Im a latecomer to the forge, but your scientific approach is the best way for me to comprehennd what's happening to the metal, and thus shape my understanding before I move metal. Of all the mentors I have seen on videos like this your clear and to the point information is the best! Thank you for taking the time and effort to prepare these for us newbies!
I'm just starting to experiment with forge welding , the under standing I had set it fast and keep it hot . But your testing is a big leap forward for me thank you . :)
not lost. Many bladesmiths have told me this. Also, take above welding temperature and let soak for 10 minutes or so and it gets a lot stronger. Finally, cycling up and down a few times resets grains across the weld boundary, and that makes the weld stronger. If you do this, it becomes a metallic bond, not a mechanical bond, I think. I was a chem major in 1990-1992 but I don't remember it all. Great video. Hope you like the comments. I love your channel.
Thanks for the info. I do want to update these videos but I need to find someone who can stay awake while reading this stuff to help me out. It sounds like you have a lot of good research that needs to get out there. If you are interested - let me know.
let me refresh my own information about metallic bonding and such, and I will get something to you. I don't have any neat video experiments to show, just a lot of reading and a lot of forge welding. I do pattern welded swords, so I mean a LOT of forge welding. i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/thor2888/4-bar%20grosse%20messer%20wip/grossemessercoopColwell_140809-web.jpg
Normalizing, but specifically start at a higher heat and cool in air with most steels. Then go to a lower heat and repeat, and then go just above critical for that steel and repeat one last time. This gets all alloying elements dissolved and evenly distributed, and then it gets the grain refined and as small as you can. The thermo cycling is specifically this combination of heating and cooling. It begins with high heat and a soak to dissolve alloy elements and get as much distribution as possible throughout. That includes, but is not limited to, across the weld boundary. Then, a couple of more heat-soak-cool to black cycles. The last cycle should be just a little above critical for that steel. This process also sets medium and high carbon steel up to be hardened to optimal results. For example, I use W2 a lot in bladesmithing. Normalize the first time at 1650 F or so. Next time at 1500. Next time at 1460. After that, it is ready to harden. In all steels, it creates a fine and even grain structure. In welded surfaces, it helps to get maximal diffusion and re-alignment of grain boundaries (or at least getting them to not all follow the weld seem in that area).
kevin colwell thank you so much! do you know how hard i should be hitting a billet of damascus? i got mixed results from slow taps...idk what else to do
Let me say that it is better than what most TH-camrs CALL science. Only he is actually using the scientific method. Sorry. I was being sarcastic there. This is real science. Hypothesis. experiment. data...working theory. good stuff.
It’s incredible to watch your videos... I just purchased my first wood forge and I am very excited to get started learning ...the basic and not so basic concepts In your videos have been very educational thank you for that
Not at all. I really appreciate you doing this. I left your last comment in the spam folder ( anything with links goes to spam) so I don't loose track of it. I haven't had a chance to go through it yet but I definitely received it and it looks very interesting. If you could email me directly with one of the addresses I have listed at the end of each video it would make it easier for me to ask questions and continue this conversation. Thanks
Hello again, I hope you are still watching my videos. I have somehow lost your contact info. I want to remake my original forge welding video to include the information you sent me and I want to ask your permission to use it as well as give you credit for it. Please email me when you get a chance thanks. df.intheshop.messages@gmail.com
Thank you for bringing this technique of forge welding to My understanding ! Great Video, Very informative ! Thanks again Take Care and Be Safe ! Keep Hammering !
Thanks you very much Sir, absolutly amazing way to explain and give knowing to others. I am very gratefull and i hope you be okay and safe. God bless you!
If i remember. Forges are well able to reach the temperature where iron changes crystal structure. When you first set the weld you joun the 2 pieces but their crystal structures dont fully interconnect. My guess woukd be the extra heats after help the crystals grow across the weld seam
+Df - In The Shop Great video. Love that you're putting these together for new and old smiths alike. I did have one question. After the initial forge weld was made, did you simply reheat the material 2 separate times to forge weld temp with no additional hammering or was there any subsequent hammering during secondary heats? Thanks
If you took the piece being welded and went directly from the forge to a vice, clamped down and left it for a few minutes, do you think the weld would be successful ?
I don't believe it would. This test tried to demonstrate that keeping the weld at a high heat longer improves the weld. Putting it in a vice would cool it down too quickly to have any noticeable benefit.
Question, is the weld improved ONLY by being at or near welding heat for a longer period, or in combination with heat and reworking the joint by extra mechanical forging?
I believe the time and forging at welding heat is the most important. If the two surfaces are not fully joined the extra forging at a lower heat will stress the weld joint not strengthen it.
excuse me man I try to do the same thing as you but I can't ... can you explain what it means to you 1 -2 or 3 forging temperatures applied? that is, when you use borax when you hit the hammer and how often do you apply the process? .... I tried several times or even left the material for a few minutes in the forge but then the loop breaks off in the latch or with the help of a chisel .... the piece of metal that we want to forge has a relatively small size if we repeat the process three times at least it becomes too thin !!!!!? .... anyway I didn't succeed even if I hit harder with the hammer. ....
If you are having that much trouble, the problem is most likely your fire. It must be a deep fire that is clean and well packed. The steel also needs to be covered with coke so that the heat surrounds the metal and consumes all the oxygen. If your fire isn't right you won't be able to weld no matter what you try. I have other forge welding videos that walk you through the whole process.
@@df-intheshop330 thank you ...... can I use this coke in a gas forge? .... I ask because I have heard of this method that prevents oxidation and raises the temperature ..... have you tried in the gas forge this thing?
@@df-intheshop330 solved ..... I managed to line the forge with ceramic blanket on the inside ... the metal ends up feeling soft on the hammer plus the sparks appeared .... I managed to forge half an iron loop without using borax .... so it's something ... I'm not satisfied with the interior dimensions I lost space adding the ceramic blanket but I gained the temperature ..... now I'm thinking of changing the dimensions so I can execute my projects .... not only can they forge metal blades but they can also insert large pieces of metal into the forge, which heat up very hard in a minute or two ... the big + is also the low consumption plus that the flame that comes out of the forge together with the heat does not becomes visible .... I am satisfied I hope to change the dimensions and take advantage of the same temperature .....
Christopher Neely this isn't just "like science" it is science. he started with a hypothesis "multiple cycles of heating and forging will make a better forge weld" he didn't simply accept that as fact he moved on to testing. collected data and now we have a theory.
White sand ? does it mean, washed sand ? (as opposed to dirty sand ?) Beach sand is generally not used because of continual wearing through wave action and sand crystals being too rounded ? or is this sand only to be avoided in concreting ???
Im a latecomer to the forge, but your scientific approach is the best way for me to comprehennd what's happening to the metal, and thus shape my understanding before I move metal. Of all the mentors I have seen on videos like this your clear and to the point information is the best! Thank you for taking the time and effort to prepare these for us newbies!
Going out to heat my test workpiece two more times. Never heard of adding more flux after tacking to prevent material loss, thank you.
I'm just starting to experiment with forge welding , the under standing I had set it fast and keep it hot . But your testing is a big leap forward for me thank you . :)
not lost. Many bladesmiths have told me this. Also, take above welding temperature and let soak for 10 minutes or so and it gets a lot stronger. Finally, cycling up and down a few times resets grains across the weld boundary, and that makes the weld stronger. If you do this, it becomes a metallic bond, not a mechanical bond, I think. I was a chem major in 1990-1992 but I don't remember it all. Great video. Hope you like the comments. I love your channel.
Thanks for the info. I do want to update these videos but I need to find someone who can stay awake while reading this stuff to help me out. It sounds like you have a lot of good research that needs to get out there. If you are interested - let me know.
let me refresh my own information about metallic bonding and such, and I will get something to you. I don't have any neat video experiments to show, just a lot of reading and a lot of forge welding. I do pattern welded swords, so I mean a LOT of forge welding. i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss231/thor2888/4-bar%20grosse%20messer%20wip/grossemessercoopColwell_140809-web.jpg
kevin colwell what do you mean by cycling up and down? is it normalizing?
Normalizing, but specifically start at a higher heat and cool in air with most steels. Then go to a lower heat and repeat, and then go just above critical for that steel and repeat one last time. This gets all alloying elements dissolved and evenly distributed, and then it gets the grain refined and as small as you can. The thermo cycling is specifically this combination of heating and cooling. It begins with high heat and a soak to dissolve alloy elements and get as much distribution as possible throughout. That includes, but is not limited to, across the weld boundary. Then, a couple of more heat-soak-cool to black cycles. The last cycle should be just a little above critical for that steel. This process also sets medium and high carbon steel up to be hardened to optimal results. For example, I use W2 a lot in bladesmithing. Normalize the first time at 1650 F or so. Next time at 1500. Next time at 1460. After that, it is ready to harden. In all steels, it creates a fine and even grain structure. In welded surfaces, it helps to get maximal diffusion and re-alignment of grain boundaries (or at least getting them to not all follow the weld seem in that area).
kevin colwell thank you so much! do you know how hard i should be hitting a billet of damascus? i got mixed results from slow taps...idk what else to do
Let me say that it is better than what most TH-camrs CALL science. Only he is actually using the scientific method. Sorry. I was being sarcastic there. This is real science. Hypothesis. experiment. data...working theory. good stuff.
As always...very well done...like a triple heat. You are a terrific teacher/demonstrator. Thank you for this information.
very awesome tutorial!! I'm just learning forge welding, so to learn this now is very beneficial. thank you
Pretty valuable information, thank you for sharing this
It’s incredible to watch your videos... I just purchased my first wood forge and I am very excited to get started learning ...the basic and not so basic concepts In your videos have been very educational thank you for that
A very thoughtful video. Very nice work!
Thanks
really nice and interesting , and a lot of information about steel in the commentaries -- thanks for your lessons !
DF - I hope you don't mind me putting all of this on the comments for your video. I love the videos you make and the spirit with which they are made.
Not at all. I really appreciate you doing this. I left your last comment in the spam folder ( anything with links goes to spam) so I don't loose track of it. I haven't had a chance to go through it yet but I definitely received it and it looks very interesting. If you could email me directly with one of the addresses I have listed at the end of each video it would make it easier for me to ask questions and continue this conversation. Thanks
Hello again, I hope you are still watching my videos. I have somehow lost your contact info. I want to remake my original forge welding video to include the information you sent me and I want to ask your permission to use it as well as give you credit for it. Please email me when you get a chance thanks. df.intheshop.messages@gmail.com
Proffesional as always thanks sir for sharing your knowledge i learn a lot
Got it. Thanks agen for the much more in depth understanding.
Thank you for bringing this technique of forge welding to
My understanding ! Great Video,
Very informative !
Thanks again
Take Care and Be Safe !
Keep Hammering !
Thanks you very much Sir, absolutly amazing way to explain and give knowing to others. I am very gratefull and i hope you be okay and safe. God bless you!
An excellent and professional video.
A well done experiment!
If i remember. Forges are well able to reach the temperature where iron changes crystal structure. When you first set the weld you joun the 2 pieces but their crystal structures dont fully interconnect. My guess woukd be the extra heats after help the crystals grow across the weld seam
Good video man hopefully I'll be as good as you are at forge welding someday
Would 1 or 2 do better if left in there heat longer before welding it
Parabéns pela enorme capacidade de transferir conhecimento.O Senhor tem uma excelente didática.
This "diffusion welding," is it the process developed by Dr. Stead about a century (give or take) ago? One hour at 1600 F in a hydrogen atmosphere?
+Df - In The Shop
Great video. Love that you're putting these together for new and old smiths alike. I did have one question. After the initial forge weld was made, did you simply reheat the material 2 separate times to forge weld temp with no additional hammering or was there any subsequent hammering during secondary heats? Thanks
Wonderful job (As always)
If you took the piece being welded and went directly from the forge to a vice, clamped down and left it for a few minutes, do you think the weld would be successful ?
I don't believe it would. This test tried to demonstrate that keeping the weld at a high heat longer improves the weld. Putting it in a vice would cool it down too quickly to have any noticeable benefit.
Is River sand suitable?
Question, is the weld improved ONLY by being at or near welding heat for a longer period, or in combination with heat and reworking the joint by extra mechanical forging?
I believe the time and forging at welding heat is the most important. If the two surfaces are not fully joined the extra forging at a lower heat will stress the weld joint not strengthen it.
excuse me man I try to do the same thing as you but I can't ... can you explain what it means to you 1 -2 or 3 forging temperatures applied? that is, when you use borax when you hit the hammer and how often do you apply the process? .... I tried several times or even left the material for a few minutes in the forge but then the loop breaks off in the latch or with the help of a chisel .... the piece of metal that we want to forge has a relatively small size if we repeat the process three times at least it becomes too thin !!!!!? .... anyway I didn't succeed even if I hit harder with the hammer. ....
If you are having that much trouble, the problem is most likely your fire. It must be a deep fire that is clean and well packed. The steel also needs to be covered with coke so that the heat surrounds the metal and consumes all the oxygen. If your fire isn't right you won't be able to weld no matter what you try. I have other forge welding videos that walk you through the whole process.
@@df-intheshop330
thank you ...... can I use this coke in a gas forge? .... I ask because I have heard of this method that prevents oxidation and raises the temperature ..... have you tried in the gas forge this thing?
@@df-intheshop330
solved ..... I managed to line the forge with ceramic blanket on the inside ... the metal ends up feeling soft on the hammer plus the sparks appeared .... I managed to forge half an iron loop without using borax .... so it's something ... I'm not satisfied with the interior dimensions I lost space adding the ceramic blanket but I gained the temperature ..... now I'm thinking of changing the dimensions so I can execute my projects .... not only can they forge metal blades but they can also insert large pieces of metal into the forge, which heat up very hard in a minute or two ... the big + is also the low consumption plus that the flame that comes out of the forge together with the heat does not becomes visible .... I am satisfied I hope to change the dimensions and take advantage of the same temperature .....
really liked this video, very good info! thanks
Great stuff!!
excellent
Thank you
awesome you the man
awsome.
Awesome. It's like science only better!:)
Christopher Neely this isn't just "like science" it is science. he started with a hypothesis "multiple cycles of heating and forging will make a better forge weld"
he didn't simply accept that as fact he moved on to testing. collected data and now we have a theory.
What type of metal did you use for the test?
I did the test with a 3/8 mild steel round bar. No grinding or prep and 20 mule teem borax ( straight out of the box ) for the flux
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I was taught that it takes more than one heat to forge weld anything, so this stands to reason ,I was taught by a 78 year old man
What is that? Sorry i dont know and i want learn. White sand?
I used 20 Mule Team Borax. On the 1st hammer blow it exploded with sparks so be careful. Perhaps it was too hot. I am learning.
White sand ?
does it mean, washed sand ?
(as opposed to dirty sand ?)
Beach sand is generally not used
because of continual wearing through wave action
and sand crystals being too rounded ?
or is this sand only to be avoided in concreting ???
your theory is also bourne out by the fact that so little faith is put in spot welding by anyone who values quality or uses a descent amount of force.
Make it quick mr.
thank you