Teen Hawk? Could be difficult to work with, "Go and clean your props!" "You're not the boss of me!" ;) I'm reminded of something I heard on a TV show when someone said they've only got from the ages between 3 and 8 in regards to teaching their child about the world, because before 3 they don't understand what you say, and after 8 they don't care what you say.
@@PowerScissor Does it take that long? I thought per the experiment they did way back when, your brain would flip it right side up in 24 - 48 hours the first time, and significantly more quickly thereafter. It's been a little while though, so I could well be wrong.
@@ledchickenfpv7164 That study was continuous. In FPV, you fly a few minutes at a time and take the goggles off. Then you go about your day. If you fly 12 packs each day, that's not even 1/24 hours every day. So your brain wouldn't "flip" since the majority of the time it would be getting a normal image....I would assume. I doubt anyone would ever want to go through the frustration to find out the answer.
It's a MediumHawk. Duh 💁🏻♂️. And you're totally right about the antennas. I just folded them forward for testing but it should have been dealt with in the canopy.
I built a custom 4" quad two summers ago using a slim frame and brother hobby motors. It's a total joy to fly!!! Maybe 4" deserves more attention from manufacturers?
I have been flying 4 inch drones for two years as they are mental fun. You'll laugh but my fav 4 inch is my Eachine Falcon 180 which runs on 4s and has survived many big crashes with just a few standoffs that hold the plates together needing to be replaces.
love love love my 4" RotorX atom build that I finally finished last week. lol. ...took me years to get back to that build and I can't get enough of it. looking to get a 4" babyhawk now.
Hi jb I've been 4 inch for around 6 months and I definately race better with my current piloting ability and yes it's quieter down the local park which is a big deal because we're band from flying local parks. Sideshow bob Uk
That extra mass makes a huge difference on crashes. I can't believe some of the crashes I turtle and fly off from that would surely require repairs on my 5"ers. I'm sold on 3" for that part only. I only race and never need hd footage, so I see no reason for a 5" anymore. Batteries are cheaper, charging faster, travelling with a fleet easier...it's a no-brainer
The 349 flys like a toy. No way gonna keep up with a real racing quad with a good pilot. The one I flew was no impressive. I keep wondering why the hype?
More uptilt - does that camera have the ability to rotate the image 180 degrees (like flip+mirror)? That might allow you to mount it upside down so the plug wouldn't be in the way anymore.
I like it, I'm building an acrobrat with 1606/4100kv. I asked E Max a question about my motors about a week ago and they responded that they would run 6s tuned properly. I'm pretty sure they weren't talking about the 4100 kv, but that was their reply. Thanks JB!
I love my 4" X frame. I fly 4S RDQ packs and it's fast enough to get attention from blocks away. The SpeedX GR1507 Motors takes it to 78MPH into and 80 with the wind if memory of Andy RC's radar speed run is correct. If 100 MPH is the "legal" speed limit, I think it's great for someone a year into acro and FPV.
Saw a couple of other reviews on this and wondered why they didnt mention the antennaes sticking out like that. Glad you mentioned it :) And your idea for a fin to make turtle mode possible, could double as an antennae tube.
I wish I had extra money to be a patron again. You really do deserve it. You make the most knowledge filled and entertaining content of all my subscriptions. I do use affiliate links even if I haven't just watched a video. I don't think it'll compete unless Turner or vanover are behind it but I'm still getting one just because I have 95% of all the Emax quads. The hawk 5 is what I use to race multi GP with, just has a diatone stack and Xing motors though. Good video
Joshua the Dronestar’s here in Texas we have been running the Pucet from FlightClub for years. It’s a 4” quad with a canopy. 4” quads are awesome but like you are pointing out they are limited
I have a 4" reverb clone, probably my favorite quad! AUW around 290g, 20x20 stack, 1806 2700kv, gemfan 4052 & 4S 850mah which works great, decent flight times & plenty of power. It's all about cubic disk loading, heavy stuff goes faster & speed scales with size... My 4" reverb is loaded like a 5" with a gopro (600g) so behaves much like one but scaled down slightly, although it's mass is made up by more motor & lipo rather than having a HD camera onboard so it's comparatively more powerful, feels light & thrusty, pretty quick but not ground breaking by any means, very nimble & arrests momentum well. Believe it or not a 600g 5" is still pretty light relatively speaking but also a good size & weight for carrying some momentum & covering ground. My 3" flies on a pretty similar setup to the 4", drawing similar current but with smaller (faster) motors, frame & props. It's only slightly lighter (most seem to be around 250g) but has much less actual disk area (3" has only 56% of the 4" disk area, size is not linear). When looking at cubic disk loading, a 4" @ 290g is 49.6 oz per square foot where a 3" @ 250g is 101.3 oz, the 3" is twice as heavy. This is exactly why most 3" are so fast & heavy feeling these days, also why they carry so much momentum. If we observe cubic disk loading we can design quads in any size category that have the desired flight characteristics & speed envelope (the latter always scaling with size), right now most 3" quads are more like scaled down versions of DRL's 180mph 5" (1kg+). Fixed wing guys have been doing this for eons. I spent some time when getting into RC testing wing loading speed & handling characteristics with ghetto depron foam wings, building similarly loaded models that were identical plans in different sizes etc. Normal wing loading numbers were absolutely useless when scaling models but cubic wing loading was indeed entirely accurate & a great way to predict how a fixed wing model would fly. From my own experimentation with multi's while observing these rules & observing the flight characteristics of various setups over the years I see the same logic is totally relevant to multirotors. It's actually very easy to plan a random size quad & predict it's flight characteristics because we have quite a vast pool of knowledge now built up from playing around with various sizes & weights, cubic loading helps to tie all this data together in a sense.
yea i wouldve done something with the antennas too, When i started bulding these things i bult a 5inch and then a 3 inch and from the beginning after alot of consideration i thought the 4inch just was a good blend of size/weight/ leverage from the motors... but i kinda avoided it because of the lack of choice in hardware and support for the size in general as far as how many people are running it and i can benefit from their info or experiences they share
Usually flying the Iflight IH4 on the Iflight Succex Micro F4 35a Stack with Iflight Tachyon 1408 motors with of course TBS Crossfire, Crossfire Nano and Caddx Turtle. I'm a senior citizen whose just reached intermediate level thanks in great part to your videos; just wanted to add post, my first actually. The IH4 flies very well, like a 5" and can still get into those gaps nicey too, anyway; Keep doing what your doing, Thanx J.
You’re right about smaller quads being more durable. I crashed my new upgraded turbobee with the 4200kv motors into a metal light poll yesterday, bounced back about 10 metres. Apart from the props being bent, and after bending it back into shape several times from other crashes the frame still looks good, apart from some minor scratches. Also some of the screws had come loose, didn’t realise and one motor came off later, luckily I had the spares with me, was going again after a few minutes of checking every screw. That little beast looks great, as someone said turn the camera upside down or make a small bracket to get it to clear and get more angle. Great review J B.
John Grzeskowiak , omg, no, not the corvette. So sorry to hear that mate. Like I said, it was only an iflight turbobee, which is small, so nowhere near the mass to keep it going on, it just bounced off like it was almost nothing.
Joshua Bardwell I still love my babyhawk so much i’ve just got a tarsier 4K camera for it so I’m still under the 250g . I tested the camera fpv on it now and OMG it’s really clear. Very happy with the camera. Still waiting on hardware to finish and fly👌😃
I have the original Babyhawk r and swapped the arms to 2.5 inch. It flies terrible. It has massive oscillations as you would expect from a damaged prop. But I changed all props and checked the arms and the motors. Everything is good. I can't find the problem.
i feel like ive seen a guy racing a 4" against 5" in a lot of races, and actually beat a majority. you can make a 4" a rocket if you know what youre doing.
yea.... as an owner of this... tie the vtx antenna down at the very least. i chopped it in the very first crash. didnt have any extra right angle mmcx antennas either.
The battery plug that comes with this quad is xt30. For the emax 1606 motors that comes with the quad can draw ~25Amp each. The battery that is provided with it supposed to be able to produce more than 68Amp constantly. Is this the right battery plug for this quad?
Wait wait wait... Josh......... your not a lawyer?!!! I’m outta here. Lol kidding buddy. Another amazing video. You’ve not only inspired me to get into fpv and already on my 2nd quad on the way; but you’ve saved my ass being lost in beta flight many a time. Keep up the amazing work buddy!
Stu from uav futures flew many 4" quads. Maybe more than any other size. I don't know why 5" is all over racing but I think 5" popularity has a bit to do with freestyle and flying with gopros. Without that load 4" has been able to hold its own for a while. But maybe because of popularity the 5" sector got a ton of prop and Frame development so maybe it's been a little behind for a short time
Great review. Please note the Diatone he compares to is the gt-r369 not gt-r349 it’s basically a stretched x, 6s version of the 349. 3 = 3 inch, 6 = 6s, 9 = model year. Will we see a review of the gt-r369?
to have more degrees on the caméra, loose the screw ont the left (the side where is the plug of the caméra.), and you have 2mm more to move it, and go up. only one screw ;)
Been flying 4 inch for years an din silverware brushless too, goes fantastic and nice to fly but it IS a little more intimidating to people in the park..
Actually i'm a 5" freestyler. My first other freeestyler - after a short and unfortunately trip in the world of the whoops - will become the GepRC CinePro 4K. But this 4" Babyhawk looks very well and interesting, and i can imagine that this one will get my next copter after the CinePro :-) Thanks vor your great video, i love them. Best regards from germany ;-)
I've been working on an open source 3" frame with an Acrobrat-style suspension. A few months ago, I decided to cut some longer arms, stick those same Emax 1606 motors on, and see how 4" works with these "little" motors. I'm overbuilt a bit. A heavy VTX, a heavy, 5" 6S capable 20x20 ESC. I'm up at 270g with a Turtle and a 650 4S. I'm confident I could get it under 250, but now with the beefy components I had on hand. I was hoping that 4" would a good option for a 250g build. I was hoping I'd see longer flight times. Maybe it could be a good HD freestyle build, but maybe the big props could cruise more efficiently? Maybe it'd be possible to do some 250g long range? That part didn't work out. The gentlest modern props I could find are the HQ 4x3x3. Sure, it cruises fast with something like 15% throttle, and that makes it feel a lot different than my 3" build, but my flight times aren't much longer. Cruising time is similar. I might get almost an extra minute of fairly aggressive freestyle, but it isn't anything to write home about. That said, I really like the 4". I carry a 1306 3" at about 225g and the 1606 4" at about 270g. I prefer to fly the 4" build. It just feels more like a 5" freestyle quad. The biggest bummer is the variety of available props at 4"!
I think it needs to lose 20g so that the auw is 150g, then an 850mah battery at sub 100g would make for a great sub 250g package. Lighter motors and props could get it below 250g weight.
Been flying 4" exclusively for past 7 months.. And its honestly the best. Cheaper parts like the 20amp mamba stack cheaper batts 850mah and 1080mah 4s.. Its a win win for me. On the pratcice track i out pace alot of my buddies on 5"
For more uptilt you could probably solder the camera wires directly to the camera, so you remove the plug that blocks tilting more. Not sure it's worth the effort though.
I've been saying this for so long!!! Finally!!! 😍😍😍 However that stack though... Uggg emax 20x20 has failed me so many times... The 30x30? Wonderful. The 20x20, I have yet to have a good experience
Hi Josh, I have looked at 4in. Quad, I was thinking about it Armattan gecko 4in. , But at the time I wasn't comfortable with building it. Thanks again for the information on this 4in. Quad. Emax may have a Great new Quad.
I think that battery is a little bit small. Not sure what your thoughts on this are? I use an 850mAh 4S on my diatone 3 inch. Surely a bigger battery would be better suited to 4 inch?
I'm pretty sure Jessika Dronehart / Rotor Girl has been touting 4" race quads for a while. I can see how you would benefit changing the size for some race courses.
Funny thing when I'm building a 4 inch quadcopter just this week I just thought there's just no parts for it. My first quad is a 4 inch and literally uses a 5 inch motor so that's why it's a pig. But just this week I'm shopping for a motor and decided that a 1506 to 1606 is the best and there's only 2 motor option around, the gemfan 1606 and the emax 1606.(ended up going with the 1606). And the battery im looking for is a 1000mah 90c+ battery... Only a few battery option came up. Settled with a 1050 3s 75c and the battery just sags it NEEDs a 95c atleast. It's fast though. And lifts a gopro session for freestyle. The best 4 inch prop BTW that's a must is the lumenier 4x4x3 v2 it's light and have the most thrust and stability than all the 4 inch props I've used.
I like the 4inch size and i did make a custom one but prop selection held it back for me! Heres hoping we get a new plethora of 4 inch props. Also not a fan of the stack prefer stacks with 3mm screws.
I think this is the sweet spot.... And really want to try a 4 inch. I was last time looking on banggood and was wondering why there aren't any 4inch bnf.... And here it is 👍
Thanks Joshua, now I'll be hopefully able to sell my HQprops 4*4.3*.3 which I accidently bought instead of 5inch because your video might convince more pilots to buy 4inch quads :D
Whenever you are showwing any props I wonder why noone tried multiple blade props ? I remeber when my bo said try noctua cooling sollutions because it was more efficient and more quiet then the rest And so I wonder what if we instal noctua shape/type props on drone and of course devrease rotation speed ? would it be quiet ? would it be flyable ? Are you able to do test and record it if not done already ? :>
Finally a sane reviewer that is mystified at the complete lack of antenna mounting. Maybe Emax is getting into selling 3d printers and they can come preloaded with stl files for printing a proper mounting solution.
Could you talk about the theory of a 3 inch octocopter more in depth than on the Rotor Riot episode? I designed a frame in cad, but im debating wether its worth it to build or if i should just save my money and stick to 5 inch
That face :39 lol!! Thank you for this video. Would it be a good idea to strap a mobius 1 or small hd camera on this to get freestyle footage? I was going to get the kopis 2 rotor riot editon but I feel like i need a much more robust quad which is why I want to go smaller, but no less than 3". Honestly im overwhelmed with all the different options...
I don’t know what to think, as I’m not a racer. It would have been nice to hear your take on this quad as a freestyle ripster, as you pretty much rip the Bardwell estate daily! I personally think these motors will show up on all kinds of 3” frame builds! I’m on the fence with this quad, as I do have the Hawk 5, and the Babyhawk R3, both of which are fantastic quads! I just don’t know where this fits in.
I wouldn't even consider this for freestyle IMO as it doesn't have HD recording and isn't really set up to carry a GoPro. When you are down in the 2" or 3" size, the lack of HD can be forgiven because the quad is so small you can fly it places where a 5" just couldn't go. So you compromise on HD recording. In the 4" size, that's not true (IMO) so the lack of HD recording rules it out as a freestyle main.
Joshua Bardwell - Aside from the HD recording, which I really couldn’t care less about, and more about the quad flight, would this make a decent freestyle quad or is the power to weight ratio to much like flying a frisbee?!!
I'm looking at getting into a beginner race drone and or free style. I'm pretty good at line of sight and fpv whoop. But I want to move out side. What do you suggest for a beginner. A ready to fly. I have a spectrum controller..
I dunno, is it really more nimble than a lightweight 5” racer? I have a couple of 5”, a Diatone GT R249+ (2.5”) and a whoop and the 2.5” is plenty fast enough that it feels like there’s no meaningful step in between that and a 5” - especially when running on 4s I was shocked at how comparable the speed is to a 5” when I ran it the first time - and no, I’s never consider running it indoors, it’s to fast to even run in my back yard.
The 3" BabyhawkR tried to save too much weight. The arms are so thin I broke mine pretty much every session I had, even in light crashes. I don't fly it now because I'm sick of it breaking. My 5 inch, much heavier doesn't break often on hard crashes.
I've been flying a 4 inch for about a year. The biggest issue is a lack of decent frames. I like my 3 inch computers better though as they are under the 250g mark which might be helpful with regulations etc
Hi Joshua, I have a baby hawk r pro 2.5 inch prop and i was wondering if its fine to fly 4s. If not, what is a good throttle scale limit to put so that it won't blow up? I just bought a bunch of 850mah 4s tattu batteries and I want to use them for something!
Has anyone ever tried to write a Excel spreadsheet program with all the different parameters based on frames, motors, batteries, propellers and use Solver linear program to pick optimal combination? The objective function could be based on price, or flight time or speed. I would do it if I had the necessary data.
Lol the armattan Japalura four inch is an amazing craft . their new gecko is amazing as well. The new question is what motor to put on a 3" or 4" to maximize flight time and still have an acrobatic free style quad Hmmmmm Get the bottom plate from Armattan with the larger hole spacing diameter mount ?? Hmmmm
5 inch is so popular because miniquads had a major boom a few years ago and that was what everybody used. Its like the iphone. People bought it when it was amazing and new and people like that still use them nowadays because its what they know and what they like.
I disagree. I remember when mini quads became a thing. There just weren't great motors capable of making decent thrust on 4". You could run 4" on a 2205-ish motor but it was bigger and heavier and you didn't really gain much in exchange for the lost thrust.
@@JoshuaBardwell Yeah I kinda missed the boom. But I take part in the hobby since 2015 back then I remember my local rc shop having custom built 5 inches on display. Only 5 inch.
They really need to make it fit properly in the under 250g category or else this 4 inch doesnt make much sense. From the way you explained it, i feel like with the small battery it wasnt such an optimal 4 inch solution. I also feel like you didnt explain properly the 4 inch philosophy and why its not popular; with 4 inch you dont get the power-to-weight and inertia of a bigger quad so you cant properly carry a gopro to do freestyle, but its also not small enough to have the "fun and safe" factor of 2 and 3 inches; so 4 inch has always been in a poor position, but i do agree that if it fits for anything it will be for racing only. Not sure why they went for this niche form factor, they wont be reinventing racing with this.
Yup. 5inch can carry a gopro or bigger battery for race and 3inch and below using whoop fc are safe n fun enough to fly everywhere. I heard people using 4inch race side by side to 5inch in competition but how many top 5 or maybe top 10 racer using 4inch? If somebody have the information, please let us know the detail, especially the 4inch kwad spec.
@@apisxquad1732 have you heard of PhreakinFPV? dudes been racing 4" vs 5" for awhile now and does quite well with it. and now with current technology you can get HD without a GoPro.
@@AfafPrinceOSH that's a great question. To me, the perfect freestyle size really depends on where you're gonna fly it. Freestyle is about having fun... and the most fun thing to fly is something that is well matched to the environment you're going to fly it in. As for cinematic, I don't really participate in that aspect the hobby so I have no perspective to share.
@@_NFE although I don't have any quad at the moment but am planning for future. I love mostly cinematic along with some acro which usually falls in freestyle. Area I wish to do so are buildings, jungles, diving areas etc. I kind of like 3 and 4 inch as they are shorter in overall width. 5 inch seems too much width to operate in obstacles. And then again for 4 inch, perfect motors seems to not exist.
@@AfafPrinceOSH getting started is the hardest part. My suggestion to you is that there is no way you will select the "perfect" craft on the first try. Even those of us that have been doing this for years still make our best attempt to build the perfect quad for a job and learn from the process of trying and have to make revisions. For you I suggest starting small and simple so that the learning process begins for you and replaces the planning stage. Much you will learn from a small simple quad will influence your planning in the future. Look at an open source printable brushed micro quad frame series i released years ago called the Boss. They fly great, are very capable, and will get your "feet wet". They have the simplicity of a tiny whoop but with significantly more outdoor capabilities.
@@Fpvjunkee i got it from the BlitzFPV Website / shop. but unfortunatly the website doesnt exist anymore :/ but there are ways to geht a vert 4inch. where are u from ? Germany ? USA ? in both cases there may be a way to get u a vert 4inch
Only flies 4 inches and not 5 to keep them small. Was on geprc kxh4 last year and this year on alien 4 with blackbird motors and hqprop 4x4.3. Flies great while not so big. Building a 4 inch gecko at the moment.
Me and my overweight 4” backup build 😅... I think 4” has its place in racing, but freestyle is tough because at least I feel throwing a GoPro on makes it too heavy.
As an outsider to the hobby. It seems like quads might not need to be as fast and powerful as they are? Why not focus more on efficiency and get longer flight times? Just curious for input.
Joshua “four inches is the perfect size” Bardwell
that's what she said
Should it be a Teen Hawk now and not a Baby?
Teen Hawk? Could be difficult to work with, "Go and clean your props!" "You're not the boss of me!" ;)
I'm reminded of something I heard on a TV show when someone said they've only got from the ages between 3 and 8 in regards to teaching their child about the world, because before 3 they don't understand what you say, and after 8 they don't care what you say.
and Adolescent Hawk is a little too hard to spell
@@reworkfpv7359 Yet still seems awkward and out of place trying to figure out its identity appropriately. :-)
i feel like it should be child or infant hawk in my opinion. 7 inch seems more fitting for teen hawk :D
Turn the camera over then invert the video on cam setting. Then you can get more up tilt
Exactly
No need to invert the image. Your brain will adjust after about 200 flight hours.
@@PowerScissor it's like 3d flying upside down all the time. Hey Zoey does it.
@@PowerScissor Does it take that long? I thought per the experiment they did way back when, your brain would flip it right side up in 24 - 48 hours the first time, and significantly more quickly thereafter. It's been a little while though, so I could well be wrong.
@@ledchickenfpv7164 That study was continuous. In FPV, you fly a few minutes at a time and take the goggles off. Then you go about your day. If you fly 12 packs each day, that's not even 1/24 hours every day. So your brain wouldn't "flip" since the majority of the time it would be getting a normal image....I would assume. I doubt anyone would ever want to go through the frustration to find out the answer.
It's a MediumHawk. Duh 💁🏻♂️. And you're totally right about the antennas. I just folded them forward for testing but it should have been dealt with in the canopy.
I built a custom 4" quad two summers ago using a slim frame and brother hobby motors. It's a total joy to fly!!! Maybe 4" deserves more attention from manufacturers?
I recently built a 4-inch quad and after adjusting my rates, I really like how it flies!
JB, amazing info as always - you are an immeasurable treasure to this community. Also, LOVE the vid thumbnail!
The captions on my phone said it was the GNU Emacs BabyHawk. I was confused and excited all at the same time.
Vi babyhawk master race
@@bren42069 Nano babyhawk ftw
I have been flying 4 inch drones for two years as they are mental fun. You'll laugh but my fav 4 inch is my Eachine Falcon 180 which runs on 4s and has survived many big crashes with just a few standoffs that hold the plates together needing to be replaces.
You're correct, any transmitter not FCC approved is illegal for any non-HAM Tech certified operator, regardless of channel or power.
love love love my 4" RotorX atom build that I finally finished last week. lol. ...took me years to get back to that build and I can't get enough of it. looking to get a 4" babyhawk now.
Hi jb I've been 4 inch for around 6 months and I definately race better with my current piloting ability and yes it's quieter down the local park which is a big deal because we're band from flying local parks.
Sideshow bob
Uk
That little 3" R349 is faster than most 5" quads on the top end and more nimble in tight spaces. 3" quads are the future of this sport.
maybe for racing but not for freestyle cant hold any action cams
That extra mass makes a huge difference on crashes. I can't believe some of the crashes I turtle and fly off from that would surely require repairs on my 5"ers. I'm sold on 3" for that part only. I only race and never need hd footage, so I see no reason for a 5" anymore. Batteries are cheaper, charging faster, travelling with a fleet easier...it's a no-brainer
@@cozmics1191 with split, turtle, etc is a gopro still needed?
@@badipaddress gopro will work why not, the motors are stonecold.
The 349 flys like a toy. No way gonna keep up with a real racing quad with a good pilot. The one I flew was no impressive. I keep wondering why the hype?
More uptilt - does that camera have the ability to rotate the image 180 degrees (like flip+mirror)? That might allow you to mount it upside down so the plug wouldn't be in the way anymore.
I’ve been flying a 4” QAV 180 since May 2014....I’ve upgraded components but still love the 4” form factor...
I like it, I'm building an acrobrat with 1606/4100kv. I asked E Max a question about my motors about a week ago and they responded that they would run 6s tuned properly. I'm pretty sure they weren't talking about the 4100 kv, but that was their reply. Thanks JB!
I love my 4" X frame. I fly 4S RDQ packs and it's fast enough to get attention from blocks away.
The SpeedX GR1507 Motors takes it to 78MPH into and 80 with the wind if memory of Andy RC's radar speed run is correct.
If 100 MPH is the "legal" speed limit, I think it's great for someone a year into acro and FPV.
Saw a couple of other reviews on this and wondered why they didnt mention the antennaes sticking out like that. Glad you mentioned it :) And your idea for a fin to make turtle mode possible, could double as an antennae tube.
I wish I had extra money to be a patron again. You really do deserve it. You make the most knowledge filled and entertaining content of all my subscriptions. I do use affiliate links even if I haven't just watched a video. I don't think it'll compete unless Turner or vanover are behind it but I'm still getting one just because I have 95% of all the Emax quads. The hawk 5 is what I use to race multi GP with, just has a diatone stack and Xing motors though. Good video
Joshua the Dronestar’s here in Texas we have been running the Pucet from FlightClub for years. It’s a 4” quad with a canopy. 4” quads are awesome but like you are pointing out they are limited
I have a 4" reverb clone, probably my favorite quad! AUW around 290g, 20x20 stack, 1806 2700kv, gemfan 4052 & 4S 850mah which works great, decent flight times & plenty of power.
It's all about cubic disk loading, heavy stuff goes faster & speed scales with size... My 4" reverb is loaded like a 5" with a gopro (600g) so behaves much like one but scaled down slightly, although it's mass is made up by more motor & lipo rather than having a HD camera onboard so it's comparatively more powerful, feels light & thrusty, pretty quick but not ground breaking by any means, very nimble & arrests momentum well. Believe it or not a 600g 5" is still pretty light relatively speaking but also a good size & weight for carrying some momentum & covering ground.
My 3" flies on a pretty similar setup to the 4", drawing similar current but with smaller (faster) motors, frame & props. It's only slightly lighter (most seem to be around 250g) but has much less actual disk area (3" has only 56% of the 4" disk area, size is not linear).
When looking at cubic disk loading, a 4" @ 290g is 49.6 oz per square foot where a 3" @ 250g is 101.3 oz, the 3" is twice as heavy. This is exactly why most 3" are so fast & heavy feeling these days, also why they carry so much momentum. If we observe cubic disk loading we can design quads in any size category that have the desired flight characteristics & speed envelope (the latter always scaling with size), right now most 3" quads are more like scaled down versions of DRL's 180mph 5" (1kg+).
Fixed wing guys have been doing this for eons. I spent some time when getting into RC testing wing loading speed & handling characteristics with ghetto depron foam wings, building similarly loaded models that were identical plans in different sizes etc. Normal wing loading numbers were absolutely useless when scaling models but cubic wing loading was indeed entirely accurate & a great way to predict how a fixed wing model would fly. From my own experimentation with multi's while observing these rules & observing the flight characteristics of various setups over the years I see the same logic is totally relevant to multirotors. It's actually very easy to plan a random size quad & predict it's flight characteristics because we have quite a vast pool of knowledge now built up from playing around with various sizes & weights, cubic loading helps to tie all this data together in a sense.
yea i wouldve done something with the antennas too, When i started bulding these things i bult a 5inch and then a 3 inch and from the beginning after alot of consideration i thought the 4inch just was a good blend of size/weight/ leverage from the motors... but i kinda avoided it because of the lack of choice in hardware and support for the size in general as far as how many people are running it and i can benefit from their info or experiences they share
Usually flying the Iflight IH4 on the Iflight Succex Micro F4 35a Stack with Iflight Tachyon 1408 motors with of course TBS Crossfire, Crossfire Nano and Caddx Turtle. I'm a senior citizen whose just reached intermediate level thanks in great part to your videos; just wanted to add post, my first actually. The IH4 flies very well, like a 5" and can still get into those gaps nicey too, anyway; Keep doing what your doing, Thanx J.
You’re right about smaller quads being more durable. I crashed my new upgraded turbobee with the 4200kv motors into a metal light poll yesterday, bounced back about 10 metres. Apart from the props being bent, and after bending it back into shape several times from other crashes the frame still looks good, apart from some minor scratches. Also some of the screws had come loose, didn’t realise and one motor came off later, luckily I had the spares with me, was going again after a few minutes of checking every screw. That little beast looks great, as someone said turn the camera upside down or make a small bracket to get it to clear and get more angle. Great review J B.
John Grzeskowiak , omg, no, not the corvette. So sorry to hear that mate. Like I said, it was only an iflight turbobee, which is small, so nowhere near the mass to keep it going on, it just bounced off like it was almost nothing.
I am one of the weirdos that fly a 4" kwad. It's an MTR 4.0SS with Hyperlite 2204 3022kv motors and I love it. It's my basher/gap checker.
Joshua Bardwell I still love my babyhawk so much i’ve just got a tarsier 4K camera for it so I’m still under the 250g . I tested the camera fpv on it now and OMG it’s really clear. Very happy with the camera. Still waiting on hardware to finish and fly👌😃
You're 100% correct with the antennas in my experience, I chopped the antennas off my babyhawk-R 3inch the same way
I have the original Babyhawk r and swapped the arms to 2.5 inch. It flies terrible. It has massive oscillations as you would expect from a damaged prop. But I changed all props and checked the arms and the motors. Everything is good. I can't find the problem.
My first build fpv kwad is an 4inch sub 250g kwad. It's my main kwad !
I love the 1606 emax motors! I use the 4000kv ones on my acrobrat and they absolutely hall a$$!
i feel like ive seen a guy racing a 4" against 5" in a lot of races, and actually beat a majority. you can make a 4" a rocket if you know what youre doing.
Us Armattan fan boys ASSUREDLY have a four inch or two in our fleets . Remember the Japalura ! Replaced mine with a 4" Gecko -- Beauty !
yea.... as an owner of this... tie the vtx antenna down at the very least. i chopped it in the very first crash. didnt have any extra right angle mmcx antennas either.
The battery plug that comes with this quad is xt30. For the emax 1606 motors that comes with the quad can draw ~25Amp each. The battery that is provided with it supposed to be able to produce more than 68Amp constantly. Is this the right battery plug for this quad?
Maybe the camera can be mounted upside down and image flipped, to get more uptilt?
Wait wait wait...
Josh......... your not a lawyer?!!!
I’m outta here.
Lol kidding buddy. Another amazing video. You’ve not only inspired me to get into fpv and already on my 2nd quad on the way; but you’ve saved my ass being lost in beta flight many a time.
Keep up the amazing work buddy!
Stu from uav futures flew many 4" quads. Maybe more than any other size. I don't know why 5" is all over racing but I think 5" popularity has a bit to do with freestyle and flying with gopros. Without that load 4" has been able to hold its own for a while. But maybe because of popularity the 5" sector got a ton of prop and Frame development so maybe it's been a little behind for a short time
daniel dimitri 5” is much more efficient
Great review. Please note the Diatone he compares to is the gt-r369 not gt-r349 it’s basically a stretched x, 6s version of the 349. 3 = 3 inch, 6 = 6s, 9 = model year.
Will we see a review of the gt-r369?
Hi Joshua, great vid! Just need to mention that tiny rx reciever can be definitely paired in D16 😀
to have more degrees on the caméra, loose the screw ont the left (the side where is the plug of the caméra.), and you have 2mm more to move it, and go up. only one screw ;)
AUREL HOLLOWGRAM best comment great info
Been flying 4 inch for years an din silverware brushless too, goes fantastic and nice to fly but it IS a little more intimidating to people in the park..
Crazy how a year changes the hobby.
“No one flys 4 inch quads” to a year later everyone is on that 4” long range hype
Actually i'm a 5" freestyler. My first other freeestyler - after a short and unfortunately trip in the world of the whoops - will become the GepRC CinePro 4K. But this 4" Babyhawk looks very well and interesting, and i can imagine that this one will get my next copter after the CinePro :-) Thanks vor your great video, i love them. Best regards from germany ;-)
I love tiny whoops.
I've been working on an open source 3" frame with an Acrobrat-style suspension. A few months ago, I decided to cut some longer arms, stick those same Emax 1606 motors on, and see how 4" works with these "little" motors.
I'm overbuilt a bit. A heavy VTX, a heavy, 5" 6S capable 20x20 ESC. I'm up at 270g with a Turtle and a 650 4S. I'm confident I could get it under 250, but now with the beefy components I had on hand.
I was hoping that 4" would a good option for a 250g build. I was hoping I'd see longer flight times. Maybe it could be a good HD freestyle build, but maybe the big props could cruise more efficiently? Maybe it'd be possible to do some 250g long range?
That part didn't work out. The gentlest modern props I could find are the HQ 4x3x3. Sure, it cruises fast with something like 15% throttle, and that makes it feel a lot different than my 3" build, but my flight times aren't much longer. Cruising time is similar. I might get almost an extra minute of fairly aggressive freestyle, but it isn't anything to write home about.
That said, I really like the 4". I carry a 1306 3" at about 225g and the 1606 4" at about 270g. I prefer to fly the 4" build. It just feels more like a 5" freestyle quad. The biggest bummer is the variety of available props at 4"!
I think it needs to lose 20g so that the auw is 150g, then an 850mah battery at sub 100g would make for a great sub 250g package. Lighter motors and props could get it below 250g weight.
Is it a good beginner platform for someone who has never flown a drone in acro mode
„4inches is the perfect size“ ...first i thought why is he giggling... then i had this iseewhatyoudidthere moment 🤣😂👍👍
Charlie Waffles you heard him. Emaxs like about 4 inches. Lol
Yup. It's so good, that's why JB flys it all the time ...........
Been flying 4" exclusively for past 7 months.. And its honestly the best. Cheaper parts like the 20amp mamba stack cheaper batts 850mah and 1080mah 4s.. Its a win win for me. On the pratcice track i out pace alot of my buddies on 5"
For more uptilt you could probably solder the camera wires directly to the camera, so you remove the plug that blocks tilting more. Not sure it's worth the effort though.
I've been saying this for so long!!! Finally!!! 😍😍😍
However that stack though... Uggg emax 20x20 has failed me so many times... The 30x30? Wonderful. The 20x20, I have yet to have a good experience
Hi Josh, I have looked at 4in. Quad, I was thinking about it Armattan gecko 4in. , But at the time I wasn't comfortable with building it. Thanks again for the information on this 4in. Quad. Emax may have a Great new Quad.
Just FYI my BHR 4" came with maximum uptilt on the camera, so I think they've adjusted something in the factory.
I think that battery is a little bit small. Not sure what your thoughts on this are? I use an 850mAh 4S on my diatone 3 inch. Surely a bigger battery would be better suited to 4 inch?
Can I use a Taranis QX7 with the BNF version of this quad??
I would like to see what the top end is on it. That 349 been clocked 120 I think
I'm pretty sure Jessika Dronehart / Rotor Girl has been touting 4" race quads for a while. I can see how you would benefit changing the size for some race courses.
Funny thing when I'm building a 4 inch quadcopter just this week I just thought there's just no parts for it. My first quad is a 4 inch and literally uses a 5 inch motor so that's why it's a pig. But just this week I'm shopping for a motor and decided that a 1506 to 1606 is the best and there's only 2 motor option around, the gemfan 1606 and the emax 1606.(ended up going with the 1606). And the battery im looking for is a 1000mah 90c+ battery... Only a few battery option came up. Settled with a 1050 3s 75c and the battery just sags it NEEDs a 95c atleast. It's fast though. And lifts a gopro session for freestyle. The best 4 inch prop BTW that's a must is the lumenier 4x4x3 v2 it's light and have the most thrust and stability than all the 4 inch props I've used.
Sound effects are top notch! 1:48
I like the 4inch size and i did make a custom one but prop selection held it back for me! Heres hoping we get a new plethora of 4 inch props. Also not a fan of the stack prefer stacks with 3mm screws.
your laugh at 0:40 is hilarious 🤣😂👌
The best thing about this - we finally have a good prop apart from hq 4x4.3x3!
Try the lumenier 4x4x3 v2
Is the hq more aggressive than the Avan?
I think this is the sweet spot.... And really want to try a 4 inch. I was last time looking on banggood and was wondering why there aren't any 4inch bnf.... And here it is 👍
Thanks Joshua, now I'll be hopefully able to sell my HQprops 4*4.3*.3 which I accidently bought instead of 5inch because your video might convince more pilots to buy 4inch quads :D
Whenever you are showwing any props I wonder why noone tried multiple blade props ? I remeber when my bo said try noctua cooling sollutions because it was more efficient and more quiet then the rest And so I wonder what if we instal noctua shape/type props on drone and of course devrease rotation speed ? would it be quiet ? would it be flyable ? Are you able to do test and record it if not done already ? :>
Finally a sane reviewer that is mystified at the complete lack of antenna mounting. Maybe Emax is getting into selling 3d printers and they can come preloaded with stl files for printing a proper mounting solution.
Could you talk about the theory of a 3 inch octocopter more in depth than on the Rotor Riot episode? I designed a frame in cad, but im debating wether its worth it to build or if i should just save my money and stick to 5 inch
The theory is that eight smaller motors gives similar power and speed to a 5", but with increased yaw authority and responsiveness.
That face :39 lol!!
Thank you for this video. Would it be a good idea to strap a mobius 1 or small hd camera on this to get freestyle footage?
I was going to get the kopis 2 rotor riot editon but I feel like i need a much more robust quad which is why I want to go smaller, but no less than 3". Honestly im overwhelmed with all the different options...
I don’t know what to think, as I’m not a racer. It would have been nice to hear your take on this quad as a freestyle ripster, as you pretty much rip the Bardwell estate daily! I personally think these motors will show up on all kinds of 3” frame builds!
I’m on the fence with this quad, as I do have the Hawk 5, and the Babyhawk R3, both of which are fantastic quads! I just don’t know where this fits in.
I wouldn't even consider this for freestyle IMO as it doesn't have HD recording and isn't really set up to carry a GoPro. When you are down in the 2" or 3" size, the lack of HD can be forgiven because the quad is so small you can fly it places where a 5" just couldn't go. So you compromise on HD recording. In the 4" size, that's not true (IMO) so the lack of HD recording rules it out as a freestyle main.
Joshua Bardwell - Aside from the HD recording, which I really couldn’t care less about, and more about the quad flight, would this make a decent freestyle quad or is the power to weight ratio to much like flying a frisbee?!!
I'm looking at getting into a beginner race drone and or free style. I'm pretty good at line of sight and fpv whoop. But I want to move out side. What do you suggest for a beginner. A ready to fly. I have a spectrum controller..
I dunno, is it really more nimble than a lightweight 5” racer? I have a couple of 5”, a Diatone GT R249+ (2.5”) and a whoop and the 2.5” is plenty fast enough that it feels like there’s no meaningful step in between that and a 5” - especially when running on 4s I was shocked at how comparable the speed is to a 5” when I ran it the first time - and no, I’s never consider running it indoors, it’s to fast to even run in my back yard.
The 3" BabyhawkR tried to save too much weight. The arms are so thin I broke mine pretty much every session I had, even in light crashes. I don't fly it now because I'm sick of it breaking. My 5 inch, much heavier doesn't break often on hard crashes.
Been saying for years 4” quads are the way to go!
Great review and flying, Joshua! 😃
I'm liking the 4inch hmmm that or the diatone r349 i don't know
I've been flying a 4 inch for about a year. The biggest issue is a lack of decent frames. I like my 3 inch computers better though as they are under the 250g mark which might be helpful with regulations etc
My go to is and always has been a 4" Japalra and now the 4" Gecko. :)
Can you flip the camera upside down and then flip the image to get more uptilt? I've done that with a runcam.
I knew that’s 4” would soon make an appearance! I just built an ImpulseRc 4” standard alien about a week ago!
Hi Joshua, I have a baby hawk r pro 2.5 inch prop and i was wondering if its fine to fly 4s. If not, what is a good throttle scale limit to put so that it won't blow up? I just bought a bunch of 850mah 4s tattu batteries and I want to use them for something!
Has anyone ever tried to write a Excel spreadsheet program with all the different parameters based on frames, motors, batteries, propellers and use Solver linear program to pick optimal combination? The objective function could be based on price, or flight time or speed. I would do it if I had the necessary data.
Lol the armattan Japalura four inch is an amazing craft . their new gecko is amazing as well. The new question is what motor to put on a 3" or 4" to maximize flight time and still have an acrobatic free style quad Hmmmmm Get the bottom plate from Armattan with the larger hole spacing diameter mount ?? Hmmmm
5 inch is so popular because miniquads had a major boom a few years ago and that was what everybody used. Its like the iphone. People bought it when it was amazing and new and people like that still use them nowadays because its what they know and what they like.
I disagree. I remember when mini quads became a thing. There just weren't great motors capable of making decent thrust on 4". You could run 4" on a 2205-ish motor but it was bigger and heavier and you didn't really gain much in exchange for the lost thrust.
@@JoshuaBardwell Yeah I kinda missed the boom. But I take part in the hobby since 2015 back then I remember my local rc shop having custom built 5 inches on display. Only 5 inch.
Please can you give a link for your setup please
i have a 4 inch gecko and i love it!
Great video Josh I am 1 of those that do fly 4 inch I have five 4 inch quads and a few 3 and 5 inch
They really need to make it fit properly in the under 250g category or else this 4 inch doesnt make much sense. From the way you explained it, i feel like with the small battery it wasnt such an optimal 4 inch solution. I also feel like you didnt explain properly the 4 inch philosophy and why its not popular; with 4 inch you dont get the power-to-weight and inertia of a bigger quad so you cant properly carry a gopro to do freestyle, but its also not small enough to have the "fun and safe" factor of 2 and 3 inches; so 4 inch has always been in a poor position, but i do agree that if it fits for anything it will be for racing only. Not sure why they went for this niche form factor, they wont be reinventing racing with this.
Yup. 5inch can carry a gopro or bigger battery for race and 3inch and below using whoop fc are safe n fun enough to fly everywhere.
I heard people using 4inch race side by side to 5inch in competition but how many top 5 or maybe top 10 racer using 4inch? If somebody have the information, please let us know the detail, especially the 4inch kwad spec.
@@apisxquad1732 have you heard of PhreakinFPV? dudes been racing 4" vs 5" for awhile now and does quite well with it. and now with current technology you can get HD without a GoPro.
@@Mr6o8 Thanks dude for info 👌
Apis XQuad I got you man! Check dudes stuff out, it’s crazy. He’s been doing it awhile it seems like so I’m guessing he knows his stuff.
TY Josh, You gave me the info I needed to make a decision.
@joshua bardwell you need to watch andyrc’s review of the diatone R369 video. It had a top speed of about 120mph so speed of 3” is not an issue
I'd rather fly a 4in to a 5in any day. To me 4in is the perfect miniquad, 2.5in is the perfect microquad.
Which size is better for freestyle and cinematic?
@@AfafPrinceOSH that's a great question. To me, the perfect freestyle size really depends on where you're gonna fly it. Freestyle is about having fun... and the most fun thing to fly is something that is well matched to the environment you're going to fly it in. As for cinematic, I don't really participate in that aspect the hobby so I have no perspective to share.
@@_NFE although I don't have any quad at the moment but am planning for future. I love mostly cinematic along with some acro which usually falls in freestyle. Area I wish to do so are buildings, jungles, diving areas etc. I kind of like 3 and 4 inch as they are shorter in overall width. 5 inch seems too much width to operate in obstacles. And then again for 4 inch, perfect motors seems to not exist.
And also many says 5 inch has more stability than 3 inch. And also flight time is said to be more in 5 inch which I highly doubt.
@@AfafPrinceOSH getting started is the hardest part. My suggestion to you is that there is no way you will select the "perfect" craft on the first try. Even those of us that have been doing this for years still make our best attempt to build the perfect quad for a job and learn from the process of trying and have to make revisions. For you I suggest starting small and simple so that the learning process begins for you and replaces the planning stage. Much you will learn from a small simple quad will influence your planning in the future. Look at an open source printable brushed micro quad frame series i released years ago called the Boss. They fly great, are very capable, and will get your "feet wet". They have the simplicity of a tiny whoop but with significantly more outdoor capabilities.
You should have a look at the Blitz FPV Infinitum, best 4" Frame ever! It´s a vertikal Design and Rips Balls!! I fly 4inch all day and love it :P
Where can you get the 4" vert frame
@@Fpvjunkee i got it from the BlitzFPV Website / shop. but unfortunatly the website doesnt exist anymore :/ but there are ways to geht a vert 4inch. where are u from ? Germany ? USA ? in both cases there may be a way to get u a vert 4inch
What is the best vtx antenna for these? Mine got sucked into the prop on the first flight. :(
Only flies 4 inches and not 5 to keep them small. Was on geprc kxh4 last year and this year on alien 4 with blackbird motors and hqprop 4x4.3. Flies great while not so big.
Building a 4 inch gecko at the moment.
Me and my overweight 4” backup build 😅...
I think 4” has its place in racing, but freestyle is tough because at least I feel throwing a GoPro on makes it too heavy.
BREAKER BREAKER one-niner, this is KI7**V do I get a copy?
I think my Atom 4 inch is just as fast as my 5 inchers. However the controls are more touchy and it floats little too much for me to race it.
great vid as always. can't wait to hear your thoughts on the toothpick class
I like your videos. Keep it up ❤🤗
As an outsider to the hobby. It seems like quads might not need to be as fast and powerful as they are? Why not focus more on efficiency and get longer flight times? Just curious for input.
Some quads do that. Just like some vehicles are family sedans, some are semi trucks, and some are race cars.
Oh and if that camera can flip its picture you can turn the camera up side down and get more angle
I have a 4" ToothFairy I've flown for over a year. It has a perfect place in my fleet, but it would not be my only quad.