More than anything, this is a prime example of how awful NBA media coverage is. The media coverage of the NFL actually is solid, meanwhile we as NBA fans get stuck with high school level dramatics and flip-flopping.
the nfl actually bring people that knows something about their sport obviously the nba just brings anybody in nba coverage itself has seattle like what tom brady say "mediocrity" to the point we watch youtubers for neutral takes and have better overall opinions.
The nba is hella cringe now and i say this as someone who used to love the nba. The league is such a soap opera now with how bad the media and players mentalities are
I think you hit the nail on the head. They want people to use ESPN BET and put money on Tatum because he is definitely going to lose the MVP race and thus those bets all go to ESPN wallet.
@user-wi7eg9sp1k yea it’s crazy how obvious it is. Luka, Jokic, Giannis, and Shai are all right there, but they want to talk about Tatum cuz he’s American. And Shai from Canada, that’s barely even foreign 😂
@@FatsAldridgeMe personally, I would like the MVP to go to the player with the best case for it, and wherever that player is from, so be it. As for Tatum, he may not be an MVP, but I could see an All-NBA selection?
@@fortynights1513he will probably make 1st team all NBA but if Embiid didn’t get injured he would be 2nd team. Idk if I would put him 1st team even with Embiid out but you know that’s what they’ll probably do. Jokic, Shai, Giannis, Luka all pretty much guaranteed to be in.
Unfortunately, you are right. Gil's Arena is the same way. My mother (who's around the same age) is the same way too. Pretty ridiculous that they are openly showing Xenophobia. It's like they forgot where they came from and how they were treated in the past...🤦🏾♀
it's not all black analysts AT ALL.. but i am 100% convinced that SMith's and perkins votes are racially biased... and yes, racist too... and i don't even mind that as much as the fact that they would deny it... stand by your horse shit
There's a reason why they have a vote, and you don't. I mean seriously you think you know more then ex players. You should pull your head out your butt and come up for air. Tatum has beat them all. He either has a winning record against the elites or he about to take the tiebreaker, and wins are the most important stat.
I agree with you LOW and I have for years, Giannis and Jokic are probably the most disrespected superstars in NBA history, damn sure recent history. This dude said Tatum should win MVP "because HE'S THAT DUDE", like wtf are we talking about here, aura? Fact is there are legit 3 guys ahead of Tatum for MVP and that's Jokic, SGA, and Giannis period.
@@robbiecleighmarks3088 I think the NBA should just come out make a rule that you have to be a 6 seed or higher for MVP consideration (not play-in or lower) just to end the debate.
SAS is a clown. Tatum’s ONLY case is his team’s record, and when the roster is so stacked that Jrue Holiday is a 5th option, that “winning” narrative doesn’t even carry any weight 😂😂
No. His stats are good enough, he’s the best player on the best team. Winning a title wasn’t a criteria for Giannis and Joker before they won and certainly not Embiid, because Boston owns them. Best player on best team > great player that isn’t winning jack squat should count more.
Idk how people don’t understand the basic idea that having better players on your team diminishes an individual’s value to a team. KD was never as valuable to the Warriors as he was to the Thunder. Even if someone’s stats or skills increase on a more stacked team, their value in relation to the team will necessarily diminish. IMO jokic or SGA should win the MVP. Guys like Tatum or kawhi play with too many stars to call them “the most valuable player”
People try to whine about advanced stats, but almost every single MVP winner in league history is top 5-10 in Win Shares, Win Shares/48, BPM and VORP. The rare exceptions are guys who we usually think *didn't* deserve it like Steve Nash. Tatum is not top 10 in any of those stats, so I think it's pretty simple why he doesn't have a case.
I don’t want to make an official statement, but I find it convenient that SAS and Perk said that Tatum, American, is the new MVP favorite, while the four players that are above him in the race are all foreign players. 🧐
They’re old heads trying to deny the fact that an American guy is not the best player behind the classic “best player on the best team” argument. That argument is only valid in a tight mvp race. Not in a year where you have guys putting up historic numbers
@@jacobmcklowski4428my guess is that he probably had a plan for this channel and how the content would differ but got too lazy/gave up on the idea but cannot delete/abandon this the channel for obvious reasons
You dont even need to watch NBA. Luka has averaged 28.5 points, 8.6 rebounds and 8.2 assists per game in his career and Tatum has 23.0 points, 7.2 rebounds and 3.5 assists in his career. Diferents in huge.
LUKA is truly the MVP. Kept his team afloat while his starters missed 70 games. Triple more than the next MVP candidate and are within 1 game of the 5th seed and 5 games from the 2nd seed. Mavs might get a top 4 seed by the end of the season.
BS that is total CAPPING ….WTF have you been???? Taking all those Terrible Shots, turnovers and No Damn Defense period. Hell if it wasn’t for Kai Dallas would be out of the damn Playoffs picture period. Thanks to Kai and the other Dallas Team Players they will make the Playoffs period. Stop 🛑 giving Luka credit he doesn’t deserve at ALL. Kai got his Azzz looking to pass now before just comings down the court dribbling the hell out of the ball and forcing a DA Shot. Nobody truly wants to PLAY with Luka!!!!
@@TheGarciaKidd WTF are you???? I speak on what I want to speak on period. I said what I said and I damn mean it….now what….you can’t handle the TRUTH????
they need to strip Perkins and Smith of their voting privileges and give them to you. because you are actually very knowledgeable, non-prejudice, and a very logical analyst. We all know Luka will be the real MVP but we know how SAS and Fat Perk feel about them white folk and I'm asian.
Tatum is most definitely a top 5 player in the league. His resume speaks for itself. I’d agree with LOW if shai wasn’t in the conversation but here we are and shai is top 3 in votes. Tatum should’ve been in the race more last year but this year he should be in the conversation. It seems that these knocks only affect JT all the other candidates have all stars and all nba caliber players on their roster but Tatum is the only one that’s getting a knock for it. Make it make sense.
Jokic and Shai don’t even have all star or all nba teammates on the team with them and Luka was the only player on his own team that made the all star team this season
@@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m literally every other vote getter has an all star or all nba caliber player. All the previous mvps have the same. Embiid won last year with harden on his team who was leading the league in assists. Tatum has JB and he’s disqualified aite
I don't get why the NBA is allowing sports media personnel to vote on the NBA MVP when they could include players and coach or other league personnel so the opinion isn't so one sided by personality. The voter fatigue as well plays a roll in why people don't want to give Giannis or Jokic MVP.
Perkins last season “you need to take post season success into account that’s why I’m voting for Embiid over jokic” meanwhile Joker every year RAISES his game in the playoffs and Embiid seems to always CHOKE in the playoffs. This season- “ it’s a regular season award that’s why I’m voting for Taintyum” TAKE THIS MANS VOTE AWAY
😭😭😭😭He’s called JOKER for a reason. He should be playing RUGBY with that body and lack of coordination. 2 time MVP…F…ing laughing. Tell him to get in shape and look like a baller instead of blimp.
@@TomSkinner-cn7mg lol how small minded you must be to judge someone solely based on their appearance and not their character, merit, talent, heart. Gtfo clown.
@@TomSkinner-cn7mg you do realize joker played more minutes then anyone else in the playoffs last year? You do realize that every single season he plays in damn near every game? While whooping all your favorite players who “look like ballers” asses without breaking a sweat. Joker is one of the best conditioned athletes on the planet.
it’s actually sad to see them try so hard to push an mvp candidate no one should consider. like i get it, boston has the best record. but tatum as a player is simply one step below embiid, jokic, and i’d throw luka in there too.
As a Celtics fan, Tatum is my guy, but I think he needs to do a little bit more stats wise to win an MVP. Although I look at these other guys, averaging all these crazy numbers, but it doesn’t translate to winning. Their team isn’t as good so of course they have a higher usage rate.
Well it all comes to most valuable player. He’s not that valuable when you have the best team around you. You could argue the big difference in this year Celtics is Derrick white moving to better roll on the team and of course porzingis. You see, Boston has so much offensive arsenal that there’s no defense that can keep op with that. They are the best team and the deepest roster in the NBA. That’s it.
@@DrcakesgamingTatum is just as valuable as any other player , if you wanna argue he doesn’t have to put up bigger stats because of his team compared to others , 100% but u can watch games and he makes the Celtics 100 times better , good teammates have never been a knock , like lebron in Miami , so why for Tatum?
@@ke3p1tco0l2finishing at a distant 4th place isn’t “being in the conversation”. If he doesn’t have a real chance of winning it, he wasn’t in the conversation. The only dudes in the conversation that year was Jokic, Giannis and Joel
@@gabrielnieves9974 When people say, "in the conversation", they're not only talking about the top-3 finishers. Tatum was literally a leading vote getter in early season polling, and later dropped to 4th as Embiid and Giannis went godmode to end the season. But finishing at 4th doesn't mean he wasn't in the talks for MVP throughout the season.
Hot take: When the Talent pool is too much in the league, I can understand narratives playing a role in qualifying/disqualifying certain players. I don't think Tatum will win MVP, but if he wins a Title, the winning may sway some voters.
Ok I can't agree with you on this one. Tatum is completely deserving of an MVP, and fleeing the best player on the best team should matter. Also you can't say "Tatum can't be MVP because he is expected to do good, his team is expected to win" that's bs. 27, 8, Ballin on both sides and having the absolute best record, should matter.
It gets what you're trying to say and all, but isn't that the way/reason why Steph Curry won his first MVP? Best player on the best team has always been a go to argument for MVP when there is no clear cut person having an all time year or something of that sort.
Bro LOW needs to be invited to debate these analysts. His pokes on their plot holes makes me so fucking angry that the analysts think their opinions are what really matters. When Stephen A. yelled out "GIANNIS?!" I fucking lost it my goodness
It's obvious why. They don't want it to go to another international player. Joel Embiid did what they wanted and sood out to play with USA so they were happy to gove him another. The next 4 candidates were all international. Jokic, Giannis, Luka and Shai. So they need it to go to an American, so now it's time to cook the books because if an American don't get one of the next 3.mvps, with Wemby looking the way he's looking, they might not get one for a decade plus.
If Mitchell and Booker didnt deserve MVP, then Tatum and SGA dont deserve it. Its always been Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Luka (maybe Steph and KD for a year or two), for the last 5 years. To vote anyone else is just blasphemy. SGA being over Giannis and Luka in the race is even worse than whatever spot Tatum is in.
They built the "no post-season success" argument to discredit Joker, because they believed he'll never win anything, and now they have to backtrack lol
I kind of empathize with Tatum on this one. Like he obviously cares about the award, so when someone like Windhorst mentions that the 22 finals could be affecting his perception around the league I see why he’d run with it. Not to even say Windhorst is wrong. A lot of Tatum’s perception right now does come back to how weirdly terrible he was in that finals. And a lot of voters probably do hold that against him. The biggest problem for me is that the voting is made up of people like Stephen A and Perkins, but also Zach Lowe types. And there’s not really a consistent method for what being an mvp means
Except jovik and embeid just won MVPs before they won a championship? Tatum sends embeid home in the playoffs every year. Tatum scored 46 in an elimination game at Philly and scored 50+ on an elimination game in Milwaukee. Tatum gets penalized for being on a good team I believe but Tatum has been in the eastern conference finals like 5 of 6 years since he entered the league and people forget his only 25/26. He was 23 in that finals. How did lebron do.in his first finals?
This is what I call the KD effect First take/media over exaggerate a players abilities Then online discourse over critiques or over expects from an athlete
Jayson Tatum is the most consistent star in the league and this narrative is getting way out of hand. Yall like seeing players play hero ball and want to see a guy either lift his sword or fall on it, he could lead the league in scoring, it's just not the best way to win games, 5 conference championship appearances in 6 years as the best player on your team since age 20 but he isn't good enough... Its really these guys bro like y'all point to stats like he's way behind, he isn't. I'm just glad it doesn't seem to carry much weight with JT because y'all just pick a narrative and run with it without even taking any opposing arguments into account
What opposing argument? Claiming that a guy who contributes less to wins over the course of a season than all the other MVP contenders, while his team has more wins, takes some serious mental gymnastics to achieve. His team is stacked. The worst starter is Jrue Holliday. That guy was the 2nd/3rd option on a team that actually won the chip.
They’re so cap, saying the best player on the best team, half the mvp winners in history weren’t on the best team, they change their requirement based on who they like in that very moment
???most mvp winners don’t have a winning season what are you talkin about??😂 russ is literally one of the only players that got mvp and his team was the 8th seed… jokic 1st seed last year, Philly was the 3rd seed when embiid won, warriors went 73-9 when steph won😂lebron on the heat(obviously they were 1st seed at the least 2nd). D rose(66-16 bulls)Literally the last like 15 mvps those players were on 1st-3rd seed teams except russ💀you ain’t been watching basketball bruh lmao.
“Tatum wasn’t in the conversation before he lost in the finals” So, because he wasn’t in the conversation as a 23 year old that means he shouldn’t at 25? What are you even saying lol
Strawman. That statement, in context, was a rebuttal to the statement claiming he was only not in the debate because of the finals loss. He didn't just assert that from nowhere.
Low SAS did pull for Booker in 21-22 I remember him beating that drum... Booker didnt have to sacrifice his scoring like Tatum did this season... Tatum averaged 30 pts last year and sacrificed his scoring for the betterment of the team... Booker didn't have to do that, he was the scorer on that team
I DisAgree with Low on the Fact he said Tatum ain’t Good Enough, Cause Tatum is Top 10 in the League & has Been for 4 Years Now!…Nash, WestBrick & Rose Won in the same Exact Situation!… When Nash Won; Kobe, LeBrick, Garnet, Nowitzki, Duncan & Melo were ALL Better!…When Rose Won it; Kobe, LeBrick, Melo, Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade & Durant were ALL Better!…When WestBrick Won it; LeBrick, Harden, Durant, Curry & Kawhi were Better!…I Think SGA or Tatum Should Win it!…
My only problem with it is that MVP should never go to just “best record on best team.” It’s about VALUE. Derrick Rose, LeBron, Russ, Giannis (just to name a few), have all won their MVPs off being the true most valuable player on their team and in the entire league at one point or another.
As a Dallas Mavericks fan I'm just conditioned to accept that Luka Doncic will not win the MVP and this season he really should have more looks this year
Im glad you mentioned this. It’ll be a lot to type rn but if you look at what they’ve been talking about on First Take, they’ve been talking about who’s gonna be the face of the NBA after Lebron retires but all the primary candidates are foreign players including Shai (which I didn’t know til recently) which makes him completely overlooking Shai for Tatum make sense now and they’re trying their best to make that person an American born player cuz it would look better for the league which is JT but he needs some accolades first. I think they’re tryina narratively push him to be MVP to say “look at our new future face of the league” ESPECIALLY if Boston wins the chip and he gets Finals MVP too. Bron don’t got much time left in the league
The way he’s just pushing JT over EVERYONE ahead of him out the blue is insane and I don’t think it’s a coincidence it came right after the episode where they spoke about the dominance of foreign players and who would take over the league after Lebron leaves
the "take X player of this team" logic is so dumb, most of the time they talk about Stef, but you could say that about literally every other dude and you get the same result. Oh, if you take the best player of a team, the team would be lower in the standings, no shit genius.
Low comparing tatum stats to jokic, luka and shai is hillarious because i bet he won't bring up Tatum's defense being by far the best out of those above him outside of giannis and the argument of "of course they're the best bc they built a superteam" is stupid because didn't Lebron win mvps in miami when they were easily considered if not the best, but one of the best teams in the league? What about MJ? I agree he doesn't deserve MVP but to use these as arguments is lazy imo
@@gabrielnieves9974 yeah bro i’m fs taking shai over tatum defensively 🤓 and he not making it bro ur wilding. jrue, d white n caruso pretty much have the guard positions locked up
Tatum is really hoopin this year lol. Like he has gotten better. Best player on the best team. He has a case. I always thought this. He is definitely good enough
Mvp voting is always inconsistent and its always been narrative base. If mvp is about efficiency and stats then it will become a big man award only. Jokic giannis and embiid will always be more efficient jus due to position. For Tatum to win he gon need that steve nash D Rose type narrative
Looking at the comments, it's clear alot of people don't know the history of the NBA. Historically, it's an award that goes to the best player on a team that finishes top 3 in their conference. There have only been a handful of exceptions. I got 1.SGA 2.Tatum 3.Jokic 4. Giannis🤷🏾♂️
It’s simple he’s has not had the best seasons. He has a great team but he has the best roster in the entire league probably so he’s doesn’t have to do as much as other players. Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, and Luka are consistently better than him. I’d still probably take Steph, KD, and Lebron over him at the moment. He has a lot inconsistency in the playoffs and has been outplayed by Jimmy Butler in several playoffs series despite having better supporting cast. Jayson Tatum is very talented player but there has never been a season where you could call him the best player in the league or had the best season for him to be a top MVP candidate.
27.1/8.6/4.8 for Tatum, shai 31.1/5.5/6.5, it's not like it's a huge difference there... If u had up it's 27.1/13.5 vs 31.1/12... But shai has the defense so it's not even close... Plus the efficiency .. Jokic is unbeatable statistically... What I don't understand is how having brown who is better than anyone the others have, is a case for Tatum as MVP 😂😂😂 SAS is wilding lol
I mean Tatum has defense too, but his individual impact hasn't been as much as Shai for his team. But fr like Tatum's playing with Jaylen, Jrue, Derrick White, Porzingis.....meanwhile Shai out there with Jalen Williams, Josh Giddey, Lu Dort, and Chet 😂 The talent and skill gap ain't even remotely close
@@Mptappin12 you just answered it lol And I never said it hurts or should hurt, I Said how does it make his case better.... How does having the only All star out of the 3 makes his case for MVP better than the others? Lol it's plain stupid
@@BT405 shai is probably gonna be an All defensive player this year Tatum is not even the better defensive player on his team... Playing with 2 All defensive players...
Jokic is VERY beatable STATISTICALLY, but the one player who can beat him has 0 influential advocates in NBA media or even the NBA Twitter/podsphere. Easiest argument to make is Giannis is an offensive statistical match and defensively superior. Last year he even had the best record in the entire league and still didn't even finish 2nd let alone win it.
"they're going to do the same thing to embiid" bro just got a pity trophy last year when jokic had his best year ever just because they didn't want him to win it 3 times
I love this video man. I appreciate the honest and unbias. It’s actually sad what the nba media is becoming. They media needs there votes stripped all together because of certain guys that want to abuse the integrity of the game.
jayson tatum needs to become a villain. he needs the league to turn on him and needs to embrace it. he needs to really lose, not just come up short. he came into a smooth sailing team (apart from kyrie) and it’s been solid ever since. in his mind he’s probably always gonna be a 1st to 3rd seed so I think he’s complacent and the franchise reflects that. he needs that hunger. something needs to light a fire under him that’ll translate to the rest of the team like his college days. he wants to be like kobe and takes everything from kobe, now he’s gotta learn the way kobe did.
Longevity has nothing to do with MVP Candidates or previous success/failure. Technically the MVP should go to a player that is elevating his team, but the voters going to vote for popular players.
Awful takes about Tatum but I’m not shocked. Going to the playoffs every since his rookie year no matter who was on the team hurts u I guess. Either Records matter or they don’t . Different excuses every year.
Just bc he doesn’t chuck up 236 shots a night and sometimes get fifty doesn’t mean he isn’t THE most valuable player His defence, rebounding, consistency, mentality and team winning is clear by miles than Luka Id say he’s a better scorer (for his shots) than Luka too He is literally close to him on one half and miles clear on the other half Just shooting up points and being good doesn’t make you valuable to your team Doing everything amazingly makes you valuable that’s why he is valuable
if you take tatum off the celtics, all you got left is jaylen brown, part time porzingis, derick white and 2 guys thats retiring in a couple years You trusting that?
it's pretty simple The moment embiid got injured, Jokic became favorite to win MVP with SGA and Luka behind him. Once that happened they started this Tatum push because they don't want joker to get mvp number 3. Celtics been best team all season and no one ever mentioned Tatum then all of a sudden he leapfrogs everyone? add mitchell and brunson to that list
More than anything, this is a prime example of how awful NBA media coverage is. The media coverage of the NFL actually is solid, meanwhile we as NBA fans get stuck with high school level dramatics and flip-flopping.
the nfl actually bring people that knows something about their sport obviously the nba just brings anybody in
nba coverage itself has seattle like what tom brady say "mediocrity" to the point we watch youtubers for neutral takes and have better overall opinions.
@@unphantom173what’s Seattle got to do with it
Nah, to be fair, there are a lot of wishy-washy contradictions on the NFL side as well.
the NBA is to blame for that as well. regressed so much i'd say since the pandemic (probably before that as well). don't even care to watch it anymore
The nba is hella cringe now and i say this as someone who used to love the nba. The league is such a soap opera now with how bad the media and players mentalities are
Stephen A really said "He's that dude" as an argument and Perk shook his head in agreement like he was spittin
I mean it could not be worse than "Because he scored 70!" imo
😂😂😂
😂😂😂
Crazy How Shannon makes the most sense out of all of them lmao
Shannon remembers what happened to Lebron AD and the Lakers last year
I do gotta say Tatum’s response was pretty level headed. Don’t let SAS get JT in trouble
Agreed. His response was actually great. It's important not to take the nonsense takes out on the player.
I think you hit the nail on the head. They want people to use ESPN BET and put money on Tatum because he is definitely going to lose the MVP race and thus those bets all go to ESPN wallet.
They do this every season. It’s obvious candidates at the top, but they decide to sit there yelling about the 3rd or 4th guy for NO reason
They probably have a vested interest in the race for MVP being closer than it really is.
@user-wi7eg9sp1k yea it’s crazy how obvious it is. Luka, Jokic, Giannis, and Shai are all right there, but they want to talk about Tatum cuz he’s American. And Shai from Canada, that’s barely even foreign 😂
@user-wi7eg9sp1kCould Tatum be 6-10?
@@FatsAldridgeMe personally, I would like the MVP to go to the player with the best case for it, and wherever that player is from, so be it.
As for Tatum, he may not be an MVP, but I could see an All-NBA selection?
@@fortynights1513he will probably make 1st team all NBA but if Embiid didn’t get injured he would be 2nd team. Idk if I would put him 1st team even with Embiid out but you know that’s what they’ll probably do. Jokic, Shai, Giannis, Luka all pretty much guaranteed to be in.
These people just HATE Europeans don't they? Stephen A could've said Tatum had the most aura and that would've been enough to convince Perk.
They hate WHITE people. They consider it a "black" league. Get that hate out your hearts.
Unfortunately, you are right. Gil's Arena is the same way. My mother (who's around the same age) is the same way too. Pretty ridiculous that they are openly showing Xenophobia. It's like they forgot where they came from and how they were treated in the past...🤦🏾♀
it's not all black analysts AT ALL.. but i am 100% convinced that SMith's and perkins votes are racially biased... and yes, racist too...
and i don't even mind that as much as the fact that they would deny it... stand by your horse shit
Da fuck you on about? The last 3 mvps were not born in the USA. Youare listening to are a very small vocal minority.
There's a reason why they have a vote, and you don't. I mean seriously you think you know more then ex players.
You should pull your head out your butt and come up for air.
Tatum has beat them all. He either has a winning record against the elites or he about to take the tiebreaker, and wins are the most important stat.
The fact that he is bigger favorite than Kawhi or Brunson is laughable
He has a better record and stats than Kawhi and Brunson
@s2l4t9 stop it. Tatum was the reason Celtics lost to Minnesota and Nuggets. Those teams are their actual competition.not somebody in the East.
@@nikolayjerev9285 he Drop 45 on Minnesota in OT the second time they played and won, the Clippers have yet to beat either fytb
how
@@nikolayjerev9285 lol u dont watch celtics games pipe down lil guy
I agree with you LOW and I have for years, Giannis and Jokic are probably the most disrespected superstars in NBA history, damn sure recent history. This dude said Tatum should win MVP "because HE'S THAT DUDE", like wtf are we talking about here, aura? Fact is there are legit 3 guys ahead of Tatum for MVP and that's Jokic, SGA, and Giannis period.
Luka is higher than Tatum too
@@joshahlstrom2764luka is in 8th seed so no lol
@@TheJwalk1234 then the conversation is only between Jokic, Giannis, and Shai.
Uhh Luka is by far the most disrespected
@@robbiecleighmarks3088 I think the NBA should just come out make a rule that you have to be a 6 seed or higher for MVP consideration (not play-in or lower) just to end the debate.
SAS is a clown. Tatum’s ONLY case is his team’s record, and when the roster is so stacked that Jrue Holiday is a 5th option, that “winning” narrative doesn’t even carry any weight 😂😂
No one said that when he was playing with Giannis...
No. His stats are good enough, he’s the best player on the best team.
Winning a title wasn’t a criteria for Giannis and Joker before they won and certainly not Embiid, because Boston owns them.
Best player on best team > great player that isn’t winning jack squat should count more.
Yes low they are voters bruh! They have influence
Idk how people don’t understand the basic idea that having better players on your team diminishes an individual’s value to a team.
KD was never as valuable to the Warriors as he was to the Thunder.
Even if someone’s stats or skills increase on a more stacked team, their value in relation to the team will necessarily diminish.
IMO jokic or SGA should win the MVP. Guys like Tatum or kawhi play with too many stars to call them “the most valuable player”
@@juliothom2408 Everyone on the mvp list is a More Valuable Player than Tatum.
People try to whine about advanced stats, but almost every single MVP winner in league history is top 5-10 in Win Shares, Win Shares/48, BPM and VORP. The rare exceptions are guys who we usually think *didn't* deserve it like Steve Nash. Tatum is not top 10 in any of those stats, so I think it's pretty simple why he doesn't have a case.
You are correct, since 2012 the leader of advanced stats wins MVP
@@lenzoltan No it's not just since 2012, you can keep going back and the trend holds. I went as far back as 2000 but even before then it holds
@@shepardice3775Not that he’s necessarily better, but I recall seeing Porzingis ahead of Tatum in some advanced stats when I looked.
A bit of delusion is the key to success
I don’t want to make an official statement, but I find it convenient that SAS and Perk said that Tatum, American, is the new MVP favorite, while the four players that are above him in the race are all foreign players. 🧐
They’re old heads trying to deny the fact that an American guy is not the best player behind the classic “best player on the best team” argument. That argument is only valid in a tight mvp race. Not in a year where you have guys putting up historic numbers
Racism?
@@tropickman That too.
I think there’s one big reason why Stephen A and Perk want Jayson Tatum to win MVP and it’s not because of his performance.
Because he's black and American.
@@kofiboakye6173 thank you.
man, im a Celtics fan, and they just dont want Luka or Jokic winning the MVP. probably the same situation as last season. smh
He b black
Obsession 😂
Isnt it obvious that they are just trying to get more people to bet Tatum will win so espn can collect when he doesnt? Why else bring up ESPN bet?
What’s the difference between this channel and the LOW post i’m genuinely asking
he's trying to make as much money as possible by asking the same subs to go to all his similar in content channels. scummy tactic
@@jacobmcklowski4428lololol I hate that the truth is that funny 😭😭 money over everything man
@@jacobmcklowski4428 getting more content is scummy???
The LOW post is daily news
Foot on the Line is more critiquing NBA media and people who are prominent figures
@@jacobmcklowski4428my guess is that he probably had a plan for this channel and how the content would differ but got too lazy/gave up on the idea but cannot delete/abandon this the channel for obvious reasons
You dont even need to watch NBA. Luka has averaged 28.5 points, 8.6 rebounds and 8.2 assists per game in his career and Tatum has 23.0 points, 7.2 rebounds and 3.5 assists in his career. Diferents in huge.
you didn’t even mention how stephen voted jokic 2nd when the nuggets were the 6th seed that year
LUKA is truly the MVP. Kept his team afloat while his starters missed 70 games. Triple more than the next MVP candidate and are within 1 game of the 5th seed and 5 games from the 2nd seed. Mavs might get a top 4 seed by the end of the season.
BS that is total CAPPING ….WTF have you been???? Taking all those Terrible Shots, turnovers and No Damn Defense period. Hell if it wasn’t for Kai Dallas would be out of the damn Playoffs picture period. Thanks to Kai and the other Dallas Team Players they will make the Playoffs period. Stop 🛑 giving Luka credit he doesn’t deserve at ALL. Kai got his Azzz looking to pass now before just comings down the court dribbling the hell out of the ball and forcing a DA Shot. Nobody truly wants to PLAY with Luka!!!!
@@SoloLLC don't speak on my team you don't even know what you talking about. Watch basketball my guy
@@TheGarciaKidd WTF are you???? I speak on what I want to speak on period. I said what I said and I damn mean it….now what….you can’t handle the TRUTH????
@@SoloLLCbro Kai has missed almost half of the current played games how tf is he keeping them in contention ????
@@SoloLLCKai has missed almost half of the season so far… How TF has he exactly kept them afloat?
this guy knows more about basketball than espn analytics.
they need to strip Perkins and Smith of their voting privileges and give them to you. because you are actually very knowledgeable, non-prejudice, and a very logical analyst. We all know Luka will be the real MVP but we know how SAS and Fat Perk feel about them white folk and I'm asian.
This dude is verifying all the arguments I make with fan boys during lunch breaks, I needed this, lord knows I needed this channel!!!
Boston Celtics; the ESPN champions three years running.
not true at all but pop off
They’ve played some good regular seasons, but haven’t gone all the way yet
Not saying he deserves the MVP but the way people talk about Tatum is crazy disrespectful.
Compared to the other guys in the NBA race it’s not even close, he’s miles behind right now.
Tatum is most definitely a top 5 player in the league. His resume speaks for itself. I’d agree with LOW if shai wasn’t in the conversation but here we are and shai is top 3 in votes. Tatum should’ve been in the race more last year but this year he should be in the conversation. It seems that these knocks only affect JT all the other candidates have all stars and all nba caliber players on their roster but Tatum is the only one that’s getting a knock for it. Make it make sense.
Jokic and Shai don’t even have all star or all nba teammates on the team with them and Luka was the only player on his own team that made the all star team this season
He’s not a top 5 either.
What resume? What has Tatum won? Mr Streaky and Mr inconsistent himself
@@LeetraviusMcKay-q6mJamal? J-Dub and Chet? They weren’t named all stars but they definitely play at an all star level.
@@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m literally every other vote getter has an all star or all nba caliber player. All the previous mvps have the same. Embiid won last year with harden on his team who was leading the league in assists. Tatum has JB and he’s disqualified aite
LOW I MISS YOUR STREAMS ALSO WHAT HAPPENED TO PLAYBACK??? Did agent ruin a good thing AGAIN???
Facts what happened
True what happened…
ong what happened
Fr what happened
Exactly what happened
I don't get why the NBA is allowing sports media personnel to vote on the NBA MVP when they could include players and coach or other league personnel so the opinion isn't so one sided by personality. The voter fatigue as well plays a roll in why people don't want to give Giannis or Jokic MVP.
Perkins last season “you need to take post season success into account that’s why I’m voting for Embiid over jokic” meanwhile Joker every year RAISES his game in the playoffs and Embiid seems to always CHOKE in the playoffs.
This season- “ it’s a regular season award that’s why I’m voting for Taintyum” TAKE THIS MANS VOTE AWAY
😭😭😭😭He’s called JOKER for a reason. He should be playing RUGBY with that body and lack of coordination. 2 time MVP…F…ing laughing. Tell him to get in shape and look like a baller instead of blimp.
@@TomSkinner-cn7mg You're braindead.
@@TomSkinner-cn7mg lol how small minded you must be to judge someone solely based on their appearance and not their character, merit, talent, heart. Gtfo clown.
@@TomSkinner-cn7mg you do realize joker played more minutes then anyone else in the playoffs last year? You do realize that every single season he plays in damn near every game? While whooping all your favorite players who “look like ballers” asses without breaking a sweat. Joker is one of the best conditioned athletes on the planet.
it’s actually sad to see them try so hard to push an mvp candidate no one should consider. like i get it, boston has the best record. but tatum as a player is simply one step below embiid, jokic, and i’d throw luka in there too.
As a Celtics fan, Tatum is my guy, but I think he needs to do a little bit more stats wise to win an MVP. Although I look at these other guys, averaging all these crazy numbers, but it doesn’t translate to winning. Their team isn’t as good so of course they have a higher usage rate.
Well it all comes to most valuable player. He’s not that valuable when you have the best team around you. You could argue the big difference in this year Celtics is Derrick white moving to better roll on the team and of course porzingis. You see, Boston has so much offensive arsenal that there’s no defense that can keep op with that. They are the best team and the deepest roster in the NBA. That’s it.
@@DrcakesgamingTatum is just as valuable as any other player , if you wanna argue he doesn’t have to put up bigger stats because of his team compared to others , 100% but u can watch games and he makes the Celtics 100 times better , good teammates have never been a knock , like lebron in Miami , so why for Tatum?
@@revampmusic56
Lebron in Miami was leader of the advanced stats. Tatum barely makes top 20. In the age of analytics advanced stats wins MVP.
13:11 is crazy he’s disrespecting Tatum more than anybody has ever disrespected Giannis and jokic
Tatum was quite literally in the mvp talks in 2022
No he wasn’t.
Jokic 9.8 vorp
Tatum 4.8 vorp
@@isiight.you’re a clown. He finished #4 in MVP voting, so he was quite literally in the conversation.
@@ke3p1tco0l2finishing at a distant 4th place isn’t “being in the conversation”. If he doesn’t have a real chance of winning it, he wasn’t in the conversation. The only dudes in the conversation that year was Jokic, Giannis and Joel
@@gabrielnieves9974 When people say, "in the conversation", they're not only talking about the top-3 finishers. Tatum was literally a leading vote getter in early season polling, and later dropped to 4th as Embiid and Giannis went godmode to end the season. But finishing at 4th doesn't mean he wasn't in the talks for MVP throughout the season.
Hot take: When the Talent pool is too much in the league, I can understand narratives playing a role in qualifying/disqualifying certain players. I don't think Tatum will win MVP, but if he wins a Title, the winning may sway some voters.
Ok I can't agree with you on this one. Tatum is completely deserving of an MVP, and fleeing the best player on the best team should matter. Also you can't say "Tatum can't be MVP because he is expected to do good, his team is expected to win" that's bs. 27, 8, Ballin on both sides and having the absolute best record, should matter.
Record is a team stat. He contributes less to wins, even though his team has more of them. How does that make you MVP?
It gets what you're trying to say and all, but isn't that the way/reason why Steph Curry won his first MVP?
Best player on the best team has always been a go to argument for MVP when there is no clear cut person having an all time year or something of that sort.
Bro LOW needs to be invited to debate these analysts. His pokes on their plot holes makes me so fucking angry that the analysts think their opinions are what really matters. When Stephen A. yelled out "GIANNIS?!" I fucking lost it my goodness
It's obvious why. They don't want it to go to another international player. Joel Embiid did what they wanted and sood out to play with USA so they were happy to gove him another. The next 4 candidates were all international. Jokic, Giannis, Luka and Shai. So they need it to go to an American, so now it's time to cook the books because if an American don't get one of the next 3.mvps, with Wemby looking the way he's looking, they might not get one for a decade plus.
1000% agree perkins started the Joel narrative against Jokic and he shaped the way Jokic was viewed
If Mitchell and Booker didnt deserve MVP, then Tatum and SGA dont deserve it. Its always been Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Luka (maybe Steph and KD for a year or two), for the last 5 years. To vote anyone else is just blasphemy. SGA being over Giannis and Luka in the race is even worse than whatever spot Tatum is in.
They built the "no post-season success" argument to discredit Joker, because they believed he'll never win anything, and now they have to backtrack lol
I kind of empathize with Tatum on this one. Like he obviously cares about the award, so when someone like Windhorst mentions that the 22 finals could be affecting his perception around the league I see why he’d run with it.
Not to even say Windhorst is wrong. A lot of Tatum’s perception right now does come back to how weirdly terrible he was in that finals. And a lot of voters probably do hold that against him.
The biggest problem for me is that the voting is made up of people like Stephen A and Perkins, but also Zach Lowe types. And there’s not really a consistent method for what being an mvp means
Lebron in Miami was leader of the advanced stats. Tatum barely makes top 20. In the age of analytics advanced stats wins MVP.
Anyone but Jokic.. it’s crazy 😂
ANY ONE BUT LUKA & GIANNIS IS CRAZY
Except jovik and embeid just won MVPs before they won a championship? Tatum sends embeid home in the playoffs every year. Tatum scored 46 in an elimination game at Philly and scored 50+ on an elimination game in Milwaukee. Tatum gets penalized for being on a good team I believe but Tatum has been in the eastern conference finals like 5 of 6 years since he entered the league and people forget his only 25/26. He was 23 in that finals. How did lebron do.in his first finals?
This is what I call the KD effect
First take/media over exaggerate a players abilities
Then online discourse over critiques or over expects from an athlete
What the hell does this have to do with Durant
It's maddening that mad dog came on and for once spoke facts when he said Tatum isn't better than 8th in the league
MVP candidates in Denver, Dallas, OKC are a nightmare scenario for ESPN
Bro said Tatum is not consistent is laughable
Can't wait for ESPN to stream free on the ESPN sports book app.
Jayson Tatum is the most consistent star in the league and this narrative is getting way out of hand. Yall like seeing players play hero ball and want to see a guy either lift his sword or fall on it, he could lead the league in scoring, it's just not the best way to win games, 5 conference championship appearances in 6 years as the best player on your team since age 20 but he isn't good enough... Its really these guys bro like y'all point to stats like he's way behind, he isn't. I'm just glad it doesn't seem to carry much weight with JT because y'all just pick a narrative and run with it without even taking any opposing arguments into account
What opposing argument? Claiming that a guy who contributes less to wins over the course of a season than all the other MVP contenders, while his team has more wins, takes some serious mental gymnastics to achieve. His team is stacked. The worst starter is Jrue Holliday. That guy was the 2nd/3rd option on a team that actually won the chip.
Does anybody know LOW deleted that MPJ/WNBA vid?
Are you sure he deleted it or it got copyrighted?
What was it about?
@@Mvfasalwaysidk maybe it did get copyrighted
@@shawnhoops9168basically reacting MPJs comments on the wnba and then reacting to a wnba players reaction to MPJs comments
They’re so cap, saying the best player on the best team, half the mvp winners in history weren’t on the best team, they change their requirement based on who they like in that very moment
???most mvp winners don’t have a winning season what are you talkin about??😂 russ is literally one of the only players that got mvp and his team was the 8th seed… jokic 1st seed last year, Philly was the 3rd seed when embiid won, warriors went 73-9 when steph won😂lebron on the heat(obviously they were 1st seed at the least 2nd). D rose(66-16 bulls)Literally the last like 15 mvps those players were on 1st-3rd seed teams except russ💀you ain’t been watching basketball bruh lmao.
“Tatum wasn’t in the conversation before he lost in the finals”
So, because he wasn’t in the conversation as a 23 year old that means he shouldn’t at 25? What are you even saying lol
Strawman. That statement, in context, was a rebuttal to the statement claiming he was only not in the debate because of the finals loss. He didn't just assert that from nowhere.
Tatum is definitely top 5 right after Luka at 4
I feel like low is the preacher trying to save my basketsoul
Low SAS did pull for Booker in 21-22 I remember him beating that drum... Booker didnt have to sacrifice his scoring like Tatum did this season... Tatum averaged 30 pts last year and sacrificed his scoring for the betterment of the team... Booker didn't have to do that, he was the scorer on that team
“Sacrifice his scoring ” he stacked stacked his team to win championship. What does that have to do with booker playing with cp3 ayton bridges
LeBron won MVPS on The Heat with Wade& Bosh so calling The Celtics is ridiculous they have 2 all stars
I DisAgree with Low on the Fact he said Tatum ain’t Good Enough, Cause Tatum is Top 10 in the League & has Been for 4 Years Now!…Nash, WestBrick & Rose Won in the same Exact Situation!…
When Nash Won; Kobe, LeBrick, Garnet, Nowitzki, Duncan & Melo were ALL Better!…When Rose Won it; Kobe, LeBrick, Melo, Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade & Durant were ALL Better!…When WestBrick Won it; LeBrick, Harden, Durant, Curry & Kawhi were Better!…I Think SGA or Tatum Should Win it!…
My only problem with it is that MVP should never go to just “best record on best team.” It’s about VALUE. Derrick Rose, LeBron, Russ, Giannis (just to name a few), have all won their MVPs off being the true most valuable player on their team and in the entire league at one point or another.
As a Dallas Mavericks fan I'm just conditioned to accept that Luka Doncic will not win the MVP and this season he really should have more looks this year
Im glad you mentioned this. It’ll be a lot to type rn but if you look at what they’ve been talking about on First Take, they’ve been talking about who’s gonna be the face of the NBA after Lebron retires but all the primary candidates are foreign players including Shai (which I didn’t know til recently) which makes him completely overlooking Shai for Tatum make sense now and they’re trying their best to make that person an American born player cuz it would look better for the league which is JT but he needs some accolades first. I think they’re tryina narratively push him to be MVP to say “look at our new future face of the league” ESPECIALLY if Boston wins the chip and he gets Finals MVP too. Bron don’t got much time left in the league
The way he’s just pushing JT over EVERYONE ahead of him out the blue is insane and I don’t think it’s a coincidence it came right after the episode where they spoke about the dominance of foreign players and who would take over the league after Lebron leaves
the "take X player of this team" logic is so dumb, most of the time they talk about Stef, but you could say that about literally every other dude and you get the same result. Oh, if you take the best player of a team, the team would be lower in the standings, no shit genius.
Low comparing tatum stats to jokic, luka and shai is hillarious because i bet he won't bring up Tatum's defense being by far the best out of those above him outside of giannis and the argument of "of course they're the best bc they built a superteam" is stupid because didn't Lebron win mvps in miami when they were easily considered if not the best, but one of the best teams in the league? What about MJ? I agree he doesn't deserve MVP but to use these as arguments is lazy imo
Lebron in Miami was leader of the advanced stats. Tatum barely makes top 20. In the age of analytics advanced stats wins MVP.
I think you should check the defensive stats again😂
SGA is probably making an all-defensive team this season, Tatum isn’t. Check your facts
@@gabrielnieves9974 yeah bro i’m fs taking shai over tatum defensively 🤓 and he not making it bro ur wilding. jrue, d white n caruso pretty much have the guard positions locked up
Tatum is really hoopin this year lol. Like he has gotten better. Best player on the best team. He has a case. I always thought this. He is definitely good enough
Mvp voting is always inconsistent and its always been narrative base. If mvp is about efficiency and stats then it will become a big man award only. Jokic giannis and embiid will always be more efficient jus due to position. For Tatum to win he gon need that steve nash D Rose type narrative
The truth is is that this brand of basketball isnt the same brand if basketball American players grew up playing. That why we dont do as good
Looking at the comments, it's clear alot of people don't know the history of the NBA. Historically, it's an award that goes to the best player on a team that finishes top 3 in their conference. There have only been a handful of exceptions. I got 1.SGA 2.Tatum 3.Jokic 4. Giannis🤷🏾♂️
It’s simple he’s has not had the best seasons. He has a great team but he has the best roster in the entire league probably so he’s doesn’t have to do as much as other players. Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, and Luka are consistently better than him. I’d still probably take Steph, KD, and Lebron over him at the moment. He has a lot inconsistency in the playoffs and has been outplayed by Jimmy Butler in several playoffs series despite having better supporting cast. Jayson Tatum is very talented player but there has never been a season where you could call him the best player in the league or had the best season for him to be a top MVP candidate.
27.1/8.6/4.8 for Tatum, shai 31.1/5.5/6.5, it's not like it's a huge difference there... If u had up it's 27.1/13.5 vs 31.1/12... But shai has the defense so it's not even close... Plus the efficiency
..
Jokic is unbeatable statistically...
What I don't understand is how having brown who is better than anyone the others have, is a case for Tatum as MVP 😂😂😂 SAS is wilding lol
Well, Tatum’s team is a little bit better so his usage rate isn’t gonna be as high. Jaylen Brown is good but why should that hurt his MVP case
I mean Tatum has defense too, but his individual impact hasn't been as much as Shai for his team. But fr like Tatum's playing with Jaylen, Jrue, Derrick White, Porzingis.....meanwhile Shai out there with Jalen Williams, Josh Giddey, Lu Dort, and Chet 😂 The talent and skill gap ain't even remotely close
@@Mptappin12 you just answered it lol
And I never said it hurts or should hurt, I Said how does it make his case better.... How does having the only All star out of the 3 makes his case for MVP better than the others? Lol it's plain stupid
@@BT405 shai is probably gonna be an All defensive player this year Tatum is not even the better defensive player on his team... Playing with 2 All defensive players...
Jokic is VERY beatable STATISTICALLY, but the one player who can beat him has 0 influential advocates in NBA media or even the NBA Twitter/podsphere. Easiest argument to make is Giannis is an offensive statistical match and defensively superior.
Last year he even had the best record in the entire league and still didn't even finish 2nd let alone win it.
This all about them finding the face of the lead. They've been trying to give it to Tatum for the past two seasons.
Brother u fucking COOKED 🤣🤣🤣
"they're going to do the same thing to embiid" bro just got a pity trophy last year when jokic had his best year ever just because they didn't want him to win it 3 times
Great video man.
I love this video man. I appreciate the honest and unbias. It’s actually sad what the nba media is becoming. They media needs there votes stripped all together because of certain guys that want to abuse the integrity of the game.
What happened to playback?
this man is huge why should I care what he say why is the NBA recommending me this ?
This man stephen a talkin up tatum's efficiency...the guy is 6'8 with guard shooting splits
jayson tatum needs to become a villain. he needs the league to turn on him and needs to embrace it. he needs to really lose, not just come up short. he came into a smooth sailing team (apart from kyrie) and it’s been solid ever since. in his mind he’s probably always gonna be a 1st to 3rd seed so I think he’s complacent and the franchise reflects that. he needs that hunger. something needs to light a fire under him that’ll translate to the rest of the team like his college days. he wants to be like kobe and takes everything from kobe, now he’s gotta learn the way kobe did.
Longevity has nothing to do with MVP Candidates or previous success/failure. Technically the MVP should go to a player that is elevating his team, but the voters going to vote for popular players.
Awful takes about Tatum but I’m not shocked. Going to the playoffs every since his rookie year no matter who was on the team hurts u I guess. Either Records matter or they don’t . Different excuses every year.
SAS: “the man averaged 30 points last season”
also SAS: “it ain’t about his performance in the finals a couple years ago”
😂😂😂😂
Damn LOW I’m ngl I woulda rathered the buzzing noise in the background over the audio cuts trying to suppress it
Imo averaging 28 8 and 5 on by far the best team should get u the MVP.
we all know regular season MVP is a popularity contest...The metrics whatever they may be need to be changed
the same people who voted russ voted jokic so voters don’t exist to me
Let's just appreciate the fact that 4 of the top 5 current MVP candidates are foreign-born players.
American media is soo desperate for an American MVP, this will bw the 6th year in a row with a foreign MVP
Imagine getting cooked in a debate by Shannon Sharpe. Stephen A. Smith might have to retire.
Bruh be cooking these shows logic! 😂😂😂😂
Low are you going to do a video on Austin Rivers and Patrick Beverley crying over Doc Rivers
Just bc he doesn’t chuck up 236 shots a night and sometimes get fifty doesn’t mean he isn’t THE most valuable player
His defence, rebounding, consistency, mentality and team winning is clear by miles than Luka
Id say he’s a better scorer (for his shots) than Luka too
He is literally close to him on one half and miles clear on the other half
Just shooting up points and being good doesn’t make you valuable to your team
Doing everything amazingly makes you valuable that’s why he is valuable
"Id say he’s a better scorer (for his shots) than Luka too " no he isnt.
Whats the difference between this channel and low post.. genuinely asking
Great analysis. Is clear that they do everything to deny Jokic his third MVP
Big LOW 💪🏾
Great vid. ESPN has become a joke. The fact that they employ Perkins is all that needs to be said.
Never forget why Perkins didn't think Jokic was MVP las year. Mark Jackson didn't even put Jokic in his top 5
Yo what happened to playback
I don’t know if Giannis should win, but that Bucks team ain’t even making the play in if he’s not on the team
Good point. This should definitely go into consideration
What Stephen A. probably meant to say was "He's the next black player after Joel Embiid"
if you take tatum off the celtics, all you got left is jaylen brown, part time porzingis, derick white and 2 guys thats retiring in a couple years
You trusting that?
I would love to see LOW on First Take and prove how inconsistent everyone is 😂
it's pretty simple
The moment embiid got injured, Jokic became favorite to win MVP with SGA and Luka behind him. Once that happened they started this Tatum push because they don't want joker to get mvp number 3.
Celtics been best team all season and no one ever mentioned Tatum then all of a sudden he leapfrogs everyone? add mitchell and brunson to that list