It's not about power level. I also play Samut and it can go crazy, don't get me wrong. But if he didn't have the turn 2 lurking predators, and selvala to refill his hand, the game would go to the tergrid deck without any doubt. He had a bomb and noone had an answer. It snowballed and this was expected. Then again I wouldn't say mana crypt is a casual card, but tergrid player had one as well.
@@samoumek801 So are you saying that all 4 decks at the table were a good match for each other? In their other casual videos they have an outline on what is and isnt allowed to be in the 99. The guests did not follow those rules and it seems like Cam and Dylan did. Dyaln is running bounce lands and Joe played a Gaes Cradle. This just looked like a recorded pub stomp.
@@gundamassassin241 yeah true. I only saw that tergrid player also demonic tutored for mana crypt so it seemed fair since Joe's deck pretty much plays mana dorks and chonky bois and not much else. And I didn't see much of play to win decks so it might be that their decks were far more casual.
@@DUES_EX We are starting a deck tech in the month of April for our Patreon members! I'll keep you posted. In the meantime if you can't wait for another episode I did just start a TikTok for MTG entertainment XD
That has always been the problem with "casual" EDH, yes. That's not to throw shade either, I enjoy the casual spectrum more than cEDH. But it's just that, a spectrum, and thus it takes a lot more effort and understanding to properly construct your pods.
For the love of playing EDH on webcam and having fun while at it: leave your Tergrid decks on the shelf! I bet there's a lot of editing cuts out because of Tergrid ability: "what you got there? (makes token with marker) what else? (makes token with marker) anything else? (makes another token with marker). Love you guys
Not getting into the whole "cedh vs casual" debate, but the power levels here were definitely not the same so I wonder, Cam & Dylan - do you guys have decks that aren't cedh but are optimized, ultra high power? A rematch with some equal footing would be enjoyable to watch. Love the channel fellas, keep up the excellent work!
I just started watching the video and both of the players from I hate your deck have mana crypts in play and play to win does not...can you specify why you think their decks are higher power level?
@@ExTrEmEStOrW casual is just a fun game night with friends. edh is the game they are playing. cedh is a sub-group of the game they are playing, the highest tier of play,
I think the only real takeaway from this game is that casual Commander decks don't pack enough interaction and get exploited for it by intense value engines. This game would have looked pretty different if Lurking Predators had been answered immediately, having Tergrid play Kingmaker on accident didn't help either. This may have been cEDH speed, but the way it all played out is pretty indicative of why casual Commander has so many "problems"
I have always wondered why none has board removal. Most ofnthese states are pretty easy to break (excepr for fucking blue shennegians). As an yugioh and magic player, i find the tendency to just "ignore" removal in any maggic format weird (amongst casuals), every yugioh casual knows tha they need some form of negate/removal, less so magic.
I love the fact that the cEDH channel has a better understanding of a high power casual deck rather than the "casual" players. I also laughed so hard on your reactions to the casual cards you have never seen before. Keep up the good work guys, you post the cEDH content but you are pretty good casual players too. :D
This is why CEDH is way more balanced than casual EDH. Even if you think you have balanced decks and play high power, you end up with big power gaps between decks.
Thats why you ban cards to make casual EDH balanced. Ban mana positive manarocks for example. An honest and true assessment of the powerlevel of your casual deck also helps. Talking about the power of the decks before the games also makes the games more enjoyable.
@@Schatten941 I don't think banning is the answer. Talking with your playgroup is, but it is extremely hard to asses power level, a good exemple of that would be all that's happening on the PlayEDH discord server and despise all their efforts, there are still a lot of complains about power level, except in the cedh bracket.
@@Lukaszgbur I just think cEDH and edh should be 2 different games. Talking doesn't seem to work, as Aneta just assumed anything was go. Which is what usually happens if playing outside your play group. Also he played biorhythm, which is banned.
Good game, was fun to watch, though, a couple things. There was certainly a power difference between I HATE YOUR DECK & PLAY TO WIN. Bringing mana crypt + Tergrid isnt exactly casual (im fine with the power-level, but it was superior to what the others were playing). Also, "theft" decks like Tergrid are not very fun to watch when they are webcam games like this because its hard to follow what exactly they steal as the white blank cards are not the easiest to read.
@@pefp2008 Right, mana crypt itself doesnt necessarily make it cedh, but it does amp the power considerably. In the video, it was stated that it was a "casual" game, while casual means many different things to different people, generally $100 cards, and turn 4 wins, arent a part of that.
Personally, I don’t think card quality and price determines whether a card is casual or not, but rather how quickly a deck can consistently win. Like in game knights over at command zone, those decks are absolutely casual, but they use crypt and duals
card cuallity is what defines competitive building mindset. Optimization s everything. Bloodpod dont win fast, but it still considered competitive. I wil never bring my bloodpod in to a casual eviroment, but if people are playing things like mana crypt, craddle, fw or dt... i will do it to get in with equal foot.
Ah yes, the good old "two players do not have gas and the other two have their decks go BRRRRR" casual experience T_T The bad part is, since this is casual, the pain is looooong.
Holly shit! What a crazy game! Definitely adds to your podcast convo about casual, and competitive being the same format ultimately. Great stuff guys! Between this game, and his command zone appearance, Joe is clearly a force to be reckoned with!!
The “If you’re not playing UBRx Ad Nauseum, you aren’t playing cEDH” people are exactly the ones I avoid. It’s a philosophy, not a decklist. Go enjoy your pubstomping somewhere else pls
@@paulmcclain642 Don't wrap cEDH players, even the douchebags, in with the pubstompers. Those people are just trash and they exist in both cEDH and regular EDH.
This is my favorite mtg channel to watch. With that said, there was quite a difference in power. It did make this video a bit unenjoyable at some points. It seemed like a pub stomp
Cam and Dylan: “We are going to play some CASUAL today should be fun” Joe: “Sol Ring, mana crypt, Gaea’s Cradle, Seedborn, Nyxbloom, turn 5-you’re all dead?”
Nyxbloom is nowhere nearly cedh. Sol ring is a cmmon staple. the others are powerful, but i didn't see your point. Highpower edh is still casual, as well as cedh.
Holy cow I had Joe and Lynch on my show a couple weeks ago and that Samut deck S L A P P E D the whole damn table. Its so so strong. I knew it was trouble the second he played that Somberwold Sage. Great game y'all! And sick alter sleeve!
I came here because I have a strong personal interest in Wanderer, Tergrid, and Nethroi... but fuck off with those losers, because Samut looked fuckin' SICK there.
Joe's deck is simple: Put in every staple for Naya creatures and win. It feels like a more tedious version of a xenagos cedh deck with more math steps.
Generalny problem is that in Level 8 power ther are to many power diffrent ... When you go to Level 9-10 we are calling it cEDH - that means, you need to have all "fast" and "cheep-free" responses... If you dont have that its not CEDH (free counter spells, 1 mana instant remuavl etc.)... on other hand, if you play yours deck super optimiazed like we had here with cEDH style just no fast interaction ( so its not cEDH) it will destory all Level 6-7 and even lower Level 8 super fast with zero chance to win for enemy ;) It will even looks even mower Power Level then cEDH becosoe ther will be not slots for interaction cards - just all main game-plan cards ;) This is why for example Elves are cosider super good deck for many player. Ther are 100% not cEDH - like hell no - you cannot make pure Elves cEDH ( you can make creature deck with a lot elves in it - still it will be not pure Elves deck). If you woudl takes yours super optimazed Elf-Ball deck to Level 6-7 tables, it will feel liek yours deck is 5 power level abov others... you will kill all in turn 5-6 , with 20 creatures 10/10 or more power... and its not HARD to do for proper Elf deck... but on cEDH all yours fast mana creatures / token generators / tutors etc. will just not resolve and you will do NOTHING... This is problem for loong time... i think we need 12 Levels to describe power, and 11 and 12 shoud be cEDH. Then this deck would be 9-10, and Tegrid would be 8, and others would be 7 ;) ps. In this game, we sow ZERO mass remuval - what is like most importent interaction for level 6-8 tables... 1 good board Wipe would change this game hard ;)
Without spurring any hatred towards the episode (which I think was well done; as well done as you could get with Tergrid over webcam shenanigans) I think it showcased the disparity between what's considered "casual" versus "optimized" versus whatever terminology you want to use. Several of my fellow players have hotly debated what's low-power, mid-power, etc. over Discord servers during the pandemic and finding that balance has proven difficult. Is it the combos, the tutors, the countermagic, the mana ramp; at what point is your deck too good for "casual" and solidify itself solidly in the more competitive arena? There was a distinct power difference in the decks at play in the episode, and I'm just curious what people think. Interesting game to watch.
I think the problem with this video is, when you play cedh and everything is allowed, you all are somewhat equally or close to equally powered, but here, there is no arguing that the decks were unbalanced so made it less fun
just copped the food chain wins games hoodie, i love you guys content! decks weren't super even but this was a good ass video, and it was fun to watch.
its not played per say but actually its the same effect on a creature and tapping for more mana under the condition of ferocious (have a creature with power 4 or greater in play)
You already seen most of the essential and broken stuff in the deck from the video. Also if you follow the channel you can see the deck in action in episode 2 fore more reference.
It’s not much of a paywall. 2 bucks on their Patreon for a month will get you the deck list. I signed up because I think it’s a great channel with potential. The way they edit their videos makes them really easy to follow and fun to watch
It was fun to watch, though, Joe for example was playing the same deck he played on an "I HATE YOUR DECK", which that series is intended to show how powerful/absurd you can make decks (without making them cedh), so its confusing for him to then play that same deck in a "casual" listed video. No hate to him or his deck, it was wonderful to watch, but the disparity between it and Dylan's/Cameron's decks was a bit off-putting. Loved the alter sleeves btw!
Yes, but also, played against other decks at the same level of optimization. Otherwise it is too much for table balance and doesn't make games very fun imo. Even when I play a list that's really strong, it doesn't feel good to stomp a table that had no chance of coming back...
Thanks for having us on the show!!! You two are awesome. We definitely have to come back. I’m working on a CEDH deck. Once I get back from my work trip in 4 weeks. Love to game with you again. Appreciate you ya’ll.
All this talk of "casual" vs "competitive"... the C in cEDH is for the win cons, not the enablers. Fast mana has existed since WAAAAAYYYY before cEDH was a thing.
I love the comments on this one. Of the decks, each had a similar average CMC, with Wanderer being a little higher, though off-set a bit by cascading. Tergrid was playing against 3 "good stuff" decks. That is literally the dream scenario of getting grossly strong stuff for one mass discard spell. Samut had a T2 lurking predators with no tutoring. Nobody could answer it and it really snowballed. Cam and Dylan kinda got shafted while behind behind and then mass discarded by Tergrid who trying to get back to a level playing field, but sometimes that is how it goes. That all being said, I DO think these decks would be considered casual. It's that IHYD brought 8's and PTW brought 6-6.5's. Definitely both on the casual level, but PTW brought a little under what the other two were doing. IHYD brought high power, PTW brought "I think this is super sweet and didn't make many cuts due to pricing".
It was so funny to watch them freak out about an enchantment I put into the first EDH I ever built. I eventually had to take it out because it became a removal magnet, lol.
A textbook case stuy of the variance of the phrase "casual" edh. Would be interesting to see a more typical pair of Play to Win decks against these two, even if it's all over in flash. Then maybe another game trying to balance the power level more closely with Joe and Lynch's decks.
This video begs the question; what is casual? For me, cEDH decks are commander specific "win by turn 3" combo decks optimized for that purpose, not long drawn out games. Casual decks can be very powerful without being "turn 3" combo wins, it comes down to conversation, maybe an episode can be made out of this. TLDR; rule 0.
To boot, I play "casually competative" power lvl 8s and 9s, to which my friends always moan and groan. So, I built a budget deck with no mana rocks and no cards over $5.... karametra enchantress stax. The definitions of "casual" and "budget" are always subject to what kind of a player is building the deck.
Cedh is power level 9+ decks. Casual is everything else. All the cards that were played are legal in cedh/casual Commander since they are the same format, but different power levels.
He tapped for that white at 6:30 on his main phase and then used the white mana on end step. Mana disappears between each step, for future reference, guys. Good content, though!
I personally believe that Mana Crypt (or any card like it) isn't always cEDH. It really fits anywhere. What matters is what it's being used for. I think strong cards have a place in a casual deck, as long as your deck as a whole isn't pubstomping.
@@thetimebinder oh sorry I forgot. When your opponents are playing basics and you're whipping out duals and mana positive rocks, that's a fair fight. My bad you got me bro.
@@thetimebinder call their decks whatever you want, the match wasn't even minutely close in power level. Those guys were playing 8.5/9 and Dylan and Cameron were playing 6's (at least that's what it looked like).
@@GoodJewJew there was definitely a miscommunication of power level expectation. That doesn't make them playing cedh. They were absolutely playing high powered, which is still casual.
Funny how the most lopsided game on the channel was a "casual" game where one deck was playing 6 drops on turn 2. And everyone else was just watching a much more powerful deck stomp everyone. This is the problem with casual edh.
Well every game is unbalanced. Hence why theres a fight to become balanced. The other people didnt play any interaction. Theres tons of cheap interaction to answer enchantments. Krosan grip, return to nature, mortify, i mean we can go on. And they had green and blue which are the best for answering the cards that were the most impactful
@@drazi3356 the problem isnt price of cards but what is the definition of casual? Are we playing to win or social fun game. Yeah, Dylan and Cam underestimated what casual is and low balled it a bunch but that again is the issue with casual. If you play as efficient as possible with all responses, you are just playing fringe cEDH...
Have a question for pay to win. I see you guys usually play cEDH. Wouldn't a cEDH deck be more appropriate/even in this match? Or is it just high power edh on "I hate your deck" side? (and using banned cards..)
Gotta love those casual decks with mana crypts and gaea’s cradle 😂
Gaea's cradle is a casual magic card. It's in, like, all of 3 cedh decks?
@@Dracomandriuthus ^ its a bad card when you dont play dudes to win
@@SeriosSkies92 Yeah.
I find it funny when people play crypt in casual
The price of a card doesn't make it competitive.
cEDH player: “what do you mean I discard my hand and don’t draw? No one has a hullbreacher out...”
Yall gotta compare deck lists before playing, these decks did not feel equal. Much love bois
bump
It's not about power level. I also play Samut and it can go crazy, don't get me wrong. But if he didn't have the turn 2 lurking predators, and selvala to refill his hand, the game would go to the tergrid deck without any doubt. He had a bomb and noone had an answer. It snowballed and this was expected. Then again I wouldn't say mana crypt is a casual card, but tergrid player had one as well.
@@samoumek801 So are you saying that all 4 decks at the table were a good match for each other? In their other casual videos they have an outline on what is and isnt allowed to be in the 99. The guests did not follow those rules and it seems like Cam and Dylan did. Dyaln is running bounce lands and Joe played a Gaes Cradle. This just looked like a recorded pub stomp.
@@gundamassassin241 yeah true. I only saw that tergrid player also demonic tutored for mana crypt so it seemed fair since Joe's deck pretty much plays mana dorks and chonky bois and not much else. And I didn't see much of play to win decks so it might be that their decks were far more casual.
You guys also got to remember that the play to win guys also got their hand destroyed
You made it Joe: we hate your deck
Ayyyyy!!! LOL!
@@blackneto_ I want the deck list 😭😭😭
@@blackneto_ love you. Post more magic vids
@@DUES_EX We are starting a deck tech in the month of April for our Patreon members! I'll keep you posted. In the meantime if you can't wait for another episode I did just start a TikTok for MTG entertainment XD
@@BigMosh you have seen the whole deck already ;p at two different appearances if you watched the other recording at the I hate your deck channel.
joe's setup makes it look like he about to start a DnD campaign loloolll
I DM as well haha! I have a webcam now so no more janky set up yay!!!
@@goldilock4199 I don't mind at all! Currently trying to run d20 Modern game with a Resident Evil theme for the campaign!
@@blackneto_ cant get to your decklist as link takes you to patreon :(
Cam and Dylan next time people want to play casual don't get bamboozled
Looks like my definition of "Casual EDH" is vastly different from other people
That has always been the problem with "casual" EDH, yes. That's not to throw shade either, I enjoy the casual spectrum more than cEDH. But it's just that, a spectrum, and thus it takes a lot more effort and understanding to properly construct your pods.
There's no real casual edh unless more bans/rules are applied in your playgroup.
Very "casual" optimized decks will usually trample over casual ones.
Yeah casual is broad so decks can be at different power levels
Yeah, same here lol
The title says "highpowered gameplay" So it's not ment to be casual.
For the love of playing EDH on webcam and having fun while at it: leave your Tergrid decks on the shelf!
I bet there's a lot of editing cuts out because of Tergrid ability: "what you got there? (makes token with marker) what else? (makes token with marker) anything else? (makes another token with marker).
Love you guys
This was my huge negative from the video. was just like "Tergrid? when you know youre strictly playing on cam?"
Yeah, the power discrepancy was kind of a turn-off
Not getting into the whole "cedh vs casual" debate, but the power levels here were definitely not the same so I wonder, Cam & Dylan - do you guys have decks that aren't cedh but are optimized, ultra high power? A rematch with some equal footing would be enjoyable to watch. Love the channel fellas, keep up the excellent work!
bump
I just started watching the video and both of the players from I hate your deck have mana crypts in play and play to win does not...can you specify why you think their decks are higher power level?
Yes please! That was just too ridicolous. But I want to see how this decks performs on same power level
can someone explain to me what casual and cedh or edh means no one has been able to answer me that
@@ExTrEmEStOrW casual is just a fun game night with friends. edh is the game they are playing. cedh is a sub-group of the game they are playing, the highest tier of play,
Awesome match with IHYD! Showing how nice it's to have a rule zero conversation.
That was a completely fair and reasonable match of magic.
The line between cEDH and fringe cEDH is thinner than people think. Great stuff as always homies!
I think the only real takeaway from this game is that casual Commander decks don't pack enough interaction and get exploited for it by intense value engines. This game would have looked pretty different if Lurking Predators had been answered immediately, having Tergrid play Kingmaker on accident didn't help either. This may have been cEDH speed, but the way it all played out is pretty indicative of why casual Commander has so many "problems"
yeah its the aimlessness while just flashing and splashing with value that gets me.
I have always wondered why none has board removal. Most ofnthese states are pretty easy to break (excepr for fucking blue shennegians).
As an yugioh and magic player, i find the tendency to just "ignore" removal in any maggic format weird (amongst casuals), every yugioh casual knows tha they need some form of negate/removal, less so magic.
I love the fact that the cEDH channel has a better understanding of a high power casual deck rather than the "casual" players. I also laughed so hard on your reactions to the casual cards you have never seen before. Keep up the good work guys, you post the cEDH content but you are pretty good casual players too. :D
This is why CEDH is way more balanced than casual EDH. Even if you think you have balanced decks and play high power, you end up with big power gaps between decks.
Thats why you ban cards to make casual EDH balanced. Ban mana positive manarocks for example. An honest and true assessment of the powerlevel of your casual deck also helps. Talking about the power of the decks before the games also makes the games more enjoyable.
@@Schatten941 I don't think banning is the answer. Talking with your playgroup is, but it is extremely hard to asses power level, a good exemple of that would be all that's happening on the PlayEDH discord server and despise all their efforts, there are still a lot of complains about power level, except in the cedh bracket.
@@Lukaszgbur I just think cEDH and edh should be 2 different games.
Talking doesn't seem to work, as Aneta just assumed anything was go. Which is what usually happens if playing outside your play group.
Also he played biorhythm, which is banned.
@@ncuco He did NOT have Biorhythm. He had Shaman of Forgotten Ways, which when it Formidables, mimics the effect of Biorhythm.
Yeah if you're all at maximum power then you're all at equality
Only issue is really good commander devks are fuckin expensive
the difference between power level made this content a bit unenjoyable. Clearly a discussion on what level everyone else is would have helped a lot
Agreed
Good game, was fun to watch, though, a couple things. There was certainly a power difference between I HATE YOUR DECK & PLAY TO WIN. Bringing mana crypt + Tergrid isnt exactly casual (im fine with the power-level, but it was superior to what the others were playing). Also, "theft" decks like Tergrid are not very fun to watch when they are webcam games like this because its hard to follow what exactly they steal as the white blank cards are not the easiest to read.
Why not? Specific cards (like mana crypt) Don't make a deck cedh.
And the video's title says "high-power". So it's ok
@@pefp2008 Right, mana crypt itself doesnt necessarily make it cedh, but it does amp the power considerably. In the video, it was stated that it was a "casual" game, while casual means many different things to different people, generally $100 cards, and turn 4 wins, arent a part of that.
Ah sweet! I love their channel and now we get to see them on play to win, thanks for the awesome content guys
I love your enthusasim for seeing things youve never seen before as they crush you.
Joes decks always seem high powered. He likes to let people watch him play magic lol
Agree
I’ve seen his Samut twice and both times it ripped the entire table to shreds what you gonna do
I don't see the lie lol. I do have other decks for every power level too. I just love playing edh with the homies :)
@@blackneto_ id love to see a video on your deck building process
@@johnayala771 I was thinking of doing something like that on ClubHouse soon! Good to know that there's a want for that kind of content!!!
Thank you for working with me on these sleeves!
Personally, I don’t think card quality and price determines whether a card is casual or not, but rather how quickly a deck can consistently win. Like in game knights over at command zone, those decks are absolutely casual, but they use crypt and duals
card cuallity is what defines competitive building mindset. Optimization s everything.
Bloodpod dont win fast, but it still considered competitive. I wil never bring my bloodpod in to a casual eviroment, but if people are playing things like mana crypt, craddle, fw or dt... i will do it to get in with equal foot.
Don't forget they also limit the amount of interaction in their games. It's a rare game where they play 6 or more removal spells in a video nowadays.
Mtg mudstah also play these cards and are very casual as well. It's about rule 0 I guess. They do reduce the amount of infinite combos
Joe did "odds are safe" for crypt and i can't get past that.. it just feels wrong to me lol
Ah yes, the good old "two players do not have gas and the other two have their decks go BRRRRR" casual experience
T_T
The bad part is, since this is casual, the pain is looooong.
Honestly yes, just kill me fast and let's play another game. Nobody wants to watch you solitaire for 20 minutes.
I am impressed by how gracious you guys were. I would've likely been salty af, lol
I suppose bringing mana crypt to a more casual game is definitely 'playing to win'
Don’t forget Cradle
Don't forget survival of the fittest
Don't forget using cards that are banned 🙄 (biorhythm)
@@ncuco Although biorhythm is banned, Shaman of Forgotten Ways is commander legal
@@bustedheadphones couldn't see card sorry. Just heard biorhythm
Cam - Is mana crypt casual?
Also cam: has HERMIT DRUID in his deck
Also revealed a basic land with the same hermit druid proving it doesn't have the hermit druid combo
so coming back to this video after the pair splitting up a couple of days ago. makes it all clear.
Holly shit! What a crazy game! Definitely adds to your podcast convo about casual, and competitive being the same format ultimately. Great stuff guys! Between this game, and his command zone appearance, Joe is clearly a force to be reckoned with!!
When I started playing EDH at our LGS, Joe has stomping folks. Probably why our show is called I Hate Your Deck.
@@michaeldlynch Nice!! That definitely sounds plausible hahahaha
Was that a turn 3 Lurking Predators? That's crazy.
I mean, Gaea's and Mana Crypt are very high-power cards, but individual powerful cards do not make a deck competitive.
This
I agree with you. It's more like certain play lines are competitive. Thassa + tainted pact, turbo ad naus lists, things of that sort IMO
The “If you’re not playing UBRx Ad Nauseum, you aren’t playing cEDH” people are exactly the ones I avoid. It’s a philosophy, not a decklist. Go enjoy your pubstomping somewhere else pls
@@paulmcclain642 I agree with you, Paul, it is a philosophy not a decklist. Thank you for further adding to my point.
@@paulmcclain642 Don't wrap cEDH players, even the douchebags, in with the pubstompers. Those people are just trash and they exist in both cEDH and regular EDH.
This is my favorite mtg channel to watch. With that said, there was quite a difference in power. It did make this video a bit unenjoyable at some points. It seemed like a pub stomp
Cam and Dylan: “We are going to play some CASUAL today should be fun”
Joe: “Sol Ring, mana crypt, Gaea’s Cradle, Seedborn, Nyxbloom, turn 5-you’re all dead?”
Nyxbloom is nowhere nearly cedh. Sol ring is a cmmon staple. the others are powerful, but i didn't see your point.
Highpower edh is still casual, as well as cedh.
Anything not cedh is casual. These were not cedh decks. They were high powered casual decks.
Are you telling me sol ring isn't a casual card now... better tell wizards that
Holy cow I had Joe and Lynch on my show a couple weeks ago and that Samut deck S L A P P E D the whole damn table. Its so so strong. I knew it was trouble the second he played that Somberwold Sage. Great game y'all! And sick alter sleeve!
This was a super fun and highly entertaining video! Thanks so much! Also, love your reactions to non-cedh, yet high powered decks. Haha!
I came here because I have a strong personal interest in Wanderer, Tergrid, and Nethroi... but fuck off with those losers, because Samut looked fuckin' SICK there.
Joe your camera angle is killing me! Oh, hi Mark.
PLAY TO WIN is by far the best and most entertaining channel on TH-cam for mtg.
Lurking predators was a big thing years ago in Roon decks! Like 2014? Cool card when your deck is about etb effects!
Joe's deck is simple: Put in every staple for Naya creatures and win.
It feels like a more tedious version of a xenagos cedh deck with more math steps.
To be fair, these are perfectly normal High Powered decks in the lvl 8 range. I play against this stuff all the time. Nothing here is cedh.
You know.
Generalny problem is that in Level 8 power ther are to many power diffrent ... When you go to Level 9-10 we are calling it cEDH - that means, you need to have all "fast" and "cheep-free" responses... If you dont have that its not CEDH (free counter spells, 1 mana instant remuavl etc.)... on other hand, if you play yours deck super optimiazed like we had here with cEDH style just no fast interaction ( so its not cEDH) it will destory all Level 6-7 and even lower Level 8 super fast with zero chance to win for enemy ;) It will even looks even mower Power Level then cEDH becosoe ther will be not slots for interaction cards - just all main game-plan cards ;)
This is why for example Elves are cosider super good deck for many player. Ther are 100% not cEDH - like hell no - you cannot make pure Elves cEDH ( you can make creature deck with a lot elves in it - still it will be not pure Elves deck). If you woudl takes yours super optimazed Elf-Ball deck to Level 6-7 tables, it will feel liek yours deck is 5 power level abov others... you will kill all in turn 5-6 , with 20 creatures 10/10 or more power... and its not HARD to do for proper Elf deck... but on cEDH all yours fast mana creatures / token generators / tutors etc. will just not resolve and you will do NOTHING...
This is problem for loong time... i think we need 12 Levels to describe power, and 11 and 12 shoud be cEDH. Then this deck would be 9-10, and Tegrid would be 8, and others would be 7 ;)
ps. In this game, we sow ZERO mass remuval - what is like most importent interaction for level 6-8 tables... 1 good board Wipe would change this game hard ;)
Without spurring any hatred towards the episode (which I think was well done; as well done as you could get with Tergrid over webcam shenanigans) I think it showcased the disparity between what's considered "casual" versus "optimized" versus whatever terminology you want to use. Several of my fellow players have hotly debated what's low-power, mid-power, etc. over Discord servers during the pandemic and finding that balance has proven difficult. Is it the combos, the tutors, the countermagic, the mana ramp; at what point is your deck too good for "casual" and solidify itself solidly in the more competitive arena?
There was a distinct power difference in the decks at play in the episode, and I'm just curious what people think. Interesting game to watch.
Oh so glad you guys did a collaboration
I think the problem with this video is, when you play cedh and everything is allowed, you all are somewhat equally or close to equally powered, but here, there is no arguing that the decks were unbalanced so made it less fun
Sigh. It's hard to take that opener in good faith after all of the truth came tumbling out recently.
Mad love for Lynch though.
“Casual” with gaea cradle?
Cradle is casual too, just high power of casual. Putting cradle in your deck doesn’t make it cEDH.
@@quinnquitars I was going along with a joke
@@AnticlimacticPangolin my bad 🤦♂️
Yes. Gaea's Cradle is a legal card in Commander.
@@thetimebinder yea, I was going along with a joke
More like I Hate Your Camera Angle
I don't even like those sleeve but I want them because I love you guys
just copped the food chain wins games hoodie, i love you guys content! decks weren't super even but this was a good ass video, and it was fun to watch.
Isnt Biorythm Banned in commander, its played on the very last turn at the end.
its not played per say but actually its the same effect on a creature and tapping for more mana under the condition of ferocious (have a creature with power 4 or greater in play)
But he says biorhythm?
@@ncuco As a shortcut for the text of the effect of the creature.
Well I found you guys through I Hate Your Deck, I watched a couple of episode, pretty entertaining. Keep it up.
I've never seen a samut deck like Joe's. Unfortunately I can't look for inspiration because of the stupid pay wall for deck lists
You already seen most of the essential and broken stuff in the deck from the video. Also if you follow the channel you can see the deck in action in episode 2 fore more reference.
It’s not much of a paywall. 2 bucks on their Patreon for a month will get you the deck list. I signed up because I think it’s a great channel with potential. The way they edit their videos makes them really easy to follow and fun to watch
I was baffled, then after the end I rechecked the commanders and realized samut has white in its colour identity
Anyone else think that joe could’ve put more effort into his setup so it’s not crooked as hell
It was fun to watch, though, Joe for example was playing the same deck he played on an "I HATE YOUR DECK", which that series is intended to show how powerful/absurd you can make decks (without making them cedh), so its confusing for him to then play that same deck in a "casual" listed video. No hate to him or his deck, it was wonderful to watch, but the disparity between it and Dylan's/Cameron's decks was a bit off-putting. Loved the alter sleeves btw!
"Are we on turn FOUR?!" :D
That was funny.
You should meme it.
Oh god yes! Custom sleeves for my favorite channel!!!
This is like my worst nightmare when someone says they’re bringing out their “casual” deck.
You don't have the Samut deck list linked in the description, it links to Patreon... Unless that's on purpose?
Optimized EDH like Joe’s deck is my favorite level of play.
Yes, but also, played against other decks at the same level of optimization. Otherwise it is too much for table balance and doesn't make games very fun imo. Even when I play a list that's really strong, it doesn't feel good to stomp a table that had no chance of coming back...
I really want to see Tergrid actually work. Everytime I've seen Lynch play it, he's been countered. These decks look fun to pilot.
If you join our IHYD Patreon bonus episode 2 that is an exclusive you can see Tergrid pop off!!!!
you got to see Tergrid out while a Awaken the erstwhile was cast that is literally best scenario imo
Dylan: THIS IS A CARD?!
Seeing cEDH players reactions to busted casual cards is hilarious. Lurking Predators is great.
There are many levels of "casual" so you'll have to be more specific
There are 8 different levels of casual to be exact.
@@thetimebinder I'd say it's more of a spectrum with certain landmarks
Ok I'm pretty sure that he casted fraying omnipotence and they forgot to sacrifice creatures or did I miss something
This was basically episode 2 of I Hate Your Deck
Thanks for having us on the show!!! You two are awesome. We definitely have to come back. I’m working on a CEDH deck. Once I get back from my work trip in 4 weeks. Love to game with you again. Appreciate you ya’ll.
Thanks for coming on! We had a blast. We’d be happy to play y’all again once you’re ready for some cEDH!
Stoked to learn the ways of cEDH!
Love the high power casual. This is my way to play
I love the "We're playing casual" and the title says High Power HAHAHA
that sol ring alter is godly
True
That was crazy! Didn't expect that 😳
All this talk of "casual" vs "competitive"... the C in cEDH is for the win cons, not the enablers. Fast mana has existed since WAAAAAYYYY before cEDH was a thing.
I love the comments on this one. Of the decks, each had a similar average CMC, with Wanderer being a little higher, though off-set a bit by cascading.
Tergrid was playing against 3 "good stuff" decks. That is literally the dream scenario of getting grossly strong stuff for one mass discard spell.
Samut had a T2 lurking predators with no tutoring. Nobody could answer it and it really snowballed.
Cam and Dylan kinda got shafted while behind behind and then mass discarded by Tergrid who trying to get back to a level playing field, but sometimes that is how it goes.
That all being said, I DO think these decks would be considered casual. It's that IHYD brought 8's and PTW brought 6-6.5's. Definitely both on the casual level, but PTW brought a little under what the other two were doing. IHYD brought high power, PTW brought "I think this is super sweet and didn't make many cuts due to pricing".
the word Pub Stomp comes to mind
Joes deck is badass but I think Michael takes the cake of "I hate your deck". Those sol ring alters will look GREAT in my decks!
I hope this is a bridge for you guys to get together with the command zone. Maybe you two could be on for a special competitive edition.
lmfao joe played the exact same samut deck on their cedh show, clearly didnt get the casual memo
Their show isnt cedh
Y’all need a run back!!!
Cam & Dylan... just make some fire optimized decks!
We’d love to play with them again.
Was just thinking abt when the next casual play to win episode would come out... and here it is
i run lurking predators in a high powered chulane deck, it's awesome! nice to see the card get some love this episode
It was so funny to watch them freak out about an enchantment I put into the first EDH I ever built. I eventually had to take it out because it became a removal magnet, lol.
A textbook case stuy of the variance of the phrase "casual" edh. Would be interesting to see a more typical pair of Play to Win decks against these two, even if it's all over in flash. Then maybe another game trying to balance the power level more closely with Joe and Lynch's decks.
I've been watching Joe since before it was competitive.
This reminds me of my buddy. His “jank” deck runs all the zero cost counter spells.
This is kinda funny. I love how the cEDH players thought casual wouldn’t be that bad.
This is the first Nethroi deck I’ve ever seen played apart from my own!
Ok, are you guys ready for our casual game of commander? First I’ll play my 150 dollar mana rock and my 1000 dollar land... why are you glaring at me?
This video begs the question; what is casual?
For me, cEDH decks are commander specific "win by turn 3" combo decks optimized for that purpose, not long drawn out games.
Casual decks can be very powerful without being "turn 3" combo wins, it comes down to conversation, maybe an episode can be made out of this.
TLDR; rule 0.
To boot, I play "casually competative" power lvl 8s and 9s, to which my friends always moan and groan. So, I built a budget deck with no mana rocks and no cards over $5.... karametra enchantress stax.
The definitions of "casual" and "budget" are always subject to what kind of a player is building the deck.
Cedh is power level 9+ decks. Casual is everything else. All the cards that were played are legal in cedh/casual Commander since they are the same format, but different power levels.
He tapped for that white at 6:30 on his main phase and then used the white mana on end step. Mana disappears between each step, for future reference, guys. Good content, though!
Why did yall just watch these 2 play there own little game? 🤣
I personally believe that Mana Crypt (or any card like it) isn't always cEDH. It really fits anywhere. What matters is what it's being used for. I think strong cards have a place in a casual deck, as long as your deck as a whole isn't pubstomping.
good god that samut deck is absolutely insane
Dylan and Cameron were playing edh and the other guys were playin cEDH/high power. Wasnt fair. Play to win was handicapped.
These were not cedh decks. They were high powered decks.
@@thetimebinder oh sorry I forgot. When your opponents are playing basics and you're whipping out duals and mana positive rocks, that's a fair fight. My bad you got me bro.
@@thetimebinder call their decks whatever you want, the match wasn't even minutely close in power level. Those guys were playing 8.5/9 and Dylan and Cameron were playing 6's (at least that's what it looked like).
@@GoodJewJew there was definitely a miscommunication of power level expectation. That doesn't make them playing cedh. They were absolutely playing high powered, which is still casual.
@@thetimebinder did you even read the OP? Read it again
Honestly... This was kinda boring, sorry guys.
Funny how the most lopsided game on the channel was a "casual" game where one deck was playing 6 drops on turn 2. And everyone else was just watching a much more powerful deck stomp everyone. This is the problem with casual edh.
I feel you, play both cEDH and casual EDH. Guess which has more level of saltiness
Well every game is unbalanced. Hence why theres a fight to become balanced. The other people didnt play any interaction. Theres tons of cheap interaction to answer enchantments. Krosan grip, return to nature, mortify, i mean we can go on. And they had green and blue which are the best for answering the cards that were the most impactful
@@drazi3356 the problem isnt price of cards but what is the definition of casual? Are we playing to win or social fun game. Yeah, Dylan and Cam underestimated what casual is and low balled it a bunch but that again is the issue with casual. If you play as efficient as possible with all responses, you are just playing fringe cEDH...
@@Brainstorm_brews you can still have casual fun and still remove big problems. Like dont let doubling season sit. Its just unfair at that point
Have a question for pay to win. I see you guys usually play cEDH. Wouldn't a cEDH deck be more appropriate/even in this match? Or is it just high power edh on "I hate your deck" side? (and using banned cards..)
I hate the angle joe is using, I can barely tell what’s on his board
He’s updated it since this recording lol.
if I ever have the opportunity to play with you guys, I promise my camera angle won’t be all crooked like Joe’s
I wish that i could see Joe's deck list :( like the other decks