Repertoire: The BEST Sibelius Symphony No. 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2020
- Sibelius' most popular symphony has endured a remarkable number of really bad recordings, some by otherwise noted Sibelians (Bernstein and Karajan among them). Happily there are also some great ones, notably by conductors not otherwise associated with this composer.
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Born in Cleveland long ago, I am fated to be a Szell fan. But that live Sibelius 2nd in Tokyo is really something special for everybody, and I hope all Sibelius lovers will have a chance to hear it. DH mentions this elsewhere (in his ideal Sibelius symphony collection talk, I think ), but Szell was mortally ill (with bone cancer) during the Cleveland Orchestra's tour of Japan in May 1970. No announcement had been made, but it was clear to the orchestra that he was visibly struggling to get through the concerts, and I can't help but think that the orchestra sensed that Szell was dying and gave him everything they had in that concert. He died barely two months later, with the orchestra told at intermission of a Blossom Festival concert to gather for an announcement after the concert (if you have the Cleveland 75th Anniversary CD set, you can hear the Boulez/CO performance of Prokofiev's Scythian Suite that was played that night). One additional moment of anguish: Japanese TV broadcast the entire concert live and taped it, and after Szell's death sent the tape to Cleveland. It was broadcast on Cleveland TV, after which (following protocol) a technician _erased the videotape_. Oh, to have that concert on video! But maybe that would have been too much to bear. Michael Charry's biography of Szell has a photo of the end of the video, with Szell's image superimposed over the orchestra as the last notes sound. Ave atque vale.
While the Szell/Concertgebouw is also a top choice, there is something amazing about that Tokyo performance - to me, the performance (especially the second movement) really sounds like it's being led by someone who knows that he is conducting in the shadow of death.
Gibson's is so beautiful, warm and radiant, exactly as you say. I always come back to it and it has become my favourite.
I was introduced to this symphony with the old Monteaux LSO recording which I still love. I get quizzical looks from people when I name Monteaux as my favorite conductor of all time.
Wow, I learn so much just from the commentary on the music itself. Really fascinating.
Thanks for such an informative and entertaining channel. I'm glad to hear Sir Alexander Gibson get an appreciative mention. Growing up in Edinburgh in the 60's and 70's I developed a lifelong love of Sibelius from hearing his concerts with the (then) SNO and was lucky to be exposed to many other works in impressive performances. He was unpredictable, and not always well, but when things worked, he could reveal the essence of a piece through his own exceptional musicality.
The RPO/Barbirolli recording on Testament (paired with Sibelius 5 with the Hallé) is tremendous. His mother was dying at the time and this had an incredible effect on him. You can really feel it in his interpretation.
As with Szell's illness, these circumstances _matter_ to the performance, and Barbirolli's extraordinary performance gains an additional dimension when one knows the context. I just listened to it again last night, and the line notes said that his mother died the next day, if I recall correctly. And Barbirolli (as well as Jonel Perlea) died within a day of Szell too.
New to Sibelius, new to this channel and extremely grateful to Dave for my "continuing education!" I have to pipe up here and say that IMHO Leif Segerstam's Sibelius 2 live with Turku is absolutely as good as Szell's, while quite different (slower, more majestic).
We need you to present your beautiful cat that we see on the back walking! 😊
Aside from the Mahler 6 and Wagner "Ring" Excerpts, Szell's Tokyo performance of the Sib Two with Cleveland in 1970 was maybe the best exhibition of what I believe was the greatest orchestral brass section (and one of the greatest symphony orchestras overall) ever assembled.
Great talk as always. Very interesting. Love Sibelius.
I remember the first time I heard the live Szell recording. I was just overwhelmed by the sound of the trumpet fanfares at the beginning of the fourth movement and there were just several moments that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up because they were so exciting!! Great choices! As always with your videos, there are a few recordings I haven't heard and I can't wait to hear them! Thanks so much for these videos. I am really enjoying them!
You're very welcome.
I'd love to get my hands on the Live Szell, but it's impossible to purchase. Where did you get yours? In lieu of that I was going to get the Philips studio version.
I recently discovered your channel, and subscribed right away - thanks so much for all of the reviews! I went for this particular one today as I have always struggled with Sibelius #2, even though I love all of his other symphonies (especially 5 and 7). I now realize it is because I have listed to second-rate recordings! I love the Szell / Concertgebouw recording and feel like I am hearing the symphony as it was meant to be heard for the first time. Thanks so much! Now, if only I can find the live recording of Szell's....
Welcome aboard, and thanks for listening--to me and to Sibelius. Yes, having a great performance sure helps, doesn't it?!
@@DavesClassicalGuide It sure does. Having been a lover of most things Sibelius for many years I had always wondered why I had a "blind spot" (or is it deaf spot) for his second symphony - his most popular symphony! Now I know why - and thanks for your help again!
Finally tracked down the Monteux with LSO. Wow! What a stunning recommendation. The playing is occasionally less than perfect, but it is fresh and exciting as all hell! I bet he could really bring down the house. And the man was 83 or 84 at the time. It’s just astonishing, really. If only he were still with us.
Mackerras also made a recording of Sibelius 2 with the LSO on MCA, which I have greatly enjoyed. As with his RPO performance, he uses a different timpani part in the last movement’s coda. Instead of trills on G and D, he has the timpanist play G-D-D loudly. It is quite effective, even if not in the score. Word has it that Koussevitzky changed the part with Sibelius’s permission. The only other recording I know that does it is the older one by Anthony Collins.
Dave, I listened to BOTH Szell recordings and they are OUTSTANDING! So moving and with purpose and clarity. These performances made my day.
Dear Dave. I just listened to Mackerras .....WOW I imprinted on Monteau, then heard Szell but Sir Charles is spectacular
Playing this work next week. Looking forward to your BEST recommendation.
Superb David, thanks so much. I have been driving in the car, and going through versions of No. 2, looking for the one I had on CD years and years ago, and now cannot find via streaming. So this was a godsend. You articulate here all that I find fault with in the recordings I have most recently listened to: a feeling of bloatedness, and of forced emotion - when, if you let it rip, the emotion in Sibelius is so powerfully there, spontaneously. So I really enjoyed this, and learned such a lot: the sense that Sibelius is about movement, and flow. Really great. Bravo and thanks.
I listened to the Szell / Concertgebouw performance right before watching your video and couldn't agree more with your thoughts about it. The Szell / Concertgebouw is a life-enhancing experience. I'd love to hear the Tokyo recording, if I can ever access it without spending big bucks.
Wonderful to see your cat slinking around in the background! I live with a similar-looking "tuxedo" cat. I hope yours is still alive and healthy.
That was Pipo and she passed away a couple of years ago.
Haven’t bothered to read the comments but what you said about the trombones in the finale- thank you! Also about not taking too long… yes! My favorite finale performances are fast and ones where you can clearly and predominantly hear the brass😍
THANK YOU. I am a fan of Sibelius#2 because of the Sir John B. recording. I will find your other two favorites by Szell.
Having just bought the big box set, I had to get the Szell Tokyo CD to fill the notable hole. £25 from Japan ain’t too bad. Thanks for the lesson!
My first Sib 2nd was Barbirolli's Halle : bored me to tears. Then I saw Gennady Rozhdestvensky conduct in Boston Symphony: turgid and flabby, it turned me against the work for decades. Then I found the Philips disc with Szell's Beethoven 5th & Sib 2nd - intending ONLY to play the Beethoven and then hit the STOP button. But with the CD remote on the other side of the room, and with pizza delivery knocking at the door, the Sibelius began, anyway...That did it. (Thank you, Uncle George.)
Your channel opened my eyes to Szell's artistry. I had earlier only 2 CD with him (Mahler Wunderhorn on EMI and a cheap Sony compilation with Beethoven piano concerto No. 5. and Symphony No. 5). I listened to them again and I listened to some youtube content and I am totally amazed. That clarity, that precision and "correctness"! At the weekend I bought some old Sony "Essential classics" CD release at the local second hand shop. (I am a CD collector so CD is my primary source.) I've just listened to them on my stereo. These are excellent too. However! I have a big problem with the balance. The percussion (especially the big drum, a little bit the timpani) are too far at the background. The ending of the Pictures at an exhibition for example although excellently shaped, can't give the complete excitement without the big drum strokes. I don't know if the newer remasterings correct this problem. Or maybe was it Szell's original intent? Actually I have this problem with almost all of the "modern" instrumental version of the classical/baroque period. The large orchestral Mozart/Haydn recordings from 50's, 60's and 70's almost all put the timpani to the background, sometimes completely blurred by other instruments. In my opinion the HIP performances, especially on original instruments are much more better balanced. Of course they have problems too. But I like much more the balance of the orchestra of the original instrument groups in that classical/baroque period. It is personal taste of course.
Thanks David - the Szell Tokyo was my first choice - unfortunately the CSO CD had mixed up movements - thanks also for your great reviews - I used to read Jim Sveda's reviews
Szell was my first Sibelius 2nd. And it still one of the best I had listened to. I just found the DEcca Ed 1 lp by Maazel. It has a great natural sound, it has great moment,
"Mackerras never made a bad recording". I can't agree more! In fact.....even his period recording of Schubert 9th is great.
Thanks for this review of Sibelius 2nd symphony! I have Bernsteins recording with the VPO and am inclined to agree with you David!
Hi' Dave, he revisado las grabaciones destacadas que citas y me ha sorprendido la versión de Sir Charles Mackerras con la Royal Philharmonic Orch, grabación menospreciada -creo yo- por ser sello Tring, en cicunstancias que 1) por una parte Sir Charles no hacía malas grabaciones, y ésta no es la excepción, y 2) además el sello Tring es una división de Intersound, sucesora del ex sello alemán PRO-ARTE, sello de 1a calidad a la altura de un Telarc o un Chesky, cuyas grabaciones son grabaciones para audiófilos. Ademas que en la edición que yo tengo vienen Finlandia y la Suite Karelia, en magnificas versiones! Saludos y felicitaciones!
Great survey. I too would add the Bernstein NYPO performance. The Vienna recording is definitely an odd one; fascinating how the same conductor could produce two drastically different performances of the same piece.
I enjoy that performance too
Evening Dave :-) a lot of new tips in Sibelius 2nd for me -thank you 🙏There are also two great performances that should be mentioned in my opinion - Segerstam with HP and of course Bernstein with NYPO - but that’s just my opinion - keep on recording Dave!
Thanks, and I appreciate the tips back.
Highly anticipated review, being a long time follower of your website i knew you would choose Szell in Tokyo;) I own it for years and you are so right, its incomparable..I could talk hours about Sibelius, hence my username..i would also add one recordings which has always been under the radar: Carl von Garaguly and the Gewandhaus Leipzig on Berlin Classics which i personally like a lot
Is the quality of the french pressing different from the original 2 CD Set?
I have Garaguly too and I think all of his Sibelius is terrific. There are sonic differences between various issues of the Tokyo concert, but I'm not sure which is the "original" set, and they aren't so major and to make me prefer one over the other.
I’ve only listened to two recordings much at all... Bernstein, and Susanna Malkki on TH-cam with the Frankfurt Radio Symphony on TH-cam. I had already loved the Bernstein but I found Malkki took it to another level. Looking forward to checking out that Szell!
She's quite wonderful. I also enjoyed her Y.T. performance of The Erotica with the Helsinki Orch. A caring and lovely shaped performance. She also appears here in L.A. periodically. Hope to catch her later this season.
Thank you for your very interesting review. I've got the Toscanini's version in my library but with the BBC SO; I don't know his U.S. recording with NBC (I know it only by fame); anyway he is very quick and fast but not bombast or empty or whatever else...he shows all the qualities of this score and he shows that one conductor must believe in Sibelius...and, in the 30's, 40's or 50's, wasn't so easy because if there's a composer that was affected by every sort of prejudice (outside english-speaking countries) this was Sibelius...another recording which really struck me is Leif Segerstam with Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra re-issued by brilliant classics...very melodical, big, polished and tuneful! Bernstein with Wiener instead he didn't conducted it...he LIVED the Second Symphony of Sibelius! :) All the best from Italy
Back when I started collecting half a century ago, Stereo Review offered best recording lists. And the Sibelius 2 they recommended remains my particular favorite. Tauno Hannikainen and the Sinfonia of London. I'm sure many you discuss here may be superior; but first loves often linger. There's a sentimental connection, too. My dad knew Hannikainen back in Duluth in the '50s.
The Cleveland Orchestra live performance from Japan is the high point of American orchestral performance in the last 70 years...
What do you mean "American"--how about "World?"
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, I can go with that!
I was wondering whether you'd mention the Barbirolli RPO. The orchestral detailed playing and Barbirolli's unique ear for timbre is just astonishing. The Halle was just not in that league, though I do enjoy that Sibelius set anyway.
I am a little late for that one, and as usual, Dave make me bought a lot of Sibelius 2nd. Blomstedt, Jarvi, Berglund, Szell, Monteux. All those are great, but for me my No. 1 pick as to go to Sanderling with the Berlin Symphony Orchestra. When Sanderling is great he is the greatest.
Agree completely on Szell, but must find the live performance. On "letting it play itself", a caveat: I heard a very talented student conductor do it with a quite-astonishing conservatory orchestra. It was all very fine, but those pauses in movement 2 weren't quite right. The timing was 0.001% off, but they're what I remember, years later. Getting this piece "just right" is much harder than it looks!
I've had Barbirolli and Szell/Amsterdam as my go to recordings for a long time. These days I sample things by download as I haven't the room for a huge CD collection. The revelation for me here was the Monteux/LSO recording which I hadn't heard before. Astounding! I'm frustrated where the live Szell is concerned as I can't get it as a download and they're asking silly money for the disc over here.
Love the Szell recordings. The Cleveland is sublime. No mention of Sir Colin Davis with the BSO? That is a wonderful cycle...
Yes, and I talk about it for complete cycles. I've always found Davis a touch heavy in the Second, even though he's got Vic Firth on timpani (his playing in the Fifth is incomparable).
Thank you for your informative and interesting reviews of this wonderful symphony. That would be great if you could list all the recordings you mentioned in the video, so audience, like me, who is non-native speaker wouldn’t miss the full-information.
I list the discs within the discussion as subtitles usually, but I didn't know how to do that when I made this video--it was one of the early ones.
David, after watching your Reference vid I listened to the Barbirolli for the first time. I especially liked the liberties he took with the tempi, which you mentioned. I thought it was exquisitely interpretative. While I think Szell’s Tokyo blows it away (I know it’s not about what I prefer), I enjoyed it and can see why it’s a Reference recording. I have to hear Szell’s Concertgebouw now.
I completely agree on the finale of Sibelius 2! Keep it moving and it’s stirring, go for breadth and it bogs down. Blomstedt/SFO is my personal favorite, combining excellent performance and very good sound quality, though the engineering doesn't reveal texture quite as much as I would like. It was not reviewed favorably, however, described as “low-voltage”. On the other hand, Ashkenazy/RPO was lauded for its expansive grandeur. So I bought it, and nearly fell asleep by the recapitulation in the finale. Broad, transparent, but way too slack. I prefer the streamlined approach of Blomstedt. Everything shows a tensile strength. The first movement is lyrical capped with the grandiose gestures of hope. The second is incisive, defiantly powerful. The third tight and concise. The trombones makes the rafters shake at the transition to the finale, as they should. The main theme is sleek, not tubby, with epic sweep. The second subject does not build to quite the frenzy that I would like, which is my only complaint. All forgiven upon hearing the coda. It is magnificent, it is glorious, it is among the most stirring, majestic passages of music ever composed, and Blomstedt nails it like only a few others. The reason? As you stated, he does not fuss with it. It’s the way it was composed. He does not screw with the pace, he does not try to add emphasis. He lines it up, gives it a push, and lets the music’s innate momentum carry it to D-major glory. Shivers.
even though I fell in love with this because of Bernstein, I love the way this video puts the symphony into context, and make no mistake I will hunt down the Szell recordings and listen as if my life depended on it
I agree with you about the Szell Tokyo WHOLEHEARTEDLY!!! WOW!
In 1979 Berglund conducted Sibelius 2 at the Leisure Centre in Gloucester (England) (!) The opening was sloppy. Berglund folded his arms and started again. That sharpened the orchestra up and the rest was great.
Hah, funny that you mention Bernstein and Karajan as bad. They were my first two, and based on those, I just thought it was a bad piece. I mean if both Bernstein (Vienna) and Karajan (Berlin) - so different from one another - did nothing for me, who was going to bring this music to life? Well the answer for me was BLOMSTEDT (SFS). In the first five seconds, I said "ah, so THAT'S how it goes!" And I loved it, all the way to the end. And I still do.
(Incidentally, I had the same exact experience with the Eroica: After failing to be turned on by Haitink and Hogwood and whoever - again, contrast - Blomstedt was the lightbulb going on, right from the opening bars.)
The two I go back to the most are Barbirolli/RPO and Davis/Boston Symphony. Barbirolli's is unashamedly a Romantic performance, with plenty of rubati, expressive pointing and some really thrilling fast playing from the RPO. Avoid the later Hallé recording. The playing is so great in the Davis/Boston Symphony recording - the oboe solo in the third movement, the strings digging into the climaxes in the second movement and the brass are hair-raising in the coda of the last movement. Davis is also one of the few conductors who know how to successfully pace the second movement, he holds the tension all the way through.
Barbirolli/Chesky is a wonderfully romantic (but not self-indulgent) performance. Many others I have found to be a bit wooden and dry (Toscanini, Szell). Maybe worth a second look. A nice surprise was Koussevitzky/BSO. He had a completely different vision of Sibelius's sound, and it was hugely effective.
Sir Gibson was on tour in the US back in the Eighties and signed my CD copy of the Sibelius Second at a record store. He was a shockingly nice and even shy man; too nice, as it happened, because this local opportunist shoved about a hundred albums practically into the English gentleman's face and he signed them all without complaint. It was an embarrassment for the record store.
Great picks - I have many of them. Segerstam's semi-demented one is fun, with a strong ending. Sometimes I like the really cold, almost unemotional Scandinavian performance too. Hard to beat either Szell recording, or Barbirolli's well recorded one (whom was always so much better with the Philharmonia and R.P.O., as here). For the truly demented there's Bernstein/Vienna Phil., but the climaxes are certainly powerful. I've always had a personal fondness for Szell/Concertgebouw.
The SzellConcertgebouw recording on Philips record label in 1965 is my favorite as well. The acoustics of Concertgebouw Hall are amongst the world's finest and the legendary (at that time) woodwind section of the Concertgebouw Orchestra set this performance apart from the others.
Although we have a few of David’s recommendations we tend to listen to Andris Nelson’s and the Boston Symphony (on the orchestras own label) the sound is sumptuous
I’ve been searching for the Barbarolli with the Royal Philharmonic, and can’t find it on any streaming services.
I was very exciting about the Hallé Barbirolli version since they really played their guts out there, will have a go on the RPO with him as well, the VPO and Bernstein is a real dragger and somehow eventhough Karajan was a great Sibelian ( the composer loved his 4th the most) I never really got his 2nd...the one with Celibidache and the Swedish radio orchestra I recommend u to listen to here on youtube...by the way the second movement beginning double bass theme with pizzicato says con rubato, never really heard it that way (luckily maybe🙄)
I just listened to a fabulous Sib 2 with the Danish radio symph conducted by Thomas Jensen on Danacord. Its in good mono but its a very exciting and sometimes rough (always a good thing in Sibelius) performance. The couplings are fantastic too (a very driven Lemminkainen suite!) Maybe a talk about the Jensen legacy? There are 3 cds on Danacord
I find nothing special about these performances.
Have you ever listened to the resent cycle with Okko Kamu and the Lahti Symphony Orchestra? I personally find the recording very pleasing because the transparacy is great and Kamu lets the music flow in a very natural way. But I also love the Berglund cycle.
www.classicstoday.com/review/kamus-partially-successful-sibelius-cycle/?search=1
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks alot! Your review shows me new facts about the Kamu recording, which I never realised before...
I first encountered this symphony in the Berglund/Helsinki recording, and I haven't found a better one (admittedly it's a while since I listened to Sibelius). It's a shame Karajan's attempts at 2 were flops. Have you heard his EMI Sibelius?
How hard have you looked to find a better one?
As far as I can tell the top 3 aren't in production at this time. I hope I am wrong but in my search I could only find the Szell on Decca used. If anybody can help me please do! Thanks.
What the cat's name?
I don't think I heard Bernstein mentioned. Maybe you did and I missed it. Anyway, I think his version with the NYPO is tops. Some may argue he overdoes the emotion, but he can make this a moving experience through this recording. Unlike his later VPO reading on DG.
Hi Dave. How would you say that Segerstam's 2nd compares to the best ones you mention in this video? I know you recommend his Sibelius cycle as a whole in another video.
See my reviews on ClassicsToday,com.
Odd question...I downloaded the Szell/Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra recording from Presto Classical, and the download has a gap between the 3rd & 4th Movements (not as bad as the one in the Nielsen 4th previously discussed, but still annoying). Is this gap also on the CD or is this only on the download?
@@Quotenwagnerianer Thanks! I've encountered players that auto-gap. Very annoying! But the one I'm using now is gapless, so this usually isn't a problem. I did find that the CD didn't have the gap, so I'm guessing it was a problem with the download. Appreciate your input!
David, have you heard the Ashkenazy performance with Boston on Philips? Thoughts?
I did not like Ashkenazy's Decca cycle. It felt workmanlike, and the sound mix was artificially exciting in a way I resented. In particular, the bass was too exaggerated.
Dare David, I'll would know your opinion about Sibelius' 2nd Symphonie version with Yuri Temirkanov conducting ST Peterburgh Orchestra in RCA, my preferred version of this work, near to Yoel Levi-Cleveland's conception In TELARC. Excuse my english please! Óscar Olavarría from Chile, South America
Thank you for writing, and for doing it in English. Creo que tienes razón. Temirkanov es mejor. Levi me decepcionó, demasiado suave y un poco aburrido.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Hi' David, thanks for your opinión, and sincere congratulations for your site! Óscar
Completely agreed on the Szell/Cleveland. But since you note that the best Sibelius is quick, what about the Barbirolli/New York performance? That's my favorite, a little sloppy perhaps but it's pretty much the quickest ever set down - including Kajanus. There's plenty of eyewitness testimony that Sibelius himself conducted it quicker than it's ever played today, and in that performance more than any other, you hear not just the classicism but you hear that this is the composer of the last three symphonies and Tapiola. Are you at all fond of that recording?
My recording of Stokowski Symphony 1 with National Phil is accompanied by a NY Philharmonic recording of symphony 2 under Thomas Schippers-have you heard it? Its lively. The disc also has a good recording of Karelia by Philadelphia orchestra under Ormandy (Sony).
Of course I have heard it.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Enjoying your reviews. You're a goldmine.
Hello Dave. No argument from me on your recommendations here. I own the Jarvi/Gothenburg, Szell/Concertgebouw, and Szell/Cleveland recordings; the Jarvi was my first CD of Sibelius and I like it very much , but both Szell performances are superb and are overwhelming experiences (in a good way). I owned the Barbirolli/RPO on Quintessence LP and I agree it is excellent. I would add Bernstein/NYPO as another very good performance, better and more"normalized" than his Vienna remake, which I listen to occasionally to hear the Vienna brass working really, really hard to sustain their notes at Bernstein's tempi (particularly in the finale).
BIS. Energetic and very well played and recorded.
@Kanishk Nishar Not necessarily. I am well pleased with Jarvi's BIS recording as well as several renditions by other conductors and have simply not been compelled to hear Jarvi's DG remake or add it to my collection.
Thank you Mr Hurwitz for your excellent series of videos, which I have only recently discovered.
My favourite Sibelius 2 recording, first heard by me as a student in 1961, is Beecham live, on vinyl, with the BBC SO recorded in London in December 1954. It is just tremendous, but alas the CD versions (the second one 'remastered') are a progressively watered-down, nay emasculated, abomination. Listening to the Barbirolli performance you recommend, it crossed my mind that he was very familiar with the Beecham recording. I wonder if you know this performance (referred to also below by Nigel Simeone) - perhaps you are too young?!!! (Tongue firmly in cheek).
Sure I know it. That's the beauty of recordings. Thanks, and welcome!
I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Horst Stein Sibelius set on Eloquence! That features a fine 2nd.
I think he's very good--was thinking of doing a review, and still may. Victor Carr, Jr. covered his earlier Eloquence issue with the Lemminkainen Legends and liked it very much, and I agree completely.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks! I'm holding out for a more comprehensive reissue of Segerstam's Ondine Sibelius too.
@@UlfilasNZ That would be very nice, wouldn't it? Great stuff, and I'll be talking about it soon.
These are difficult, tragic days to write anything about Minneapolis, but granted at least the publicity about Osmo Vanska's Sibelius cycle, I was wondering about your views on his performance of the 2nd. I hope I didn't listen too rapidly to miss any comment-I think you mentioned the Vanska cycle when discussing Berglund's cycle. That said, I too have been fortunate to have had the Szell-Cleveland-Tokyo performance for a long time, and the Concertgebouw versions too, and could hardly say anything other than that they're just fabulous.
I have reviewed the Vänskä Minnesota recordings for ClassicsToday.com. Here is my review there: www.classicstoday.com/review/review-16316/?search=1
Thank you Mr. Hurwitz for referring me to your ClassicsToday.com review of Vanska's Minnesota Orch Sibelius 2nd. Understood. I've heard him play it and most of the other Sibelius symphonies at Orch Hall in Minneapolis. He wouldn't be the first conductor whose live performances are more animated than his recorded performances. And yes, I think he can get very fussy and bogged down. The most exciting two Sibelius performances I've heard in Minneapolis were the Kullervo and, yes, the Finlandia played after the Kullervo with the YL Male Voice Choir in the choral version with the patriotic Finnish text, not the sappy Christian hymn texts that sometimes have been pinned onto the music. Of course, I also grant that the excitement of hearing something in person is not always replicated when you hear a recording of the same performance you heard yourself.
Jon, I live in Minnesota and have heard most of Vanska's live sibelius as well as much of his other repertoire here. Although I think his Sibelius in Minnesota is good, I do not consider it great. His live performances here on the other hand are often quite electrifying. In my view there is a big disconnect between the live and studio versions. I am of the belief that BIS is perhaps a bit fussy and perhaps the extra takes and need for perfection has sucked the life out of the performances. Their engineering is certainly top-notch, but the end result is too perfect. The Mahler recordings also lose some of the electricity, and I can tell Mahler just is not Vanska's music, even though he want it to be.
The Bernstein / VPO here on TH-cam is awful, and for a very surprising reason. Yes, it suffers from Bernsteinian longeurs, at over 52 minutes (!?!), but maybe because of the excessive sluggishness, the brass, but especially the trumpets, are remarkably out of tune. Sure, it is a live performance, but one would not expect that sort of slovenly imprecision from the VPO...
Great choices. The other Mackerras Sibelius 2 (LSO, originally on Carlton/IMP) is another very strong performance (get hold of it if you don't have it already). But the one that blows my socks off every time is Beecham live (and vocal), once on EMI, then reissued in an over-filtered remastering on BBC Legends. Still, the sound isn't up to much so not a general recommendation, while Szell in Tokyo certainly is.
What do you think of Ormandy's take on this symphony? How does it compare to the others on your list?
Have a listen and you can tell me.
Great review. How about the Koussevitzky and the Kletski? I think them both worthy of mention, even if they might lack some of the good qualities of the one you did mention.
Then they aren't worthy of mention in that video!
@@DavesClassicalGuide I haven't listened to them in a long while. I thought that you might not have heard the Kletski.
On second thought, maybe you should have mentioned some of the recordings that you thought were poor, the way that you did with the Sibelius cycles. That way, it becomes more of a dialogue. I say this, even though I basically agree with you, although I prefer the Barbirolli to the Szell. Your list would not have to be comprehensive.
You hit all my top choices. But you know how early imprinting works: I first got to know the 2nd with Ormandy/Philadelphia and that remains my standard, with Szell and Barbirolli nipping at his heels.
Me too with Ormandy, but for me it hasn't stuck.
Yes some times
Recordings age a bit
But if ormandys was
better recorded
It would be a great
Recording ormandy
Was a very good
Interpreter of sibelius
I must like to pont out
That karajan was
The greatest interpreter
Some people may not
Agree he understood
The music like no
Other conductor
For my money Sibelius 1 is the best of his symphonies (can't wait for your video review on that one...and also on Dvorak's 6th and 7th).
i love it
i also share this i reckon very unpopular opinion (for now at least)
Dave, in praising Jarvi's 2nd on BIS, you commented that not the symphonies in that cycle were so successful. If you've got the time, would you please name the high and low points? I've always meant to explore that cycle...
Please see my reviews on ClassicsToday.com.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I tried that, entering "Sibelius", "Neeme Jarvi", "BIS*, etc. I tried both for specific symphonies and for "Symphony 5". No luck: the search engine kept showing "No Results". (Of course, I'm 72, my hands are shaky, and I'm awaiting cataract surgery; so who knows what the hell I REALLY typed?!?)
@@richardfrankel6102 Use this link. It's a review of his DG cycle compared to the BIS cycle and ought to give you a good sense of the performances: www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12090/?search=1. As a hint, use as few search criteria as possible--all you needed was Sibelius and Jarvi, Neeme--two fields. Nothing more.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Many thanks! It's a succinct review which tells me everything I needed to know.
@@richardfrankel6102 My pleasure.
I agree that the Szell/Cleveland “Live in Japan” is astonishingly thrilling! Hard to get these days. Mackerras is also very good. The worst performance I heard recently was a new one by the Gothenburg Symphony and some kid whose name I forget. Absolutely awful. In the finale he castrates the trombone section and makes the trumpet section do a diminuendo on their fanfare! It’s the rise of the anti-Sibelius.
Santu-Matias Rouvali--horrible, exactly as you described (as I did in my review).
I'm very much into rediscovering Sibelius' symphonies nowadays thanks to your stimulating infotainment about them.
The only thing that is puzzling me a bit, ,f my memory serves me well, you (almost) never (?) make reference to any of the Askhenazy
Sibelius, which is pretty highly recommended by other critics. Not too bad, but neither very good probably.
Yes, pretty much second rate.
Here's some Szell/Clevland/Tokyo trivia for you: not only was an audio recording made of the performance, but a video recording was made, which was apparently one of the first stereo videotape recordings ever made. . . and they (NHK, I guess) erased the tape. . . .
Alas, no, NHK very kindly sent the tape to Cleveland after Szell's death ( only a few months after the concert), and it was broadcast on Cleveland TV, but standard protocols for expensive videotape mandated that single-broadcast tapes be erased for re-use, and the Cleveland technician understandably followed the rules. Not his fault--somebody needed to have stepped in at the start--but, gosh, what a loss. I might add that it's only thanks to NHK that we have the audiotape, and they did a a great job with the live recording. How lucky we are to have it. And, as I wrote in a comment, maybe that video would have been too much to bear with the knowledge that Szell was mortally ill.
@@robertkunath1854 I listened again to my own copy, which includes Robert Conrad's radio commentary, and you're right - it was someone at the Cleveland TV station who erased the tape, which means that there actually might be a copy of the tape somewhere in the NHK archives (just as there might be a copy of the missing footage of Kurosawa's "The Idiot" somewhere in the Shochiku studios - but I digress). Thanks for the correction.
From my understanding, having read a book on the great conductors, that conductors like Toscanini were largely literalists, but those like Nikisch, Liszt (a real showman), and Furtwangler played fast and loose with a score. Its like a parallel between strict and loose constructionists with the U. S. Constitution. Paraphrasing, the author mentioned a conductor saying he got his interpretation from X who was a student of Y who was a student of Z and Z got his interpretation from Liszt. Toscanini would say something to the effect of, "I read the score."
Except that the book you read is completely wrong.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Maybe I didn't remember correctly. I'll try to find the book and look this up.
I wouldn't worry about it. It's a common and facile misjudgment about both Toscanini and Furtwängler.
Only Szell..1) The Tokyo Live performance or 2) the Concertgebouw performance. Everything else pales in comparison
Robert Kunath, Yes, that Szell recording from Tokyo, cannot be surpassed in my opinion. Anything Szell, and The Cleveland Orchestra performed was always at the highest level.
What about Akeo Watanabe ?
You must be kidding.
I agree that Szell makes an extrordinary rendition of this symphony. However (hahaha) I would add a version that always had moved me. It's Karajan's, but the one he made with the Philharmonia Orchestra. Perhaps it's an acquired taste, but for me is a performance in which his tendency to achieve only a luscious string sound is not so prominent yet, and some of the virtues of his best Tchaikovsky's recordings are somehow present, like well sosteined melodic lines and a pace maybe slow, but with a growing tension that for me, conveys at the end a feeling of having reached the top of my mountain. A romantic approach, which conveys more expresivity that his Berlin's recordings. I fancy that Bernstein try to achieve this effect in his second recording of the work, but with mannierisms that result in a Bruckner 8th- Poème de l'extase- Tristan and Isolde- Chariots of Fire mixture totally fake and artificial. My second best is Mackerras'. Very exciting too and incredibly equilibrated, allowing to appreciate the sound architecture right from the baselines. I enjoy very much and learn even more in your channel. Keep listening from Mexico.
Thanks for sharing!
Paavo Berglund
Szell Live is BEST!!!!!!!!!!
You've missed a few of my favourites out.:
Yoel Levi and The Atlanta Symphony on Telarc.
Jukka-Pekka Saraste and the Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra in their first cycle on RCA.
Maris Jansons and The Oslo Philharmonic on EMI.
Vladimir Ashkenazy and The Philharmonia Orchestra on Decca.
And where is Simon Rattle in this review?
Of the above, my favourite is Jukka-Pekka Saraste, who was an Associate Conductor with Paavo Berglund at The Finnish Chamber Orchestra in the 1990's.
Saraste yes, The rest...not! Rattle in Sibelius is a non-starter for me.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I agree with you on Rattle, he can be too analytical.
The great thing about watching these videos is that there is no single way to interpret a score.
I have followed your recommendation and just ordered Karajans Respighi 'Pines of Rome' on Discogs so look forward to comparing it to Muti in Philadelphia.
@@jeremybalchin6872 Please let me know how you make out.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Will do.
I've been listening to Ashkenazy's Shostakovich 5th this afternoon. I agree with your written review but it is still a good version. Don't forget that in the mid 90's when it was released many of your American reccomendations were unobtainable except on very expensive imports at Tower Records in London and it made sense to purchase a British Label version available in almost every shop at the time. That's true even today when Post & Customs has to be factored in.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I have received a copy of the disc but it's a little too 'used' although the inserts are ok. I've ordered another copy in the hope it will be closer to 'mint'. The current COVID-19 lockdown is causing discog, Amazon and e-bay orders to take longer to arrive. It"s another reason why I mourn the loss of physical shops as I can't cherry pick the best copies in the best condition! I usually end up having to buy 3 discs to make one 'mint'.
I might try the first copy, the playing side looks ok but the label side is not good. In fact, in the process of cleaning the label side, the lacquer has actually started to come off, just using warm soapy water. I've never known that happen before.
I should add that my research indicates the original 3 disc set has been slimmed down to a 2 disc set in the currently available editions on budget labels, and one of the 'cuts' is Respighi's Pines of Rome, 🙍♂️🤬.