I've been doing this for 45 years as a ham and 35 years as a professional, and this is the 1st time I have ever seen someone insulate antennas from the tower. WOW. de K1TA.
Well I won't be doing that again! LOL It was only that specific antenna that was designed for a ground plane, but they said if you didn't have a ground plane to insulate it like this. Did NOT work very well! :)
Kapper, I really hate to pee in someone's Corn Flakes, especially in a public forum. However, as someone who has thousands of hours installing towers and antennas for Amateurs and some commercial work I feel obligated to speak up. IMO, your installation is not safe. Rohn publishes a very compressive catalog/manual for their tower products. This document was prepared by licensed engineers, to protect not only Rohn, but the installer and end user. To those watching this video, I implore you to do your research and follow the manufacturers instructions when installing towers. The life you save may be your own!
No offense intended Joe but where did you get the idea that vertical antennas are supposed to be insulated from the mast? That top antenna you are installing is a trap-vertical. It is basically a "ground plane" antenna. It is designed to be mounted at ground level (at a specific distance from the ground) and uses the ground as radials. When mounted in the air it "should" have wire radials for best performance. But regardless, the metal mount is designed to be attached to metal that goes to ground. The same goes for ANY antenna attached to a metal structure. It is SUPPOSED to be grounded at the mount. With a totally floating antenna up there you'll be gathering lightning energy from storms hundreds of miles away. :-) It is also a good idea to have ground rods at the base of the tower with large gauge wire coupling the rods to the tower base. I sunk two large copper ground rods into my concrete when I poured it and then coupled to the tower with huge 1-inch wide copper braided straps. By the way, how are you going to "tune" that antenna before lifting the tower up? With a trap vertical you need to tune each band so the SWR is not through the roof (which as you know will reflect all your transmitter power BACK to the transmitter instead of to the load, i.e. the antenna).
Well, the idea came from another ham, and it was this; That that paint/galvanizing could prevent a good ground contact, so we were going to ground the antennas directly with grounding strap. Same principle, just different method. But in re-assessing, I think I'm going to take those insulators off and ground to the pipe direct. I'll take a grinder to it where the antenna's connect. I think part of the other theory was that if One antenna got hit, that it could run down the grounding strap and potential save the other 2 antennas. Seems very plausible to me. So, that was the thinking and theory. but after seeing the little bit of slack difference with the pvc, I'm going to just mount to the steel mast. thanks, hope that helps. It is always a work in progress!!!
@@kapperoutdoors You would probably be better off making a grounding strap, such as a loop or Eye to wire on both ends, from antenna to pipe... and use a small self tapping screw into the pipe. Then cover it with paint to stop corrosion. Then at base, do the same thing to your ground rod. I have done that on my pipe and it grounded them well.
The weight of the mast poles is not the issue. It is the wind cross section. The issue with ANYTHING that sticks out the top of the tower is wind load square-feet. Even a 35 foot self-supported Rohn 25G only has an allowable wind load of 3.6 sq-ft for 70MPH wind survival (no ice). Rough calculations show that you have around 16 total feet of ~2" OD mast sections. The mast sections themselves equates to roughly 1.2 sq-ft of wind load not counting the elbows and unions. That is almost 1/2 the total allowable wind load for a 35 foot self-supporting tower. Increase the height to 40-feet and the total allowable wind load is reduced to only 1.5 sq-ft.
EOSJOE and Kapper my concern was the tapcon bolts pulling out that were used to support the tower base. Kapper, Joe May be an engineer, I never received a reply from you regarding the tapcon bolts. Like you I’m not a golden child of you tube I just want you to win. I hope you researched the correct bolt, win baby win!!!
same question i have the vertical antenna designed to be bolted to a mast i have only one antenna that needs a insulator that my 2 meter 440 copper antenna and wire dipole will be pulleys or ropes
I really suggest that anyone building a tower do some research first. Rohn has great technical details on their towers. Don’t freelance a design and certainly be mindful that making a video does not one an expert.
Never claimed to be an expert. I just enjoy challenges and trying out new things. This thing has survived more wind storms and near tornado winds than I even thought it would. Thanks
This may be something that you've already considered although it seems the lengths of your horizontal mast sections were arbitrary. There are specific guidelines as to how far away from the tower a vertical antenna should be so as to not effect the radiation pattern. It's not simply a matter of farther is better. I think you need to be at certain multiples of the wavelength of the antenna. Example... at 1/4 wavelength away you have close to an omni-directional pattern (with a slight null towards the tower) but if you get to 1/2 wavelength then the pattern becomes bi-directional.
I'm not overly concerned about this. I am not confident to take those out any farther, and this is the only way to mount multiple antennas, regardless of whether I used a rohn t-pipe or made my own. It will be what It is. That is also why I offset my 'T' if you will to at least give a little more separation vertically to those outer antenna.
yes sir, for sure! I have a plan in mind and it includes that! lol. Wouldn't that suck if I missed something after we got it raised!? Thanks man, stay tuned :)
The pipe fittings you used can crack and fail over time , i would use bends with braces welded for strength and use steel without galvanized coatings , wait until after welding, and brush on etching primer then paint
Joe,..when you are welding galvanized pipe ( metal ) you should have use the grinder to grind away the zinc,..that smoke is very nasty stuff and you should drink plenty of milk while welding this to offset the poison smoke you may breathe in. Check this out if you wish, but that is nasty stuff , that smoke from welding on zinc/galvanizing can really do you harm.
@@louielopez1638 I don't really care if he has cookies with it, Just as long as he drinks lots of milk to help neutralize the effects of that zinc oxide that may get into his blood.
I agree with EOSJOE, your trap vertical requires ground radials, not just a grounded mount. The swr will be great, but it won't radiate well at all. Better off to ground mount the trap vertical and run radials AS WELL as a good ground. If not you are going to have a high radiation angle. This is how verticals get a bad name, equally poor in all directions etc. You would be much better served with a dipole or vee. If you only want 10 meters or something get a ground plane vertical or convert an 11 meter antenna. I am a low band dx'er and use ground mounted verticals with 64 radials each. Very low radiation angle. Google it. 73
Well, we'll see how it goes. There are 2 sets of radials on the 5 band antenna, (short ones of course, aluminum) and I have the antenna manual, so I'll look again. This will be a work in progress as time goes on. I do plan on making a couple of dipoles, strung up in the trees as well. It is still a learning curve, but so much 'theory' on antennas!
Kapper .... I worked as a mechanical designed and the items that got welded in our indoor model shop never were allowed to be galvanized. Joe you should learn some better work habits or in the long run you will pay a price. Think twice before you decide to do a job that is not something you are good at or do for a living. The price you would pay the man that does it for a living is cheap when you add up the bad lungs, poor heart, bad back, price you pay for parts and tools and it may not works as well as the one you buy and, then it comes down of the roof of the house. It is hard to admit defeat when doing a project BUT .... Now I will go screw something up myself. Hope the back is well cared for and you do great. I will keep you in my prayers.
Dude you are using to much on the weld that you made on that cross member. And use a fan to blow the fumes away from when welding galvanized metal since you do not have an evac system.
I've been doing this for 45 years as a ham and 35 years as a professional, and this is the 1st time I have ever seen someone insulate antennas from the tower. WOW. de K1TA.
Well I won't be doing that again! LOL It was only that specific antenna that was designed for a ground plane, but they said if you didn't have a ground plane to insulate it like this. Did NOT work very well! :)
Kapper, I really hate to pee in someone's Corn Flakes, especially in a public forum. However, as someone who has thousands of hours installing towers and antennas for Amateurs and some commercial work I feel obligated to speak up. IMO, your installation is not safe. Rohn publishes a very compressive catalog/manual for their tower products. This document was prepared by licensed engineers, to protect not only Rohn, but the installer and end user. To those watching this video, I implore you to do your research and follow the manufacturers instructions when installing towers. The life you save may be your own!
ah hell just dog a 2 foots holes and slam that puppy up
No offense intended Joe but where did you get the idea that vertical antennas are supposed to be insulated from the mast? That top antenna you are installing is a trap-vertical. It is basically a "ground plane" antenna. It is designed to be mounted at ground level (at a specific distance from the ground) and uses the ground as radials. When mounted in the air it "should" have wire radials for best performance. But regardless, the metal mount is designed to be attached to metal that goes to ground. The same goes for ANY antenna attached to a metal structure. It is SUPPOSED to be grounded at the mount. With a totally floating antenna up there you'll be gathering lightning energy from storms hundreds of miles away. :-) It is also a good idea to have ground rods at the base of the tower with large gauge wire coupling the rods to the tower base. I sunk two large copper ground rods into my concrete when I poured it and then coupled to the tower with huge 1-inch wide copper braided straps. By the way, how are you going to "tune" that antenna before lifting the tower up? With a trap vertical you need to tune each band so the SWR is not through the roof (which as you know will reflect all your transmitter power BACK to the transmitter instead of to the load, i.e. the antenna).
Well, the idea came from another ham, and it was this; That that paint/galvanizing could prevent a good ground contact, so we were going to ground the antennas directly with grounding strap. Same principle, just different method. But in re-assessing, I think I'm going to take those insulators off and ground to the pipe direct. I'll take a grinder to it where the antenna's connect. I think part of the other theory was that if One antenna got hit, that it could run down the grounding strap and potential save the other 2 antennas. Seems very plausible to me. So, that was the thinking and theory. but after seeing the little bit of slack difference with the pvc, I'm going to just mount to the steel mast. thanks, hope that helps. It is always a work in progress!!!
100% agree that's exactly what i thoughts
@@kapperoutdoors You would probably be better off making a grounding strap, such as a loop or Eye to wire on both ends, from antenna to pipe... and use a small self tapping screw into the pipe. Then cover it with paint to stop corrosion. Then at base, do the same thing to your ground rod. I have done that on my pipe and it grounded them well.
The weight of the mast poles is not the issue. It is the wind cross section. The issue with ANYTHING that sticks out the top of the tower is wind load square-feet. Even a 35 foot self-supported Rohn 25G only has an allowable wind load of 3.6 sq-ft for 70MPH wind survival (no ice). Rough calculations show that you have around 16 total feet of ~2" OD mast sections. The mast sections themselves equates to roughly 1.2 sq-ft of wind load not counting the elbows and unions. That is almost 1/2 the total allowable wind load for a 35 foot self-supporting tower. Increase the height to 40-feet and the total allowable wind load is reduced to only 1.5 sq-ft.
EOSJOE and Kapper my concern was the tapcon bolts pulling out that were used to support the tower base. Kapper, Joe May be an engineer, I never received a reply from you regarding the tapcon bolts. Like you I’m not a golden child of you tube I just want you to win. I hope you researched the correct bolt, win baby win!!!
Nice work on the mast assembly Joe! Looks nice and sturdy!
Thanks. Well, we'll see how it holds in the first few wind storms! :)
same question i have the vertical antenna designed to be bolted to a mast i have only one antenna that needs a insulator that my 2 meter 440 copper antenna and wire dipole will be pulleys or ropes
Well I decided to remove the insulators instead of running a separate braided ground wire from each antenna.
I really suggest that anyone building a tower do some research first. Rohn has great technical details on their towers. Don’t freelance a design and certainly be mindful that making a video does not one an expert.
Never claimed to be an expert. I just enjoy challenges and trying out new things. This thing has survived more wind storms and near tornado winds than I even thought it would. Thanks
Project is looking good!
slowly but surely! thanks!
I don't know anything bout ham radio antennas but u certainly look as if u have crossed all the ts an dotted the i's 💪💪
Well, I try to be thorough... Sometimes it works, other times not so much! lol
This may be something that you've already considered although it seems the lengths of your horizontal mast sections were arbitrary. There are specific guidelines as to how far away from the tower a vertical antenna should be so as to not effect the radiation pattern. It's not simply a matter of farther is better. I think you need to be at certain multiples of the wavelength of the antenna. Example... at 1/4 wavelength away you have close to an omni-directional pattern (with a slight null towards the tower) but if you get to 1/2 wavelength then the pattern becomes bi-directional.
I'm not overly concerned about this. I am not confident to take those out any farther, and this is the only way to mount multiple antennas, regardless of whether I used a rohn t-pipe or made my own. It will be what It is. That is also why I offset my 'T' if you will to at least give a little more separation vertically to those outer antenna.
Don't forget to get your coax run down for each of the antenna's before you stand it up. Coming along nicely.
yes sir, for sure! I have a plan in mind and it includes that! lol. Wouldn't that suck if I missed something after we got it raised!? Thanks man, stay tuned :)
Hey Kapper! Hope u are doing well. What is the sump for in your shop?
Not doing too bad overall, thank you. It is a water pit where the water comes in at. Buried in a pit below the frost line.
The pipe fittings you used can crack and fail over time , i would use bends with braces welded for strength
and use steel without galvanized coatings , wait until after welding, and brush on etching primer then paint
Ya need to grind off the galvanized coating hun before you weld on it, otherwise it is very poisonous in a vapor form. Nice video. hugsss
Well, I was holding my breath and then stepped away as soon as I could from the cloud! :) Thanks, hope you stick around to see more stuff.
I am anxiously standing by...... Good luck with your surgery. I know nothing about antenna,s but don't they have to be rotated for tuning?
Not if it is an omni-direction vertical. Only a "directional" antenna (i.e. Yagi) needs to be pointed towards the signal source.
Joe,..when you are welding galvanized pipe ( metal ) you should have use the grinder to grind away the zinc,..that smoke is very nasty stuff and you should drink plenty of milk while welding this to offset the poison smoke you may breathe in.
Check this out if you wish, but that is nasty stuff , that smoke from welding on zinc/galvanizing can really do you harm.
Amen........like very toxic.
Don't forget the cookies too...👍🤣😆😁😀
@@louielopez1638 I don't really care if he has cookies with it, Just as long as he drinks lots of milk to help neutralize the effects of that zinc oxide that may get into his blood.
@@chetthejet3896 Yes sir, VERY toxic !
@@regsparkes6507 all in good humor. Breathing those fumes is hazardous...👍😀
I met a guy from Effingham at the Ft. Myers Florida ham fest yesterday, name of Jerry.
Awesome, not all that far up the road!
Great job!
Thanks, seems like a slow go, but I'm getting close to standing it up! Hope you see that one!
did you build the whole tower yourself?
I use top rail from chain link fence.
I agree with EOSJOE, your trap vertical requires ground radials, not just a grounded mount. The swr will be great, but it won't radiate well at all. Better off to ground mount the trap vertical and run radials AS WELL as a good ground. If not you are going to have a high radiation angle. This is how verticals get a bad name, equally poor in all directions etc. You would be much better served with a dipole or vee. If you only want 10 meters or something get a ground plane vertical or convert an 11 meter antenna. I am a low band dx'er and use ground mounted verticals with 64 radials each. Very low radiation angle. Google it. 73
Well, we'll see how it goes. There are 2 sets of radials on the 5 band antenna, (short ones of course, aluminum) and I have the antenna manual, so I'll look again. This will be a work in progress as time goes on. I do plan on making a couple of dipoles, strung up in the trees as well. It is still a learning curve, but so much 'theory' on antennas!
Kb1vnt
Great job sir
Thanks, we'll see how long it stays up! Some think I have too much weight, we'll see how it goes!
might be time for a MIG
Probably might work better! But not sure I'd use if quite enough to justify it yet..?
Kapper .... I worked as a mechanical designed and the items that got welded in our indoor model shop never were allowed to be galvanized. Joe you should learn some better work habits or in the long run you will pay a price. Think twice before you decide to do a job that is not something you are good at or do for a living. The price you would pay the man that does it for a living is cheap when you add up the bad lungs, poor heart, bad back, price you pay for parts and tools and it may not works as well as the one you buy and, then it comes down of the roof of the house. It is hard to admit defeat when doing a project BUT .... Now I will go screw something up myself. Hope the back is well cared for and you do great. I will keep you in my prayers.
Galvanic poisoning can be treated by drinking plenty of milk, no need to worry with the amount of welding he is doing.
You lost me with the PVC !
ALL of us are lost with it
Joe......Velour arm chairs in the shop......WTF, hahaha
Hey, them things are leftover from one of our rehab farms, and comfortable as heck!!!! The wife wouldn't let me keep them in the house! lmao.... :)
Dude you are using to much on the weld that you made on that cross member. And use a fan to blow the fumes away from when welding galvanized metal since you do not have an evac system.
Construction is fine, but sort of a comedy of errors electrically. No offense.
LOL, yep, that's what it is on some projects! Glad you enjoyed it. I do tend to goof around some :) Thanks.
# 100
Let's get it up Joe what are you waiting on I'll be over tomorrow
Walker Outdoors Mike glad to see you feeling better. It will be fun to watch u Mike with Joe raising tower!