On the point of mana leech on attack builds vs spell builds, i think its a balancing decision. I think from their perspective each archetype must deal with certain problems and overcome them, for attacks this is accuracy, and for spellcasters this is mana. However as you said there are multiple "cheese" options that favors some builds heavily, while other builds struggle. So it needs a change for sure.
I think ultimately the best way is to make sure every archetype has tech to spec into, rather than just giving a simple buff to non-archmage casters. So something nice for physical and chaos casters to solve mana (pride style fix where dealing phys or chaos damage helps you sustain mana?), and more tech for left side of the tree attack builds in a similar vein.
feel like melee situation is kinda weird now as well. mana leech fills your unreserved mana instantly but with the melee changes u run into using more than 100% of your unreserved mana per cast or close to it, so then u have to put the mana cost craft on every jewelry and still pick up some reduced cost for attacks. Then u invested 3+ skill points, 3 jewelry prefixes and 1 jewel suffix ( often times when league starting its kinda the whole jewel cus the mod is kinda rare) only to then instantly run dry when u cant hit something for 3s. idk if fixing mana should be part of melee attacks ( my example was from my slam league start experience) but if they want it to be part of it, they should provide more satisfying solutions. Then again im not sure if slam or strike skills should deal with this at all, they have a lot of other things to take care of. Also its kinda weird that some melee skills can reach 0 mana cost with 3 ring crafts and other dont, even though the skills are kinda the same and the difference between 1 mana cost and 0 can be massive depending on the attack speed.
I've hated the spellcaster mana situation for a while now. As you said, the only efficient way to solve it is cheesing it. The mana costs on some spells are just outrageous. I personally think spells don't have mana leech because attacks have to invest into accuracy, but the balance is very off atm and spells can't get to reasonable mana costs without much higher investment than attacks have to make into accuracy. Fundamentally, I don't think mana management is that fun, and the way GGG has implemented it currently is really miserable. Being able to cast your spells smoothly is mandatory for a build being enjoyable to play. Requiring some investment in mana as a tax on a build is fine, but only if the mana investment is at least reasonably efficient.
I couldn't agree more. Last four leagues I played self-caster on right side of the tree - mostly pathfinder, but also trickster. It was possible, even with the trickster which was CI Soulrend of the Spiral and I had to use Inspiration even with this chaos spell. But now it's just not possible. The only way is to do what Subtractem did last league and use EB and Replica Sorrow of the Divine and press your life flask every five sec to sustain your ES. Otherwise you have to sacrifice too much to sustain your mana... Or yeah, you can press mana flask over and over... But I just don't want to click any flask, that's why there is a mageblood and/ot pathfinder with flask sustain so you don't have to press flasks. And now you can tell me "just play attack build then" or "just play hiero archamge then" but that feels at least to me completely against the PoE philosophy to be able to play what ever you want on what ever class you want.
CI spell based builds can't really sustain mana at all right now, but if you drop CI then there's lots of options. You can play archmage on any ascendancy, or you can take EB. They're the best options. Blood magic via that unique helmet is a possibility (it also gives 20% more damage), I've used that a few times on balbala + corscationg elixir ES builds as you also take the life recharge node on tree and have permanent life recharge so basically infinite mana. Definitely don't look past blood mage, is very competitive right now
even archmage builds have to use inspiration and clarity mods to sustain mana, even when you lose max charges super fast and the dmg increase is really small but you need that cost reduction to even play the game at all, specially when, as you mention, you start to get more cast speed. Mana atm is a pain in the ass to deal with.
Thanks for the great video. It’s really interesting for a fairly new player as I’m not ready yet to make my own builds and such kind of videos are very helpful and hard to find
mana is such a bitch on any COC based builds right now. I've tried a few and you always have to do the most weird shit to make the build playable. One of them I just gave up on, wanted to do COC VD/DD with squire and the fire trigger axe and it was consuming at base ~500 mana/sec, and I wanted to force it on a CI trickster because I like the ascendancy. So no bloodmagic, no EB, no archmage. Stacked as much reduced mana cost as I could, cucking my damage by way more than half, and even then I couldn't sustain. Gave up on the build eventually, though it did clear maps comfortably as DD of chaining is insanely OP. Obviously in hindsight you go archmage, but I was really trying not to because it felt like a waste playing a non-heiro archmage build and I wanted to play trickster. I've also found a lot of success with discipline ES on hit watchers eye with EB, even on builds that can't stack much ES at all you only need ~100 or so ES and the watchers eye covers the rest. Not a bad cost for 2-3 passive points and 35% mana reservation, the watchers eye mod is basically free too so you can usually get a 2 stat jewel easily enough
I played VD DD Bow Elementalist in Sanctum I think, and the mana cost per second were so incredibly high. My only option was masteries, mana nodes, reduced flat mana and the 25% from the last. That was just barely enough, even with Inspiration. Played BAMA with EB last league, because otherwise it was too expensive to cast every 3-5 seconds. Now playing Holy Relic and I can't live without a mana gain on hit somewhere just for my trigger LSoS. It would be very nice to be able to solve some of these without always trying to reach as close to 0 mana/s as possible. (Note: Since minions can't usually gain charges in that way, Inspiration being universially wouldn't help them as well)
It definitely has pushed blood magic as a very viable alternative in a lot of cases, which is kinda interesting. Do I think it's worth killing off tons of different build archetypes and making the game feel worse in general to play for builds that can't interact with any mana cheese mechanics? Of course not. But, it's interesting to see the ways people find to cope with the changes. PoE players will always come up with creative solutions!
When I saw what they did to mana, I got confused reading the patch nodes. Didn't they wanted more build diversity? Wasn't that the whole purpose of doing some nerfs every new league... Not get so many players doing the same thing? Also, they even got rid of quant because "too many uniques was placing restrictions in what build you could play". I think... GGG could be more honest. They removed quant because they couldn't fix the economy. Necropolis was an inflation sh1tshow. And that scared away too much of the player base, specially the wales and people that play the game for many years already, That's why. They couldn't care less about build diversity. They are just following an industrial recipe. That's what this nerfs are. They are there just to give an impression of novelty and to fix the trade economy.
I used trickster EB a lot. Eb/mom is basically corrupted soul. You get a ton of es sustain. Throw call of the void on with tricksters built in chill and freeze defense and that was my go-to starter defense.
I'm playing the chaos damage version of Molten Strike of the zenith. I just have basically every skill except my mark on hit sniper's mark linked to a Life Tap. It let me reserve 91% of my mana as I don't need much to cast sniper's mark.
If you're going to make me spend points AND a support gem on it, as well as make it so there's a map mod I can never run, that's fine, but it should solve the problem. I don't mind mana being a puzzle I'm supposed to solve for spell builds, and GGG gives us the tools to solve it, the tools they've provided are just completely impotent right now. Make the cost of skills OR the regen nodes stronger on the top side of the tree, it feels impossible on non-archmage to get mana regen that oversaturates cost, and it feels impossible to get low enough cost of skills for really high cast rate playstyles (the most fun playstyles of spells in my opinion). I don't mind being forced to consider those stats due to not having access to leech, but when I consider them but am genuinely incapable of fitting enough of them while still making a solid build, the points are just too inefficient on the tree. Archmage is a fun playstyle but in my opinion it's way too strong compared to other styles of building a spell build right now, it solves every issue a build might have by just clicking more mana nodes. This isn't necessarily an issue, I think stat-stacking builds are basically only viable when that's the paradigm they're opting into, but it feels really bad when the best way to build literally any spell you might think of is to just go a Heiro and stack mana. Feels like other build styles have way more hoops to jump through to be functional with way less payoff in defenses and damage, and that's just not good balance.
I have been making a beacon of madness build with ward, and Olroth for simulacrum. Simulacrum takes so long that you will for the most part have all the debuffs throughout most of it. It is a bit of a meme, but it is immortal, and it can deal a lot of damage,
Doesn’t help that when you try to get more max mana auras just eat 90% of whatever you gain so even t1 mana basically only gets you an extra 10 mana. I would like to see EB turned into a support gem or modifiers like 15% of mana cost is taken from ES before mana.
you take flat mana for the extra mana regen rate, not for the flat mana (unless archmage obviously). Higher mana pool means you recover more per second as you naturally recover some % of mana per second. That said, it is way better to go for mana regen suffix on gear, rather than flat mana prefix. But suffix are more valuable so really just depends
@@MyNameIsSalo 2 base mana regen from t1 mana that takes a prefix that are also valuable. My original point was that that even trying to circumvent with more max mana so you can use more skills before you gas out and have to regen again is not ideal. Do you think if they made a secondary backup resource for skills similar to rage to make mana costs cheaper the more of the secondary resource you have a good alternative?
In 3.25 MOTL divine blessing Grace on my Armour Stacker went from 34~ish mana, to 203 mana. Same setup. Dropped Wrath for Blood and Sand and and now I have more damage and AoE. GO figure.
GGG is constantly nerfing the fun out of this game because they balance it around the 0,1% who play 12 hours a day to completely break the game and it sucks. People who love this game but still do have a real life are left in the dust..
60% more damage probably still won't save my baby caustic ground scaling caustic arrow. Poison Caustic Arrow was a nice alternative way to play the skill, but the non-poison version has been dead for a long time, and with the latest wither nerfs it's been just... awful. Give me back my chaos DoT, GGG >:( (btw if you disagree with me, PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG I BEG U TELL ME IM WRONG and post a receipt for me to look at :3)
You can also solve it by 20 passive points and/or rolling mana mods on your items... What's a bad design on being able to choose how you solve your problem? Ultimately you can say that basic attacks are useless and it is bad game design to solve this problem by using any gems at all... Lowering mana consumption is a completely ok thing how a support gem can modify your skill but you can have thousands of mana regen per second so it's not like you would always have to solve it by the 1 gem.
From my point of view, the direction to cap things and remove additive stats which started with Queen of the Forest way back when doesn't feel great at this point. In combination with the changes to the passive tree, which massively reward staying close to the classes starting area on most builds, theorycrafting builds has become super stale to me. I used to start a league with 10 different ideas, nowadays I struggle to come up with a single build that seems interesting to me. Most builds are solved the moment I choose a skill and ascendancy, there's an obvious best choice for most slots and it's getting boring, imo. Then there's things like mana, reservation, flask sustain or ailment and stun immunity every build has to solve, which GGG seems to make harder to get every patch. Tldr: I'm not convinced I like the direction the build side of the game is going.
That’s your problem, stop looking at what others are doing and stop comparing. Do your thing and have fun. It’s like people forgot gaming is about self discovery and fun and replaced it with D’ measuring contests.
@@KALClFER Dude, I've been crafting my own builds since I started playing in 1.6. What I'm saying is, it's gotten to a point where when I pick a Warden and want to play any Strike skill, I can not skip suppression, I can not skip melee splash for non projectile strikes, I can not skip the attack extra proj wheel for LS etc. Throw in some life and tincture nodes you also can't skip as Warden and that's basically the whole tree. I used to play CI Raiders, nowadays it's so inefficient I can't anymore.
@@fkaliases I also feel like we are so suffocated with requirements, we need chaos resist, we need some massive ele mitigation either max res or suppression or both. Then if you are right side you probably are going crit in most cases leaving little to no pool of hp left. I think having mandatory stats goes against what I like build expression.
@@watermelon58 The worst part imo is the feeling that classes and ascendancies are becoming more and more boxed in every patch. I can't even recall when I last managed to build a successful melee witch. Archetypes also have this issue... Before looking at the specifics, I was playing with the idea of retaliation skills using a staff on scion. 10 minutes later I closed PoB and scrapped the concept after comparing staff and shield block and actually reading the Gladiator retaliation node.
i was wondering why coc soulrend is not popular then i built it and got that all alt versions of soulrend other than reaping is like 80mana per trigger which is unplayable and reaping have no piercing and shoots 1 proj at time so you additionally have to link gmp and find somewhere pierce to have at least somewhat acceptable clearing and even then its still runs out of mana sometimes ~20 mana cost soulrend reaping with assassasin mark on hit ~50mana with 2 rare -8 non-channeling rings clarity watcher eye for -10 most passive tree nods and masteries for reduced mana cost and mana flask its just insane
for coc builds you only really have 2 options, archmage or EB. And if you go EB, get ES on hit discipline watchers eye, you now have infinite mana. If you need to stay ES based can also go low life w/ balbala and take blood magic and the life recharge notable on tree. This makes your ES recharge apply to life, and because youre blood magic you only cast with your life pool, so you have basically infinite mana. Use ES as your defence so you never take life damage. This build needs to path down to blood magic or take the blood magic helmet though, so usually only played on str stacking inquisitors. But technically usable on any ascendancy Don't bother trying to stack reduced mana cost. That's only viable if you are a heiro or inquis taking the heiros reduced mana cost node (jewels cost like 80-100d right now). For any other ascendancy, you cannot sustain mana cost with COC spell setups by going minus and reduced cost. Not possible.
I'm sorry for anyone that enjoys mana as a game design thing but personally fuck mana it is the lamest thing ever invented in gaming. I don't mind it so much as a mana stacking build or when we could reducing it to zero or 1 but outside of that it is so boring and old feeling design. Personally think it would be way better if most skills were basically just free or it was like a baseline thing you just fixed in the early to mid game like resistances. Personally I'd fix mana design by just removing it and using things like combo build ups, cooldowns, or ultimates to be the thing you are limited by not your every day ability you just spam.
@Epindary feels like an extreme leap in logic when I'm saying mana as a limiting factor in your ability to engage with your character is an outdated and lame design. Compared to other systems that limit your ability to play your character.
Leech is 1 point fix but honestly shooting a bow or slamming a hammer makes no sense to even cost any mana in the first place so the mana cost here is more likely just so the 11 link claws are not too broken or for players to actually care about at least 1 map mod
Slamming a hammer or shooting a bow DOESN'T cost any mana... if you're using a basic attack. But if you're using a Virtue Gem to empower your attacks it makes sense for it to cost mana
@@MitchPalego What's then a difference between an attack and a spell? And what sense makes all the gems that cost life/es or nothing instead of mana? And why are there gems that empowers your attacks while reducing your mana cost? And what sense even makes that your ring can talk with your gem to convince it to actually not need any mana at all? Or what you think is then the real reason all the attack builds solve their mana with 1 node but mages have to care?
I guess he could mention it but it's kinda the same as blood magic and it has 300% cost multiplier so you might pay 500+ life for every cast without any option making it lower through mana modifiers
@@petrjara7559500 life is like nothing ... Sucks that the only ways to deal with mana is to find a way to either not use mana at all ... Or use it for literally everything
@@toukoenriaze9870 like nothing? If you play discharge ig but get some cast speed on a normal skill and I wanna see you having 4000+ life recovery per second on an ES build
I think the concensus is : GGG wants people to actually use Mana Flasks again and not just in a pinch during campain every now and then. They inavertably also nerfed Aurabots by a tad with that. Also many things you listed caoght strays by this " fix " .
Yes, playing coc is very hard now, and the problem is mana cost. It could be resolved, but it takes too much resources which is already in huge demand on coc build. Stop playing coc entirely this league. Tried it in 2.24, it was not the best experience, and it cost me like 400d to make something playable build.
Ivory Tower/Energy Blade Inquisitor (the CaptainLance spellblade/battlemage shell with Lancing Steel of Spraying) still works just as well as it always did, since it already took Blood Magic. Not the cheapest build, but you can definitely get it going on a very sub-Mageblood budget and make the expensive upgrades later.
Are you serious? Were you actually capable of watching this video and reaching that completely absurd conclusion, which is basically the exact opposite of what's actually happening? Good lord, man. I don't think you could be a bigger failure if you tried.
Its impressive that you complain about mana costs and how supposedly trivial for attack builds to handle it. Attack builds still have to deal with something casters have never had to deal with: Accuracy. If casters had to deal with getting even 1500 accuracy you'd be crying but you think that the handful of mana fixing attack builds need is not alot.
@@ryy1704 Eldritch battery also exists. And you can play casters anyway also, just cast once every 10 sec just like how melee would only hit once every 10 hits without accuracy.
its so much easier to deal with accuracy than it is mana, and you dont get punished by increased attack speed with accuracy. Hell on jugg accuracy is nice mod to have on rings and stuff
@@ShaunhanM It doesn't matter how "easy" accuracy is to fix, when caster straight up don't need any. You also pretend mana isn't a thing on attack builds these days when pal needed to list half a dozen things attack builds have access to. Try playing an attack build with just 1 mana leech node, i'm sure the main skill taking over 50 mana these days can be handled by that alone.
![What Build Should You Play in Settlers League Fresh Start? [PoE 3.25]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uUHeMyZwAv8/mqdefault.jpg)
Hope I didn't make anyone hungry with the amount of cheese I threw into the vid.
goddamn it pal, now I want some cheese. how dare you throw so much cheese around!
@@vircoromance2666 Could be worse, there's people coming onto my stream and simply typing "kebap", it's cruel.
@@Palsteron goddamn it, now I want kebap with cheese, stop it with the food NOOOOOOOOO!!!!
7:00 this is how CWC . DESECRATE . DD/VD is fixed with archmage and hugemana pool. lazy hold it down and cyclone ez gameplay
On the point of mana leech on attack builds vs spell builds, i think its a balancing decision. I think from their perspective each archetype must deal with certain problems and overcome them, for attacks this is accuracy, and for spellcasters this is mana. However as you said there are multiple "cheese" options that favors some builds heavily, while other builds struggle. So it needs a change for sure.
I think ultimately the best way is to make sure every archetype has tech to spec into, rather than just giving a simple buff to non-archmage casters. So something nice for physical and chaos casters to solve mana (pride style fix where dealing phys or chaos damage helps you sustain mana?), and more tech for left side of the tree attack builds in a similar vein.
Mana leech doesnt exist because indigon exists
feel like melee situation is kinda weird now as well. mana leech fills your unreserved mana instantly but with the melee changes u run into using more than 100% of your unreserved mana per cast or close to it, so then u have to put the mana cost craft on every jewelry and still pick up some reduced cost for attacks. Then u invested 3+ skill points, 3 jewelry prefixes and 1 jewel suffix ( often times when league starting its kinda the whole jewel cus the mod is kinda rare) only to then instantly run dry when u cant hit something for 3s.
idk if fixing mana should be part of melee attacks ( my example was from my slam league start experience) but if they want it to be part of it, they should provide more satisfying solutions.
Then again im not sure if slam or strike skills should deal with this at all, they have a lot of other things to take care of.
Also its kinda weird that some melee skills can reach 0 mana cost with 3 ring crafts and other dont, even though the skills are kinda the same and the difference between 1 mana cost and 0 can be massive depending on the attack speed.
I've hated the spellcaster mana situation for a while now. As you said, the only efficient way to solve it is cheesing it. The mana costs on some spells are just outrageous. I personally think spells don't have mana leech because attacks have to invest into accuracy, but the balance is very off atm and spells can't get to reasonable mana costs without much higher investment than attacks have to make into accuracy.
Fundamentally, I don't think mana management is that fun, and the way GGG has implemented it currently is really miserable. Being able to cast your spells smoothly is mandatory for a build being enjoyable to play. Requiring some investment in mana as a tax on a build is fine, but only if the mana investment is at least reasonably efficient.
Im a huge fan of gaming companies running out of ideas for making their game better, so they instead make it worse and then give us a solution later.
I couldn't agree more. Last four leagues I played self-caster on right side of the tree - mostly pathfinder, but also trickster. It was possible, even with the trickster which was CI Soulrend of the Spiral and I had to use Inspiration even with this chaos spell. But now it's just not possible. The only way is to do what Subtractem did last league and use EB and Replica Sorrow of the Divine and press your life flask every five sec to sustain your ES. Otherwise you have to sacrifice too much to sustain your mana... Or yeah, you can press mana flask over and over... But I just don't want to click any flask, that's why there is a mageblood and/ot pathfinder with flask sustain so you don't have to press flasks. And now you can tell me "just play attack build then" or "just play hiero archamge then" but that feels at least to me completely against the PoE philosophy to be able to play what ever you want on what ever class you want.
CI spell based builds can't really sustain mana at all right now, but if you drop CI then there's lots of options. You can play archmage on any ascendancy, or you can take EB. They're the best options. Blood magic via that unique helmet is a possibility (it also gives 20% more damage), I've used that a few times on balbala + corscationg elixir ES builds as you also take the life recharge node on tree and have permanent life recharge so basically infinite mana. Definitely don't look past blood mage, is very competitive right now
even archmage builds have to use inspiration and clarity mods to sustain mana, even when you lose max charges super fast and the dmg increase is really small but you need that cost reduction to even play the game at all, specially when, as you mention, you start to get more cast speed. Mana atm is a pain in the ass to deal with.
Thanks for the great video. It’s really interesting for a fairly new player as I’m not ready yet to make my own builds and such kind of videos are very helpful and hard to find
mana is such a bitch on any COC based builds right now. I've tried a few and you always have to do the most weird shit to make the build playable. One of them I just gave up on, wanted to do COC VD/DD with squire and the fire trigger axe and it was consuming at base ~500 mana/sec, and I wanted to force it on a CI trickster because I like the ascendancy. So no bloodmagic, no EB, no archmage. Stacked as much reduced mana cost as I could, cucking my damage by way more than half, and even then I couldn't sustain. Gave up on the build eventually, though it did clear maps comfortably as DD of chaining is insanely OP.
Obviously in hindsight you go archmage, but I was really trying not to because it felt like a waste playing a non-heiro archmage build and I wanted to play trickster. I've also found a lot of success with discipline ES on hit watchers eye with EB, even on builds that can't stack much ES at all you only need ~100 or so ES and the watchers eye covers the rest. Not a bad cost for 2-3 passive points and 35% mana reservation, the watchers eye mod is basically free too so you can usually get a 2 stat jewel easily enough
I played VD DD Bow Elementalist in Sanctum I think, and the mana cost per second were so incredibly high.
My only option was masteries, mana nodes, reduced flat mana and the 25% from the last. That was just barely enough, even with Inspiration.
Played BAMA with EB last league, because otherwise it was too expensive to cast every 3-5 seconds.
Now playing Holy Relic and I can't live without a mana gain on hit somewhere just for my trigger LSoS.
It would be very nice to be able to solve some of these without always trying to reach as close to 0 mana/s as possible.
(Note: Since minions can't usually gain charges in that way, Inspiration being universially wouldn't help them as well)
Great information you gathered here, just in time for me before I start my next build.
It definitely has pushed blood magic as a very viable alternative in a lot of cases, which is kinda interesting. Do I think it's worth killing off tons of different build archetypes and making the game feel worse in general to play for builds that can't interact with any mana cheese mechanics? Of course not. But, it's interesting to see the ways people find to cope with the changes. PoE players will always come up with creative solutions!
When I saw what they did to mana, I got confused reading the patch nodes.
Didn't they wanted more build diversity? Wasn't that the whole purpose of doing some nerfs every new league... Not get so many players doing the same thing? Also, they even got rid of quant because "too many uniques was placing restrictions in what build you could play".
I think... GGG could be more honest. They removed quant because they couldn't fix the economy. Necropolis was an inflation sh1tshow. And that scared away too much of the player base, specially the wales and people that play the game for many years already, That's why. They couldn't care less about build diversity. They are just following an industrial recipe. That's what this nerfs are. They are there just to give an impression of novelty and to fix the trade economy.
I used trickster EB a lot. Eb/mom is basically corrupted soul. You get a ton of es sustain. Throw call of the void on with tricksters built in chill and freeze defense and that was my go-to starter defense.
I'm playing the chaos damage version of Molten Strike of the zenith. I just have basically every skill except my mark on hit sniper's mark linked to a Life Tap. It let me reserve 91% of my mana as I don't need much to cast sniper's mark.
If you're going to make me spend points AND a support gem on it, as well as make it so there's a map mod I can never run, that's fine, but it should solve the problem.
I don't mind mana being a puzzle I'm supposed to solve for spell builds, and GGG gives us the tools to solve it, the tools they've provided are just completely impotent right now.
Make the cost of skills OR the regen nodes stronger on the top side of the tree, it feels impossible on non-archmage to get mana regen that oversaturates cost, and it feels impossible to get low enough cost of skills for really high cast rate playstyles (the most fun playstyles of spells in my opinion). I don't mind being forced to consider those stats due to not having access to leech, but when I consider them but am genuinely incapable of fitting enough of them while still making a solid build, the points are just too inefficient on the tree.
Archmage is a fun playstyle but in my opinion it's way too strong compared to other styles of building a spell build right now, it solves every issue a build might have by just clicking more mana nodes. This isn't necessarily an issue, I think stat-stacking builds are basically only viable when that's the paradigm they're opting into, but it feels really bad when the best way to build literally any spell you might think of is to just go a Heiro and stack mana. Feels like other build styles have way more hoops to jump through to be functional with way less payoff in defenses and damage, and that's just not good balance.
I feel they should damage AND mana regen/reduce mana cost nodes in the tree. You should never feel punished for taking mana sustain
Chaos skills don’t need archmage but chaos skills are worse than every other spell. Doesn’t mean I haven’t had fun with void sphere of rending.
I have been making a beacon of madness build with ward, and Olroth for simulacrum. Simulacrum takes so long that you will for the most part have all the debuffs throughout most of it.
It is a bit of a meme, but it is immortal, and it can deal a lot of damage,
that's basically what I've been setting up for the last few days yeah, glad to hear it works well! vid soon
Doesn’t help that when you try to get more max mana auras just eat 90% of whatever you gain so even t1 mana basically only gets you an extra 10 mana. I would like to see EB turned into a support gem or modifiers like 15% of mana cost is taken from ES before mana.
you take flat mana for the extra mana regen rate, not for the flat mana (unless archmage obviously). Higher mana pool means you recover more per second as you naturally recover some % of mana per second. That said, it is way better to go for mana regen suffix on gear, rather than flat mana prefix. But suffix are more valuable so really just depends
@@MyNameIsSalo 2 base mana regen from t1 mana that takes a prefix that are also valuable. My original point was that that even trying to circumvent with more max mana so you can use more skills before you gas out and have to regen again is not ideal.
Do you think if they made a secondary backup resource for skills similar to rage to make mana costs cheaper the more of the secondary resource you have a good alternative?
Now I understand why EB contagion is terrible besides the fact that is a two button build
Life Mastery has 15% of mana cost taken from life, I often use that one to make skills cheaper it's pretty good.
GGG, *please* give us a few tools back to help w mana costs. "Deal with it" is becoming a bit grating.
What mid league mana fixes?
In 3.25 MOTL divine blessing Grace on my Armour Stacker went from 34~ish mana, to 203 mana. Same setup. Dropped Wrath for Blood and Sand and and now I have more damage and AoE. GO figure.
GGG is constantly nerfing the fun out of this game because they balance it around the 0,1% who play 12 hours a day to completely break the game and it sucks.
People who love this game but still do have a real life are left in the dust..
Absolution summoners are crying...
The 10% instant from leech mastery is kinda nice.
I play all Pathfinder with Replica Sorrow or Archmage shenanigans so I don't think too much about it
And here I am, playing Archmage CoC blasting just about any T17 mod :)
60% more damage probably still won't save my baby caustic ground scaling caustic arrow. Poison Caustic Arrow was a nice alternative way to play the skill, but the non-poison version has been dead for a long time, and with the latest wither nerfs it's been just... awful.
Give me back my chaos DoT, GGG >:(
(btw if you disagree with me, PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG I BEG U TELL ME IM WRONG and post a receipt for me to look at :3)
just play poison, anything poison is really strong right now and its ltierality the same as chaos dot.
A gem supposed to enhance or modify a skill. If a user has to use a gem to solve build problems, that's bad design.
You can also solve it by 20 passive points and/or rolling mana mods on your items... What's a bad design on being able to choose how you solve your problem?
Ultimately you can say that basic attacks are useless and it is bad game design to solve this problem by using any gems at all... Lowering mana consumption is a completely ok thing how a support gem can modify your skill but you can have thousands of mana regen per second so it's not like you would always have to solve it by the 1 gem.
From my point of view, the direction to cap things and remove additive stats which started with Queen of the Forest way back when doesn't feel great at this point. In combination with the changes to the passive tree, which massively reward staying close to the classes starting area on most builds, theorycrafting builds has become super stale to me.
I used to start a league with 10 different ideas, nowadays I struggle to come up with a single build that seems interesting to me. Most builds are solved the moment I choose a skill and ascendancy, there's an obvious best choice for most slots and it's getting boring, imo.
Then there's things like mana, reservation, flask sustain or ailment and stun immunity every build has to solve, which GGG seems to make harder to get every patch.
Tldr: I'm not convinced I like the direction the build side of the game is going.
That’s your problem, stop looking at what others are doing and stop comparing. Do your thing and have fun. It’s like people forgot gaming is about self discovery and fun and replaced it with D’ measuring contests.
@@KALClFER Dude, I've been crafting my own builds since I started playing in 1.6. What I'm saying is, it's gotten to a point where when I pick a Warden and want to play any Strike skill, I can not skip suppression, I can not skip melee splash for non projectile strikes, I can not skip the attack extra proj wheel for LS etc. Throw in some life and tincture nodes you also can't skip as Warden and that's basically the whole tree. I used to play CI Raiders, nowadays it's so inefficient I can't anymore.
@@fkaliases I also feel like we are so suffocated with requirements, we need chaos resist, we need some massive ele mitigation either max res or suppression or both. Then if you are right side you probably are going crit in most cases leaving little to no pool of hp left. I think having mandatory stats goes against what I like build expression.
@@watermelon58 The worst part imo is the feeling that classes and ascendancies are becoming more and more boxed in every patch. I can't even recall when I last managed to build a successful melee witch.
Archetypes also have this issue... Before looking at the specifics, I was playing with the idea of retaliation skills using a staff on scion. 10 minutes later I closed PoB and scrapped the concept after comparing staff and shield block and actually reading the Gladiator retaliation node.
Yeah, Clarity is my best friend this league lol
Yeah ... RIP coc cyclone ice spear
i was wondering why coc soulrend is not popular then i built it and got that all alt versions of soulrend other than reaping is like 80mana per trigger which is unplayable and reaping have no piercing and shoots 1 proj at time so you additionally have to link gmp and find somewhere pierce to have at least somewhat acceptable clearing and even then its still runs out of mana sometimes ~20 mana cost soulrend reaping with assassasin mark on hit ~50mana with 2 rare -8 non-channeling rings clarity watcher eye for -10 most passive tree nods and masteries for reduced mana cost and mana flask its just insane
for coc builds you only really have 2 options, archmage or EB. And if you go EB, get ES on hit discipline watchers eye, you now have infinite mana.
If you need to stay ES based can also go low life w/ balbala and take blood magic and the life recharge notable on tree. This makes your ES recharge apply to life, and because youre blood magic you only cast with your life pool, so you have basically infinite mana. Use ES as your defence so you never take life damage. This build needs to path down to blood magic or take the blood magic helmet though, so usually only played on str stacking inquisitors. But technically usable on any ascendancy
Don't bother trying to stack reduced mana cost. That's only viable if you are a heiro or inquis taking the heiros reduced mana cost node (jewels cost like 80-100d right now). For any other ascendancy, you cannot sustain mana cost with COC spell setups by going minus and reduced cost. Not possible.
I'm sorry for anyone that enjoys mana as a game design thing but personally fuck mana it is the lamest thing ever invented in gaming. I don't mind it so much as a mana stacking build or when we could reducing it to zero or 1 but outside of that it is so boring and old feeling design. Personally think it would be way better if most skills were basically just free or it was like a baseline thing you just fixed in the early to mid game like resistances.
Personally I'd fix mana design by just removing it and using things like combo build ups, cooldowns, or ultimates to be the thing you are limited by not your every day ability you just spam.
Yeah building damage is so outdated too, let us just 1 shot every mob
@Epindary feels like an extreme leap in logic when I'm saying mana as a limiting factor in your ability to engage with your character is an outdated and lame design. Compared to other systems that limit your ability to play your character.
@@Epindary That comment doesn't make you look as smart as you think it does.
Thankfully mana leech is plenty
Super annoying though
Leech is 1 point fix but honestly shooting a bow or slamming a hammer makes no sense to even cost any mana in the first place so the mana cost here is more likely just so the 11 link claws are not too broken or for players to actually care about at least 1 map mod
Slamming a hammer or shooting a bow DOESN'T cost any mana... if you're using a basic attack. But if you're using a Virtue Gem to empower your attacks it makes sense for it to cost mana
@@MitchPalego What's then a difference between an attack and a spell? And what sense makes all the gems that cost life/es or nothing instead of mana? And why are there gems that empowers your attacks while reducing your mana cost? And what sense even makes that your ring can talk with your gem to convince it to actually not need any mana at all? Or what you think is then the real reason all the attack builds solve their mana with 1 node but mages have to care?
Mana has always been garbage since like 3.15
Isnt it a massive oversight of you to not mention lifetap support in a mana cost video?
I guess he could mention it but it's kinda the same as blood magic and it has 300% cost multiplier so you might pay 500+ life for every cast without any option making it lower through mana modifiers
@@petrjara7559500 life is like nothing ... Sucks that the only ways to deal with mana is to find a way to either not use mana at all ... Or use it for literally everything
@@toukoenriaze9870 like nothing? If you play discharge ig but get some cast speed on a normal skill and I wanna see you having 4000+ life recovery per second on an ES build
i simply leech.
I think the concensus is : GGG wants people to actually use Mana Flasks again and not just in a pinch during campain every now and then.
They inavertably also nerfed Aurabots by a tad with that.
Also many things you listed caoght strays by this " fix " .
tbf. if I have to use a mana flask, I just quit the league instead
imagin remove the elreon mod.
lifetap btw, really easy way to fix mana issues on a lot of life based casters, just saying, the precious lifetap :)
The blood magic tech already existed before eternal blessing lel
Yes, playing coc is very hard now, and the problem is mana cost. It could be resolved, but it takes too much resources which is already in huge demand on coc build. Stop playing coc entirely this league. Tried it in 2.24, it was not the best experience, and it cost me like 400d to make something playable build.
Ivory Tower/Energy Blade Inquisitor (the CaptainLance spellblade/battlemage shell with Lancing Steel of Spraying) still works just as well as it always did, since it already took Blood Magic. Not the cheapest build, but you can definitely get it going on a very sub-Mageblood budget and make the expensive upgrades later.
Oh no the builds that delete screens have mana issues. 😢
Are you serious? Were you actually capable of watching this video and reaching that completely absurd conclusion, which is basically the exact opposite of what's actually happening?
Good lord, man. I don't think you could be a bigger failure if you tried.
Its impressive that you complain about mana costs and how supposedly trivial for attack builds to handle it. Attack builds still have to deal with something casters have never had to deal with: Accuracy. If casters had to deal with getting even 1500 accuracy you'd be crying but you think that the handful of mana fixing attack builds need is not alot.
Resolute technique exists, and even a build with poor accuracy is still at least playable
@@ryy1704
Eldritch battery also exists. And you can play casters anyway also, just cast once every 10 sec just like how melee would only hit once every 10 hits without accuracy.
its so much easier to deal with accuracy than it is mana, and you dont get punished by increased attack speed with accuracy. Hell on jugg accuracy is nice mod to have on rings and stuff
@@ShaunhanM
It doesn't matter how "easy" accuracy is to fix, when caster straight up don't need any. You also pretend mana isn't a thing on attack builds these days when pal needed to list half a dozen things attack builds have access to. Try playing an attack build with just 1 mana leech node, i'm sure the main skill taking over 50 mana these days can be handled by that alone.