How To Program DSC NEO From the Keypad

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2024

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  • @damonharder9849
    @damonharder9849 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Just was using the power series and had to go the neo dsc this video got me thru my installation very helpful thank you

  • @juangonzalez-bl1ot
    @juangonzalez-bl1ot 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks to you and your videos I just landed a great paying job .God Bless

  • @edc6524
    @edc6524 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello, great video. In the video at 8:20, the entry for Phone Number 1 "Receiver number to the Central Station", is this the number the alarm panel calls when the a sensor is tripped? Assuming this is setup for landline. Thanks.

  • @JustAnotherDronePilot
    @JustAnotherDronePilot 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is the kind of content I need before I purchase these. Just had a question regarding wireless things. Do we need the expansion board if we're just programming wireless zones?

  • @pablovarela1089
    @pablovarela1089 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    First of all your videos are amazing, thanks, now I m using a USB / DB9 adapter to connect with the DLS 5 and the pannel of my DCS but when I've try to connect as you did in your video, after 30 seconds shows up a message "The panel can not be identified", any idea how to fix it? Thanks

  • @jaredstyles
    @jaredstyles 8 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Wow, you really know your stuff. Great tutorial!

  • @nimapourreza
    @nimapourreza 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Many thanks for your video, Im using the RF series of Key Pad, so please let me know if I use 8 zones as wired, do I need zone expander for adding 3 wireless windows sensors?

  • @evythefish21
    @evythefish21 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    You are the man. Question... I have a slim contact that recently had its battery changed. Once I've enrolled it its showing a tamper that cant be cleared. I'm thinking it's a bad sensor. Your thoughts?

  • @jona1721
    @jona1721 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks, great teaching.
    Is it possible to make the call to my mobile phone instead of to the monitoring center?

  • @RYCS9
    @RYCS9 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Can you use an icon keypad for programming?

  • @danielanang1626
    @danielanang1626 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    want to ask now that you put the communication N will it still communicate to the center room

  • @dominictoon7768
    @dominictoon7768 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello and thanks. One thing. How do I find which user a proximity tag is assigned to? I have programmed tags but they have become mixed and I do not know which one is which.

  • @Brian-Boomer-Beattie
    @Brian-Boomer-Beattie 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    We have a DSC Neo2064. We found that in our church if someone remains behind and is walking about we would have expected that the system would not let us arm the system but in fact the system arms and the person arming leaves. But the "forgotten" person still inside now sets off the alarm upon motion. What did we program wrong? Thanks!!

  • @ethan-01
    @ethan-01 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Super helpful, great pace, really appreciate you putting this out

  • @V21IC
    @V21IC 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Excellent! I wish I had since this about a year ago!
    Good stuff!

  • @adonsondasouza8976
    @adonsondasouza8976 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Can this system work with a self monitoring module??

  • @mostafa.cheppih3590
    @mostafa.cheppih3590 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you!! i am from morocco and i live in Belgium. It is very helpful for my work.

  • @jonathanhart2840
    @jonathanhart2840 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm trying to add a PG9303 to this keypad to replace a PG9975, but it says "Unknown Device". Do you know if the id needs to change or how to get it to work?

  • @rinico75
    @rinico75 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    When programming labels I like to put before the name of zone the zone number ex Z1 FRONT DOOR or Z2 BACK DOOR for me makes it easier for service later on Thanks good video

    • @rinico75
      @rinico75 ปีที่แล้ว

      Very helpfull when troubleshooting

    • @randallsmerna384
      @randallsmerna384 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Just write the zones in pencil on the inside of the panel door. 🤷‍♂️

  • @stanislawkosciolek2054
    @stanislawkosciolek2054 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    In my previous house security person installed above garage entry, red LED light which help me to see that system is armed or disarmed when I am using remote. Useful. Where that light can I connect (on keypad) and, do I need special programming?

    • @christopherstigson6377
      @christopherstigson6377 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      For that you will need to use PGM (programmable outputs), usually it's wired with (-) in aux and then PGM 1 (+) for example, then under PGM programming on page 11, put PGM 1 as 115 (I think), System Armed Status, that will put power (12V DC (+) from PGM and (-) from AUX) into LED light if system is armed. Hope it helps (a little late)

  • @lukebergin2853
    @lukebergin2853 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Inregards to the 'Event Reporting' Menu 308 if I need the Panel the send opening and closings to CMS do I need to turn off "Opening after alarm"? At this stage it will only send the openings and closings if the system goes into alarm while armed.

  • @farhadsadikhov8700
    @farhadsadikhov8700 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How to turn on supervision feature for panic button PG9938 so that trouble is indicated on the panel and reported to alarm monitoring station?

  • @caciocavalloster
    @caciocavalloster 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi, first your videos are great! Very clear info and easy to follow you. I have a neo hs2064 with a HS2LCDRF9 keypad (built in PowerG transceiver) and I am using the keypad zone to connect the front door. I can't find where or how to program the keypad zone. Can you help? Thanks.

  • @paulsastroutomo4273
    @paulsastroutomo4273 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    I never worked on NEO rather the PC1616, 1832 series, I assume your tutorial applicable to the PC series as well, please advice. Thanks for the great tutorial

  • @davidverbora5417
    @davidverbora5417 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would this be the same for a dsc 1832 v4.6 with a Tr5164 transceiver and ptk5507 with both wired zones and wireless zones. Right now i have wired zones and some areas i dont want to run the wire, so wanting to add wireless zones. Also can i add an additional wireless keypad that would work together with the wired devices and wireless, and communicate to the wired keypad.

  • @dominicbarbas4183
    @dominicbarbas4183 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi i do have a question I have installed 4 dsc neo panels my latest question is when i use a mag and a optex vx40 together and the battery runs low the optex unit the tamper siren goes off to tell me that the unit is low battery . It upset my client is there a way to turn off the beeping noise and just refers to the low battery on the lcd screen so he does not have to listern to the beeping till i repace the battery.

  • @shanedorney2755
    @shanedorney2755 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome video. one question thou, what if i want to HW loop two doors with one wireless contact? how do i program that to function properly?

    • @theautomationguy4726
      @theautomationguy4726  9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Shane Dorney Thanks, you will need the DSC PG9945. Check back in a couple days i will post a video so to help you out.

  • @michaeldouglas8866
    @michaeldouglas8866 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome tutorial, Is it possible to use a DSC - SCW9057 system to take over a Brinks BHS - 2000D. A wireless takeover will be use for the contacts.

  • @JonDoles352
    @JonDoles352 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice video. What keypad are you using?

  • @joshuagriffin2807
    @joshuagriffin2807 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    thanks man you helped me with training for my new job

  • @wizz747
    @wizz747 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you please make a video on how to program DSC Zone attributes?

  • @cacolina23
    @cacolina23 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi. I have a system with a wired keypad. I want to enroll a wireless keypad. How can I do that? Thanks for your comments

  • @pedrogarcia-kd9fm
    @pedrogarcia-kd9fm 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    hello again, this programming only for ADT and/or Alarm.com?
    Can you use this programming for any monitoring company?
    how about a new take over? Can you explain this one please?
    do you have a basic cheap-sheet just for the everyday installations?
    Thank you

    • @jogog9204
      @jogog9204 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It's cheat sheet Pedro not cheap sheet !

    • @V21IC
      @V21IC 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think it's best to create your own according to your company's requirements for its Receiver(s) settings (Reporting, Notifications and Downloading)

  • @c0ll3r
    @c0ll3r 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Whats "slot" needed for exactly ? I have wired and wireless devices, more than 20 zones, but when adding on z17 it writes me - slot error. What is that means? 3 modules on slot 1.

  • @stnstns
    @stnstns 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Is it possible to program the panel to call to a mobile phone just in case of alarm?

    • @Catalyph
      @Catalyph 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      yes, you will just get fax noise though.

  • @SSheenySS
    @SSheenySS 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can I install 2 motion detectors on a cable with 4 wires? For an example wire has Red(R), black(B), Yellow(Y), green(G). Use R&B to power both detectors. Use Y as nc contact and resistor for c contact and going to -. For second detector also R&B for the power and G as nc with resistor for c contact and going to - ? Will pannel Neo 2032 understand that?

    • @theautomationguy4726
      @theautomationguy4726  9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Eugen Corbu yes you can connect to motions on one cable. Parallel the power, and put the other wire in series. so for example bring the 4 wire cable to one motion and run a 4 wire jumper to the other motion use the same power for both. if you want both motion to be tripped before the zone go into alarm use a parallel hookup. if you want either one to trip use a series hookup. hope this help

    • @SSheenySS
      @SSheenySS 9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +The Automation Guy
      Can I split them to 2 zones like at this screenshot? bevik.ru/info/img/podkljuchenie-po-trehprovodke-dvuh-datchikov.jpg
      Or it is better to run another 4wire cable?

    • @theautomationguy4726
      @theautomationguy4726  9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Eugen Corbu Sorry bout the late response I have never used this method. It looks like it would work they share the same common. However I would always recommend using separate wire. Its easier to trouble shoot in the future. How far will these motions be away from each other? Is it a must that you have 2 zones?

    • @SSheenySS
      @SSheenySS 9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +The Automation Guy Yup, I want them separatly. 1 in master bedroom and 1 in kids room. They will be about 6-7ft away from each other and about 30ft from pannel.

    • @theautomationguy4726
      @theautomationguy4726  9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Eugen Corbu Ok, So its not that from the panel I would totally run a new wire.

  • @akaeldin
    @akaeldin 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    so when you program the key pad does it show the name of what is open like front door that it will display. thanks

  • @jacksprat2200
    @jacksprat2200 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    How to add another main panel? I need 2 panels for first and second floors. Thanks

    • @catalinbizgan6321
      @catalinbizgan6321 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      do you need another panel or another keyboard? Another panel can be superseded with a single panel with 2 partitions

    • @jacksprat2200
      @jacksprat2200 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@catalinbizgan6321 Thanks

  • @johnkawas6805
    @johnkawas6805 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi. I currently have the DSC PC1864. I heard about the DSC NEO. Is there great difference between the 2 systems? Also, If I were to replace a non-functioning keypad (I have 6 the PK5500) with a new DSC NEO keypad, -will the keypad work with the PC1864? Also, does the new DSC NEO keypad allow me to change to different chimes? Or does it still have the same ones?

  • @definitehotshotwill
    @definitehotshotwill 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Where can i download that booklet with codes that you have?

  • @trainmasterxxx
    @trainmasterxxx 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey Automation guy! I have a question.. I'm starting in the Security field and our company uses so many systems, Ademco, Honewell, Simon XT, 2GIG, you name it. Will the codes you used on this DSC system pretty much work for most of DSC's systems?? (*2 and *8 etc) Aside from maybe the way the settings are laid out in the touchpad.

    • @guesswhomartin9249
      @guesswhomartin9249 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      To answer your question: No. You can program the same installer code on all those panels you mentioned, but the programming is different depending on which panel you have in front of you.
      I noticed this comment you made is like 4 yrs ago. You probably don't need this information anymore.
      Have you have a great day.

  • @livefootagetube
    @livefootagetube 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have the 1616 model same model as this but a little older my number 14 contact is no longer working I purchased a new contact online but I do not know how to add it can you please tell me how to add it onto my system thank you so much my unit looks just like yours but the LCD screen is green not blue all the same exact buttons

  • @MegaSportsman7
    @MegaSportsman7 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi, would the programming be similar using a PC1616 Board, with a TR5164 wireless receiver and WT5500 Wireless Keypad? Thanks

    • @christopherstigson6377
      @christopherstigson6377 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, it's similar (professional alarm technician, we use PC1616 and NEO). Only BIG difference is manual entering of the wireless devices, no "auto learn". You can find it under *8 [installers code] > 804, then you enter the wireless code manually for each one, like zone 01 = 01 in the menu that appears, then put your Wireless code for example 32D423F it will tell you how to write it on the device, like "32*4*423*6*", do each one for each zone.
      Also changing codes is a little different, and no text, so need to go off manual if you don't know it by heart.

  • @alyasniah5362
    @alyasniah5362 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    How to enroll 2nd or 3rd keypads and how to connect fire sprinkler system thanks for your time

    • @aetd106
      @aetd106 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      If you're trying to monitor a sprinkler, you could probably use a water-flow sensor hooked up as a hardwired zone programmed for either 24 hour fire (if you really want an alarm when your sprinklers activate) [zone type 007 for delayed, 008 for instant on the Neo] or 24 hour sprinkler if you're not worried about UL certification/insurance [zone type 048]

  • @guardianrobotics5474
    @guardianrobotics5474 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    So how do you enroll the keypad

  • @nhlanhlaen0ck281
    @nhlanhlaen0ck281 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks man, your videos are awesome too my company

  • @raulrodriguesconduto8079
    @raulrodriguesconduto8079 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    on which zone definition or zone type, have I to put my smoke detector on, instant or interior?

  • @billymills4060
    @billymills4060 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I need to know how to add a Repeater to this same system.

  • @floresdiegoar
    @floresdiegoar 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great Tutorial Man , Thanks !

  • @liemtran6049
    @liemtran6049 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a yellow triangle> press *2> and it shows 2, what’s wrong? And how do I fix it?

  • @ProtekmaxSolutionsdeSecurite
    @ProtekmaxSolutionsdeSecurite 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Très instructif. Merci beaucoup!

  • @yamilpiedra555
    @yamilpiedra555 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great Video man! One question, how can I delete a zone? Specially when you are using the simple HS2ICN keypad. Thanks in advance man!!

    • @bricende1
      @bricende1 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Yamil Piedra just go on section 804 and scroll back and would see delete zone and replace zone and on delete zone and you selected the zone number u would like to delete and press * and you good to go

    • @V21IC
      @V21IC 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Also when you setup zone definitions the zones that you are not using or no longer wish to use set it's definition to '000'.
      The other commentary about section[804] is where add new, modify(replace) and delete devices (ESN) from the system.

  • @adambierschenk7836
    @adambierschenk7836 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for the great video. I am having a strange problem where after I "press any key to enroll keypad" my keypad says ready to arm, but all of the keys are unresponsive. None of the keys beep when I press them, and I am unable to enter any programming. I have switched out keypads, wires, power supplies, and main boards and continue to get the same result. Do you have any thoughts on what might be causing this or what I am doing wrong? Thank you in advance for your help.

    • @theautomationguy4726
      @theautomationguy4726  9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Adam Bierschenk Thanks Adam, Try removing all but one keypad power the panel back up and trying it again. Also try taking the keypad to the panel just in case you have a bad wire. be sure to remove any other device such as receiver, zone expansion etc... only one keypad on the data bus.

    • @adambierschenk7836
      @adambierschenk7836 9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +The Automation Guy Thanks for the reply. I removed everything but one keypad and have it hooked to controller with a 3 foot wire, still getting the same result. I read somewhere that the voltage on the corbus should be 13.5 vdc between black-red, 6 to 8 vdc between black-yellow and 9-11 vdc between black green. I am getting 13.6 between black-red, but only 1.85vdc on the other two. I have tried two different main boards, transformers and keypads all with the same result, so I am not sure where I am going wrong.

    • @theautomationguy4726
      @theautomationguy4726  9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Adam Bierschenk I'm not sure whats going wrong. if you've tried replacing the panel and your still having he same issue then is is very interesting. so i put a volt meter on the panel here is the readings i have. Red & black =13.71, Red & yellow= 11.80, Red & green = 11.80, Black & yellow=1.85, Black and Green =1.85.

    • @adambierschenk7836
      @adambierschenk7836 9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +The Automation Guy I finally got it to work. What I did was hook up two wired keypads at the same time. Then one of the keypads started working but the other one didn't. Then after I did some programming and restarted the system, both keypads started working. I also noticed that now the AC power indicator light is on, where as before it was not. I have no idea what the problem was before, but everything seems to be working now. I really appreciate your help, and I would be lost without your videos. I can't wait to check out some of your other ones!

    • @theautomationguy4726
      @theautomationguy4726  9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Adam Bierschenk Glad you got it working had me scratching my head for a sec. Thanks and happy to know the video was helpful to you, good luck.

  • @drewgost
    @drewgost 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    I am having trouble getting the phone connection, can you elaborate more on connecting the phone line.

  • @carolstrickland386
    @carolstrickland386 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you.. This tutorial was very helpful.

  • @marcuskvarnstrom
    @marcuskvarnstrom 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you for making and sharing this. Informative as always.

    • @theautomationguy4726
      @theautomationguy4726  9 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Marcus Kvarnström Thanks, Hope this help with your installation. If you have anything question don't hesitate to ask.

  • @Floodland-bn3ol
    @Floodland-bn3ol 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very informative video. Thanks.

  • @ahmedal-battey1175
    @ahmedal-battey1175 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    hi i need if you have dsc wiring and programing ...ive seen welly helpfull

  • @danialmohlathe3267
    @danialmohlathe3267 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    How do i do partition two for outdoor beams

  • @LoiNguyen-le2xk
    @LoiNguyen-le2xk 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    All zones on my system cut off some how or deactivated when Zones, doors and windows are opened PC 5501 keypad does not say "OPEN".

  • @dennislo5535
    @dennislo5535 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi i have a TL2803G ver 5.0 do you all know how to program it step by step Pls help TQ

  • @colinlanders955
    @colinlanders955 ปีที่แล้ว

    How do I enable downloading

  • @iamreedox
    @iamreedox 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The list of all the tools needed for this DSC installation

  • @kuatesx2
    @kuatesx2 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for Share basic tutorial. i am programer al DSC Pannels. But Neo its very similar.

  • @gregbinder9042
    @gregbinder9042 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    very good glad to see that ya dont remove the d

  • @josetapia5223
    @josetapia5223 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    you didn't show how to enroll the key pad how do you do that?

  • @keithbraham6438
    @keithbraham6438 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks! You are a Star!

  • @xariskotsias9619
    @xariskotsias9619 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    πολύ κάλο ευχαριστούμε thank you .

  • @XsavioR38
    @XsavioR38 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Mine didnt come with the book. :(

  • @lilybedolla9716
    @lilybedolla9716 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Somone broke into my car and took the alarm remote for my home alarm system . How can I delete it off my system?? I have DSC panel. Please help !!! :(

    • @theautomationguy4726
      @theautomationguy4726  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      This video should help th-cam.com/video/28x2wa_GoZc/w-d-xo.html&lc=z13yfb2hhpfuifh4s04cdbh5oz2gurijdzo0k

  • @pierregosselin9704
    @pierregosselin9704 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your explication are perfect Tank you!!

  • @pedrogarcia-kd9fm
    @pedrogarcia-kd9fm 8 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Why this new unit has more programming issues. The DSC Impassa has less to program and easier as well. Also, I'm liking more and more the 2GIG panel... Its way easier than this system by far! These companies should focus on the tech's point of view. Remember the old saying. ( Work smarter NOT harder ).. MY 2 cents!

    • @theautomationguy4726
      @theautomationguy4726  8 ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree. I have contacted them about a few issue still waiting on a response.

    • @mrconfidence77
      @mrconfidence77 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      The Automation Guy can you send me a cheat sheet via email ?

    • @dallie8206
      @dallie8206 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I totally agreeing with you. I have been installing dsc systems for year that most times I don't use a program manual. Now its as if I'm back in school. with this neo system.
      I'm way older now so patience is not my virtue.

    • @V21IC
      @V21IC 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I like the DSC Neo. The first panel I ever programmed. And, in 2nd place the PC Series!
      I don't have experience with panels earlier than PC16xx/PC18xx ones.

  • @kirubelasfawify
    @kirubelasfawify 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks man.

  • @FranciscoMendoza-zf1ej
    @FranciscoMendoza-zf1ej 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very useful, thanks for share.

  • @abproductionmedia208
    @abproductionmedia208 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice video

  • @nimapourreza
    @nimapourreza 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great❤

  • @JoeHamz-gc9zn
    @JoeHamz-gc9zn 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very interested

  • @mikey1356
    @mikey1356 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    thank you brother

  • @randallsmerna384
    @randallsmerna384 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Bro, great instruction but you've got questions here that are 7 years old that you never addressed.

  • @toddy1966
    @toddy1966 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Your wellcome guys

  • @paulsastroutomo4273
    @paulsastroutomo4273 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks much

  • @omotayosamuel49
    @omotayosamuel49 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good day

    • @omotayosamuel49
      @omotayosamuel49 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Please help me, I have dsc that will not trigger an alarm after detecting intruder

  • @Laultimodio
    @Laultimodio 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ty

  • @guesswhomartin9249
    @guesswhomartin9249 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good video in that it has good information..
    However, you're not a good teacher.
    Half the time you're not explaining what you're doing. You're just under the assumption we know what you're doing.
    For example: you never explained what you were doing when labeling the zones. How do you go from capitalization to lower case letters ? How do you put a space between words ?
    And most important how do you save your work ?
    How do you keep from losing all your labels you just did ?
    Learning the sensors:
    Hold the tamper down for a few seconds, you never explained that either.
    A good teachers knows how to teach.
    Other than that, great video.
    You just have to work on your teaching skills.

  • @tgoredfw1
    @tgoredfw1 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why do you say "I turn this on" without telling us what it is!!!?