In addition to what you talked about, I love stealing 4th edition monster abilities for 5e. Lots of tactics in movement, unique abilities, and control of the battlefield. Don't tell anyone but I think 4e combat was the best it's ever been because making encounters is always fun! Some will disagree but I'm not here to start an argument. I just want people to find the DMing style right for them!
100% this. We often have mobs of 1hp minions when we need large groups of enemies for story purposes, and our enemies often change their tactics or abilities when they're at half health. We highly recommend looking to past editions to pull out the gems that got lost along the way.
@@masterthedungeon Do you have any videos about ideas taken from older editions? If not, I would love to see one! Your videos are great and I'm binge watching them. Running pf2e, it's one of the few system-agnostic channels and it is so useful!
These are amazing tips. I remember getting disappointed and annoyed when our DM said “they’re just monsters” or “you can’t do that” when we tried to end the combat peacefully by trying to understand what made the animals attack us in the first place. I’ll keep these in mind if I get to DM one day
Another way to do it could be to give the monsters an objective that doesn’t involve fighting the players. For an example the monsters might be after a certain group of civilians and the party has to keep them from crossing a specific perimeter, like say a small orc army is trying to burn a villige to the ground and the party has to keep them from reaching the fleeing civilians, you could Spice it up by allowing the party to temporarily control guard npcs that have been ordered to help them.
One dynamic that really like is having monsters flee and grab some more friends. A small wolf group might retreat gather the full pack. Likewise, a goblin fleeing in the middle of a dungeon poses a major threat, as it might “wake up” any number of allies.
one of my favorite strategies is having a bunch of skeleton corpses being dragged around by animated swords. the party would be super confused on why the skeletons are dying while the swords beat them up.
Yes. It's personally a pet peeve of mine when DMs have wild animals fight to the death EVERY time. Like, animals don't typically act like that... Living things generally like to continue living.
Part of that is a learned gaming instinct. Killing monsters = xp. Therefore any encounter with a monster = fight. One easy solution to break this murderhobo mindset is simply to use milestone levelling. Then random encounters become challenges and experiences in their own right as opposed to mindless and somewhat nonsensical die rolling. In one game I was running a character seeking shelter from a storm woke a hibernating bear just to fight it for the xp. It was at that moment I realized that something was very, very wrong with the whole concept.
Most animals will run away when sufficiently injured because 1 bad injury means death. Its alao important to note that predators are less deadly than large herbivores because the predators need to stay healthier to keep eating and so they have a very good sense of what they can handle, and herbivore is a tank piloted by a walnut of a brain and will recklessly charge a predator to scare it off. What this means is that every monster you use will have a prefered food source (like lions eating wildebeest and zebra) and if the monster is stalking the party its probably planning to eat them, so they just need to be a less appealing meal than the prefered food source. (Theoretically you could summon a corn pile and run from a bear and it will gladly let you go, as the saying goes you don't need to be faster than the bear just the person next to you) For other situations like territory or child/nest defense the necessary damage threshold is probably much higher, and even then it may choose to grab its kids and run away, some birds will just abandon the nest to have more kids another day, but a momma bear will F you up for having the audacity to exist between her and her cubs. A party should get full XP for driving off an attacking beast or finding another solution to the problem. And reduced xp for recognizing that if i just don't walk on the beach the crabs won't attack and then just not walking on the beach, its a reward for avoiding a problem not for solving one, the rest of the reward is not dealing with the problem.
Look up the old morale rules from earlier versions of D&D, or simply get a creature to make a Wisdom check when "bloodied" at, say, 50% health, 25% health, or if hit "hard" by a critical, attacked by magical fire/cold, etc. If they succeed... they flee!
A few things-- As mentioned elsewhere in the comments, there were rules for morale (quite literally how willing the opponent is to fight after certain amount of time has passed in combat). It was a reasonable option in some fights with intelligent opponents to stop a fight in order to try and make negotiations so that everyone involved can walk away reasonably intact (Sometimes a party could encounter another in a dungeon or the wilderness, or even in civilization, leading to conflict. This is where social skills are useful). From what I've read about OD&D, it was designed around a risk/resource management heist theme, and if a fight broke out, something had gone horribly wrong. A fair fight was risky, and whittled away resources (light, health, items, sometimes weapons or armor). This was why morale and negotiations were so important. Finally, for a interesting look at how to handle weaker enemies, reading about Tucker's Kobolds is highly recommended. DMs will find it to be highly enlightening.
My favorite intelligent monster is a giant spider that makes its nest in huge tree's once the players enter it's territory (made clear by difficult terrain since the ground is covered with webs so if the party continues its their fault) it targets the spell caster by stealthing above the spell caster (it see's that it's not well protected by armor it views armor like exoskeletons) and makes a grapple attack (if it fails it retreats and begins stalking and picks a new target) if it successfully grapples them it webs them up make sure it can't speak (as to not alert fellow party members and to stop spell casting) then moves back up to the tree it sees the rest of the party is armored and is dangerous and it has the food it wants it stops the attack and begins the poison process that most spiders do to liquidate their prey this process takes awhile and can be stopped if the party notices and roll a DC 15 perception check as the spider begins to defend it's home if the party has no range the spider eventually restarts the process. I run this spider to humble my players if they think they can take anything and to teach them range is important
Another thing to do is change the giant spider with a giant wolf spider and also if the party is to dangerous it doesn't attack and waits for a merchant or something
That was certainly one thing I was guilty of, not having my monsters run away sooner. I've since started having them run away when the numbers are not in their favor or if the players land a critical hit or two. I also just had a great encounter with an adult Kruthic leading it's young around while it also had two ghouls as guard. Thankfully my players thought smartly of the encounter and distracted the party of monsters so they could sneak past and continue on their way. Of course they were awarded full XP for the encounter.
Before too many comments get in the way, I would like to say a heartfelt thank you to this channel and the team members who make it possible. I haven't had a dm to guide me to be better in my campaigns and this channel explains things in a thought out and easy to hear way. These videos have inspired me to make some of the best sessions I have run yet. Keep it up guys!
Wow, thank you! We're so happy to have helped you on your DMing journey. Let us know if there are any subjects you'd like to see us cover in the future.
I’ve created a creature called the Rage-Sire Deer which was once a normal deer but due to environmental pressures it evolved into a hyper aggressive behemoth. The Rage-Sire Deer is so aggressive that it will murder everything within its general area even it don’t pose a threat and once everything is dead it goes back to normal deer behavior. Its basically a beefed up deer with barbarian rage.
There's good information in this video. Just getting back into DMing after time away - I've brushed up on my tactics in several ways. Bought the book mentioned below AND make sure my monsters use RANGE weapons from any cover available. Also created Squads of monsters that attack in different ways. Nearly TPK'd 5, 3rd level players with a Squad of Kobols using a sling attack from a chariot pulled by a War Hog. Good tactics aren't hard to learn, just lay out the battle map and decide what the Lead Monster will tell their Squad to do.
Monster motivations and tactics is a poorly covered topic in the monster manual 5e and DMG for sure. Solid points, but I'm more focused on your fun art. Good video.
I remember the first time one of my players said a lot of your monsters run away. I laughed and said yes they do. They said why do you do that? I explained that the monsters have instincts or intelligence. It makes no sense to stay and fight when you are losing. It will not help your species to propagate if you die, and intelligent beings will run for their lives. Unless they have no escape very few living things will not try to flee if they know their life is in danger.
Great video! I entirely agree that ending fights before they even start with intimidation or diplomacy (or animal handling as the case may be) is still 'beating the encounter' and affords full xp rewards. Tangentially, I've learned creature type is a decent yardstick to how much a given monster will take damage before believably trying to flee or surrender: humanoids and beasts most likely (sometimes immediately); monstrosities and oozes less so; aberrations and planar outsiders even less. This last one was justified in our home game as ANY extraplanar being can't be killed-for-real except on their home plane (this reverse-applies to the PCs as well) so as painful as it is, an extraplanar being doesn't have the same fail condition as someone fighting for their life. There's also the example of _Delicious in Dungeon_ where 'monster' is defined as creatures with irrational levels of aggression and negligible self-preservation instinct. This definition probably only works if you have normal beasts behaving normally for comparison.
Goblin slayer is an excellent example of this, i mean it also has them being extra vile, but goblins and kobalds should always be using clever tactics that turn the relatively weak monsters into major pains and genuine threats.
5e. A squad of goblins attack my players' kobold warren. They swarm up over the first kobold guard while the players rush to the ramshackle wooden bridge leading to the mouth of their cave. The dragonborn spits a line of acid breath onto the first three goblins. One goes down in a screaming, melting mess. The one behind him is splattered with acid in his eyes and spends a turn pouring a canteen over his face. The third goblin, the goblin boss, retaliates and hurls a javelin at the dragonborn for a natural twenty. The dragonborn tries to sneak back in the cave while the goblin boss tracks her by the stench of blood, going around one side of a stony pillar to have the dragonborn spring on him from behind with her spear. The goblin boss, critically hit, is pinned up by the spear in the gut. I check the lasting wounds table for something matching what I'd just described; internal injury. The goblin fails a constitution check on his turn and writhes in pain rather than attacks. The dragonborn stabs the goblin with her dagger for that last hitpoint and rejoins the battle. The kobold watchman goes down, but the player kobold fighter finally finishes off the acid-scarred goblin after a couple of railing-kills sending other goblins off the bridge. The players are too distracted helping the kobold watchman from earlier overcome his death saves (humanize your friendly NPCs!), then dragging him into the warren for the local sawbones, to make sure the goblins were properly dead. They return after a short rest to find dead goblins, but no dead goblin boss. Meanwhile the dragonborn tended her wounds to discover that critical javelin is a Festering Wound, a painful reminder of how close death was. And so their low-level rival is formed; Snorgi Scargut.
I do agree with these points... however there are certain types of monsters that do not flee and this makes them much more threatening to your players when they encounter them. These monsters typically consist of monsters that have been created, like constructs and undead, but are not limited to these and can include aberrations, elementald and fiends. There is also the possibility of a monster that acts in a way as a suicide bomber where it's motivation is to die and explode and cause elemental damage. I made a home brew variant of drow that lived on an active Volcano where a smoke cloud blocked out the sun all over the island. The drow worshipped a Volcanic God and some found dyeing in a burst of flame as a blessing. It was like they were living fireball spells that had swords and crossbows as well.
I'd like to recommend the books: THE MONSTERS KNOW WHAT THEIR DOING! and LIVE TO TELL THE TALE! by Keith Annan. The first book gives tactics that make sense for all the monsters in the Monster manual (also has an online website for all the monsters added in the extra books). The second one helps players learn to fight more tactically too. All my fights improved drastically thanks to his work.
I start with the introduction of the monster. The sensory input, a chance to react. The creature appears, a chance to parlay. The creature decides it’s reaction, a chance to change minds. The creature closes to fight, an option to flee fight or alter the field conditions. The encounter is an encounter too, not just the fighting. Ever feel like you were being followed by someone? That didn’t start by one of you rushing to swing a weapon, it might start by noticing someone unfriendly looking who’s been there longer than someone ignoring you would. That’s the beginning of the encounter- even if the guy was just trying to get service on his phone to check his mail.
It's extremely rare that you have an encounter with an animal where it doesn't feel comfortable. Most often it will see you coming a ways off and avoid you if it doesn't want a fight, it will know the lay of it's own land and will have developed strategies to be an effective hunter or defender. Any wild animal should normally have an advantage in the first round of a fight.
The moment the alpha direwolf looks at the bear trap in the grass and growls before calmly walking around it as his packmates poken their heads out of the tall grass on eithrr side of you. Clever boy... XD
Different types of monsters should have different tactics. For mindless undead that aren't being controlled by something intelligent they should act a little more like video game monsters, throwing themselves at the players until killed without worrying about flanking or other tactics. For beasts, they should absolutely have survival instincts and only fight to the death if there is a good reason for them to do so. For humanoids and more intelligent creatures, they should absolutely be thinking about flanking, setting traps, attacking the healer/wizard first, and other advanced tactics.
Another tactic for beasts that are parents: they try to lure the players away. It's a tactic that song birds will often use. They can't win the fight but they can probably outrun you, so they flee from their nest, but only so far that you are still tempted to chase them. If they can get you far enough away they will run away and double back to their nest. Another another tactic: mobbing. Instead of luring the predator away or standing and fighting you wind up with ALL (or at least most) of the parents in the area get together and start charging you and feinting. It's meant more to harass, distract, and annoy than it is to do damage. again, animals usually DON'T want to fight, because fighting means injury and injury means almost certain death, and death means no more babies.
I also have engineered monsters like whatever monstrosities wizards create and other such entities that are created for the purpose of fighting blindly. They tend to be released just to soften up/exhaust their enemies.
Unless your monster is mindless or under the control of something/someone else, a creature is always thinking about survival and wanting to live/continue. It's basic instinct. Even Monster Hunter monsters run away when the going gets tough, sometimes two or three times because they want to survive just as much as you would if you were being slaughtered in the middle of the wilderness. If running a viable option, they'll do it.
Hmmn. I've been wondering how to react to my latest DM throwing Griffins at us... I'm trying to not kill anything that isn't strictly Evil aligned , so it's getting annoying having to kill so damn many Griffins... I'll have to toss this video his way...and maybe I can finally get either a baby gryph to raise or gain the trust of a wounded adult.... Also I'm curious; if a monster flees after being wounded,what are your thoughts on either having the party members run across it again dying of its wounds or finding its either Bled Out or died of shock ( I'd imagine for something like a displacer beast taking a fireball to the chest would eventually prove lethal after all) or infection as a " this is what your actions wrought"?
Try something like a blink dog over a shallow cave system or in an abandoned labrinthine building. Now they can teleport out of sight and lose the humans easily. (Also you can make more than just blink dogs & displacer beasts, imagine a blink spider or displacer crocodile in the right conditions)
One idea I’ve had is to give intelligent enemies (mostly humanoids) the ability to identify enemy roles and target squishier roles or healers, so the tank has to work to protect them. If a mage is with said enemies, have them carry the cantrip that lets them communicate telepathically, thus being able to wordlessly share strategies with their comrades. Perhaps there ought to be a guide for this. I’d go with the name “Dangerous Game”, a reference to ‘The Most Dangerous Game’.
Monsters are more than their stat block and actions. Their move rates, ability scores, movement types, resistances or immunities grant then a LOT of options. If a monster is slow or has a burrowing speed, it's likely an ambush predator. It will strike from a hidden place and without warning. Ankhegs, Bulettes and the like will behave like trapdoor spiders, attacking from below when their chosen target is right above them. They will drag that target down with them because they have the advantage from below. They won't rise up 30' away with a sign saying "I'm your next encounter". Think about the movie Tremors and run them this way. Flying monsters will want to remain that way; flying. They'll attack from above and try to escape. Worse, they may attack from on high and give the players no options but to either escape or meet them in the air. Flying monsters, if strong enough, might bombard the party with stones or debris. That last tactic is something I've started using for Dragons, who are, all by themselves, an entirely new kettle of fish. Dragons, Giants, and similar creatures who have high strengths, immunities or resistances, and some sort of ranged option, will NOT miss an opportunity to abuse these facts. Dragons and Giants will use their environment as a weapon too. A Red Dragon or Fire Giant might start a forest fire or begin burning a community, with ZERO worries about the environmental risks. The panic will flush out prey. Giants can throw boulders with great effect. Those boulders could also key off secondary effects, like structural failure, fires, etc. Dragons can potentially drop boulders, uprooted trees, and grappled prey from high above for enormous amounts of damage. Oozes are their own dangerous lot. Oozes can seep through cracks and small openings, ambushing prey from any direction. Worse yet, there's zero reason an ooze wouldn't surround a target, damaging it simply as a matter of occupying it's space, then lashing out at another target. Any ooze that kills a target will eat it on the spot simply by occupying it's space. Goodbye death saves. Wild animals may drag off prey as well. A Giant Toad or Frog that swallows a target isn't going to hang around. It got what it wanted. It'll bound away. Now the party has to decide if they'll split to pursue or keep fighting where they are. Furthermore, if a DM is running an "organic" or "living" world, monsters will be where they are most logical to be, and player level will not enter into it. Sharks do not care what level you are when you go swimming. Poisonous snakes, frogs, and dangerous insects should be a problem in a jungle environment. If players wander into a Giant's territory, there will be Giants - regardless of the player's level. Then there's the intelligent and cunning types, like Goblins, Kobolds and the like. They KNOW they're smaller. They KNOW they'll die against larger foes. So they'll use traps a lot. They'll use things or tactics that even the playing field. Ceramic jars with wasp nests, spiked pit traps, snares, trained rats or wolves, etc. are all likely. They'll know of an grow dangerous fungi to guard key points. Shriekers and Violet Fungi should be present. Heck, zero damage traps that make players stink of rancid blood from butchered prey should drop on unwary PCs, luring these trained animals to them. Monsters are often as misunderstood as alignment and charm spells, and argued over just as much. That aside, the one truth should remain: monsters want to live (or stay unliving), and should act to their best advantage unless forced otherwise.
Hm when you think about it that means an Owlbear (or just a normal bear/most animals) wouldnt try to fight against goliaths and orcs/half orcs because of how big they are. "Remember that instincts often replace intelligence, and creatures arent going to act recklessly." Yeah but you could say that the instincts of a Blink Dog and Displacer Beast are reckless, most times a Displacer beast will kill elves on sight because of their history of slavery/animal abuse (displacer beasts are supposed to be intelligent beasts but the description and stats differ alot), then when it comes to a Blink Dog, if it smells even a hint of Displacer Beast in the area it goes into hunting mode, it becomes less of a domesticated dog, and more feral wolf. The instinct to fight to the death are in some beast in dnd but not for the reason you think.
I would term those blood fueds / genetic rivalries which is definitely different from the typical bear just looking for food. (And unarmed person can shout loud enough to scare off a blackbear if they don't provoke it, I've even seen videos of Canadians politely asking bears to leave so they can go to work although i think the bears are just avoiding humans in those videos)
Before 3e, there was a game mecanic called "moral". Most creatures did not fight to the death. Some even ran away after the first ally was taken down. Same thing with mercs the PCs payed to help them. Nombers, charisma of the leader, presence of spell casters are but a few things that afected how high moral was.
If monsters won't attack unnecessarily, there will only be one encounter in a full moon, haha. There are only so many causes to engage a full party. Territorial enemies are nice, but the question is if players can even tell this is why they get attacked (or care), and if it then makes a difference in praxis. I had an flying spider extermination quest, those did not even attack until shot at but then fought to their death like a wasp.
Encounter xp then? Or generally event xp. This could still mean more xp for fighting, but killing does not increase, heck, maybe the less lethal ways could yield more. It is a lot more harder to capture or subdue than it is to kill after all. Avoiding an encounter is a very different encounter though. Buuut... If lingering wounds are a thing in your campaign, not fighting a fight if not needed could be seen as a blessing in itself.
@@thomasbecker9676 My point is that your scenario is very unlikely, would most likely be in large part the players' fault if it did happen, and if it did happen and wasn't the players' fault, it would have to involve a lot of cheating from the DM.
Played a game of third ed with a bunch of ADnD second ed veterans... When the DM said the wolves flee, I left the last one lying on the ground before me get up and flee too. Players shrieked at the table: "What about the xp?" "Man, we defeated them. We got xp." These guys were the same guys, who actively chased after the fleeing goblin raiding party in order to find more. (While I stayed behind to either ease the passing of our victims or save those that can be saved.) Monsters... Funniest thing, the game devolved into a dm vs players thing quickly. Should've just stopped playing altogether, I could see the DM did not enjoy himself at all. Old school DnD, sandwitched between 3rd ed and ODnD, embedded the idea of spilled blood equals xp.
I think these recommendations are wonderful. My only gripe is with your position on monsters fighting to the death. In this video, It sounds to me like you are equating "monsters" with beast-like fauna, for which it would make sense to have a drive to survive. In my personal experiences as a GM, however, many of my monsters have been other things for which that drive would not make as much sense. I often use demons, wraiths, or other creatures of personified evil or corruption, extremely ideologically bent mortal people such as death-cultists, or what are essentially groups of warbands (of hobgoblins/gnolls, etc.) that have a specific task to accomplish in a given location. My third example have reasons to want to survive another day, but might be being coerced by an intimidating superior. My first and second examples often do not and will fight to the death. Some of my death-cultists might be basically reasonable people deep down and perhaps could be reasoned with by someone very skilled at negotiating, but creatures I use as monsters such as demons or wraiths absolutely do not. A demon exists to cause chaos and suffering and knows it will be reborn in the maelstrom of the abyss if it dies. An intelligent demon may wish to stay in the material plane as long as possible to cause as much suffering as it can, and if it thinks it doesn't have a quick way back, death would be a huge inconvenience to it. It may not fight every potential victim it sees to the death. One such example I can think of is when I included a demon in my game that had been given a specific task in an area (similarly to the warbands I mentioned earlier) and it allowed the players to flee when they decided to run away. That was a bit of an unusual circumstance, however, and other demons will absolutely fight to the death. Some of my monsters though, like my wraiths, will pretty much always fight to the death no matter what. My wraiths are as to a soul as a black hole is to a star; they are the hole left behind after a soul collapses in on itself. A wraith has lost all capacity for joy and love and is essentially only sentient in so far as it is able to suffer and lash out in that suffering. It is essentially a misery elemental that seeks out and drains sources of life and hope in a futile attempt to fill the bottomless pit within itself and ease the constant suffering it exists in, and it will continue to do so until oblivion. It is not fun to be a wraith. Their very concept is horrifying and they should not exist. (This has been edited to correct a few typos and separate paragraphs for easier reading. I was very tired when I originally wrote this.)
Creature class is definitely a good way to judge things. Most "animals" will flee on instinct, and predators specifically just want easy prey and if you can be less "worth the effort" than its usual prey it will try to get away and avoid you in the future. Anything being coerced can be driven off iff (if and only if) you are significantly more scary than the being doing the coercing. (Sometimes militaries will fall in this category as a "tactical retreat" but they will be back) Extra planar beings know they won't really die and will only be inconvenienced so you need to consider if they decide the inconvenience is worth it. And finally, you have automotons, and the insane. A robot security guard will not have self preservation tendancies, a rabid animal or evil cultists won't make rational decisions. Also cornered animals will fight viciously for a way out and until it can escape falls in this category. Tldr; you can scare off a bear, but a demon only sees death as temporary and the golem guarding the bank vault is programmed to do everything in its power to defend that vault from you.
This reminds me very much of 'The Monsters Know What They're Doing' blog. Very entertaining and great food for thought!
I find it funny that I finally bought it yesterday, and voilà!
New video on the topic
We're big fans of Keith's books!
Those babies are just. So good lol
In addition to what you talked about, I love stealing 4th edition monster abilities for 5e. Lots of tactics in movement, unique abilities, and control of the battlefield.
Don't tell anyone but I think 4e combat was the best it's ever been because making encounters is always fun! Some will disagree but I'm not here to start an argument. I just want people to find the DMing style right for them!
100% this. We often have mobs of 1hp minions when we need large groups of enemies for story purposes, and our enemies often change their tactics or abilities when they're at half health. We highly recommend looking to past editions to pull out the gems that got lost along the way.
@@masterthedungeon Do you have any videos about ideas taken from older editions? If not, I would love to see one! Your videos are great and I'm binge watching them. Running pf2e, it's one of the few system-agnostic channels and it is so useful!
TY!
These are amazing tips. I remember getting disappointed and annoyed when our DM said “they’re just monsters” or “you can’t do that” when we tried to end the combat peacefully by trying to understand what made the animals attack us in the first place. I’ll keep these in mind if I get to DM one day
Another way to do it could be to give the monsters an objective that doesn’t involve fighting the players. For an example the monsters might be after a certain group of civilians and the party has to keep them from crossing a specific perimeter, like say a small orc army is trying to burn a villige to the ground and the party has to keep them from reaching the fleeing civilians, you could Spice it up by allowing the party to temporarily control guard npcs that have been ordered to help them.
That's a great idea!
One dynamic that really like is having monsters flee and grab some more friends. A small wolf group might retreat gather the full pack. Likewise, a goblin fleeing in the middle of a dungeon poses a major threat, as it might “wake up” any number of allies.
Excellent point!
one of my favorite strategies is having a bunch of skeleton corpses being dragged around by animated swords. the party would be super confused on why the skeletons are dying while the swords beat them up.
Im totally stealing this for my next session
This channel is a hidden gem.
1:55
All the thumbs up for the displacer beast kittens.
Yes. It's personally a pet peeve of mine when DMs have wild animals fight to the death EVERY time. Like, animals don't typically act like that... Living things generally like to continue living.
Part of that is a learned gaming instinct. Killing monsters = xp. Therefore any encounter with a monster = fight. One easy solution to break this murderhobo mindset is simply to use milestone levelling. Then random encounters become challenges and experiences in their own right as opposed to mindless and somewhat nonsensical die rolling.
In one game I was running a character seeking shelter from a storm woke a hibernating bear just to fight it for the xp. It was at that moment I realized that something was very, very wrong with the whole concept.
Most animals will run away when sufficiently injured because 1 bad injury means death.
Its alao important to note that predators are less deadly than large herbivores because the predators need to stay healthier to keep eating and so they have a very good sense of what they can handle, and herbivore is a tank piloted by a walnut of a brain and will recklessly charge a predator to scare it off.
What this means is that every monster you use will have a prefered food source (like lions eating wildebeest and zebra) and if the monster is stalking the party its probably planning to eat them, so they just need to be a less appealing meal than the prefered food source. (Theoretically you could summon a corn pile and run from a bear and it will gladly let you go, as the saying goes you don't need to be faster than the bear just the person next to you)
For other situations like territory or child/nest defense the necessary damage threshold is probably much higher, and even then it may choose to grab its kids and run away, some birds will just abandon the nest to have more kids another day, but a momma bear will F you up for having the audacity to exist between her and her cubs.
A party should get full XP for driving off an attacking beast or finding another solution to the problem. And reduced xp for recognizing that if i just don't walk on the beach the crabs won't attack and then just not walking on the beach, its a reward for avoiding a problem not for solving one, the rest of the reward is not dealing with the problem.
@@4saken404 even without milestone (though I do use it), you’re supposed to award exp for getting out of an experience without combat. That’s RAW!
Look up the old morale rules from earlier versions of D&D, or simply get a creature to make a Wisdom check when "bloodied" at, say, 50% health, 25% health, or if hit "hard" by a critical, attacked by magical fire/cold, etc. If they succeed... they flee!
A few things-- As mentioned elsewhere in the comments, there were rules for morale (quite literally how willing the opponent is to fight after certain amount of time has passed in combat). It was a reasonable option in some fights with intelligent opponents to stop a fight in order to try and make negotiations so that everyone involved can walk away reasonably intact (Sometimes a party could encounter another in a dungeon or the wilderness, or even in civilization, leading to conflict. This is where social skills are useful).
From what I've read about OD&D, it was designed around a risk/resource management heist theme, and if a fight broke out, something had gone horribly wrong. A fair fight was risky, and whittled away resources (light, health, items, sometimes weapons or armor). This was why morale and negotiations were so important.
Finally, for a interesting look at how to handle weaker enemies, reading about Tucker's Kobolds is highly recommended. DMs will find it to be highly enlightening.
My favorite intelligent monster is a giant spider that makes its nest in huge tree's once the players enter it's territory (made clear by difficult terrain since the ground is covered with webs so if the party continues its their fault) it targets the spell caster by stealthing above the spell caster (it see's that it's not well protected by armor it views armor like exoskeletons) and makes a grapple attack (if it fails it retreats and begins stalking and picks a new target) if it successfully grapples them it webs them up make sure it can't speak (as to not alert fellow party members and to stop spell casting) then moves back up to the tree it sees the rest of the party is armored and is dangerous and it has the food it wants it stops the attack and begins the poison process that most spiders do to liquidate their prey this process takes awhile and can be stopped if the party notices and roll a DC 15 perception check as the spider begins to defend it's home if the party has no range the spider eventually restarts the process.
I run this spider to humble my players if they think they can take anything and to teach them range is important
Another thing to do is change the giant spider with a giant wolf spider and also if the party is to dangerous it doesn't attack and waits for a merchant or something
That was certainly one thing I was guilty of, not having my monsters run away sooner. I've since started having them run away when the numbers are not in their favor or if the players land a critical hit or two. I also just had a great encounter with an adult Kruthic leading it's young around while it also had two ghouls as guard. Thankfully my players thought smartly of the encounter and distracted the party of monsters so they could sneak past and continue on their way. Of course they were awarded full XP for the encounter.
Before too many comments get in the way, I would like to say a heartfelt thank you to this channel and the team members who make it possible. I haven't had a dm to guide me to be better in my campaigns and this channel explains things in a thought out and easy to hear way. These videos have inspired me to make some of the best sessions I have run yet. Keep it up guys!
Wow, thank you! We're so happy to have helped you on your DMing journey. Let us know if there are any subjects you'd like to see us cover in the future.
I’ve created a creature called the Rage-Sire Deer which was once a normal deer but due to environmental pressures it evolved into a hyper aggressive behemoth. The Rage-Sire Deer is so aggressive that it will murder everything within its general area even it don’t pose a threat and once everything is dead it goes back to normal deer behavior.
Its basically a beefed up deer with barbarian rage.
There's good information in this video. Just getting back into DMing after time away - I've brushed up on my tactics in several ways. Bought the book mentioned below AND make sure my monsters use RANGE weapons from any cover available. Also created Squads of monsters that attack in different ways. Nearly TPK'd 5, 3rd level players with a Squad of Kobols using a sling attack from a chariot pulled by a War Hog. Good tactics aren't hard to learn, just lay out the battle map and decide what the Lead Monster will tell their Squad to do.
Monster motivations and tactics is a poorly covered topic in the monster manual 5e and DMG for sure. Solid points, but I'm more focused on your fun art. Good video.
I remember the first time one of my players said a lot of your monsters run away. I laughed and said yes they do. They said why do you do that? I explained that the monsters have instincts or intelligence. It makes no sense to stay and fight when you are losing. It will not help your species to propagate if you die, and intelligent beings will run for their lives. Unless they have no escape very few living things will not try to flee if they know their life is in danger.
all my monsters are treated like real animals....until my players violently lobotomize them with fire.
Great video! I entirely agree that ending fights before they even start with intimidation or diplomacy (or animal handling as the case may be) is still 'beating the encounter' and affords full xp rewards.
Tangentially, I've learned creature type is a decent yardstick to how much a given monster will take damage before believably trying to flee or surrender: humanoids and beasts most likely (sometimes immediately); monstrosities and oozes less so; aberrations and planar outsiders even less. This last one was justified in our home game as ANY extraplanar being can't be killed-for-real except on their home plane (this reverse-applies to the PCs as well) so as painful as it is, an extraplanar being doesn't have the same fail condition as someone fighting for their life.
There's also the example of _Delicious in Dungeon_ where 'monster' is defined as creatures with irrational levels of aggression and negligible self-preservation instinct. This definition probably only works if you have normal beasts behaving normally for comparison.
When you give goblins appropiate tactics, they can be incredibly dangerous
Goblin slayer is an excellent example of this, i mean it also has them being extra vile, but goblins and kobalds should always be using clever tactics that turn the relatively weak monsters into major pains and genuine threats.
Yes, just using Hide as a Bonus Action and taking the mini off the battlemat will give the players a bigger challenge.
@@katjordan3733 Plus if hidden they have advantage to hit next turn due to "Unseen Attacker."
They can then hide again as a bonus action
Kobolds are actual threats when tactics get involved too
5e. A squad of goblins attack my players' kobold warren. They swarm up over the first kobold guard while the players rush to the ramshackle wooden bridge leading to the mouth of their cave. The dragonborn spits a line of acid breath onto the first three goblins. One goes down in a screaming, melting mess. The one behind him is splattered with acid in his eyes and spends a turn pouring a canteen over his face. The third goblin, the goblin boss, retaliates and hurls a javelin at the dragonborn for a natural twenty. The dragonborn tries to sneak back in the cave while the goblin boss tracks her by the stench of blood, going around one side of a stony pillar to have the dragonborn spring on him from behind with her spear. The goblin boss, critically hit, is pinned up by the spear in the gut. I check the lasting wounds table for something matching what I'd just described; internal injury. The goblin fails a constitution check on his turn and writhes in pain rather than attacks. The dragonborn stabs the goblin with her dagger for that last hitpoint and rejoins the battle. The kobold watchman goes down, but the player kobold fighter finally finishes off the acid-scarred goblin after a couple of railing-kills sending other goblins off the bridge.
The players are too distracted helping the kobold watchman from earlier overcome his death saves (humanize your friendly NPCs!), then dragging him into the warren for the local sawbones, to make sure the goblins were properly dead. They return after a short rest to find dead goblins, but no dead goblin boss. Meanwhile the dragonborn tended her wounds to discover that critical javelin is a Festering Wound, a painful reminder of how close death was.
And so their low-level rival is formed; Snorgi Scargut.
Another great video.
I do agree with these points... however there are certain types of monsters that do not flee and this makes them much more threatening to your players when they encounter them.
These monsters typically consist of monsters that have been created, like constructs and undead, but are not limited to these and can include aberrations, elementald and fiends.
There is also the possibility of a monster that acts in a way as a suicide bomber where it's motivation is to die and explode and cause elemental damage.
I made a home brew variant of drow that lived on an active Volcano where a smoke cloud blocked out the sun all over the island. The drow worshipped a Volcanic God and some found dyeing in a burst of flame as a blessing. It was like they were living fireball spells that had swords and crossbows as well.
I'd like to recommend the books:
THE MONSTERS KNOW WHAT THEIR DOING!
and
LIVE TO TELL THE TALE!
by Keith Annan.
The first book gives tactics that make sense for all the monsters in the Monster manual (also has an online website for all the monsters added in the extra books).
The second one helps players learn to fight more tactically too.
All my fights improved drastically thanks to his work.
I start with the introduction of the monster. The sensory input, a chance to react. The creature appears, a chance to parlay. The creature decides it’s reaction, a chance to change minds. The creature closes to fight, an option to flee fight or alter the field conditions.
The encounter is an encounter too, not just the fighting.
Ever feel like you were being followed by someone? That didn’t start by one of you rushing to swing a weapon, it might start by noticing someone unfriendly looking who’s been there longer than someone ignoring you would.
That’s the beginning of the encounter- even if the guy was just trying to get service on his phone to check his mail.
this works with everything not just dnd, I was was at Starbucks the other day....
It's extremely rare that you have an encounter with an animal where it doesn't feel comfortable. Most often it will see you coming a ways off and avoid you if it doesn't want a fight, it will know the lay of it's own land and will have developed strategies to be an effective hunter or defender. Any wild animal should normally have an advantage in the first round of a fight.
The moment the alpha direwolf looks at the bear trap in the grass and growls before calmly walking around it as his packmates poken their heads out of the tall grass on eithrr side of you. Clever boy...
XD
Different types of monsters should have different tactics. For mindless undead that aren't being controlled by something intelligent they should act a little more like video game monsters, throwing themselves at the players until killed without worrying about flanking or other tactics. For beasts, they should absolutely have survival instincts and only fight to the death if there is a good reason for them to do so. For humanoids and more intelligent creatures, they should absolutely be thinking about flanking, setting traps, attacking the healer/wizard first, and other advanced tactics.
Another tactic for beasts that are parents: they try to lure the players away. It's a tactic that song birds will often use. They can't win the fight but they can probably outrun you, so they flee from their nest, but only so far that you are still tempted to chase them. If they can get you far enough away they will run away and double back to their nest.
Another another tactic: mobbing. Instead of luring the predator away or standing and fighting you wind up with ALL (or at least most) of the parents in the area get together and start charging you and feinting. It's meant more to harass, distract, and annoy than it is to do damage.
again, animals usually DON'T want to fight, because fighting means injury and injury means almost certain death, and death means no more babies.
Fantastic video, awesome visuals, great voiceover. You can tell that you put thought into this, great work! I'm definitely subscribed now!!
Thanks for the sub!
I also have engineered monsters like whatever monstrosities wizards create and other such entities that are created for the purpose of fighting blindly. They tend to be released just to soften up/exhaust their enemies.
Unless your monster is mindless or under the control of something/someone else, a creature is always thinking about survival and wanting to live/continue. It's basic instinct. Even Monster Hunter monsters run away when the going gets tough, sometimes two or three times because they want to survive just as much as you would if you were being slaughtered in the middle of the wilderness. If running a viable option, they'll do it.
Hmmn. I've been wondering how to react to my latest DM throwing Griffins at us... I'm trying to not kill anything that isn't strictly Evil aligned , so it's getting annoying having to kill so damn many Griffins...
I'll have to toss this video his way...and maybe I can finally get either a baby gryph to raise or gain the trust of a wounded adult....
Also I'm curious; if a monster flees after being wounded,what are your thoughts on either having the party members run across it again dying of its wounds or finding its either Bled Out or died of shock ( I'd imagine for something like a displacer beast taking a fireball to the chest would eventually prove lethal after all) or infection as a " this is what your actions wrought"?
My minmax bff wants to blow up anything he thinks will challenge him. He took Eldritch Spear in case anything tries to run. Lol
haha, gamers gonna game.
Try something like a blink dog over a shallow cave system or in an abandoned labrinthine building. Now they can teleport out of sight and lose the humans easily. (Also you can make more than just blink dogs & displacer beasts, imagine a blink spider or displacer crocodile in the right conditions)
Your channel is a hidden gem! Hopefully not hidden for long!
Also, making living creatures act like living creatures makes undead, mechanical, and the truly weird stand out as even more unnerving.
Thanks for the content.
One idea I’ve had is to give intelligent enemies (mostly humanoids) the ability to identify enemy roles and target squishier roles or healers, so the tank has to work to protect them. If a mage is with said enemies, have them carry the cantrip that lets them communicate telepathically, thus being able to wordlessly share strategies with their comrades.
Perhaps there ought to be a guide for this. I’d go with the name “Dangerous Game”, a reference to ‘The Most Dangerous Game’.
Im trying to use that monsters run away if its dangerous to stay, but my party is combat hungry and they always follow them :'D
Monsters are more than their stat block and actions. Their move rates, ability scores, movement types, resistances or immunities grant then a LOT of options.
If a monster is slow or has a burrowing speed, it's likely an ambush predator. It will strike from a hidden place and without warning. Ankhegs, Bulettes and the like will behave like trapdoor spiders, attacking from below when their chosen target is right above them. They will drag that target down with them because they have the advantage from below. They won't rise up 30' away with a sign saying "I'm your next encounter". Think about the movie Tremors and run them this way.
Flying monsters will want to remain that way; flying. They'll attack from above and try to escape. Worse, they may attack from on high and give the players no options but to either escape or meet them in the air. Flying monsters, if strong enough, might bombard the party with stones or debris.
That last tactic is something I've started using for Dragons, who are, all by themselves, an entirely new kettle of fish. Dragons, Giants, and similar creatures who have high strengths, immunities or resistances, and some sort of ranged option, will NOT miss an opportunity to abuse these facts. Dragons and Giants will use their environment as a weapon too. A Red Dragon or Fire Giant might start a forest fire or begin burning a community, with ZERO worries about the environmental risks. The panic will flush out prey. Giants can throw boulders with great effect. Those boulders could also key off secondary effects, like structural failure, fires, etc.
Dragons can potentially drop boulders, uprooted trees, and grappled prey from high above for enormous amounts of damage.
Oozes are their own dangerous lot. Oozes can seep through cracks and small openings, ambushing prey from any direction. Worse yet, there's zero reason an ooze wouldn't surround a target, damaging it simply as a matter of occupying it's space, then lashing out at another target. Any ooze that kills a target will eat it on the spot simply by occupying it's space. Goodbye death saves.
Wild animals may drag off prey as well. A Giant Toad or Frog that swallows a target isn't going to hang around. It got what it wanted. It'll bound away. Now the party has to decide if they'll split to pursue or keep fighting where they are.
Furthermore, if a DM is running an "organic" or "living" world, monsters will be where they are most logical to be, and player level will not enter into it. Sharks do not care what level you are when you go swimming. Poisonous snakes, frogs, and dangerous insects should be a problem in a jungle environment. If players wander into a Giant's territory, there will be Giants - regardless of the player's level.
Then there's the intelligent and cunning types, like Goblins, Kobolds and the like. They KNOW they're smaller. They KNOW they'll die against larger foes. So they'll use traps a lot. They'll use things or tactics that even the playing field. Ceramic jars with wasp nests, spiked pit traps, snares, trained rats or wolves, etc. are all likely. They'll know of an grow dangerous fungi to guard key points. Shriekers and Violet Fungi should be present. Heck, zero damage traps that make players stink of rancid blood from butchered prey should drop on unwary PCs, luring these trained animals to them.
Monsters are often as misunderstood as alignment and charm spells, and argued over just as much. That aside, the one truth should remain: monsters want to live (or stay unliving), and should act to their best advantage unless forced otherwise.
Hm when you think about it that means an Owlbear (or just a normal bear/most animals) wouldnt try to fight against goliaths and orcs/half orcs because of how big they are.
"Remember that instincts often replace intelligence, and creatures arent going to act recklessly."
Yeah but you could say that the instincts of a Blink Dog and Displacer Beast are reckless, most times a Displacer beast will kill elves on sight because of their history of slavery/animal abuse (displacer beasts are supposed to be intelligent beasts but the description and stats differ alot), then when it comes to a Blink Dog, if it smells even a hint of Displacer Beast in the area it goes into hunting mode, it becomes less of a domesticated dog, and more feral wolf. The instinct to fight to the death are in some beast in dnd but not for the reason you think.
I would term those blood fueds / genetic rivalries which is definitely different from the typical bear just looking for food. (And unarmed person can shout loud enough to scare off a blackbear if they don't provoke it, I've even seen videos of Canadians politely asking bears to leave so they can go to work although i think the bears are just avoiding humans in those videos)
This is something I want to do so much but haven't been able to. Every time I tried to, nothing comes up in my head.
Before 3e, there was a game mecanic called "moral". Most creatures did not fight to the death. Some even ran away after the first ally was taken down.
Same thing with mercs the PCs payed to help them.
Nombers, charisma of the leader, presence of spell casters are but a few things that afected how high moral was.
I run Moral as a % roll. Under 50%, they stand and fight. Add 10% to their roll for any downed comrades, and 25% if their leader is down/hurt bad.
If monsters won't attack unnecessarily, there will only be one encounter in a full moon, haha. There are only so many causes to engage a full party.
Territorial enemies are nice, but the question is if players can even tell this is why they get attacked (or care), and if it then makes a difference in praxis.
I had an flying spider extermination quest, those did not even attack until shot at but then fought to their death like a wasp.
I wouldn't reward xp for killing things to begin with.
Encounter xp then?
Or generally event xp. This could still mean more xp for fighting, but killing does not increase, heck, maybe the less lethal ways could yield more.
It is a lot more harder to capture or subdue than it is to kill after all.
Avoiding an encounter is a very different encounter though.
Buuut... If lingering wounds are a thing in your campaign, not fighting a fight if not needed could be seen as a blessing in itself.
me watching this as a complete newbie to dnd
and haven't even dm'ed once
>.>
Great video, here from Reddit.
I tried to have monster behave like actual predators and I had players complain that they couldn't kill the beasts for trophies.
Well, they should adjust their tactics and prepare to stop the monsters or give chase. How is this _your_ problem?
4:14 but not Owlbears... Owlbears are fearless beyond stupid.
Nice.
Being controlled is another option
Imagine a campaign where all the enemies retreated, and the party never got loot.
The players have the option of pursuing, and some opponents may be motivated to fight to the death.
@@theuncalledfor What's your point? I'm stating a hypothetical scenario.
@@thomasbecker9676
My point is that your scenario is very unlikely, would most likely be in large part the players' fault if it did happen, and if it did happen and wasn't the players' fault, it would have to involve a lot of cheating from the DM.
@@theuncalledfor Almost like I was stating a hypothetical situation, or something.
@@thomasbecker9676
So, what, you don't like discussing things about your hypothetical situation?
Played a game of third ed with a bunch of ADnD second ed veterans... When the DM said the wolves flee, I left the last one lying on the ground before me get up and flee too. Players shrieked at the table: "What about the xp?"
"Man, we defeated them. We got xp."
These guys were the same guys, who actively chased after the fleeing goblin raiding party in order to find more. (While I stayed behind to either ease the passing of our victims or save those that can be saved.)
Monsters... Funniest thing, the game devolved into a dm vs players thing quickly.
Should've just stopped playing altogether, I could see the DM did not enjoy himself at all.
Old school DnD, sandwitched between 3rd ed and ODnD, embedded the idea of spilled blood equals xp.
I think these recommendations are wonderful. My only gripe is with your position on monsters fighting to the death. In this video, It sounds to me like you are equating "monsters" with beast-like fauna, for which it would make sense to have a drive to survive.
In my personal experiences as a GM, however, many of my monsters have been other things for which that drive would not make as much sense. I often use demons, wraiths, or other creatures of personified evil or corruption, extremely ideologically bent mortal people such as death-cultists, or what are essentially groups of warbands (of hobgoblins/gnolls, etc.) that have a specific task to accomplish in a given location.
My third example have reasons to want to survive another day, but might be being coerced by an intimidating superior. My first and second examples often do not and will fight to the death.
Some of my death-cultists might be basically reasonable people deep down and perhaps could be reasoned with by someone very skilled at negotiating, but creatures I use as monsters such as demons or wraiths absolutely do not. A demon exists to cause chaos and suffering and knows it will be reborn in the maelstrom of the abyss if it dies. An intelligent demon may wish to stay in the material plane as long as possible to cause as much suffering as it can, and if it thinks it doesn't have a quick way back, death would be a huge inconvenience to it. It may not fight every potential victim it sees to the death.
One such example I can think of is when I included a demon in my game that had been given a specific task in an area (similarly to the warbands I mentioned earlier) and it allowed the players to flee when they decided to run away. That was a bit of an unusual circumstance, however, and other demons will absolutely fight to the death.
Some of my monsters though, like my wraiths, will pretty much always fight to the death no matter what. My wraiths are as to a soul as a black hole is to a star; they are the hole left behind after a soul collapses in on itself. A wraith has lost all capacity for joy and love and is essentially only sentient in so far as it is able to suffer and lash out in that suffering. It is essentially a misery elemental that seeks out and drains sources of life and hope in a futile attempt to fill the bottomless pit within itself and ease the constant suffering it exists in, and it will continue to do so until oblivion. It is not fun to be a wraith. Their very concept is horrifying and they should not exist.
(This has been edited to correct a few typos and separate paragraphs for easier reading. I was very tired when I originally wrote this.)
Creature class is definitely a good way to judge things.
Most "animals" will flee on instinct, and predators specifically just want easy prey and if you can be less "worth the effort" than its usual prey it will try to get away and avoid you in the future.
Anything being coerced can be driven off iff (if and only if) you are significantly more scary than the being doing the coercing. (Sometimes militaries will fall in this category as a "tactical retreat" but they will be back)
Extra planar beings know they won't really die and will only be inconvenienced so you need to consider if they decide the inconvenience is worth it.
And finally, you have automotons, and the insane. A robot security guard will not have self preservation tendancies, a rabid animal or evil cultists won't make rational decisions. Also cornered animals will fight viciously for a way out and until it can escape falls in this category.
Tldr; you can scare off a bear, but a demon only sees death as temporary and the golem guarding the bank vault is programmed to do everything in its power to defend that vault from you.