Timemore has zero retention if you RDT first, use brush to sweep rhe bean crumbs into the chute after it grinds, and turn knocker a few times as it grinds and after. Perfect for espresso and filter. Good mouth feel.
I think a lot of reviewers arent nearly critical enough of grinders in their reviews, and I really havent seen an emphasis on price to performance in 99% of popular youtube reviews for grinders and machines alike. for example. I still see people recommend the barzata encore and fellow opus while the SK40 and D40+ remain relatively unrecommended despite being the objectively better grinders for the same price. I think a lot of it comes from wanting to be inoffensive as possible and try to not hammer down a hard opinion or recommendation based on value proposition, for fear of upsetting manufacturers and consumers alike. Although Hoffman buys his own stuff, I dont think he wants to come across as a dick to the manufacturers anyways or use his influence to hurt some newer grinder makers who're trying to make new ideas work. I also dont think he wants to tell his audience that they potentially wasted their money on a product, regardless if they did or not. personally I think its important to have one source put out a hard opinion about what THE best grinder is for the money, and should be torching some of the grinders still being sold at outrageous prices like the Lagom P64. The timemore isn't bad but the problem is that Ningbo Frigga is moving the value proposition so fast that a smaller company who's onset of the 064s project was probably over 2 years ago cant match the costs that Ningbo Frigga is getting for quality manufacturing, as well as more direct access to the factories so that new models and designs can be pushed out fast. the df64 gen 2 is better than the timemore on features that matter like antistatic and easy burr swapping (the 400 rpm adjustment range is pretty lame and useless imo, 800rpm wont be slow enough to reduce fines in the way that uninformed users may be expecting them to, you need 300rpm to maximize it. DF64 also perfectly fits an aeropress under it which is relevant for a lot of coffee drinkers), price, wait time, and convenience. DF64 gen 2, DF83/83V should be the automatic grinder recommendations since they maximize the buyer's dollar to the fullest extent while not compromising on anything. BUT if you managed to get one of the kickstarter $300 grinders, I think you got a really good deal and I'd recommend the grinder at that price if the anti-static and bellows isn't critical to you. but they will only sell so many grinders below MSRP, after that, value proposition is gone. You can buy open-box df64 gen 2 from espressoOutlet for $350 too I still RDT my beans in df64 gen 2 even with the anti-static since it helps with grind consistency by reducing static in the burrs itself as per that RDT study, de-ionizer only works once it leaves the burrs. so far I have no issues with RDT water in the grinder after 3 months of use
Prices vary in the world. Eureka and Niche are much cheaper in Europe. The Chinese brands are the only brands that are universally similar priced and that affects it quite a lot. In Canada the price of a specialita is much more than a df64 but in Europe its much less. And it's arguable more feature packed
@@ShayanGivehchian if you're able to get a eureka for much much cheaper than a df64 gen 2, then yea thats a solid deal that offers a very outstanding price/performance ratio and should be a consideration for sure. chinese grinders are pretty much the only grinder in america that clearly stands ahead of the pack, which was what the timemore 064s was *supposed* to be when it was originally conceived. these chinese makers move fast and cheap, its hard to keep up.
Sorry I missed your live feed. Sounded like the Timemore has a weak motor, and would not do well especially with light roasts. My espresso journey started many years ago, and I have had the Mazzer Mini-timer (58mm) for many years. One 1600RPM speed, solid as a rock. Yes, it is a cafe grinder, not really for home use. I want something that is the equivalent of the Mazzer, and do not know where to turn.
Aren't you in the Phoenix area? If you'd like to make a quick video using the Urbanic, I'm happy to bring mine over to loan to compare its performance with these two. It's all stock, I just have it plugged in to a speed controller to slow it down. I just checked, and the price on the urbanic has just been increased to $199. I paid $170 for mine.
I'm interested in the df64 gen 2. Would the ode gen 2 burrs fit in the df64 gen 2? I think they would be a less expensive option that would be good for filter brews.
I have the 078 - but had i not gotten the ks price - then DF64G2 - smaller burrs and not filter focused I know but upgrades are plenty. I don't like the static and it retains too much without using the knocker and way too messy without rdt. Humidity plays in im sure, i have cleaned my 078 after 1kg use and see no big issues with my rdt addiction, but i purge as much out as possible and knock out while it runs and go till timeout all the time..
I love to have one. Trying to find better pricing. You could spend 350 on Chinese website. However that's 230v version. You might need to get an transformer to 110v.
the timemore looks pretty cool, and sounds a lot quieter. I just got the df64 gen 2 and am pretty happy with it. if I need to replace it, I'd look at the timemore if it were more available in canada.. til then I'm just happy to see more options for consumers! Hard to go wrong these days with any of them.
Thanks for the great video. When it comes to performance for the price, I'm very happy with my Urbanic. For the $500, I can buy two Korean Urbanics, a set of filter burrs for the 2nd one, and a speed controller to make them variable speed. I'd like to see a heads-up comparison of these with the cheaper Urbanic grinder to convince me why I should spend more than twice the money for either of these, other than to be on the trend wave.
I think the df-Series has too much issues. I used the DF64P and hated the workflow. Too much static, the Flapper doesnt work well (cluging issue), cluging chute. The df grinders are cheap and has good skales for dialing in. But you have to Upgrade These grinders for a better workflow. That sucks :D After i bought the DF64P it was a Crazy downgrade for the workflow, compared with eureka mignon
well yea no offense, but you bought the wrong DF grinder lol. the 64P doesn't have the new de-ionizer, which works great and they changed the declumper design to a much better one than the silicone in the 64P. I'd recommend trying out the gen 2 or df83/83v, I think you'll enjoy the workflow improvement. AFAIK the 64P also has a smaller adjustment range than the gen 1 and 2 df64 but I could be wrong on that. the DF grinders *had* issues but they've since been remedied, aside from the issue with the df64 gen 2 power button which luckily is easily remedied and covered by warranty. DF83V seems outstanding as well. personally i never had a clogged chute on my df64 gen 2 unless I was grinding the oiliest, most burnt sludge Kirkland French Roast beans for breaking in my SSP burrs. declumping was fine on stock italmill burrs, I notice SSP burrs having more clumping but I think thats just the burr itself.
@@jeef16 I don't think the DF64P is the worst DF grinder. You're right about the range. I just think that ppl can't complain if an "espresso only" grinder can't make filter coffee. The big problem with the chute and the declumper is not only part of the DF64P, but also of the df64 and df83. Even with the df83 g2, the chute clogs because nothing has changed in the design. Only the ioniser has been added. Even this is not enough for rdt to be completely omitted. Regarding the declumcer: My df64p didn't had a silicone one, but an aluminium one. There is a lot of discussion in the German forums about the declumper of the turin grinders, because many see this as a problem. With the df64v and df83v, I think they have completely solved the problem, as the slide can be easily removed and the "classic" df declumpers are no longer used. However, I'm not entirely sure about this statement because I haven't seen the declumpers yet. Please don't get me wrong: I like the Turin grinders and they are doing a lot right with the new V versions. Hopefully they will stick to this concept for a while and not bring out new models every year. Thanks for your opinion and have a nice coffee-day 😊
at last the Timemore 064s (300$ from KS) got sent me , hopefully will see it in 2-3 weeks . this price includes shipping and taxes which is incredible , but I'm waiting for over 6 months..
I use my 064s for filter to espresso to cezve. Zero retention, compact, quiet operation, and good workflow.
Timemore has zero retention if you RDT first, use brush to sweep rhe bean crumbs into the chute after it grinds, and turn knocker a few times as it grinds and after.
Perfect for espresso and filter. Good mouth feel.
I think a lot of reviewers arent nearly critical enough of grinders in their reviews, and I really havent seen an emphasis on price to performance in 99% of popular youtube reviews for grinders and machines alike. for example. I still see people recommend the barzata encore and fellow opus while the SK40 and D40+ remain relatively unrecommended despite being the objectively better grinders for the same price. I think a lot of it comes from wanting to be inoffensive as possible and try to not hammer down a hard opinion or recommendation based on value proposition, for fear of upsetting manufacturers and consumers alike. Although Hoffman buys his own stuff, I dont think he wants to come across as a dick to the manufacturers anyways or use his influence to hurt some newer grinder makers who're trying to make new ideas work. I also dont think he wants to tell his audience that they potentially wasted their money on a product, regardless if they did or not. personally I think its important to have one source put out a hard opinion about what THE best grinder is for the money, and should be torching some of the grinders still being sold at outrageous prices like the Lagom P64. The timemore isn't bad but the problem is that Ningbo Frigga is moving the value proposition so fast that a smaller company who's onset of the 064s project was probably over 2 years ago cant match the costs that Ningbo Frigga is getting for quality manufacturing, as well as more direct access to the factories so that new models and designs can be pushed out fast. the df64 gen 2 is better than the timemore on features that matter like antistatic and easy burr swapping (the 400 rpm adjustment range is pretty lame and useless imo, 800rpm wont be slow enough to reduce fines in the way that uninformed users may be expecting them to, you need 300rpm to maximize it. DF64 also perfectly fits an aeropress under it which is relevant for a lot of coffee drinkers), price, wait time, and convenience. DF64 gen 2, DF83/83V should be the automatic grinder recommendations since they maximize the buyer's dollar to the fullest extent while not compromising on anything. BUT if you managed to get one of the kickstarter $300 grinders, I think you got a really good deal and I'd recommend the grinder at that price if the anti-static and bellows isn't critical to you. but they will only sell so many grinders below MSRP, after that, value proposition is gone. You can buy open-box df64 gen 2 from espressoOutlet for $350 too
I still RDT my beans in df64 gen 2 even with the anti-static since it helps with grind consistency by reducing static in the burrs itself as per that RDT study, de-ionizer only works once it leaves the burrs. so far I have no issues with RDT water in the grinder after 3 months of use
Prices vary in the world. Eureka and Niche are much cheaper in Europe. The Chinese brands are the only brands that are universally similar priced and that affects it quite a lot. In Canada the price of a specialita is much more than a df64 but in Europe its much less. And it's arguable more feature packed
@@ShayanGivehchian if you're able to get a eureka for much much cheaper than a df64 gen 2, then yea thats a solid deal that offers a very outstanding price/performance ratio and should be a consideration for sure. chinese grinders are pretty much the only grinder in america that clearly stands ahead of the pack, which was what the timemore 064s was *supposed* to be when it was originally conceived. these chinese makers move fast and cheap, its hard to keep up.
I'm really curious about the LAGOM mini Compact Coffee Grinder. It looks like it would be great on a boat. Do you have one? What do you think?
I put in my order at Turin for the df83 gen 2, right around Christmas and it’s still have the 3-6 weeks wait
Sorry I missed your live feed. Sounded like the Timemore has a weak motor, and would not do well especially with light roasts. My espresso journey started many years ago, and I have had the Mazzer Mini-timer (58mm) for many years. One 1600RPM speed, solid as a rock. Yes, it is a cafe grinder, not really for home use. I want something that is the equivalent of the Mazzer, and do not know where to turn.
What rpm for the noise test? Were both rpms equal?
Aren't you in the Phoenix area? If you'd like to make a quick video using the Urbanic, I'm happy to bring mine over to loan to compare its performance with these two. It's all stock, I just have it plugged in to a speed controller to slow it down. I just checked, and the price on the urbanic has just been increased to $199. I paid $170 for mine.
Be happy with your grinder and no need for validation from your favorite influencer.
I'm interested in the df64 gen 2. Would the ode gen 2 burrs fit in the df64 gen 2? I think they would be a less expensive option that would be good for filter brews.
I have the 078 - but had i not gotten the ks price - then DF64G2 - smaller burrs and not filter focused I know but upgrades are plenty. I don't like the static and it retains too much without using the knocker and way too messy without rdt. Humidity plays in im sure, i have cleaned my 078 after 1kg use and see no big issues with my rdt addiction, but i purge as much out as possible and knock out while it runs and go till timeout all the time..
I love to have one. Trying to find better pricing. You could spend 350 on Chinese website. However that's 230v version. You might need to get an transformer to 110v.
the timemore looks pretty cool, and sounds a lot quieter. I just got the df64 gen 2 and am pretty happy with it. if I need to replace it, I'd look at the timemore if it were more available in canada.. til then I'm just happy to see more options for consumers! Hard to go wrong these days with any of them.
Thanks for the great video. When it comes to performance for the price, I'm very happy with my Urbanic. For the $500, I can buy two Korean Urbanics, a set of filter burrs for the 2nd one, and a speed controller to make them variable speed. I'd like to see a heads-up comparison of these with the cheaper Urbanic grinder to convince me why I should spend more than twice the money for either of these, other than to be on the trend wave.
Can't beat the DF64V
I hear timemore are releasing a 0% retention hammer 😂you’ll have to order one hoon 👍🏻
I think the df-Series has too much issues. I used the DF64P and hated the workflow. Too much static, the Flapper doesnt work well (cluging issue), cluging chute. The df grinders are cheap and has good skales for dialing in. But you have to Upgrade These grinders for a better workflow. That sucks :D
After i bought the DF64P it was a Crazy downgrade for the workflow, compared with eureka mignon
well yea no offense, but you bought the wrong DF grinder lol. the 64P doesn't have the new de-ionizer, which works great and they changed the declumper design to a much better one than the silicone in the 64P. I'd recommend trying out the gen 2 or df83/83v, I think you'll enjoy the workflow improvement. AFAIK the 64P also has a smaller adjustment range than the gen 1 and 2 df64 but I could be wrong on that. the DF grinders *had* issues but they've since been remedied, aside from the issue with the df64 gen 2 power button which luckily is easily remedied and covered by warranty. DF83V seems outstanding as well. personally i never had a clogged chute on my df64 gen 2 unless I was grinding the oiliest, most burnt sludge Kirkland French Roast beans for breaking in my SSP burrs. declumping was fine on stock italmill burrs, I notice SSP burrs having more clumping but I think thats just the burr itself.
@@jeef16 I don't think the DF64P is the worst DF grinder. You're right about the range. I just think that ppl can't complain if an "espresso only" grinder can't make filter coffee. The big problem with the chute and the declumper is not only part of the DF64P, but also of the df64 and df83. Even with the df83 g2, the chute clogs because nothing has changed in the design. Only the ioniser has been added. Even this is not enough for rdt to be completely omitted. Regarding the declumcer: My df64p didn't had a silicone one, but an aluminium one. There is a lot of discussion in the German forums about the declumper of the turin grinders, because many see this as a problem. With the df64v and df83v, I think they have completely solved the problem, as the slide can be easily removed and the "classic" df declumpers are no longer used. However, I'm not entirely sure about this statement because I haven't seen the declumpers yet. Please don't get me wrong: I like the Turin grinders and they are doing a lot right with the new V versions. Hopefully they will stick to this concept for a while and not bring out new models every year.
Thanks for your opinion and have a nice coffee-day 😊
P64 for me is still the king of home focused grinder
King maybe, but not value king. Expensive grinder.
at last the Timemore 064s (300$ from KS) got sent me , hopefully will see it in 2-3 weeks . this price includes shipping and taxes which is incredible , but I'm waiting for over 6 months..
Zerno blind bro 😎 is where it’s at and going.
Used one. Totally
Disagree.