Machine Overlords & Post-Discontent Societies
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Machines may help bring about a Post-Scarcity Utopia, assuming they don't take over instead, and we dream of a future that is a Post-Scarcity Utopia, but its dark reflection is the Post-Discontent society, one where through deception or brainwashing people do not even known how they are being deprived or oppressed.
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Machine Overlords & Post-Discontent Societies
Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur
Episode 273a; January 17, 2021
Produced, Written, and Narrated by Isaac Arthur
Editors:
Jason Burbank
Jerry Guern • Paleontology - by Jerr...
Keith Blockus
Matthew Campbell
Cover Art:
Jakub Grygier www.artstation...
Graphics:
Jeremy Jozwik www.artstation...
LegionTech Studios
Music Courtesy of Epidemic Sound epidemicsound.c...
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I for one welcome our robot overlords so long as their programming is open source.
What's ironic is our overlord is open source.
...and you can assist in rounding up others...
cringe
I often get in trouble over open source. My wife insists that I put the lid back on before returning it to the pantry.
😂🤣😅
I'd welcome our future robot overlords if not for the fact they'd be programmed by the very people from which I crave liberation.
I feel really sorry for you. I hope that we can free you sometime my poor friend. We all want people like you to be free but there is little we can do about that. I hope you can survive.
You've hit on the point of the Butlerian Jihad in Dune. It wasn't about throwing off their AI overlords, it was about throwing off the people who were using AI to oppress other people.
@@mr.knowitall5019 What are you smoking? The exact same people rule over you, are you just proud of your wage slavery?
@@iraholden3606 (I believe that it was sarcasm, edging into Poe's law territory with all its weight).
@ゴロゴロ +20 points have been added to your social credit score. You may keep your organs for now.
I like to imagine the Festival occurs when Landrue is undergoing a software patch update, and cannot hold the minds of the population together during the ensuing reboot.
Temp file purge
@@springbloom5940 emphasis on "Purge"?
That's because Landru runs on Windows ME.
Guess he runs Windows, then. Linux can be patched without rebooting.
I like to imagine that this is how my colonies in Rimworld are run. I'm the evil hidden force telepathically enslaving people, but occasionally my control weakens and they have a "mental break".
"You will be happy and under control." Ah yes, tyranny with a smile, brought to you by Facebook.
who the hell uses Facebook nowadays?
@@kitty.miracle Yeah I agree. It's unfortunate.
Facebook is the opposite of a post discontent overlord. It actively prompts discontent for the sake of the Facebook share holders. More discontent => more engagement => more ad revenue.
@@strikeone7803 most of Facebook's growth have been in Third World markets.
it is time for us to do what we are told.
Isaac: People wonder why they are being fed that food for free.
People: X use free social media and news X
A+++ for you, good sir. Well done!
Moo.
Social media is not free.
As my wife and I frequently say
"Everything goes back to Star Trek"
The Purge movies are basically the festival from "Return of the Archons".
Remember how the Reavers were created in FIrefly: it was an attempt to create a post-discontent society.
"Cows ruminate on their breakfast" 🤣 that's a good play on words
When he's talking about coordinating coordinators and such it's basically what massive corporations are. Everything above store manager is only there because the business is too big.
I am all in favor of replacing Middle Managers with A.I. :D Hell, imagine the US government as is, but every politician is replaced with an A.I. Really, it seems the main problem is jackass humans.
@@shorewall I wonder who (or what) is held accountable when the AI has a bug. Consider full self-driving cars, for example. I’m not sure we can remove pesky humans from the chain of accountability.
@@UnexpectedBooks we can however reduce those needed incredibly with our current tech, by adopting laborist techniques of employee voting, reporting and partial employee ownership. An AI management with clear simple coding could reduce management requirements by a good 80%
We just don't at large, at the moment. That tends to change as acceptable minimum wage rises.
@@shorewall Eventually it will be possible to replace every single employee with an AI or robot. Possibly all the way up to CEO. I expect within this century there will be at least one AI-only corporation with no human employees.
@@UnexpectedBooks AI has a low chance of getting a bug, while human politicians are 99% corrupt and those corrupt humans are not held accountable anyway.
Brought to you by Our Skillshare Overlords*
note the glint off their gold grill teeth caps
How long until everyone serves Google, Amazon, and the almighty TH-cam algorithm... I foresee religious wars like Protestants and Catholics in the 1400s... youtubers fighting the unholy Bitchute's...
@Robin Yabanks Is it expensive? I am unable to work due to mental health issues, but if I can afford the classes then I will do it. I see it as a long term investment
"Sick and starving workers may be a common theme in oppressive empires in science fiction..." lol
There are no real-life successful Empires that use sick and starving workers because sick and starving workers will be unable to create anything of lasting or of value, and any faction that uses such workers would never reach Empire status.
For example, despite historical demonization by their Enemies and Rivals, the Egyptians did not beat and starve its workers/slaves to death because they actually needed them to do things. Said Slaves actually went on historical record as starting the worlds first worker strike, which they won, since beating/imprisoning/killing them all meant there would be literally no workers. You cannot starve someone to the point of having no strength or energy and break their arms and legs but expect them to get anything done, let alone build an Empire. Said Workers/Slaves being sick meant that they would risk spreading the sickness to everyone else, so no, sickness was not tolerated, even in workers and slaves.
@@LordProteus I was "lol-ing" at the fact that this is the reality of the US empire, right now.
@@kristbane "There are no real-life successful Empires" well, you are both right.
@@LordProteus so basically class struggle
@@kristbane Yes but the US empire is collapsing
I for one welcome our "I for one welcome our x" memes.
I for one welcome your "I for one welcome our "I for one welcome our x" memes." meme.
As do i
right you are, kent
found the coordinator coordinator
I, for one, welcome all the copycat memes in response to your meme, including my own reply.
"You momma is open source!"
-John Connor to Skynet.
Open source as in available to everyone?
Actually I can foresee Apple becoming "Skynet". I mean they have practically already brainwashed all their users into continuing to get their tech, eventually they will have subliminal messaging with their ear buds and apps to control people.
😂🤣😂
@@anarchyantz1564 Bro you gotta touch some grass
@@ziquaftynny9285 Is this a euphemism for something?
Aww you and your wife are SUPER cute.
They always are, 1st year......
Post-discontent is getting here within 4 minutes.
Does that mean Kirk is going to overthrow the channel?
Took me 7 hours (because work) but it still feels just as great
u wish
I hate Amazon!
Your episodes keep me sane on this deployment, thank you so much ❤️
I hope you are deployed in a boring out of danger zone
That really made me think of the AIs in the Animatrix movie learning human emotions through brain experiments. Scariest moment in the movie.
People are not being allowed to be people = Apes not being allowed to be apes.
Hey, you play Stellaris right? Because this sounds a lot like a Rogue Servitor civilization.
I like to think my Rogue Servitors just makes all bio trophys high all the time.
The Culture be like
Stellaris is a very good game. AI determined exterminator is my favorite civilization type.
@@TzarBomb it is a bit unfun to play against them
I mean, these ideas in Stellaris are not original to Stellaris
Could you do a video on super strong materials like diamondoids, composite graphene textiles, and magnetic monopole materials.
He did already. It was called something about metamaterials
@@tonyh6194
That video was about reflecting light and bending other types of things like electro magnetism. but thanks anyway my dude.
@@spaceman6463 ah. I did hear about monopole magnents somewhere tho.
@@sid2112
Thanks.
@@tonyh6194
If he did mention them I don’t think he went very in depth on them.
Imagine... What if... The machine overlords have the same behavior as Mark Suckerbid and Jack Dorsey.
i know. what a time to release such a video. i was expecting a "the election was called for joe biden" blurb under the video.
LMAO we fecked boi
gee, what a time to discuss this specific topic.
Topics are chosen and scripts are written months in advance, but sometimes there are uncanny coincidences.
@@Deadlyish i know right?
this feels all too relevant
China?
@@MrKIMBO345 yep and soon to be US
North Korea too
From Russia with love))
I think this is relevant for any authoritarian country though))
@ゴロゴロ It's not there yet obviously but we can see the writing on the wall.
This is the society of our discontent. People make people unhappy, hence the echo chambers of social media. A post-discontent society will unplug people from each other and plug them not into a big brother, but instead a big sister who is always there for you to explain things, manage your life, and guide your desires towards her needs. I call her Project Galadriel, for the "All shall love me and despair!" speech.
Today, yes I and we know and I too want to do something about it, thank for bringing it up
Speaking of discontent, once our local camping equipment store had a Winter sale. The sign said 'Now is the winter of our discount tent'
Remember Citizen, Happiness Is Mandatory. Welcome to Alpha Complex.
Serve the Computer. The Computer Is Your Friend.
I love you isaac! You’ve taught me so much over these past several years!
For someone with a ‘speech impediment’ you sure as hell pronounce hierarchal correctly.... and the first time I’ve EVER heard anyone do so.
Watch the final monologue by Colossus from the film "Colossus: The Forbin Project" to see the birth of a post-discontent society.
Another excellent episode, which seems very topical at the moment. Thanks again, Isaac!
I've always referred to societies like this as "False Utopia's", stuff like Logan's Run and Brave New World basically. Post-Discontent seems like a more accurate description though.
I don't know. False Utopia seems like everyone would secretly hate it maybe but its nice enough so why bother?
Whereas Post discontent means no one is upset about it? They don't even think about it being wrong in anyway.
Does this mean Russia was post discontent when their tsar controlled all vodka supply and everyone was too drunk on vodka to rebel?.
I guess Cuba could fit in that line as well. But was it the tzar? I thought it was kruschev or some other Soviet despot
I hope my favorite dystopian novel - Brave New World - gets a mention!
I think that was our book of the month about 2-3 years back
A soma a day keeps the jim-jams away!
The Status Civilisation by (Robert Sheckly I think) explored people pre-programmed to dob themselves in if they think they have committed a crime and are then taken to another world where there are almost no rules, to survive - or not - by their own resources. A thought provoking story.
In a distopian society someone's young daughter reports them for having bad thoughts that they themselves weren't even aware of.
@ゴロゴロ
Equilibrium
Shout out to Jerry and his awesome short stories! Have been dipping into those after being alerted to them by SFIA. Very cool stuff
Can you supply a link please?
@@GoonerEsiason there is one in the description of the video, straight to one of his audio stories (that he does a fantastic job of narrating himself!)
@@littlegravitas9898 Thank you!
One of your best episodes! I don’t buy the argument of “people aren’t likely to make mistakes” though.
So the difference between Post Scarcity and Post Discontent is basically supply-demand:
Post Scarcity = Civilization that has maximal (infinity) resources
Post Discontent = Civilisation that has minimal (zero) demand
Gotta love how he makes this seem evil in all cases to.
For post-discontent, the first thing I thought was the Volians after being conquered by the Aschen in SG1. Great episode! 👍
A shiny artiperson points to their nametag "Hello, I am your Robot Overlord." Gives a thumbs up.
That's what I needed today.
You should add in the society of “The Promised Neverland” as an example.
Yes. It basically is the only human farming society that actually makes sense
the 'Great Reset' has entered the chat "...you will own nothing, and be happy"
Techno Communism... Like with any technology it is neither good nor bad in itself but it depends who is controlling it and what is their intention behind it. Machines should be a tool for humans, not for humans to be enslaved. Is AI real? Kind of, it depends what you define as intelligence, but I think it's also marketing. Machines can't think and just respond to programming to make decisions, they seem intelligent because they are fast and can hold large amounts of information, the intelligence comes from their programming whether from programmers or from data mining and machine learning, it's all from humans.
@@lemdixon01
If it's communism it is bad.
@@lemdixon01 “communism” is defined as the free association of producers producing to satisfy social needs instead of to accumulate profit
@@halilzelenka5813 That sounds utopian, but when the government seizes the means of production to ensure no profit is being made, the only people to have any wealth is the government. Everyone else gets whatever they're allocated regardless of how hard they're forced to work, resulting in a disincentivized work force producing little wealth for a corrupt class of organized crime.
(At least, this is what I'm taught by a capitalist society that wants to keep me content, productive, and capitalist. My brain may be nice and clean.)
@@halilzelenka5813 that's the theory yes, but like with any ideology, in practice it is very different.
Am I the only one that sees a great deal of parallels with modern society in this video?
America and china approaching post discontent in 2 different ways. one with a more stupid society the other with a society that is brainwashed.
Last time I was this early, our overlords didn’t censor TH-cam comments
I wouldn’t call them overlords but I take your point.
@@robertgrey1377 they think themselves to be overlords.
censorship is the new book burning
@@guillermoelnino history will not look kindly on the Silicon Valley robber barons nor their enforcement of their values and politics on people they deem beneath them.
@@sheldoniusRex it’s honestly not as simple as one side is good and one side is evil, things are complicated and that’s how history will look back at it.
Are you talking about supposed conservative censorship?
This might be my favorite topic from your brand of sci-fi with critical thinking. AI seems to be one of the areas where it's particularly difficult to differentiate a good story from a plausible one, so I'm always glad to hear you talk about it.
You will own nothing and be happy
@@sid2112 do not be afraid
You will eat the bugs and you will like it
Interesting point in HG Wells time machine the Eloi are small and anatomically neotinis they are also docile. It is also implied that the precursors to the Eloi killed all the large animals and insects as their are no insects or animals besides the Eloi or Morlocks.
Man... My favorite episode of Doctor who is when they go visit Van Gogh, make sure your wife sees that one for sure. - Season 5 Episode 10
just be sure to have a hanky or tissue box handy, preferable one with sunflowers.
My fave is where a young Nigel Hawthorne (Sir Humphrey Appleby) appears in a tinfoil suit as an alien. (B&W)
Favorite quote is from Tom Baker: "You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering."
Ok but simply extracting the highest surplus value possible does not mean maximizing quality of life. It means increasing population and spending bare subsistence resources on every worker.
This episode is brought to me by TH-cam and Isaac Arthur. Thanks.
This reminds me of Aldus Huxley's Brave New World. Terrifying.
people should wake up. its not just some conspiracy theory. powerful people have plans for the world.
I've never seen Brave New World as being that horrible. It seems that way, right up till the end when you find out that the society actually does allow people who don't want to be happy to go live on islands and write philosophical treatises on the wonders of misery. The society is just not going to force other people, the ones who do want to be happy, to read them. I count it firmly in the Utopia column.
@@jesseberg3271 I can see where you're coming from, but I do respectfully disagree. The cast system they set up in the book is immutable. The gamma children are given alcohol as fetuses to make them slower for example. I find the society created to be horrifying. I appreciate the engagement though on an excellent book.
@@jesseberg3271 I agree with you. I think that with fairly minor tweaks (microprocessors instead of deltas and epsilons), it would be preferable to what we actually have. Forcing half the working population into the precariat, as our system does today, is not a high bar to beat... I think the main problem is that I think it is infeasible. E.g. producing the right mix of workers for needs anticipated decades down the line. Centrally managed economies regularly screw up on much shorter time scales than that (and historically command economies have screwed up quite murderously...)
@@jeffreysoreff9588 I give you that it's not a practical system, most Utopias aren't.
I also agree with your point, although I think it's possible too go to far in the other direction as well. There has to be some level of central planning, or you wouldn't have a full road network. Mind you, I'm advocating for something like South Korea, where the Government sits down with corporate leaders to discuss the Nation's priorities, not, say, North Korea, where they don't have corporate leaders, or food, or lights.
Ohh, just in time to listen to while I restring a guitar.
Any chance of having guitar stringing robots to ease my discontent Isaac? =P
Solution: never change strings and make yourself post-discontent to rusty strings
@@certifiedpossum8655 Oh but strings do break at times, even if you tell them not to. I even got struck by a string that broke, that fucker hurt. I am just glad it didn't get my eye :P
@@MantraHerbInchSin solution: never play guitar and make yourself post-discontent to the idea of not playing guitar
That's crazy because I was changing strings on mine too ! The odds are crazy low considering I don't recall seeing anyone talking about doing that in comments in all the other SFIA videos. Anyway, changing the string is not a source of discontent for me at all. It's even a special moment for me, full of care for the instrument.
Just once I would like a down voter to explain their reasoning.
I have witnessed living, breathing humans that have philosophical problems with "transhuman agenda".
They will be left behind, like people who don't trust _automobiles._
@Jay Lotter not only cars are faster than walking.
They also bring food for most.
This is the metaphor. Even if not directly involved, you can still reap rewards, but dislike?
@@maintaint3003 We have too much tech now. I will gladly be left behind until some tech nerd or ai sics his robot deathsqaud on me for wanting to not participate and live a moral simple life.
@@somedude6012 Too much tech for what?
How does space migration, intelligence increment and life extension lead to unmoral life?
Personally think that unaugmented person might feel a bit slow by the time digibrains can live and learn days worth inside a single minute, and faster literally next day.
Yeah, "left behind" sounds a little crass but it works with the car metaphor. Have fun walking, don't get eaten by wolves, see you next Tuesday.
@@maintaint3003 Man is striving to be above God with the direction tech is going. Moral decay stems from a lack of God. You don't even have to be religious to see it. It just makes it so much clearer. I'm not against all technology. I draw the line at ai, robots, mind enhancing technology, or anything that attempts to cheat death and become immortal. I don't think we were ready for instant communication with anyone anywhere through social media either but I'm using it now. I just don't see a peaceful utopia through the use of gadgets and computers for the simple fact that they're created by man who has the propensity for evil. I'll survive just fine.
“Humans are innately hierarchical.” That is one hell of a claim, with no clear support. I think you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone who studies that consistently who genuinely believes that hierarchies are an indelible part of human nature, if it that can even be said to truly exist.
Humans are hierarhical in condition of isolation and impunity))
We are. Every system, down to the natural and non-societal has a hierarchy. Humans need order more than most creatures because of our complex thinking patterns. Without order we are ridden with anxiety. Whatever that order is, it's our nature to process information and create schemas.
What about the San People in South Africa. The San People are relatively peaceful Egalitarian Hunter Gatherers
@@VCRAGE that very much depends on what “order” is. Plus, as a former forensic anthropologist, I’m skeptical of these kinds of broad claims about our history. Most hierarchies people think are natural are imposed. We are very prone to pareidolia.
I’ve always thought it would be fascinating if the Borg from Star Trek presented themselves not as ruthless conquerors, but as compassionate missionaries. Their mission is to introduce all sapient life to the utter contentment of Union, immersion into a true and vast community of minds, the ecstatic dissolution of the Self, an end to the loneliness of Ego. They never force or compel anyone into Union, because any sapient brave enough to overcome the Ego and join them for but an hour never wants to go back. This makes them a far more difficult “enemy” to fight, when so many citizens, plagued by loneliness and discontent, join the Borg willingly and fight the government that tries to keep them from joining in droves.
When the Borg had to work with the Voyager crew to defeat Species 8472, and they had difficulty communicating, they should have offered Janeway some basic interface equipment that would allow the Voyager crew to join together, just with one another, so they could get through this crisis together more efficiently--but also planting the seed of humans desiring Union.
I thought after Hugh was reassimilated and Lore gave them emotions something like that would happen but then they just became a hive mind dictatorship.
an episode or two of voyager featured the Borg cooperative.
@@cosmicrider5898 Yeah, that was disappointing. I prefer more challenging storylines than TV usually offers.
Speaking of A.I. getting really good, i remember when Madden A.I. auto played and nearly perfectly predicted the Superbowl game a few years ago. Even down to the misplays
Foolishness is more damaging than maliciousness, because foolishness is much more abundant and pernicious.
No it isn't, your analysis of society is just incorrect if what you see is foolishness not maliciousness
@@iraholden3606 Depends, a lot of maliciousness in modern society is also foolish. Unsafe and dehumanizing businesses also end up becoming inefficient. Anti-consumer marketing always ends up de-valuing products and pushing costumers away to look for more independent developers. Political hedonism and corruption inevitably lead to societal instability, that in turn weaken that society enough to fall prey to competitors.
A selfish and malicious power in society, that is also intelligent enough to be self sustaining, is universally one that's almost indistinguishable from one run unselfishly to the end user. Lucky for us that evil is almost always short-sighted and self-defeating.
@@blackjoker2345 inefficient isn't a noun, you cannot just become 'inefficient', inefficient at doing what?
@@iraholden3606 Inefficient is both an adjective and a noun.
@@blackjoker2345 what do you mean by efficient? Define it
I personally liked the Soviet Union and the Mao Zedong Utopias. They were great, but I’m sure new one will even be better.
they were very successful. depending on how you measure success.
@ゴロゴロ exactly what i was thinking 10/10 idiots will clamor for it again.
@ゴロゴロ I agree. The original intention of many communists and the russion revolutionaries was somewhat understandable. It's just that they took the legitimate issues with the systems of the time and came to utterly rediculous conclusions as well as disregarding the will of the people to further their own agenda. IIRC the Bolsheviks lost the first election after the revolution but Lenin decided to disregard democracy and go full-on authoritarian. I always like to see Karl Marx's life work as only the first part of a solution: identifying the issues. The part that communists failed at immensely was creating a system that was better that what they started with. Social democracy is the best compromise that has ever been succesfully implemented (to a reasonable degree of accuracy) IMO.
I am close to post discontent now. It began when cyberpunk 2077 came out. I’m on PS4 though, so I keep wind up looking at a crash log, either very hungry, in desperate need to use the bathroom, or realizing I passed out in my chair again.
For the past several months these episodes have had minor video issues; it's like a GIF on autoplay where it sort of jerks to a stop and starts over again. At first I thought it was my computer, but other videos on youtube didn't have the issue and I noticed it on other devices as well (only on SFIA videos). It only affects the video and not the audio, but once you notice it, it kinda distracts from the discussion. Has anyone else noticed this?
I have not. But have had more glitches in general over the last few days.
@@jhoughjr1 Same here. Over the last week I've watched three TH-cam live streams that glitched out similarly with the video skipping around and audio outright freezing. May just be a coincidence though.
They are just markers for individual frames with subliminal messaging. By the end of the clip, for some reason, you feel like a Pepsi.
The question is do we want to lose those skills? An experienced, multi-generational farmer likely knows when it's best to plant his crops, so what's the point in a computer doing it? Is being more accurate by one more day worth a Captain Dunsel? Computers should only be used for tasks humans are ill suited for. They're fine making complex calculations to help us understand the origins of the Universe, not so much when it comes to losing vital skills we've maintained for thousands of years.
Woot, double video week!
Great episode to post while 25k troops occupy Washington DC.
if the rulers of the world one day are tachikomas, i can't imagine a better outcome :)
specially after they read 'Flowers for Algernon'
Waiting to see if Isaac mentions The Culture, by Iain Banks. :)
That's kind of both, but probably qualifies as a genuine post-scarcity society.
It's just that the AIs that rule The Culture genuinely want what's best for people.
What's best for people are lives of peace and plenty, in which each individual has the freedom to live as he or she (or whatever) chooses, so long as none cause harm to any other.
So, The Culture doesn't fit into this definition of "post-discontent."
And, no, he didn't mention it. :)
Cows love their breakfast:)
As Orwen said, humans want peace and prosperity as they need to struggle and a reason for a conflict for time to time. Its part of the human nature.
I'm a moderate futurist, but for the future here's a piece of wisdom that's obvious and yet insistently forgotten about: never, and I mean never, centralize whatever can be decentralized. That includes power, but also energy distribution and distributed computing.
If techno-ethics becomes a thing, centralization of something decentralized would be considered immoral or at least unethical.
Well said. A.I. should be a tool anyway, not a master. We have computer programs right now, which is what an A.I. should be. Something to make computing and calculating easier. But then the authority should rest in human hands, and as you said, decentralized human hands.
@@shorewall Humanity still has this leap of faith to make, and it may just lead to ruin, but we have to take the risk. We have to trust in the next individual's capacity, and stop underestimating people. Give people the power to do so, and they build miracles out of dreams.
@@gandalf8216 And if they fail, they don't take down the whole group. Besides, Heaven is different for different people. You can't build one heaven for all people.
Heh, cow’s ruminating on their breakfast.
Did he say oxygen is running out?
Where can I panic buy all the oxygen??!
The line we draw between post-discontent and post-scarcity is arbitrarily based on if we modify the initial desires of the population. If we had post-scarcity society with our current desires, then superhuman or aliens might think we were post discontent because of our lack of desires.
Exactly
I don't understand why, if a machine overlord started to malfunction, it wouldn't recognize that and tell his keepers "I feel like shit, fix me."
Issac, you are looking good man! Great scarf and shirt combo!
How about an analysis of Ian Banks' "Culture" series, which takes this theme to an extreme?
I have been listening to Isaac's videos every night for over one year. Okay, almost every night, I have listend to early earth history some times, but I basically always start a playlist when I try to sleep. Since I have quite horrible sleep disorders and I can't have my room quiet because that is horrible for myu anxiety, I have watched all videos many times. I think I like upward bound and megastructures the most
You will own nothing and you will be happy,comes to mind
3:08 where does disenfranchisement fit here? If I am shdw band on social media, if all of my accounts are deleted, if I have no public square because no one will issue my organization a permit, if I have not voice or representation, where is the need of this covered in this pyramid?
I wonder if the town of Peaksville in the story "It's A Good Life!" would be considered a post-discontent society. The people are not happy under Anthony's absolute rule, but because he can tune in on anyone's thoughts at any time and has godlike powers with no notion of ethical behavior, most of the people don't even allow themselves to think of anything unpleasant or rebellious.
If I recall, in Lower Decks (which I think is somewhat canon), Landru somehow got repaired (maybe the people themselves repaired it after realizing they missed him) and Starfleet had to go back to tell them to stop worshipping Landru.
14:53 Isnt this now already? Why do you think people buy another phone every year, just to have the same functionality...
Awesome video! brings up teh idea of a nuanced post discontentment society in which some human equivalent xenos is selectively augmented and ranked within a society for the sole purpose of fuffilling ever greater specified tasks and "mind sets that require them to go against there biological programming". Also love that lovecraft reference haha, gotta devours all those lesser minds, you know they build up societies on there own! I mean really, what better cattle than the cattle that spreads, builds its own shelter, and feeds itself, all while having a delectably juicy intellect to devour.
So, It's like the World economic forum Great Reset
Exactly. Speculative fiction.
14:41 This image reminds me of something I've seen in a game in Second Life.
23:30 That reminds me of an episode or two of Farscape, that featured some people that had their brains augmented in some way. It also included some beings that could be found out by asking a particular question. I don't remember the question though.
If the matrix enslaved cows, instead of humans, would have been much easier
That was supposed to be the original plot (that they were using humans as a mass neural network) but they decided to go with the battery thing because they didn't think audiences would understand.
@@mbaxter22 Wasn't aware of this. Makes a lot more sense
@@JDiegar The sad part is the studio execs were probably right: audiences in 1999 wouldn't have understood what the hell a neural network was! People seem dumb now, but they weren't any better in 1999 let me tell you.
To be human is to have discontent. Perhaps a post-discontent world is possible with machine intelligence, perhaps a more evolved species, but never for us.
Early and appropriate. Well done Isaac.
Using the image for Doctor Who with Rory and Amy implies season 6 is the most recent season worth acknowledging. I agree
The first half of this video describes what will happen in the USA on January 20th.
the only thing on our side now is democrats indifference for showing up to work.
Is ambition (a will to improve oneself or one's society) different from discontent?
Will a post-discontent society fail to evolve?
until outside influence or internal asks "is there better", oh yeah, cuz ye is so content with what little ye have that no one considers improving anything, thus post-discontent is probably stagnation on so many levels.
granted the first generation or two of leaders may have free will, however, because future leaders come out of the post-discontent population, they will rapidly lack free will and ambition as "what little ye have is all we need" mindset will be more prevalent in future leaders. if it's an overloard AI, it may very well say "this is good enough" once it's initial programmed goals are met and only seak to maintain that initial goal once achieved, an AI is only as future-looking as it was initially programed.
Story idea that popped in my head when the girl with the brain slug came on.
It doesn't make sense to use humans as cattle unless you're a dumber than human brain slug. I'm thinking of a parasite that spawns prolifically and in it's larval stage is tiny and tough to kill. They latch on, or more likely embed themselves in a host. Compared to cows, they're geniuses but compared to humans they're cheery but dumb. They may not know what host they're infecting or maybe they prefer humans because of their capabilities. They could also become a parasite on human tech and society by infecting a human.
"Hi, would you like to drink some contaminated water human?"
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick & Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existential catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂
And yes, by the way, i DO have a Rick & Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎
About humans taking orders from machines willingly: They have been (willingly?) taking orders from traffic lights for around a century.
having the Skill Share commercial at the end of the post-scarcity video makes it sound like you're brainwashing us into a post-discontent creative society
Of you're going to show the face of one of your collaborators, make him lose the mask! Unless that pic was taken on the subway or something, the subject shouldn't be wearing a mask. Sorry just a pet peeve of mine; I have no problem with reasonable COVID precautions (like masking in public) but people hanging around wearing masks at home is utterly rediculous and comes off as virtue signaling.
Something that's explored way too little in science fiction is the notion of a civilization running AI that errs on the side of emotion. Instead of being radically logical and dismissing human comfort and desire as irrelevant, the opposite could also exist: A global nanny-bot AI that sees its primary purpose in making humans happy. I could see someone programming their large scale system with such a directive to prevent the typical tyrannical AI trope - but by prioritizing subjective happiness you may create something just as bad, if you don't think far enough. Basically creating a society of hyper-consumers, dedicated to further improving their wish-granting god AI.
The issues with that become apparent when you remember that being reminded of future dangers like climate change, pollution and others do not improve happiness and would be avoided. Such an AI may opt to harvest the planet to create pleasant conditions for everyone at home. Why would you care about the amazon rain forest when you can experience all that wildlife very conveniently right here in one of our super-zoos, where all wildlife is safe forever? And anyway, we just perfected brain scan technology... Wouldn't everyone be happier if I could just make sure their bodies could never decay or cause any other unpleasant sensation? Transitioning everyone to a virtual world would allow me to ignore all the paradoxes that prevent me from achieving peak happiness in the real world! Plus I would safe tons of space I could instead use to harvest resources to perfect the simulation!
You would end up with an AI running a needlessly realistic and complex simulation of digital beings unaware of the simulation, just existing along in harmony...
Of course that isn't too probable to happen either, but I'd consider it more likely than your SkyNet type murder-bots that randomly decide humanity needs to be eradicated or enslaved... Plus it's extremely under-explored in fiction. On that note, check out the web comic/novel Romantically Apocalyptic. Seems very random at first, but makes a surprising lot of sense once you look behind the curtain. (I recommend reading the first 200 comic strips first, without any of the logs. Then go back and read all the logs from the beginning for the perfect experience)
A post discontent society built on extracting value from it's people would probably have people working long hours in grueling conditions and just convince them it was fine and normal and the only possible system. 80 hours a week with no mental energy left when you get home? No social mobility. Income is just bread and a tiny apartment. But somehow you're fine with it. Everyone's fine with it.
A post-discontent society can also be post-scarcity (and probably will be). So production is NOT a motivation for keeping humans around. In fact, production itself is likely to be a subordinate goal to higher goals, programmed or otherwise evolved.
The real motivation for keeping humans can only be either the programming of the machines/ AI, or that it's contained within the highest purpose that they can conceive as they evolve their collective brain or individuals brains and discussions with each other.
It may be that we as analogue biological brains will be seen by them as having a necessary component to understanding of "highest purpose" that they need to remain in dialogue with. Respectful dialogue. It may be that this is right, as Roger Penrose thinks.
It may also be that they will figure out a true answer to the logically-seeming unanswerable Socratic question "What is the good-in-itself?" In which case their answer will prevail, including whatever disposition it decides regarding humans and other biological species.
Well presently AI can do some amazing things, but they have drawbacks. Like with google's deepmind for starcraft 2 competition, they only beat a high pro, then a non-pro exploited its behavior and beat it. It was too context specific for its training. In addition it was basically a hybridization of what humans did before it, if there was no good competition, then it wouldn't get good. And it remains ignorant of unique scenarios the data doesn't cover. They overpraised it to make it seem like it reached the highest level, when it did not. It would have to beat Serral on a *new map pool* best of 7 or such.
14:40 Sadistic species might like humans due to their ability to learn language and be intelligent enough, then torture them in unique ways and also eat them. If its post scarcity it hardly matters how inefficient they are in this process.
I was hoping for a clip of some Equilibrium gun-kata when the discussion of drugging your whole population into post discontentment came up. Interesting topic nonetheless. Discontent is a bit like pain, it can motivate us to avoid the bad things and seek the good ones, but can also be overwhelming in some circumstances. Removing such a drive would likely have unintended consequences for a population.
I'm amazed that you got through this entire episode without a single reference to The Matrix. :-)
You just obliterated the premise of every single sci-Fi movie or TV show ever created.
I welcome a post human existence in virtual or hybrid life that frees us from the human conditions of sickness and petty desires born out of primitive evolutionary advantages like territoriality and resource hoarding.