I was sent here by Lazerpig from the Challenger video and thought “so how bad is this company?” Then we see an executive curb stomping another of its brands just to prop up his baby, and I realized “Jesus, this is an absolute inexcusable shitshow.”
Also here from Lazerpig, Digi was right in the roundup. Pig just summons people like he's dropping us out of a challenger tank while he cranks 90°s arcoss youtube blasting "LONG LIVE BRITANNICA" drinking water and light wine because he's getting clean.
This is possibly the first youtube or television documentary on the subject of Rover that hasn't caused me to pause and briefly shout venomous expletives into a pillow.
@@IntergalacticBinman I saw a documentary about the Allegro once, the original concept would have been an amazing car, a car of the 80's in the mid 70's - but cost cutting just made it a parts bin special
I enjoyed your deranged ramblings. In 1991/92 I traded in a career as a Vauxhall mechanic to become a Rover mechanic. My gosh that was an eye opener. Even working on a Rover car in a Rover dealership, the parts department couldn’t tell what items were fitted to any given car despite having the chassis and engine numbers, and I’m talking basic stuff like air or oil filters. Then while let’s say you wanted to remove a bolt mounting like an alternator or whatever, well the bolt head would take a 15mm socket, but the nut would need a 13mm. There was such a feel of whatever parts the guys making them could lay their hands on at the time would just go on the cars, and that would be good enough. I was an MOT tester as well, my gosh, the things I saw. I’m with you, BL we’re terrible, they brought Rover down to their level.
Wow, I thought rover were getting their shit sorted by the early 90s, didn't realise it took them that long. BL really did a number on anything it touched. I'm fairly convinced at this point that if Leyland and BMC stayed separate, while we may not still have Rover, Triumph and a handful of other brands, there'd definitely be a lot more to look back and be happy about.
BL were terrible from the late 70s onwards, the earlier stuff wasnt that bad, ive had a few of their cars as have my family and if you stuck to pre 76 stuff, you got some good stuff. I always think its unfair to bash BL entirely, they did bring out some nice stuff. My brother ran his 72 MGB GT through the really frosty weather because his renault clio wouldn't start lol. Even my 72 and 73 spitfires had great engines and aside from breakables with age, ran very well, as did my brothers 75 Rover p6. His 86 mini was pretty reliable as well. So it did have its good years, unfortunately just not after the 70s lol.
@@IntergalacticBinman if Leyland had never bought Rover in 1963 the world would be a far better place. If BMC and Leyland had never merged we'd truly be living in the most blessed timeline imaginable
dude pretty sure your channel was tailor made for me. you share my interest in obscure classic cars, my “brain rotted by the internet” sense of humor, and my burning hatred for margaret thatcher. honestly my new favorite channel, really looking forward to seeing what you put out next!
GM didn’t sell the Buick motor because they couldn’t make it work. They sold it because it cost 11 cents more than a cast iron motor to make, so the bean counters canned it.
That definitely played a part as well, but it did also suffer cooling issues due to GM's inexperience in working with aluminium. That and also 3.5 litres was considered too small.
@@IntergalacticBinman greetings!! Make more of this awesome stuff. The Buick 215 had 4 head bolts per cylinder. The Oldsmobile f85 turbo had 5 bolts per cylinder. I think rover ended up with the 4 bolt one. Reynolds cast the aluminum blocks nearby in upstate New York. They cost more to make; GM had bigger cast iron motors in inventory, ergo, buh-bye 215.. They regretted it.. They also sold the 225 ( which ended up as the 3.8l Buick V6 which was an awesome motor) to jeep. They later bought it back. I have one , the later one when they un-cheaped-out and finally split the crank throws to make it an even-fire. These engines did well in US motor racing. I’m old enough to remember these cars when they were new lol. I commend you on your auto videos, awesome content and yes, I do know what a pain it is to research, collect, clear and edit this hot mess all together. Best wishes from Montreal.
@@papaloongie thanks! Yeah I'm aware of how ubiquitous the 3.8 was in the US. wasn't that the one in the grand national and gnx? And yeah I'd also assume rover would end up with the 4 bolt block as it's pretty easy to assume the 5 bolts for the f85 were to deal with extra pressure from the turbo.
@@IntergalacticBinman yup The 3.8 was blow-thru, a nightmare, made great power. Computers really made turbo management a lot better. We replaced a lot of cooked motors back when. Now you bolt on a $400 Chinese turbo on an LS (gm) motor and make 1000 hp. When it blows up, just get another one out of the junkyard. Make a video about Bristols. Quirky enough for TH-cam, the actually made every nut and bolt themselves. Who uses copper screws?? Lol
@@papaloongie I love Bristols and already planned on making a video on them at some point! There are places reserved in my dream garage for a 411 Series 2 and a Brigand
The 75 was by all means a solid car. In fact I'd quite like one if I'm honest! Just that BMW sold rover off to the phoenix 4 who you will notice I labeled as "cunts" for a split second at the beginning, and as good a car as the 75 was it wasn't going to save the company.
they were never on sale here officially, but I've always found them really handsome in the first series, inside and out. Just because James May didn't like it and thought it was pastiche it seems like that's the car's narrative forever and always.
@@kenon6968 I like them so much I am currently on my 4rth one. 3 saloon's and my current one is a Tourer. They are comfy reliable and under appreciated by the none Rover 75 drivers!
I am a Rover enthusiast and fan. My first car at 17 in Australia was a 1950 Rover 75, followed by 2 1954 Rover 90s. They were all reliable and safe cars for a young driver, later in the 1980s I toyed with buying a modern Rover 75 but settled for a 1987 Honda Legend 2.7 coupe. Great video I drove many Rover 3 litres, 2000s and 3.5 saloons. A friend was sales manager for the Rover dealer in Sydney. Fond memories thank's for the video. My buddy bought a 1958 Rover 105r which was slow but very smooth and quiet. As I said fond memories and I wish we still had cars like these. Well not really but you know what I mean. Air-conditioning, power steering reliability far surpass the cars of the 1950s.
My Grandad had a pale green Rover 75 throughout my childhood, always admired it, he kept it in great condition and it was a very comfortable car to ride in. Unfortunatley he would have an accident and it got written off. After a painstaking search, he managed to find another 75 in dark blue, also in great condition and we were all happy to see a Rover outside his house again. But, in a cruel twist of fate, the new Rover would be crushed by a lorry within a year or so. Seems like the universe just has something against Rover. Nevertheless I always smile when I see one, good memories. Poor Grandad has to make do with some Vauxhall now, couldn't tell you the model, they all look the same.
When people ask me what was wrong with the Soviet Union, I point to BL. External competition breeds better products. Internal competition s destructive and simply ruins things. I was one of the few people who purchased a 1991 Sterling 827ls. I absolutely loved the car and had no problems with it in the entire 325k miles I owned it. Due to it's inherited English reputation and the company no longer here 6 months after the car was sold new, I was able to pick this one up for 80% less than the owner did 3 years prior (only 12k miles on it and as new). It was a sheer pleasure to drive and the most comfortable seats I've ever had and surpassed my various Mercedes and Jaguar.
Well, I'm a Generation X guy who owned a Rover 75 living in Central Europe. It was a 1999 version with leather seats, manual transmission and a V6 engine. Owning sport and sport sedans in the past, I can say a am not fond of grandpas' cars. I actually loved my 75. Great road manners, very reliable, and it felt very ritzy. I guess it does not appeal to brits, but at least here in Germany they were considered very nice. I had a choice of buying a BMW (Big Money Waste), but I rather went with the 75. I regret selling it. Younger times mistake.
I love the idea of forming your very own GM just a few years before GM proved they were too dysfunctional to make decent cars until at least the late 80s
Wasn't sure what to expect next during watching this but I enjoyed your unique approach to this sort of video, totally different to what other car TH-camrs do, it would be easy to recite walls of text from AR Online over some old pictures, but this was funny and original, well done!
Thanks! That's sort of why I make videos the way I do, besides being creative outlets for myself. As much as I love channels like Big Car and Ruairidh MacVeigh, they can sometimes be a bit too dry for my taste. That and I have the attention span of a husky on meth.
I remember rover very fondly. My first car was a rover 25. I loved joking about shoddy english craftsmanship, about how it wouldn't unlock with the button in the key unless you got right up to it, the fact that if it stalled it would mysteriously refuse to start again for 15 minutes, the way the lining of the roof was coming down, how a bunch of things were broken and all that, but even for quite an old car that I had bought for €600 it performed very well. It managed to take me all the way from the Netherlands to northern Sweden with no issues, and then when it was time to go home it allowed me to drop by an old flatmate along the way to go on a date, and because she was living with her parents at the time and hotels and hostels were awfully expensive I lived in the back of my little rover for what probably were the best two weeks of my life. We spent a lot of time in there and it really started to feel like home. I guess any car can do that, but when I think of rover I think of that little car and all it did for me. I still have it by my garage refuses to work on it and all other garages are too busy and my landlord demands I take it out of our parking lot, so I had to sell her to a scrapyard who should be picking her up soon.
I have literally no idea how cars work, but I came here from LazerPig and can confidently say he has exquisite taste; after I spent five minutes pissing myself laughing on the floor. Enjoy the new sub!
Finally a rover video that's not dry as a nunnery. Ive tried to watch so many Rover history videos just to fall asleep or feel my sanity slipping away before the halfway mark.
As a proud owner of a pre-project drive Rover 75 in mint conditions (and only 120km) , and a Rover 420 Sdi bought 0km by my family and still looking and running great, it always breaks my heart to know what happened to this wonderful company, I thoroghly enoyed this video though, cheers from Argentina.
The T4 isn't exactly "based on" the P6, it is the prototype of the P6, The P6 was intended to be sold as a fwd turbine car but it was also deigned with a contingency plan if the Turbine engines weren't market viable, basically they knew they needed a tunnel for the turbine exhaust so they designed the body so that if the turbine project fell through the tooling could still be put to use with conventional(for the time) powertrain lay outs & the exhaust tunnel just becomes a transmission tunnel.
oh my God, the first half of the video just makes the decline and demise of Rover so much more sad - the degree to which it was sabotaged, and to think it could still have been a world-beater today - it’s just frustratingly tragic
20 years ago in car mechanic school I watched that Citroen ad about their suspension. Such a fascinating thing, still one of my favorite looking cars today.
What a surprise this video was! funny, factual, entertaining, and even though I'm bigheaded enough to consider myself a 'car guy' educational..I learnt stuff I never knew, for instance the Avis bit... and I'm old enough to have been there at the time! Thank you brilliant!
Part of me always wondered what would've happened had Leyland been able to avoid the BMC merger entirely and instead acquired a company outside of the UK. Be it a company like Chrysler in the US and offering technical assistance to Detroit to refine the American auto maker's product on a technical level while getting a wider parts catalogue variety and greater access to the North American market or if they acquired a company on the continent to get a greater foothold into Europe be it Saab, DAF, or even NSU before it was force merged into Audi. Maybe the bringing in of outside eyes could've aided in improving critical flaws in the design of the P8 that ended up getting the project to become stillborn before it went to market. Sadly we will never know. Shame really. Great video, Mr. Binman.
"In 1892, Brandon Thomas wrote a famous long-running English farce, what was it?" "British Leyland." The Two Ronnies Mastermind sketch was my first introduction to British Leyland.
honestly fab work mate, loved the video even through to the end. if you can keep up a semi-regular upload schedule I can definitely see this channel going places.
a racing green 216 Cab with the Honda engine was my first car. I LOVED that car, it was fantastic. Rover serves as a f@cking metaphor for this country, stood on the shoulder of giants and pissed it away.....
I'm so glad i came across your channel. Your videos are fucking amazing! i watched your first one and was immediately hooked! I feel exactly the same about "what would otherwise be deranged rambling to my friends" and I just enjoy every second of your videos because I can keep up with all the different directions your brain is going because there's so much information and its hard to get a good picture without knowing the basics, and that is where it all starts. The rabbit hole of the car world and even down to the success or demise of individual car companies. Besides all that, I am going to watch the rest of your videos and will be greatly looking forward to your use of creativity and portrayal with such great humor. Keep doing what you're doing. Thank you
I'm a early 2000's kid, very young I know. But I've been around a Rover(s) my whole life, naturally they've grown on me to now where they're a brand I hold very close to my heart. So much that my first car I bought is a Rover 220. I really enjoyed this video and I just wished more people knew what kind of a company Rover truly was.
In the early 80's in Austria, my dad got a SDI V8 VandenPlas as his company car. I, the half English kid, thought it was better than the 520i BMW he had before, with it's leather and wood, 4 door Daytona styling I loved it. My Austrian engineer dad, definitely didn't think that. Although a series 2 it was plagued with warranty issues. PS: the pig sent me, I've been subdcribed to Classic& Sports Car for over 20 years. You've managed to educate me on certain details that I haven't ever read there. Binging your content now.
Loved the video, especially the BL dramatization lmaoooo. Also, anyone could argue that Jaguar is going through a similar path as Rover did in their BL days. Not financially healthy, shoddy build quality, aging design (compared to the Japanese and German luxury brands), and while they are sporty vehicles, most of the time it’s someone in their 50s or 60s who are behind the wheel (or at least that’s what I see where I live) just like Rover.
Glad you enjoyed it! Imo when ford and subsequently tata bought jaguar they tried to fit jaguar into a BMW shaped hole, and while the xe and xf were damn good cars when they came out they just didn't have the jaaaaag factor.
@@IntergalacticBinman Tata, I agree with that. But back when Ford bought Jaguar, they kept to the mission of trying to preserve the JAAAAG factor as much as possible. I read interviews and testimonies back then that Ford were appalled that Jaguar was still using the outdated and inefficient 50s era tooling to make their cars. And of the nearly 30 million pounds Ford put into Jaguar in development on newer models, including the XJ300, more than half of that went into bringing the production facilities into the (then) modern age. You can see that in the XJ300 itself, it still looked like a Jaguar, still kept the character of the old XJ's still kept the straight-sixes and V12s (however brief), but made sure that it had a proper electrical system, made sure the components worked flawlessly, and didn't have a mess of hoses under the hood that resembled the aftermath of a bad experience at an Italian restaurant. Even today, the XJ300 is still very much a great blend of 90s advancements in quality while still keeping the older JAAAAG Factor, and I bet you anything they will become future classics. (It doesn't hurt they've actually got a far better reputation for reliability than the Jaguar stereotype would suggest) But then Ford built the goddamn "Premiere Auto Group" in the late 90s-Early 2000s. And it all went downhill from there.
@@PredatorPlays4576 Ford were definitely high on their own ego around that time (well they are generally but especially then), one of the main reasons reason they bought Jag in the first place was because GM was about to and they didn't want to let GM get Jaguar, so they kicked down the door and offered double. And yeh, the PAG was a terrible idea from conception. Whoever's idea it was to lump Jag, Volvo, Aston and Lincoln together should have their head examined. To me, the last Jaaaaag was the X351 XJ. Sure, it doesn't have the classic looks, but it was the last that truely combined grace, space and pace.
I'll be honest and say that the prototype coupe of the Leyland P76 is one of the coolest looking cars ever IMO. Granted, as an American, I am contractually obligated to love any vehicle remotely shaped like a muscle car/has a V8.
I am the happy owner of such an old farth 75 , 22 years and in tiptop condition . Have no plans trading it for a modern " playmobile " . Greetings from a Dutch Rovernut .
I had a fully written snarky funny comment about Rover, BL, and that brilliant little aluminum Buick V8. I just couldn’t. I mourn the passing of the British motor car industry. So much brilliance just cast aside like so much stale bread.
I think I mentioned it in your Mazda video but one of these types of video essays on Japans first automotive company, Isuzu the fallen giant of small cars would just tickle my inner car nerd.
I've looked into it and there's definitely stuff I can talk about, there's just a few other topics I'd like to make vids on first, but all things being well I'll get round to it
I know a former Rover and later Chrysler design engineer (if you admire the folding rear seat in the Alpine and Horizon that folded flat in one motion, well he did that). He said of the P8 that it was a bit of a mess, Rover did not know how to do unitary construction in house having relied on Press Steel Fisher before (which you can see with the SD1 panel gaps) apparently it looked like a patch work quilt in bate metal it consisted of so many pressings and describes the overall car as incoherent as a result of being designed by a committee. I think this was what Spen King eludes to.
My friend had a Rover. His dad fixed them and was the only person in my state who "knew" how to fix them. They had three (running! way more in parts) of them on their farm. First car I ever took to 100mph.
Your choice of references and jokes in the visuals feels custom tailored to my cultural diet. its not like the stuff I consume is super obscure, you just hit the perfect mix.
Whenever I hear of mergers like those you described I wonder... How the fluff does the board of the failing company get as much of a say as the one doing well? Especially over the brands that're actually doing quite well for themselves. Clearly they shouldn't be the ones making the decisions if they are the ones in charge of a financial black hole...
It's a game of politics, really. Leyland didn't know the extent to which BMC were in the shitter and BMC weren't gonna let that on because they wanted to still have a say in the new company. On top of that you have corporate culture, managers don't want their bosses to just change entirely without their say, etc. etc. It would be great if it were that simple but unfortunately for reasons completely unbeknownst to us mortals large corporations don't behave with perfect logic all the time and actually we do know it's because they're led by self-serving power hungry psychos.
@@IntergalacticBinman "...it's because they're led by self-serving power hungry psychos." The most succinct answer possible why all corporations are the way they are. It's just a little more obvious in the aftermath of a corporate collapse.
legitimately got sad when i saw the last p8 prototype abandoned like that such a beautiful car completely abandoned and not even preserved for historical reasons :
I went into this not knowing anything about BL or rover aside from the P76 being a pile (we got them here in nz, my grandad had one in the 70s iirc) but did not expect to get so enthralled by rovers plans for world domination. I’m gutted the P8 never made it to production, such a cool sounding car! Nice vid.
Part of Rover and also MG was acquired by SAIC and eventually became known as Roewe in China and became pretty successful, SAIC even exported them back to the UK.
I believe the bizarre angelic figure in that whacky Citroen DS commercial is an artifact of the fact that in French, "DS" was a play on the word for "Goddess", and Citroen actually used that in its official marketing... its really, really unsettling marketing.
The algos led me to this channel and I gotta say, I'm not even sure if I care for the subject of cars as much as I appreciate the presentation. With this style of script and editing you can made pretty much anything wildly entertaining.
Several years ago I found a technical article on the net describing that hydraulic suspension and how it worked. It really was a technical tour-de-force, with the downside that the hydraulic pump consumed a lot of power. When I looked for the page again, I could not find it. This video is the first reference I have found to it since then. There's a whole lot of material here that I did not know of before, such as the 16 valve version of the four, and a scheme to make a 32 valve V-8 derived from it. Rover really were aiming high
I got most of my research from articles on AROnline, the articles go into some description as to how especially the hydraulic anti-roll system worked, it's fascinating stuff
So Glad I found this channel! You are one of the veeeery rare channels, who do something many other channels do but the vids still hit different. I can't really put my finger on why tho :)
as an american, i just wanna say: outside of the land rover and range rover, we never really got rover. but we did get all the other great british cars from jaguar, triumph and austin. british cars have a great reputation in america for quirky yet powerful cars dating back to the second world war, and i'm really surprised rover never really took advantage of that. also british leyland's cost cutting killed chris bell from the band big star. his triumph tr7 malfunctioned and it crashed.
My recent comment was getting rather lengthy; I wanted to add a few extras which I was surprised you didn’t mention in your excellent video. Spec King collared the idea for the jet turbine engine when Sir Frank whittles company, Power Jets, just before WW2 - if they had concentrated more of their attention to manufacturing aviation engines, and convince the government, that the RAF should have had an efficient working engine with which to power their aircraft, the Battle of Britain wouldn’t have been anywhere near as serious a threat.😊
I also read that the air ministry were resistant to support the idea of the jet early on as well, thinking it would be impractical. Typical British establishment being resistant to change, I suppose
@@IntergalacticBinman I mean I agree in peacetime, but considering Britain was in an existential war at the time, you don't exactly want to waste resources on something that may be spectacular, but might also be a high cost, total failure. You want something that's proven to work. And considering how the German government spaffed huge amounts of resources on useless, impractical 'wonder weapons' and ultimately lost the war.
I'll be honest, this video only really covers how BL was a terrible idea in conception, using the kneecapping of Rover as an example, as Rover was the main focus of the video. There's hours of content on TH-cam from plenty of other very talented creators that go in detail about how in execution it was somehow even worse, especially in the mid to late 70s.
One of my friends dad bought a Rover when we were in high school, in the 90’s. He got the car when his dad changes cars 5 years later. It had a slab of wood underneath the passenger seat, because it was rusting so badly there was a hole in the floor.
dont you ever fucking diss the garden centre again
Omg He's mad. He's seething he's so mad.
The Azaleas on isle five are out of alignment...
Must be a member of the local knitting association lol
What he said...
I'll turf you up'Turf you up GOOD.
I was sent here by Lazerpig from the Challenger video and thought “so how bad is this company?” Then we see an executive curb stomping another of its brands just to prop up his baby, and I realized “Jesus, this is an absolute inexcusable shitshow.”
Also here from Lazerpig, Digi was right in the roundup. Pig just summons people like he's dropping us out of a challenger tank while he cranks 90°s arcoss youtube blasting "LONG LIVE BRITANNICA" drinking water and light wine because he's getting clean.
The Pig suggested I go here for context - the unfortunately terrible, terrible context.
This is possibly the first youtube or television documentary on the subject of Rover that hasn't caused me to pause and briefly shout venomous expletives into a pillow.
Professional television network providing an accurate documentary on the British car industry challenge (impossible)
@@IntergalacticBinman I saw a documentary about the Allegro once, the original concept would have been an amazing car, a car of the 80's in the mid 70's - but cost cutting just made it a parts bin special
@@worldcomicsreview354 didn't someone fidle with the light placement that made it look stupid when the fashion was corner lights mark 3 escort ect
@@IntergalacticBinman Or any car industry, look how they treated Lancia
Did you bite the pillow?!
POV: A certain DragLady named BigJackie sent you here.
i love lp so much
I enjoyed your deranged ramblings.
In 1991/92 I traded in a career as a Vauxhall mechanic to become a Rover mechanic.
My gosh that was an eye opener.
Even working on a Rover car in a Rover dealership, the parts department couldn’t tell what items were fitted to any given car despite having the chassis and engine numbers, and I’m talking basic stuff like air or oil filters.
Then while let’s say you wanted to remove a bolt mounting like an alternator or whatever, well the bolt head would take a 15mm socket, but the nut would need a 13mm.
There was such a feel of whatever parts the guys making them could lay their hands on at the time would just go on the cars, and that would be good enough.
I was an MOT tester as well, my gosh, the things I saw.
I’m with you, BL we’re terrible, they brought Rover down to their level.
Wow, I thought rover were getting their shit sorted by the early 90s, didn't realise it took them that long. BL really did a number on anything it touched. I'm fairly convinced at this point that if Leyland and BMC stayed separate, while we may not still have Rover, Triumph and a handful of other brands, there'd definitely be a lot more to look back and be happy about.
BL were terrible from the late 70s onwards, the earlier stuff wasnt that bad, ive had a few of their cars as have my family and if you stuck to pre 76 stuff, you got some good stuff. I always think its unfair to bash BL entirely, they did bring out some nice stuff. My brother ran his 72 MGB GT through the really frosty weather because his renault clio wouldn't start lol. Even my 72 and 73 spitfires had great engines and aside from breakables with age, ran very well, as did my brothers 75 Rover p6. His 86 mini was pretty reliable as well. So it did have its good years, unfortunately just not after the 70s lol.
@@IntergalacticBinman if Leyland had never bought Rover in 1963 the world would be a far better place. If BMC and Leyland had never merged we'd truly be living in the most blessed timeline imaginable
BL stands for "BeLow par" so no surprise there
@@IntergalacticBinman Similar to the demise of Rootes via the Hillman Imp from Glasow, blame the politicians for merging BMC and Jaguar and Leyland.
The British Leyland Jumpscare got me laughing for a solid 5 minutes.
Because of your videos I've been temped to do videos somewhat similar to this.
dude pretty sure your channel was tailor made for me. you share my interest in obscure classic cars, my “brain rotted by the internet” sense of humor, and my burning hatred for margaret thatcher. honestly my new favorite channel, really looking forward to seeing what you put out next!
Don't forget the exceptional music taste!
IT'S A SHAME THAT THE IRA DIDN'T KILL THAT BITCH
Same here man, and the music taste.
Also everyone agrees that the worse car is the Austin Alle-
Great guy
GM didn’t sell the Buick motor because they couldn’t make it work.
They sold it because it cost 11 cents more than a cast iron motor to make, so the bean counters canned it.
That definitely played a part as well, but it did also suffer cooling issues due to GM's inexperience in working with aluminium. That and also 3.5 litres was considered too small.
@@IntergalacticBinman greetings!!
Make more of this awesome stuff.
The Buick 215 had 4 head bolts per cylinder.
The Oldsmobile f85 turbo had 5 bolts per cylinder.
I think rover ended up with the 4 bolt one.
Reynolds cast the aluminum blocks nearby in upstate New York.
They cost more to make; GM had bigger cast iron motors in inventory, ergo, buh-bye 215..
They regretted it..
They also sold the 225 ( which ended up as the 3.8l Buick V6 which was an awesome motor) to jeep. They later bought it back.
I have one , the later one when they un-cheaped-out and finally split the crank throws to make it an even-fire.
These engines did well in US motor racing.
I’m old enough to remember these cars when they were new lol.
I commend you on your auto videos, awesome content and yes, I do know what a pain it is to research, collect, clear and edit this hot mess all together.
Best wishes from Montreal.
@@papaloongie thanks! Yeah I'm aware of how ubiquitous the 3.8 was in the US. wasn't that the one in the grand national and gnx?
And yeah I'd also assume rover would end up with the 4 bolt block as it's pretty easy to assume the 5 bolts for the f85 were to deal with extra pressure from the turbo.
@@IntergalacticBinman yup
The 3.8 was blow-thru, a nightmare, made great power.
Computers really made turbo management a lot better.
We replaced a lot of cooked motors back when.
Now you bolt on a $400 Chinese turbo on an LS (gm) motor and make 1000 hp.
When it blows up, just get another one out of the junkyard.
Make a video about Bristols.
Quirky enough for TH-cam, the actually made every nut and bolt themselves.
Who uses copper screws?? Lol
@@papaloongie I love Bristols and already planned on making a video on them at some point! There are places reserved in my dream garage for a 411 Series 2 and a Brigand
Nothing wrong with the Rover 75 -one of the best saloon designs with a comfortable interior and a BMW Diesel engine .
The 75 was by all means a solid car. In fact I'd quite like one if I'm honest!
Just that BMW sold rover off to the phoenix 4 who you will notice I labeled as "cunts" for a split second at the beginning, and as good a car as the 75 was it wasn't going to save the company.
they were never on sale here officially, but I've always found them really handsome in the first series, inside and out. Just because James May didn't like it and thought it was pastiche it seems like that's the car's narrative forever and always.
@@kenon6968 I like them so much I am currently on my 4rth one. 3 saloon's and my current one is a Tourer. They are comfy reliable and under appreciated by the none Rover 75 drivers!
That bmw diesel was not really the best in class 😅
I am a Rover enthusiast and fan. My first car at 17 in Australia was a 1950 Rover 75, followed by 2 1954 Rover 90s. They were all reliable and safe cars for a young driver, later in the 1980s I toyed with buying a modern Rover 75 but settled for a 1987 Honda Legend 2.7 coupe. Great video I drove many Rover 3 litres, 2000s and 3.5 saloons. A friend was sales manager for the Rover dealer in Sydney. Fond memories thank's for the video. My buddy bought a 1958 Rover 105r which was slow but very smooth and quiet. As I said fond memories and I wish we still had cars like these. Well not really but you know what I mean. Air-conditioning, power steering reliability far surpass the cars of the 1950s.
I forgot I was watching a video about classic british cars because there was a joke at the start instead of reading wiki articles in front of camera
My Grandad had a pale green Rover 75 throughout my childhood, always admired it, he kept it in great condition and it was a very comfortable car to ride in. Unfortunatley he would have an accident and it got written off. After a painstaking search, he managed to find another 75 in dark blue, also in great condition and we were all happy to see a Rover outside his house again. But, in a cruel twist of fate, the new Rover would be crushed by a lorry within a year or so. Seems like the universe just has something against Rover. Nevertheless I always smile when I see one, good memories. Poor Grandad has to make do with some Vauxhall now, couldn't tell you the model, they all look the same.
When people ask me what was wrong with the Soviet Union, I point to BL. External competition breeds better products. Internal competition s destructive and simply ruins things.
I was one of the few people who purchased a 1991 Sterling 827ls. I absolutely loved the car and had no problems with it in the entire 325k miles I owned it. Due to it's inherited English reputation and the company no longer here 6 months after the car was sold new, I was able to pick this one up for 80% less than the owner did 3 years prior (only 12k miles on it and as new). It was a sheer pleasure to drive and the most comfortable seats I've ever had and surpassed my various Mercedes and Jaguar.
Well, I'm a Generation X guy who owned a Rover 75 living in Central Europe. It was a 1999 version with leather seats, manual transmission and a V6 engine. Owning sport and sport sedans in the past, I can say a am not fond of grandpas' cars. I actually loved my 75. Great road manners, very reliable, and it felt very ritzy. I guess it does not appeal to brits, but at least here in Germany they were considered very nice. I had a choice of buying a BMW (Big Money Waste), but I rather went with the 75. I regret selling it. Younger times mistake.
Why did you leave Germany?
Im so glad lazerpig recommended this channel your videos are brilliant! Currently binge watching all your episodes!
Right
he mentioend the channel just today as well
I love the idea of forming your very own GM just a few years before GM proved they were too dysfunctional to make decent cars until at least the late 80s
Wasn't sure what to expect next during watching this but I enjoyed your unique approach to this sort of video, totally different to what other car TH-camrs do, it would be easy to recite walls of text from AR Online over some old pictures, but this was funny and original, well done!
Thanks! That's sort of why I make videos the way I do, besides being creative outlets for myself. As much as I love channels like Big Car and Ruairidh MacVeigh, they can sometimes be a bit too dry for my taste. That and I have the attention span of a husky on meth.
I remember rover very fondly. My first car was a rover 25. I loved joking about shoddy english craftsmanship, about how it wouldn't unlock with the button in the key unless you got right up to it, the fact that if it stalled it would mysteriously refuse to start again for 15 minutes, the way the lining of the roof was coming down, how a bunch of things were broken and all that, but even for quite an old car that I had bought for €600 it performed very well. It managed to take me all the way from the Netherlands to northern Sweden with no issues, and then when it was time to go home it allowed me to drop by an old flatmate along the way to go on a date, and because she was living with her parents at the time and hotels and hostels were awfully expensive I lived in the back of my little rover for what probably were the best two weeks of my life. We spent a lot of time in there and it really started to feel like home.
I guess any car can do that, but when I think of rover I think of that little car and all it did for me. I still have it by my garage refuses to work on it and all other garages are too busy and my landlord demands I take it out of our parking lot, so I had to sell her to a scrapyard who should be picking her up soon.
I have literally no idea how cars work, but I came here from LazerPig and can confidently say he has exquisite taste; after I spent five minutes pissing myself laughing on the floor.
Enjoy the new sub!
"one company, that competed with itself!" 😂😂
This video deserves a like simply because of the inclusion of the "Tony Iommi high AF with a sitar in a bathtub" photo!
I'm here from the Lazerpig video and this is fucking great - 10/10, foaming at the mouth at BL and delighted that the BRM got mentioned
Finally a rover video that's not dry as a nunnery. Ive tried to watch so many Rover history videos just to fall asleep or feel my sanity slipping away before the halfway mark.
As a proud owner of a pre-project drive Rover 75 in mint conditions (and only 120km) , and a Rover 420 Sdi bought 0km by my family and still looking and running great, it always breaks my heart to know what happened to this wonderful company, I thoroghly enoyed this video though, cheers from Argentina.
British Management. Truly a thing to behold. Thanks for the reminder that I should eat more valium.
This is way more informative than even a museum!
The T4 isn't exactly "based on" the P6, it is the prototype of the P6, The P6 was intended to be sold as a fwd turbine car but it was also deigned with a contingency plan if the Turbine engines weren't market viable, basically they knew they needed a tunnel for the turbine exhaust so they designed the body so that if the turbine project fell through the tooling could still be put to use with conventional(for the time) powertrain lay outs & the exhaust tunnel just becomes a transmission tunnel.
Lazer Pig brought me to you... fun stuff
oh my God, the first half of the video just makes the decline and demise of Rover so much more sad - the degree to which it was sabotaged, and to think it could still have been a world-beater today - it’s just frustratingly tragic
20 years ago in car mechanic school I watched that Citroen ad about their suspension. Such a fascinating thing, still one of my favorite looking cars today.
got sent here by lazerpig and damn this is great
Same
the coffin nails in the background got you my subscription, MF DOOM baby.
What a surprise this video was! funny, factual, entertaining, and even though I'm bigheaded enough to consider myself a 'car guy' educational..I learnt stuff I never knew, for instance the Avis bit... and I'm old enough to have been there at the time! Thank you brilliant!
This is absolute gold, Im in stitches laughing. Thankyou the TH-cam algorithm for recommending it!
Came here from Lazerpig's showcase of small creators, and I'm incredibly impressed! Brilliant channel and I can't wait to see it grow in coming years!
Part of me always wondered what would've happened had Leyland been able to avoid the BMC merger entirely and instead acquired a company outside of the UK. Be it a company like Chrysler in the US and offering technical assistance to Detroit to refine the American auto maker's product on a technical level while getting a wider parts catalogue variety and greater access to the North American market or if they acquired a company on the continent to get a greater foothold into Europe be it Saab, DAF, or even NSU before it was force merged into Audi. Maybe the bringing in of outside eyes could've aided in improving critical flaws in the design of the P8 that ended up getting the project to become stillborn before it went to market. Sadly we will never know. Shame really. Great video, Mr. Binman.
Your channel is badass! How am I only now discovering this!? Subscribed
"In 1892, Brandon Thomas wrote a famous long-running English farce, what was it?"
"British Leyland."
The Two Ronnies Mastermind sketch was my first introduction to British Leyland.
Came here from lazer pig
Same bestie
Omg same
Me too bro
honestly fab work mate, loved the video even through to the end. if you can keep up a semi-regular upload schedule I can definitely see this channel going places.
LazerPig sent me.
14:53: that's basically a BMW M62B44 or a Toyota 3UZ-FE, but about 30 years ahead of their time.
a racing green 216 Cab with the Honda engine was my first car. I LOVED that car, it was fantastic. Rover serves as a f@cking metaphor for this country, stood on the shoulder of giants and pissed it away.....
I'm so glad i came across your channel. Your videos are fucking amazing! i watched your first one and was immediately hooked!
I feel exactly the same about "what would otherwise be deranged rambling to my friends" and I just enjoy every second of your videos because I can keep up with all the different directions your brain is going because there's so much information and its hard to get a good picture without knowing the basics, and that is where it all starts. The rabbit hole of the car world and even down to the success or demise of individual car companies. Besides all that, I am going to watch the rest of your videos and will be greatly looking forward to your use of creativity and portrayal with such great humor. Keep doing what you're doing. Thank you
Lazerpig sent me, but the mum jokes got me subscribed.
The humour is amazing!
No idea how this video just has 20 k views...hope the algorithm shows it to more people, it's would be very deserved!
I'm a early 2000's kid, very young I know. But I've been around a Rover(s) my whole life, naturally they've grown on me to now where they're a brand I hold very close to my heart. So much that my first car I bought is a Rover 220. I really enjoyed this video and I just wished more people knew what kind of a company Rover truly was.
In the early 80's in Austria, my dad got a SDI V8 VandenPlas as his company car. I, the half English kid, thought it was better than the 520i BMW he had before, with it's leather and wood, 4 door Daytona styling I loved it.
My Austrian engineer dad, definitely didn't think that.
Although a series 2 it was plagued with warranty issues.
PS: the pig sent me, I've been subdcribed to Classic& Sports Car for over 20 years. You've managed to educate me on certain details that I haven't ever read there.
Binging your content now.
"as subtle as a pipebomb." Gotta be my newest favorate quote
Loved the video, especially the BL dramatization lmaoooo. Also, anyone could argue that Jaguar is going through a similar path as Rover did in their BL days. Not financially healthy, shoddy build quality, aging design (compared to the Japanese and German luxury brands), and while they are sporty vehicles, most of the time it’s someone in their 50s or 60s who are behind the wheel (or at least that’s what I see where I live) just like Rover.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Imo when ford and subsequently tata bought jaguar they tried to fit jaguar into a BMW shaped hole, and while the xe and xf were damn good cars when they came out they just didn't have the jaaaaag factor.
I concur
@@IntergalacticBinman Tata, I agree with that. But back when Ford bought Jaguar, they kept to the mission of trying to preserve the JAAAAG factor as much as possible. I read interviews and testimonies back then that Ford were appalled that Jaguar was still using the outdated and inefficient 50s era tooling to make their cars. And of the nearly 30 million pounds Ford put into Jaguar in development on newer models, including the XJ300, more than half of that went into bringing the production facilities into the (then) modern age. You can see that in the XJ300 itself, it still looked like a Jaguar, still kept the character of the old XJ's still kept the straight-sixes and V12s (however brief), but made sure that it had a proper electrical system, made sure the components worked flawlessly, and didn't have a mess of hoses under the hood that resembled the aftermath of a bad experience at an Italian restaurant. Even today, the XJ300 is still very much a great blend of 90s advancements in quality while still keeping the older JAAAAG Factor, and I bet you anything they will become future classics. (It doesn't hurt they've actually got a far better reputation for reliability than the Jaguar stereotype would suggest)
But then Ford built the goddamn "Premiere Auto Group" in the late 90s-Early 2000s. And it all went downhill from there.
@@PredatorPlays4576 Ford were definitely high on their own ego around that time (well they are generally but especially then), one of the main reasons reason they bought Jag in the first place was because GM was about to and they didn't want to let GM get Jaguar, so they kicked down the door and offered double.
And yeh, the PAG was a terrible idea from conception. Whoever's idea it was to lump Jag, Volvo, Aston and Lincoln together should have their head examined.
To me, the last Jaaaaag was the X351 XJ. Sure, it doesn't have the classic looks, but it was the last that truely combined grace, space and pace.
@@IntergalacticBinman IIRC Ford agreed the guy needed his head examined and fired him after he sold off the heavy truck division (RIP).
I'll be honest and say that the prototype coupe of the Leyland P76 is one of the coolest looking cars ever IMO. Granted, as an American, I am contractually obligated to love any vehicle remotely shaped like a muscle car/has a V8.
"For 10s of models the Rover was the guardian of innovation and quality in British motoring... Before the dark times... Before British Leyland".
I am the happy owner of such an old farth 75 , 22 years and in tiptop condition .
Have no plans trading it for a modern " playmobile " .
Greetings from a Dutch Rovernut .
Man I'm so fucking glad I found this channel. I really enjoy your stuff. Keep on making it please.
The goddamn "Skill issue" on the P6 losing control actually got me, ffs
I heard about this video from LazerPig.
I’m very glad LazerPig sent me here. Now I know why they are the brand that shall not be named
Company whom shall not be named
the worlds greatest villain
I had a fully written snarky funny comment about Rover, BL, and that brilliant little aluminum Buick V8. I just couldn’t.
I mourn the passing of the British motor car industry. So much brilliance just cast aside like so much stale bread.
Amazing quality video! You definitely deserve more subscribers dude!
8:33 the tiny little effort to make your viewer smile here is much appreciated 😂😂😂
Nice use of Traffic in the background, solid history and humor. Sub added. Thank you.
Big Car with swearing. 466 subscribers as I write this. Glad I caught this channel at the beginning. Subbed.
Love your automotive content, always wondered what happened to rover.....then I remembered that company which shall not be named
I think I mentioned it in your Mazda video but one of these types of video essays on Japans first automotive company, Isuzu the fallen giant of small cars would just tickle my inner car nerd.
I've looked into it and there's definitely stuff I can talk about, there's just a few other topics I'd like to make vids on first, but all things being well I'll get round to it
This and your Mazda video have made me laugh so hard, Two of the best videos I have seen on TH-cam for ages
Ah. It made my day to see the James. Possibly the best Rover model ever.
I appreciate your scrupulous dedication to thus video
Actually spectacular!! I know fuck all about any of this yet you make it so entertaining to listen to! So excited for the next one!
I know a former Rover and later Chrysler design engineer (if you admire the folding rear seat in the Alpine and Horizon that folded flat in one motion, well he did that). He said of the P8 that it was a bit of a mess, Rover did not know how to do unitary construction in house having relied on Press Steel Fisher before (which you can see with the SD1 panel gaps) apparently it looked like a patch work quilt in bate metal it consisted of so many pressings and describes the overall car as incoherent as a result of being designed by a committee. I think this was what Spen King eludes to.
My friend had a Rover. His dad fixed them and was the only person in my state who "knew" how to fix them. They had three (running! way more in parts) of them on their farm. First car I ever took to 100mph.
Quite simply the best documentary on the history of Rover I have seen…and oddly enough, I have seen really quite a lot of them.
The fact you played Green Onions in the background gained my respect, mate. Great taste, great vid.
Your choice of references and jokes in the visuals feels custom tailored to my cultural diet. its not like the stuff I consume is super obscure, you just hit the perfect mix.
Whenever I hear of mergers like those you described I wonder... How the fluff does the board of the failing company get as much of a say as the one doing well? Especially over the brands that're actually doing quite well for themselves. Clearly they shouldn't be the ones making the decisions if they are the ones in charge of a financial black hole...
It's a game of politics, really. Leyland didn't know the extent to which BMC were in the shitter and BMC weren't gonna let that on because they wanted to still have a say in the new company. On top of that you have corporate culture, managers don't want their bosses to just change entirely without their say, etc. etc.
It would be great if it were that simple but unfortunately for reasons completely unbeknownst to us mortals large corporations don't behave with perfect logic all the time and actually we do know it's because they're led by self-serving power hungry psychos.
@@IntergalacticBinman "...it's because they're led by self-serving power hungry psychos."
The most succinct answer possible why all corporations are the way they are. It's just a little more obvious in the aftermath of a corporate collapse.
legitimately got sad when i saw the last p8 prototype abandoned like that such a beautiful car completely abandoned and not even preserved for historical reasons :
7:54 this is my local cars and coffee and have seen this citroen many times, the owner loves and is very passionate about the car
I do enjoy this energy radiating off this narrator.
LazerPig and the Anthem of the Sun cover were all I needed.
I went into this not knowing anything about BL or rover aside from the P76 being a pile (we got them here in nz, my grandad had one in the 70s iirc) but did not expect to get so enthralled by rovers plans for world domination. I’m gutted the P8 never made it to production, such a cool sounding car! Nice vid.
I'm here because of the pig!!!!
Lazorpig brought me here, not disappointed
Part of Rover and also MG was acquired by SAIC and eventually became known as Roewe in China and became pretty successful, SAIC even exported them back to the UK.
Stopped watching halfway through due to labour strikes. Video unfinished pending board inquiry.
In all seriousness. Fantastic.
Bro is not only funny but also watches D4A, absolute based
I believe the bizarre angelic figure in that whacky Citroen DS commercial is an artifact of the fact that in French, "DS" was a play on the word for "Goddess", and Citroen actually used that in its official marketing... its really, really unsettling marketing.
I get chills every time you talk about British Leyland and I'm not even british
dude your videos are really good.
The algos led me to this channel and I gotta say, I'm not even sure if I care for the subject of cars as much as I appreciate the presentation. With this style of script and editing you can made pretty much anything wildly entertaining.
Several years ago I found a technical article on the net describing that hydraulic suspension and how it worked. It really was a technical tour-de-force, with the downside that the hydraulic pump consumed a lot of power. When I looked for the page again, I could not find it. This video is the first reference I have found to it since then.
There's a whole lot of material here that I did not know of before, such as the 16 valve version of the four, and a scheme to make a 32 valve V-8 derived from it. Rover really were aiming high
I got most of my research from articles on AROnline, the articles go into some description as to how especially the hydraulic anti-roll system worked, it's fascinating stuff
my new favorite channel. pure gold script
So Glad I found this channel! You are one of the veeeery rare channels, who do something many other channels do but the vids still hit different. I can't really put my finger on why tho :)
as an american, i just wanna say: outside of the land rover and range rover, we never really got rover. but we did get all the other great british cars from jaguar, triumph and austin. british cars have a great reputation in america for quirky yet powerful cars dating back to the second world war, and i'm really surprised rover never really took advantage of that.
also british leyland's cost cutting killed chris bell from the band big star. his triumph tr7 malfunctioned and it crashed.
My recent comment was getting rather lengthy; I wanted to add a few extras which I was surprised you didn’t mention in your excellent video. Spec King collared the idea for the jet turbine engine when Sir Frank whittles company, Power Jets, just before WW2 - if they had concentrated more of their attention to manufacturing aviation engines, and convince the government, that the RAF should have had an efficient working engine with which to power their aircraft, the Battle of Britain wouldn’t have been anywhere near as serious a threat.😊
I also read that the air ministry were resistant to support the idea of the jet early on as well, thinking it would be impractical. Typical British establishment being resistant to change, I suppose
@@IntergalacticBinman I mean I agree in peacetime, but considering Britain was in an existential war at the time, you don't exactly want to waste resources on something that may be spectacular, but might also be a high cost, total failure. You want something that's proven to work. And considering how the German government spaffed huge amounts of resources on useless, impractical 'wonder weapons' and ultimately lost the war.
The lesson that I took from this video is that this is all Jaguars fault, not just BL.
I'll be honest, this video only really covers how BL was a terrible idea in conception, using the kneecapping of Rover as an example, as Rover was the main focus of the video. There's hours of content on TH-cam from plenty of other very talented creators that go in detail about how in execution it was somehow even worse, especially in the mid to late 70s.
You’re channel is EXACTLY what I need
Achievement unlocked: Referenced by a pig. Also nice vid.
One of my friends dad bought a Rover when we were in high school, in the 90’s. He got the car when his dad changes cars 5 years later. It had a slab of wood underneath the passenger seat, because it was rusting so badly there was a hole in the floor.
I like your musical references. Just my kind of music and giving (me) a good sense of the Zeitgeist of that year.
I don’t know shit about British cars/the British car industry, but I love that you introduced British Leyland as an SCP, a demonic beast