It's been a decade since I first read Worship Matters. I've been encouraged by the ministry of Bob Kauflin since that time. I appreciate the multi generational focus that even this podcast points to. I don't really have someone like a Bob in my life but as a pastor I have tried to encourage and equip those who I have been blessed to serve with to pursue biblical truth in music ministry and to consider the theology of our body of songs that we play for our church. So I thank the Lord for the resources that SGM has provided and would like to think that they have had an impact on the churches I have been blessed to serve. Thank you guys. Keep up the good work.
I love SG, and this ministry has been a huge blessing to me. Having come out of word of faith/prosperity gospel/hyper charismatic background I would caution toward much more hesitancy to play songs from groups with questionable theology. And let’s be honest, we’re talking mostly about Hillsong, Bethel, and Elevation. We all know it. I won’t lead a song from one of these groups because I will not lead any person in our congregation to the conclusion that their teachings are at all acceptable. Much less one of our young people. They are depending not only on our pastors to be faithful shepherds, but also our worship leaders. And the shepherd fights off the wolves. Thank you guys for your ministry. It is a huge blessing to so many of us out here.
While I have heard of the 3 ministries you've mentioned, I don't really know why or what is going on with them, that people don't want to, or shouldn't, play their music. I think I did hear that one of them (I can't remember which one), has a pastor that doesn't preach about sin and consequences. When I've heard a piece of music, and the words glorify God, that make me weep, ... I don't really know who the artist is, and frankly don't care. It's the draw towards Christ and realizing how filthy my sins are, is what makes me love a particular song.
God's mercy is not limited to granting us salvation. We can ask Him for mercy in all circumstances, in our consciences, our suffering, our doubts. God answers prayers for all kinds of outpourings of His grace and this is not limited to our justification.
Money aside, what about supply and demand? Every time a church utilizes music from the big 3 it increases demand for their abhorrent theology. Also, for the critical thinkers in the congregation, oftentimes the song brings up thoughts of ridiculous teaching coming from the source.
Also, you have to worry about an ignorant or young believer looking into these bad organizations and getting pulled in. And also when your church sings their songs you have an appearance of affirming what they teach. Mark and avoid as we are commanded
From the things they’re saying, I’m inferring that singing a song from a potentially questionable source doesn’t tend to happen very often for these guys. It’s pretty unlikely in the first place that a questionable source will produce a song that truly stands up to SG’s discernment of Christ-exalting and church-edifying characteristics. But instead of writing off the possibility of any song from x source serving our context, it’s wise to consider additional nuances when/if a particular meriting song should come our way. I think that’s what Bob is saying at 5:47. Though contexts matter, our ultimate task is choosing songs- right ways of responding to God as revealed through His Word by His Spirit- not contextual connotations.
I believe they have to pay realties to the producers of those songs. They are then supporting a false gospel that leads people who are hungry for God to hell. Why even consider such songs when they can create their own? Did I miss something ?😞@@octaviusstafling
To go back to the money point for a second, I have to disagree with you brothers. There's a difference between spending your money and the church's money, and giving it to a religious organization and a secular one. Giving to a secular organization doesn't make a statement of support we all know that. But we would never give money to Kenny Copeland's church. Why? It makes a statement of support. We would never donate to a mosque or Buddhist temple, it makes a statement of support. Furthermore, we are called to steward our money, and even if it is a small amount we're spending, that money which is being spent on usually just ok at best songs, frankly doesn't seem to be a good use of money, no matter how small it is. We aren't to support false teachers in any way, the scripture makes that clear. And it also just gives rhe impression to our congregation that we affirm or at very least don't care about this organizations theology if we are willing to give them money, which could prove to be a snare to an ignorant or young believer and cause them to be dragged in. Otherwise great episode guys!
The discussion on rehearsals reveals a blind spot in the wisdom of these guys. Don't get me wrong, they are wise and excellent at what they do for the most part. If you have a team that can play a song for the first time during the actual service, without making mistakes, you are in the 1% of churches. Most of us don't have that team, professional or otherwise.
@@davidzimmermusic One of you said, and I'm paraphrasing, "it's okay if the singer only plays through the whole song for the first time during service." Most churches don't have worship teams that can pull that off, unless you're talking specifically about backup singers who aren't actually heard in the mix.
Bob Kauflin here. I'm going to jump in on the conversation! First, thanks for commenting. Like David said, we don't use professionals. We have a few people who are very good, but most are college students or just members of the church. In reference to the comment I made about a singer hearing the song for the first time in rehearsal, I was saying first that our songs shouldn't be that hard to pick up. If they're too difficult for a vocalist to learn in a rehearsal, then they're probably too difficult for the congregation to sing. That doesn't mean vocalists/musicians shouldn't be familiar with the songs in advance. But some vocalists and instrumentalists have the mentality that you have to "nail it" when a better perspective would be that we are there simply to support and join in with the congregation. That requires good leadership, but not musical perfection. Thanks for listening to the podcast!
If you have a CCLI, then you are giving money. Period.🤷🏻♂️ and I love SG, but blowing off CCLI and comparing to other ungodly businesses we support is deflecting and not really addressing the matter.
Supporting false teachers promoting their blasphemous agenda 🤔 The word says to beware of false prophets and teachers, not to join forces with them. I thought you guys were different! 😞😣☹️
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It's been a decade since I first read Worship Matters. I've been encouraged by the ministry of Bob Kauflin since that time.
I appreciate the multi generational focus that even this podcast points to. I don't really have someone like a Bob in my life but as a pastor I have tried to encourage and equip those who I have been blessed to serve with to pursue biblical truth in music ministry and to consider the theology of our body of songs that we play for our church. So I thank the Lord for the resources that SGM has provided and would like to think that they have had an impact on the churches I have been blessed to serve. Thank you guys. Keep up the good work.
I love SG, and this ministry has been a huge blessing to me.
Having come out of word of faith/prosperity gospel/hyper charismatic background I would caution toward much more hesitancy to play songs from groups with questionable theology. And let’s be honest, we’re talking mostly about Hillsong, Bethel, and Elevation. We all know it.
I won’t lead a song from one of these groups because I will not lead any person in our congregation to the conclusion that their teachings are at all acceptable. Much less one of our young people. They are depending not only on our pastors to be faithful shepherds, but also our worship leaders. And the shepherd fights off the wolves.
Thank you guys for your ministry. It is a huge blessing to so many of us out here.
Yeah, they dropped the ball on this point imo, buy otherwise they are a great ministry
While I have heard of the 3 ministries you've mentioned, I don't really know why or what is going on with them, that people don't want to, or shouldn't, play their music.
I think I did hear that one of them (I can't remember which one), has a pastor that doesn't preach about sin and consequences.
When I've heard a piece of music, and the words glorify God, that make me weep, ... I don't really know who the artist is, and frankly don't care.
It's the draw towards Christ and realizing how filthy my sins are, is what makes me love a particular song.
God's mercy is not limited to granting us salvation. We can ask Him for mercy in all circumstances, in our consciences, our suffering, our doubts. God answers prayers for all kinds of outpourings of His grace and this is not limited to our justification.
Money aside, what about supply and demand? Every time a church utilizes music from the big 3 it increases demand for their abhorrent theology.
Also, for the critical thinkers in the congregation, oftentimes the song brings up thoughts of ridiculous teaching coming from the source.
Also, you have to worry about an ignorant or young believer looking into these bad organizations and getting pulled in. And also when your church sings their songs you have an appearance of affirming what they teach. Mark and avoid as we are commanded
I struggle with that too
Amen
From the things they’re saying, I’m inferring that singing a song from a potentially questionable source doesn’t tend to happen very often for these guys. It’s pretty unlikely in the first place that a questionable source will produce a song that truly stands up to SG’s discernment of Christ-exalting and church-edifying characteristics. But instead of writing off the possibility of any song from x source serving our context, it’s wise to consider additional nuances when/if a particular meriting song should come our way. I think that’s what Bob is saying at 5:47.
Though contexts matter, our ultimate task is choosing songs- right ways of responding to God as revealed through His Word by His Spirit- not contextual connotations.
I believe they have to pay realties to the producers of those songs. They are then supporting a false gospel that leads people who are hungry for God to hell. Why even consider such songs when they can create their own? Did I miss something ?😞@@octaviusstafling
Very helpful. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
To go back to the money point for a second, I have to disagree with you brothers. There's a difference between spending your money and the church's money, and giving it to a religious organization and a secular one. Giving to a secular organization doesn't make a statement of support we all know that. But we would never give money to Kenny Copeland's church. Why? It makes a statement of support. We would never donate to a mosque or Buddhist temple, it makes a statement of support. Furthermore, we are called to steward our money, and even if it is a small amount we're spending, that money which is being spent on usually just ok at best songs, frankly doesn't seem to be a good use of money, no matter how small it is. We aren't to support false teachers in any way, the scripture makes that clear. And it also just gives rhe impression to our congregation that we affirm or at very least don't care about this organizations theology if we are willing to give them money, which could prove to be a snare to an ignorant or young believer and cause them to be dragged in.
Otherwise great episode guys!
I really didn't know they basically have to "pay" to use a song?
The discussion on rehearsals reveals a blind spot in the wisdom of these guys. Don't get me wrong, they are wise and excellent at what they do for the most part.
If you have a team that can play a song for the first time during the actual service, without making mistakes, you are in the 1% of churches. Most of us don't have that team, professional or otherwise.
We don't use professionals on Sundays. We rehearse the songs before the service. It's ok if people make mistakes.
@@davidzimmermusic One of you said, and I'm paraphrasing, "it's okay if the singer only plays through the whole song for the first time during service."
Most churches don't have worship teams that can pull that off, unless you're talking specifically about backup singers who aren't actually heard in the mix.
Bob Kauflin here. I'm going to jump in on the conversation! First, thanks for commenting. Like David said, we don't use professionals. We have a few people who are very good, but most are college students or just members of the church. In reference to the comment I made about a singer hearing the song for the first time in rehearsal, I was saying first that our songs shouldn't be that hard to pick up. If they're too difficult for a vocalist to learn in a rehearsal, then they're probably too difficult for the congregation to sing. That doesn't mean vocalists/musicians shouldn't be familiar with the songs in advance. But some vocalists and instrumentalists have the mentality that you have to "nail it" when a better perspective would be that we are there simply to support and join in with the congregation. That requires good leadership, but not musical perfection. Thanks for listening to the podcast!
@@SovereignGraceMusic Thanks for both of your responses!
What is the previous podcast episode they are referencing in the first segment?
th-cam.com/video/G6kF7jGkjL8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=DF9_rXTUag0fggJA
What is the BPM for “Be Still, Be Still My Soul”?
David Zimmer here. Tempo is♩ = 74. For charts or more info go here: sovereigngracemusic.com/music/songs/be-still-be-still-my-soul-psalm-46/
If you have a CCLI, then you are giving money. Period.🤷🏻♂️ and I love SG, but blowing off CCLI and comparing to other ungodly businesses we support is deflecting and not really addressing the matter.
Supporting false teachers promoting their blasphemous agenda 🤔 The word says to beware of false prophets and teachers, not to join forces with them. I thought you guys were different! 😞😣☹️
Exactly