@brickstudios I am the father from the father/son team that designed the original Ideas submission you are covering here. Were also participating in the BrickLink Designer Program series 4 with our truck design, but unfortunately the crowd support phase ended recently. Thanks so much for making a video on this topic. We believe the bin arm design that we released as a part of our LEGO Ideas submission was innovative and novel. We believe set 42167 would not exist as it does today unless we had released our idea on LEGO Ideas. A few important clarifications from my perspective: 1) We have received no credit or compensation from LEGO (other than the $500 in LEGO sets everyone who reaches 10k votes receives), nor from any of the (at least four that we know of) clone brick companies that copied our bin arm design and are selling sets based on it. 2) LEGO did not steal our idea. The already have full rights to it and would not need to steal it to make use of it however they want. As a part of LEGO Ideas participation you assign LEGO all rights worldwide to your idea for three years. When you submit an idea, you agree that: “LEGO and co-marketing partners can use your contributions in any way and for any purpose”... …“You agree that if the LEGO Group introduces a product similar to your idea or contest entry, whether accepted to or rejected from the site, you understand and acknowledge that any coincidence is unintentional, agree to indemnify and hold LEGO harmless and release LEGO from any and all claims of infringement.” We participated in the LEGO Ideas program fully knowing this. LEGO is a huge corporation and is going to take actions in their best interest. 3) When we reached out to Hasan at LEGO Ideas about set 42167, a part of his response was “...inspiration for this design is not connected to your design”. To be completely honest we think this is disingenuous. If you look at the designs for LEGO side-loading garbage truck mechanisms before and after we released our design, it is clear that our design was innovative and has been frequently copied. Set 42167 and all of the clone sets sold show that there has been plenty of market demand for a functional LEGO side loading bin arm if one had existed. But one did not exist until we released our design. You've done a nice job of outlining the similarities between our design and set 42167. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. Scott
Wow, thank you so much Scott! It's sad to see that Lego gets full rights to people's designs when they post to Lego ideas, I feel like they should at least give some credit in the manual or something if they do make a similar set. Thanks for commenting though, hopefully you'll be able to answer the community's questions!
@@declan9550 We're currently participating in the BrickLink Designer Program Series 4 with the truck project. Apart from that, LEGO still holds full rights worldwide to our design until June 2024.
Hm. Seems easy to create ethical violations in that case. What stops Lego designers from browsing Ideas for ideas, then "independently" producing them and claiming they can't give the Ideas creator credit because they were "already planning to produce" the set?
@@danatronics9039 that's true, too. LEGO is very secretive about their projects years in advance. They are not going to show what sets they are currently working on.
LEGO makes that claim, but basically their LEGO IDEAS program is a total scam! All creators that projects reach the 10K likes goal, lose their right to their project design. So basically the creator waives their rights to their project design and it becomes LEGO's property so they can do what they want at that point. Bottom line, LEGO can steal a lot of creators designs and take it for themselves to profit big off your design. It's better for these creators putting their hard work entry's into just create their project design, purchase trademarks, copyrights, etc, and produce yourself and sell it to the potential 10k+ buyers for a reasonable price of your choice. Otherwise creators are just hoping and praying their project design is picked and LEGO sells it close to the original creators design, and you maybe get properly compensated for it. But that is a huge if!
In this case we released our design in 2019, more than 5 years ago. The Mack electric garbage truck did not even exist at that time. The LEGO product development pipeline is long, but I don't believe it would have been feasible for them to be planning set 42167 that long ago. In other cases like the Ghostbusters Firehouse Headquarters, City Beach Lifeguard Station, and Jurassic Park T-Rex Rampage LEGO made public statements to clarify how their set ideas came about. They have not done that so far in this case.
My theory is that they thought a regular System version of the garbage truck wouldn't be as good or mechanically-oriented as a Technic version, but they didn't want to change the original Ideas submission completely to Technic as it would change the design too much
My only guess is that they liked the idea but didn't like alot of elements. For one, there was the part where because of the shortcomings of the gears you had to use a stud and just angle it right. Secondly, in the first set you had to manually turn the gear to put the trash into the back where in the follow up design it did it manually. And third, they were able to add rubber bits to the grabber as well as making the grabber bigger which in theory means it should be able to lift up a much wider variety of shapes and sizes. In the end i think the original design was slightly better but i can see them not wanting to take a design and then change it in alot of different ways.
Possibly because they’ve done their own garbage and recycle trucks in minifig scale fairly regularly for some time. And probably already had 1 or 2 in planning stages or ready for production when reviewing this.
No, not stolen in this case. This design is nothing close to the actuator assembly for picking up the garbage can submitted by Levi and Scott Hasse to Lego Ideas. I know because I did my best to replicate that design and showed how I did it on my channel two years ago. I got a positive response on my video from one of the original designers himself saying that I was close but not exactly the same and that they had even improved on their original design. This truck is awesome but the garbage can pickup assembly is completely different and even has that unique piece to accomplish the feat which isn't used at all in the Lego Ideas design. They also do not have the compactor.
@lifesabrick5104 the bin arm in 42167 actually is quite similar to our original design. Yes, they were able to use the new 45 degree knob gear that did not exist when we released our design in place of the smaller gears we used. They moved the half crown driving gear from the front to the middle, and they added a rubber band. But the fundamental function is basically the same. Yes they don't have a compactor, but our claim is about the bin arm mechanism only.
@@scotthasse280 Thanks for your thoughts here as I didn't know you had made any claim actually. Sadly, this Technics mechanism is really inferior to your design in my opinion, especially with the addition of the rubber band. It's an odd design since they had the rights to yours from participating in the Lego Ideas Program. I still haven't quite perfected the compactor action yet, so I have to get back to that.
@@scotthasse280yea I do get that but can you really claim a arm design that can’t really be changed to function or build any other way. In my opinion I don’t believe they fully stole your idea they may have took some inspiration but there isn’t enough similarities in the design.I guess you could maybe say it’s yours but you did kind of write of the rights to your design when you submitted it to ideas
@@BorgiaFawcett I don't think I understand your post. Our claim is that our bin arm design inspired the bin arm design in set 42167. LEGO has said there was no inspiration. As we have clarified we assigned rights and are not making any claims of stealing or copyright violation. How does a design that in your opinion "can’t really be changed to function or build any other way" have anything to do with if it inspired another design or not? No functional minifig scale LEGO bin arm design existed until we released our design and since then it has been widely copied.
@@SteelTheFish It's also a bit of a "common sense" mechanism. I've seen a design with identical functionality (though the gear positioning is different) used on multiple combat robots including SlaMow from Battlebots (and its 150g small-scale prototype) and Gluttonous Snake from King of Bots. Basically, there's a gear on the hinge shaft that engages with one that moves the claws. When the claws clamp down onto something, the gear for the claws jams and starts acting as a keyway for the arm itself, allowing the arm to lift up with one single input rather than having to rely on separate sources of torque for each motion. It's a pretty commonly used mechanism.
I can totally see why the original would not make it as an Ideas set. There's no specific size or theme requirement for Ideas, but there is still a general premium vibe, and the garbage truck just screams standard Lego City... but then theres the question of why Lego couldn't have just offered to scale it back into a City set and call it a day because it would be a freaking instant buy for City fans. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that they still make smaller Technic (in fact after the proliferation and later abandonment of CCBS and Bionicle I feel like Technic is under utilized as a theme), but a garbage truck at this scale is a no brainer design for Lego City, over you know, the 57th fire truck.
Maybe due to the current lego city not really having much ideas. They have odd things the wierdest I have seen is the naming of every figure which is silly as people far prefer nameless characters in the generic city builder sets allowing you to make people up but naming them just makes them already existing.
This is what I miss about Lego Ideas. We used to get smaller cheaper sets like the Delorean, Ecto 1, Tron Lightcycles. Now it's just been converted into only premium sets so if something is being made, it usually has to be an 18+ level set
It’s like they only looked at the most simplest aspects of the Ideas design and didn’t account for all the specific issues that the Ideas design addressed
The thing is, if you upload something to LEGO Ideas and it gets 10,000 supporters, then you've transferred the rights to it to LEGO for a few years, even if LEGO doesn't make the set for the time being. They can do whatever they want during that time.
More simply put than how I said it! LEGO Ideas scams a lot good potential creators. In a couple years span, these creators could sell their project design to the public for their own profit. The only benefit LEGO IDEAS has is if your project is picked and becomes an official set, LEGO mass produces it for customer purchase but even that is limited and not everyone gets a chance to buy the set.
Exactly my friend. That's why an independent platform should be created and sell it's designs to LEGO if they wish to produce it. But now Lego is toying with everyone's ambitions with the Bricklink program. Thats a huge reason why they bought it in the first place. The "house never loses"..
@@shadowfax3505 I thought rebrickable works for us buying the design. Not all are worth it and that's pennies in comparison to what Lego could offer. The intellect of each of us is worth way more to LEGO than what anyone would hope to make through an instructions download from rebrickable. The ideas program offers Lego and first hand market search, important data and designs that offer LEGO more ideas.
This happens a lot. I remember the first notable time was with the Ghostbusters Firehouse, Cloud City (although not an ideas design, there was a very similar concept posted online two years before the release of the official one), this garbage truck, and now the Seven Dwarf’s Cottage. Probably missing some. When Lego has so many concepts to choose from, and so many ways to execute them, but with their almost limitless system somehow ending up with sets looking very similar to popular fan creations, it’s hard to believe these are all just coincidences.
I never said anything about the terms and conditions of Ideas that protect Lego from every legal situation. I said their designers take obvious inspiration from fan builds. Legal or not, it's immoral and a company the size of Lego should do better.@@bloodymarvelous4790
Imitation is indeed the most sincere form of flattery. But for Hasan at LEGO Ideas to tell us "“...inspiration for this design is not connected to your design” certainly takes some of the potential honor away. It seems to us that the inspiration is obvious and it would have been simple for them to do something different. This is in addition to the (at least) four clone brick companies that copied our bin arm design and are selling sets with it.
i got this yesterday and i thought the exact same thing also some tips for people who have this truck 1. remove the rubber band so you have better control over the arm 2. if you want to collect smaller bins, take off the black cushions on the grippers i would also love if the entire arm assembly can reach out and grab carts at further distances
I don't really believe that Lego stole this idea from anyone. When making a garbage truck out of Lego pieces, there is only so much you can do regarding it's mechanism. Both models' mechanisms are obviously taken from the real life counterpart, so naturally a good mechanism in Lego would be heavily reminiscent of the way a real Garbage truck functions. Lego's Technic series prides it's self on realism both visually and mechanically. I don't think it would be too far off for them to create something similar to someone else's model just because that's the way something works in real life. Also the way the Technic model is built is different from the Lego Ideas model. The only similarity is the way it grabs, picks up and dumps a trashcan. This is of course because of what it's based on. Also, Lego has never really been know to steal designs from their fans to my knowledge. I feel like if they really wanted that exact mechanism and build to be in a set, they would just go through with making the Lego Ideas version a real one. They've never really had a problem doing that. I just think this is a coincidence due to them both being mechanically functioning garbage trucks.
@yamarlamar1080 The mechanism we designed does not actually function how a real garbage truck side-loading arm functions in real life. Those typically independent hydraulic actuation for the grab and lift (and other) movements. Or perhaps electric in the case of the Mack electric side-loader. We innovated a single action gear-based mechanism to mimic achieve the same function at minifig scale. This took a lot of design refinement and is only obvious in hindsight. Nothing like it existed for that purpose before we released our design. You are right that there are differences in the truck design, but our claims are about the bin arm mechanism only.
@@scotthasse280Sorry to say this, but this style of arm is pretty old news actually. The oldest example I can think of is this Technic set from 1997, which is coincidentally also a garbage truck: th-cam.com/video/D5s9NLB1OvI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IauAXUoEPQDNYZrJ It uses a wire linkage to drive the grabbers instead of gears, but the basic principle of using one axle to power both a grabbing and lifting motion is the same. I also used to take part in FLL Lego robot competitions throughout the 2010s and this kind of mechanism was pretty much the go-to standard for collecting objects off the ground. Here is an example of a robot using that kind of arm from 2009: th-cam.com/video/h3PS7nIihOw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=4lkjASNXdFidCsMk Here is an entire playlist with similar designs, many of which use gears like you did, and several of which even use your design of having the rotation axle gear directly connect at a 90°angle: m.th-cam.com/video/PQI66KsRsqM/w-d-xo.html&pp=iAQB In fact, this particular video from over 6 years ago is basically your exact design at a slightly bigger scale: th-cam.com/video/tS2v-uC0GOQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=cXn-z_qauzUXaBA2 These kinds of arms are incredibly useful for robotics competitions and people have probably built then in just about every shape imaginable for decades. Now, to be clear, your particular design is still incredibly impressive for its miniaturization factor. In fact, I distinctly remember trying to build something similar at one point during my childhood, but not managing to get the mechanism remotely small enough, so the fact that you built one that can not only fit inside a minifig scale city set, but do so elegantly, is fucking amazing. But Lego didn't steal your hyper-minaturized design, they just built a similar arm at a more normal size based on a design that has been pretty well established for decades (at least in the space of Lego robotics)
@@hellothere_1257 No need to apologize. We're not claiming to have invented the mechanism, but we do believe the combination of scale, functionality, method of actuation, and purpose are novel and required significant innovation. Some of which you've pointed out in your post. I appreciate your detailed post with references, many of which I had not seen before. The reality is that the (at least) four clone sets released, the numerous fan builders that have reverse engineered our design and set 42167 show that there has been plenty of market demand for a smoothly functional minifig scale side-loading garbage truck mechanism had one existed. But one did not exist until we released our design. Since then our specific design has been widely copied by Lepin, Xingbao and other clone companies. Set 42167 is slightly larger but has the same functionality, method of actuation and purpose as our design. There is no legal problem here with LEGO, as we have assigned LEGO rights to our idea per participation in LEGO Ideas. However, LEGO has told us officially that "LEGO Ideas as a platform for fan submissions is not a platform that’s used by our internal teams as inspiration to create future sets. It’s critical to the integrity and success of LEGO Ideas that LEGO Ideas submissions are treated separately from our internal product development process and that these two processes do not overlap." (which I generally believe they do aspire to). But further "... inspiration for this design [set 42167] is not connected to your design". Honestly to me this seems disingenuous. I think even a casual observer who knows how passionate the LEGO designers are about researching the topic they are given to design can see there is inspiration from our design.
Yes. Next question? To be completely accurate, it is not legally "stealing" since you wave any right when you apply to the Ideas program, but there are no less than 25 ideas that reached 10'000 supporters, didn't got approved, and somehow become a set less than a three years later...
Even if it was the same design, there’s only so many ways to connect Lego bricks and chances are this set could have been designed decades ago and just finally made it into production. So by the time the idea set was made Lego could have already been planning on making their similar build so they denied the idea set. Pretty simple
When I saw that garbage can made of Toad heads I was freaked out. Sure, some Minecraft pieces have appeared in other sets but I didn't think the same was happening to Mario already! Can't wait for one of the platform pieces to randomly appear in some Star Wars set or something.
this was the EXACT same thought I had about this set, I REALLY wanted the og garbage truck. I want a set like this but you can be damn sure I will NOT be buying this one
It's not actually how a garbage truck works, at least not with that specific mechanism. The base concept is the same but actual garbage trucks use a 3-DOF (plus gripper) hydraulically actuated arm rather than a single-action locked-gear grabbing arm. However, this mechanism sees a LOT of use elsewhere.
they done same on the orrery (42179) but the first design was in 2013 by maxifigure and in 2016 JKBrickworks upgraded it. fun fact: all orreries lack elliptical orbit for the seasons.
Some thing to take into account is lego sets are in development for 3 to 4 years and in this case the new offset gear development was in that fase before the idea's set was submitted so to make that claim they stolen the idea seems that they didn't for reasons mentioned imo.
@@scotthasse280 I was pointing out about the offset gear was in development as it wasn't available to use in the design you're submitted so my timeline has some merit, go and cry to mommy sook!! Also set #42078 released 6 years ago have a look at the "B" model had no offset gears so to improve on this concept with the side loading mechanism they developed the newer gear to achieve this therefore 6 years in development, but hey if you think you're got a rock solid case sign up a lawyer and sue I don't give a f#@K.
The axis that connects the rear door with the body 10:06 has 2 round pieces on its left end, but nothing on the right. I made it look symmetrical by using the round elements from the left-over pieces and added them on the right end of the axis. The set also has an issue, that the printed tile next to the grabber is pushed loose by the grabber. And the elastic already broke in my set.
The system to lift up the garbage can is called a manipulator, I have used Lego manipulators in WRO last year. I can say these have been around for a lot of time. And as the top comment said, Lego can sometimes deny projects they are already planning. So I don’t think that that Lego copied it since the mechanic has been around for a while and a Lego garbage truck does sound like something Lego would release on its own
when you submit your work to the Ideas page, you agree with the conditions and TLG can use your work by some time, this is how it works then - there were few more issues with "stealing" the idea, look to the latest Snow White's set :)
We originally uploaded our truck design to LEGO Ideas in 2019, long before this set or the actual Mack electric garbage truck existed. Not sure if you are thinking of our recent BrickLink Designer Program series 4 participation?
@@rollsterwunfortunately since Lego owns the rights to the set for many years after the submission it never became a set, but it’s currently competing on Lego’s other program called BrickLink Designer to become an actual set once again. Go check it out there and maybe it’ll win :)
I've long loathed Lego Technic Panels for anything other that aesthetic covering. I prefer to use more Technic Beas rather than the panels to acheive smoother more functional purpose.
Enjoying your contents so far but can i suggest that you invert your camera such that your hands are seen at the bottom of the video? its kinda hard to follow the vids if it were to continue like this (in this video). Nevertheless, continue the good work!
@Underkill635 how this mechanism works is actually not how a real garbage truck works. Set 42167, the cloned copies of our set, and the numerous passionate builders that have enthusiastically praised and re-created our design show there has been plenty of market demand for a functional side loading bin arm if one had existed. But one did not exist until we released our design. It is only obvious in hindsight.
I think it's a stretch to say this was copied. It's not exactly like a garbage truck is some crazy concept, and the mechanism isn't exactly complicated either. Replicating what real garbage trucks do with simple mechanical principles doesn't mean it's stolen. Plus several features aren't shared between them, including some features of the mechanism its self. Could there have been a chance that it was copied? Sure. But technic is known for replicating vehicles and their functions, so it's a stretch to say that they copied someone who had the same goal. If anything, I think it's more likely that Lego had probably planned to make this set years in advance (as they do with many non-ip projects) and rejected the ideas set due to the overlap.
The thing is that there was a 5 year gap between the Lego ideas set and this one coming out which is much longer than usual set development length. Also the Mack garbage truck model that the official Lego set is based on wasn’t even around when the Lego ideas set released so I don’t think it’s possible for it to have been in development when the Lego ideas set got denied.
I think this warrants a look at the LEGO Ideas ToS. LEGO very well could have "stolen" the mechanical design from the Ideas submission, but legally still have the rights to it due to their ToS claiming some form of ownership over all submissions regardless of status.
As someone said below in the very moment you summit an idea on lego ideas the concept is owned by lego, but is evident that they are making lot of sets based on lego ideas. Personally I really think that these legos should address some credit to the original idea submit independently the theme. That could make fans more happy and could make look lego more honest. For sure in some cases I am sure that Lego may been working on some things much before the lego ideas summits
Why wouldn't they coppied it? They have right to do it. When you enter LEGO Ideas Set there's whole article about that LEGO can use any ideas that are put on the site.
I own this set it’s actually one of my favourite in my city that black technic piece that slightly sticks out is meant to be the part you try to align flesh with the recycling bin so the arms can grab it at a proper angle so the bin doesn’t really tilt or fall that much if that makes sense
The IDEAS range is for sets that are outside what LEGO would normally produce. This is why they don't approve modular style buildings, City type sets, Technic sets, or any set that they have a range for at the time like Castle, Pirates, or Architecture. If you look at the IDEAS sets that got approved, like the Motorized Lighthouse, The Tree House, Home Alone, Globe, Typewriter, Grand Piano, Insects, A-Frame Cabin, Sesame Street, and the Red Telephone Box, they don't fit in any of the existing ranges. Other sets (re)launched certain themes. The Saturn V was the first NASA set, followed by the ISS and Women of NASA. The Medieval Blacksmith relaunched the Castle theme. Pirates of Barracuda Bay rebooted the Pirates theme. But now that they're part of normal LEGO releases, with the Space Shuttle, Lunar Lander, and Mars Rover; Lion Knights Castle and Medieval Town Square; and Eldorado Fortress, those IDEAS submissions will be dead on arrival. The Big Bang Theory, Central Perk, Seinfeld, and The Office are all in the IDEAS range, with The Friends Apartments being the only one outside IDEAS. So I'm assuming they won't be approving any more TV recording stage designs for IDEAS anymore.
This is one of the best sets for the money. Fun to build, fun to play with, and looks good on display. I wish there were more sets like this with as much functionality.
Not only this truck but also 31152 Astronaut was submitted in Ideas, rejected (although got 10 000 supporters) and later released as 3in1 creator set. Slightly different but still...
It would suck if Lego was "stealing", but I'm not convinced they are. I guess, I'd be curious to see how one of those pinchers works in real life. Maybe we should look it up. 🤣.Can you imagine how much it would suck, if every time a person built something using a technique, no one else could ever do it that way? Lego even gives away their instructions online. I think you nailed it when you mentioned inspiration. I also believe it's possible for more than one person to come up with similar ideas independently. Great video, very thought provoking!🔥
Our claim is about the bin arm mechanism only. Of course yes the trucks themselves are different, and LEGO has made lots of garbage truck sets in the past.
The only reason they could steal it, is so the Ideas designer doesnt get royalties on the set. but LEGO love the community so i'd assume this genuinely was under development before the Idea was published to the site
Even if it wasn't, the IDEAS submission never had a chance of being approved. It was basically a LEGO City set with some Technic functionality. There already were LEGO City garbage trucks in 2010, 2012, and 2016. This set would not have sold well as an IDEAS set.
I have a say which tell if you tought about something, high are the chances that someone else, elsewhere, thought about the exact same thing,or similar one. It's even truer with Lego where they have a limited (still a lot) variety of parts.
Didn't the father and son not copy it from a real dumping truck too though? Like, if i submit a square house with a triangle roof and it doesn't get approved, and the very next model house has the same shape as mine, it wouldn't bother me that much as i still have my lil' house.
Our mechanism does not work the same as a real dumping truck which uses hydraulics and independent actuation of the grab and dump motions. It took significant innovation to achieve consistent results at minifig scale with a single motion. Nothing like what we designed existed before in terms of scale, purpose, method, and function. Set 42167 and all of the clone sets that use our bin arm design show that there has been plenty of market demand for a functional LEGO side-loading arm if one had existed. But one did not exist until we released our design, which is only obvious in hindsight.
This type of grab-and-lift mechanism really isn’t anytung new. In fact, here's a technic truck from 1997 that uses the exact same principle: th-cam.com/video/F28CSc1NKB4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8hYm_BCFoZzeONk0d The original Ideas set is incredibly impressive, but what's impressive about it isn’t the mechanism itself, but the fact that they minaturized it to fit elegantly into a minifig scale city set! While it is sad to see the original snubbed in favor of a less impressive (due to its larger size) technic set, Lego didn't steal the one aspect that actually makes the set as cool as it is.
There are some old sets (8094, 8868, 8479, and 9736) that were much larger and clunkier, used pneumatics, cable linkages, or much longer gear trains, along with motors, and had grab and lift or grab and drop functions versus grab and dump. Can you provide an example of something of a similar scale, method, function, and actuation pre-dating our Ideas submission? We're not aware of anything even close to our design prior to us releasing our bin arm design, and the bin arm in set 42167 is very close to our design in terms of scale, method (basically the same gear train), function (dump a trash can and return it) and actuation (a single hand-operated motion to lift, dump, return and release).
Also for our design to not have inspired the LEGO design, it implies that a Technic designer was assigned the job to work on a side-loading garbage truck project and had no awareness of our side-loading bin arm mechanism, including any of: * Our original LEGO Ideas submission * Our popular Reddit r/lego post * The JK Brickworks video highlighting our bin arm mechanism * The Beyond the Brick video highlighting our truck project * The Lepin clone set using our bin arm mechanism * The Xingbao clone sets using our bin arm mechanism * The other clone sets using our bin arm mechanism * The intellectual property that LEGO owns (assigned by us) which includes the digital design and building instructions of our truck and mechanism. And that they did no research once being assigned the project that would create awareness of any of those things. And then they created the set 42167 bin arm mechanism independently. That seems a bit far-fetched to me. If you've seen any of the LEGO designer videos you know how passionate they are and how they research the design topic they are given.
I was thinking about this other day, I saw that indie design, and I swear both official lego ones this year, this technic one and the lego city recycle truck, it’s like this one stole functionality, and city one has exact “look” of it, crazy, I will never put my moc’s in ideas, catch me on bricklink 😂
Heil garbage trucks' arms are 90% piston driven (like a with a back hoe) but a timing chain and moving pulley for the arm to rotate 90° at max height. LEGOs was actualy pretty close, the other was a more "dated" version. Modern world, that gear system is more useful for something like a wench (less cance of a gear breaking than a belt)
The creator of the original designs knows this, they just want acknowledgement from Lego that they used part of their design as far as I can tell. (Never gonna happen)
The fan design was so much better; they even came with a design for the bins to remain closed except when inclines so it opens when the truck picks it and closes when the truck puts it down. The fan designed garbage truck is now a project you can vote for in the bricklink designer program; one last chance to turn it into an official Lego set!
I was wondering about that... I saw that come through and i instantly remembered the ideas build... mainly because I tried reproducing the mechanism at home since i thought it was really neat. Hm.
for me I think the reason why it got denied is because it would be too complicated. Like who are the city sets usually made for? like 6-9 year olds. So making a set with wierd connections and new gears to young kids who dont understand it. It would probably be too hard and thats why they made it a technic set
I dont think its stolen for a few reasons. 1 lego ideas sets that make it in are usually something unique or something from a entirely different theme. A garbage truck feels really close to city and indeed lego city has made garbage trucks before. 2 it would mean they had to reverse innovate and literally make a design worse. i dont see why they would steal a design just to make it rely on a rubber band as well as use a ramp to move the trash to the back area when the original worked so much better.
They clearly state that you moc will become under lego right meaning they can do whatever they want and you cant say a damn thing. Thats cheap but thats why i dont support nor post moc on their site.
@brickstudios I am the father from the father/son team that designed the original Ideas submission you are covering here. Were also participating in the BrickLink Designer Program series 4 with our truck design, but unfortunately the crowd support phase ended recently. Thanks so much for making a video on this topic. We believe the bin arm design that we released as a part of our LEGO Ideas submission was innovative and novel. We believe set 42167 would not exist as it does today unless we had released our idea on LEGO Ideas. A few important clarifications from my perspective:
1) We have received no credit or compensation from LEGO (other than the $500 in LEGO sets everyone who reaches 10k votes receives), nor from any of the (at least four that we know of) clone brick companies that copied our bin arm design and are selling sets based on it.
2) LEGO did not steal our idea. The already have full rights to it and would not need to steal it to make use of it however they want. As a part of LEGO Ideas participation you assign LEGO all rights worldwide to your idea for three years. When you submit an idea, you agree that:
“LEGO and co-marketing partners can use your contributions in any way and for any purpose”...
…“You agree that if the LEGO Group introduces a product similar to your idea or contest entry, whether accepted to or rejected from the site, you understand and acknowledge that any coincidence is unintentional, agree to indemnify and hold LEGO harmless and release LEGO from any and all claims of infringement.”
We participated in the LEGO Ideas program fully knowing this. LEGO is a huge corporation and is going to take actions in their best interest.
3) When we reached out to Hasan at LEGO Ideas about set 42167, a part of his response was “...inspiration for this design is not connected to your design”. To be completely honest we think this is disingenuous. If you look at the designs for LEGO side-loading garbage truck mechanisms before and after we released our design, it is clear that our design was innovative and has been frequently copied. Set 42167 and all of the clone sets sold show that there has been plenty of market demand for a functional LEGO side loading bin arm if one had existed. But one did not exist until we released our design. You've done a nice job of outlining the similarities between our design and set 42167.
If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.
Scott
Wow, thank you so much Scott! It's sad to see that Lego gets full rights to people's designs when they post to Lego ideas, I feel like they should at least give some credit in the manual or something if they do make a similar set. Thanks for commenting though, hopefully you'll be able to answer the community's questions!
Can you make instructions!!!
@@declan9550 We're currently participating in the BrickLink Designer Program Series 4 with the truck project. Apart from that, LEGO still holds full rights worldwide to our design until June 2024.
So you work for Lego for free. Nice.
Please make instructions so we can build it
Interesting that it's called a garbage truck, but everything about it screams recycle truck.
That’s because first you have to collect the garbage 😂
There's no difference
@NLGeebee I've always seen separate trucks and cans. There is no order to pickup.
I call it Bin truck
here in the uk we have both
LEGO has mentioned that they will deny projects that they are already planning to produce. That might have been the case.
Hm. Seems easy to create ethical violations in that case. What stops Lego designers from browsing Ideas for ideas, then "independently" producing them and claiming they can't give the Ideas creator credit because they were "already planning to produce" the set?
@@danatronics9039 that's true, too. LEGO is very secretive about their projects years in advance. They are not going to show what sets they are currently working on.
LEGO makes that claim, but basically their LEGO IDEAS program is a total scam! All creators that projects reach the 10K likes goal, lose their right to their project design. So basically the creator waives their rights to their project design and it becomes LEGO's property so they can do what they want at that point. Bottom line, LEGO can steal a lot of creators designs and take it for themselves to profit big off your design. It's better for these creators putting their hard work entry's into just create their project design, purchase trademarks, copyrights, etc, and produce yourself and sell it to the potential 10k+ buyers for a reasonable price of your choice. Otherwise creators are just hoping and praying their project design is picked and LEGO sells it close to the original creators design, and you maybe get properly compensated for it. But that is a huge if!
I mean it's possible but, the chances Lego already came up with the same concept and mechanism coincidently seem pretty slim.
In this case we released our design in 2019, more than 5 years ago. The Mack electric garbage truck did not even exist at that time. The LEGO product development pipeline is long, but I don't believe it would have been feasible for them to be planning set 42167 that long ago. In other cases like the Ghostbusters Firehouse Headquarters, City Beach Lifeguard Station, and Jurassic Park T-Rex Rampage LEGO made public statements to clarify how their set ideas came about. They have not done that so far in this case.
The realism on this design is perfect, it lifts slowly then on occasion launches the bin
The truck for no reason: YEET
I have no idea why lego would deny something like that, but basically make a bigger technic version later.
My theory is that they thought a regular System version of the garbage truck wouldn't be as good or mechanically-oriented as a Technic version, but they didn't want to change the original Ideas submission completely to Technic as it would change the design too much
My only guess is that they liked the idea but didn't like alot of elements. For one, there was the part where because of the shortcomings of the gears you had to use a stud and just angle it right. Secondly, in the first set you had to manually turn the gear to put the trash into the back where in the follow up design it did it manually. And third, they were able to add rubber bits to the grabber as well as making the grabber bigger which in theory means it should be able to lift up a much wider variety of shapes and sizes.
In the end i think the original design was slightly better but i can see them not wanting to take a design and then change it in alot of different ways.
ok
@@arthand7672
Possibly because they’ve done their own garbage and recycle trucks in minifig scale fairly regularly for some time. And probably already had 1 or 2 in planning stages or ready for production when reviewing this.
People stealing lego Bad idea
No, not stolen in this case. This design is nothing close to the actuator assembly for picking up the garbage can submitted by Levi and Scott Hasse to Lego Ideas. I know because I did my best to replicate that design and showed how I did it on my channel two years ago. I got a positive response on my video from one of the original designers himself saying that I was close but not exactly the same and that they had even improved on their original design. This truck is awesome but the garbage can pickup assembly is completely different and even has that unique piece to accomplish the feat which isn't used at all in the Lego Ideas design. They also do not have the compactor.
@lifesabrick5104 the bin arm in 42167 actually is quite similar to our original design. Yes, they were able to use the new 45 degree knob gear that did not exist when we released our design in place of the smaller gears we used. They moved the half crown driving gear from the front to the middle, and they added a rubber band. But the fundamental function is basically the same.
Yes they don't have a compactor, but our claim is about the bin arm mechanism only.
@@scotthasse280 Thanks for your thoughts here as I didn't know you had made any claim actually. Sadly, this Technics mechanism is really inferior to your design in my opinion, especially with the addition of the rubber band. It's an odd design since they had the rights to yours from participating in the Lego Ideas Program. I still haven't quite perfected the compactor action yet, so I have to get back to that.
@@scotthasse280yea I do get that but can you really claim a arm design that can’t really be changed to function or build any other way. In my opinion I don’t believe they fully stole your idea they may have took some inspiration but there isn’t enough similarities in the design.I guess you could maybe say it’s yours but you did kind of write of the rights to your design when you submitted it to ideas
@@BorgiaFawcett I don't think I understand your post. Our claim is that our bin arm design inspired the bin arm design in set 42167. LEGO has said there was no inspiration. As we have clarified we assigned rights and are not making any claims of stealing or copyright violation.
How does a design that in your opinion "can’t really be changed to function or build any other way" have anything to do with if it inspired another design or not? No functional minifig scale LEGO bin arm design existed until we released our design and since then it has been widely copied.
@@scotthasse280I feel bad for you that they didn't accept your idea. 😔
"We were already working on that" ~ Lego after seeing an amazing idea and not already working on that
its just a mechanism that was used in sets before, like in an alternative model for EV3 mindstorms set.
@@SteelTheFish
It's also a bit of a "common sense" mechanism. I've seen a design with identical functionality (though the gear positioning is different) used on multiple combat robots including SlaMow from Battlebots (and its 150g small-scale prototype) and Gluttonous Snake from King of Bots.
Basically, there's a gear on the hinge shaft that engages with one that moves the claws. When the claws clamp down onto something, the gear for the claws jams and starts acting as a keyway for the arm itself, allowing the arm to lift up with one single input rather than having to rely on separate sources of torque for each motion. It's a pretty commonly used mechanism.
@@VestedUTuber well said
bro who in their right mind would throw a blue stud into the thrash can. the stud is worth 1000 currency a piece.
the consumerism is real.........
Well it's actually a blue flat stud, so the price is probably a little lower lol
is it as much as a purple stud?
I can totally see why the original would not make it as an Ideas set. There's no specific size or theme requirement for Ideas, but there is still a general premium vibe, and the garbage truck just screams standard Lego City... but then theres the question of why Lego couldn't have just offered to scale it back into a City set and call it a day because it would be a freaking instant buy for City fans.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that they still make smaller Technic (in fact after the proliferation and later abandonment of CCBS and Bionicle I feel like Technic is under utilized as a theme), but a garbage truck at this scale is a no brainer design for Lego City, over you know, the 57th fire truck.
Maybe due to the current lego city not really having much ideas. They have odd things the wierdest I have seen is the naming of every figure which is silly as people far prefer nameless characters in the generic city builder sets allowing you to make people up but naming them just makes them already existing.
This is what I miss about Lego Ideas. We used to get smaller cheaper sets like the Delorean, Ecto 1, Tron Lightcycles. Now it's just been converted into only premium sets so if something is being made, it usually has to be an 18+ level set
It’s like they only looked at the most simplest aspects of the Ideas design and didn’t account for all the specific issues that the Ideas design addressed
The thing is, if you upload something to LEGO Ideas and it gets 10,000 supporters, then you've transferred the rights to it to LEGO for a few years, even if LEGO doesn't make the set for the time being. They can do whatever they want during that time.
More simply put than how I said it! LEGO Ideas scams a lot good potential creators. In a couple years span, these creators could sell their project design to the public for their own profit. The only benefit LEGO IDEAS has is if your project is picked and becomes an official set, LEGO mass produces it for customer purchase but even that is limited and not everyone gets a chance to buy the set.
The transfer of rights happens when you submit it, doesn't need to reach 10k for that
Exactly my friend. That's why an independent platform should be created and sell it's designs to LEGO if they wish to produce it. But now Lego is toying with everyone's ambitions with the Bricklink program. Thats a huge reason why they bought it in the first place. The "house never loses"..
@@knownasxristako3321 Thats why rebrickable exists
@@shadowfax3505 I thought rebrickable works for us buying the design. Not all are worth it and that's pennies in comparison to what Lego could offer. The intellect of each of us is worth way more to LEGO than what anyone would hope to make through an instructions download from rebrickable. The ideas program offers Lego and first hand market search, important data and designs that offer LEGO more ideas.
This happens a lot.
I remember the first notable time was with the Ghostbusters Firehouse, Cloud City (although not an ideas design, there was a very similar concept posted online two years before the release of the official one), this garbage truck, and now the Seven Dwarf’s Cottage. Probably missing some.
When Lego has so many concepts to choose from, and so many ways to execute them, but with their almost limitless system somehow ending up with sets looking very similar to popular fan creations, it’s hard to believe these are all just coincidences.
I never said anything about the terms and conditions of Ideas that protect Lego from every legal situation. I said their designers take obvious inspiration from fan builds. Legal or not, it's immoral and a company the size of Lego should do better.@@bloodymarvelous4790
I was really bummed out that the original ideas set didn't make it. My son would have really loved it.
NGL. I'd be honored.
Yeah, I guess it's not necessarily a bad thing
But the feeling that they could have had their MOC as a set and make profit would stink
Imitation is indeed the most sincere form of flattery. But for Hasan at LEGO Ideas to tell us "“...inspiration for this design is not connected to your design” certainly takes some of the potential honor away. It seems to us that the inspiration is obvious and it would have been simple for them to do something different. This is in addition to the (at least) four clone brick companies that copied our bin arm design and are selling sets with it.
You must be specially challenged. Honored for no financial compensation or credit? 😂
i got this yesterday and i thought the exact same thing
also some tips for people who have this truck
1. remove the rubber band so you have better control over the arm
2. if you want to collect smaller bins, take off the black cushions on the grippers
i would also love if the entire arm assembly can reach out and grab carts at further distances
thanks
I don't really believe that Lego stole this idea from anyone. When making a garbage truck out of Lego pieces, there is only so much you can do regarding it's mechanism. Both models' mechanisms are obviously taken from the real life counterpart, so naturally a good mechanism in Lego would be heavily reminiscent of the way a real Garbage truck functions. Lego's Technic series prides it's self on realism both visually and mechanically. I don't think it would be too far off for them to create something similar to someone else's model just because that's the way something works in real life. Also the way the Technic model is built is different from the Lego Ideas model. The only similarity is the way it grabs, picks up and dumps a trashcan. This is of course because of what it's based on. Also, Lego has never really been know to steal designs from their fans to my knowledge. I feel like if they really wanted that exact mechanism and build to be in a set, they would just go through with making the Lego Ideas version a real one. They've never really had a problem doing that. I just think this is a coincidence due to them both being mechanically functioning garbage trucks.
@yamarlamar1080 The mechanism we designed does not actually function how a real garbage truck side-loading arm functions in real life. Those typically independent hydraulic actuation for the grab and lift (and other) movements. Or perhaps electric in the case of the Mack electric side-loader. We innovated a single action gear-based mechanism to mimic achieve the same function at minifig scale. This took a lot of design refinement and is only obvious in hindsight. Nothing like it existed for that purpose before we released our design.
You are right that there are differences in the truck design, but our claims are about the bin arm mechanism only.
Bro put more effort into this than I did on my English essay
@@scotthasse280Sorry to say this, but this style of arm is pretty old news actually.
The oldest example I can think of is this Technic set from 1997, which is coincidentally also a garbage truck: th-cam.com/video/D5s9NLB1OvI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IauAXUoEPQDNYZrJ
It uses a wire linkage to drive the grabbers instead of gears, but the basic principle of using one axle to power both a grabbing and lifting motion is the same.
I also used to take part in FLL Lego robot competitions throughout the 2010s and this kind of mechanism was pretty much the go-to standard for collecting objects off the ground. Here is an example of a robot using that kind of arm from 2009: th-cam.com/video/h3PS7nIihOw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=4lkjASNXdFidCsMk
Here is an entire playlist with similar designs, many of which use gears like you did, and several of which even use your design of having the rotation axle gear directly connect at a 90°angle: m.th-cam.com/video/PQI66KsRsqM/w-d-xo.html&pp=iAQB
In fact, this particular video from over 6 years ago is basically your exact design at a slightly bigger scale: th-cam.com/video/tS2v-uC0GOQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=cXn-z_qauzUXaBA2
These kinds of arms are incredibly useful for robotics competitions and people have probably built then in just about every shape imaginable for decades.
Now, to be clear, your particular design is still incredibly impressive for its miniaturization factor. In fact, I distinctly remember trying to build something similar at one point during my childhood, but not managing to get the mechanism remotely small enough, so the fact that you built one that can not only fit inside a minifig scale city set, but do so elegantly, is fucking amazing. But Lego didn't steal your hyper-minaturized design, they just built a similar arm at a more normal size based on a design that has been pretty well established for decades (at least in the space of Lego robotics)
@@hellothere_1257 No need to apologize. We're not claiming to have invented the mechanism, but we do believe the combination of scale, functionality, method of actuation, and purpose are novel and required significant innovation. Some of which you've pointed out in your post. I appreciate your detailed post with references, many of which I had not seen before.
The reality is that the (at least) four clone sets released, the numerous fan builders that have reverse engineered our design and set 42167 show that there has been plenty of market demand for a smoothly functional minifig scale side-loading garbage truck mechanism had one existed. But one did not exist until we released our design. Since then our specific design has been widely copied by Lepin, Xingbao and other clone companies. Set 42167 is slightly larger but has the same functionality, method of actuation and purpose as our design. There is no legal problem here with LEGO, as we have assigned LEGO rights to our idea per participation in LEGO Ideas.
However, LEGO has told us officially that "LEGO Ideas as a platform for fan submissions is not a platform that’s used by our internal teams as inspiration to create future sets. It’s critical to the integrity and success of LEGO Ideas that LEGO Ideas submissions are treated separately from our internal product development process and that these two processes do not overlap." (which I generally believe they do aspire to). But further "... inspiration for this design [set 42167] is not connected to your design". Honestly to me this seems disingenuous. I think even a casual observer who knows how passionate the LEGO designers are about researching the topic they are given to design can see there is inspiration from our design.
Yes. Next question?
To be completely accurate, it is not legally "stealing" since you wave any right when you apply to the Ideas program, but there are no less than 25 ideas that reached 10'000 supporters, didn't got approved, and somehow become a set less than a three years later...
Why do you dump the small bag in the pile with the rest of the bag?!?
They're all part of their bag, so it doesn't matter. What matters is keeping the numbered bags together and not mixing different numbered ones.
Real legends dump all the bags together anyway because that's what Lego is about
I thought everyone did that
You don’t?
@@brickstudiosYT But it is so much easier to find the smaller parts if they are not mixed in with the rest of them
7:37 the way the claw picked it up was so smooth 😅
Even if it was the same design, there’s only so many ways to connect Lego bricks and chances are this set could have been designed decades ago and just finally made it into production. So by the time the idea set was made Lego could have already been planning on making their similar build so they denied the idea set. Pretty simple
I built it it’s in my grandmas house the gear part for picking up the trash can was confusing I redid the gear part so many times once I cried
When I saw that garbage can made of Toad heads I was freaked out. Sure, some Minecraft pieces have appeared in other sets but I didn't think the same was happening to Mario already! Can't wait for one of the platform pieces to randomly appear in some Star Wars set or something.
I think a few of them popped up in a space employee gift recently
The blasphemy of you just dumping the smaller pieces on top of the big ones is like unforgivable.
this was the EXACT same thought I had about this set, I REALLY wanted the og garbage truck. I want a set like this but you can be damn sure I will NOT be buying this one
This is just how a garbage truck works, also it’s technic. The people who made the original set wanted it to be made into a set.
It's not actually how a garbage truck works, at least not with that specific mechanism. The base concept is the same but actual garbage trucks use a 3-DOF (plus gripper) hydraulically actuated arm rather than a single-action locked-gear grabbing arm. However, this mechanism sees a LOT of use elsewhere.
they done same on the orrery (42179) but the first design was in 2013 by maxifigure and in 2016 JKBrickworks upgraded it.
fun fact: all orreries lack elliptical orbit for the seasons.
Some thing to take into account is lego sets are in development for 3 to 4 years and in this case the new offset gear development was in that fase before the idea's set was submitted so to make that claim they stolen the idea seems that they didn't for reasons mentioned imo.
Our Ideas set was submitted more than five years ago, so your timeline is off somewhat.
@@scotthasse280 I was pointing out about the offset gear was in development as it wasn't available to use in the design you're submitted so my timeline has some merit, go and cry to mommy sook!! Also set #42078 released 6 years ago have a look at the "B" model had no offset gears so to improve on this concept with the side loading mechanism they developed the newer gear to achieve this therefore 6 years in development, but hey if you think you're got a rock solid case sign up a lawyer and sue I don't give a f#@K.
1:12 you know what else is huge?
What
The axis that connects the rear door with the body 10:06 has 2 round pieces on its left end, but nothing on the right. I made it look symmetrical by using the round elements from the left-over pieces and added them on the right end of the axis.
The set also has an issue, that the printed tile next to the grabber is pushed loose by the grabber. And the elastic already broke in my set.
The system to lift up the garbage can is called a manipulator, I have used Lego manipulators in WRO last year. I can say these have been around for a lot of time. And as the top comment said, Lego can sometimes deny projects they are already planning. So I don’t think that that Lego copied it since the mechanic has been around for a while and a Lego garbage truck does sound like something Lego would release on its own
when you submit your work to the Ideas page, you agree with the conditions and TLG can use your work by some time, this is how it works then - there were few more issues with "stealing" the idea, look to the latest Snow White's set :)
I got that lego technic garbage truck 🎉
If i remember correctly, this set was in production when the ideas truck uploaded.
We originally uploaded our truck design to LEGO Ideas in 2019, long before this set or the actual Mack electric garbage truck existed. Not sure if you are thinking of our recent BrickLink Designer Program series 4 participation?
@@scotthasse280 ahh i see. My bad! That is very suspicious on Legos part... hmm
What’s the link for the original truck? I’m not asking for technic but I’m asking for the green at the start please.
Here's the Lego ideas link for it:
ideas.lego.com/projects/7d7f4e15-55e7-44c4-bb30-3a66b9cc0598
@@brickstudiosYT I see it now, but is there any way to buy it/purchase it for yourself?
@@rollsterwit never became a real set, so no.
@@ArmundJayno but you can build it yourself
@@rollsterwunfortunately since Lego owns the rights to the set for many years after the submission it never became a set, but it’s currently competing on Lego’s other program called BrickLink Designer to become an actual set once again. Go check it out there and maybe it’ll win :)
I've long loathed Lego Technic Panels for anything other that aesthetic covering. I prefer to use more Technic Beas rather than the panels to acheive smoother more functional purpose.
8:00 amazing explanation there man!
Debris getting stuck is a real life issue! When I worked garbage it was normal to have to open the side door to clear debris.
why does Toad look like that?!?!
Enjoying your contents so far but can i suggest that you invert your camera such that your hands are seen at the bottom of the video? its kinda hard to follow the vids if it were to continue like this (in this video). Nevertheless, continue the good work!
I wish these vidoes would be rotated 180 degrees so I wasn’t seeing it upside down
Try putting your monitor right side up. That might help.
@@bloodymarvelous4790 I don’t have a lizard.
they probably made the same mechanism because that’s the way you make a garbage truck claw thing 🐐
@Underkill635 how this mechanism works is actually not how a real garbage truck works. Set 42167, the cloned copies of our set, and the numerous passionate builders that have enthusiastically praised and re-created our design show there has been plenty of market demand for a functional side loading bin arm if one had existed. But one did not exist until we released our design. It is only obvious in hindsight.
I think it's a stretch to say this was copied. It's not exactly like a garbage truck is some crazy concept, and the mechanism isn't exactly complicated either. Replicating what real garbage trucks do with simple mechanical principles doesn't mean it's stolen. Plus several features aren't shared between them, including some features of the mechanism its self.
Could there have been a chance that it was copied? Sure. But technic is known for replicating vehicles and their functions, so it's a stretch to say that they copied someone who had the same goal.
If anything, I think it's more likely that Lego had probably planned to make this set years in advance (as they do with many non-ip projects) and rejected the ideas set due to the overlap.
The thing is that there was a 5 year gap between the Lego ideas set and this one coming out which is much longer than usual set development length.
Also the Mack garbage truck model that the official Lego set is based on wasn’t even around when the Lego ideas set released so I don’t think it’s possible for it to have been in development when the Lego ideas set got denied.
I think this warrants a look at the LEGO Ideas ToS. LEGO very well could have "stolen" the mechanical design from the Ideas submission, but legally still have the rights to it due to their ToS claiming some form of ownership over all submissions regardless of status.
When you opened the first bag then opended the mini bag and put in the same pile hurt my soul, who doesnt sort their lego bags?
How companies probably think: if it’s not a patent, it’s not a copy
As someone said below in the very moment you summit an idea on lego ideas the concept is owned by lego, but is evident that they are making lot of sets based on lego ideas. Personally I really think that these legos should address some credit to the original idea submit independently the theme. That could make fans more happy and could make look lego more honest. For sure in some cases I am sure that Lego may been working on some things much before the lego ideas summits
As much as Lego look cool, they are still a multimi/billionaire company. Do this kind of thing is just normal for all companies.
Why wouldn't they coppied it? They have right to do it.
When you enter LEGO Ideas Set there's whole article about that LEGO can use any ideas that are put on the site.
I own this set it’s actually one of my favourite in my city that black technic piece that slightly sticks out is meant to be the part you try to align flesh with the recycling bin so the arms can grab it at a proper angle so the bin doesn’t really tilt or fall that much if that makes sense
The IDEAS range is for sets that are outside what LEGO would normally produce. This is why they don't approve modular style buildings, City type sets, Technic sets, or any set that they have a range for at the time like Castle, Pirates, or Architecture.
If you look at the IDEAS sets that got approved, like the Motorized Lighthouse, The Tree House, Home Alone, Globe, Typewriter, Grand Piano, Insects, A-Frame Cabin, Sesame Street, and the Red Telephone Box, they don't fit in any of the existing ranges.
Other sets (re)launched certain themes. The Saturn V was the first NASA set, followed by the ISS and Women of NASA. The Medieval Blacksmith relaunched the Castle theme. Pirates of Barracuda Bay rebooted the Pirates theme. But now that they're part of normal LEGO releases, with the Space Shuttle, Lunar Lander, and Mars Rover; Lion Knights Castle and Medieval Town Square; and Eldorado Fortress, those IDEAS submissions will be dead on arrival.
The Big Bang Theory, Central Perk, Seinfeld, and The Office are all in the IDEAS range, with The Friends Apartments being the only one outside IDEAS. So I'm assuming they won't be approving any more TV recording stage designs for IDEAS anymore.
This is one of the best sets for the money. Fun to build, fun to play with, and looks good on display. I wish there were more sets like this with as much functionality.
The original one is white/green, witch is WM, and the copy is a mack LR electric
Please can you show how to build the claw that You made ?
can you make a microphone stand with lego?
Yes. Its not just a toy company, its a $11.8 Billion company. The beast somehow needs to get fed.
So legos not allowed to make a toy truck the only way possible
Not only this truck but also 31152 Astronaut was submitted in Ideas, rejected (although got 10 000 supporters) and later released as 3in1 creator set. Slightly different but still...
It would be interesting to merge the official with the unofficial. Have the new peice and also make it the more reliable version. Would be interesting
How much is set in stores ?
It costs $32.99
It would suck if Lego was "stealing", but I'm not convinced they are. I guess, I'd be curious to see how one of those pinchers works in real life. Maybe we should look it up. 🤣.Can you imagine how much it would suck, if every time a person built something using a technique, no one else could ever do it that way? Lego even gives away their instructions online. I think you nailed it when you mentioned inspiration. I also believe it's possible for more than one person to come up with similar ideas independently. Great video, very thought provoking!🔥
2:17 technic without gears ≠ technic.
imagine being so good even Lego copies you and yet fails.
Interesting,I think Lego has coped a little of there set because real trucks arm are pretty hard to copy in to the Lego form. Great video btw!
its entirely possible that set 42167 was in design when the father/son reach 10k on their lego ideas build, and thats why it was rejected/not approved
*sees title* Lego isn't stealing people's designs. It's just the other people's designs inspired lego to make these official sets
Then it supposed To be in the idea theme?
There no denying that lego steals fan designs
it's completely different, one is technic and the other is brick built
Our claim is about the bin arm mechanism only. Of course yes the trucks themselves are different, and LEGO has made lots of garbage truck sets in the past.
its almost like thats how a garbage truck works
The only reason they could steal it, is so the Ideas designer doesnt get royalties on the set. but LEGO love the community so i'd assume this genuinely was under development before the Idea was published to the site
Even if it wasn't, the IDEAS submission never had a chance of being approved. It was basically a LEGO City set with some Technic functionality. There already were LEGO City garbage trucks in 2010, 2012, and 2016. This set would not have sold well as an IDEAS set.
They aren't coping as as soon as you submit something to ideas Lego owns it
I have a say which tell if you tought about something, high are the chances that someone else, elsewhere, thought about the exact same thing,or similar one. It's even truer with Lego where they have a limited (still a lot) variety of parts.
?
Didn't the father and son not copy it from a real dumping truck too though?
Like, if i submit a square house with a triangle roof and it doesn't get approved, and the very next model house has the same shape as mine, it wouldn't bother me that much as i still have my lil' house.
It's not copied because Lego made a working garbage truck, it's that the mechanism between the two is so similar.
Our mechanism does not work the same as a real dumping truck which uses hydraulics and independent actuation of the grab and dump motions. It took significant innovation to achieve consistent results at minifig scale with a single motion. Nothing like what we designed existed before in terms of scale, purpose, method, and function. Set 42167 and all of the clone sets that use our bin arm design show that there has been plenty of market demand for a functional LEGO side-loading arm if one had existed. But one did not exist until we released our design, which is only obvious in hindsight.
This product is licensed so they would have had to significantly alter the physical design of it so that it resembled the vehicle in real life.
I literally pointed this out to my mom the day this came out
it makes me mad how gentle u are with the bags and box
This type of grab-and-lift mechanism really isn’t anytung new.
In fact, here's a technic truck from 1997 that uses the exact same principle: th-cam.com/video/F28CSc1NKB4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8hYm_BCFoZzeONk0d
The original Ideas set is incredibly impressive, but what's impressive about it isn’t the mechanism itself, but the fact that they minaturized it to fit elegantly into a minifig scale city set! While it is sad to see the original snubbed in favor of a less impressive (due to its larger size) technic set, Lego didn't steal the one aspect that actually makes the set as cool as it is.
Soo, do you neeed the garbage truck need that rubber band?
Greetings from Poland :).how name this box on Lego elements box on wall ?
2:03 bro did mining off camera💀
PS: and 4:48
Yeah I tend to forget to press record for time lapses 😂
It’s possible that LEGO took the design, but the way the mechanism works isn’t new to the Ideas submission so there’s no way to be certain.
There are some old sets (8094, 8868, 8479, and 9736) that were much larger and clunkier, used pneumatics, cable linkages, or much longer gear trains, along with motors, and had grab and lift or grab and drop functions versus grab and dump. Can you provide an example of something of a similar scale, method, function, and actuation pre-dating our Ideas submission?
We're not aware of anything even close to our design prior to us releasing our bin arm design, and the bin arm in set 42167 is very close to our design in terms of scale, method (basically the same gear train), function (dump a trash can and return it) and actuation (a single hand-operated motion to lift, dump, return and release).
Also for our design to not have inspired the LEGO design, it implies that a Technic designer was assigned the job to work on a side-loading garbage truck project and had no awareness of our side-loading bin arm mechanism, including any of:
* Our original LEGO Ideas submission
* Our popular Reddit r/lego post
* The JK Brickworks video highlighting our bin arm mechanism
* The Beyond the Brick video highlighting our truck project
* The Lepin clone set using our bin arm mechanism
* The Xingbao clone sets using our bin arm mechanism
* The other clone sets using our bin arm mechanism
* The intellectual property that LEGO owns (assigned by us) which includes the digital design and building instructions of our truck and mechanism.
And that they did no research once being assigned the project that would create awareness of any of those things. And then they created the set 42167 bin arm mechanism independently. That seems a bit far-fetched to me. If you've seen any of the LEGO designer videos you know how passionate they are and how they research the design topic they are given.
Is it just me or opening? The bags are super satisfying in a Lego set
I was thinking about this other day, I saw that indie design, and I swear both official lego ones this year, this technic one and the lego city recycle truck, it’s like this one stole functionality, and city one has exact “look” of it, crazy, I will never put my moc’s in ideas, catch me on bricklink 😂
Lego bought Bricklink back in 2019...
Wow this set is utter garbage, another waste of funding
As a Lego fan and observer who hasn’t watched the video I’m going to say ….. yes, quite obviously.
Heil garbage trucks' arms are 90% piston driven (like a with a back hoe) but a timing chain and moving pulley for the arm to rotate 90° at max height.
LEGOs was actualy pretty close, the other was a more "dated" version. Modern world, that gear system is more useful for something like a wench (less cance of a gear breaking than a belt)
If Lego ideas projects don't become true, knock off brands will release the sets earlier 😢
The Lego community has not read the ideas guidelines. If you post an idea on lego ideas lego owns the rights to your moc for 6-7 years
The creator of the original designs knows this, they just want acknowledgement from Lego that they used part of their design as far as I can tell. (Never gonna happen)
I find it funny non Lego designers make better thing most of the time
The mechanism is identical and at the same time it's different, lol
The fan design was so much better; they even came with a design for the bins to remain closed except when inclines so it opens when the truck picks it and closes when the truck puts it down.
The fan designed garbage truck is now a project you can vote for in the bricklink designer program; one last chance to turn it into an official Lego set!
Well considering lego stole the idea of building blocks in the first place, I wouldn’t be surprised 🤷🏻♂️
These colors that are all over the place are hurting my eyes.
I was wondering about that... I saw that come through and i instantly remembered the ideas build... mainly because I tried reproducing the mechanism at home since i thought it was really neat. Hm.
I would rather struggle to copy the exact design without instructions and my small collection than buy technic
I saw this father & son design at Brickworld Chicago in 2019. I thought it was great & should be a set.
A lot of ppl thought the same and were ready to buy the set. Plain and Simple, LEGO screwed those designers!
I think they decided to reconsider the set but they failed in making the mechanism.
8:08 ok i was thinking about getting the lego if i get it when i am building it i will just not put the rubber band in the build
for me I think the reason why it got denied is because it would be too complicated. Like who are the city sets usually made for? like 6-9 year olds. So making a set with wierd connections and new gears to young kids who dont understand it. It would probably be too hard and thats why they made it a technic set
I dont think its stolen for a few reasons. 1 lego ideas sets that make it in are usually something unique or something from a entirely different theme. A garbage truck feels really close to city and indeed lego city has made garbage trucks before. 2 it would mean they had to reverse innovate and literally make a design worse. i dont see why they would steal a design just to make it rely on a rubber band as well as use a ramp to move the trash to the back area when the original worked so much better.
They clearly state that you moc will become under lego right meaning they can do whatever they want and you cant say a damn thing. Thats cheap but thats why i dont support nor post moc on their site.
Still the same video title even after it was clarified that Lego didn’t steal anything?