Thank you. 🙂 Im a relatively new to ham radio and I try to stay with monoband antennas most of the time to keep things simple. However in case I decided to buy a tuner some day, I now feel much better prepared to decide which direction to go (manual or automatic). Much appreciated. 👍 73 de DL1HNR
Hi Tracy....TNX for your videos. I too am a fan of manual tuners. The use of these on other than the ham bands is VERY useful as you mentioned. Thus it acts as a "Pre-Selector". The added benefit is it helps to increase selectivity.
🎉 This video and you are a blessing! ❤ What a lovely, straightforward and scientific video at the same time! Cheerz from a Hungarian 🇭🇺 SWL working in 🇬🇧
This is excellent. Thank you for posting this video! I'm an old Know-Code Extra, first licensed 41 years ago, and the only automation in my first station was the transmit/receive antenna relay: otherwise, I had to do everything else manually. (Kind of like driving a stick vs. an automatic--the operator has to know the rig's capabilities and traits in order to make it work the best.) Once I upgraded to a rig with the automatic tuner built in, I still kept the manual tuner in line just to help out as needed--I've discovered that they work well together and the internal adjusts to the external with no problem. Like you said, even though technology has made huge strides very quickly, amateur radio is still technical, and matching things up like this is part of it. There's just no beating a resonant antenna, but this is the real world, and the tuner is sometimes needed to bring things into harmony in a compromise situation. 73 DE KØVZ
Thanks for the great video. Just stepping up to General level and tryting to build my own NVIS for intra-State comms. This helps with my understanding of tuning, as well as the auto-vs-manual options. Great technical info, presented in a digestible manner.
Thanks Tracy, I'm new in HAM and yet to get my licence. I'm trying to absorb as much information as possible before I buy my first rig. I opted for the Yaesu FC10 since I figured it's gonna be a no fuzz tuner but upon seeing your vid, it got me thinking... Thanks for the enlightening insight. I appreciate it.
You should decide which HF rig you want before getting a tuner as some tuners work with a limited number of transceivers. Case in point, the Yaesu FC-10 was made for use with the Yaesu FT-840 HF transceiver. FC-10 Specifications: * Coverage: 1.8 to 30 MHz Amateur Bands * Power rating: 100W PEP * Memories: 31 total * Tuning time: 1 to 8 seconds, 4 seconds average * Antenna matching impedance: 16.5 to 150 Ohms (SWR less than 3) * Tuning power: 8 watts or more * Matching Time: Under 30 seconds * Power requirements: 13.5 volts DC @ 700 mA * Enclosure: 4.5 x 4 x 9.5 inches 4.5 Lbs (117x93x243mm 2 kg). The Yaesu FC-10 Tuner is designed for the FT-840. It operates in all nine HF amateur bands and features 31 frequency memories. The FC-10 provides a compact, easy-to-install unit that is styled to match the appearance of the FT-840 and will match a wide variety of antennas to within a 1.5:1 SWR on any amateur band frequency in typically less than 30 seconds. You can use the tuner switch on the transceiver for one-touch recall of tuner frequency memories that have already been stored. SWR matching occurs in under one second for memory recall. Transmitter power required for matching can be as little as 10 watts and matching settings are automatically stored in memory for instant recall when the same frequency range is reselected later. The back panel features SO-239 inputs and outputs plus a ground lug. The FC-10 comes with a 3 foot (1m) coaxial cable, 3 foot (1m) control cable and features a pull out flip stand if you wish to operate the tuner at an angle.
All great points, Tracy... Including the mention of Julian's channel. Been a long time subscriber to you and Julian. You guys are great assets to the technical aspects of ham radio. Well done. 73 ... Roger / NQ8RP
Enjoyed your video and it resonated with me....without a tuner at all! LOL Liked your train of thought and you raised some valid thoughts. I'm old fashioned have recently bought a lovely Kenwood AT230.
After many years I'm finally getting into the HF world and couldn't agree more with your comment about getting back to the basics of what ham radio is all about. My goal is to work QRP at every opportunity and use the most basic of antennas whenever possible. Guess I'll add a manual tuner to the list!
That Kenwood AT-120 antenna tuner is on a whole different level better than the LDG auto tuner. Kenwood also made a very similar AT-130 Which also covered 10MHz 18 MHz and 24 MHz
Thanks! I'm building out my portable setup now and this helped to make my decision on a tuner. Going to go the manual route. It should work well with my FT-891... it will be here Tomorrow!! 73
Thanks Tracy, for a very helpful video. I have been toying with the idea of getting an automatic tuner for my FT818, it has made me think again and stick with manual. 73 Roy - G0VFS
Tracy, I always enjoy your videos. I use an FT-897D as well. I bought it used and it came with the LDG autotuner. My antenna is an inexpensive vertical and I had trouble tuning it successfully. I switched to using a manual tuner and love it. Last weekend I talked from my QTH outside Vancouver to stations in Alaska, Hawaii, Japan, Finland and French Guiana on different bands. I give significant credit to the ability of my manual tuner to extend its reach beyond the 3:1 range of the autotuner. I have a manual tuner in my shack at home and I have a second one in my kit for when I go portable. I don't foresee going back to autotuners.
Some very valid comments and observations. I've been in the hobby since my teens and grew up peaking grids and dipping plates but for the new hams, the operation of a manual tuner is often somewhat of a mystery. Manual tuners are getting a reputation of blowing up to easily. This is because they are being switched while full power is applied instead of pre-tuning by listening to the receiver noise then only doing the final adjustments at QRP levels. Thanks for a great video.
A very interesting video Tracy. I first used manual tuners on Brit army transmitters some years ago. They were tuned for max indication on the meter i.e RF current pickup circuitry. So I used to connect up my home brew Ham VSWR meter in line just to check that I was getting the best output/match with a half decent earthing system. I used to get some funny looks until I started to educate my fellow op's in antenna theory. One of my best home brew tuners was a silver coated, 14 SWG copper wire coil, Pi match for a vertical half Rhombic on low band VHF. Worked a treat with QRP both from Germany up into Denmark and in Malaya across from East to West across the jungle using a man pack radio when the Brigade rebroadcast station broke down.
This is an oldie but goodie. I wasn't a ham when it aired. I have both types of matching units in my inventory. I find that the Elecraft ATUs are quite good at finding a proper match. They have a wide impedance matching range as well. Now I'm curious as to whether the LDG ATUs direct the transceiver to reduce power for matching. They are my preferred alternative for those radios that do not have good factory ATUs. Thanks for the video.
Hi, Tracy. I have a manual tuner, an automatic tuner and also two manual tuners, they're both very big. One is an MFJ loop tuner and another an MFJ-974. You mentioned that one of the advantages of manual tuners is being peak the antenna system to listen to non-ham bands. And that was the reason I acquired them, for I'm more of a listener. I hope to take my recently acquired FT-817ND outside to try and make some contacts. I'm not taking any tuner, instead, I'm going to use an AlexLoop that with a manual variable capacitor and also a device that turns on a led bulb every time you reach optimum tuning. Of course, I can do it just by listening and checking the s-meter o the receiving mode. 73 from PY5WHO.
Can you list any rigs that have a reputation for getting their finals blown? You listed 2 fairly new models, which surprised me, as I thought that HF rigs have had the SWR rollback feature since the late 1980s. I'm looking to add an old rig like an 857 or 706 for SOTA, which is why I'm curious, but a complete list would be helpful. Nice presentation and good info in this video, by the way.
Great question. Since most quality rigs started employing high SWR rollback, the incident of "troublesome" units has dropped significantly. The only one that comes to mind as a recent example is the FT-991 (not the 991A). Older models know for blown finals include the FT-817 and the Icom 706 and 746 series. I hasten to point out that I have owned all of those models over the years (exception of the 991) and none of them ever gave me an issue. I'm not aware of a comprehensive list.
As a new ham but being exposed at a younger age I liked the idea of working the equipment to get my signal as optimal as possible. I've come into this hobby in an age where everything is button presses. I'm going to design and build my own manual tuner...the last bit of this video pushed me over the edge to manual.
Hi Tracy. As a relatively new amateur I'm enjoying going through your videos. I've been watch Julian's channel for a year now and have built up his solar power supply using my own tweaks. Now that winter is over I plan on getting out portable and giving everything a test. de VA3NIE
Hi Tracy, I was curious about your video on manual versus automatic tuners while manual tuners give you more control, automatic antenna tuners will work as well as long as you turn the power down so you don't stress out your finals. Addressing your comment about the ft-817, I talked to Yaesu technical support today and they said that both the original ft 817 and the ft-817nd models have cut back circuits on them. Since the LDG Z-817 will work down to 0.1 watt turn the power down if you are concerned before doing a tuning cycle. Dave Black
Hi Dave, thank you for the information on the protection circuits on the 817 and 817ND. I didn't know about that. Regardless, take a look at the eHam reviews of the 817 and you will see plenty of people reporting failed finals while using the rig with automatic tuners. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
@goinghomesomeday1 Of course, no tuner can tune to zero. At best 1:1 That said, even a 1.5:1 match will not show a significant reduction in performance. Honestly, anything below the drop down of the radio (usually 2:1 or higher) you will see no difference. The antenna is still at the same SWR, it’s just that the radio doesn’t see it. And the short length of coax between a tuner in the shack and the radio isn’t going to reduce the power at a level measurable without high end lab equipment. The BEST performance, with a radio using coax, will be with an auto tuner mounted at or very near the antenna feedpoint. There you eliminate most of the losses in your coax from a high VSWR.
Hi Tracy! Thank you for going deeper into this issue. It helped me understand the question I asked you about (about using the auto-tuner on my 817ND) which you kindly posted a response to earlier in the month. Yet again another succinct and well-done video from my On-Line-Elmer! 😊 ...73 - K7GYB
I do like how your try to give the best information you know. In some cases automatic tuners can be an issue and especially for the FT-817. There I moved the elecraft tuner that allows you to manually adjust the tuner or let it decide. Today it’s much easier to get an automatic turner but I suggest one that has more buttons to allow manual adjustments.
Very helpful! I opted for a Dentron Jr. Monitor manual tuner for my setup. It would be great to hear about portable operation considerations based on your experience!
Good choice you made there with the Dentron! Check out some of my 2017 portable operations videos for more information on using tuners in a portable setting.
Thanks for this wonderful video. My wife Jan (VAEEAC) and me Marvin (VE3VCG) are newly licensed HAM's in Ontario Canada. We're still very much in the learning process when it comes to gear. Your video cleared up a good deal of information about automatic vs manual tunners. I can see the points you've made as being entirely valid up to a certain point. However I think the issue can be put to rest providing that the operator knows their gear well enough. We have a manual tunners at present and have learned a lot just from using if with various antennas. However once we're more experienced we should be able to know how each antenna tunes with a high degree of confidence. With that information in hand we should then know also if an automatic tunner will work properly with a multi-band antenna. I don't really think this is a matter of old school methods vs technology. It's all about knowing the gear.
I'm old school, but I prefer the speed with which my auto-tuner, which is at the antenna, finds solutions in nearly all cases. I did, however, spend some time stepping through the bands to figure out where it might choke; I also tune at relatively low power, just enough for the thing to work properly.
Thank you for the video. I have three automatic LDG tuners for my radios. One is for my FT-817 and is the Z817 that I have use very little. For QRP to me it is better to use resonant antennas to minimize losses. I can say when I have used my Z817 I turn the power down, I think you should always tune a the lowest power you can. You make a very good point on manual tuners, you can use them without transmitting. On that point I plan on getting one.
Special thanks to the author for taking the effort to speak loudly and clearly! Many TH-camrs today seem to pay little attention to the way they actually speak in the videos they make. 73 de YU1NKA
Thanks Tracy, great video. I've been preaching the merits of manual tuners since the processor-driven tuners came into widespread use about ten or so years ago, but the newbies on my facebook group don't seem to hear my words. Maybe if they hear the same words from you they'll listen. The points you've made are all valid. And in case you think I'm an "auto tuner hater", I regularly use the LDG AT-100ProII with my TS-140S, and the MFJ-939 with my FT-950. Both work very well, but they each have drawbacks too, some of which you've pointed out. Keep up the great work. 73 N5FPO
Tough question to answer. I stay away from a certain 3-letter company's products including their manual tuners. If you are willing to go with the used market, Yaesu and Kenwood both built great manual tuners 20= years ago. They were manufactured to a high standard and are good performers even today. I have a couple in my shack that I bought used. That would be my pick. 73 from VE3TWM.
The LDG 817 tuner drops the rig's power output while tuning. Thousands of hams have been using them with no widespread complaints. Sounds like a problem that might not exist.
Thank you for your comment, Mark. It is appreciated. I'd like to add a few points: - many, many FT-817 owners have had issues with the rigs' final transistors. A good number of FT-817 owners who have been bitten by the failing PA syndrome have reported using the rig with an automatic tuner. In these cases, the finger was pointed to the rig itself and not at the tuner (and as we all know, we need to take the entire system into consideration, not just the rig). - while the Z817 tuner does reduce RF output, that will only happen if the tuner is used with the matching CAT cable. If the rig is only connected to the tuner with coax, that level of protection does not exist. This is true of any brand or model of automatic external tuner. - I showed the LDG in my video as I own two of them and no other brands. Definitely not my intent to single out LDG. - reducing power and exposing the rig to very high SWR levels for an extended period will not eliminate the possibility of damage to the finals. In my estimation, the danger to the rig outweighs the convenience provided by the automatic tuner. It sounds like your experience has been different. I wish you continued success in your radio adventures. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM
My weapon of choice is the Sotabeams Linked Dipole for my portable needs (40, 30, & 20m) but have found my auto tuner to be great for my OFCD while portable (goes into a 4:1 balun). As you said, fine as long as the SWR is no higher than 3:1. My OFCD and auto tuner is very convenient, however - as there's no collapsing the pole to connect/disconnect links to lengthen/shorten the antenna for what band I need. Very useful video with great advice.
I am not a licensed operator but I have used CB's and 10 meter export radio's, and amplifiers, and manual and automatic antenna tuners for years as a professionl driver in the U.S. It has been my experience that auto tuners generally look for a 1:5 SWR. with some having the option to seek lower than 1:5 such as 1:0. However are not always able to achieve that goal. But I have never had that issue in operating manual tuners even in my mobile radios. Manual tuners I have always managed to get a flat SWR that does not even swing a cross needle on a combination ham style SWR Watt Meter when properly grounded to your vehicle or outdooors with an appropriate 8 ft grounding rod and station setup. Regardless of the Manual Tuners amazing range and capabiity it is limited when your station itself is not properly grounded. I have used co-phased and center fed 11 meter dipoles for years in mobile and base operations with amazing results. I have also learned that 1:1 baluns installed at the antenna feedpoint which must be a minimum of 1/2 wavelength above ground for that specific band, then installed every half wave length in 11 meters of coax that's every 18 feet of coax in length on 11 meters, keeps the coax from acting as a tri-pole on the dipole. And from allowing your signal from the dipole to run back down your coax sheild. Or the Coax itself from acting as a recieve antenna. So on the first 18 feet of coax which is vertical I use a 1:1 balun at the antenna feedpoint, 18 ft of coax then runs down the mast with a 1:1 balun and a lightning arrestor together at the base of the mast that is grounded to an 8 ft grounding rod with a 10 gauge solid copper wire, then the other 18 ft of coax that connects to the balun and lightening arrestor that enters my shack I place another 1:1 balun there also that is attached to my radio. For a total of 3 seperate 1:1 balns installed with a lightning arrestor to proper ground. I was told this would improve unwanted noise levels but, that is not so. It's just as I stated keeps my coax from acting as a tri-pole antenna instead of a dipole antenna. Meaning the power emits from the antenna not your coax and keeps your coax itself from acting as an antenna. and also gives high levels of RF typical with amplifiers and antenna tuners a good solid ground for the RF to go that cannot be transmitted by the antenna or dissipated as heat by the tuner. What reduces unwanted noise levels in your rig is using a proprly tuned antenna for the specific band your using such as my rig which is 11 meters. And by coiling every connection of ac or dc power wires and coax jumper's attached directly to my rig inside my shack, meaning all power supplies ac wires, meters, amplifiers, coax jumpers, coax, and antenna tuners, etc......Remember that any wire hooked anywhere to your rig unless coiled ( "will act as a recieve antenna", ) and by coiling all these connections as close to your equipment as possible prevents them from acting as multiple "recieve antenna's". Many people also use magnetic torroids together in their coils that aids even further, or by instaling noise supressors in their dc power cables but, coiling the wire performs the same task also and is better than no coiling at all. I get awesome reports of my station being super clear because I take care in how I install the system. And I use high quality variable switching power supplies so there is no need for any dc noise supressors or for my ac power lines. With all wire / coax connections and lengths of straighht runs in my rig kept to an absolute bare minimum to connect the equipment all together. Added bonus with the cost of antenna anayzers coming down in price to just a $100 dollars these analyzers hooked to your manual antenna tuner will tune your antenna and antenna tuner without even transmitting a signal. Or the need to use your expensive radio your until ready to safely transmit on air. Also they are now selling portabe all mode transcievers 160- 10 meters for as low as $159.00. So I am thinking about getting both just to listen in on the airwaves. I already have CB, Commercial and Military Aviation, Marine, and VHF/UHF transcievers so I might as well complete all the bands. Even though I am not licensed to use them.
Thanks for the tip on tuners. Off hand do you know if the IC-7300 has finals protection. Looking at the automatic tuner for now but want to explore the manual ones later when I become more comfortable with knobs and dials??? I get what you are saying. I need more experience. I subbed to Julian's channel. I have been subbed to yours since the Ailunce HD1 video. You explain your case very well!
Thank you for your comment! I don't know if the 7300 has the protection, but I would presume it does. FYI, you can learn to use a manual tuner in just a few minutes.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir Thanks for replying. I should have asked you if there is a manual tune brand or model that is currently sold new out there that would work good with the IC-7300. "Works with my radio" is kind of a stupid question as I am sure you just want to get a tuner that works with the frequencies and power your radio puts out. I am kinda leaning towards manual as I do like to snoop around on those off band frequencies on occasion.
@@1crazynordlander At the risk of being controversial, I avoid like a plague manual tuners made by a certain three letter acronym manufacturer. I have two manual tuners, one Yaesu and one Kenwood. Sadly, those manufacturers don't make them any more. Those products were made to a significantly higher standard and it's worth waiting for one to appear on the used market. I love my Kenwood AT-120 and am looking for a second. For base station use, my Kenwood AT-180 is a champ.
definitely agree with the reception and the technical nature of learning how tuning actually works... as for the presenting bad swr to the radio, there are quite a few good designs that don't do that... take the icom AT-140/ah-4 ... it presents a 50 ohm resister to the radio during so the radio always sees basically 1:1 during the tuning process, and it taps off a very small amount of RF to actually put on the line (I believe it is well under 0.1 W radiated while rig is driving 10 W into the tuner). I would say the biggest ADVANTAGE of an automatic tuner is one that is placed AT the antenna. Manual tuners and automatic tuners inside the shack are tuning the antenna AND feedline... and that usually makes the feedline part of the antenna (introducing losses and potential for RFI / noise). An automatic tuner AT the antenna keeps the signal in the coax 50 ohm to the tuner, then matches it at the point that it no longer matters (the antenna). Very much like the guys that use the high-voltage variable caps at base feed of 160 meter and some 80 meter antennas (ie loading a tower)... but yeah, there are days I fight with my ah-4 ... where I know a solution exists, but because of the current solution being weird, it can't find the correct one... sometimes have to change to certain bands to get the tuner to tune a solution that is closer to the desired solution then move back to the desired band before it will figure out.
Apologies for being late to the party with this video. Really enjoyed it as explained well the pros & cons of both types of tuners. Thank you. 73 de 2E0IEH
I have several Auto Tuners, including the Z-11 and a Elecraft T1. For Hiking and Camping, I normally take my MFJ-9201. I would recommend this tuner to anyone operating from the forest ! Thanks for you videos, Best 72 es 73 Lee, WA8QFE (BushRadio on BCUSA site)
Hi Tracy I have an Automatic LDG for my 817 and use an MFJ 949 Manual tuner for the FT897 etc.Excellent being 76 have used many tuners in my time and tuned many older radios as well so know what you are on about exactly but excellent as always my 73 Trig
The Icom IC-7000's power drops as SWR increases above 2:1. This note can be found on page 15 of the owner's manual. The problem with the IC-7000 is that there is a design flaw. If I recall correctly the original design allowed too much current to flow to or through the finals and would eventually burn them up. I had to send mine in because TX power dropped to about 50% 30 minutes after Field Day started, and Icom replaced the finals and installed a resistor nearby. I saw this procedure in another TH-cam video by a non-Icom tech, and he explained that the later designs had this resistor installed. If you use the Icom AH-4 automatic antenna tuner, not only will it drop the output power to 5 watts during tuning, but it will auto tune when needed without the operator having to press Tune, although the Tune button can be used at any time. I think that the manual tuners can be a great learning tool, but the operator would have to remember to drop power output every time tuning is performed unless the tuning was done while receiving only. Auto tuners typically can't be used for higher power whereas some manual tuners can handle 1500 watts.
i have that IC 7200 radio and Japanese tuner Comet but, my antenna is doublet mfj 1777, please advise me how about choke current balun to protect over load of RFI backward ? thank you and hope stay healthy with us, Sir
Thanks for the video to which I'd like to add a word about the different kind of tuners available on the market. What is described in the video goes mostly about T-matching circuits and other matching type like Pi, Double-T, L-match...exist. These all serve the same purpose, though they don't have the same specifications or field of use. By this I'd like to tackle the antenna feed impedance for symetric vs. asymetric, centre-fed vs. end-fed, lw.... all require a specific type of matching unit and impedance tuning range. So I'd like to advise all to check which is the most suitable tuner for each antenna configuration. A good source of information is the MFJ webpage (this is not meant to be an ad), go through the specs hand have a look at the schematics. See you on the air and 73's, Patrick - ON4KNP
Hello Terry it's been a long time but I got my ft818 an my Rock pal solar generator in the loop antenna I'm ready to rock and roll I'm going to do some TH-cam videos thank you for sharing everything you
No video on that (yet!)...but here is how to do it put briefly. - Once the antenna and rig are connected and you are tuned into the frequency you want to use, on the tuner switch to the band you are operating on. - Then put both rotary controls at the 12 o'clock position. Starting with the first knob, rotate the control slowly until the background noise on the rig rises to a maximum level. - Once done, repeat this process with the second knob. - You can then safely key the rig, then rotate the left knob for minimum reflected power. - Unkey the mic. Key again, then repeat with the second knob. - Keep transmissions short during this process. Either the tuner will bring the antenna system down to an acceptable SWR, or there is a large problem with the antenna or the tuner. Hope this helps!
Hello! I really did not know that the manual tuner had so many advantages. In my base station I do not use tuner because I use one of those antennas similar to Comet CHA-250, the tuning in this type of antenna is instantaneous and automatic, but in portable operations I use an LDG Z-817. It is very fast, but it's true that you expose the radio to a high SWR for a few long seconds. Great video! 73 PY1XR
Thanks again, Tracy! I've found this video so informative that this is the third time I've watched it. :-) I'm about to buy a manual tuner, but I'm having trouble deciding which to buy! I'd like it to be fully featured, and I love the idea of a decently sized, easily readable meter, but I'd also like it to be one that I can take out in the field, as I prefer portable communications to sitting behind a desk (too much like work!). So I'd truly appreciate any recommendations you might have. Thanks again and 73!
This is tricky as I don't want to offend anyone. Oh well, here goes. I avoid accessories made by a certain 3-letter manufacturer that starts with "M" due to production quality concerns. Look for a good used Yaesu or Kenwood manual tuner. You might have to wait for a while, but they were built to last for years.
Hi tracie Can you advise me setting up a yaesu frg 8800 receiver with a long wire. I've got a auto atu and separate swr. All this was given to me. Could u put a vid together to show how a receiver set up should be put together please. Thanks Mike. Wales. UK..
Hi Mike! An ATU is designed for use with a transmitter. You can't use one with a receiver as the ATU uses the transmit power to tune. Find yourself a good manual tuner and start enjoying that receiver. Then consider studying to get your ham license 👍
You can lower the power to transmit while auto-tuning to prevent hurting the finals. The same argument could be made when manually tuning, you’re spending more time tuning with making micro adjustments which would hurt the finals more… unless you have a NanoVNA or an antenna analyzer to adjust the manual tuner before using on the radio.
Tracy, one additional plus for manual tuners over automatic turners is "batteries not required" for the manual turner. If you are on an extended portable excursion then every device that requires electricity for operation determines the capacity of the battery you will be required to carry. I know from experience that the LDG 817 automatic turner batteries will last about one year but it I go portable, even for a short stay, I take my manual turner rather than my automatic turner. All other points in this video I agree with you. Best 73 Terry KB8AMZ
Good video. Been a General for a while now, but really haven't had much space to get out there. However, I tried a few times on 20M with a FT817ND on a YoYo-Vee, but had no success on transmit. I later bought an MFJ-1786 loop, still can't seem to get a signal out. I guess I'm asking how can you know (without taking it somewhere first) if the finals are blown?
Thank you for your comment, I truly appreciate it. Get yourself (or borrow) a good external RF power meter and either a dummy load or a properly working antenna. Then you'll know for sure. Good luck!
Great video... I'm a new Ham as of a few months ago and as of yet, have not acquired my first rig. Do you have any recommendations. I'm interested in taking my rig hiking and operating on low power.
Hi Michael, I'm totally biased but my pick amongst many fine QRP rigs is the Yaesu FT-817. You'll need to determine what features are important to you, then base your decision on that list. For example, if you are 100% CW, then the 817 may not be the best choice. For me, the 817 checks all the boxes.
Some might say that QRP isn't the best type of operation for beginners, unless he/she has a GOOD expectation of the challenges involved. If you're very patient and don't "need" to make any contacts right away, then go for it. Going QRP out-of-the-gate is akin to getting a motor vehicle operators license--and then riding a bicycle everywhere you go. Options will be quite limited. Best of luck.
Tracy, this was really helpful to me, a relatively new ham who is interested in getting into outdoor HF. I learned a lot and will explore moving to a manual tuner. One question - if the transceiver has an internal tuner, I presume I can still tell it to not tune the antenna and then do that with a manual tuner that I have connected. Is that so? This Canadian ham says that’s a great sweatshirt!! VA7SGY
Hi Bruce, thank you for leaving a comment. While I don't know about every transceiver that has a built-in tuner, most very definitely give you the option to turn off the tuner when not desired. PS The sweatshirt is one of my favourite things to wear in the winter, it's as warm and comfy as it is great looking :) Check out Douglas + Son's website (no affiliation). 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.1
I have the LDG Z-100Plus ATU. It can tune with as little power as under 1 watt so tend to do that on bands where my ATU can't set a match without a lot of time (vs the under 1 second time it takes to pull up a memory of a frequency or close by the frequency I use a lot) or when I'm trying to tune something I just know it is going to send a lot of RF back down the coax! I will say that the Z11pro or the AT-100 or the AT-200 from LDG offer fine-tuning the tuners "best finding" and the 200watt or even 600watt version in the future is definitely something I'd consider but for now, the Z-100Plus is great because it needs minuscule amounts of power which is great for QRP on the usage but also perfect for a "barefoot" Transceiver like my ICOM IC-718 which is 100watts and interfaces with the Z-100 for both power and tuning via the radios tuner button and some other features.
As a newbie, my Icon IC-7300 has a SWR meter and a tuner. I got a manual tuner using the same logic that I should learn to drive a manual car to learn to drive, likewise I should practice on a manual tuner. In my CB days when I didn’t know anything I used to think using an antenna tuner was a form of cheating. CB-ers had to know about SWR and adjusting antennas, but hams just turned a knob.
Find a good used manual tuner (preferably not one with three letters as a brand name). I really like the Kenwood and Yaesu ones, but I've also heard good things about Dentron.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir okay I appreciate your help I 'm a old c b er .trying to become a ham operator even though some people aren't very helpful but I will over come that thanks again ki5esh Darrell
Please don't walk away from the hobby due to some intolerant people. There are plenty of friendly, helpful ones out there. Join a local club to meet some :).
Thank you for your informative video. I am new to the Amateur Radio scene. KG7WEN. I am trying to understand the need for Antenna tuners. I have a MFJ-874 and trying to understand that unit. Am I correct that the MFJ-874 is only a SWR meter and not a Antenna tuner? I also have the ICOM IC-718 Radio and I see a button on the front panel that says "Tuner" is that a built in Antenna tuner? Thank you again for sharing your video.
Congratulations on getting your ticket and joining this great hobby! We are happy to have you join our ranks. You are correct. The MFJ-874 is just a meter, not a tuner. The Tuner button on the 718 is designed to control an external automatic tuner. There is no internal tuner in the 718. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
I'm considering buying one for my Mobil CB. I have OCD about SWR and I'm constantly checking it and it drives me nuts when it's uneven. If I could shorten or lengthen the antenna by tuning a knob to make it perfect I would be happy 😂.
Thank you for your question. My favourite, though a bit heavy, is the Kenwood AT-120 that I've shown in the video. I don't think you can buy a new manual tuner that is as well built as this one. AT-120's (and the nearly identical AT-130) are not too hard to find on the used market.
Final transistors, the big (and often expensive to replace) transistors in the RF amplifier stage of the transmitter. Many radios are not able to withstand high SWR for more than a very short period and exposing those rigs to high SWR can permanently damage (blow) the "finals".
Some of my apartment antennas require the manual tuner, mfj 969 and some the auto tuner built into the rig yaesu ft 900. But never both at the same time.
From what I understand about my transceiver, I believe that it has protection circuitry. It's a Yaesu FT-891, it seems to fair well when I am tuning with my manual tuner. Though my manual tuner can't get the SWR under 2:1, I hope my ATU can do better.
Thank you. 🙂 Im a relatively new to ham radio and I try to stay with monoband antennas most of the time to keep things simple. However in case I decided to buy a tuner some day, I now feel much better prepared to decide which direction to go (manual or automatic). Much appreciated. 👍 73 de DL1HNR
Thank you very much for the Supertip! Welcome to the hobby, we're glad to have you aboard. 73 from VE3TWM!
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir Thank you for the friendly welcome. Very nice. 🙂
Hi Tracy....TNX for your videos. I too am a fan of manual tuners. The use of these on other than the ham bands is VERY useful as you mentioned. Thus it acts as a "Pre-Selector". The added benefit is it helps to increase selectivity.
🎉 This video and you are a blessing! ❤
What a lovely, straightforward and scientific video at the same time!
Cheerz from a Hungarian 🇭🇺 SWL working in 🇬🇧
Thank you! 73 from Canada 🇨🇦
This is excellent. Thank you for posting this video! I'm an old Know-Code Extra, first licensed 41 years ago, and the only automation in my first station was the transmit/receive antenna relay: otherwise, I had to do everything else manually. (Kind of like driving a stick vs. an automatic--the operator has to know the rig's capabilities and traits in order to make it work the best.)
Once I upgraded to a rig with the automatic tuner built in, I still kept the manual tuner in line just to help out as needed--I've discovered that they work well together and the internal adjusts to the external with no problem. Like you said, even though technology has made huge strides very quickly, amateur radio is still technical, and matching things up like this is part of it. There's just no beating a resonant antenna, but this is the real world, and the tuner is sometimes needed to bring things into harmony in a compromise situation.
73 DE KØVZ
Interesting use case, thank you for sharing your experience! I like your stick vs. automatic analogy.
And that final comment was what I needed to convince myself that got into HAM to learn - also the old school ways
Hi Tracy, thanks for helping me understand the functions of auto/manual tuners
Thanks for the great video. Just stepping up to General level and tryting to build my own NVIS for intra-State comms. This helps with my understanding of tuning, as well as the auto-vs-manual options. Great technical info, presented in a digestible manner.
Thank you, Tom! Good luck with your NVIS antenna, sounds like an interesting project.
I think you have "The Voice". You have a great documentary voice.
Thank you, sir.
He does have an excellent voice ! You should check out Julian !!! Either could do wildlife documentaries !!!
My older Kenwood AT-130 is my trusty manual tuner. This is a great video! Thanks!
Nice tuner you have there, Jim! Thank you for watching and leaving a comment.
Great video Tracy. I am a new ham in Guelph and enjoy all your videos. I have learned a great deal Thanks VE3WDF keep them coming
Thank you Larry! Always nice to hear from a fellow Ontario ham.
Great video with excellent information.
Thanks Tracy... Great video! It reinforces forces my under standing of antenna turners. Well done. Fred.. KE0EF.
Thank you, Fred!
Thanks Tracy, I'm new in HAM and yet to get my licence. I'm trying to absorb as much information as possible before I buy my first rig. I opted for the Yaesu FC10 since I figured it's gonna be a no fuzz tuner but upon seeing your vid, it got me thinking... Thanks for the enlightening insight. I appreciate it.
Good luck with getting your license 👍 Looking forward to working you one day.
You should decide which HF rig you want before getting a tuner as some tuners work with a limited number of transceivers.
Case in point, the Yaesu FC-10 was made for use with the Yaesu FT-840 HF transceiver.
FC-10 Specifications:
* Coverage: 1.8 to 30 MHz Amateur Bands
* Power rating: 100W PEP
* Memories: 31 total
* Tuning time: 1 to 8 seconds, 4 seconds average
* Antenna matching impedance: 16.5 to 150 Ohms (SWR less than 3)
* Tuning power: 8 watts or more
* Matching Time: Under 30 seconds
* Power requirements: 13.5 volts DC @ 700 mA
* Enclosure: 4.5 x 4 x 9.5 inches 4.5 Lbs (117x93x243mm 2 kg).
The Yaesu FC-10 Tuner is designed for the FT-840. It operates in all nine HF amateur bands and features 31 frequency memories. The FC-10 provides a compact, easy-to-install unit that is styled to match the appearance of the FT-840 and will match a wide variety of antennas to within a 1.5:1 SWR on any amateur band frequency in typically less than 30 seconds. You can use the tuner switch on the transceiver for one-touch recall of tuner frequency memories that have already been stored. SWR matching occurs in under one second for memory recall. Transmitter power required for matching can be as little as 10 watts and matching settings are automatically stored in memory for instant recall when the same frequency range is reselected later.
The back panel features SO-239 inputs and outputs plus a ground lug. The FC-10 comes with a 3 foot (1m) coaxial cable, 3 foot (1m) control cable and features a pull out flip stand if you wish to operate the tuner at an angle.
All great points, Tracy... Including the mention of Julian's channel. Been a long time subscriber to you and Julian. You guys are great assets to the technical aspects of ham radio. Well done. 73 ... Roger / NQ8RP
Thank you, Roger. Much appreciated.
Marvelous insight and advice! Bravo!
Thank you!
Excellent video my friend! I've been using a 941E for years, and never dreamed of going automatic. All the best and 73's
Thank you very much and 73!
Enjoyed your video and it resonated with me....without a tuner at all! LOL Liked your train of thought and you raised some valid thoughts. I'm old fashioned have recently bought a lovely Kenwood AT230.
Thank you for your comment! Enjoy that fine tuner.
Excellent video, these are the reasons I paired my first HF rig with a small manual tuner.
Thank you!
After many years I'm finally getting into the HF world and couldn't agree more with your comment about getting back to the basics of what ham radio is all about. My goal is to work QRP at every opportunity and use the most basic of antennas whenever possible. Guess I'll add a manual tuner to the list!
That Kenwood AT-120 antenna tuner is on a whole different level better than the LDG auto tuner.
Kenwood also made a very similar AT-130 Which also covered 10MHz 18 MHz and 24 MHz
This vid has made me think again about my MFJ 939 tuner!👍☘️
👍
Great video as I am torn between my manual tuner and switching to an auto tuner. I will use both for now.. Also liked your hat tip to OH8STN !
Thank you!
Thanks! I'm building out my portable setup now and this helped to make my decision on a tuner. Going to go the manual route. It should work well with my FT-891... it will be here Tomorrow!!
73
Good luck and have fun! 73 from VE3TWM.
Thanks Tracy, for a very helpful video. I have been toying with the idea of getting an automatic tuner for my FT818, it has made me think again and stick with manual. 73 Roy - G0VFS
Thank you for your comment, Roy! 73 from VE3TWM.
Tracy, I always enjoy your videos. I use an FT-897D as well. I bought it used and it came with the LDG autotuner. My antenna is an inexpensive vertical and I had trouble tuning it successfully. I switched to using a manual tuner and love it. Last weekend I talked from my QTH outside Vancouver to stations in Alaska, Hawaii, Japan, Finland and French Guiana on different bands. I give significant credit to the ability of my manual tuner to extend its reach beyond the 3:1 range of the autotuner. I have a manual tuner in my shack at home and I have a second one in my kit for when I go portable. I don't foresee going back to autotuners.
Thank you for sharing your experience, Bruce! Those are some great portable contacts you racked up. 73 my friend.
I always enjoy watching your video. As a new ham radio operator I enjoy learning from them
Keep going! 73!
Thank you and welcome to this great hobby! 73 from VE3TWM.
Thanks Tracy for an outstanding video. I always learn something from every one and really do value your insight.
Thank you for watching and commenting, Dan!
Some very valid comments and observations. I've been in the hobby since my teens and grew up peaking grids and dipping plates but for the new hams, the operation of a manual tuner is often somewhat of a mystery. Manual tuners are getting a reputation of blowing up to easily. This is because they are being switched while full power is applied instead of pre-tuning by listening to the receiver noise then only doing the final adjustments at QRP levels. Thanks for a great video.
Thank you for your comment, I appreciate it!
A very interesting video Tracy. I first used manual tuners on Brit army transmitters some years ago. They were tuned for max indication on the meter i.e RF current pickup circuitry. So I used to connect up my home brew Ham VSWR meter in line just to check that I was getting the best output/match with a half decent earthing system. I used to get some funny looks until I started to educate my fellow op's in antenna theory. One of my best home brew tuners was a silver coated, 14 SWG copper wire coil, Pi match for a vertical half Rhombic on low band VHF. Worked a treat with QRP both from Germany up into Denmark and in Malaya across from East to West across the jungle using a man pack radio when the Brigade rebroadcast station broke down.
Thank you for sharing your amazing experiences, John.
This is an oldie but goodie. I wasn't a ham when it aired.
I have both types of matching units in my inventory. I find that the Elecraft ATUs are quite good at finding a proper match. They have a wide impedance matching range as well.
Now I'm curious as to whether the LDG ATUs direct the transceiver to reduce power for matching. They are my preferred alternative for those radios that do not have good factory ATUs.
Thanks for the video.
You certainly hit the nail on the head with this one. I gave up after replacing finals in my 817 three times . I was using an automatic tuner.
Sorry to hear of the troubles you had. Thank you for sharing your experience, it will hopefully save others from the same fate.
3 times? what were you doing wrong? what type antenna? was the radio modified?
Hi, Tracy. I have a manual tuner, an automatic tuner and also two manual tuners, they're both very big. One is an MFJ loop tuner and another an MFJ-974. You mentioned that one of the advantages of manual tuners is being peak the antenna system to listen to non-ham bands. And that was the reason I acquired them, for I'm more of a listener. I hope to take my recently acquired FT-817ND outside to try and make some contacts. I'm not taking any tuner, instead, I'm going to use an AlexLoop that with a manual variable capacitor and also a device that turns on a led bulb every time you reach optimum tuning. Of course, I can do it just by listening and checking the s-meter o the receiving mode. 73 from PY5WHO.
That's an interesting setup you have. Thank you for sharing your experience! 73 from VE3TWM.
thank you hit the it very good, thanks so much, you helped a lot new hams...
Thank you, Warren!
Can you list any rigs that have a reputation for getting their finals blown? You listed 2 fairly new models, which surprised me, as I thought that HF rigs have had the SWR rollback feature since the late 1980s. I'm looking to add an old rig like an 857 or 706 for SOTA, which is why I'm curious, but a complete list would be helpful. Nice presentation and good info in this video, by the way.
Great question. Since most quality rigs started employing high SWR rollback, the incident of "troublesome" units has dropped significantly. The only one that comes to mind as a recent example is the FT-991 (not the 991A). Older models know for blown finals include the FT-817 and the Icom 706 and 746 series. I hasten to point out that I have owned all of those models over the years (exception of the 991) and none of them ever gave me an issue.
I'm not aware of a comprehensive list.
As a new ham but being exposed at a younger age I liked the idea of working the equipment to get my signal as optimal as possible. I've come into this hobby in an age where everything is button presses. I'm going to design and build my own manual tuner...the last bit of this video pushed me over the edge to manual.
Thank you for your comment. You are showing the true spirit of ham radio!
I really needed to know what you know about antenna tuners.
Hi Tracy. As a relatively new amateur I'm enjoying going through your videos. I've been watch Julian's channel for a year now and have built up his solar power supply using my own tweaks. Now that winter is over I plan on getting out portable and giving everything a test. de VA3NIE
Make it happen, David! Julian is a good man. You are going to have a blast with HF portable. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
Great overview. Thank you!
thank you for your comment, Paul!
Hi Tracy, I was curious about your video on manual versus automatic tuners while manual tuners give you more control, automatic antenna tuners will work as well as long as you turn the power down so you don't stress out your finals. Addressing your comment about the ft-817, I talked to Yaesu technical support today and they said that both the original ft 817 and the ft-817nd models have cut back circuits on them. Since the LDG Z-817 will work down to 0.1 watt turn the power down if you are concerned before doing a tuning cycle.
Dave Black
Hi Dave, thank you for the information on the protection circuits on the 817 and 817ND. I didn't know about that. Regardless, take a look at the eHam reviews of the 817 and you will see plenty of people reporting failed finals while using the rig with automatic tuners.
73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
@goinghomesomeday1
Of course, no tuner can tune to zero.
At best 1:1
That said, even a 1.5:1 match will not show a significant reduction in performance.
Honestly, anything below the drop down of the radio (usually 2:1 or higher) you will see no difference. The antenna is still at the same SWR, it’s just that the radio doesn’t see it. And the short length of coax between a tuner in the shack and the radio isn’t going to reduce the power at a level measurable without high end lab equipment.
The BEST performance, with a radio using coax, will be with an auto tuner mounted at or very near the antenna feedpoint.
There you eliminate most of the losses in your coax from a high VSWR.
Thanks for the info. I use a MFJ-1899T QRP antenna. I can tune the antenna by rising or lowering it. But I'll be looking for a new manual tuner.
Thank you for telling me a bit about your experience, David.
Fantastic video!! Thanks for sharing with us!
Thank you, and you're welcome!
Hi Tracy! Thank you for going deeper into this issue. It helped me understand the question I asked you about (about using the auto-tuner on my 817ND) which you kindly posted a response to earlier in the month. Yet again another succinct and well-done video from my On-Line-Elmer! 😊 ...73 - K7GYB
Thank you for watching and for your comment, David! 73 from VE3TWM.
Demo video would be great in this subject!
I do like how your try to give the best information you know. In some cases automatic tuners can be an issue and especially for the FT-817. There I moved the elecraft tuner that allows you to manually adjust the tuner or let it decide. Today it’s much easier to get an automatic turner but I suggest one that has more buttons to allow manual adjustments.
Thank you for sharing your experience!
Very helpful! I opted for a Dentron Jr. Monitor manual tuner for my setup. It would be great to hear about portable operation considerations based on your experience!
Good choice you made there with the Dentron! Check out some of my 2017 portable operations videos for more information on using tuners in a portable setting.
Thanks for this wonderful video. My wife Jan (VAEEAC) and me Marvin (VE3VCG) are newly licensed HAM's in Ontario Canada. We're still very much in the learning process when it comes to gear. Your video cleared up a good deal of information about automatic vs manual tunners. I can see the points you've made as being entirely valid up to a certain point. However I think the issue can be put to rest providing that the operator knows their gear well enough. We have a manual tunners at present and have learned a lot just from using if with various antennas. However once we're more experienced we should be able to know how each antenna tunes with a high degree of confidence. With that information in hand we should then know also if an automatic tunner will work properly with a multi-band antenna. I don't really think this is a matter of old school methods vs technology. It's all about knowing the gear.
I absolutely agree with you, Marvin. Thank you for leaving your comment.
I'm old school, but I prefer the speed with which my auto-tuner, which is at the antenna, finds solutions in nearly all cases. I did, however, spend some time stepping through the bands to figure out where it might choke; I also tune at relatively low power, just enough for the thing to work properly.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Thank you for the video. I have three automatic LDG tuners for my radios. One is for my FT-817 and is the Z817 that I have use very little. For QRP to me it is better to use resonant antennas to minimize losses. I can say when I have used my Z817 I turn the power down, I think you should always tune a the lowest power you can. You make a very good point on manual tuners, you can use them without transmitting. On that point I plan on getting one.
Thank you for sharing your experience!
Oh! Your videos are very well done as well.
Thank you!
Special thanks to the author for taking the effort to speak loudly and clearly! Many TH-camrs today seem to pay little attention to the way they actually speak in the videos they make. 73 de YU1NKA
Thank you for your comment, you're welcome! 73 from VE3TWM.
Thank You. I'm new and trying to figure out what things are necessary and what isn't.
You're welcome!
Fantastic voice
Thank you, Mark!
Thanks Tracy, great video. I've been preaching the merits of manual tuners since the processor-driven tuners came into widespread use about ten or so years ago, but the newbies on my facebook group don't seem to hear my words. Maybe if they hear the same words from you they'll listen. The points you've made are all valid. And in case you think I'm an "auto tuner hater", I regularly use the LDG AT-100ProII with my TS-140S, and the MFJ-939 with my FT-950. Both work very well, but they each have drawbacks too, some of which you've pointed out. Keep up the great work. 73 N5FPO
Hi Mike, thank you for your sharing your experience, I appreciate it. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
Thank you. I was debating whether to get a manual or automatic tuner. Manual will be best for me now. N0QFT
Very interesting !!!. In your opinion, what are the best manual tuners in the market today? 73
Tough question to answer. I stay away from a certain 3-letter company's products including their manual tuners. If you are willing to go with the used market, Yaesu and Kenwood both built great manual tuners 20= years ago. They were manufactured to a high standard and are good performers even today. I have a couple in my shack that I bought used. That would be my pick. 73 from VE3TWM.
Nice explanation
Thank you!
The LDG 817 tuner drops the rig's power output while tuning. Thousands of hams have been using them with no widespread complaints. Sounds like a problem that might not exist.
Thank you for your comment, Mark. It is appreciated.
I'd like to add a few points:
- many, many FT-817 owners have had issues with the rigs' final transistors. A good number of FT-817 owners who have been bitten by the failing PA syndrome have reported using the rig with an automatic tuner. In these cases, the finger was pointed to the rig itself and not at the tuner (and as we all know, we need to take the entire system into consideration, not just the rig).
- while the Z817 tuner does reduce RF output, that will only happen if the tuner is used with the matching CAT cable. If the rig is only connected to the tuner with coax, that level of protection does not exist. This is true of any brand or model of automatic external tuner.
- I showed the LDG in my video as I own two of them and no other brands. Definitely not my intent to single out LDG.
- reducing power and exposing the rig to very high SWR levels for an extended period will not eliminate the possibility of damage to the finals.
In my estimation, the danger to the rig outweighs the convenience provided by the automatic tuner. It sounds like your experience has been different. I wish you continued success in your radio adventures.
73 from Tracy VE3TWM
My weapon of choice is the Sotabeams Linked Dipole for my portable needs (40, 30, & 20m) but have found my auto tuner to be great for my OFCD while portable (goes into a 4:1 balun). As you said, fine as long as the SWR is no higher than 3:1. My OFCD and auto tuner is very convenient, however - as there's no collapsing the pole to connect/disconnect links to lengthen/shorten the antenna for what band I need.
Very useful video with great advice.
Thank you for leaving a comment, Mark! Any others reading this should go check out Mark's channel, he's done some very interesting stuff.
I learned from this thank you
Thank you for your comment! You're welcome 😀
I 👍 thank you great knowledge
I am not a licensed operator but I have used CB's and 10 meter export radio's, and amplifiers, and manual and automatic antenna tuners for years as a professionl driver in the U.S. It has been my experience that auto tuners generally look for a 1:5 SWR. with some having the option to seek lower than 1:5 such as 1:0. However are not always able to achieve that goal. But I have never had that issue in operating manual tuners even in my mobile radios. Manual tuners I have always managed to get a flat SWR that does not even swing a cross needle on a combination ham style SWR Watt Meter when properly grounded to your vehicle or outdooors with an appropriate 8 ft grounding rod and station setup. Regardless of the Manual Tuners amazing range and capabiity it is limited when your station itself is not properly grounded. I have used co-phased and center fed 11 meter dipoles for years in mobile and base operations with amazing results. I have also learned that 1:1 baluns installed at the antenna feedpoint which must be a minimum of 1/2 wavelength above ground for that specific band, then installed every half wave length in 11 meters of coax that's every 18 feet of coax in length on 11 meters, keeps the coax from acting as a tri-pole on the dipole. And from allowing your signal from the dipole to run back down your coax sheild. Or the Coax itself from acting as a recieve antenna. So on the first 18 feet of coax which is vertical I use a 1:1 balun at the antenna feedpoint, 18 ft of coax then runs down the mast with a 1:1 balun and a lightning arrestor together at the base of the mast that is grounded to an 8 ft grounding rod with a 10 gauge solid copper wire, then the other 18 ft of coax that connects to the balun and lightening arrestor that enters my shack I place another 1:1 balun there also that is attached to my radio. For a total of 3 seperate 1:1 balns installed with a lightning arrestor to proper ground. I was told this would improve unwanted noise levels but, that is not so. It's just as I stated keeps my coax from acting as a tri-pole antenna instead of a dipole antenna. Meaning the power emits from the antenna not your coax and keeps your coax itself from acting as an antenna. and also gives high levels of RF typical with amplifiers and antenna tuners a good solid ground for the RF to go that cannot be transmitted by the antenna or dissipated as heat by the tuner. What reduces unwanted noise levels in your rig is using a proprly tuned antenna for the specific band your using such as my rig which is 11 meters. And by coiling every connection of ac or dc power wires and coax jumper's attached directly to my rig inside my shack, meaning all power supplies ac wires, meters, amplifiers, coax jumpers, coax, and antenna tuners, etc......Remember that any wire hooked anywhere to your rig unless coiled ( "will act as a recieve antenna", ) and by coiling all these connections as close to your equipment as possible prevents them from acting as multiple "recieve antenna's". Many people also use magnetic torroids together in their coils that aids even further, or by instaling noise supressors in their dc power cables but, coiling the wire performs the same task also and is better than no coiling at all. I get awesome reports of my station being super clear because I take care in how I install the system. And I use high quality variable switching power supplies so there is no need for any dc noise supressors or for my ac power lines. With all wire / coax connections and lengths of straighht runs in my rig kept to an absolute bare minimum to connect the equipment all together. Added bonus with the cost of antenna anayzers coming down in price to just a $100 dollars these analyzers hooked to your manual antenna tuner will tune your antenna and antenna tuner without even transmitting a signal. Or the need to use your expensive radio your until ready to safely transmit on air. Also they are now selling portabe all mode transcievers 160- 10 meters for as low as $159.00. So I am thinking about getting both just to listen in on the airwaves. I already have CB, Commercial and Military Aviation, Marine, and VHF/UHF transcievers so I might as well complete all the bands. Even though I am not licensed to use them.
Thank you for your very thoughtful comment!
Thanks for the tip on tuners. Off hand do you know if the IC-7300 has finals protection. Looking at the automatic tuner for now but want to explore the manual ones later when I become more comfortable with knobs and dials??? I get what you are saying. I need more experience. I subbed to Julian's channel. I have been subbed to yours since the Ailunce HD1 video. You explain your case very well!
Thank you for your comment! I don't know if the 7300 has the protection, but I would presume it does. FYI, you can learn to use a manual tuner in just a few minutes.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir Thanks for replying. I should have asked you if there is a manual tune brand or model that is currently sold new out there that would work good with the IC-7300. "Works with my radio" is kind of a stupid question as I am sure you just want to get a tuner that works with the frequencies and power your radio puts out. I am kinda leaning towards manual as I do like to snoop around on those off band frequencies on occasion.
@@1crazynordlander At the risk of being controversial, I avoid like a plague manual tuners made by a certain three letter acronym manufacturer. I have two manual tuners, one Yaesu and one Kenwood. Sadly, those manufacturers don't make them any more. Those products were made to a significantly higher standard and it's worth waiting for one to appear on the used market. I love my Kenwood AT-120 and am looking for a second. For base station use, my Kenwood AT-180 is a champ.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir Thanks!
definitely agree with the reception and the technical nature of learning how tuning actually works... as for the presenting bad swr to the radio, there are quite a few good designs that don't do that... take the icom AT-140/ah-4 ... it presents a 50 ohm resister to the radio during so the radio always sees basically 1:1 during the tuning process, and it taps off a very small amount of RF to actually put on the line (I believe it is well under 0.1 W radiated while rig is driving 10 W into the tuner). I would say the biggest ADVANTAGE of an automatic tuner is one that is placed AT the antenna. Manual tuners and automatic tuners inside the shack are tuning the antenna AND feedline... and that usually makes the feedline part of the antenna (introducing losses and potential for RFI / noise). An automatic tuner AT the antenna keeps the signal in the coax 50 ohm to the tuner, then matches it at the point that it no longer matters (the antenna). Very much like the guys that use the high-voltage variable caps at base feed of 160 meter and some 80 meter antennas (ie loading a tower)... but yeah, there are days I fight with my ah-4 ... where I know a solution exists, but because of the current solution being weird, it can't find the correct one... sometimes have to change to certain bands to get the tuner to tune a solution that is closer to the desired solution then move back to the desired band before it will figure out.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I didn't know the AH-4 presents a 50 ohm resistor to the radio, very interesting!
Apologies for being late to the party with this video. Really enjoyed it as explained well the pros & cons of both types of tuners. Thank you. 73 de 2E0IEH
You're welcome...and thank you for leaving your comment! 73 from VE3TWM.
I have several Auto Tuners, including the Z-11 and a Elecraft T1.
For Hiking and Camping, I normally take my MFJ-9201. I would recommend this tuner to anyone operating from the forest !
Thanks for you videos, Best 72 es 73
Lee, WA8QFE (BushRadio on BCUSA site)
Thank you for your comment, Lee! 73 from VE3TWM.
Hi Tracy I have an Automatic LDG for my 817 and use an MFJ 949 Manual tuner for the FT897 etc.Excellent being 76 have used many tuners in my time and tuned many older radios as well so know what you are on about exactly but excellent as always my 73 Trig
Hi Trig! Thank you for watching and for your comment. Be well, my friend.
The Icom IC-7000's power drops as SWR increases above 2:1. This note can be found on page 15 of the owner's manual. The problem with the IC-7000 is that there is a design flaw. If I recall correctly the original design allowed too much current to flow to or through the finals and would eventually burn them up. I had to send mine in because TX power dropped to about 50% 30 minutes after Field Day started, and Icom replaced the finals and installed a resistor nearby. I saw this procedure in another TH-cam video by a non-Icom tech, and he explained that the later designs had this resistor installed. If you use the Icom AH-4 automatic antenna tuner, not only will it drop the output power to 5 watts during tuning, but it will auto tune when needed without the operator having to press Tune, although the Tune button can be used at any time. I think that the manual tuners can be a great learning tool, but the operator would have to remember to drop power output every time tuning is performed unless the tuning was done while receiving only. Auto tuners typically can't be used for higher power whereas some manual tuners can handle 1500 watts.
Thank you for sharing this information!
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir You're welcome. 73
Super video about the tuners!
Great job!
Thank you!
i have that IC 7200 radio and Japanese tuner Comet
but, my antenna is doublet mfj 1777, please advise me how about choke current balun to protect over load of RFI backward ? thank you and hope stay healthy with us, Sir
you do know that my radio don't have internal tuner?
Hi, to answer your question about RF on the feedline, check out my video on line isolators:
th-cam.com/video/idJQFWNoF_Q/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the video to which I'd like to add a word about the different kind of tuners available on the market.
What is described in the video goes mostly about T-matching circuits and other matching type like Pi, Double-T, L-match...exist.
These all serve the same purpose, though they don't have the same specifications or field of use.
By this I'd like to tackle the antenna feed impedance for symetric vs. asymetric, centre-fed vs. end-fed, lw.... all require a specific type of matching unit and impedance tuning range. So I'd like to advise all to check which is the most suitable tuner for each antenna configuration. A good source of information is the MFJ webpage (this is not meant to be an ad), go through the specs hand have a look at the schematics.
See you on the air and 73's,
Patrick - ON4KNP
Thank you for the interesting comment, Patrick. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
Great Job!! I use both automatic and manual. Thanks for the GREAT videos. Hope to work You on the bands.
Thank you! I look forward to that contact.
Thanks for the video!
You're welcome, and thank you for watching!
Hello Terry it's been a long time but I got my ft818 an my Rock pal solar generator in the loop antenna I'm ready to rock and roll I'm going to do some TH-cam videos thank you for sharing everything you
Let me know when you start your channel, Joe! I'm looking forward to seeing you in action.
Thank You for this very usefull video. Greetings from Belgium.
Thank you for your comment! 73 from Canada.
Any chance you have a videos on how to use those Kenwood tuners? Really the AT-180 !
No video on that (yet!)...but here is how to do it put briefly.
- Once the antenna and rig are connected and you are tuned into the frequency you want to use, on the tuner switch to the band you are operating on.
- Then put both rotary controls at the 12 o'clock position. Starting with the first knob, rotate the control slowly until the background noise on the rig rises to a maximum level.
- Once done, repeat this process with the second knob.
- You can then safely key the rig, then rotate the left knob for minimum reflected power.
- Unkey the mic. Key again, then repeat with the second knob.
- Keep transmissions short during this process. Either the tuner will bring the antenna system down to an acceptable SWR, or there is a large problem with the antenna or the tuner.
Hope this helps!
Hello!
I really did not know that the manual tuner had so many advantages. In my base station I do not use tuner because I use one of those antennas similar to Comet CHA-250, the tuning in this type of antenna is instantaneous and automatic, but in portable operations I use an LDG Z-817. It is very fast, but it's true that you expose the radio to a high SWR for a few long seconds.
Great video! 73
PY1XR
Thank you for sharing your experience, Fabio.
73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
Thanks again, Tracy! I've found this video so informative that this is the third time I've watched it. :-)
I'm about to buy a manual tuner, but I'm having trouble deciding which to buy! I'd like it to be fully featured, and I love the idea of a decently sized, easily readable meter, but I'd also like it to be one that I can take out in the field, as I prefer portable communications to sitting behind a desk (too much like work!). So I'd truly appreciate any recommendations you might have. Thanks again and 73!
This is tricky as I don't want to offend anyone. Oh well, here goes. I avoid accessories made by a certain 3-letter manufacturer that starts with "M" due to production quality concerns. Look for a good used Yaesu or Kenwood manual tuner. You might have to wait for a while, but they were built to last for years.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir Ah, interesting! And I hear you. I've been a tad concerned about that myself. I will definitely take your advice, thanks!
Great video . i use alwais , in my QRP acivity , a simple wire and one L/c tuner ... Tracy , you are a very tacher ! Franz as ik0 rks ...vy '73
Grazie, Francesco! 73 from VE3TWM.
Hi tracie Can you advise me setting up a yaesu frg 8800 receiver with a long wire. I've got a auto atu and separate swr. All this was given to me. Could u put a vid together to show how a receiver set up should be put together please. Thanks Mike. Wales. UK..
Hi Mike! An ATU is designed for use with a transmitter. You can't use one with a receiver as the ATU uses the transmit power to tune. Find yourself a good manual tuner and start enjoying that receiver. Then consider studying to get your ham license 👍
You can lower the power to transmit while auto-tuning to prevent hurting the finals. The same argument could be made when manually tuning, you’re spending more time tuning with making micro adjustments which would hurt the finals more… unless you have a NanoVNA or an antenna analyzer to adjust the manual tuner before using on the radio.
Good video. I was thinking about an automatic tuner this helps me a lot thanks David Byrd KN4BHS
Thank you, David.
Wouldn't it help to lower your power to about 10 watts to use the automatic tuner? To save the finals.
Yes, it would!
Tracy, one additional plus for manual tuners over automatic turners is "batteries not required" for the manual turner. If you are on an extended portable excursion then every device that requires electricity for operation determines the capacity of the battery you will be required to carry. I know from experience that the LDG 817 automatic turner batteries will last about one year but it I go portable, even for a short stay, I take my manual turner rather than my automatic turner. All other points in this video I agree with you. Best 73 Terry KB8AMZ
Very good point, Terry. Thank you for contributing to the discussion. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
Good video. Been a General for a while now, but really haven't had much space to get out there. However, I tried a few times on 20M with a FT817ND on a YoYo-Vee, but had no success on transmit. I later bought an MFJ-1786 loop, still can't seem to get a signal out. I guess I'm asking how can you know (without taking it somewhere first) if the finals are blown?
Thank you for your comment, I truly appreciate it.
Get yourself (or borrow) a good external RF power meter and either a dummy load or a properly working antenna. Then you'll know for sure. Good luck!
Thanks for the response. Hope to be able to do that soon, I do have both an automatic tuner and a MFJ-949E to test. '73s!
Great video... I'm a new Ham as of a few months ago and as of yet, have not acquired my first rig. Do you have any recommendations. I'm interested in taking my rig hiking and operating on low power.
Hi Michael, I'm totally biased but my pick amongst many fine QRP rigs is the Yaesu FT-817. You'll need to determine what features are important to you, then base your decision on that list. For example, if you are 100% CW, then the 817 may not be the best choice. For me, the 817 checks all the boxes.
FT817
Some might say that QRP isn't the best type of operation for beginners, unless he/she has a GOOD expectation of the challenges involved. If you're very patient and don't "need" to make any contacts right away, then go for it.
Going QRP out-of-the-gate is akin to getting a motor vehicle operators license--and then riding a bicycle everywhere you go. Options will be quite limited. Best of luck.
Interesting! Thanks.
You're welcome!
Tracy, this was really helpful to me, a relatively new ham who is interested in getting into outdoor HF. I learned a lot and will explore moving to a manual tuner. One question - if the transceiver has an internal tuner, I presume I can still tell it to not tune the antenna and then do that with a manual tuner that I have connected. Is that so? This Canadian ham says that’s a great sweatshirt!! VA7SGY
Hi Bruce, thank you for leaving a comment. While I don't know about every transceiver that has a built-in tuner, most very definitely give you the option to turn off the tuner when not desired.
PS The sweatshirt is one of my favourite things to wear in the winter, it's as warm and comfy as it is great looking :) Check out Douglas + Son's website (no affiliation).
73 from Tracy VE3TWM.1
I have the LDG Z-100Plus ATU. It can tune with as little power as under 1 watt so tend to do that on bands where my ATU can't set a match without a lot of time (vs the under 1 second time it takes to pull up a memory of a frequency or close by the frequency I use a lot) or when I'm trying to tune something I just know it is going to send a lot of RF back down the coax!
I will say that the Z11pro or the AT-100 or the AT-200 from LDG offer fine-tuning the tuners "best finding" and the 200watt or even 600watt version in the future is definitely something I'd consider but for now, the Z-100Plus is great because it needs minuscule amounts of power which is great for QRP on the usage but also perfect for a "barefoot" Transceiver like my ICOM IC-718 which is 100watts and interfaces with the Z-100 for both power and tuning via the radios tuner button and some other features.
As a newbie, my Icon IC-7300 has a SWR meter and a tuner. I got a manual tuner using the same logic that I should learn to drive a manual car to learn to drive, likewise I should practice on a manual tuner.
In my CB days when I didn’t know anything I used to think using an antenna tuner was a form of cheating. CB-ers had to know about SWR and adjusting antennas, but hams just turned a knob.
I have the yeasu 991A. Do I need an ant tuner if I plan on building an end fed vertical ?
Not if the antenna is resonant on the frequencies you intend to use it on.
auto tuner yep at the bottom
I'm new to amateur or ham radio very good video .what antenna tuner would you recommend to use on a Yaesu ft 100d thanks
Find a good used manual tuner (preferably not one with three letters as a brand name). I really like the Kenwood and Yaesu ones, but I've also heard good things about Dentron.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir okay I appreciate your help I 'm a old c b er .trying to become a ham operator even though some people aren't very helpful but I will over come that thanks again ki5esh Darrell
Please don't walk away from the hobby due to some intolerant people. There are plenty of friendly, helpful ones out there. Join a local club to meet some :).
Thank you for your informative video. I am new to the Amateur Radio scene. KG7WEN. I am trying to understand the need for Antenna tuners. I have a MFJ-874 and trying to understand that unit. Am I correct that the MFJ-874 is only a SWR meter and not a Antenna tuner? I also have the ICOM IC-718 Radio and I see a button on the front panel that says "Tuner" is that a built in Antenna tuner? Thank you again for sharing your video.
Congratulations on getting your ticket and joining this great hobby! We are happy to have you join our ranks.
You are correct. The MFJ-874 is just a meter, not a tuner.
The Tuner button on the 718 is designed to control an external automatic tuner. There is no internal tuner in the 718.
73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
Surely tune-up is carried out at very low power levels? Icom tend to be so low that signal used is too low to radiate as QRM.
Good point. Many ops don't start out with the power low when they tune.
great video
Thank you, Paul!
I'm considering buying one for my Mobil CB. I have OCD about SWR and I'm constantly checking it and it drives me nuts when it's uneven. If I could shorten or lengthen the antenna by tuning a knob to make it perfect I would be happy 😂.
What is a good small manual tuner to take out in the field?
Thank you for your question. My favourite, though a bit heavy, is the Kenwood AT-120 that I've shown in the video. I don't think you can buy a new manual tuner that is as well built as this one. AT-120's (and the nearly identical AT-130) are not too hard to find on the used market.
Thx!
What are blown finals?
Final transistors, the big (and often expensive to replace) transistors in the RF amplifier stage of the transmitter. Many radios are not able to withstand high SWR for more than a very short period and exposing those rigs to high SWR can permanently damage (blow) the "finals".
Some of my apartment antennas require the manual tuner, mfj 969 and some the auto tuner built into the rig yaesu ft 900. But never both at the same time.
Excellent Videoooo!!!! Thanks for sharing!!! Alejandro LU8ACH
From what I understand about my transceiver, I believe that it has protection circuitry. It's a Yaesu FT-891, it seems to fair well when I am tuning with my manual tuner. Though my manual tuner can't get the SWR under 2:1, I hope my ATU can do better.
Thank you for sharing your experience. A manual tuner that can't tune a 2:1 SWR can't be that good. Never heard of one that couldn't.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir might have been my antenna, with my new dipole that I made I now get 1:1