Good experiment Tracy! I have the same Hamstick as well as 10m, 40m, 80m, same telescopic whip and same AA-35 Zoom analyzer. You have my interest up. I'll have to try this myself. 73!
I enjoy the experimentation and thinking outside the box, Tracy! This brought back my forgotten memory of an idea to experiment with making a top hat out of alligator clips and wire to attach to a telescoping whip. 73
The telescopic whip being much thicker than the original stinger whip on the Hamstick affects resonance and is why it doesn't give the same readings when extended to the same length as the original Hamstick whip. These long telescopic whips are great, not only for for portable (SOTO/POTA) etc but for experimentation and general "playing around", just like in this video!👍 I wound a 4" dia coil on some plastic tube with tappings for different bands. The coil also has an attachable ground spike which makes it self supporting in soft ground which is a bonus in the right ground conditions. Sure, you can buy stuff like this but making and testing your own kit is a large part of the hobby for me.😃👍
Great idea and a good test. I have a couple of 17ft whips and 75 and 60 meter hamsticks that I can try. I also have sets of Shark shorty hamsticks that don't have the 3/8x24 connection. I intend to try with the 75 and 60m though. Thanks
What you have done is basically used a Hamstick as a long slender version of a Wolf River Coil Sporty Forty....However, something like a WRC Mini would be a much better option, though. In both cases, you are still get coil induction losses, but the WRC will give you a much more stable mounting platform (not near as top heavy) and much more flexibility... and unless you already have the Hamsticks, they are just as cost efficient, as well. A WRC Mini (coil only) runs roughly $55 and will tune 6-80M with one of those 5.6M whips, whereas it'll take at least 2 Hamsticks so the same at $20-25/ea. You get the add benefit of not have to deal everything out to swap bands, too....setup once, adjust as needed.... That said, amateur radio is all about experimentation, so good on you there. One thing I've been considering is pairing a 80M Hamstick with a 49:1 transformer, making a highly compromised/bastardized version of a 40M vertical EFHW (or a 9:1 for a EFRW). If it works (which has some doubts), it would allow me to use a single antenna for 40-10M for mobile POTA activations.... But, future project 😉😂
I use a mfj-63 loading coil with a 17ft whip with a radials can operate on 80 60 and 40 meters without the need of a ATU, I do have a common mode choke at the base of the antenna.
I appreciate this! Thank you for testing it out. I’ve got several of these “stick” antennas and I’ve often wondered if I could find a simple way to change the band (other than removing one stick antenna for another). 73!
I've been curious about doing this, but haven't had an opportunity to do so yet. Your previous video about mag mounts & ham sticks came to mind when I watched this. With a whip, one could potentially adjust for some of the strange mismatches that crop up. No worries about "cutting it twice and it's still too short" when it comes to the stinger. Enjoy your videos! 73 de N8ESP
It’s nice science! Pair one of those mad dog coils with the new 25 feet chameleon whip and you get a very practical antenna able to reach the lower bands. That coil, the whip and a good piece of wire (that you can connect to the coil as an extra long whip as a sloper) gives you a very good antenna flexibility for the field. After that you don’t need much else in the field, maybe a buddy hex 😊 73!
Great idea. But looks pretty topheavy and precarious to me Tracey. Probably need to guy it somehow. You’d also need to experiment with radials if you’re going to try to get it to tune on 40. Just guessing, but I think a 40M hamstick might be a more practical choice. Always fun to try these things. Thanks for sharing.
I have this set up, but my ham stick is home brewed from an old fiberglass cb antenna re wrapped with 14 ga insulated magnet wire. It gets me on 60/40/30 with my chameleon whip extended halfway out. No good on windy days.
Good video idea, but we never did see the analyzer screen. The reflection was just of you in the background., something to keep in mind for future videos
I did something very similar with the Chameleon CHA MIL Hybrid transformer rated at 500 watts, CHA MIL Extension mounted on top that, their capacity hat, then a 10-inch extension from a Stryker CB antenna, topped off with a Hustler RMS 40 meter loading coil with the stinger about half the length out. And, I must recommend using locking washers with antenna assemblies. At the end of it all in the shack is an LDG AT-1000 Pro2 Autotuner matching everything up, great DX from an apartment everywhere! KD8EFQ/73
Have you seen the Chameleon SS25? A 25' whip. It would be interesting to see the results with that. It might get you down near 75m or 80m on a 40m Hamstick. Just a thought.
Apparently there are at least 2 kinds of hamsticks, some of which do not have removable stingers. I have only ever seen those with removable ones. The ones I have are sold under the brand name "Iron Horse".
Hi Tracy, nice video as always. Have you ever thought of pairing a hamstick with a... EFHW transformer??? I've long wanted to try a 40 meter hamstick paired with a 64:1 transformer. Why do such a crazy thing? Because you should end up with a multi-band antenna capable of 20, 15, and 10 meters. I'm not sure how the hamstick loading coil would affect the performance, but it should be pretty cheap to try. The big benefit that I see is that by making the antenna a half-wave then you eliminate the need for a ground plane so you can use it anywhere. In theory, it should work something like a Cushcraft R8 antenna. I can see it being convenient for those times when you want to set up a quick vertical antenna but don't have the time or space to string out a bunch of radials. And you have ruined me for quarter-wave antennas. You turned me on to EFHW antennas a few years back and that's all I care to use now. They are great for QRP operations as there is little power loss in the transformer so my 10 watt SSB signal goes farther. 🙂 I may try this myself some day when I have time. (Medical issues prevent me from doing this at the moment.) If this works even half-way decently then I could see it being a great setup paired with my TX-500 for the RaDAR Rally (www.radarrally.info/)
Other options include... The dipole mount for two Hamsticks. The Princess Auto Surplus Tent Poles, pretty easy to get up five sections (with guys), so ~20 feet. Wire antennas, full size.
You mentioned AliExpress below. Have you tried the "Nvarcher PAC-12 Inducted Coil 40 M Band for Shortwave Antenna" coil with the 17ft whip? It's nice looking but I don't know if it would work with just the whip and coil or whether it would need some of the extension sections as well. It would be nice if they gave an inductance reading for it.
yes, I did. note, however, this coil is a very small one, has 8uH only and it should be called "20m" coil, as it's not for 40m, by far! this coil in fact is meant to get at 20m using a smaller 2.6m whip. but, going back to your question - well, using the long 5.3 meter whip and that coil will easily give you access 10m band, but the lowest resonance at fully extended whip is only at 8.3mHz, so it's too far from 40m band. To get 40m band you will need 2 of those coils in fact.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir I like it alot except that it directional enough to use a rotator. Might be a good thing. The bands are more narrow than my cobweb. 80m is so narrow its almost a wasted effort.
I bet your resonance would have been closer to the middle of the 40m band if you had laid out a pair of 33' radials in addition to the shorter ones you used for 20m. Not really practical in a public location like where you made the video, but it would help if you were away from where all the public traffic is. Great video with useful information, Tracy. Thanks for sharing with us! 73 de K5SFC
Great video but I am sorry to say that Chameleon just came out with a 25 foot telescoping whip antenna. Even though, I will still give your video a go to . Thanks
I used a 17ft whip in base loaded configuration and my short wolf-river coil that measure just under 40uH, and full load with whip ill assume all extended wil get resonant on 80m, while for 40m with same setup whip fully extended requires maybe 1/6th or just 1/8th of load. I just punched number in a Coil-Shortened vertical antenna calculator on pac...66 and made a parameters that would somewhat represent lower portion of hamstick and whip extended. Total height of antenna in feet 21, Distance from antenna base to the center of the coil in feet 3, Diameter of the conductor in inches 0.1, Operating frequency in megahertz 3.9. Results The required inductance of the coil is 35.1 microhenries. For 40m inductance is just under 7uH Hamstick is very very inefficient on 80m, im my guesstimation maybe in range of 2-10%, the setup like hamstick base and whip should be multiple times more efficient better. if you are using a 20m hamstick there is very good chances that inductance of lower part measures somewhere between 12-20uH and with little bit of luck and maybe few radials you could pair that with 17ft whip and get it working on 80.
Hi Chris, I've been wondering about that too. I suppose the upside is that hamsticks are relatively cheap, so you're not out that much if it breaks. I'll have to give some thought to building a joint reinforcement. 73 my friend!
hamstick is pretty sturdy and will easily hold that whip, and, yes, it's very easy and cheap to just add 3 guy wires at the joint between the 2 antennas and then it's gonna be quite solid. this is for portable ops, of course, as it would be crazy to use that telescopic in a permanent installation given that it's veeery fragile, unlike the fiberglass hamstick.
I dont have nun of them license thingys but found a 1000w amp in the neibors basement while I was *talk8ng* to his wife. I hooked that baby, the amp, to a 25 dollar chinese radio and opened up on all the ham channels. I'll have to try it with that antenna right after i finish *talk8ng* to my other neighbors wife.
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.922 | 10 พ.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zmV5HRIxIBI/mqdefault.jpg)
That is a really neat experiment.Thanks for the encouragement to "just try things" in amateur radio.
This is pretty cool idea Tracy!!
Thanks, Chuck!
I am running this setup for the last week and I love it. I am also testing it in an MFJ dipole setup on a 10 meter heigh portable mast
Good experiment Tracy! I have the same Hamstick as well as 10m, 40m, 80m, same telescopic whip and same AA-35 Zoom analyzer. You have my interest up. I'll have to try this myself. 73!
Let me know how it goes! 73 from VE3TWM.
Nice video. Good information with exploring different combinations.
Nice experiment!
Thanks, Tim! Hope you are having a good summer.
I enjoy the experimentation and thinking outside the box, Tracy! This brought back my forgotten memory of an idea to experiment with making a top hat out of alligator clips and wire to attach to a telescoping whip. 73
Time for that top hat? Thanks for your comment and 73 from VE3TWM!
I swear by SharkRF mini's!! They worked so well on the car!!
The telescopic whip being much thicker than the original stinger whip on the Hamstick affects resonance and is why it doesn't give the same readings when extended to the same length as the original Hamstick whip.
These long telescopic whips are great, not only for for portable (SOTO/POTA) etc but for experimentation and general "playing around", just like in this video!👍 I wound a 4" dia coil on some plastic tube with tappings for different bands. The coil also has an attachable ground spike which makes it self supporting in soft ground which is a bonus in the right ground conditions. Sure, you can buy stuff like this but making and testing your own kit is a large part of the hobby for me.😃👍
Great comment, thank you!
Great idea and a good test. I have a couple of 17ft whips and 75 and 60 meter hamsticks that I can try. I also have sets of Shark shorty hamsticks that don't have the 3/8x24 connection. I intend to try with the 75 and 60m though. Thanks
What you have done is basically used a Hamstick as a long slender version of a Wolf River Coil Sporty Forty....However, something like a WRC Mini would be a much better option, though. In both cases, you are still get coil induction losses, but the WRC will give you a much more stable mounting platform (not near as top heavy) and much more flexibility... and unless you already have the Hamsticks, they are just as cost efficient, as well. A WRC Mini (coil only) runs roughly $55 and will tune 6-80M with one of those 5.6M whips, whereas it'll take at least 2 Hamsticks so the same at $20-25/ea. You get the add benefit of not have to deal everything out to swap bands, too....setup once, adjust as needed....
That said, amateur radio is all about experimentation, so good on you there. One thing I've been considering is pairing a 80M Hamstick with a 49:1 transformer, making a highly compromised/bastardized version of a 40M vertical EFHW (or a 9:1 for a EFRW). If it works (which has some doubts), it would allow me to use a single antenna for 40-10M for mobile POTA activations.... But, future project 😉😂
Good comment, thank you!
I use a mfj-63 loading coil with a 17ft whip with a radials can operate on 80 60 and 40 meters without the need of a ATU, I do have a common mode choke at the base of the antenna.
I appreciate this! Thank you for testing it out. I’ve got several of these “stick” antennas and I’ve often wondered if I could find a simple way to change the band (other than removing one stick antenna for another). 73!
Hi Elliott, let me know how it goes! 73 from VE3TWM.
I have previously used two ham stick coil sections screwed together with the original whip to work on lower bands.
That's next level thinking!
I've been curious about doing this, but haven't had an opportunity to do so yet. Your previous video about mag mounts & ham sticks came to mind when I watched this. With a whip, one could potentially adjust for some of the strange mismatches that crop up. No worries about "cutting it twice and it's still too short" when it comes to the stinger.
Enjoy your videos!
73 de N8ESP
That's a great point! 73 from VE3TWM.
It’s nice science! Pair one of those mad dog coils with the new 25 feet chameleon whip and you get a very practical antenna able to reach the lower bands. That coil, the whip and a good piece of wire (that you can connect to the coil as an extra long whip as a sloper) gives you a very good antenna flexibility for the field. After that you don’t need much else in the field, maybe a buddy hex 😊
73!
Interesting, thank you! 73 from VE3TWM.
Great idea. But looks pretty topheavy and precarious to me Tracey. Probably need to guy it somehow. You’d also need to experiment with radials if you’re going to try to get it to tune on 40. Just guessing, but I think a 40M hamstick might be a more practical choice. Always fun to try these things. Thanks for sharing.
Good point about the combination being top-heavy!
I have this set up, but my ham stick is home brewed from an old fiberglass cb antenna re wrapped with 14 ga insulated magnet wire. It gets me on 60/40/30 with my chameleon whip extended halfway out. No good on windy days.
I'll go one more and say put that puppy as a vertical element on a disk cone like the Diamond D-130J. 😁
Always great seeing videos from you. 73 buddy.
Now THAT'S an interesting idea! 73 from VE3TWM.
For some reason, what comes to mind is to use this with a portable Delta Loop! 😁
Good video idea, but we never did see the analyzer screen. The reflection was just of you in the background., something to keep in mind for future videos
Thank you for the feedback. I'll work on improving that in future videos.
I did something very similar with the Chameleon CHA MIL Hybrid transformer rated at 500 watts, CHA MIL Extension mounted on top that, their capacity hat, then a 10-inch extension from a Stryker CB antenna, topped off with a Hustler RMS 40 meter loading coil with the stinger about half the length out. And, I must recommend using locking washers with antenna assemblies. At the end of it all in the shack is an LDG AT-1000 Pro2 Autotuner matching everything up, great DX from an apartment everywhere!
KD8EFQ/73
That's awesome, thank you for sharing! 73 from VE3TWM.
Have you seen the Chameleon SS25? A 25' whip. It would be interesting to see the results with that. It might get you down near 75m or 80m on a 40m Hamstick. Just a thought.
That would be really interesting to test!
Thanks, I've got a few ideas to try now.
Have fun out there, Mike!
Well I have both of these items so I guess i'll give it a try :)
i can't seem to remove the stinger from my shark ham stick....is there another kind of ham stick made by some other manufacturer?
Apparently there are at least 2 kinds of hamsticks, some of which do not have removable stingers. I have only ever seen those with removable ones. The ones I have are sold under the brand name "Iron Horse".
Nice barred owl at the finish.
Hi Tracy, nice video as always.
Have you ever thought of pairing a hamstick with a... EFHW transformer??? I've long wanted to try a 40 meter hamstick paired with a 64:1 transformer. Why do such a crazy thing? Because you should end up with a multi-band antenna capable of 20, 15, and 10 meters. I'm not sure how the hamstick loading coil would affect the performance, but it should be pretty cheap to try. The big benefit that I see is that by making the antenna a half-wave then you eliminate the need for a ground plane so you can use it anywhere. In theory, it should work something like a Cushcraft R8 antenna. I can see it being convenient for those times when you want to set up a quick vertical antenna but don't have the time or space to string out a bunch of radials. And you have ruined me for quarter-wave antennas. You turned me on to EFHW antennas a few years back and that's all I care to use now. They are great for QRP operations as there is little power loss in the transformer so my 10 watt SSB signal goes farther. 🙂
I may try this myself some day when I have time. (Medical issues prevent me from doing this at the moment.) If this works even half-way decently then I could see it being a great setup paired with my TX-500 for the RaDAR Rally (www.radarrally.info/)
What a fascinating idea, Todd! Thank you for your comment.
Where on earth did you find an M10 (female) to 3/8-24 (male) adapter?
Ali Express - 2PCS/20PCS M10 Female To 3/8 24 Male Screw Mount Adapter Aluminium Alloy For V Antenna
Other options include... The dipole mount for two Hamsticks. The Princess Auto Surplus Tent Poles, pretty easy to get up five sections (with guys), so ~20 feet. Wire antennas, full size.
Where did you find the adapter?
AliExpress.
Hi. Where did you get the M10-1,5 x 3/8 x 24 adapter?
Ali express.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir And what is the link to the adapter please ?
@@W-733_KWX go to Ali express and search for 2PCS/20PCS M10 Female To 3/8 24 Male Screw Mount Adapter Aluminium Alloy For V Antenna
You mentioned AliExpress below. Have you tried the "Nvarcher PAC-12 Inducted Coil 40 M Band for Shortwave Antenna" coil with the 17ft whip? It's nice looking but I don't know if it would work with just the whip and coil or whether it would need some of the extension sections as well. It would be nice if they gave an inductance reading for it.
I hadn't heard of that item. I took a look and the description does not specify RF power rating which makes me wonder. Would be fun to test, though!
yes, I did. note, however, this coil is a very small one, has 8uH only and it should be called "20m" coil, as it's not for 40m, by far! this coil in fact is meant to get at 20m using a smaller 2.6m whip. but, going back to your question - well, using the long 5.3 meter whip and that coil will easily give you access 10m band, but the lowest resonance at fully extended whip is only at 8.3mHz, so it's too far from 40m band. To get 40m band you will need 2 of those coils in fact.
Whip Stick? Not sure if I like the sound of that? lol 👍👍👍 I have a 4 band Octopus, works good.
I hummed and hawed over that one too! How do you like the Octopus?
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir I like it alot except that it directional enough to use a rotator. Might be a good thing. The bands are more narrow than my cobweb. 80m is so narrow its almost a wasted effort.
I can see my self creating a Frankantenna.
Experimenting...like your engineer friend!
I use a WRC for the loading coil with the 17 whip.
I am wondering if the longer length of the hamstick coil will be much different than the WRC.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir It would make sense of a slight improvement due to longer length than just a tight coil. 1 tenth of 1 percent LOL.
I bet your resonance would have been closer to the middle of the 40m band if you had laid out a pair of 33' radials in addition to the shorter ones you used for 20m. Not really practical in a public location like where you made the video, but it would help if you were away from where all the public traffic is. Great video with useful information, Tracy. Thanks for sharing with us!
73 de K5SFC
Great point! 73 from VE3TWM.
Now here's a thought - put a single elevated radial up - and if you can't get the 10m/33ft in, then use another hamstick. :-)
Great video but I am sorry to say that Chameleon just came out with a 25 foot telescoping whip antenna. Even though, I will still give your video a go to . Thanks
What do you think about putting Ham stick on top of 9 foot CHA MIL extensions?
I see one of those 25-foot whips in my future, thank you for the heads up!
@charleswoods2996 I'd like to try that!
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir You’d have to do more guying with that one, I’d think.
I used a 17ft whip in base loaded configuration and my short wolf-river coil that measure just under 40uH, and full load with whip ill assume all extended wil get resonant on 80m, while for 40m with same setup whip fully extended requires maybe 1/6th or just 1/8th of load. I just punched number in a Coil-Shortened vertical antenna calculator on pac...66 and made a parameters that would somewhat represent lower portion of hamstick and whip extended.
Total height of antenna in feet 21,
Distance from antenna base to the center of the coil in feet 3,
Diameter of the conductor in inches 0.1,
Operating frequency in megahertz 3.9.
Results The required inductance of the coil is 35.1 microhenries.
For 40m inductance is just under 7uH
Hamstick is very very inefficient on 80m, im my guesstimation maybe in range of 2-10%, the setup like hamstick base and whip should be multiple times more efficient better.
if you are using a 20m hamstick there is very good chances that inductance of lower part measures somewhere between 12-20uH and with little bit of luck and maybe few radials you could pair that with 17ft whip and get it working on 80.
Thank you for this interesting comment!
Very creative.
Good video.
Barry, KU3X
Thank you, Barry!
I miss an TX test. Will it better for TX or only it has a better SWR?
TX video coming soon!
Interesting, but my hamsticks don't have the screw off bit for the stinger. I think I have the cheap versions! :-)
I didn't know about that variation of hamstick, thank you for pointing that out.
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir It's a bit of a pain as you can't just unscrew the stinger with it in the "tuned" position.
I might be nervous about the mechanical stress on the joint between the hamstick and the whip. Cool test though!!
Hi Chris, I've been wondering about that too. I suppose the upside is that hamsticks are relatively cheap, so you're not out that much if it breaks. I'll have to give some thought to building a joint reinforcement. 73 my friend!
Just make some sort of adaptor/collar and attach the guy ropes to the bottom of the telescopic section., shouldn't be that hard to do.
hamstick is pretty sturdy and will easily hold that whip, and, yes, it's very easy and cheap to just add 3 guy wires at the joint between the 2 antennas and then it's gonna be quite solid. this is for portable ops, of course, as it would be crazy to use that telescopic in a permanent installation given that it's veeery fragile, unlike the fiberglass hamstick.
I think id rather use a wolf river coil with the extendable whip much more adjustable
I get it.
Only some models of the ham sticks have the 3/8" on the top, some only have a small hole for the stinger. i have both kinds so i know.
I didn't know about the ones that only have the hole! Thank you for sharing.
Ah yes, I left a comment saying mine don't have the screw in bit for the stinger. I guess mine are the cheap ones!
well, in that case simply use a male-male 3/8 bolt a problem is easily solved.
Thank You.
I dont have nun of them license thingys but found a 1000w amp in the neibors basement while I was *talk8ng* to his wife. I hooked that baby, the amp, to a 25 dollar chinese radio and opened up on all the ham channels. I'll have to try it with that antenna right after i finish *talk8ng* to my other neighbors wife.
Congratulations! After 13 years and thousands of comments received, yours might be the oddest one ever left on my channel.
Good video Tracy! Thanks for sharing. I think my chat about this with Tom was a while ago. 73 VE3GKT
Thanks for the idea, Joseph! 73 from VE3TWM.