What is Worker placement
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
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You're like the professor of board games - a tremendous depth of knowledge and the ability to explain clearly & smoothly. LOVE this channel.
Cheers JP. I do have an academic background and did lecture many years ago. But not on board games, I did military history and defence studies. That and 30 odd years in the hobby leans into the professorial tone :)
Worker placements is an action point system usually associated with:
1 - Action blockage
2 - Situational advantage/disadvantage when doing an action due the board state
3 - some workers can have different abilities
4 - varying number of action points (you can gain or lose workers)
I would argue that Paladins of the West Kingdom has more elements of worker placement than stated in this video.
1. Yes, there are only few central worker placement spots and most worker are used on your personal board BUT those central spots are much more powerful so thats mostly the first spots players "fight" for.
2. The game uses coloured workers and concerning the spots about 50% of your placed workers need to be the exact colour resp. purple.
And how do you get those workers?
2/3 of those workers come from the tavern cards (the other 1/3 from the Paladin cards) which are selected from a CENTRAL pool. So the worker placement interaction indirectly comes from you being able to prevent the other players to use specific spots by taking a tavern card that provides those workers. other in other words: in order to be able to use specific personal spots you need something from a central pool.
There are ways to mitigate that mainly by having purple workers or getting coloured workers as benefit from other actions.
So to me that's a further evolution of worker placement by
a) coloured workers add theme as long as players dont just call them by their colour but what they actually are
b) reducing the frustration potential that 100%-blocking-worker-placement games have
c) reducing potential downtime of rethinking your plan as at least a part of your actions cant be prevented.
Furthermore, most personal board actions make to take something from or put something to the central boards so the interaction comes from putting/getting that first.
What some players call lack of interaction compared to other games, I would partly disagree with mainly because the tavern card drafting has the exact same level of interaction and effect on the game as blocking a spot does have.
Drafting cards isn't worker placement, and action selection on your own board using a token called a worker isn't worker placement. Like i agree there is more interaction in Paladins than many people state. And the worker placement element is only the kings favours cards, 5 of them. The other element, where you place buildings to score them and get a bonus is not worker placement either.
It's 5 slots, which don't activate until the midgame. That's it. Rounds 1-3 have zero worker placement in them
@@3MBG
Well, with a small change of game material, the tavern cards would be worker placement spots. ;-)
1. Add a central board called tavern which has 5 available spots (tavern tables). Depending on the number of players, only some of them are used (players+1). After #players spots have been used (=workers hired in the spot), the tavern closes so the last available spot cant be used this round.
2. Draw cards or pull from a bag or whatever to determine what workers sit on each table (4 each)
3. Every players gains an additional white worker at the beginning of the round in addition to the two from the Paladin card.
As the tavern spots would be by far the best, every player would send one worker to the tavern as first action which in fact would be worker placement.
There might be a rare occasion when one of the other central worker placement spots would be more efficient than a tavern spot. But that would just meant that the player would visit the tavern as second action. Maybe that might even improve the game (one more interesting decision).
From gameplay perspective the game would stay exactly the same about 95% of the cases, but suddenly it's no drafting but worker placement.?! ;-)
I just want to highlight that a totally different mechanism (=therory) can lead to the exact same effect (=practice) gameplay-wise.
Where is the edge of either being a worker placement game or being an action selection game?
What if an expansion adds a number of new central spots?
Another point:
Do you really mean that referring to rule #3 workers need to be returned to the PLAYER to be reused somehow to classify worker placement?
In Paladins all workers somehow are a one-time use (each Paladin comes with 2 servants to help and you hire guys in the tavern just for one round). The next round it's completely different workers.
I would argue that a "worker drafting" at the beginning of the round still makes for a worker placement game.
In fact I would like more games with an interesting worker selection process at the beginning of the round other than having your fixed (sometimes growing) "family" (like in Agricola and Viticulture).
All in all, hybrids and innovations is what I love about the hobby.
So I think that in 10 years or so it will be much more difficult to clearly classify a game (examples: Lost Ruins of Arnak, Dune Imperium, Tyrants of the Underdark, Scythe).
Hybrids is the future?! ;-)
Good stuff J. I was just thinking about this series over the weekend and wondered if it would come back. Glad it did. I'm not the target audience for the explanation but hearing what makes worker placement unique gets me excited to play some more of a mechanic I'm typically not excited by.
These are tricky videos. Making theme is relatively easy. Thinking up the right words before you hit record is the hard part. They always need a good long think.
Teacher to teacher that was a great explanation (all my students wish I could be so succinct). No surprise that Ms. Teffy is in detention as she seems like a person whose straight talk and inability to suffer fools would occasionally ruffle some feathers.💛
Cheers. And i am totally showing her this comment in the morning
Love this style of video Jay. Keen to see more of it
Thank you so much for telling us this! I was wondering what it meant! I would hear this all the time!!
Many thanks for a clear explanation of the worker placement mechanism. According to BGG, I own 15 worker placement games, but I don’t think they all qualify under your definition (like Scythe).
Very informative video. I'm currently designing a board game that is kind of like a worker placement game. It does fit two of the requirements but in my game, the 'workers' are not low in number. There's quite a few of them.
As long as the number is finite, that's fine. Architects of the west kingdom has 16 IIRC, but they are still considered a scarce resource, because they are capped at that number.
@@3MBG Ah of course. That makes sense in that there are limited numbers of them. Thank you. Actually, Ive just decided to reduce the 'workers' in my game down to eight. It will be a rather simplistic game compared to other worker placement games. And likely a short duration as well. Hopefully, it might appeal to people who like simple, quick games in between their main (complex) games and to kids too. Sort of like an entree before the main course.
I guess then the key for you is the worker recovery mechanic, how do they come back to hand. And the scarcity of spots and how they are used. Games like Energy Empire have around 6 or 7 workers, so 8 isn't a crazy amount.
I love Board Game Basics 💯
Dwellings of Eldervale is my favorite worker placement game :)
Need to try that one.
Absolutely love your videos! Inspired me to start my own board game channel but not sure where to start.
Start with what you know. I did spirit island for my first video, remade it 4 times until it felt right.
@@3MBG Thank you, I will do something I know then :)
More videos like this, please.
I'd like to, and probably will once i'm not juggling a toddler all day every day, lol
@@3MBG bro, post video please of you juggling a toddler. Sounds like a whole new game genre🤣
Lol, that would be funny. But yeah, currently the stay at home parent for a small person, which makes doing the research and filming of these sorts of vids much harder. I used to write them all on the bus ride to and from work.
Very well explained thanks. One caveat I find is I when the pieces aren't 'workers'. Dominant species is a good example. While it fits your description of a worker placement and people call it that, I will always call such a game 'action selection' instead and sometimes feel that the term worker placement is slightly overused.
Action selection and Worker placement are very close in so many ways. As mentioned, Scythe is action selection and ive seen people call it worker placement
If 'action selection' also includes games where the actions aren't contested, wouldn't that be even more overused? How do you tell between that and contestable actions like in WP games? 'Action contestion'?
I like your "homework" assignment. :)
'Teffy in Detention.' haha. She was framed!
I dunno, she is very very naughty :)
A Feast For Odin smashes the second "rule" but that is kinda the whole point of the game also :P
like how architects smashes the 3rd :)
@@3MBG With 20 workers to start with, Architects hardly feels like you have limited workers. Usually, I find myself retrieving my workers not because I'm running low but rather because of the guardhouse penalty during a black market reset. Also, besides the black market (and you can maybe argue the building action though it acts as a timer), there's really not a scarcity or contest of placement locations. Architects feels more of an action selection with compounding benefits than a WP game to me. It lacks the tension of, "#$@&, you took the spot I was planning to take this round and now where should I go with this one worker I have left."
Good stuff!
Let me throw something at you (with friendly intention for mutual academic enrichment )
What do you think about this:
I don’t consider The Artemis Project to be an action-space selection game.
I consider it to be an auction game that uses meeples as bids that are placed on spaces that represent rewards (Auction Space Selection??)
Here’s why:
Firstly, there are obviously various types of actions out there, but most action space selection games predominately feature “gain 2 resources” as an action. Superficially (vs. mechanically) this can look identical to receiving a reward for having moved to a space (movement, being the action).
In action space selection games, the placement of a meeple onto a space is not the action itself, but a public representation of the selection of an action (hence, action space selection). Generally, that selected action would be performed during that same turn.
In The Artemis Project, 1.“worker placement” and “action resolution” are performed as rounds in separate phases. Also, 2. the interaction between placed workers in a single action space/set of spaces may alter the quality of the action resolution. As a result, the placement of a meeples is an investment into an action...
An investment is still a selection, but the placement of the meeple onto a space doesn’t represent having selected the action, it represents a players decision of where to INVEST.
Bidding is investing during a phase where multiple players have the option to also invest.
I believe the two “worker placement phases” are in fact a bidding phase and an award resolution phase. (Aka an auction and a collection phase).
Why then, would I distinguish the “gaining of two resources” as a reward, and not an action?
1. It’s a reward regardless. Because investment + opportunity = winners & loser(s).
2. It’s then just a question of, “Is the reward 2 resources, or the action of gaining 2 resources.” They’re superficially identical, and arguably arbitrary mechanically.
I choose to consider the reward to be “2 resources” because it’s simpler and more consistent with the auction theme.
So that’s it. :) I’d love to hear y’all’s thoughts! Agree, disagree, don’t like my explanation, all feedback is constructive 😁
I’m actually compiling an tabletop game encyclopedia called, “The Game Theory of Everything.”
I believe that by having an internally-consistent dialect of terms and definitions, we can play harder, explore deeper, and design better as a community 🤙🏽
That's a pretty damned compelling argument. Let me know when your book is coming out too
Thank you J, I’m flattered someone thinks I make any kind of sense 🤣.
I’ll absolutely keep you posted. And hey, if you ever get the itch to pick apart some rough drafts, holla at your boy!
I absolutely love this!! I look forward to upcoming videos in this series. But why is Teffy in detention?
So many reasons. :)
I love worker placement. Had never heard of CAYLUS until my girlfriend got me 1303 as a present. It's amazing.
I also picked that up recently. Hence it being in the opening shot :)
So, what other topics/mechanics should we look at in this series. Or what is your favourite worker placement game?
Genre that frustrates me, oh dear, that would be competitive trick taking. That would mostly be me just screaming at the monitor though
Obvious possible mechanics which are genres of game include Card/Tile Drafting and Deck building? Favourite worker placement game is probably Viticulture with Tuscany, but have always had a soft spot for the original Manhattan Project.
I just picked up 2 minutes to midnight Graeme, tried that one?
@@3MBG I kickstarted it, but sold it (or traded?) without playing.
I would like to see a video on games that prominently use a tech tree.
I like the worker placement in Above and Below. There are specialists and workers need to sleep.
Great break down of a stalwart genre! Also, I hope that Watch Mojo vid gets taken down.
Cheers. I now have the most upvoted comment on it, so hopefully some people see it and tune them out and come over here
Edit the last blackboard shot: "whose" instead of "who's" (which says 'who is').
Noted, if i could i would.
Ameritrash next pls :3
Did that in "the different types of board games" video on this channel
Bus does not meet your definition. Those workers are gone!
True, but its an example of what could be called "proto-worker placement".
I really don't think until you get to Caylus, or possibly keythedral, that the genre really starts to form. BGG lists bus as worker placement though
I haven’t played one yet (waiting for a certain Mars based one to come out) but would a COIN game count? Seems like it checks several of these boxes? But I’m definitely a novice here!
Interestingly, no. Because you don't get a direct benefit for placement. COIN are what i would consider area control games (having more units than someone else in an area is advantageous) , action selection (picking types of actions to take from a set list) and Card Driven (Cards have actions and events on them that determine what happens in the game)
Makes sense
I love On Mars
I think you could upgrade your recorded audio without too much effort. It would help a lot.
I have, its just that I'm using the mic on the camera for a few of the last "to camera" videos to save time. It's worse than the lapel mic i have, but doesn't require anywhere near as much editing. Once baby is a few months older, i'll go back to the lapel mic. But right now, time is a huge factor for me.
@@3MBG Please take your time Sir. Great channel and as a dad I so get it
Great explaination! But your grade is lowered since you went almost double the allocated time.. :)
See top line of the video description. Only our reviews are locked to 3 mins. Doing every format that way would be bad :)
@@3MBG Great stuff! :D
@@3MBG Have to say though
(with tongue firmly in cheek) a lot of your 3 minute reviews are getting closer to 4 mins... :-)
3:00 to 3:59 is the rule. It's ABOUT 3 minutes, not 3 minutes :)
Also, there is 10 seconds of intro and 8 of outro. Which while technically part of the video, also aren't part of the review.
Let me get this straight... your wife has a baby and then she gets detention?!? 😉
Hahahaha, she made the background, she put herself in detention because shes a serial offender at being naughty :)
Aw! Kind of disappointment to see this series ended after two episodes
They are a lot of work, i want to get back to them but that will be after my girl is full time at kindergarten