to destroy Rome and I do think he fought for Rome, he did Afterall fight off some vandal incursions years prior and later dealt with the Alans. I think his actions against Majorian were not because of evil plotting but desperation. When Majorian was defeated he’d already had issues iirc with the senate and ruling class so once he was defeated and had to disband his army it was clear he was done and so ricimer abandoned his ally and betrayed him. If Majorian had one he’d be squarely in his camp and stayed his ally.
I also don’t think Majorian had to be more distrustful either, something like the burning of his fleet is hard to avoid without hindsight or luck. Majorian was already successful and just needed the one thing to go differently to allow his victory.
Also I don’t think geinseric would’ve been executed in Carthage. There’s no way Majorian doesn’t execute him in Rome during his triumph.
Also, I don’t think he’d marry the eastern emperor’s daughter. Eudoxia. Daughter of emperor Valentinian III, who’s sister placidia had almost been married to Majorian, would make a far better choice. For she had the blood of the theodosian and valentian dynasties in her veins. Which no other women could boast. Marry her would give him the last bit of legitimacy he lacked.
no ricimer was a shitbag he is right.
25:43
I would love to see an alternate story vid made from you with my support someday about... what if Justinian stopped his reconquest of the West right after taking back North West Africa with Carthage & Sicily from the Vandals & Ostrogoths... never expanding into Italy itself, nor Hispania... but actually just enough to strengthen Eastern Rome there, but still have enough economic strength & military left to return East to fortify against any future Sassanid incursions, regardless if the plague hits or not... what if the Arab rise of Islam never happened? = How would history look like then?
How would Italy look today if not invaded by Eastern Rome?... would the buildings of glorious old ancient Rome look far more intact & maintained all around today? or would they just last a few more centuries longer before being invaded by the Franks or someone else with all fighting & economic situations?
Or what if the Western reconquests of Justinian never happened at all?... instead he spends his reign more wisely in maintaining the empire in economic prosperity + growth, fewer building projects and more on defensive measures against the Persians.
What if Basil the 2nd lived much longer in taking back Sicily & had a worthy heir to his throne in fixing the empire's internal issues with the theme system and noble issues, not Constantine the 8th.
What if the Turks lost at Manzikert? = No Turkish migrations means no calls for help from the west in crusades happening, or delayed at best... no 4th crusade + no Ottomans, no age of discovery for a few more centuries in delays... due to the East being still open by the silk routes to India & China by Constantinople for the western merchants to still trade easier.
Could Eastern Rome have had survived till today's world... going through the early modern periods in reforms & industrial revolutions all over in defending itself against the Mongols earlier in defence & diplomacy in trade deals without being conquered nor subdued by them?
What if Eastern Rome got gunpowder first in this alternate timeline before Europe did?
How would Eastern Rome interact with the rising West from the 16th to 19th centuries of imperialism leading to WW1 & WW2 eventfully... would they be able to take back all their original eastern territories, or stay between just the Balkans & Anatolia to Armenia and Syria?
How would they interact between the world being much larger than they thought after the Americas are discovered & far East as the world map comes to be? = and do you think that there would be economic & religious tensions between the Eastern Rome & the expansionistic West?
What would their new position be in this alternate world at home & global, and do you think they would be able to industrialize & catch up in technology in time to face Napoleon and the other western nations if invaded?
Would its population have a local explosion in economic growth beyond the walls of Constantinople, and industrialize beyond it into new urban areas and elsewhere throughout the empire to be a major power once again.
Would Eastern Rome become colonial itself? or stay home in its original border areas retaken while trading with everyone else to get wealth?
Would the middle east be far more stable in this timeline, or just as unstable as today's world in history... and would Greece be better off today as a nation with still having Eastern Rome's original lands of the earlier 1000s AD? = Would it still be called Eastern Rome, the roman empire or perhaps another name altogether in later reforms.
= Eastern Rome of Greece + Eastern Roman Republic, Greek Rome + Greco Roman Federation or something else entirely?... because I doubt it would still be an empire anymore after the first two world wars.
Would they be better off than the Ottomans were? + Would Constantinople today still look more intact with the rest of the nation than it is today with less ruins? + would it be a great tourist hotspot?... would it even be a great power of Eurasia still between Europe & west Asia?... and would the Parthenon in Athens be more amazing & intact without the Ottomans existing in accidentally blowing it up?
What would its possible relations with the west be today? = since it's the continuation of the roman empire in real legitimacy... How would it interact between Euro + NATO and the US, being a part of the first two alliance, or not & being its own alliance in Eastern Europe with others & West Asia?
Would the war on terror still happen if events were different with them around, making the middle east more stable with less tyrants... would Eastern Rome be a part of the war or remain neutral most of the time with closed secure borders?
And how do you think Eastern Rome would react to the situations now with Ukraine and Russia? = remain armed neutral as a mediator between the two to resolve it with the rest of the world in diplomacy... or would they pick a side between those events & long before that with the cold war previously.
Would previous relationships between Eastern Rome & Russia be on good terms leading up before now in trade & cultural ties, or would be still fighting with each other over many issues?
Would the emperor still be around today in a position as a constitutional monarch federal republic with a senate?... or perhaps be disbanded and reformed after the world wars?
Would Eastern Rome be an industrial power of the West like China as another factory of the world in trade goods made & more?
Would Eastern Rome be capitalist, communist, socialist... or even a combo as a nation?
There's so much that could change & happen if a single event happened quite differently... it's amazing to think of all the possibilities of how it would all turn out... hope you enjoyed these future ideas to use later on Majorianus. 😎😉
Hashtag/#: It's Eastern Roman Empire, not Byzantine! 😅💢
Ah yes Chadjorian...Hero of all time. Edit: Before watching this channel, I used to think that Majorian was simply a failed footnote in history. I no longer think this.
This made me cry...
I LIKE THIS TIMELINE!! AVE IMPERATOR CAESAR MAIORIANUS INVICTUS RESTITUTOR AUGUSTUS!!!!
3:12 for people that want to get straight to the point