The Second Victoria Line

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 294

  • @cmw3737
    @cmw3737 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

    The fact that the Victoria line was built on the cheap but is still so useful and well designed deserves another video. How they designed the upgrade of stations to incorporate the cross platform interchanges with the Northern and Bakerloo on a low budget is something I'd particularly like to see more detail on.

    • @amanda-we9fv
      @amanda-we9fv 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

      victoria line having CPI with northern city line at highbury and islington pleasantly surprised me when i went there!

  • @jacksonmahr8915
    @jacksonmahr8915 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +406

    "We were forced to close Victoria Station because so many people wanted to use it" - any standard British bureaucrat.

    • @cv990a4
      @cv990a4 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      Or the classic Vietnam statement about having to destroy a village to save it.

    • @MrSmith1984
      @MrSmith1984 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Show how idiotic British Governments are when it comes to infrastructure.

    • @neuralwarp
      @neuralwarp 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Huh. Like the roads and the NHS, then.

    • @MrSmith1984
      @MrSmith1984 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@neuralwarp
      Mainly because like with Infrastructure, British Governments are unwilling to invest in either.

    • @RichardFelstead1949
      @RichardFelstead1949 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Yes Minister.

  • @richcolour
    @richcolour 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +113

    "...take the heat off the Victoria Line.." now that's a good idea

    • @sarachen7478
      @sarachen7478 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      yep...literally

    • @jimtaylor294
      @jimtaylor294 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Other Tube lines: *same* 😅

    • @williamday9628
      @williamday9628 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Air con scheduled for 2050!

    • @jimtaylor294
      @jimtaylor294 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@williamday9628 2150* 😉
      (and several times the original budget; naturally)

  • @ianpatterson6552
    @ianpatterson6552 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +139

    Jago is a veritable Wikipedia of long forgotten studies, reports and enquiries into London planes, trains and automobiles.

    • @MrDannyDetail
      @MrDannyDetail 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      I read 'veritable' as 'vegetable' at first and thought that was a little harsh on Jago lol.

    • @AlanHMartin
      @AlanHMartin 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@MrDannyDetail Oh, the pain!
      img.rgstatic.com/content/show/50504462-4406-464b-8ac2-5f57ca36ef55/e2e30c89-edf1-4360-a80d-3fcf75dde5df/e9db7e5d-f814-49a8-ac38-9a27907a5904/screenshot-800.jpg

    • @JW1_1
      @JW1_1 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Mainly trains in this case, which I for one am not complaining about in the slightest!

  • @ztmsl
    @ztmsl 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +58

    Missed opportunity to say: "You're the Victoria Line to my Victoria Line" 😀

  • @gracewenzel
    @gracewenzel 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +203

    VicTWOria

  • @disphoto
    @disphoto 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

    From 1979 through the late 1990s, I flew into Gatwick and needed to get to Bedford. The best way to do it was to take the Gatwick Express to Victoria and then the Victoria line to St. Pancras. Back then, long before Eurostar, it was an old station serving trains from London to the Midlands. Going inside, I can hardly recognize the interior today. I had no idea that the Victoria Line was relatively new/old, as it seemed to look as old as any other line. It was a good hike from the Tube station for "Kings Cross St Pancras" to get to St. Pancras. BTW, in the early days, I could never understand how they pronounced "St. Pancras")
    The day I flew in, I would hop the Victoria line with my bags to St. Pancras and check my bags (at least before the bombings in London did away with bag checking). Then, I would tour London and catch a matinee show. Then, I would return to St Pancras and take the train to Bedford. Going back home, I would often stay at the Grosvenor Hotel over the station the day before I left so I could drop my bags, see London that day, and catch a train in the morning to the Airport in time to make my plane. Then, in 1997, Thameslink came along with a train that went from Gatwick to Bedford; it was simpler but not as much fun. I found it strange that before 1997 no "trains" traveled across London. I asked how they did Thameslink and was said that they opened back up a very old tunnel.

  • @carltonleboss
    @carltonleboss 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +196

    Victoria Line 2: Electric Boogaloo

  • @richardjohnson8731
    @richardjohnson8731 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +106

    Ha, I just got off the Victoria Line and saw this.

    • @apjapki
      @apjapki 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Regular or secret?

    • @yusufkassim8236
      @yusufkassim8236 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Me and you both bro!

    • @alessandrowda
      @alessandrowda 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Same here!

    • @TheSamGrahamShow
      @TheSamGrahamShow 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I was on it yesterday

    • @plumbeats4573
      @plumbeats4573 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      bet you were sweating. Place is basically hell in summer

  • @asdaneedsfunds
    @asdaneedsfunds 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +79

    Aside from the very real issues discussed in this video, the Victoria line has to be one of London's most successful infrastructure projects ever built. High speeds, a huge number of cross platform interchanges, full automation, great reliability, and a bigger loading gauge than all other deep tube lines.
    It took until about 2010 for some of those benefits to be realised, but the end result today is seriously impressive.

    • @JKK_85
      @JKK_85 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Yes the designers did a great job considering their restrictions. Unfortunately it may well be the last railway line in Britain to get air conditioning.

    • @Krzyszczynski
      @Krzyszczynski 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      It was also, for some reason, the only line which - occasionally, anyway - kept running during Tube strikes.

    • @vincentlugthart4618
      @vincentlugthart4618 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @@Krzyszczynski as I understand it, because of the automation, the train operators on the Victoria line are more like guards than drivers, so generally belong to a different union. So train operators are mostly RMT on the Victoria line, mostly ASLEF on other lines

    • @Krzyszczynski
      @Krzyszczynski 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@vincentlugthart4618 Thanks for that, Vince. Always puzzled me.

  • @VickersDoorter
    @VickersDoorter 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    I recall as a child circa 1967 living at 515 Seven Sisters Road and feeling the vibration of tunnelling activities below us for some weeks. Our terrace had poor foundations to the point that the entire terrace leans forward and was structurally condemned in 1933, but WW2 put paid to demolishing still-standing buildings and amazingly, 90 years later and a tube tunnel later, it's still standing. I recall going on one of the first services through the tunnel and noticed even though quite young, how clean and fresh the air smelled. Not quite the same aroma now!

  • @ShawnGillette
    @ShawnGillette 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    I've said it before in comment sections of your videos but, please, never quit making these.
    They remind me of the time my wife and I spent in London using the tube and loving every minute of it.
    She passed away, it'll be 3 years Dec 1 of this year and your videos give me some comfort in remembering her.

    • @jimtaylor294
      @jimtaylor294 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      My condolences.
      I have a similar reason (kind of). I used to watch JH a lot via TV with my [late] mother, as it's great viewing while having supper, and she always had an addendum from her own experiences of the Tube & London in general.
      She passed away last year, but this channel - and others like Lockpicking Lawyer & Lindybeige that were regular shared viewing - help a lot re' focusing on the positives, and it's always heartening to see how many share the interest in railways she instilled in me 🙂 .

  • @nickbarber2080
    @nickbarber2080 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +56

    For many years they ran "shorts" to cover the crowded section between Victoria and Kings X/Seven Sisters until the whole line became overcrowded and tipping-out was causing too many delays.
    Problem was,the ROUTE of the Vic was just too well-designed...right down to the quick'n'easy cross-platform interchanges....

    • @Krzyszczynski
      @Krzyszczynski 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      Ah yes, I remember that. A sudden hiss coming over the intercom, then: "Kings Cross station, Kings Cross station - this train terminates here. All change here please, all change". Blasted nuisance.

    • @paxundpeace9970
      @paxundpeace9970 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      They need a line that will run parallel and take at least 35% of the demand.

    • @nickbarber2080
      @nickbarber2080 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@paxundpeace9970 I think this was the idea behind Crossrail 2? Not sure....

  • @raythomas4812
    @raythomas4812 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    I'm amazed where you get all your info from - you are one hell of a researcher. My hat is off !

  • @CyclingSteve
    @CyclingSteve 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +55

    Building a tube line like it's 1899, it was never going to work well in 1968.

  • @SmudgeThomas
    @SmudgeThomas 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    The history of the post war tube is basically "do we have to run a railway? Fine but we're going to complain and drag our feet to avoid building more"

  • @asheland_numismatics
    @asheland_numismatics 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    I’ve never been to the UK, I’ve never even ridden on a train whatsoever and yet I find these videos continually fascinating. I’ve watched every video on here since 2020.

    • @jimtaylor294
      @jimtaylor294 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I'm British, but have only actually ridden *The Tube* about eight times in over a third of a century 😂 .
      (having rarely ventured into London from the East-Midlands)
      Still fascinated by the Underground though, partially through many family tales from the tube in the '60's through to the '80's 🤔🙂

    • @asheland_numismatics
      @asheland_numismatics 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@jimtaylor294 i’ve seen pictures and videos, that’s a pretty part of the country!

    • @jimtaylor294
      @jimtaylor294 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@asheland_numismatics I'd agree with that 🙂👌

  • @dougmorris2134
    @dougmorris2134 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    Hello Jago, As I watched this video I thought of the “City Widened Lines” from 1866 in which the tracks of the Metropolitan Railway were widened from two tracks to four between Kings Cross and Moorgate Street.
    Best wishes from Oxfordshire.

  • @mikehindson-evans159
    @mikehindson-evans159 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Another +brilliant documentary - thank you once again. Historical note on re-routing stations at 04:05 - see ANGEL on the Northern Line in the very late 1980s (getting rid of the SERIOUSLY uncomfortable single platform between BOTH running Lines! It is also well-known that the narrow platforms on the Vic Line result from "on the cheap" or a civil servant getting his sums wrong! back in the planning days...

  • @ianmcclavin
    @ianmcclavin 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    These days, virtually all trains start from Brixton and some trains only terminate at Seven Sisters instead of running through to Walthamstow because of the depot at Northumberland Park.. Originally, however, extensive use was made of the reversing sidings at King's Cross St Pancras, and after the Brixton extension opened, at Victoria, resulting in numerous short workings. Today, both these reversing facilities are seldom used.

  • @PokhrajRoy.
    @PokhrajRoy. 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    3:14 I remember in ‘Going Underground’ about how Victoria Line stations were claustrophobic and windy.

  • @zetectic7968
    @zetectic7968 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Oh the British disease: penny-pinch to build something barely adequate & then spend twice as much to increase capacity by 25% (see M1, M3 & M25 etc) DLR

    • @southcalder
      @southcalder 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      In 20 years or so…. “See HS2”

  • @davebowman6497
    @davebowman6497 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    2:28 : The door with the sticker blocking the Victoria roundel while talking about the station being closed during rush hour.. Bloody brilliant, if you ask me!

  • @eddisstreet
    @eddisstreet 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    There were problems on the Victoria Line this morning which oddly, made me appreciate how good it usually is. I whinge if I have to wait more than two minutes.

  • @tamara3984
    @tamara3984 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

    Oh, I wld love a light green line

    • @paintedpilgrim
      @paintedpilgrim 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thats the colour for the trams in Croydon.....

  • @ricktownend9144
    @ricktownend9144 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Interesting. One notable feature of the Victoria line is the number of cross-platform interchanges - with Piccadilly at Finsbury Pk, GN & City at Highbury & Islington, Northern (Bank) at Euston, Bakerloo at Oxford Circus and Northern (again) at Stockwell. These must have an effect on usage figures - e.g. the quickest way to get from Charing X to Kings X is Bakerloo and Victoria, changing quickly at Oxford Circus. Actually the Underground already had quite a tradition of X-Platform Interchange, going back to when the Bakerloo (as it was then) was extended in parallel with the Met, and the Piccadilly in parallel to the District, and then subsequently with the Central line eastern extension - at Mile End with the Met & District, and Stratford with the GE Electric lines (now Elizabeth line). I have to say that if these projects had been done by the current TfL management or Elizabeth line designers, we would probably have ended up with few or no X-Platform interchanges - and they would have called it 'For the convenience of Passengers'!

    • @darganx
      @darganx 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Also Jubilee (Green Park) and Central (Oxford Circus)

    • @dominicfindlay
      @dominicfindlay 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      ​@darganx
      Those are interchanges, but not cross-platform interchanges.
      All the lines at Green Park are somewhat famously far away from the others, and that is it faster to use the escalators up to the ticket hall and go down the line you want.
      Crossplatform interchanges are good for quick changes, but the downside is there's no buffer and no way of controlling flow of passengers between the platforms.

  • @rosmear7871
    @rosmear7871 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Thanks Jago, a summary of British Transport policies dating back to the victorian era (and possibly earlier with te canals);

  • @MervynPartin
    @MervynPartin 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    With a modest increase in the size of Northumberland Park depot, the first trains of the day could head via the Victoria Line 1 to a junction with Line 2 at King's Cross and return later. The additional trains needed would only be enough required to cover the King's Cross-Victoria section.
    Another possibility would be like the previous arrangements on the Glasgow Subway, where trains stayed on the line overnight (a necessity at that time)

    • @Dionpitman
      @Dionpitman 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I thought it was going to be "you are the Line B to my Line A" (or the other way round) but he went with "You are the depot to my Brixton" instead

    • @davebowman6497
      @davebowman6497 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      We're all watching Jago videos trying to figure out the ending before it is actually delivered. I also went with the, in hindsight obvious, line A/B. But Jago is playing games with us, and here we are with our pants down! He's the non-existing belt to our failing braces..😊

  • @glynwelshkarelian3489
    @glynwelshkarelian3489 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +45

    All those who worked on building the Victoria Line should be massively proud of what they did.
    The BBC have a 'free' documentary about how the Victoria Line was built; and how Oxford Circus was closed for just 65 hours for a steel road 'umbrella' to be put in so all the traffic could re-start on the Monday whilst navvies dug out the new station..
    th-cam.com/video/GwRRSJ_wtIg/w-d-xo.html
    The films shows the skilled and dangerous work that had to be done. Like the narration says: "They earn a lot of money! And they sweated their skill for every penny of it!"
    This would all be impossible today, every single thing the workers did could result in a lost finger, hand, or life. That's what the 'Good Old Days' were; when Britain did everything on the cheap, but there was skilled labour ("Almost all from Ireland") who were willing to work 16 hour shifts for double time..
    "Think of them when, you yourself, are riding in comfort through the shotgun tunnel of the new Tube."

    • @PrograError
      @PrograError 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      This reminds me of that Japanese quick switch job for one of the station in Tokyo. Highly planned, highly choreographed work of art/ engineering… (and all with modern safety standards, I believe.)

    • @SpiritmanProductions
      @SpiritmanProductions 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Thanks for the link. That video was worth another watch!

    • @peterjones6640
      @peterjones6640 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I remember as a child seeing that steel umbrella at Oxford Circus, to me it seemed to be there for ages.

  • @kevinlynch8614
    @kevinlynch8614 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Very informative video as always. What annoys me about this situation is that the Victoria run is running beyond capacity, yet at Walthamstow, Blackhorse Road, Tottenham Hale and Seven Sisters you'll find massive tower block residential developments that will encourage thousands more onto an already saturated service, and I'm sure there will be examples of this elsewhere along the line. There seems to be no joined up thinking when it comes to housing and public transport provision... 😑

  • @barttheanorak
    @barttheanorak 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Maybe the crowding at Walthamstow has a lot to do with people disembarking for onward travel to less well served areas. An extension to Whipp’s Cross could help to alleviate that. Yeah I know, too expensive etc.

    • @Krzyszczynski
      @Krzyszczynski 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I remember a TV doco, must be at least 30 years ago now, which had a reporter secretly filming on the Victoria Line to show how crowded it was. He started his journey at Walthamstow Central, and that train was already jam-packed before it even left the station.

  • @AndroidNexus-5
    @AndroidNexus-5 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    There is an amazing film on TH-cam titled "BBC: How They Dug the Victoria Line." I hope to see some clips of it on this fantastic channel.

    • @emjayay
      @emjayay 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Link above.

  • @mgramsdale
    @mgramsdale 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Brilliant as always!

  • @GustavSvard
    @GustavSvard 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

    so...
    I'm hearing "build Crossrail 2".
    which is obviously the way forward, yes. As in Build the *full* HS2. And the Pic-Vic tunnel. And HS3. and so on. A rolling program of major projects, always a few in planning, always one or two using TBMs, always one being outfitted, always one in testing. Same as should be done for electrification, really.

  • @kadams842
    @kadams842 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    "You are the depot to my Brixton" should be on Valentines day cards

  • @mrgreatauk
    @mrgreatauk 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Imagine if they started building Victoria Lines in the 60s and just never stopped. London's whole tube network would be efficient and modern, meanwhile other UK cities could have proper metros too...

  • @JohnSmith-ud7ti
    @JohnSmith-ud7ti 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Another fascinating video. Thank you!

  • @williamday9628
    @williamday9628 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The Victoria line is very well designed despite its low budget. It covers good distance between *most* stations (except maybe Tottenham Hale - Seven Sisters and King's Cross - Euston - Warren Street), in rush hour a new train pulls in literally 30 seconds after the first one leaves, every single station except Pimlico has either a connection to another line, an Overground connection, or a National Rail connection, there is a slight uphill ramp into most stations to allow the train to slow down naturally, and a ramp down when leaving to allow it to speed up easier and lastly, keen observers will notice that the two lines do not actually run parallel, but cross each other at various points (notice the doors opening on different sides depending on stations), this I believe is done so that at certain stations the most obvious change over is directly in front of you when leaving the train (Euston to Northern Line), which is very well planned.

  • @meijiturtle3814
    @meijiturtle3814 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    😮I used the Victoria Line daily between Warren St. and Victoria for 28 years and wholeheartedly agree with you. At the very least the platforms at Victoria should have been double width combined with 5 escalators and double sized circulating areas. Nobody seemed to have foreseen that Victoria was actually an international station as well as a major commuter station by virtue of its direct connection to the UK's second largest airport , Gatwick. It's a wonder that there were no major pile ups of passengers on the crowded escalators with international travellers fiddling around with luggage while commuters piled up behind them off the escalator.

    • @ballyhigh11
      @ballyhigh11 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      When the line opened Victoria was also an international station by virtue of it being the terminus of the boat train to and from Paris Gare du Nord.

  • @teecefamilykent
    @teecefamilykent 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thank you for a great informative video sir!

  • @Andrewjg_89
    @Andrewjg_89 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Crossrail 2 would be like the Victoria Line and Northern Line with extension from Wimbledon to Chessington South, Shepperton, Epsom and Hampton Court and extension to New Barnet and to Hertford East, Harlow Town & Stansted Airport.

  • @bingbong7316
    @bingbong7316 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I first used the Victoria line shortly after opening in 1968, when it was shiny new and a very slick act. How did we ever live without it?

  • @gsygsy
    @gsygsy 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Fascinating. It's great how you dig up this material for us, Jago.

  • @Gary0557
    @Gary0557 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    I don't know about now, but in the late 80's early 90's, on Sundays, trains from Brixton often terminated at King's Cross. Maybe this was an experiment.

    • @craigthomson3621
      @craigthomson3621 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Sunday services on the Victoria Line in the 1980s were less frequent than Monday to Saturday services. However, on Sundays, there was (and is) considerable demand for travel between Victoria, Euston and King’s Cross / St Pancras. Therefore there was a Victoria to King’s Cross shuttle added to the Sunday schedule.

  • @johnmurray8428
    @johnmurray8428 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    They canned the idea of a spur line leaving/joining it a Seven Sisters and taking/running over the line (which is now overground) to Enfield.

    • @Krzyszczynski
      @Krzyszczynski 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Wow, never heard about that one! But which existing railway would it have (presumably) connected with? There's the Cuffley Loop to the west of town, Enfield Town terminus right in the centre, the Southbury Loop to the east, and finally the Lea Valley Line near the Essex border!

    • @johnmurray8428
      @johnmurray8428 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@Krzyszczynski there was about 1962-3 time a green parliamentary paper (discussion purposes). The MacMillan-Home governments of the day (transport minister Ernie Marples) were all about minimum spending and took it no further.
      The idea was slightly revived by the Wilson government of 1964-65. But again it was discussion only and that is when it finally died.
      The idea centred around a ramp, I assume not unlike the central line at Leytonstone. The objective was to get the tube to Enfield Town. British railways at that time were heavily opposed.
      Some talk in the 1980s I believe involved using the junction at Tottenham Hale to extend services to Northumberland park, mainly for football days and later tunnel to Wood Green, but that died as well.
      It’s all long ago in a city far away for me.

  • @jimtuite3451
    @jimtuite3451 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I remember reading about this at the time and it was refered to as the Albert line

  • @grogugaming3633
    @grogugaming3633 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Love the victoria line

  • @philipgibbard304
    @philipgibbard304 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I seem to remember that following the opening of the Victoria Line, going to see an exhibition complete with a temporary cinema showing a film about the construction at St.James's Station, London Transport's headquarters. Was this the film people refer to being shown latterly by the BBC?

  • @DJcanXx989
    @DJcanXx989 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    Am I the only who is fixated on Jago's 'you are the X to my Y' outros where he thanks his sugar mommies and daddies? I thought for sure I had the right guess in this video, but again I was wrong...😢 One day though, one day.

  • @wad951
    @wad951 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    During construction there was a problem in Blackhorse Road. Blackhorse Road, in the bottom of the Lea (or Lee) valley kept wanting to visit the tube workings underneath. That was the reason given out locally for the late opening.

  • @koksy
    @koksy 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    So wish they had built this. Would end having having to change at Green Park to get to everywhere i usually go.

  • @Discodream
    @Discodream 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    New trains on the Piccadilly line might make it quicker and mean less changes over to the victoria line at finsbury park

  • @MrBillmcminn
    @MrBillmcminn 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Two branches through Central London? Sounds like a Nor-toria line to me!

  • @TheUnknown313
    @TheUnknown313 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I think the only reason why the Victoria Line is still able to run is because of how frequent the service is now. Though that frequency is causing massive overcrowding at other intermediate stations, such as Seven Sisters on the London Overground platforms. Constantly pumping out passengers. Bit of a nightmare to be honest!

  • @kaliou6645
    @kaliou6645 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    1:04 OH MY JAGO😱 thought I clicked on Second Avenue Line video, let me sink through this video first... 🚂 :3

  • @unlapras9365
    @unlapras9365 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is exactly how we got line 14 in Paris : RER A (opened in 1977) was overcrowded so we just decided to build a new automated subway next to it, although it follows a slightly different route. Now it has been extended at both ends line 14 is to become the most patronized line in the network, so with the benefit of hindsight that was a great idea.

  • @TheHoveHeretic
    @TheHoveHeretic 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Much appreciated, as always Mr.H 👍
    Did anyone else listening to the first half of this tale from the tube have the theme tune to 'Soap'* running around their head?
    * Too young? Google search is your friend!

  • @mrbluesky2050
    @mrbluesky2050 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Had it been done, then perhaps the Victoria and Albert lines ???

  • @shekelstein8014
    @shekelstein8014 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I think this actually would’ve made the problem worse. In order to get to North London from South London, you would have to change at Victoria or King’s Cross. This would only add more pressure on already overcrowded stations.

  • @jeremypreece870
    @jeremypreece870 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    What a great idea! Duplicate the Victoria Line, except make it run to different stations and call both parts "the Victoria Line". Not at all confusing for people who visit London, I mean no one has ever been thrown by the Northern Line.

  • @MrGreatplum
    @MrGreatplum 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Interesting video - I used to commute into Victoria station in the mid 2000s and the tube station was being rebuilt then - I think that took 15 years in the end - imagine how long it would take to build a new line there!

  • @tonys1636
    @tonys1636 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Shutting the gates to tube stations is very common to prevent platform overcrowding. Hindsight always has the right answers, foresight often the wrong ones.

    • @paulpenfold2352
      @paulpenfold2352 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes, exactly. And I don't know about anyone else, but those grand tunnels and never changing vistas at Elizabeth line stations make the walking seem very long indeed.

  • @brick6347
    @brick6347 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Wasn't the Victoria line supposed to terminate in Croydon, where Queen's gardens are, but no money? I can't decide if that would've been good or not.

  • @EuroDC1990
    @EuroDC1990 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    A second line between Kings Cross and Victoria would be nice but what's really needed in my opinion is Kings Cross and Liverpool Street to Waterloo.

    • @MrSmith1984
      @MrSmith1984 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Crossrail 2 is supposed to be that line, unfortunately the Tories were too incompetent to actually get it built and Starmer is too stupid to have the courage to get it done.

    • @mrgreatauk
      @mrgreatauk 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@MrSmith1984 I don't think that's true, crossrail 2 plans were for Kings Cross / Euston to Victoria. Might have been some alternative ideas some people had, but the official route was settled.

    • @MrSmith1984
      @MrSmith1984 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@mrgreatauk
      What I meant to say was that while the Current Crossrail 2 Proposals are indeed a Kings Cross to Victoria Line, it could also work as a de facto Liverpool Street/Kings Cross to Waterloo Line as well.
      Especially when one could go from Liverpool Street on the Elizabeth Line to Tottenham Court Road to link up with the Crossrail 2 Line, which in turn links up with various Waterloo Suburban Lines as well.
      Admittedly a better solution would be a Liverpool Street to Waterloo "Crossrail 4" Line.

    • @MartinHunt
      @MartinHunt 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@mrgreataukwaterloo sort of covered in that most (all?) trains leaving from Waterloo stop at Clapham Junction which Crossrail 2 is meant to serve. If you just want to get to Waterloo area and not get a train use Thameslink to Blackfriars and a short walk.

    • @mrgreatauk
      @mrgreatauk 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@MrSmith1984 a future Liverpool Street to Waterloo Crossrail would be pretty cool, and make a lot of sense too... If it went through Clapham Junction too could have the mother of all cross platform interchanges between it and Crossrail 2...

  • @sandrabennett6166
    @sandrabennett6166 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Wonderful ❤

  • @jgodfrey546
    @jgodfrey546 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    No surprise, this B A-nother educational video, jago.

  • @ronalddevine9587
    @ronalddevine9587 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Penny wise pound foolish. It happens here in the USA as well.

    • @emjayay
      @emjayay 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      We don't have pounds though. Well, not that kind.

    • @grassytramtracks
      @grassytramtracks 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@emjayay ok, penny wise, dollar foolish

  • @SturbokSensei
    @SturbokSensei 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    2:46 Your phone vibrated

  • @paintedpilgrim
    @paintedpilgrim 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Lets put the to the signals to red here for a minute.
    Isnt this plan what the have effectively planned for the division of the Northern Line once the "Camden Issue" has been dealt with, just splitting the thing via the branches.
    Id argue that the best way to deal with the congestion on the Victoria line is as you say the Cross Rail 2 project but looking at how long the Purp/Liz Line took, would it also not be prudent to expand Victoria Line platforms and extend stations at both Northern and Southern ends to deal with numbers, one could also argue that extending the Victoria Line south from Brixton as part of this plan could also help, with interchanges at Loughborough Junction, Herne Hill, West Dulwich, Crystal Palace and Norwood Junction. One could also imagine a case then being put forward for the trams being extended upto Norwood Junction and Crystal Palace for better interchange with the Underground and the Overground.
    But then again I would also advocate in the long term for the DLR to extend beyond Lewisham and link in with the Trams as well as the Bakerloo taking over the Hayes branch via Catford bridge and Beckenham.

  • @brettpalfrey4665
    @brettpalfrey4665 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Capacity seems to be an increasing problem..A network of railways and tubes , built mostly in the early 1900s is not going to cut it in the 2020s and beyond..But is there space for more up to date railways in our crowded city?

  • @lassepeterson2740
    @lassepeterson2740 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I think the solution to over crowding is to raise ticket prices to match capacity . BRILLIANT ! I have always matched my use to slow periods of the day because I like trains but H..... the others , passengers that is , so what's the difference ? I actually ended up earning more money that way but that is another story . It's called adaptation . Anyways I used the Victoria line allot at times and wonder how people lived without it . But they did .

  • @GamerFlair
    @GamerFlair 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Finsbury Park is effected worse then Walthamstow Central in my experience. I can't speak for Victoria, I never went that far, but I used to use the line every day from Walthamstow to Finsbury and Finsbury was by far the worst for overcrowding issue (Amplified to a ridicuously degree on match days).

  • @timw.8452
    @timw.8452 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    For passengers, the Victoria line is hot, noisy, overcrowded and generally unpleasant. But I admit it's normally very quick & efficient, with trains every 90 seconds or so.
    But I travel from my home in SE London to NE London several times a month, and I now do my best to avoid it, even if my journey - which then usually involves Thameslink and/or Overground - takes a bit longer. If we can't afford Crossrail 2, let's at least have air-conditioned and sound-proofed trains.

    • @emjayay
      @emjayay 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Air conditioned, uh, carriages don't magically disappear the heat. They move it from inside to outside: tunnels and stations. And they pick up heat on sunny days in the outdoor parts and then stick some of it into the tunnels. New York City air conditioned all its subways by about forty years ago without doing much about the ventilation part. It can get up to 115 F (46 Celsius) on some deep platforms. So it's not so simple. London of course has the early stations with openings and outdoor bits for ventilating steam trains. Aren't those getting AC already? Fortunately I've only been in London around springtime.

    • @MrSmith1984
      @MrSmith1984 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      We can afford to build Crossrail 2, it's just that certain governments don't want to spend money on infrastructure.

  • @From_Keyboard_to_Journey
    @From_Keyboard_to_Journey 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    What a great video

  • @SimonLiddo
    @SimonLiddo 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Fascinating 😊

  • @birdbrain4445
    @birdbrain4445 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Another commenter noted it, but it's remarkable that despite being the shoestring Tube line, the Victoria Line has more than proved its worth and is remarkably well-designed; making its many interchanges function so well when working with relatively little money is impressive. From what I can tell, basically all of the main problems with it stem from the fact the stations had to be built on the cheap and unlike say, the later Jubilee Line extension and Northern Line Battersea extension the stations were not future-proofed, as you say.
    It's a pity - it's a very crucial link in London's transport, it was literally designed to be nothing but interchanges. If any line needed big stations, the Victoria would be it. If only tight-fisted, myopic officials could have understood that - the concept of long-term investment paying dividends later on (that an expensive second line was even proposed should tell you as much), investing in public transport leading to increased ridership, and not working under the belief that the railways would decline in ridership with time.
    That last one is reflected in one simple fact: comparatively quiet outer suburban stations towards the end of their lines like Morden, Gants Hill, Arnos Grove and Uxbridge built in the 1920s-40s were given such magnificent buildings, yet the Victoria Line as a whole got no such love during its design. Crucial interchanges in central London like Westminster or Canary Wharf built in the '90s were given the works and designed with the future in mind (such that they still feel modern and work well even now), yet the Victoria Line's central London stations have to struggle on without that foresight, with their bare minimum for the 1960s designs.
    You watch - eventually they'll have to rebuild the stations on the line, one by one. Short term gains for long term losses, the bad habit we never seem quite able to shake.
    Great video!

  • @tom201090
    @tom201090 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I frequently use the Victoria Line between Oxford Circus and Victoria and I have to say, when it comes to the Northbound platform at Victoria, it is way to narrow. Even off peak it fills up quite quickly. Even though often the headway between trains is less than two minutes.

  • @ADAMEDWARDS17
    @ADAMEDWARDS17 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    One often suggested plan to improve the through put of trains on the Victoria line is a loop south of Brixton to Herne Hill which would enable to trains to turn around without reversing. It would also mean Herne Hill would be a much more important interchange. Excuse to use any footage of Herne Hill station i think...

  • @peteregan3862
    @peteregan3862 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Jago, central city terminal stations are the great inefficiency of rail networks. National and city governments must work together to link up city terminal stations underground and cut Tube demand and tube trains by a third. Outer metropolitan and rural areas are the place to depot and turn around intercity trains, after they have passed through the city. In doing this, the islands of Great Britain and Ireland need rail grids that cover the islands with the spacing of the grid lines determined by population density. The grid lines should string together cities and towns and run automated at high frequency so people can get door-to-door quickly with little waiting. People hate interchange, but interchange is efficient and delivers faster door-to-door for most people.

    • @erikthenorviking8251
      @erikthenorviking8251 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      As a native of 'ull, I am sure Philip Larkin wrote
      "Interchange... began for me
      In nineteen hundred and sixty three."
      A true Paragon of Interchange!!

  • @lewistrahar1958
    @lewistrahar1958 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I just want to hear, see you again soon for another taaale from the tuuube! I mean it snuck in there but I beg of thee o lord Jago!

  • @ala2348
    @ala2348 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The line is going to be extend for passengers to northumberland park on spurs match days.
    Waiting for stadium sponsorship

  • @DavidShepheard
    @DavidShepheard 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Building the Victoria Line on the cheap was an expensive mistake.
    We need to ban construction of new deep level tube lines and require that any new lines come up to the Crossrail standard.
    Eventually, all the existing tube lines will need to be upgraded to take full-size trains. This will not be an easy thing to do. But it is the only way to make the Underground work for the next century.
    In the meantime, we should probably be focusing on building networks like London Underground and London Overground in the various other cities in the UK.

  • @rolandcalliste526
    @rolandcalliste526 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    What about extension of the Victoria Line from Brxton to Croydon?

  • @plodplod
    @plodplod 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Aw, I was expecting "you are the line A to my line B"

  • @cv990a4
    @cv990a4 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I do like these tales of UK rail/metros futures past...

  • @wickiezulu
    @wickiezulu 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Cannot see the point if Chelney / Crossrail 2 were to use that particular section, that is not to say aspects of the former could not have been incorporated to the Victoria both south as well as north. With northward proposals to Woodford / South Woodford going on to relieve the Hainault Loop, if not more ambitiously to Thamesmead via Ilford, Barking and Creekmouth / Barking Riverside inspired by the SL2 Bus route as well as the DLR and Overground proposals to Thamesmead.

  • @kevanhubbard9673
    @kevanhubbard9673 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    A bit like how the Northern Line is split in the centre of London.

    • @marcelwiszowaty1751
      @marcelwiszowaty1751 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Although of course that came about for a different reason... joining two originally separate lines together.

  • @JamesBrown-zu8iv
    @JamesBrown-zu8iv 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    However Crossrail 2 was a whole consultation account.

  • @mickeydodds1
    @mickeydodds1 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +31

    Apparently, way back in the early 1960s, the crucial factor leading to the Victoria Line getting the nod from central government was not the perceived need of London commuters, but giving support to the depressed iron and steel industry of the north of England.

    • @Mainyehc
      @Mainyehc 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And yet they still built it to the deep-level tube standard instead of using a larger diameter compatible with sub-surface line stock 🤦‍♂️

  • @fisk0
    @fisk0 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Huh, that A and B line sounds a bit like the changes that are currently being made to the Stockholm metro (to be completed around 2030), where the Blue line is going to duplicate a section of the Green line, and take over one of the three Green line lines.

  • @Discodream
    @Discodream 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Why not extend it to Woodford so you can exchange with the central line for local journeys

  • @andrewemery4272
    @andrewemery4272 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Possibly the 'Mona Lisa' of Minimalist Linear Cartography?

  • @SilverScroll
    @SilverScroll 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Oh huh, they basically wanted to retrofit express tracks...but not enough of them for throughrunning to be possible, forcing a weird split defeating the purpose. Interesting! I suppose Crossrail 2 is the nicer version of that whole idea that doesn't overcompromise like that!

    •  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I found the lack of a connection between the two halves really odd.

  • @chrisburton9645
    @chrisburton9645 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I think they should add a platform on the other side of the train for alighting passengers - you only need a door's width of foot tunnel - and have the other main platform just for people boarding.
    That would seriously speed things up . . .

    • @ballyhigh11
      @ballyhigh11 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      RMTransit is a big fan of the Spanish Solution :)

  • @richardeyers322
    @richardeyers322 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    just how much can be built underground

    • @caw25sha
      @caw25sha 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      You mean how much earth and rock can they dig out before the city collapses?

  • @munishchopra-evans4419
    @munishchopra-evans4419 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    When I lived in Walthamstow, local historians told us that it was meant to terminate at Wood Street but was scaled back due to cuts.

  • @jackmartinleith
    @jackmartinleith 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Lovely video. I don't buy the Northumberland Park depot issue. The lines would be conceptually distinct but connected at Victoria and Kings Cross, wouldn't they?

  • @shero113
    @shero113 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I love the interchanges with the Northern Line, makes the Victoria Line my line of choice, to that part of London. However, as a suggestion, how about the two really rather sensible extension proposals. One at the south, one stop, to Herne Hill, for the British Railways station, and the other, which is far more likely, using the depot for a new station to serve a football stadium there, at Northumberland Park

  • @petermatyas4834
    @petermatyas4834 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I mean, these tiny trains in narrow tunnels... what were they thinking in the 20the century?

  • @Diptera_Larvae
    @Diptera_Larvae 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I love the conclusion you came to about not being so cheap when they built the first line then they wouldn’t need to build a second.
    My town did something similar; there is one major artery road from one side of town to the other. They started building a bunch of new suburbs at one end of town to the road needed to be extended to meet the new housing, but they cheeped out and built it with one lane each way.
    The extension was ten years overdue by the time it opened, so not six months later they were back building the second half of the dual carriage way, and some of bridges and fly overs required major changes due to their small size from the build the first time around.

    • @billsinkins361
      @billsinkins361 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      "There's never enough time/money to do it right, but there's always enough time/money to do it over" said someone clever