Good analysis ! But you forget one major thing on what Eren meant by the world in Armin's book. The world in Armin's books is empty, without civilisation nor society. The thing is that since the very begenning of the show, Armin's book was his dream and his main goal. But what he saw in this empty world is a world different from inside the walls. Basically Eren wanted to escape civilisation and society because absolute freedom and civilisation are in complete contradiction. No matter the political system in place, there are always laws, morals limits and others chains against absolute freedom. Eren wanted to grasp absolute freedom, a conceptual ideal of freedom that humans beings can't obtain by nature. He wanted to overcome his human nature and grasping his impossible thing that is freedom. If we are looking the world a realistic way, no living beings are absolutely free. As free will exist, freedom don't. Freedom means that you can't be bound by any options, and everything is possible. In Eren's case, Eren wanted to create a world where everything was possible. And it was not possible with civilisations. That's why he wanted to erase humanity outside the world. he wanted to erase civilisations, society, politics, morals... Every chains that humans created. He wanted humans to expand and venture on this empty land where everything could have been possible. And since everyone is a slave to something, Eren was ironically a slave to this ideal of freedom. That's the important thing you missed in season 3. Everyone is a slave to a personnal desire, a desire that lead us no matter what. And for Eren it was freedom. That said, and if may be it clarify the ideal of freedom Eren has, i agree that Eren is not purely in control. But he is absolutely NOT influenced by Ymir. Understand that the power of the Attack Titan is enough to manipulate him. Indeed, Eren is bound to his futur because he can't overcome his desire and because his power completely messed up his minds. There are no Ymir influence in that, only the fact that Eren was manipulated by his own future. The power of the Attack Titan means that he can't manipulate past Attack Titans. Eren from the furure manipulated Eren in the past so that he can become what he is meant to. It's a paradox when Eren created his own destiny but was a slave to it in the same time. Since everything is determined, Eren is just bound to himself. That's what tell the concept of destiny. Even if every choices are or choices, they are all already written. In this case Eren wrote all of his choices from the future, making him a slave to his future self. He was not influenced by Ymir, but by himself.
He's definitely not in full control because he no longer was able to differentiate between past, present and future. I think we underestimate how disorienting it would be to have your memories mixed with what you're seeing in the present, with what you know of the future. Especially when the concept of memory itself in AOT is unfixed in the time experienced by Eren. Think about it: we have the illusion of being free, precisely because we don't know what the future holds. But if the future is unchanging, then we will never have freedom of trying something different knowing that our actions are a factor in the future. Plus, the point of the island being destroyed isn't that we should just give up on peace because "what's the point". The point is, even if conflicts repeat itself, that we should still focus on escaping the forest. If you look too far into the horizon like Eren (and Zeke) did, you will miss the conch shell right beneath your feet (Armin hasn't). I believe the conclusion is more optimistic than what the surface of the conclusion indicates. Also, think about the differences between the boy and original Ymir. At least on rewatch, the conclusion was better appreciated for me.
Few nuances about your initial line "He's definitely not in full control because he no longer was able to differentiate between past, present and future"... I wouldn't say he is in not in control of his actions... & i'll explain my version of why he feels messed up in the head... What he means by that - the Founder's power is immense (to be able to influence titans & memories across P,P,F), but at the same time it's Restrictive as in - he can't chose to not do certain actions... For eg. to be at the position he is (having access to the Founder's power) - (a) Carla had to die (for Eren's sake & for Grisha's sake - for Grisha to feel vengeful & give the titans to Eren)... (b) Hannes had to come across DinaTitan in 2x12, bcoz he had to make DinaTitan touch Eren - for Eren & the scouts to save themselves & not die that day. - Even with immense power in his hands, he has only 1 choice in these points of time to shape the history & even if he wishes to say, save his mother, the power won't allow that, coz it would break down the history (since P,P,F - is all laid out at once)... that's why it messes up his head. - - Founder Eren is in control, but he's helpless and choice-less in scenarios like these. And all the choices that led to path till getting access to are all driven by his will and choices, even if he's seen ahead, it wouldn't change who he is. - As to all your other points, totally agree.
Like I said in the previous video, this result is paradoxically what Eren wanted and didn't want all at the same time. He felt like he had no choice and was forced to do all this because it was pre-determined in his future memories and due to the influence of Ymir's desires and being driven into a corner by the outside world. But at the same time he says that he wanted this and that everything happened because of his will. Both can be true in a universe where past, present and future all play out at the same time.
Basically, everything plays out the way it does because, with how things went, what he knows and who he is as a person, this is what he chose and would always choose to do. He could have chosen to go with some of the other (more uncertain) plans that have been presented, but he chose this because he couldn't accept anything else. When he finds Ramzi getting beat up by those merchants, he tries to defy his future memories and walk away, but he just can't help himself from saving him. He has no outside pressure to do it, it's just who he is as a person, who he was born as.
Yeap. He just can't help his nature. it's the philosophical nietzchean idea of the Eternal Return. The world can't help but to be the way it is, and so is Eren.
@@fratystuff6737 Eren has so much Nietzschean symbolism, it's insane. Causa Sui, Amor Fati (his lack thereof until his conclusion), Slave Morality vs Master Morality, his quote about becoming monsters and the abyss, etc. Eren's journey completely parallels the Zarathustrian journey and all four of its stages: The Camel, The Lion, The Child and Eternal Recurrence.
@@osmorca618 You have a good eye. I never thought someone else would see the parallels between Zaratustra/the Ubermensch and Eren. It is specially evident once Eren becomes the Child, ready to create its new world with its new morals.
It's was all Eren. He wasn't brainwashed, nor was he forced. It was all his choices. The "future" he saw was just his memories. Eren has always been like that. Incredible determination to a goal no matter how seemly unachievable it if with zero plan b's(Remember the training corp and he ODM gear?). He's always all in on everything and rarely considers other options. Everything that happened played out exactly how Eren played it. The future Eren saw, was the future Eren created. Seeing it before you do it changes nothing. Mariko from Shogun "It is you who are trapped. If you seek individual freedom, you'll never be free from yourself".
Compatibilism is aot, Eren isn't a slave to future , He's a slave to his nature his urge of twisted freedom, which in part of season coincides wirh the mores conventional revolutionary type of freedom to the viewer but then its also masterfully executed revelation of that he is more than that I personally thjnk this is a good way to handle the story without going too excessive in eirher direction with the implied messaging and without painting the rumbling as something a sane person could do, Eren was tragic he is no hero, Counter genocide is not heroic rather a tragedy that just our crew atleast managed to live It fits with isayamas end goal of letting our crew live.
Nah. Eren was definitely justified in doing what he had to do. Race relations plummet and the whole world wanted to wipe out him & his people. I don't blame him for doing it. The closest we've had to that in real life is Jean Jacques Dessalines wiping out the French colonizers during the Haitian revolution
In Season 1, Levi told Eren that no one can predict how things will turn out, so all we can do is make the choice we’ll regret the least. In my opinion, Eren chose to give Mikasa and Armin the best chance to live a long life, even though humanity will inevitably destroy itself in the end.
AoT's world is materially deterministic. It doesn't make sense to ask the question of who's in control in AoT, because fundamentally speaking no-one has control in that universe the way people who believe in free will conceptualizes that idea(to whatever degree that makes sense to begin with, in our universe or AoT not withstanding). This is established, literally, in the very first chapter and episode of AoT when Eren awakens after a precognitive dream which we see come to fruition by the end of the very same episode. The fact that the future unfolds in AoT exactly as seen, means that asking the question of whether Eren was "controlled" is incoherent, because no-one is free to act out in ways that don't follow from the environmental causality that constrains them to begin with. The tragic irony of the story, and Eren as a person, is that Eren believes in an ideal that is literally incoherent and impossible within the world in which he lives. Eren wants to be free, but his idea of freedom, is banal and childish - and most importantly, unrealizable. As long as Eren lives in the world, he is constrained by environment and genetics. When he makes a choice, he can only make the choice he's bound to make by the preceding circumstances. Yet, he longs to be free in some absolute and libertarian way. It's this paradox, the fact that he longs for the impossible, that fundamentally breaks him. On the other hand, Eren isn't stupid either. The reason his persona seems so fractured, going one direction and then the other, is precisely because he has to grapple with this philosophical conundrum and the conflicting feelings it creates. It's something we see reflected throughout the show in other characters as well, again from as early on as chapter 1/episode 1 when Eren's mother tells her children to run, yet pleads for them not to leave her when they're out of earshot. You know, because humans can have conflicting feelings and values at the same time. When Eren says he committed to the rumbling because he wanted to, he isn't saying he unilaterally wanted to commit genocide. What he's communicating is the desire to render the world empty of foreign influences so he can be "free" in that naive sense of his. Yet, he does not want to kill human beings so he cries and is distraught by it. He wants Mikasa to be happy, but he also selfishly wants her to cling to his memory forever etc. Not only is this extremely human, it's also great character writing. EDIT: Also, AoT is definitely not a work where character statements should be taken at face value. Again, one could go back to that scene of Carla, or the story's focus on propaganda and the unreliability of history, but in general, AoT is a series where characters, like real people, say what they feel is true to them in the moment. They're not blank statements of the author's truth as far as the events go. The fact that the story spends so much time pitting characters of opposing views against each other, shows us characters changing opinions, being wrong, or saying the opposite of what they're really feeling etc, should blatantly demonstrate that AoT should be read with the responsibility on the reader to unpack the truth, whatever it is, by sifting through the different statements and comparing/contrasting them to the factuals of the events. For example, in the end, Eren and Armin put undue stress on the book as an influencing factor, but if you paid attention, you'd notice that Eren didn't see the book until after he killed to save Mikasa as demonstrated by the absence of the scarf. Or earlier, when Eren reflects on the moment when his father told him he was born free as a toddler. All throughout the show, we have characters say things that don't pan out or align with events, and those statements should never be taken on face value. Moreover, Isayama has stated in interviews, that he was influenced by Game of Thrones for his dialogue, in particular its use of literary irony, which is another show wherein characters are routinely unreliable narrators.
@@tx6723 No. There's nothing to suggest free will can exist in AoT. But please, make an argument if you have one. (Not to mention that compatibalism isn't even a coherent view philosophically to begin with, nor supported by any of our scientific models of the world)
@@fratystuff6737 Exactly this. There's a strong tint of nihilism to the story, with the only silver-lining being the focus on how living, even if in a cruel world where no utopias can ever materialize, is made worth it by the small gestures of love and intimacy shared by people along the way. It seems to me that Isayama is arguing, as Mikasa herself observes, and especially with the ending, that nature and human nature is inexplicably tied to conflict and suffering, but that even so, the beauty of love and companionship, and our obligation to those who suffered for us in the past, gives meaning to enduring the cycle. In a sense, more so than Nietzsche, I'm minded of Camus' line, "one must imagine Sisyphus happy."
@@hian I believe Aot's world is compatibilistic and this can be seen through Eren's conclusion and its visual symbolism. If I were to name Aot's single most important message, I would say it's the acceptance of our 'walls'. The biggest 'wall' is our nature. That is what prevents absolute free will because we cannot control our nature. However, we have the capacity to overcome our nature due to our free will. This duality of determinism and free will is what creates compatibilism. Recall Eren's monologue to Falco in Liberio about those who are pushed versus those who push themselves. This quite literally highlights the duality between predeterminism and free will, as Eren is simultaneously both one who is pushed and who pushes himself. Eren spent his entire life unable to accept the 'walls', he hated them as miserable restrictions that barred him from freedom. Even after he reached the see, the 'walls' followed him because he could never overcome his hatred, disillusionment and lack of fulfillment (and this is why Eren telling Armin: "I know you can make it to the other side of the walls" is so accurate because of Armin's freedom contrasting Eren's). Eren's inability to change himself is key to his character journey, however, we see characters that are foils to Eren overcome their nature and environment. There's no better parallel and foil to Eren than Reiner. We see Reiner take accountability for his actions as he refutes Eren's attempts to absolve him of accountability by blaming external factors. It is through this self-acceptance, that Reiner finds freedom as his character journey focuses on him overcoming his selfish nature and environmental barriers. Kenny's belief about universal enslavement is directly refuted by most of the cast, and even Kenny himself. We see Gabi escape the forest, we see Erwin free himself from the dream that enslaved him, we see Zeke overcome the environment that led him to antinatalism by realizing the beauty in life that he missed, we see Kenny overcome his Machiavellian nature through his selfless final gesture to Levi, we see Grisha find freedom within the walls as he can love his son wholly, we see Keith Shadis overcome his nature as a bystander, we see Jean overcome his selfish nature that sought comfort above all else, etc. And the same applies to Eren through his conclusion. Eren was not forced to commit the rumbling by his environment or by his nature. They absolutely influenced him, but above all else, he himself chose to commit it with his free will because he wanted to. After descending into ignorance and escapism to cope with the impossibility of attaining his desired freedom, he has now accepted the truth of his motivations. The rumbling was a product of Eren’s self-imposed determinism; he invoked determinism from his own free will because he wanted the rumbling due to his desires. Both his nature and nurture are responsible as while his life was set in stone, he was the one who orchestrated it in pursuit of his desires as an extension of his free will. Eren accepts both the limitations and potential of free will, the cruelty and the beauty of human existence through Armin’s existentialism and platonic love (love is the only way to break the cycle after all as Uri and Kruger put it), and as such Eren transcends into the final stage of the Zarathustrian journey: Eternal Recurrence due to his self-acceptance of his sins through Amor Fati (there is so much Nietzschean symbolism in Eren's character). Eren has finally accepted the 'walls', which ironically has granted him freedom, and this is completely relevant as freedom within the walls is the same as the coexistence of free will with determinism. This is symbolized by the tree in the final scene of the series, which is the representation of compatibilism. The roots symbolize attachment to the earth, how humans are grounded to reality and the confines of our nature. However, this does not mean humans are predetermined robots. We still have the freedom to find value in our lives. We choose what we cherish and what we fight for. That is the sole method in which we can rebel against the cruelty of the world. The branches of the tree symbolize our free will. They will constantly grow upwards into the sky forever, as our potential for freedom forever grows and is only bound by our roots to this earth. This is why this tree is the perfect conclusion for Eren as it encapsulates his being perfectly: Eternally grounded to the world by his roots (his deterministic nature), and surrounded by the forest he could never escape (but that he accepts), he continually reaches out for the sky (his free will), towering above any other tree. So Eren's thematic exploration of compatibilism, along with its presence within the entire cast proves that the Aot world operates under compatibilism.
Another fun bit of info, in the manga, the opening scene with Eren sleeping, is what’s at the beginning of the 1st special. So you can imply that erens memories are being sent back to him in that moment, and that’s the dream he’s waking up from. So in a way, he’s trapped in a memory loop, or something like that.
I find it amazing that you dropped this video on the same day these last two episodes are being screened in cinemas. - I think you're confusing the timelines a bit. When Eren is talking to the kid, at that point he only had glimpses of the future that he got from touching Historia. He only got full control of the Founding Titan after touching Ymir in the path and giving her freedom of choice rather than order her like the Royal family had been doing for more than 2000 years. - Eren's motivations for doing the Rumbling isn't just for one thing; it comes from both a logical and emotional motivation. That's realistic. - What do you mean the end justifies the Rumbling? So we should kill everyone else because in hundreds of years they're gonna kill us!? How does anyone compute that? - Meeting Ramzi is one of the things that solidified Erens belief that he can't change the future because in the glimpses he got he saw himself saving Ramzi in the alley and then killing him in the Rumbling. And he tried to let Ramzi get beaten but couldn't because it's in his complicated nature that he can't see someone getting mistreated and not do anything. Which is ironic because of what he does himself. - Mikasa not knowing the Okabe's name is funny because she isn't making a joke; she LITERALLY doesn't know what it is. - I'm glad you understood that Armin didn't mean "I'm glad you killed most of humanity Eren"; he's comforting Eren and sharing responsibility on behalf of humankind by saying it's not only your fault; it's the entire world that let things reach this point over thousands of years. People forget that Eren is Armin's childhood friend, helped and saved him so many times, but for some reason they expect him to hate him completely and forget everything he did for them as a country and for him personally. - I'm glad you understood Ymir's character but I'm sorry to burst your bubble, she doesn't have an ulterior motive; shes in mind a child. She never got to grow because Fritz enslaved her. Eren, the one who have the full control of the Founding Titan, have the ability to control all eldians across time and space and he did send Dina to eat his mother so that his younger self can go through the path that'll lead him to reach the end goal Eren wants to achieve.
About Ymir. Eren saw that the only way to erase the power of the titan is to free Ymir. And to Free Ymir he needed Mikasa to kill him. Ymir wanted someone to show her that it's possible to overcome her feelings toward a person for the greater good. Mikasa did this by killing Eren and then freed Ymir with that action. And basically if Eren influenced Dinah to eat his mom it's because without that Dinah would have eaten Bertholdt and Armin would have died in season 3 because the Colossal would have been Dinah... That's why Eren influenced that part. He created his own motivation for revench and saved Armin from death, so that his best friend survive in the end. About Ymir i personnaly thought that there were not enough scenes on her past to completely understand her. It was too short in my opinion, making the reveal on her "love" a little bit out of nowhere. But overall the concept was very interesting.
Congrats on making it to the end. How fitting that you finished this series around the first anniversary of the anime finale. On Eren wanting this flattening of the world: Yes and No. I think his expectations of the outside was that it was empty, devoid of enemies, humans even. That he and Armin could explore. But he didn't want all this death which included his friends He just didn't find any other solution and that basically just crossed each other. On Eren sending Dina to Carla. It's more to me like a thought experiment if Eren, who is both present in the past and the future, has his own ftee will. On the boy entering Eren's Tree. In the manga, only decades have passed since the new war on Paradis. Here in the anime, at least 2000 years have passed, this is according to Link Horizon's song playing in the background: "To You 2000 Years... Or 20,000 Years From Now." It is theorized that the Hallucinogenia remained in Eren's head because it carried Titan marks even though he aleeady freed Founder Ymir. He is now the new host, implying the cycle could restart again with the boy and his dog.
I recommend a vid by Aleczandxr about Levi killing Zeke and his conclusion, it helped me appreciate it a lot more! Also the manga showed more accurately Levi's emotion in that moment
How time does fly, I feel as if it was just yesterday you posted your first AOT schedule, always looked forward to your videos every week. Thank you for the journey, looking forward to future AOT videos.
The parasite is inspired from the Hallucigenia, one of the first living beings on earth and our far far away ancestor. Yes, we humans and a lot of animals are from him in the real world... In my opinion it emphazize on the fact that this creature is the origin of life itself, like a god that accomplish the wish of people connecting with him. His will is the same as the basic instinct of every life form, to survive. The true hallucigenia in reality can even change forms to adapt. Iseyama gave him the role to be a natural and immortal being existing through ages. It represent nature as Titans that can only work with sunlight... But titans are not the parasite's creation. It's Ymir's. What Zeke told to Armin is that the parasite, Hallucigenia, gave Ymir what she wished in that first contact moment. The parasite, always wanting to survive and expand as every life form, used Ymir in exchange of the power to overcome the fear of death by creating an immortal body and world where death don't even exist. It's trully godlike. This ancient creature is life itself, the nature of life. It's not demonic at all. And the boyin the very end is not in the same situation as Ymir. It means that the parasite can give him a power completely different. The titans were born because of Ymir's wish to have an immortal body. And she wanted to overcome death because of her feelings for King Fritz. That's why when Mikasa erased her will to serve the kind, her wish to overcome death disappear and the power of the titans disappear too...
and also the parasite took shelter inside the tree and it gave the tree the protection in return thats the whole reason why the tree survived even though it was bombed
17:12 - that's an established fact already in the story... The people in Paradis didn't even know what a 'monkey' was (Eren being totally blank in the conversation between -Ymir-Bertholdt-Reiner). It's a series of countless clues, throughout the story ('herring' , 'tin-can', 'monkey', 'coffee (black liquid)', 'aerial', 'tracks' etc ) So there's no way , they would know what an okapi is , so it was a totally natural exchange of dialogue between them where only Annie was from the outside world. With the established context all throughout the story, it doesn't come off as - inserting a joke... It felt totally natural, n all of them were genuinely serious. Connie who usually cracks a pun or a joke at scenarios like these, didn't do one here.
You can see an old man in the ending credits, who is probably Armin. As always, he's the last one to reach the tree after Eren and Mikasa. Also, if you want to see these characters happy, watch AOT junior high! I know it's based off a parody manga, but I go back to it all the time. The sequel manga even has Marley as a rival highschool.😂
16:50 I’m not too sure if it’s meant to be funny. First time I saw it I just took it at face value until someone pointed out that it’s just an animal Mikasa nor any of the island eldians would’ve been privy to. Like with Onyankopon’s skin color. Idk I just take it as like a world building detail like the others that are sprinkled throughout the story.
Eren would like to wipe out the world but he doesn't like killing this many people to do it, but the outside world giving him all the reasons to do the rumbling so he ended up justifying it for himself.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. And Erwin is also my absolute favourite 🥹 It was so nice to see Levi completing not only his own arc, but also Erwin's arc, answering to Erwin's question about "What did they dedicate they hearts for?" and giving the meaning to all the fallen ones by surviving and keeping their memories. Erwin and Levi's voice actors actually discussed that moment on their radio show, and they concluded that Erwin really appreciated it 🤍
Elliot, so glad you decided to watch my favorite show and dissect it and to hear your thoughts. I too love Season 3, part 2 return to Shinganshina the most as well. To me that was quintessential AoT. When i think of AoT my mind always goes to Levi’s eyes widening after Erwin’s arm hits him, with ThanksAT starting up, and he recalls him kneeling before Erwin and Erwin tells him “Levi…arigato” maybe it’s because ThanksAT is my favorite OST too. i love AoT music so much… I fly out in two days to Tokyo for the first time ever. I’ll be watching the Attack on Titan movie in theatre. I’m so excited (I will bring tissues)
Eren simply was resentful at the world for making him and his people suffer so much. He doing the rumbling is exactly what he wanted. He had dreams of becoming an explorer of sorts, surveying new lands and such. He really disliked the idea of a populated world, as it completely contradicted his ideal worldview. He thought they were the righteous human civilization that stud up to adversity. They weren't completely. They were only playing a sick game. The rumbling is like a symbolic vendetta against a world that's completely different from what he wanted, a world that made him suffer, that took away his mather and "uncle" figure. He really wanted to reset the world, flood style but with giants.
They only suffered when they broke the walls this whole concept that they’ve been suffering for so long is insane. At best they only suffered for 10 years. The rest of the world truly are the victim
I believe that Eren wanted the outside world to be free of the injustices that he faced within the walls. That desire manifested into genocide once he kissed Historia's hand. I agree with you that his words shouldn't be taken at face value. In reference to Ymir's unclear motivation, I'm always reminded of Frieda's words right before Ymir's backstory scene. "She's a kind girl who always thinks about others". This unfortunately leads her to have a subservient life because she doesn't know anything else.
Pretty level-headed take on the ending, i thought you'd be one of the people who would hate it. The way i see Eren's character at the end is there's a lot of inner turmoil. On one hand he feels hatred towards the outside world for everything they've done to the eldians, so he wants revenge. But on the other hand he also knows there's a lot of innocent people and he feels horrible for killing them. It's not really one way or the other, there's conlicting emotions within him. He also acknowlegdes that what he's doing is worse than what Reiner and Bertholdt did. Asking what his mom would think. He is painfully self-aware about it. Though above all the reason he does the rumbling is to protect his friends/the island. There's simply no other solution if he doesn't want the island to be annihilated. The outside world is an existential threath to them. So it's a question if he wants to genocide the world or he'll let his own people be genocided. I'm pretty sure most people put in a similar scenario would choose their own people. That's just human nature. People generally love their own kids more than others, they root for their own sports team more than the opposing teams and they go to war for their own country rather than other people's countries. Eren isn't particuarly unique for his decision, most people would do it too. It's just the circumstance he's put in that's unique. When it comes to freedom and his titan ability to see the future. I see it as him choosing the outcome. The events that happened only happened becouse he choose it to be this way. He could've always chosen not to do the rumbling but when push came to shove, this was the path he took becouse it's what he wanted. Let's say he really did not want to do the rumbling, then his memories of the future would've been entirely different. He would've never gotten those memories in the first place. It's paradoxical but he was still free to pick what would happen. His regret was that he couldn't pick a better outcome where no one got hurt. That was out of his capability and he blames himself for it. Also while being able to see the future and still be unable to pick a better timeline, would make you feel trapped in a nightmare. In short, he was ultimately free becouse it was his choice at the end of the day. Armin thanking Eren is a bit more than just him being a supportive friend. Armin is very logical and diplomatic. His way of solving things is through negotiation and understanding. Which we saw with Zeke. Armin is the only one who could've turned Zeke into an ally. Even with all that Armin also came to the same conclusion as Eren. That if they had managed to save the world sooner from the rumbling or not even started it. Then the isalnd and everyone they know/care for would be annihilated. So while Armin doesn't necessarily agree with Eren's choice. Now that it's over, he is grateful to Eren for saving them. Armin basically admitted that there was no other solution to save the eldians, he just couldn't make the decision himself. So he's grateful that Eren did. The scene of Eren making the smiling titan eat his mom is very controversial. I'm pretty sure it was Eren who did it becouse he said it himself. In order for everything in the series to happen and lead Eren to save the island with the rumbling. His mom had to die in order to set it all off. Let's say he didn't make the titan eat her and they managed to save her. She would only be saved until the walls got breached again and they would all be annihilated anyway. So she wouldn't be alive many years either way. Atleast by making the titan eat her that moment, it would lead to all the others being saved. Though that doesn't make it any less painful to Eren, it's just another layer of suffering being put in this position. Imagine you had to kill your mom in order to save your country, that's basically what Eren experienced. This also heavily implies that Eren was controlling it when it showed up at the most convenient time possible in season 2. Making it eat Hannes as well, in order to trigger the coordinate ability. Some critics would probably say the timing here was contrived writing. But now it makes perfect sense. One thing i've never seen anyone else mention is how Levi knew that Ackermann's were immune to the titan gas? It was a question if Ackermann's could even turn into titans but it was never outright confirmed. Even Kenny talked about becoming a titan. So how would Levi even know this when the centipede is oozing gas? The only explanation is that Levi actually did drink the wine together with his recruits back in the forest. So he knew becouse he was the only one that didn't turn. Just a bit of fun trivia.
God like power in the hands of an “idiot” (human) can go really really bad. But yeah I think that getting a 4 dimentional look at reality can drive anyone mad
If a human inflict that pain and suffering as a part of a “machine”/method or without being a close participant of those actions, is really common that they just participate. Mass murder doesnt care for the body count, usually the ones that observe these attocities from another POV are the ones horrified, when you start questioning those actions is that guilt comes for a normal person that just looked the other way as a cope mechanism.
Eren Kruger tells us the answer at the end of S3. The only truth is there is no truth. The backbone of the plot rests on secrets and lies, so it’s truly fitting we only get enough answers to satisfy the events. I see the genetic legacy of Ymir as an allegory for intergenerational trauma. Kruger tells Grisha his childhood trauma, Grisha has Fay, Eren has his mother… the Attack Titan comes to them all. I think Eren cannot separate himself from the Attack Titan. He is conceived by Grisha with it in him. In the paths, his goading of Grisha is coupled with a change in disposition, much like Frieda gets when struggling with Grisha’s pleas. We are only seeing Eren because Eren and the Titan are the same; he “was born into this world”. He repeats the words Kruger said on the wall, almost like a mnemonic trigger. When Eren stops to watch himself wrap the scarf around Mikasa, I actually think he’s steeling himself to follow through. I think the reason he says he “chose this” is because knowing Ymir is an eternal slave is something he can never allow. He wouldn’t have killed those men but for the fact they were enslaving a girl. He didn’t even know her. This is the moment that foreshadows the ending. Eren cannot be a bystander to someone’s enslavement. That’s why the Mikasa scarf memory is important. Eren is wrapped around Ymir the way his scarf is wrapped around Mikasa. Eren chose to free her and end the Titans, the rumbling is the unavoidable consequence of relinquishing the power back to Ymir. Ymir is just 2,000 years of rage now that she has the Attack Titan part of her spirit “the rage of all humanity” wasn’t it? (Mikasa first seeing the Attack Titan) Ymir is allowed to reconnect with her rage, but Mikasa is the only one who can bring her peace because she loves Eren and he saved her. Ending his suffering ends hers, allows her to be at rest.
I think that it’s hat happened came about as a combination of eren’s nature of wanting to fight against his foes no matter how ruthlessly as well as Ymir’s own desire for freedom and his disorientation from experiencing time differently from other people. Eren is a product of everything that came before him, and i think that it’s purposeful that it’s difficult to tell if it’s him or Ymir in control. I feel like eren thinks the same way.
Great comments on the ending. This series will live in my brain rent free probably for the rest of my life and it's become (quite unfairly) the bar against which I compare most stories. A few notes: - The "okapi" moment is meant to mirror the "monkey" moment in season two, which was a way to convey that they, people from Paradis, have never seen one or even heard the word. It was a small moment of levity but the back and forth over "what the hell is an okapi" was warranted. In all honesty I didn't even know it was a word either. - You're right that the ending doesn't explain everything, but I really don't mind and kind of prefer it that way. From her inception, Ymir is supposed to be kind of a mythological character more than a person, which is why I find Eren telling her that she's not a god or a demon but a human being so affecting. Many details about AoT's supernatural logistics are left unresolved which, again, I think works for the best. Questions stimulate, they keep us thinking. - Yes, the final season was different and more plot driven than character driven. I tend to like that more in stories, specially when the cast and the themes grow so much. I don't think a story that deals with themes like war and morality on a global scale and focuses on the cast feelings is doing it's homework.
The only issue with your Eren theory about free will is that you’re assuming he had free will before. Free will is just an illusion. The only thing that changed when he kissed Historia’s hand is that he got new information. Everyone grows as a person because they have new information. People are a combination of nature and nurture. Your environment influences the information you take in while your biology influences how you perceive the information you take in. Neither of these things do you have control over. Therefore that’s why the end result of the whole story and a major theme throughout the show has been that humans are cyclical creatures by nature. Eren chose the path the broke from the cycle the most, but still knew he could never escape it entirely.
8:43 I don't know if I buy the Ymir influence interpretation. Eren's way of thinking is just common reactionary mentality. A traumatized person gaining the power and lashing out. So his action are understandable. It may not be moral but believable.
I don't like everything about the finale, but with time I got to apreciate that the ending was basically a perfect example of absurdism theory. Maybe even the greatest example in pop culture ever.
Actually, Eren (with the full power of the Founding Titan) DID purposely send the Dina Fritz Titan away from Bertholdt and towards his mother in order to kickstart his entire journey in the first place by motivating him to want to slaughter all Titans. It was one of the biggest reveals in AOT. That was all Eren, and Ymir didn’t influence him to do that. You’ll want to look into the entire time loop (tons of YT vids, etc. that explain it), it’s a giant mind fuck.
@@firesupotree For a wielder of the Founding Titan, the whole 2000 year titan-timeline's past-present-future is laid out flat. They're able to perceive it all at once. This is a basic scientific concept (Past, present and future all coexist in spacetime and are interconnected) . In AoT, the Paths realm is how this is able to manifest. One of the founding titans ability is to control pure titans. So, for someone, for whom time is laid out flat, they can control pure titans at any point in time, but the restriction is - it can only be done in a manner to shape the 1 (one) past-present-future. In short, Dina Titan in ep-1 was controlled by Founder-Eren who gained access to the founding titan power later in time. But Founder Eren can't chose to not do this action -- bcoz if he chooses to save his mother, it would lead to a future where Eren does not get the founding titan. - (key reason - it is news of Carla's death that changes Grisha's mind & causes him to surrender his titans to Eren, earlier he pleaded to Zeke to stop Eren ). So, he has no choice. For that future moment to exist, the previous past moment shud be the way it is. That's why Founder Eren feels his heads all messed up, bcoz he experiences all past-present-future at the same time & can't change moments of the history even if he has the ability to (a restrictive ability - to prevent paradox situation). Instance #2 - Founder Eren saves Eren & the scouts in Season 2 ending sure death situation. Founder Eren again controls the Dina Titan and moves it towards Eren (leading to Hannes' death). This was necessary for Eren & other to not die, with Eren being able to touch Dina Titan & use temporary titan control ability to save themselves.
There is no interpretation theory for Attack on Titan’s ending, because Isayama blatantly said it explicitly who he made Eren’s character: He has always been a childlike mindset and he never changed. He is selfish, and always wanted the freedom he envisioned in Armin’s book, which is why Isayama portrayed him as a child here and there. He admitted to Armin he did it all to himself - the Rumbling. But his path he chose led him to end the Titan Curse. It ended exactly how it should end. It was perfect.
There are a lot of interpretive elements in the ending. "I don't know why, but I always wanted to" + "Eren, you're free" is the single most complex scene in the series and it has a lot of potential interpretiveness to it. Even the original ending with whether or not the ship with the alliance would be destroyed, and the extra pages ending with the boy and the tree are both interpretive too. You're right about Eren though.
@@osmorca618 i hate when people say eren telling 'i dont know why' is out of place because HE LITERALLY SAID THE EXACT THING BACK IN S3 EP13 TO ARMIN 'I DONT KNOW WHY but the thought of getting back my freedom gives me strength'
![The Ravings of a Mad Woman | Attack On Titan Part 4.2 [War for Paradis Arc]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ho339JVIYN4/mqdefault.jpg)
Sad that these AoT videos are over but it’s been a fun ride ! Can’t wait for arcane and what you watch next
Good analysis ! But you forget one major thing on what Eren meant by the world in Armin's book. The world in Armin's books is empty, without civilisation nor society. The thing is that since the very begenning of the show, Armin's book was his dream and his main goal. But what he saw in this empty world is a world different from inside the walls. Basically Eren wanted to escape civilisation and society because absolute freedom and civilisation are in complete contradiction. No matter the political system in place, there are always laws, morals limits and others chains against absolute freedom. Eren wanted to grasp absolute freedom, a conceptual ideal of freedom that humans beings can't obtain by nature. He wanted to overcome his human nature and grasping his impossible thing that is freedom. If we are looking the world a realistic way, no living beings are absolutely free. As free will exist, freedom don't. Freedom means that you can't be bound by any options, and everything is possible. In Eren's case, Eren wanted to create a world where everything was possible. And it was not possible with civilisations. That's why he wanted to erase humanity outside the world. he wanted to erase civilisations, society, politics, morals... Every chains that humans created. He wanted humans to expand and venture on this empty land where everything could have been possible. And since everyone is a slave to something, Eren was ironically a slave to this ideal of freedom. That's the important thing you missed in season 3. Everyone is a slave to a personnal desire, a desire that lead us no matter what. And for Eren it was freedom.
That said, and if may be it clarify the ideal of freedom Eren has, i agree that Eren is not purely in control. But he is absolutely NOT influenced by Ymir. Understand that the power of the Attack Titan is enough to manipulate him. Indeed, Eren is bound to his futur because he can't overcome his desire and because his power completely messed up his minds. There are no Ymir influence in that, only the fact that Eren was manipulated by his own future. The power of the Attack Titan means that he can't manipulate past Attack Titans. Eren from the furure manipulated Eren in the past so that he can become what he is meant to. It's a paradox when Eren created his own destiny but was a slave to it in the same time. Since everything is determined, Eren is just bound to himself. That's what tell the concept of destiny. Even if every choices are or choices, they are all already written. In this case Eren wrote all of his choices from the future, making him a slave to his future self. He was not influenced by Ymir, but by himself.
EXACTLY!
He's definitely not in full control because he no longer was able to differentiate between past, present and future. I think we underestimate how disorienting it would be to have your memories mixed with what you're seeing in the present, with what you know of the future. Especially when the concept of memory itself in AOT is unfixed in the time experienced by Eren. Think about it: we have the illusion of being free, precisely because we don't know what the future holds. But if the future is unchanging, then we will never have freedom of trying something different knowing that our actions are a factor in the future.
Plus, the point of the island being destroyed isn't that we should just give up on peace because "what's the point". The point is, even if conflicts repeat itself, that we should still focus on escaping the forest. If you look too far into the horizon like Eren (and Zeke) did, you will miss the conch shell right beneath your feet (Armin hasn't). I believe the conclusion is more optimistic than what the surface of the conclusion indicates. Also, think about the differences between the boy and original Ymir. At least on rewatch, the conclusion was better appreciated for me.
Few nuances about your initial line
"He's definitely not in full control because he no longer was able to differentiate between past, present and future"...
I wouldn't say he is in not in control of his actions... & i'll explain my version of why he feels messed up in the head...
What he means by that - the Founder's power is immense (to be able to influence titans & memories across P,P,F), but at the same time it's Restrictive as in - he can't chose to not do certain actions... For eg. to be at the position he is (having access to the Founder's power) - (a) Carla had to die (for Eren's sake & for Grisha's sake - for Grisha to feel vengeful & give the titans to Eren)... (b) Hannes had to come across DinaTitan in 2x12, bcoz he had to make DinaTitan touch Eren - for Eren & the scouts to save themselves & not die that day.
- Even with immense power in his hands, he has only 1 choice in these points of time to shape the history & even if he wishes to say, save his mother, the power won't allow that, coz it would break down the history (since P,P,F - is all laid out at once)... that's why it messes up his head.
-
- Founder Eren is in control, but he's helpless and choice-less in scenarios like these. And all the choices that led to path till getting access to are all driven by his will and choices, even if he's seen ahead, it wouldn't change who he is.
- As to all your other points, totally agree.
Perfect comment, you saved me from writing it and wasting so much time 😅😅😅
Like I said in the previous video, this result is paradoxically what Eren wanted and didn't want all at the same time.
He felt like he had no choice and was forced to do all this because it was pre-determined in his future memories and due to the influence of Ymir's desires and being driven into a corner by the outside world.
But at the same time he says that he wanted this and that everything happened because of his will.
Both can be true in a universe where past, present and future all play out at the same time.
Basically, everything plays out the way it does because, with how things went, what he knows and who he is as a person, this is what he chose and would always choose to do. He could have chosen to go with some of the other (more uncertain) plans that have been presented, but he chose this because he couldn't accept anything else. When he finds Ramzi getting beat up by those merchants, he tries to defy his future memories and walk away, but he just can't help himself from saving him. He has no outside pressure to do it, it's just who he is as a person, who he was born as.
@@tenroku8751 Very well put! You nailed it.
Yeap. He just can't help his nature. it's the philosophical nietzchean idea of the Eternal Return. The world can't help but to be the way it is, and so is Eren.
@@fratystuff6737 Eren has so much Nietzschean symbolism, it's insane. Causa Sui, Amor Fati (his lack thereof until his conclusion), Slave Morality vs Master Morality, his quote about becoming monsters and the abyss, etc. Eren's journey completely parallels the Zarathustrian journey and all four of its stages: The Camel, The Lion, The Child and Eternal Recurrence.
@@osmorca618 You have a good eye. I never thought someone else would see the parallels between Zaratustra/the Ubermensch and Eren. It is specially evident once Eren becomes the Child, ready to create its new world with its new morals.
It's was all Eren. He wasn't brainwashed, nor was he forced. It was all his choices. The "future" he saw was just his memories. Eren has always been like that. Incredible determination to a goal no matter how seemly unachievable it if with zero plan b's(Remember the training corp and he ODM gear?). He's always all in on everything and rarely considers other options.
Everything that happened played out exactly how Eren played it. The future Eren saw, was the future Eren created. Seeing it before you do it changes nothing.
Mariko from Shogun "It is you who are trapped. If you seek individual freedom, you'll never be free from yourself".
I like your interpretation of Ymir and her state of mind! Very nuanced take
We are finally here 😢
I have so thoroughly enjoyed watching your journey through the series ❤
Compatibilism is aot, Eren isn't a slave to future , He's a slave to his nature his urge of twisted freedom, which in part of season coincides wirh the mores conventional revolutionary type of freedom to the viewer but then its also masterfully executed revelation of that he is more than that
I personally thjnk this is a good way to handle the story without going too excessive in eirher direction with the implied messaging and without painting the rumbling as something a sane person could do, Eren was tragic he is no hero, Counter genocide is not heroic rather a tragedy that just our crew atleast managed to live It fits with isayamas end goal of letting our crew live.
Agreed and his inability to compromise and accept that loss is a part of a life
Nah. Eren was definitely justified in doing what he had to do. Race relations plummet and the whole world wanted to wipe out him & his people. I don't blame him for doing it. The closest we've had to that in real life is Jean Jacques Dessalines wiping out the French colonizers during the Haitian revolution
@@GAZAMAN93Xyou realize he killed more eldians on paradise and outside of paradise then anyone else right ?
"Humanity will never stop fighting itself until it shrinks to a size of one or fewer" - Erwin Smith
In Season 1, Levi told Eren that no one can predict how things will turn out, so all we can do is make the choice we’ll regret the least. In my opinion, Eren chose to give Mikasa and Armin the best chance to live a long life, even though humanity will inevitably destroy itself in the end.
I’m so glad you loved this story ❤it is truly a special experience
AoT's world is materially deterministic. It doesn't make sense to ask the question of who's in control in AoT, because fundamentally speaking no-one has control in that universe the way people who believe in free will conceptualizes that idea(to whatever degree that makes sense to begin with, in our universe or AoT not withstanding).
This is established, literally, in the very first chapter and episode of AoT when Eren awakens after a precognitive dream which we see come to fruition by the end of the very same episode.
The fact that the future unfolds in AoT exactly as seen, means that asking the question of whether Eren was "controlled" is incoherent, because no-one is free to act out in ways that don't follow from the environmental causality that constrains them to begin with.
The tragic irony of the story, and Eren as a person, is that Eren believes in an ideal that is literally incoherent and impossible within the world in which he lives. Eren wants to be free, but his idea of freedom, is banal and childish - and most importantly, unrealizable.
As long as Eren lives in the world, he is constrained by environment and genetics. When he makes a choice, he can only make the choice he's bound to make by the preceding circumstances. Yet, he longs to be free in some absolute and libertarian way.
It's this paradox, the fact that he longs for the impossible, that fundamentally breaks him. On the other hand, Eren isn't stupid either.
The reason his persona seems so fractured, going one direction and then the other, is precisely because he has to grapple with this philosophical conundrum and the conflicting feelings it creates. It's something we see reflected throughout the show in other characters as well, again from as early on as chapter 1/episode 1 when Eren's mother tells her children to run, yet pleads for them not to leave her when they're out of earshot. You know, because humans can have conflicting feelings and values at the same time.
When Eren says he committed to the rumbling because he wanted to, he isn't saying he unilaterally wanted to commit genocide. What he's communicating is the desire to render the world empty of foreign influences so he can be "free" in that naive sense of his. Yet, he does not want to kill human beings so he cries and is distraught by it. He wants Mikasa to be happy, but he also selfishly wants her to cling to his memory forever etc.
Not only is this extremely human, it's also great character writing.
EDIT:
Also, AoT is definitely not a work where character statements should be taken at face value. Again, one could go back to that scene of Carla, or the story's focus on propaganda and the unreliability of history, but in general, AoT is a series where characters, like real people, say what they feel is true to them in the moment. They're not blank statements of the author's truth as far as the events go. The fact that the story spends so much time pitting characters of opposing views against each other, shows us characters changing opinions, being wrong, or saying the opposite of what they're really feeling etc, should blatantly demonstrate that AoT should be read with the responsibility on the reader to unpack the truth, whatever it is, by sifting through the different statements and comparing/contrasting them to the factuals of the events.
For example, in the end, Eren and Armin put undue stress on the book as an influencing factor, but if you paid attention, you'd notice that Eren didn't see the book until after he killed to save Mikasa as demonstrated by the absence of the scarf. Or earlier, when Eren reflects on the moment when his father told him he was born free as a toddler.
All throughout the show, we have characters say things that don't pan out or align with events, and those statements should never be taken on face value.
Moreover, Isayama has stated in interviews, that he was influenced by Game of Thrones for his dialogue, in particular its use of literary irony, which is another show wherein characters are routinely unreliable narrators.
It's compatibilism
@@tx6723
No. There's nothing to suggest free will can exist in AoT. But please, make an argument if you have one.
(Not to mention that compatibalism isn't even a coherent view philosophically to begin with, nor supported by any of our scientific models of the world)
Very well put. I like to see it as the nietzchean Eternal Return. Also I do believe Eren was undoubtedly resentful at the world, but it is messy.
@@fratystuff6737
Exactly this. There's a strong tint of nihilism to the story, with the only silver-lining being the focus on how living, even if in a cruel world where no utopias can ever materialize, is made worth it by the small gestures of love and intimacy shared by people along the way.
It seems to me that Isayama is arguing, as Mikasa herself observes, and especially with the ending, that nature and human nature is inexplicably tied to conflict and suffering, but that even so, the beauty of love and companionship, and our obligation to those who suffered for us in the past, gives meaning to enduring the cycle.
In a sense, more so than Nietzsche, I'm minded of Camus' line, "one must imagine Sisyphus happy."
@@hian I believe Aot's world is compatibilistic and this can be seen through Eren's conclusion and its visual symbolism. If I were to name Aot's single most important message, I would say it's the acceptance of our 'walls'. The biggest 'wall' is our nature. That is what prevents absolute free will because we cannot control our nature. However, we have the capacity to overcome our nature due to our free will. This duality of determinism and free will is what creates compatibilism. Recall Eren's monologue to Falco in Liberio about those who are pushed versus those who push themselves. This quite literally highlights the duality between predeterminism and free will, as Eren is simultaneously both one who is pushed and who pushes himself.
Eren spent his entire life unable to accept the 'walls', he hated them as miserable restrictions that barred him from freedom. Even after he reached the see, the 'walls' followed him because he could never overcome his hatred, disillusionment and lack of fulfillment (and this is why Eren telling Armin: "I know you can make it to the other side of the walls" is so accurate because of Armin's freedom contrasting Eren's). Eren's inability to change himself is key to his character journey, however, we see characters that are foils to Eren overcome their nature and environment. There's no better parallel and foil to Eren than Reiner. We see Reiner take accountability for his actions as he refutes Eren's attempts to absolve him of accountability by blaming external factors. It is through this self-acceptance, that Reiner finds freedom as his character journey focuses on him overcoming his selfish nature and environmental barriers. Kenny's belief about universal enslavement is directly refuted by most of the cast, and even Kenny himself. We see Gabi escape the forest, we see Erwin free himself from the dream that enslaved him, we see Zeke overcome the environment that led him to antinatalism by realizing the beauty in life that he missed, we see Kenny overcome his Machiavellian nature through his selfless final gesture to Levi, we see Grisha find freedom within the walls as he can love his son wholly, we see Keith Shadis overcome his nature as a bystander, we see Jean overcome his selfish nature that sought comfort above all else, etc. And the same applies to Eren through his conclusion. Eren was not forced to commit the rumbling by his environment or by his nature. They absolutely influenced him, but above all else, he himself chose to commit it with his free will because he wanted to.
After descending into ignorance and escapism to cope with the impossibility of attaining his desired freedom, he has now accepted the truth of his motivations. The rumbling was a product of Eren’s self-imposed determinism; he invoked determinism from his own free will because he wanted the rumbling due to his desires. Both his nature and nurture are responsible as while his life was set in stone, he was the one who orchestrated it in pursuit of his desires as an extension of his free will. Eren accepts both the limitations and potential of free will, the cruelty and the beauty of human existence through Armin’s existentialism and platonic love (love is the only way to break the cycle after all as Uri and Kruger put it), and as such Eren transcends into the final stage of the Zarathustrian journey: Eternal Recurrence due to his self-acceptance of his sins through Amor Fati (there is so much Nietzschean symbolism in Eren's character). Eren has finally accepted the 'walls', which ironically has granted him freedom, and this is completely relevant as freedom within the walls is the same as the coexistence of free will with determinism. This is symbolized by the tree in the final scene of the series, which is the representation of compatibilism. The roots symbolize attachment to the earth, how humans are grounded to reality and the confines of our nature. However, this does not mean humans are predetermined robots. We still have the freedom to find value in our lives. We choose what we cherish and what we fight for. That is the sole method in which we can rebel against the cruelty of the world. The branches of the tree symbolize our free will. They will constantly grow upwards into the sky forever, as our potential for freedom forever grows and is only bound by our roots to this earth. This is why this tree is the perfect conclusion for Eren as it encapsulates his being perfectly: Eternally grounded to the world by his roots (his deterministic nature), and surrounded by the forest he could never escape (but that he accepts), he continually reaches out for the sky (his free will), towering above any other tree. So Eren's thematic exploration of compatibilism, along with its presence within the entire cast proves that the Aot world operates under compatibilism.
Another fun bit of info, in the manga, the opening scene with Eren sleeping, is what’s at the beginning of the 1st special. So you can imply that erens memories are being sent back to him in that moment, and that’s the dream he’s waking up from. So in a way, he’s trapped in a memory loop, or something like that.
I find it amazing that you dropped this video on the same day these last two episodes are being screened in cinemas.
- I think you're confusing the timelines a bit. When Eren is talking to the kid, at that point he only had glimpses of the future that he got from touching Historia. He only got full control of the Founding Titan after touching Ymir in the path and giving her freedom of choice rather than order her like the Royal family had been doing for more than 2000 years.
- Eren's motivations for doing the Rumbling isn't just for one thing; it comes from both a logical and emotional motivation. That's realistic.
- What do you mean the end justifies the Rumbling? So we should kill everyone else because in hundreds of years they're gonna kill us!? How does anyone compute that?
- Meeting Ramzi is one of the things that solidified Erens belief that he can't change the future because in the glimpses he got he saw himself saving Ramzi in the alley and then killing him in the Rumbling. And he tried to let Ramzi get beaten but couldn't because it's in his complicated nature that he can't see someone getting mistreated and not do anything. Which is ironic because of what he does himself.
- Mikasa not knowing the Okabe's name is funny because she isn't making a joke; she LITERALLY doesn't know what it is.
- I'm glad you understood that Armin didn't mean "I'm glad you killed most of humanity Eren"; he's comforting Eren and sharing responsibility on behalf of humankind by saying it's not only your fault; it's the entire world that let things reach this point over thousands of years. People forget that Eren is Armin's childhood friend, helped and saved him so many times, but for some reason they expect him to hate him completely and forget everything he did for them as a country and for him personally.
- I'm glad you understood Ymir's character but I'm sorry to burst your bubble, she doesn't have an ulterior motive; shes in mind a child. She never got to grow because Fritz enslaved her. Eren, the one who have the full control of the Founding Titan, have the ability to control all eldians across time and space and he did send Dina to eat his mother so that his younger self can go through the path that'll lead him to reach the end goal Eren wants to achieve.
About Ymir. Eren saw that the only way to erase the power of the titan is to free Ymir. And to Free Ymir he needed Mikasa to kill him. Ymir wanted someone to show her that it's possible to overcome her feelings toward a person for the greater good. Mikasa did this by killing Eren and then freed Ymir with that action. And basically if Eren influenced Dinah to eat his mom it's because without that Dinah would have eaten Bertholdt and Armin would have died in season 3 because the Colossal would have been Dinah... That's why Eren influenced that part. He created his own motivation for revench and saved Armin from death, so that his best friend survive in the end. About Ymir i personnaly thought that there were not enough scenes on her past to completely understand her. It was too short in my opinion, making the reveal on her "love" a little bit out of nowhere. But overall the concept was very interesting.
omg it’s here!!
Congrats on making it to the end. How fitting that you finished this series around the first anniversary of the anime finale.
On Eren wanting this flattening of the world: Yes and No. I think his expectations of the outside was that it was empty, devoid of enemies, humans even. That he and Armin could explore. But he didn't want all this death which included his friends He just didn't find any other solution and that basically just crossed each other.
On Eren sending Dina to Carla. It's more to me like a thought experiment if Eren, who is both present in the past and the future, has his own ftee will.
On the boy entering Eren's Tree. In the manga, only decades have passed since the new war on Paradis. Here in the anime, at least 2000 years have passed, this is according to Link Horizon's song playing in the background: "To You 2000 Years... Or 20,000 Years From Now." It is theorized that the Hallucinogenia remained in Eren's head because it carried Titan marks even though he aleeady freed Founder Ymir. He is now the new host, implying the cycle could restart again with the boy and his dog.
I believe Eren did make that Titan eat his mother - if you remember, it completely ignored Bertholdt
I think eren is more of a slave to his desires than anything else. The future wouldn't have happened if eren didn't give in at all.
I recommend a vid by Aleczandxr about Levi killing Zeke and his conclusion, it helped me appreciate it a lot more!
Also the manga showed more accurately Levi's emotion in that moment
How time does fly, I feel as if it was just yesterday you posted your first AOT schedule, always looked forward to your videos every week. Thank you for the journey, looking forward to future AOT videos.
The parasite is inspired from the Hallucigenia, one of the first living beings on earth and our far far away ancestor. Yes, we humans and a lot of animals are from him in the real world... In my opinion it emphazize on the fact that this creature is the origin of life itself, like a god that accomplish the wish of people connecting with him. His will is the same as the basic instinct of every life form, to survive. The true hallucigenia in reality can even change forms to adapt. Iseyama gave him the role to be a natural and immortal being existing through ages. It represent nature as Titans that can only work with sunlight... But titans are not the parasite's creation. It's Ymir's. What Zeke told to Armin is that the parasite, Hallucigenia, gave Ymir what she wished in that first contact moment. The parasite, always wanting to survive and expand as every life form, used Ymir in exchange of the power to overcome the fear of death by creating an immortal body and world where death don't even exist. It's trully godlike. This ancient creature is life itself, the nature of life. It's not demonic at all. And the boyin the very end is not in the same situation as Ymir. It means that the parasite can give him a power completely different. The titans were born because of Ymir's wish to have an immortal body. And she wanted to overcome death because of her feelings for King Fritz. That's why when Mikasa erased her will to serve the kind, her wish to overcome death disappear and the power of the titans disappear too...
and also the parasite took shelter inside the tree and it gave the tree the protection in return
thats the whole reason why the tree survived even though it was bombed
17:12 - that's an established fact already in the story... The people in Paradis didn't even know what a 'monkey' was (Eren being totally blank in the conversation between -Ymir-Bertholdt-Reiner). It's a series of countless clues, throughout the story ('herring' , 'tin-can', 'monkey', 'coffee (black liquid)', 'aerial', 'tracks' etc )
So there's no way , they would know what an okapi is , so it was a totally natural exchange of dialogue between them where only Annie was from the outside world. With the established context all throughout the story, it doesn't come off as - inserting a joke... It felt totally natural, n all of them were genuinely serious. Connie who usually cracks a pun or a joke at scenarios like these, didn't do one here.
You can see an old man in the ending credits, who is probably Armin. As always, he's the last one to reach the tree after Eren and Mikasa.
Also, if you want to see these characters happy, watch AOT junior high! I know it's based off a parody manga, but I go back to it all the time. The sequel manga even has Marley as a rival highschool.😂
16:50 I’m not too sure if it’s meant to be funny. First time I saw it I just took it at face value until someone pointed out that it’s just an animal Mikasa nor any of the island eldians would’ve been privy to. Like with Onyankopon’s skin color. Idk I just take it as like a world building detail like the others that are sprinkled throughout the story.
it was kinda comedic too, but yeah it makes perfect sense she doesn't know the animal
Eren would like to wipe out the world but he doesn't like killing this many people to do it, but the outside world giving him all the reasons to do the rumbling so he ended up justifying it for himself.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. And Erwin is also my absolute favourite 🥹
It was so nice to see Levi completing not only his own arc, but also Erwin's arc, answering to Erwin's question about "What did they dedicate they hearts for?" and giving the meaning to all the fallen ones by surviving and keeping their memories. Erwin and Levi's voice actors actually discussed that moment on their radio show, and they concluded that Erwin really appreciated it 🤍
Elliot, so glad you decided to watch my favorite show and dissect it and to hear your thoughts. I too love Season 3, part 2 return to Shinganshina the most as well. To me that was quintessential AoT. When i think of AoT my mind always goes to Levi’s eyes widening after Erwin’s arm hits him, with ThanksAT starting up, and he recalls him kneeling before Erwin and Erwin tells him “Levi…arigato” maybe it’s because ThanksAT is my favorite OST too. i love AoT music so much…
I fly out in two days to Tokyo for the first time ever. I’ll be watching the Attack on Titan movie in theatre. I’m so excited (I will bring tissues)
Eren simply was resentful at the world for making him and his people suffer so much. He doing the rumbling is exactly what he wanted. He had dreams of becoming an explorer of sorts, surveying new lands and such. He really disliked the idea of a populated world, as it completely contradicted his ideal worldview. He thought they were the righteous human civilization that stud up to adversity. They weren't completely. They were only playing a sick game.
The rumbling is like a symbolic vendetta against a world that's completely different from what he wanted, a world that made him suffer, that took away his mather and "uncle" figure. He really wanted to reset the world, flood style but with giants.
They only suffered when they broke the walls this whole concept that they’ve been suffering for so long is insane. At best they only suffered for 10 years. The rest of the world truly are the victim
@@gauthierkasongo180 exactly
the world literally suffered for 2000 years
No more walls, no more armbands. And a young Ackermann to keep the memories of Eren's story forever.
I believe that Eren wanted the outside world to be free of the injustices that he faced within the walls. That desire manifested into genocide once he kissed Historia's hand. I agree with you that his words shouldn't be taken at face value. In reference to Ymir's unclear motivation, I'm always reminded of Frieda's words right before Ymir's backstory scene. "She's a kind girl who always thinks about others". This unfortunately leads her to have a subservient life because she doesn't know anything else.
27:55 except for her last scene with Mikasa, where she is finally shown as an adult before disappearing
Pretty level-headed take on the ending, i thought you'd be one of the people who would hate it. The way i see Eren's character at the end is there's a lot of inner turmoil. On one hand he feels hatred towards the outside world for everything they've done to the eldians, so he wants revenge. But on the other hand he also knows there's a lot of innocent people and he feels horrible for killing them. It's not really one way or the other, there's conlicting emotions within him. He also acknowlegdes that what he's doing is worse than what Reiner and Bertholdt did. Asking what his mom would think. He is painfully self-aware about it.
Though above all the reason he does the rumbling is to protect his friends/the island. There's simply no other solution if he doesn't want the island to be annihilated. The outside world is an existential threath to them. So it's a question if he wants to genocide the world or he'll let his own people be genocided. I'm pretty sure most people put in a similar scenario would choose their own people. That's just human nature. People generally love their own kids more than others, they root for their own sports team more than the opposing teams and they go to war for their own country rather than other people's countries. Eren isn't particuarly unique for his decision, most people would do it too. It's just the circumstance he's put in that's unique.
When it comes to freedom and his titan ability to see the future. I see it as him choosing the outcome. The events that happened only happened becouse he choose it to be this way. He could've always chosen not to do the rumbling but when push came to shove, this was the path he took becouse it's what he wanted. Let's say he really did not want to do the rumbling, then his memories of the future would've been entirely different. He would've never gotten those memories in the first place. It's paradoxical but he was still free to pick what would happen. His regret was that he couldn't pick a better outcome where no one got hurt. That was out of his capability and he blames himself for it. Also while being able to see the future and still be unable to pick a better timeline, would make you feel trapped in a nightmare. In short, he was ultimately free becouse it was his choice at the end of the day.
Armin thanking Eren is a bit more than just him being a supportive friend. Armin is very logical and diplomatic. His way of solving things is through negotiation and understanding. Which we saw with Zeke. Armin is the only one who could've turned Zeke into an ally. Even with all that Armin also came to the same conclusion as Eren. That if they had managed to save the world sooner from the rumbling or not even started it. Then the isalnd and everyone they know/care for would be annihilated. So while Armin doesn't necessarily agree with Eren's choice. Now that it's over, he is grateful to Eren for saving them. Armin basically admitted that there was no other solution to save the eldians, he just couldn't make the decision himself. So he's grateful that Eren did.
The scene of Eren making the smiling titan eat his mom is very controversial. I'm pretty sure it was Eren who did it becouse he said it himself. In order for everything in the series to happen and lead Eren to save the island with the rumbling. His mom had to die in order to set it all off. Let's say he didn't make the titan eat her and they managed to save her. She would only be saved until the walls got breached again and they would all be annihilated anyway. So she wouldn't be alive many years either way. Atleast by making the titan eat her that moment, it would lead to all the others being saved. Though that doesn't make it any less painful to Eren, it's just another layer of suffering being put in this position. Imagine you had to kill your mom in order to save your country, that's basically what Eren experienced.
This also heavily implies that Eren was controlling it when it showed up at the most convenient time possible in season 2. Making it eat Hannes as well, in order to trigger the coordinate ability. Some critics would probably say the timing here was contrived writing. But now it makes perfect sense.
One thing i've never seen anyone else mention is how Levi knew that Ackermann's were immune to the titan gas? It was a question if Ackermann's could even turn into titans but it was never outright confirmed. Even Kenny talked about becoming a titan. So how would Levi even know this when the centipede is oozing gas? The only explanation is that Levi actually did drink the wine together with his recruits back in the forest. So he knew becouse he was the only one that didn't turn. Just a bit of fun trivia.
Mikasa doesnt know what an okapi is because she lives in the walls so thats why she couldnt identify it
God like power in the hands of an “idiot” (human) can go really really bad. But yeah I think that getting a 4 dimentional look at reality can drive anyone mad
Here we go!!!
If a human inflict that pain and suffering as a part of a “machine”/method or without being a close participant of those actions, is really common that they just participate. Mass murder doesnt care for the body count, usually the ones that observe these attocities from another POV are the ones horrified, when you start questioning those actions is that guilt comes for a normal person that just looked the other way as a cope mechanism.
Eren Kruger tells us the answer at the end of S3. The only truth is there is no truth. The backbone of the plot rests on secrets and lies, so it’s truly fitting we only get enough answers to satisfy the events.
I see the genetic legacy of Ymir as an allegory for intergenerational trauma. Kruger tells Grisha his childhood trauma, Grisha has Fay, Eren has his mother… the Attack Titan comes to them all.
I think Eren cannot separate himself from the Attack Titan. He is conceived by Grisha with it in him. In the paths, his goading of Grisha is coupled with a change in disposition, much like Frieda gets when struggling with Grisha’s pleas. We are only seeing Eren because Eren and the Titan are the same; he “was born into this world”. He repeats the words Kruger said on the wall, almost like a mnemonic trigger. When Eren stops to watch himself wrap the scarf around Mikasa, I actually think he’s steeling himself to follow through. I think the reason he says he “chose this” is because knowing Ymir is an eternal slave is something he can never allow. He wouldn’t have killed those men but for the fact they were enslaving a girl. He didn’t even know her. This is the moment that foreshadows the ending. Eren cannot be a bystander to someone’s enslavement. That’s why the Mikasa scarf memory is important. Eren is wrapped around Ymir the way his scarf is wrapped around Mikasa. Eren chose to free her and end the Titans, the rumbling is the unavoidable consequence of relinquishing the power back to Ymir. Ymir is just 2,000 years of rage now that she has the Attack Titan part of her spirit “the rage of all humanity” wasn’t it? (Mikasa first seeing the Attack Titan)
Ymir is allowed to reconnect with her rage, but Mikasa is the only one who can bring her peace because she loves Eren and he saved her. Ending his suffering ends hers, allows her to be at rest.
I think that it’s hat happened came about as a combination of eren’s nature of wanting to fight against his foes no matter how ruthlessly as well as Ymir’s own desire for freedom and his disorientation from experiencing time differently from other people. Eren is a product of everything that came before him, and i think that it’s purposeful that it’s difficult to tell if it’s him or Ymir in control. I feel like eren thinks the same way.
I’m recommending Monster next, amazing story
Attack on titan happend because the founder Ymir was simping for king fritz
"80% is a lot", yes it is Elliot, yes it is..
Great comments on the ending. This series will live in my brain rent free probably for the rest of my life and it's become (quite unfairly) the bar against which I compare most stories.
A few notes:
- The "okapi" moment is meant to mirror the "monkey" moment in season two, which was a way to convey that they, people from Paradis, have never seen one or even heard the word. It was a small moment of levity but the back and forth over "what the hell is an okapi" was warranted. In all honesty I didn't even know it was a word either.
- You're right that the ending doesn't explain everything, but I really don't mind and kind of prefer it that way. From her inception, Ymir is supposed to be kind of a mythological character more than a person, which is why I find Eren telling her that she's not a god or a demon but a human being so affecting. Many details about AoT's supernatural logistics are left unresolved which, again, I think works for the best. Questions stimulate, they keep us thinking.
- Yes, the final season was different and more plot driven than character driven. I tend to like that more in stories, specially when the cast and the themes grow so much. I don't think a story that deals with themes like war and morality on a global scale and focuses on the cast feelings is doing it's homework.
Check out the AoT movie: Thr last attack...... you'd be surprised
Even Eren’s personality and desire for freedom were foisted upon him by his future self. So he has no real personality or opinions, only suffering
28:24 Ymir taking the younger form, I interpreted more of a regression to their slave state.
The only issue with your Eren theory about free will is that you’re assuming he had free will before. Free will is just an illusion. The only thing that changed when he kissed Historia’s hand is that he got new information. Everyone grows as a person because they have new information. People are a combination of nature and nurture. Your environment influences the information you take in while your biology influences how you perceive the information you take in. Neither of these things do you have control over. Therefore that’s why the end result of the whole story and a major theme throughout the show has been that humans are cyclical creatures by nature. Eren chose the path the broke from the cycle the most, but still knew he could never escape it entirely.
8:43 I don't know if I buy the Ymir influence interpretation. Eren's way of thinking is just common reactionary mentality. A traumatized person gaining the power and lashing out. So his action are understandable. It may not be moral but believable.
Good to see someone that doesnt hold all their reactions hostage on Patreon
This will always be a masterpiece. I was always fine with the ending - I knew it was coming characters beforehand.
I don't like everything about the finale, but with time I got to apreciate that the ending was basically a perfect example of absurdism theory. Maybe even the greatest example in pop culture ever.
Actually, Eren (with the full power of the Founding Titan) DID purposely send the Dina Fritz Titan away from Bertholdt and towards his mother in order to kickstart his entire journey in the first place by motivating him to want to slaughter all Titans. It was one of the biggest reveals in AOT. That was all Eren, and Ymir didn’t influence him to do that.
You’ll want to look into the entire time loop (tons of YT vids, etc. that explain it), it’s a giant mind fuck.
That part is just stupid, I'm sorry. I agree thats what the author was going for though. How did it happen exactly that way the first time then?
@@firesupotree
For a wielder of the Founding Titan, the whole 2000 year titan-timeline's past-present-future is laid out flat. They're able to perceive it all at once. This is a basic scientific concept (Past, present and future all coexist in spacetime and are interconnected) . In AoT, the Paths realm is how this is able to manifest.
One of the founding titans ability is to control pure titans. So, for someone, for whom time is laid out flat, they can control pure titans at any point in time, but the restriction is - it can only be done in a manner to shape the 1 (one) past-present-future.
In short, Dina Titan in ep-1 was controlled by Founder-Eren who gained access to the founding titan power later in time. But Founder Eren can't chose to not do this action -- bcoz if he chooses to save his mother, it would lead to a future where Eren does not get the founding titan. - (key reason - it is news of Carla's death that changes Grisha's mind & causes him to surrender his titans to Eren, earlier he pleaded to Zeke to stop Eren ). So, he has no choice. For that future moment to exist, the previous past moment shud be the way it is. That's why Founder Eren feels his heads all messed up, bcoz he experiences all past-present-future at the same time & can't change moments of the history even if he has the ability to (a restrictive ability - to prevent paradox situation).
Instance #2 - Founder Eren saves Eren & the scouts in Season 2 ending sure death situation. Founder Eren again controls the Dina Titan and moves it towards Eren (leading to Hannes' death). This was necessary for Eren & other to not die, with Eren being able to touch Dina Titan & use temporary titan control ability to save themselves.
Yikes end
There is no interpretation theory for Attack on Titan’s ending, because Isayama blatantly said it explicitly who he made Eren’s character: He has always been a childlike mindset and he never changed. He is selfish, and always wanted the freedom he envisioned in Armin’s book, which is why Isayama portrayed him as a child here and there. He admitted to Armin he did it all to himself - the Rumbling. But his path he chose led him to end the Titan Curse. It ended exactly how it should end. It was perfect.
I still think it’s fine when people have different opinions and interpretations as long as it’s not pure hateful
There are a lot of interpretive elements in the ending. "I don't know why, but I always wanted to" + "Eren, you're free" is the single most complex scene in the series and it has a lot of potential interpretiveness to it. Even the original ending with whether or not the ship with the alliance would be destroyed, and the extra pages ending with the boy and the tree are both interpretive too. You're right about Eren though.
@@osmorca618 i hate when people say eren telling 'i dont know why' is out of place
because HE LITERALLY SAID THE EXACT THING BACK IN S3 EP13 TO ARMIN
'I DONT KNOW WHY but the thought of getting back my freedom gives me strength'