Why London’s “Harrods Of The East” Didn’t Quite Go To Plan
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- In the 1920s, the Wickham family decided to demolish a row of shops in London's East End, in order to build a grand new department store - one that could rival Harrod's and Selfridges in the West. They signed a big budget contract with the builders, and shipped in all the stone at great expense. There was just one problem: one of the shopkeepers didn't want to sell...
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FURTHER READING
Story of the buildings on Lookup London - lookup.london/...
Spiegelhalter family history about the shop - www.yorkbeach....
Department Stores Of My Youth by Stories of London: stories-of-london.org/youth/
PHOTO CREDITS
Nail House by Zhou Shuguang - upload.wikimed...
"Our house in the middle of the street "
It was our castle and our keep.
It's just Madness, isn't it?
@@happyundertaker6255 Our house, that was where we used to sleep
Our house, in the middle of our street
That song just fits this video to a T!
Father’s in his Sunday best
I've always loved this little architectural oddity.
I believe this is less an architectural oddity than a intimate look into the “human condition”.
i actually assumed this was a jago video when it first popped up 😂
@@winterwatson6811 same
@@winterwatson6811 tbh even I thought this was a Jago video
@@TheTimTraveller 😂😂
I worked at Spiegelhalters in the mid to late 1970's! - the owners were the two cousins, Michael & Raymond Salter (the family changed their surname before / during WWII) they both worked in Mile End Road. I trained as a jewellery manufacturer and was in my late teens then. The first floor was the workshop where we'd manufacture 1970's 'artistic free flowing jewellery' with mineral slabs etc for the wholesale trade. There is an 'extension' to the story of the buyout Tim ! - The Spiegelhalters didn't want to move for a second time unless it was worth their while so when the Wickham family made an offer, the Spiegelhalters said "Cover the floors in gold sovereigns and you can have the premises" - Wickhams replied "Fine, it's a deal!" much too quickly and the Spiegelhalters then said ...... "Ummm .... that's the sovereigns standing on their sides, not their fronts or backs" (which effectively raised the counter offer by 10 to 15 times). Alas ....... In 1976 (ish) when I was there it was lovely ... I'd work in the shop and the workshop and we'd have lunch made for us every day downstairs. There was a manager named David, a young lady named Eileen, Kay (I think) who was a mature lady who made the lunches and served in the shop and of course Michael & Raymond ...... Lovely people but I was encouraged by Raymond to reply to an advertisement for a job at Andrew Grima, one of the Queens jewellers, which I did and as they say ..... the rest is history. ....... Edit 2 weeks later ..... I remember that the burglar alarm went off once. Raymond Salter and I were in fits of hysterics because it wasn't the loud bell ringing in the street - the old Spiegelhalters had a message which would go through silently to a police station from an old 78 record saying in very early 20th century English (very polite and calm) "This is Spiegelhalter jewellers (and then the address) ... we are under attack etc etc ......... in a reel ..... Think of the old war time messages too .......
Ah amazing - love this! Thanks so much for sharing your memories Adrian
Cool, thanks for taking the time Adrian, that just made the video that bit better (& thanks to Tim too of course)
@Adrian Lebetkin Oh, that's funny! I'm glad the Spegenhalter family held out--I love a good underdog story.
Was Andrew Grima Maltese? 🇲🇹
Bravo Tim!
Bravo Adrian!
Bravo local campaign to save the name Spiegelhalter and frontage!
This channel is one of the few positives to come out of the covid lockdowns for me. Never spent so much time looking at TH-cam! This fellas content is consistently on the money. Great stuff.
+1
As for me, I'm spending just as much time on TH-cam as before. _Everyone has finally fallen to my level._
What an amazing story!
The uncommon name "Spiegelhalter" indeed literally translates to "mirror holder". But that is not what the name was originally meant to mean. It refers to the "spiegelhalde" which is a very antiquated term for the sunny side of a (deep) valley. So the Spiegelhalters (or Spiegelhalders) were those guys who used to live on the sunny side of the neighbourhood. The name is pretty rare in Germany.
Thanks for the info. I know a Spiegelhalter (maiden name), but never thought to ask her the origin. Also, there is a very famous professor. Both very English!
Thus illustrating the caliber of both the content creator and viewers of this channel- facts no one needed to know but we are all better off for enjoying anyway. Now, I must find out about this disused railway station …
@@turingmachine4617 Disused railway stations be damned! Did you know there's some lunatic running around visiting all the new stations that he apparently hasn't visited before?!?!!? Never heard of him myself but he isn't half committed to the whole bit 😂
@@C2K777 😂😂😂
@@rogink Sir David Spiegelhalter? There's a statistician who always makes an appearance on radio 4 called that so had the voice of Tim from More or Less (the R4 stats prog) introducing him ringing in my head watching this vid (he's appeared on PM quite a lot recently too)
You need to visit the home country more often, this was flippin fantastic! Intractable Germans and stiff-necked Britons, who would have thought?
Well, they kind of were british at that poit
yeah, with attitudes like that there could be a war or two!
I remember seeing a house like that in Kyoto.
It was a small single family home surrounded on three sides by a massive hotel.
All I could think was “Good for them”.
The exact same thing happened in Auckland, New Zealand. There's a small shop called Shoe Sherriff, in the middle of a fancy new office block, proudly still operating to this very day as a shoe repair place.
and a court case every law student has to read.
Tram Lease v Croad [2003] 1 NZLR 73.
I think Shoe Sherriff sold and moved a few hundred metres away in 2021
Did someone shoe the Sherriff, but didn't shoe the deputy?
332 Broadway, Newmarket, Auckland 1023, New Zealand
@N Fels 😆
That Jazz-esque rendition of the EastEnders theme was quite something
As a frenchie, this story has an Asterix feel.
Oui absolument !
Ils sont fous ces Londoniens !
Macy's in New York City had a similar problem with a corner lot, nicknamed the "Million Dollar Corner". The owner was a holdout who wanted more than Macy's was willing to pay. So Macy's gave up and built their Herald Square department store/headquarters around it instead.
The holdout building is still there today. And Macy's still hasn't bought it, either. Instead, since 1945 they've _leased_ the upper floors for billboard advertising -- which for the last few decades has been a "⭐macy's" sign shaped like a giant shopping bag. 🛍️
That's the corner of Broadway and W 34th St, which is a Sunglass Hut on the bottom floors. It looks like there's another corner of that block that Macy's doesn't own though, since 35th and Seventh Ave has a small two-story building on the corner, with a Dali Market in it. It's not as high profile a corner though.
And now Macy s is almost dead, will be interesting to see if anyone else will want the corner again
I came to the comments looking for a comment about Macy's and Million Dollar Corner and I wasn't disappointed :)
a similar thing happened during the development of Rockefeller Center later in the 1930's - 30 Rock is sandwiched between 2 holdout buildings, one owner flat out refused to even negotiate a sale
My great, great grandfather, Thomas Wickham, was the brother of the owner of Wickhams Department Store. He died at the Battle of the Somme in 1916.
I wonder if the Wickham's tried offering the Spiegelhalter's a jewellery concession within their department store.
Like Grian!
The jewelry store lasted longer than Wickham's, so the latter may not have been such good businesspeople to go in with.
@@bearcubdaycare You aren't going to know that far into the future. The people at the end of both businesses probably weren't even born at the time of the original offer.
I wondered the same, but then Tim said is was the Spiegelhalters' home too; some of them had grown up there.
There were some Irishmen who owned a pub in NYC and refused to sell TO ROCKEFELLER, the rockefeller centre has a tiny XIXth century townhouse beside it
Is it the what's now a Magnolia bakery?
@@westrim yes
The fact I'm American and still clocked the Eastenders gag shows I'm detrimentally familiar with British culture
of course, they are your ancestors after all
I've never even watched Eastenders and still recognized the tune because so many British youtubers make fun of it
Leeev it ahht Andy, dem Brits ain't worf it!
@@dontspikemydrink9382 Not all Americans hail originally from Britain.
I'm always amused by Tim's choice of background music!
In Amsterdam the Victoria Hotel also has a nail house. Thomas Roosenboom used it for his novel Publieke Werken which also got made into a movie (both recommended).
6 minutes of Tim on youtube is better, but the movie about the Victoria hotel was also pretty good. th-cam.com/video/hMSHWVnCk6E/w-d-xo.html
I would love for Tim to make a youtube video about this one
I was thinking the same :)
It's actually on Netflix, I believe
I live near Whitechapel and I often walk or cycle down that road - I'd wondered why Tesco, Sports Direct and other buildings had that grand second floor! Thanks very much Tim
I think it’s obvious it was a former department store. It sticks out like dogs bllcks.
I went past here every weekday for about a year and literally never clocked this building's existence. Looking on old street view pictures it may have been behind scaffolding at the time, that might explain it.
@@Tim091 Iol - I love reading the comments...
I bought some curtains there back in the 90s. It was a strange place then, great empty space with odd stacks of assorted goods.
Theres also a basement with a gym. I used to go there.
Excellent story. Reminds me of the Current story of a man who refused to sell his terrace in Birkenhead. All the other homes were flattened, and the terraces either side went. A new housing estate has been built and his home is now a detached with its own driveway right in the middle of this new estate. Worth looking out for as a story.
"8 Ways to Turn a Terraced into a Detached. #4 Will Shock You!"
Where can I find this story? What should I search up?
Haha! I never knew something like this could be seen in London.
The modern publishing house Gruner + Jahr in Hamburg/Germany, located directly on the river Elbe, formerly Europe's largest magazine publisher, had a similar problem. The new publishing house on the Elbe was to have four naves (overall, the aim was to give the structure the shape of a ship). In the way stood a few sheds and workshops, which were built there after the war on rubble lots. However, since the buyers acted too arrogantly in the takeover negotiations, the owner of one shed who sold ship accessories refused to sell his property. Thus, only three naves were built. The business closed in the 2000s and the property was taken over by Gruner + Jahr. Meanwhile, the magazine business went downhill (the internet was on the rise) and after the shed was demolished, the site was turned into a small park. In the middle of the park stands the statue of Hermes, the messenger of the gods, on a pedestal that once adorned the roof of the Schmeding company, as the ship chandler was called. The rest is history!
Thanks for that story. I remember it well when I worked in that area in the 1970s. What really struck me then was that the department store had been built, lived its life and then closed and was at that time boarded up and derelict. Meanwhile, Spiegelhalter was still in business. I knew that there had to be a story to tell and now, after all these years you have satisfied my curiosity.
Reminds me of the story in Seattle of the department store built around a tiny house whose owner refused to sell. The story inspired "Up."
Also, something about not counting chickens or incorrectly hitching horses to wagons.
If you ever make it to Buenos Aires check out the only Harrod’s building outside London.
Which has also nothing to do with harrods anymore, it's funny imo
With how fast the pesos is sinking, probably a cheap trip too.
@@ilovelimpfries It's all relative. When I visited, the peso was on par with the dollar. Ooph!
What about 'Little Harrods' in Sam Levy's Village in Harare!?
@@petermorison6653 and there's a harrods beauty in Edinburgh
Reminds me of a drug store (van der Pigge) and a big department store (V&D) in Haarlem the Netherlands, where the same thing happened in 1910. V&D wanted to build a grand store but van der Pigge refused to sell, forcing V&D to build around them.
Last laugh is for van der Pigge though, the big department store has gone bankrupt some 10 years ago now but the drug store is still going strong in exactly the same spot since 1849.
That drugstore owner sounds like he was quite piggeheaded.
Welcome back to London - an excellent video - even if it did feel a bit strange not to hear you say "Bonjour" at the start... the "Alright, everyone" being a welcome scene setter. Plus of course the references in words and music to a certain long-running soap.
Something similar happened in Newmarket, Auckland. A fancy new row of shops (though not on such a grand scale) has an old shoe repairs right in the middle because the owner and proprietor refused to sell. The shop still operates so we're still waiting to see how this resolves itself.
Thank you for this! I moved into the area in the 80s and out in the 10s, and I love learning more about the history.
It's a cliché of films that the big corporation has to build around the lone holdout, it's great to know that it happens in reality
it even got into animation, it was titled Above or something
Thanks for this Tim. I believe that Mr Wickham was my great-grandfather, but I've never actually visited the building. It was great hearing more about it!
Hi, Jon. My great great grandfather was Thomas Wickham, the brother of Mr Wickham who died at the Battle of the Somme in 1916. We are probably distantly related.
Doesn't sound like that distantly!
As somebody who scrolls mindlessly on TH-cam for longer than I care to admit, this, this is what I was looking for without even realising! This video was brilliant thank you so much
In America we call these “hold outs” either they’re stubborn, want to get more money, or just don’t want to see the family home/business be demolished.
There’s also “Spite houses” and “Spite walls” where you build something to ruin the view from someone else’s property and since it’s on your land, they can’t do anything about it.
In America, you just bribe the local government to 'condemn' the hold out, force them to sell to the government under eminent domain, then immediately resell it onto the developers who wanted it in the first place for a tidy profit.
@@Iamthestig42069 You do it - stick it to the man lol!
Check out Stompie the tank in London Old Kent Road..
Quite a few of those in Toronto.
Once again, you told me an awesome story i had never heard about. I love these random little facts, i could watch this channel all day!
The EastEnders theme song at the end…perfection!
Great video and interesting story! I'm lucky enough to work in those offices now and whilst it's clearly nothing like it would have been, some of the Wickhams department store features remain, like the huge walk in safe and ornate glass domes in the ceilings. It's an interesting site.
I've walked past Spiegelhalter in Penzance countless times, never knew the name had such an interesting history!
LOL!
Know this one! Researched it myself after continually seeing it and thinking "hang on a minute..."
Good to see they've finally finished renovating it.
There is a similar story in Amsterdam, where in the 1880’s the Victoria Hotel on the Prins Hendrikkade was built around two houses because the owners refused to sell them.
There is even a nice movie about it: th-cam.com/video/hMSHWVnCk6E/w-d-xo.html
And there’s a book and a movie about that story: “publieke werken”
I used to live just opposite this building - for the entire time that I lived there, I never saw the beautiful off-centered beauty of a building, as it was being polished up and was covered in scaffolding. Alas!
I love your quirky little videos. Your random stories are always told in a way to get a chuckle or smile out of me. Another interesting story I didn't know I wanted to hear about. Thanks Tim.
You want to check out the site of the old Middlesex Hospital on Mortimer Street. The developers had to build around a grade 1 listed chapel there, where is stands proudly inside the middle of a concrete office building. Also, there used to be The Shanghai Club in Liverpool, who held out to developers for years. After the developers knocked down the surrounding area it earned the nickname "The Little House on the Prairie".
'Batteries Not Included' comes to mind
Well THIS is random, but I am a follower of your fine channel and also an architectural photographer, and I was commissioned by a furniture company to shoot some office furniture in the new office in that very building just a few months ago!! What a small world. I have to say, they've done a really nice job inside, but yeah, the entrance is really odd and I wondered why it was that way. Now I know!!!
I’ve passed this building many times and wondered why that curious little Georgian looking building was in the middle of those two magnificent buildings and you’ve answered it for me thank you very much
Fun fact: this also happened with Macy's on 34th Street in New York. Macy's' owners bought up the whole block, one at a time, much like the Wickhams, but the owners of the building on the corner of 34th and Herald Square wouldn't sell, and Macy's was forced to build their building around the coveted corner lot. Over time, Macy's worked out a deal to put their billboards up over the upper levels of the corner building, but to this day, Macy's has never acquired it, and last I remember, that corner building was a Sunglass Hut. It doesn't just happen in London!
I don't know about anyone else, but if I were Wickham's I would have purposefully made a copy of Spiegelhalter on the other side of the tower and include it in the design. If you can't fight them, join them :P
Haha
And then turn that section into a jewelry department, so that people walk in thinking it's Spiegelhalter but they buy jewelry anyway.
Brilliant.
@@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721 ouch!
Next time you’re in Amsterdam and you exit your train (obviously ;) ) at the central station right across from there is the victoria plaza hotel. It has a similar house but to me it feels way more random and the individual architectures are nicer (in my taste at least). You could do a sequal!
It was a blessing in disguise. The fact that the main building is split by this little shop makes the building more noteworthy and memorable.
Thanks Tim for yet another breath of fresh air in these troubled times 🙂
Something similar happened a few years back in New Jersey. A bar called The Great Notch Inn was granted historic status when a developer was trying to build out the surrounding area. The plans and the highway expansion had to be changed to accommodate the bar.
Nearly 250k! Congrats!
Me at the job interview:
-What makes you the right fit for the job?
-"Oh, no idea particularly, I just wanted to see what this building looked like"
Thank you for posting. With ongoing and current world events, we need light relief like this.
???? What? There’s always been wars, famines, natural disasters, pandemics. Please don’t tell me your 5.
walked pass it millions of time, never realise there is this small shop in the middle. great small piece of story that lighten my Easter weekend!
Without "nail houses" we'd never have had "Batteries not included"
It wasn't unusual for late C19th early C20th developers to propose a grand design taking in several plots and completed as and when the leases expired. The former Abbey National building in Holborn was started in the early 1900's and not completed until the 1950's. The former Pru HQ further along Holborn similarly. There is also a building on Piccadilly built in the early 1900's subject to a covenant that it be completed when the lease on the last plot expired which happened in the 1980's, by which time the building on the plot had been listed! You might also have a look at Oxford Street where some of the 1960's buildings were designed to access a high level walkway (think Barbican) which of course never happened.
That is always a risk when dealing with older properties, once you declare an intention to demolish them that tends to make people suddenly take notice if the structures may qualify for protection.
In Chicago, there is a skyscraper with a corner cut out of it. The reason is that someone had an easement to take his sheep through the property. They couldn't buy the easement -- probably because they couldn't find the person who owned the easement. So to prevent legal problems, they left a place on the skyscraper just big enough for people to walk a flock of sheep through the property-- as long as they go single-file.
Honestly good for them! Don’t let corporations and large developers bully you out
this is great. Lived in the wider east end area for most of my 10 years in London, grew up in Penzance had no idea of the connection, and now my friend (also from PZ, known him since I was 5) works for QM and that's his office! Will have to tell him re: the connection with the jeweller
It’s funny how often situations like this actually occur!
"It's a good idea to talk to your neighbours." You missed a golden opportunity to squeeze in another soap theme there... (especially given the lyrics!) 😈
As a student in the 1990s, I have often walked past the front of this building, and wondered about the oddity!
We have a similar situation here in The Netherlands: the Victoria hotel in Amsterdam (1890) was built around two typically Amsterdam houses because the hotel owner didn’t want to pay the asking price of the houses. The huge neoclassical hotel now encapsulates the two houses, it’s a strange sight to behold!
2:19 Always loving the subtle choices of music "This is the East End afterall"
My wife's family is named SPIEGELHALDER . There is a Spiegelhalderweg in the Black Forest where many Spiegelhalders lived. The family spread out to Konstanz on the Bodensee and across the water to Lucerne. Two brothers came to America and started a company called SUNHILL SUCRO CHEMICALS. So sunny side of the Hill is the family interpretation of Spiegelhalder since the 17th century.
I love this sort of thing. It's always so fun to see the solutions people come up with.
In Amsterdam there is a same story during the construction in 1890 of the Victoria Hotel opposite of the central (train) station. The hotel is constructed around two buildings (Prins Hendrikkade 46,47) that were never obtained. There is now a movie about it. In Dutch "publieke werken" and in English "A Noble Intention" (2015). It you are in Amsterdam at the central trainstation it is hard to miss....
There's a nail pub in Vancouver, BC, Canada. An entire urban city block was developed into a condo building/headquarters for the local telecom behemoth, but the Kingston refused to sell out. Now it's a quaint little relic surrounded by the Telus Garden building (757 Richards St. Vancouver, BC if you want to see it). Nice pub with a great back garden, even if the new towers block the sun these days.
I love these stories! Houses in the middle of carparks, commercial docks are so fun
I can't believe nobody thought of turning that nail house into a Gap!
Never heard of your channel but I live opposite this building and had no idea about the history behind it, TH-cam algorithm has blessed me today with a bit of local knowledge ;)
That was entertaining as well as educational! Stubborn neighbours always create interesting stories, specially when the main characters reflect the traits of two determined nationalities!
2:18 - 😂😂😂😂 the “EastEnders” theme song in the background over the london map
The talking store and the subtle Monopoly reference shot this to the moon. Well done.
There’s a notable nail house in the middle of luxembourg’s old centre- an old boy that’s stated he’s too old to fuss with moving has resulted in an elaborate modern shopping centre that has an old and battered block of flats cutting through it’s western face. It’s something of a shame for the new project, but i also take some delight in it!
I live literally a few yards away from Spiegelhalter in Penzance and have had my watch repaired in there many a time. I never knew the story behind it and thought it was a strange coincidence this shop had the same name as the one I know, was very surprised to find out it is teh same shop!
Nice to see you wandering around Stepney - I walked past that place last week. Just around the corner from (in my opinion) London's best independent cinema :)
When Boeing built a new building in Seattle (across from Boeing Field) for the development of the 777, there was one hold out resident, so there was a private residence in the middle of the parking lot. Both buildings appear to be gone now.
In the village of Bilthoven in the Netherlands there is recently build a new grocery store (Jumbo) which has a complete garage from a competitor store (Plus) inside the warehouse because the owner of the "Plus" didn't want "Jumbo" to come to the village. But they build just arround it.
"Is this just a Chinese thing?"
It's the set-up to Pixar's Up.
And there are plenty of real-life examples in other cities across North America and Europe, where a single holdout house was built around by larger developments.
The main one I remember here in the Twin Cities was a house that Abbott-Northwestern Hospital built their "Wasie Building" wing around in the late 1970s/early 1980s. I'm not sure if the house's residents sold it in exchange for lifetime tenancy, or what. In any case, the hospital tore it down sometime in the late 90s, and the site is now a parklike area with paths and gardens and a small playground for children.
Ballard, WA, neighborhood in NW Seattle--has been attributed as THE inspiration for the movie "UP"--but could be true for all others, too!
I had been aware of the story of this department store many years ago. I am glad that it still exists as it is. Perhaps the history of the struggle between the two families is a reason why it wasn't knocked down in the 1980s when the entire site went derelict.
Wonder if they ever considered asking them if they could pay to extend Spiegelhalter's upwards so they could keep a matching roofline and have a connection between the two halves
One of the grandest buildings in London that ended up being a Tesco Express 😂
Good to see you back, Tim.
Why have i never noticed this random building in the middle! I walk pass all the time and the top floor is a now an events venue and banqueting Hall which is being refurbished! The left side is the Cleveland hall and the right is the Wickham. It has a grand art deco dome and original features so I'm glad they're taking care to restore it.
Glad you visited blighty, hope you had a good day with your mother. Great video as usual
Very weird to see this as this my office! I work for Queen Mary on the 3rd floor! Great to see more history about the places we frequent
Your pronounciation of "Otto Spiegelhalter" was close to perfect.
Great story amusingly told. Brilliant Tim.
How have I not noticed this? I must have cycled past a dozen times.
I live 2 minutes away! Makes me so happy to see my neighborhood here! Lots of love
There's one of those in Craigavon in northern Ireland, farmhouse right where the new dual carriageway was due to be built. The road had to split and go around the house. The house is gone now, but there's still a strange split in the road
Great British story about the underdog not giving in .
Well told too 👏👏
The circus music when explaining about how they messed up was the icing on the cake of this video hahaha.
There is a famous nail parcel (or inverted nail house, as there is nothing there) in Poznań, Poland. One guy refused to sell his parcel to the planned shopping centre and leased it to a chicken rotisserie. The mall was built anyway, but with a strange rectangular hole at one of its corners: pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupiec_Pozna%C5%84ski
That looks so funny! Posh-ish looking mall and right next to it shed with a sign "Kurczaki z rozna" and some cheep goods next to it.
@@MartinJahn It is even better, as on the other side of the road to the left the historic Old Town starts. :D
This is a wonderful story. Thanks for making this video. I will visit this soon.
Here in Spokane, Wa there was something similar but on much smaller scale. They built new building on both sides of old structure, don't know the details but finally years later they removed the old and finished the new.
Great Video Tim. I recently moved to the Area and there are so many great stories just on that small area. And then of course further down you still find two magnificent buildings of seafarers missions. Despite them no longer really close to water
That was a walk down memory lane - we used to regularly go to the Sweet Chilli next door in the 90s
Nice to see a new video from you, hope you had a lovely time!
*Allegedly*, until at least WW2, the rest of the Wickhams frontage (including a new frontispiece for the central tower) was still sitting in a quarry near Bath waiting for the Spiegelhalters to get bored and sell up. Certainly the central tower was in fact designed with the structural elements (and the big hydraulic accumulator for the lifts) central to the entire site so (with that replaced frontage) the whole thing could be made almost symmetric (but not completely - the windows would be very slightly narrower where Spiegelhalters had once been because otherwise there wouldn't have been space for the supporting wall on the east wing)
What a video man thank you! Liked and subbed!
Thanks Edward!