He still mind controlled his girlfriend to keep her from breaking up with him and take advantage of her in his car...that's messed up enough, specially considering he is 17.
the fact that we got an episode about him being angsty and finding love again instead of an episode where wendy and grunkle stan bond (a legit scrapped episode) infuriates me to no end
@@tiablue9106 Do you remember the name of that video so I can see the rest of the rejected unmade Gravity Falls scripts? I always thought the board game "What Could Go Wrong?" from The Last Mabelcorn hinted at that being a rejected script idea, when Dipper says "This should take up the next 21 minutes."
Robbie is a meh character for me. It wouldn’t be so bad if it was just him being a stereotypical teenager but then he gets into fights with a literal twelve year old… kinda petty dude.
@@HackiePuffs , honestly even if Gravity Falls didn’t keep Mabel and Dipper 12 years old, and had them being as old as Alex Hirsh and his twin sister, and having Wendy being the same age as the voice actress that voice acts her then I’d never see them working out even as a couple because Dipper is like a childish version of Gregory House down to them both purely intellectuals that thinks emotions are beneath them, and being purely objectivists in the pursuit of science and knowledge is why he’d never work out with a tomboy stoner.
@@HackiePuffs I'm personally indifferent to Wendip (I have my own Dipper ship, and it's actually with an OC), but 3 years doesn't seem like that bad of an age difference, especially when they're both under 18, lowering the squick factor a bit.
Robbie is one of those static bad guy characters. He’s pretty much the same throughout the entire show and doesn’t show any real desire to be different. Pacifica’s development was way better, but her arc didn’t continue past one episode, of course.
@@faeryfangirl01 true.. wish she had more appearances or hung out with mabel and candy and grenda after tht, or at least was part of the bunch who bid the twins goodbye when they left gravity falls
If I were to rewrite this episode, I'd maybe go about it like this: Mable does steal the love serum and gives it to Robbie and Tambrie, but it actually is temporary and shown to be so throughout the episode instead of just being retconned into being temporary. Not only that, but it's a "faulty" version of the love potion and so it wears off instead of just disappearing after a few hours. That means that Robbie and Tambrie start becoming themselves more and more as the potion wears off over time. Mabel realizes this and tries to get them with the permanent love spray throughout the episode. The "love god" finds out about this and tries to stop her. The rest of the episode plays out pretty similarly, but when Mabel is about to make it to Robbie and Tambrie on the hill, she is told to stop by the love god, too tired to stop her physically after getting hit by the Stan balloon. They talk about why Mabel is doing this and, after a full explanation, the love god says that Robbie doesn't need someone to love him, he needs to become better and for someone to believe he can become better. Finding a romantic partner is just a band-aid, it's not a real solution and really undermines the entire relationship. He also calls out Mabel's selfish desires to get Robbie to have a romantic partner, likens it to her idea that a relationship is necessary and that she is projecting her need for people to like her on to Robbie. Maybe this can be said later, too, but it's a perfect throughline for the themes of the episode and bringing it all up together seems right to me. Maybe end this section off with a joke about how the love god only told her this because she wouldn't buy another love merchandise from him. In order to round off the love god character. He's a guy who profits off of the idea that "loving all the time is great and fun" but has more selective and careful opinions on love that he would never tell his customers. Then Mabel gives the potion back, sees Robbie and Tambrie freed from the initial potion and goes to apologize to them. Robbie gets really angry to her and threatens her with bodily harm, but realizes he pulled the same brainwashing trick on Wendy and that causes him enough shame that he can't bring himself to be angry at her any further. Robbie then asks Tambrie to be his girlfriend, because he actually grew to like her throughout their time together. Tambrie declines immediately, though. She knows how much of a douche he is, and, since it wasn't even quite the real her the entire day, she tells him that any "love" they had was not genuine. However, she says that Robbie had moments of being really sweet to her throughout the day and she believes that it wasn't just the love potion. They can start a new relationship, one in which they are strictly friends and she helps him become better. And they STAY friends throughout the rest of the show. Robbie needed a friend to help guide him to a better path, not a romantic partner to help take the pain of being lonely away. Them getting together would undermine that. Also, they tell Mabel to stay away for a while. They don't hate her, but they feel abused and don't want to see her for some time. Something like that, at least.
I love this so much. If there’s one thing that people keep messing up when it comes to love, is that they always rely on a romantic partner to solve all of their problems when the real work comes from doing it yourself. From personal experience, guidance from a family or friend is much more effective than guidance from a partner when it comes to healing and growing. My only issue with your story is that Tambry doesn’t really have any qualities that are beneficial for Robbie’s development, therefore she can’t help him find a better path. A friend who could help him would’ve definitely been Wendy, but you already know what happened between them.
The way Robbie's character was treated and misshandled is attrocious: he goes from a bully that tries to beat up a 12 year old over his own insecurities to a creep and an abuser that is willing to mind control his girlfriend to keep her from leaving him and take advantage of her in his car, but instead of actually facing real consequences for it, the show decides to portray him as a victim of Dipper's actions that deserves pitty and love. Worst of all is that, as a bully, he is not even likable because, unlike Pacífica who at least is showed to have solid reasons for being the way she is by living with emotional, abusive and controlling parents, we see that Robbie has a wonderful family, friends, the girlfriend of his dreams and is successful as an artist and in his boy band. He isn't the kind of bully that has a hard life and behaves like that because he is taught to and eventually gets better, he is just a douche bag because of his own insecurities and instead of appreciating everyone who loves and admires him, takes everything for granted and spits all over everything he has. Robbie could have been redeemed if the show actually showed him acknowledging his wrongdoings and feeling remorse over them and him making the effort of becoming a better person, but that never happens, and instead portrays him as a victim that needs to be pittied (even if he is still blaming and wishing dead on a 12 year old), and gets instantly forgiven, even if he did NOTHING to improve himself. This is not how you write bullies in stories like these, people, and the fact that the writers thought Pacífica needed more redemption than Robbie, when she had done far less than he ever did, is actually concerning. At least Pacífica's worst actions were teasing Mabel, since the ghost incident is her parents' fault, which she doesn't even agree with and is being psychollogically conditioned into obedience because she is being abused. Robbie litterally mind controlled his girlfriend and tried to take advantage of her and tried to beat up a 12 year old, when he's 17 years old.
I think another way it could’ve been handled is if the show used Robbie for a “not everyone can be redeemed” type message. I can’t remember if they did that though but I don’t think they did.
Pacifica's crimes were more naunced. It is just as much about what she didn't do than her acts of active torment towards the Pines family. She never tried to use her influence to help the townspeople. She was complicit in allowing the perpetuation of the Northwest Coverup. She knowingly conscripted Dipper to deny the Lumberjack's ghost his unearthly revenge through cohersion and bribery rather than honestly and effectively communicating to Dipper what she knew about the ghost BEFORE things got out of hand. (Rewatch the episode, she and her dad planned it all TOGETHER in the flashback montage.) Robbie sucked as a character, but he wasn't written as a redeemable character. He was Dipper's antagonistic rival. Robbie was a vehicle for conflict. He was underdeveloped and underutilized, but he wasn't a very complicated character. They retroactive characterized Robbie as "The bleeding heart/ who wears their heart on their sleeve" for the zodiac, a contrived gimmick that misdirected the audience and justified Bill's obsession with the townsfolk. Robbie's crimes were deeply personal towards Wendy, and she forgave him off screen, or perhaps in the moment when everyone joined hands for the zodiac.
Even if Robbie is undeniably worse, neither he nor Tom needed to stick around in their respective shows after they got dumped. They were fundamentally put into the story as "the jerky romantic false lead," and if you took "romance plot" out of it, they'd have nothing else to do.
The main difference is tom at least had an arc and had a likable personality, and great chemistry with the rest of the cast. He's also one of the only likable characters left by s4, if he had been cut out....im not sure ppl would have much left good to say in terms of the characters. If the writers hadn't prioritized the romance how they did Tom had multiple opportunities to be more then a love interest and contribute to more of the main plot, especially in terms of the monster stuff. (Though this is something they did to EVERY side love interest unfortunately) Robbie...less so.
@@jlwiseman98 I have a fondness for Tom, and was about to defend it, but now I don’t feel the need to. Your comment said everything that there is to say.
@@jlwiseman98 absolutely, Tom definitely had a really likable and entertaining personality, and while I’ll guiltily admit I quite liked Robbie when I watched gravity falls as a kid, only Tom holds up as a likable guy. Also, as the writing went down the drain and all the other characters became shitty, Tom was legitimately one of the few characters that made the show worth watching.
Thank you for pointing out the problems with Thompson. Having been on the receiving end of "let's make the insecure guy hurt himself because it's funny and we don't care about how he feels" it is disturbing when a show does this and not point out how cruel that can be.
The only reason I never forgot this episode is because of the legendary lines, "LOVE GOD SIGN MY FACE!" "ONLY IF YOU SIGN MINE BABY, LETS GET WEIRD!!!"
Robbie's just a jerk and it's okay for a character to just be a jerk. At the end of the day Robbie never really seems to want to be a better person, so there's no reason he would become a better person.
The problem isn't that he is a jerk, the problem is that the show keeps him behaving like a jerk for no reason and the narrative tries to force you to feel sorry for him and wanting the best for him even when he is still behaving like a jerk. That doesn't work when Robbie doesn't feel any remorse, doesn't admit his wrongdoings and blames it all on a 12 year old kid and mopes until someone fixes his romantic life. If Robbie chooses to still be a jerk, that's fine, Preston, Priscilla, Filbrick and Bill are, but the show doesn't try to force you to like them or encourage them for it, the narrative portrays them as actual jerks, but with Robbie the narrative tries to portray him as a victim when he isn't.
@@dracoangelrojo the only time I felt like the narrative was trying to push me into feeling sympathy for Robbie was in the love God. Every other episode he's clearly portrayed as a jerk, and I think saying he behaves like a jerk for no reason is kind of reductive, he behaves that way because that's who he is. He is an insecure aggressive childish unpleasant person, and at no point in the entire show does he ever say any indication that he is interested in being better or even remotely self-aware. The love God just makes us feel sorry for him to drive the plot of that episode which in itself I think was just a way of wrapping up all plot relevance Robbie had so we didn't have to deal with him as much anymore. At the end of the episode he's no longer as aggressive because he's getting laid so we don't have to worry about him as the recurring bully. He's in a relationship so we don't have to worry about any more Wendy drama. He's just completely relegated to being a background character which is fine he had served his purpose in the story and it was time to put him back in the garage. It's not the best episode and while most of the unscrupulous stuff that happens seems to come from a point of neither not maliciousness the show really sends a dodgy message about consent and never does anything about it. But one contrivance in an already questionable episode isn't enough to start thinking about redemption arc
@@noremac7216 I agree with the first part that Robbie was a jerk on most episodes and the narrative only tries to force you to feel sorry for him in The Love God. To me the problem is that the narrative in that episode tries to make him look like he only deserves to be loved, portraying him as a victim that you have to feel sorry for...but that doesn't work when we see no improvement from him in said episode, we just see him as a jerk that still behaves like a jerk throwing a temper tantrum until he gets what he wants and calls that episode a "redemtpion", that's why it doesn't work for me.
@@moona3206 Because the narrative isn't chill about children in the entire show regardless if you're an adult or a 12 year old, Dipper, Pacífica and even Gideon, the last one being 9 years old, payed consequences for their actions the hard way regardless of them being children.
@@bigmacsama I mean, when you remember Amity "Currently One of Two Owl House Characters to Have a Decent at Worst Redemption Arc (Hint The Other is Also Female)" Blight exists… th-cam.com/video/-t91gbiKKNY/w-d-xo.html
@@Nameless82284 really? the only 1 I can think of is "did you clean it" seriously, no one is using it, it's just meat, heck, I say use it as snacks if you want.
@@stm7810 And you know the whole moral issue that someone's family member had their loved one's grave basically defiled and their remains defaced to be used as a fucking table, as well as the issue that the person who died is probably seeing this from the afterlife and is seriously pissed. Like imagine from their shoes, imagine you were the corpse and after being given to the funeral directors rather than being respectfully buried, you find out they turned your head and hands into ashtrays and ate everything else. Would that make you happy?
@@venusstar2963 Yes, it would make me happy, first because I actually get to somehow live without a brain, which is the whole thing needed for living since I'm just paterns in a brain, and because I was eaten and useful for smart humans rather than by worms in a dark dirty hole or worse yet, filled with toxins to be preserved in said hole killing plants and animals. also why would my family care? they don't own me, I'm not their slave. and my body isn't their property, if they wanted it they should have asked or grabbed it first. the whole point of a corpse is that it's just that, a lifeless pile of parts that can be recycled, either as new organs for someone else, research experiments, food or a table.
He needed his ask kicked i did like when dipper summon rumbel his video game charther too life just too fight robbie my favort part was seeing him slam robbie too the ground just for him too get a tasted of his own medicine
@@paulogaspar8295It depends on the story. Maybe for some characters, realizing a relationship with a good therapist is what they need for their arc. Its definitely what helped me haha
On the show's defense, Love God or Cupid was a chaotic evil being who sometimes matched people just to watch them suffer and everything around them being destroyed. So the potion thing makes sense, Gravity Falls has shown too much dark stuff to use the "it's a kid's show" excuse. Tambry didn't deserve it, but that's how it is.
the thing is I don't think it was clarified if the love god had some divine power that tells him who ppl are "supposed" to be with, or if he's just a dick like Cupid from Fairly Odd Parents who straight-up says he just pairs up whoever he wants just because. I guess it was implied but I think it should've been clearer
According to Alex Hirsch, in the DVD commentary, the idea behind the mind control episode was that Wendy wasn't being controlled at all. Yes, there was a subliminal message on the cd (like many have in real life), but Robbie didn't know about it, and it wasn't even affecting Wendy at all. Dipper was just being paranoid. Hence, both boys messed up their chances with Wendy in that episode: Robbie, by ripping off a song, and lying to her about having written it himself, and Dipper, by letting his jealousy & paranoia get the better of him, and going out of his way to ruin their relationship.
they rlly should've put that in the episode if that was the idea. Considering everything (spooky case, robbie's expressions, the lyrics literally mentioning hypnosis, wendy doing a complete 180 after hearing the song, etc etc.), I still think Dipper's reaction was pretty justified. Also saying Robbie didn't know abt the subliminal message confuses me 'cause iirc when Dipper shows it to Wendy and she asks Robbie he acts guilty like he was fully aware of it and just didn't want her finding out
Then they definitely could’ve done that better, especially with all the subtle story elements they had hinting to it actually being brainwashing along with all of the crazy stuff that goes on the town. Knowing all what Dipper knew about Gravity Falls at the time, I would’ve been sus too
Well I really understood what Alex Hirsch meant with the episode, Wendy accepted Robbie back because she was touched by him writing they song and not because the CD made her. All the suspicious stuff were for the audience, they should think that maybe Dipper was rigth until the end. However the fact this episode remains controversial means the writers didn't do the best job or maybe that was their goal all along. Idk.
One thing that got to me is that he's AWARE wendy wouldnt date him because he's 12. In the episode where he challenges dipper to a fight he literally says something like "you think she'll choose some kid over me" or something along those lines. Yet he still views dipper as a threat. That is weird.
Robby is kinda a creep. He fricking brain washed Wendy with his song. Bruh he was also jealous of a freaking 12 year old. The whole love triangle thing they were trying to do was extremely annoying.
@Kevin Green dude it’s for entertainment I just see their bad flaws as what their personality is and see how it could be used to entertain me I just didn’t care who deserved redemption or feel anger about it
I’ve had a Robbie headcanon for a while that the reason he’s the opposite of his parents is that they laughed off the death of somebody he cared about like a grandparent. It’s probably completely wrong and doesn’t excuse his awful behavior but is an interesting concept I think!
I can see it. Like they tried seeing the positive side of things but unknowingly making Robbie feel like his sadness or grief isn’t valid. And since he can’t communicate his emotions well he let it bottle up and have him become who he is
@@Regu269 yes but he acts like a miserable person a teenager tends to be sad or angry for having a hard life but robbie has a happy family and friends and love from his girlfriend it just makes no sense.
Cemeteries are actually generally made to hang out in. A lot of times they're called "memorial gardens" or something like that because the intention is for people to spend time in them. As long as you're not damaging things or being disrespectful in the space there's really nothing wrong with it.
Because if Kitty separated Pacifica from her parents, the fandom would want their (Kitty if you see this, I'm sorry if this isn't the right pronoun set, I just default to they/them when I don't know someone's pronouns) head on a spike.
I think it might have something to do with him being an all-powerful god of sorts but was fooled multiple times by literal children, but tbh it's not like Dipper and Mabel were smarter or anything, but more because Bill just couldn't see what funky shit that they came up with coming probably.
@@antoniomariamacri7500 Has has *been* fooled by two kids still though, in the end it was Stan and Ford that beat him in the end but he did fall for Mabel and Dipper's shenanigans before.
The writing definitely destroyed Robbie’s character because they either had a weird direction for him to go, or they just panicked last minute and just did it as they went along. But yeah, again I’ve not seen this episode, not that I can recall. Maybe I saved myself from the misery it had, but I definitely did see a good chunk of GF when it was airing new episodes. But yeah, Robbie didn’t deserve a good ending after that
If I remember correctly the writers were surprised by how popular the teenagers were and decided to make another episode with them in the foreground. Pretty sure that they had to come up with something for Robbie because it wouldn't make much sense to exclude him from a "teen" episode.
I don't get why we give redemption arcs to those who genuinely don't deserve it. White diamond from Steven universe got one and she was literally space Hitler.
Loki from the mcu was also an space hitler and got an redemption arc. People think that an character being charismatic = character must be forgiven for everything he did.
I agree, in fact, something that always bugged me about Steven Universe was the fact that they villanized Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond after it was clearly showed that she was ABUSED by all the other diamonds and despite all of this, tried to save the earth from them after trying to resolve everything peacefully, yet the show FORGIVES the abusers but not the victim. Like, litterally, we see all the characters ending up hating Pink after she was a victim to the diamonds and after she sacrificed to protect the earth and her family, yet despite this, the ones who get so easily forgiven were the diamonds, the space dictators AND Pink's abusers, and they all end up on good terms with Steven and the gems, but they NEVER forgive Rose for it. What the heck?
@@dracoangelrojo that was definitely not a good lesson to teach kids. Reminds me of the episode of bobs burgers where Bob apologized to his father even though the dad's a complete douchebag.
Controversial opinion- I think Dipper could’ve taken Robbie if they actually fought. Robbie seems like the kind of guy I could have beaten up as a twelve year old.
The way I see it, his terrible redemption is just an extension of Mable Syndrome. The show never makes Robbie out to seem like we should actually sympathize with him. He's a low-level asshole who's role is to be an antagonist to Dipper who due to being so low-level can't really be defeated the way a normal villain could be. He wasn't really a bad character, because he played the specific role he was given well. Because his "villainy" was so low-tier I don't think he's a character who "doesn't deserve redemption". He just would need a GOOD redemption arc to make it work. He needed a chance to grow out of his emo phase and develop into a better person. Instead, Mabel decided to force the issue and because Mabel can do no wrong, the entire universe conspired to make her solution work immediately, while glossing over all the unfortunate implications involved.
actually, according to Alex H. Himself the CD Robbie used had no actual magic powers and Robbie had no knowledge of the backmask, the reason Wendy decided to give him another chance is that she thought the idea of him writing a song for her was sweet, In which he actually just stole a song with plans to woo her, Im not justifying him but he had no brainwashing intentions, just deceptions about writing a song, Alex said if there was anything he could have redone in this episode it would be explaining this better
I hate that it pretty much seems like Alex Hirsch wants to lessen Robbie bad deeds, since it was never mentioned in the episode I prefer to use death of the author to headcanon that Robbie did know. I prefer Robbie to be a bad guy.
Please just give me a plot-line where the supposed "Love potion" turns out to be a "Confidence potion" that just gives you the power you lacked to ask that one person out that you've been too afraid to ask
Well that reminds me a little bit of Hey Arnold. Only that was the opposite. Helga wanted an anti love potion because her feelings for Arnold made her act weird. In the end the potion was obviously fake.
Best way to reconstruct this trope. Have the "crush" be an Aromantic Asexual whose immune to the love potion and gets pissed and the character is viewed as wrong for making it.
Right...cause that's what we need more of in kids cartoons, specific sexually to characters when children give absolutely no shits about a character's sexuality...and ppl wonder why pedophilia is so rampant especially nowadays
@@TheKillerEmcee So you're saying that if someone holds no interest in having a romantic relationship with someone, nor a sexual, intimate one, they're soulless. Sure thing, bud.
A thing that bothered me here is that the fact that when Robbie threatened Dipper, Mabel was indifferent and didn't bother protecting her brother from some insecure jerk but on the flip side Dipper went out his way to help Mabel destroy Pacifica's family name when she berated Mabel and almost got detained in Gitmo for it. Don't forget, despite being a jerk to her brother, Mabel still wanted Robbie to be happy and gave him a girlfriend despite not deserving it while Dipper hated Pacifica even long after her rivalry with Mabel ended. One thing you left out is that Mabel literally forgot her lesson of not meddling in love life in Roadside attraction.
Apart from the "Mabel forgot her lesson in the roadtrip attraction" thing, I completely agree with you Mabel should have been called out so many times through the series
@@icecreamhero2375 That's King's point: that Roadside Attraction is evidence that Mabel learnt nothing in the Love God because she goes right back at mendling in other people's lives without their consent.
@@icecreamhero2375 Eh, to me both episodes are terrible (except Stan's subplot in The Love God, that's easily the top of the entire series when it comes to comedy, hands down). I'm glad you enjoyed the first one tho!
The episode where Robbie decides to fight Dipper especially bothers me, that I'm surprised you didn't bring up these parts: the fact that Stan, Mabel, and Soos stood by and didn't try to intervene or anything whilst Dipper was getting fucking threatened by a kid four years older than him! I get that Stan is meant to be irresponsible and it's played off for laughs a lot, but jfc, he didn't step in to say fucking anything while his 12yo nephew was getting threatened to be beat up by his fucking employee's boyfriend?! And worse, the show makes a big joke out of it with Stan wanting to place bets on it. It's so fucking sadistic even for him. There was Dipper getting physically insulted and thrown right into a bin in front of Stan, and yet he didn't do anything!! But as soon as Mabel and the rest of the family gets insulted by Pacifica in a way that's not even a big deal in that golf episode, Stanley is ready to fucking punch her. Seriously... the shows double standard is fucking amazing. Mabel shows no concern for her brother, ofc, not sticking up for him in anyway or encouraging Stan to fucking do his job as the adult there and protect Dipper, or try to help Dipper in anyway. Then the worst is Soos...after half the time he's supportive to the twins and especially Dipper as an older brother type figure, he shows no concern either, and even sorta makes Dipper out to be a wimp for hiding for tryna hide from Robbie! WHY?! There's no fucking concern or empathy here being shown for a powerless and scared child who has literally no fucking clue what to do in this situation, and who has no one to turn to but a fucking OP sentient arcade character. Fucking wow...
I think in that case, while it was messed up no one tried to help, they didn't really see why Dipper and Robbie were fighting in the first place and didn't take it seriously (plus, Robbie is kinda wimpy so they probably wouldn't think he could do a lot of damage, even though he's four years older than Dipper). Idk it's been a while since I watched that episode
@@RandomSkyeRoses Wait but what was Mabel meant to do? Fight the 16-year old in his place? Now that I think about it, what could have Mabel done that wouldn't make Robbie think even less of Dipper? "Pfft, you need your sister to fight your battles for you? Lame." I think Mabel should've supported Dipper but trying to get in the middle of it is like when a teen's parent tells off a bully. The people who already thought little of you think less of you for not handling your own battle. I think Stan would've really liked the punch Robbie in Dipper's place and that would've at least struck fear in Robbie. Or he could have taught Dipper how to fight a little bit.
@@isaacpianos5208 I thought Stan _did_ find out, and didn't do squat. I think Stan being Stan would've encouraged it because Robbie's, well, Robbie (especially with how he treated Dipper already). Not really a tough guy.
19:50 If "love god" had revealed that the potion was temporary, we'd never have gotten that scene with the Stan-Balloon swallowing him in his moment of hubris.
Robbie never actually mind controlled Wendy, or even attempted to. In the DVD commentary for “Boyz Crazy” creator Alex Hirsch clarified that Robbie had plagiarized the song from another band and had no idea about the message. Alex lamented not making this nuance more clear in the episode, since it left a lot of people confused. Robbie’s still in the wrong, but plagiarism isn’t nearly as bad as actual mind control. It’s a bit of sloppy writing that unfortunately led to many people viewing the character as a literal sociopath rather than what he is, an dumb teenager who lies and acts like a dick because he’s insecure.
Alex actually said that the record didn’t have any special properties. Robbie just plagiarized a rock band that tried to do the mind control message but failed.
Yeah agreed, Robbie isn't a good person at all he is petty and spiteful to the point where he attempts to beat up a 12 year old kid over something which ultimately doesn't matter because he did win he got Wendy yet he was so immature he still picked a fight. It gets even worse when he uses a hypnotic song to brainwash Wendy to be with him and go to make out point which is a criminal act in so many ways and is disturbing and horrible to imagine how he could have continued this if dipper and Stan hadn't intervened. Worse of all Robbie was seen as a victim or at least portrayed as someone to be pitied despite him mind controlling Wendy to make out with him and gets rewarded by having Mabel also commit a crime by drugging him and tambry to be in a happy relationship, which is equally as wrong as what he did to Wendy. His redemption is incredibly poor as he wasn't redeemed at all merely drugged to be happier and be forgiven by his victim, Wendy, who again was being mind controlled to go out with him after wanting to break up which should never have happened without some form of amendment from Robbie at the very least. He hasn't done anything to deserve this at all; we don't see him get better as a person by helping others, he doesn't apologies to Wendy merely lie when he was caught, we don't see him do anything before which would justify him having a good ending.
Well no duh, Pacifica & Gideon fall into the same territory. Major difference between them & Robbie though, is that Robbie is the only one who's character arch is handled more poorly than the other two. Gideon (somewhat) redeemed himself at the end of the series when he helps Dipper, Wendy & Soos get to the bubble to free Mabel, sacrificing himself to Bill in the process. And for Pacifica, she's shown to be nowhere near as bad a bully to Mabel as Robbie is to Dipper & she's shown to not only have an actual reason for her bad behavior, but also starts to show improvement as the series goes on. Robbie never gets that kind of redemption though, despite that fact that he's clearly supposed to be a part of the main cast of characters to help try to take down Bill.
I don't think Gravity Falls realized how on some ironic level it's perfect that Mabel and Robbie relate to each other. Robbie lying in a grave speaking to a picture of Wendy, unable to let go is exactly what Mabel would have done. Oh, I forgot, it's literally just a less dramatic version of Mabel standing at a pole forever because Waddles isn't hers.
I think when it came to Robbie they wanted him to be like Pacifica. Pacifica was Mabel's rival who got redeemed in Northwest Manor Mystery thanks to her interactions with dipper. The Love God felt like it wanted to do the same thing with Robbie. Where it has Robbie (effectively Dippers rival) become redeemed by an interaction with Mabel.
I never realize that, they did try to redeem each of the twins rivals with Dipper redeeming Pacifica and Mabel with Robbie. Too bad this only worked with Pacifica.
@@xempororhxppyx He’s just known for being an asshole. There have been several sexual assault charges at him. And he even made a fake bomb threat once.
4:24 fun fact the whole cipher wheel thing wasn't supposed to play a part in the show and the symbols chosen were just random but was written in after many fans started speculating over it, which explains why Robbie barley did anything in the season finale.
You know I never really thought about this before but it hit me while I was watching this video. Robbie and Tambry never had the love spell broken. Assuming it’s permanent if no one reverses it does that mean the characters decided to keep them under the spell just because they’re “better” versions of each other?! That’s so messed up!!! Also I gotta wonder where Robbie got that CD he used to hypnotize Wendy although given the town of Gravity Falls and what it’s people are like I wouldn’t be surprised if he just found it at a random thrift store haha 🤣
That's EXACTLY what happened, they tried to fix it with Journal 3 tho saying that the potion only lasted 3 hours, but the fact that Mabel accepted to leave them like that BEFORE knowing that is still messed up.
@@nellewoodruff6337 But their happiness isn't real because it's the potion working, not them really into love, therefore they are not really happy, and very less by choice.
There isn't a cure though. Love God told Mabel to just let the relationship run it's course and instead she stole a potion that would have forced Robbie and Tambry to hate each other. It was a two wrongs don't make a right kind of thing. I really don't think you even need supplemental material to get the vibe that the relationship was free to live or die on it's own merits. Edit: I think I might have been misremembering, I can't find the line where "Love God told Mabel to just let the relationship run it's course."... But I did find that the Anti-Love potion is literally called a cure to the love potion on it's label so... I'm just wrong, Ignore me. The way I remember it is a better episode than reality. The "two wrongs don't make a right" angle is the only way to make the ending work but Anti-Love potion actually is a cure...
My favorite part about love god was back in 2014 people found the complex hidden message involving letters on different objects scrolling by in the background of the chase scene *on the night of the premiere*
Robbie had the potential to be a really great character. There are some points about him I sort of like, but bad writing just meant that those points were then buried under layers of "he did this wrong, he did that wrong". He could have had such an amazing redemption and realised how badly he hurt Wendy. It could have shown him taking a look at the friend group, realising something was off, and trying to fix it. I don't care if Robbie had ended up with Tambry eventually, as long as it was on their own terms, and not forced. Speaking of, Mabel never told anyone what happened, she just left it to chance that it could work out.
Robbie had potential, the fact that he couldn't get himself to punch Dipper after everything he's been put through in that one episode, they just unfortunately didn't expand on it. So yeah I have to agree with this for the most part
Honestly, I just disliked this episode for the message it tries to sell. I had nothing against Robbie getting a new gf, but I really hated how Mabel, instead of trying to help Robbie get over Wendy, just shoved him into a new relationship. Like it's dating 101 that you gotta get over the previous person before you date a new one. The episode should've focused on that idea instead of what we got. Also just the fact that Wendy was upset at Tambry dating Robbie seems very out of character. I mean Wendy isn't exactly super mature, but nothing about her until that point gave the impression that she'd be the kind of person to feel that way.
Mabel, not having been through a relationship like Robbie, never really got the experience that relationships don't instantly make your life better and sometimes you just gotta sulk before you can be back to yourself again. Iirc, she kind of learns this in the Society of the Blind Eye episode but I do think they could've moved it here instead, or at least the part of it that relationships don't instantly make your life better, and some people need to become people worthy of loving.
No Wendy's reaction was valid. Not only is your best friend since childhood dating your ex a serious problem and is not okay in all circumstances, especially when the person is unaware of it. Seeing how horrible Robbie treated Wendy, even trying to take advantage of her, is WORSE. So not only is Tambry dating her ex without telling her, who she once had feelings for, Tambry's ALSO dating the guy who hypnotized her and tried to take advantage of her. No doubt that Wendy told her what happened between them too, she had every right to be pissed.
@@samitrahill5723 I can get your reasoning there, but nothing about Wendy's reaction suggested that any of those reasons are why she was upset with Tambry. She didn't mention anything along the lines of "How could she date Robbie behind my back? She knows how much of a jerk he is." She just said that she was upset that Tambry didn't tell her, which is also kinda stupid since they had literally just started dating, and Mabel even told Wendy herself that they had just started dating. Besides, Wendy had never expressed post breakup that she didn't want to hang out with Robbie. So why would Tambry think that dating the dude would piss off Wendy? Besides. The idea of not dating a friend's ex is just plain dumb, and definitely doesn't seem like something a chill girl like Wendy would believe in.
@@bluebird1914 No matter how chill you are, this situation could irritate anyone. And still, Wendy was valid in feeling that way, because not only is dating a friend's ex bad and shallow, not telling said friend about it is even worse because they KNOW it's wrong. And just because she didn't say it, doesn't mean it doesn't play a factor in why she was mad. And sure they JUST started dating, but as soon as interest in Robbie was suspected, a good friend would've said something and assure it was okay. (Sure she couldn't, because of the potion but Wendy didn't know that) And not dating a friend's ex is reasonable, because why would you want to get with someone your friend had feelings for after they broke up, especially when they broke up in a way similar to Wendy and Robbie did because he was a jerk. Now if the situation was that Wendy and Robbie went on a few dates just to try it out and mutually saw that they weren't right for each other, that's fine because there wasn't much emotion there. If they were serious(Which Wendy and Robbie were), NOW it's a problem. Again, no matter how chill you are, this type of betrayal can and will hurt anyone. It wasn't ooc, because all chill characters have their limits.
I thought the Love God himself was an interesting element of the love potion trope. The whole trope is based on how we are sometimes struck with this sort of instant, powerful infatuation with someone that doesn't necessarily make logical sense, comes out of nowhere, and most significantly is completely out of our control. It's why Cupid in greek mythology was depicted shooting arrows at people to make them fall in love. As much as we romanticize that sort of infatuation, it really isn't that different than getting drugged in terms of its effect on us. So, in settings when there are actual love gods out there, that sort of implies it's ALWAYS magic roofies.
I honesty have to agree with you that I really didn't care too much about Robbie let alone care rather got got true redemption or not cause no matter which scenario or episodes where you try to make Robbie learn from his mistaken or have a change of heart; I honestly don't see It and It's truly bad when I have to make the patsy; Thompson Into a true redeemable chad compared to this virgin goth wannabe, even our main lead; Dipper who tries so hard just to Impress his crush when he himself Is extremely not the right age for her. He's not even worthy of being one of the main threats let alone a recurring one at best cause he's just one of those obstacle-type bullies you normally deal with every early mid 2000's shows you can think of and even thy got some redemption now and then Take Tom Lucitor from Star Vs. The Forces Of Evil for example; sure he someone we except to automatically hate because he's was star's ex, but still he developed more then just a hateable jerk when he was trying to get over some of his anger Issues just to be a better demon prince and get over star, he and Marco had a cute bromance that got him somewhere to soft him a brighter and more positive side to him and even settled his differences with her Ex's but too bad all of that hard earned effort was smashed and thrown up the window just to make more room for Starco Fans everywhere In Season 4. I can somehow see some possible decent episodes like; Robbie caring for his rowdy bros, trying to help his family more stay In business, or even drive Into Robbie's past when he wasn't always a nasty teen and someone (or something) traumatized and bullied him and couldn't got over ti ever since I can at least some potential.
I never really saw this episode as "redeeming Robbie" more just "he's not going to be an antagonist". It was a cute episode that didn't need to be much else and as Pacifica's episode proves it's hard to get every character developed in a limited timeframe.
thompson was never in a toxic relationship. he was that one guy you make fun of but still love. if thompson was more outspoken then of course they would be a bit lighter. but he isn’t so they can do a moderate amount of poking fun
I hate Robbie as much as the next guy, but Alex Hirsch has confirmed in the episode commentary that Robbie didn't know about the backwards message. He'd plagiarized some death metal band that put liked to put backwards messages in their music Alex has also said the message didn't do anything anyway because backwards messages don't work like that.
Wendy is a teenager. It didn't really strike me as super out of character for her to join in - or at least stand by - as her friends relentlessly bully Thompson. After all - that was almost the sort of relationship she had with Dipper. He lied about being "technically a teen" to hang out with her group, she doubted he would fit in - she was surprised that he was 'cool enough' to hang out with. I love Wendy. Shes awesome - but shes also 15. Empathy isn't a well developed part of a teenagers world yet. Robbie... isn't greatly fleshed out. But what were his crimes, really? - Challenged a 12 year old to a fight ((that he didn't intend to get violent in - or at least not particularly violent. He was bark with no intent, or ability, to bite.)) He is an edgy teenage boy who feels he doesn't fit in with his family - and the girl he likes would rather spend time with some little kid. "Scare him off and get an ego boost for being tough" is a stupid, immature but completely believable choice of action. - Put backwards words in a song to stop Wendy from breaking up with him. It is unclear whether or not the song ACTUALLY magically brainwashed her. For it being magic: 1. Its a weird black disc in a weird case, with a song he didn't even write on it. 2. It also has an immediate effect on Wendy despite being a bit shit. Sounds kinda magical. Against it being magic: 1. Stanley says the exact same thing happened to him. Was it the same song, sung acoustically by a hippy? Are all backwards song lyrics brainwashing? Both are unlikely. (Does Stan probably not have the healthiest ways to mentally acknowledge that a girl /chose/ to leave him for another man? Pretty damn likely.) 2. Wendy did not act brainwashed - she simply changed her mind. No weird eyes, no weird words - that's acting far more like being /convinced/ than being drugged. 3. When the truth came out she wasn't even mad that the song had weird shit in it - She was angry that he lied about writing it. 4. Robbie has an edgy themed band. Black cd's and weird cases are probably common for him (and super fucking rad). I think the entire POINT of the inclusion of Stanley's "hippy stole my girl" story into the plot is specifically to say that 'people can be moved by nice gestures/by music'. At this point of the story Stanley 'didn't believe' in the supernatural. He just knows that sometimes people will 'steal yo girl' by manipulating them - and he doesn't want Wendy to get hurt. Is it fucked up that Robbie likely sat down and googled "brainwashing love song to stop my girlfriend from breaking up with me"? Yep. That's not very nice. He is a 16 year old outcast who isn't very emotionally mature. Mild manipulation tactics are commonplace in teenage relationships - heck, so is completely destroying friend groups, getting violent and treating drama as 'entertainment'. ... Uh... that's it. Those are his crimes. Robbie is a teenage boy who lied to his girlfriend so she wouldn't break up with him - and tried to scare a 12 year old away so he didn't distract her from looking at him and his like... skinny jeans... guitar... whatever he thought was going to win her over. MAYBE he googled a real brain-washing song, just to be super-manipulative... but how would he know that sort of thing might actually work? He didn't expect a video game character to try and murder him - he doesn't expect the supernatural. He just didn't want Wendy to leave him and didn't think of a better, more respectful way. Nothing that happened in the love god episode was his fault - he was drugged. (Not that he did anything wrong in that episode, he just went on a date and cried over his ex. He wasn't even trying to make it Wendy's problem. he was alone before a bunch of people he used to call friends came and shamed him. Nice.) He isn't great or anything. Would have been nice if he learned a lesson or two, sure. But he isn't exactly "unworthy of redemption" - unless about 80% of all kids are also unworthy.
If we're going to talk about horrible love interests we're supposed to like, are we ever going to bring up Sierra? I swear that girl deadass drugged Cody and forced him to marry her, and I was supposed to think she was a hero? I swear I watched a completely different show than what everyone else in the community saw.
Honestly I never thought Robbie would get a redemption arc, nor did it seem like the show was giving him one. Love God honestly just seemed like the writers trying to squeeze out one more Wendy and Co. storyline before the series started to get more into the more serious stuff. He didn't seem like a victim in the episode, he kind of just seemed... pathetic. Like even Dipper doesn't feel the need to dog pile on him because it'd be pointless. And I know she isn't the focus of this video, but this was one of the episodes that made me think twice about Mabel's character more so than Robbie's.. She inserts herself into a situation she's advised not to, she is constantly trying to force help and changes on a character (Robby) that clearly doesn't want it, and she is actually willing to drug not just that character but another neutral party (Tambry) to achieve that goal. And she kind of gets off with no consequences, like yeah she had to confront her own romantic past and learned not to mess with people's emotions. But everything else is fine because luckily Robbie and Tambry are happy with each other and their friend group gets back together again like nothing happened. I mentioned it in your Mabel video but it's weird to me that this is the Mabel-centric episode but it involves a character that Mabel barely interacts with, and doesn't really advance her or Robbie's character. Interestingly enough the episode right after that is Northwest Mansion Mystery, and has Pacifica as the main focus but Mabel is hardly involved at all with the main storyline. Dipper is the one that helps Pacifica grow and develop.
The writing was definitely poor in that episode, I'd honestly say Love God is on par with Roadside Attraction for having a weak plot and terrible character decisions.
@@swaggasaurus4837 Yeah, kind of weak there. I feel like Roadside attraction and Love God are perfect examples of the tonal contrast that exists in the series when it comes to Dipper and Mabel. Roadside attraction seems to be more heavy on criticizing Dipper, for being a "player", having a whole scene where he's called out directly by all the girls he interacted with and even Mabel calls him a "betrayer". While Love God seems to be light on any actual punishment or critique on Mabel's character, aside from Love God calling her out, despite the fact that what she did seems a whole league worse. Dipper in Roadside Attraction, at the very least seems self-aware, he questions Stan on whether or not "flirting" with all these girls is morally right and says that he doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. And at the end he genuinely apologizes to Candy. Mabel on the other hand doesn't really seem to even recognize that forcing Robbie and Tambry together without their consent is bad in it's own right. She only believes it's a problem when the group dynamic suffers which gets resolved about as quickly as it came up (which actually does make sense because teenagers).
@@kyleoverton334 Those are some very good points. My problem with Roadside attraction is the fact that it undermines the ending of the shapeshifter episode. Sure you could say its realistic that Dipper hasn't entirely moved on from Wendy, but the entire episode's narrative is painfully repetitive, teaching Dipper a lesson that the show already hammered over his head. But I completely agree, at the very least Roadside attraction gave Dipper some self-awareness towards his actions and his apology to Candy was genuine and thoughtful. About Love God, I just thought the episode was messy overall. So many out of character moments, like Wendy's pettiness towards Tambry for dating her ex. I mean, for the first half of the episode none of them could stand Robbie. Wouldn't it make more sense for Wendy to be concerned for her best friend pursuing the guy who brainwashed her and antagonized Dipper?
@@swaggasaurus4837 Yeah Roadside Attraction did feel like it was repeating a character beat. Honestly I didn't mind that, it's really the "player/pick-up artist" subtext that I felt was too much. I think the episode would've worked better if it was just Dipper becoming more confident with girls. Have the interaction with the girls be treated as genuine and platonic (which it already felt like it was) and let him realize that Wendy might not be the only girl for him. You can even keep the part where Candy develops a crush for him (which I thought was adorable) but put more focus on Dipper trying to navigate telling her he's not interested, letting him learn what it's like to be on the receiving end of unrequited love and how hard it is to let someone down without hurting them. And Love God definitely was a weird character moment for Wendy. We know that she and Tambry have been friends since childhood. Yet she doesn't think it's weird that she suddenly has an attraction for Robbie, when we know that she clearly doesn't before the love potion is used. I guess you could play it off as teenage emotions, but her lack of concern or suspicion is strange.
@@kyleoverton334 She would have questions about Robbie's sudden attraction to Tambry too. Love God would honestly be better if Wendy was more involved in the plot and was trying to help Tambry and Robbie, initial thinking Robbie is pulling another paranormal stunt, because she doesn't want them to reexperience the whole cd incident again.
@Kevin Green honestly the Wendy romance felt like a whole lot of nothing to me, like sure it's realistic and having the guy not get the girl is a good message but I feel like it got more focus than it needed and kinda cucked Wendy in terms of being a member of the main cast.
Pacífica got a redemption for doing far less worse stuff than Robbie did in the entire series: Pacífica was being a victim of domestic abuse and was blamed for stuff her parents conditioned her into obedience for and that she clearly didn't want to do, and she was 12 that her worst actions were laugh at Mabel and humilliate her in public a couple of times, Robbie on the other hand is a 17 year old that bullied, hit and tried to beat a 12 year old up over his own insecurities and roofied his girlfriend to take advantage of her. He might not be a villain, but he is definitely a terrible person, and definitely needed a redemption arc if they wanted him to be likable.
I think the temporary aspect of the spell would have made the episode way better. Also Robbie should have had an episode where he does get better, but Wendy still won't get back together with him. The problem with the attempt at redemption is that he didn't have as much time to grow as say Pacifica. Pacifica gets two whole episodes based on redeeming her, where Robbie gets one where he's forced to go through character development. Often, redemption only works when the character willingly takes responsibility, but Robbie neither willingly commits, nor takes responsibility.
I think the issue was he had no reason to interact with the pines after that, he's not obsessing over Wendy anymore so his not going to go to the Mystery shack all the time, he never liked dipper from the start so it's not like there's some budding friendship their waiting to bloom, like before he felt threatened he showed a dislike for him, Mabel has no real connection to him, and even with the friend group being repaired at the end, Tambry and Robbie would still be somewhat distant from the group as they're focused on their relationship.
Isn't it kinda funny that Robbie looks almost exactly like Tuffnut from the How to train your dragon franchise, a character that T.J. Miller also voices.
There a reason I dislike enforced Redemption arcs as it gives people the wrong idea that forgiveness is easy and that we don't see time how there actions play effect but if you give it to someone who realizes their mistakes or questions there actions than it gives people time to see how someone actions can hurt or push others away something avatar the last airbender got right with Zuko and Infinity train got right with Grace
Can you do a video on Gideon parents, especially his dad? They let him walk all over them and so don't properly teach him morals and consequences which likely led to a good portion of his behavior. Gideon never learned to take no for an answer leading to his anger when rejected by mabel
Robbie NEVER deserved a redemption because he NEVER made the effort to get it by correcting himself, not in the entire series. I can't agree with this video enough, Robbie is easily my MOST HATED CHARACTER of the entire series, and not because there aren't most hateful ones like Preston and Priscilla, Gideon, Filbrick and Bill, they are and the narrative doesn't deny it, it's because despite Robbie's terrible behaviour and actions for NO reasons other than his own insecurities, the narrative portrays Robbie as a victim that needs to be pitied and rewarded...AFTER HE LITTERALLY BULLIED OVER A DRAWING AND TRIED TO BEAT UP A 12 YEAR OLD KID AND THEN MIND CONTROLLED HIS GIRLFRIEND TO KEEP HER FROM BREAKING UP AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HER IN HIS CAR. Worst of all? The show instead of admitting that Robbie was being a bully, a creep and an abuser with Wendy in that episode, and make him own up to his mistakes and make up for it, the show LITTERALLY blames Dipper, DIPPER, of the broken relationship, because apparently, according to the writers, Robbie wasn't wrong in trying to mind control Wendy, oh no, Dipper is the one being in the wrong for "getting in th way of their relationship and ruinning it", implying that the right thing to do would have been to let Robbie mind control Wendy at his own will...What.the.H, people?! It doesn't help that Robbie NEVER admits he did anything wrong, oh no, he has the balls to blame Dipper of HIS mistakes (and even use one of his pictures as a bullseye and write "Die Dipper Die" on his walls). And instead of actually making him face consequences for his actions and change as a person and get better, he only feels sorry for himself and cries until someone else pitties him enough to get him a girlfriend. Robbie NEVER admits he did anything wrong, NEVER apologizes over anything he did, doesn't even TRY to get better as a person, and instead, he gets rewarded and pittied enough and gets a happy ending, and the narrative calls that a redemption. That is NOT how a redemption arc works, and that's why he is terrible and the worst character of the series by far. Robbie NEVER deserved a redemption because he NEVER made the effort to get it by correcting himself, not in the entire series.
He’s the most normal of the antagonists in the show because as pointed out, everyone has a Robbie in their lives. The person who bullies because he’s insecure. Pacifica does embody the mean girl, at least before season two fleshes her out as a person by making her parents more actively malicious through their elitism.
I think that Robbie sucks and I can't stand him too. That being said, I hope and believe that he was written as a cautionary tale. That if you are obsessed with someone and they dont feel the same, move onto someone who reciprocates your feelings. As Dipper said "you can't force someone to love you." I think both Robbie and Dipper had to learn this. But Robbie only learned this through a force love potion sooooo.... 🤷♀️ But you bring up the most important point which is the dubious circumstances of his relationships. If you use some type of substance whether it be roofies or even "just" alcohol, it is wrong and should never be rewarded. I never felt like Robbie learned that what he did was wrong. And I don't think turning around and doing it to his character was in good taste either. Just continuing the cycle and not stopping it, you know? Love these Gravity Falls deep dives! Keep it up! And if you have time, check out this podcast: Mystery Shack Look Back. I think you will really enjoy it!
To me the attraction of gravity falls is the same as Cheers. You can point to almost any character in the show and know a real life counter part. To me idc either way if Robbie gets “redemption” or not. We all know a Robbie and we all know a Mabel or Dipper. The reason why this show worked so well was that despite all of its quirkiness and humor, it was relatable to a wide audience. As much as I hated some of Mabel’s decisions I understood them because I grew up with people that were very much like her. So to me as much as I was annoyed by the things they did it made for a better story than if she had done the things everyone wanted her to do.
I just wanna point out that according to the creator of the show on the collectors dvd commentary Robbie didn't try to control Wendy, that song was one he ripped off from a metal band (as the ep mentioned) and THEY put that whole deal on in the song, he didn't know. There's also the fact Alex said backward massages can't control someone, even in gravity falls. He mentioned it was their fault for not making that clear.
But do we have to rely on his word alone as the canon explanation instead of seeing the episode because I could just use "Death of the Author" to invalidate his explanation and headcanon that Robbie did mind control Wendy for his own pleasure.
Can we also talk about how Boyz Crazy and The Love God episodes are another example of the double standards and favouritism the writers play with Mabel? In Boyz Crazy, Dipper gets framed as the bad guy for trying to rescue Wendy from being mind controlled because, in the writers' eyes, "he got in the way of a relationship and ruined it", but then Mabel in The Love God not only does she get into other people's relationships and business (what Dipper was accused of), she goes and mind controlls people to force them into love against their wills (the same thing Robbie did), but instead of getting called out, the episode ends with "Oh nevermind, they are happy even if it's fake, what you did was the right thing all along, don't change it" and gets away with it scott free. They litterally punish Dipper for stuff that they reward or allow Mabel to get away scott free with. It's such a double standard and playing favourites.
@@duduamrosh It's not that I dislike how she was writen, it's that she was writen badly. A protagonist needs to go through character arc, that's basic in storytelling.
@@duduamrosh He didn't expect them, otherwise he would have writen the show differently and wouldn't have dedicated a full story to finish Mabel's arc and correct her.
@@dracoangelrojo Some people doesn't like to read some criticism about her character, And if they don't want to, that is fine they simply don't read them, nobody forces them, people just discuss about issues, am I right?
I think the idea of the love potion is that using it is already bad, but trying to fix it with another potion would just make it worse. It’s like solving the problem the same way it was caused, which sounds like it’ll lead to a bigger problem than not. I think the lesson Mabel has to learn is about not always having to “undo” mistakes and just trying to move on and make the best of a current situation, because sometimes a problem might be better off fixing itself. As for Robbie, I don’t think he was designed to be all that complex, or at least they probably didn’t have much time to make him that way. For that reason, I think his character progression is simply moving on from Wendy, and acknowledging that moving on will ultimately be the best move for him going forward. And while he was set up with the potion to be with someone else, he ultimately ends up moving on and becomes happier because of it
Tom actually had a character arc in the right direction, where Robbie either stayed the same, or got worse. I agree with all points in this video. Tom is much more likable than Robbie by at least some percentage.
Not only does the ending of "Love God" contradict "Boys Crazy" but also "Into the Bunker" Mabel learns that she shouldn't intervene in relations as she can cause harm and then a few episodes later doubles down by drugging people She is evolving, just backwards
I'm referring to Robbie and Tambry And the creators didn't intend the potion to have a time Limit or else they would have put it in the Episode. Journal 3 just contains that to justify it
@@breaderikthegreat3224 What is wrong of justifying it? It was something missing in the show and they put it. Similar to how most people think that Mabel lacks development (I don't agree that she has no character development in the show itself) and Hirsch put it in the comic to fill the holes that have been missing but yet people are still not satisfied. And Mabel evolved to the better not backwards. She is not a bad sister, got it? (Did you like my reply?)
He's an angsty kid who doesn't know how to be himself without putting on a persona to impress others. If being a stupid teenager were such a crime as to never be worthy of redemption into someone's adult life then I think there is something wrong with that analysis.
Love potions as a date rape drug comes up in Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, where Merope Gaunt had a relationship with Tom Riddle Senior that from his end was entirely love potion. When she decides he may now have genuine feelings and she can stop dosing him, he leaves her and their unborn baby, the baby she doesn’t live to raise but only to leave at an orphanage. Said baby turns out to be Voldemort.
Desiree Loveros She stopped using it because she didn’t want the love to come from a bottle, but from his heart. The problem was the relationship was built on false foundations and the sudden end proved that. If you realised someone had drugged you over a period of time to make you think you loved them, made you abandon your life to be with them had raped you into giving them a child, you’d want nothing more to do with them.
@@thebaconguy1661 I had no real reason, other than the whole "I am Lord Voldemort" anagram thing. Who knows if it was intentional, but I couldn't help noticing.
Robbie is jusy like draco malfoy: someone that did terrible things during all the series, but the fandom forgive them just because they are an good looking emo white boy, ignoring the fact that they did almost nothing to deserve to be forgiven
Draco had terrible parents, so I kinda excused him. Especially when he was shown unable to kill dumbledore. Robby has nice parents but still turned out to be an asshole
@@exodustimes4266 An character having understandable motivations is different from being forgivable. Draco has motivations to be an bad person, but he never tried to change. Prople forget that most of the time.
The fandom didn't forgive him, they just never gave him much thought at all, Robbie that is. Also emo yes, good looking no, they specifically gave him all the unattractive teenager characteristics in his design.
That's what I hate episodes that do that onto Mabel, it's like the show's trying to get you to not hate her for it just cuz she's hurrdurr the best likable character ever. Yeaaaaaah no, sorry writers. That ain't how you do it right.
Something I think woulda been cool so the writers could have their cake and eat it too; if the love potion wasn’t permanent. the potion wears off at some point off screen, but Robbie and Tambry still hit it off. So in reality, the love potion acts as a kinda ‘nudge in the right direction’ so to speak, and the couple can find out not long later if it was real or no NOT GREAT BUT LIKE Edit right after I finished the vid: Ah. That was the case apparently. Still could communicated it
Gotta correct you on the bit about Robbie's song. Alex Hirsch has confirmed that Robbie knew nothing about the subliminal message. It was purely a coincidence that Dipper found one. The only thing Robbie did wrong was lie about having written and recorded the song himself, and that lie was what upset Wendy. Admittedly these details weren't conveyed very clearly, but the writer's intention was that Robbie never meant to hypnotize Wendy.
Yeah, that's true, but still, the way they wrote the show contradicts the idea, which results in the death of the author where the content of the story matters more than what they intended. The words of the writers and Alex say that it wasn't on purpose, but the way they wrote it and showed it...definitely says otherwise.
I’ve only seen some gravity falls and I’ve never watched Rick and Morty. I can imagine though that a young kid would feel very uncomfortable with woman jumping all over him. Though he asked for the potion. It’s interesting that that would be an episode of a show.
So true. Not every awful character deserves redemption. Like take tsunderes from harem animes for example, tsunderes like Naru (Love Hina), Chitoge (Nisekoi), Kaori (Your Lie in April), Louise (Familiar of Zero) and Kirie (Girls Bravo) spent most of the series beating up the main MC for the stupidest reasons, yet we're supposed to see them as the good guys despite they're abuse. Then they try to paint them as saints who just have *air quotes* problems and only act that way because they feel *air quotes* sad and lonely. Ugh. Worse, they try to make them better near the end of the series like Chitoge showing a sweeter side for no reason, Kaori apologizing in a letter or Kirie stopping her abuse on Yukinari just suddenly, THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS YOU IDIOTS!!! Bottom line, even if they said "I'm sorry", I would never ever EVER forgive them and say "F**k off! You don't deserve redemption!".
Alex Hirsch said that the backwards message in the record was meant as a reflection of Robbie's ignorance and lack of musical talent and Dipper's vain pursuit of making Robbie look bad, without considering Wendy's feelings. He also didn't read too deeply into any *implications* because subliminal messages don't really work and he used that plot point as a goof.
Another classic solution to the love portion trope would be for Mabel to use the antidote but Robbie and Tambri stay together anyway because it turns out that they actually do like each other.
would have been better if the episode ended with them reversing the love potion, robbie finding out and getting angry only to realize he did the same thing to wendy. that would be the start of an actual redemption, because robbie has now realized what he did was wrong. he would still need another episode to make up for it though.
Love potions plots where always creepy. Like in Midsummer Night's Dream where Oberon never gave Demetrius the antidote to the love potion. But then again, Demetrius would rather have Hermia executed than seeing her with Lysander.
this reminds me of how Mal from Descendants uses a love spell in the first movie and there are no consequences for her actions at all, plus she is even rewarded at the end which is horrible
At least he didn't almost cause the world to end like Mabel did.
He would
He certainly would
He most definitely would
He still mind controlled his girlfriend to keep her from breaking up with him and take advantage of her in his car...that's messed up enough, specially considering he is 17.
It would have been more intentional if he did
the fact that we got an episode about him being angsty and finding love again instead of an episode where wendy and grunkle stan bond (a legit scrapped episode) infuriates me to no end
Wait really, I always to see a partners in crime episode of Wendy and Stan
If it was scrapped by the writers, it's probably because it was bad lol
@@highdefinition450 there's a vid of alex hirsch explaining what the plot would've been. sounds way better than this ep imo
@@tiablue9106 Do you remember the name of that video so I can see the rest of the rejected unmade Gravity Falls scripts? I always thought the board game "What Could Go Wrong?" from The Last Mabelcorn hinted at that being a rejected script idea, when Dipper says "This should take up the next 21 minutes."
It was scrapped cause the writers sadly couldn't find a good A Plot that would fit well
Robbie is a meh character for me. It wouldn’t be so bad if it was just him being a stereotypical teenager but then he gets into fights with a literal twelve year old… kinda petty dude.
Wendy was right to not choose either of them tbh it was honestly a stupid love triangle on both sides
@@HackiePuffs , honestly even if Gravity Falls didn’t keep Mabel and Dipper 12 years old, and had them being as old as Alex Hirsh and his twin sister, and having Wendy being the same age as the voice actress that voice acts her then I’d never see them working out even as a couple because Dipper is like a childish version of Gregory House down to them both purely intellectuals that thinks emotions are beneath them, and being purely objectivists in the pursuit of science and knowledge is why he’d never work out with a tomboy stoner.
@@HackiePuffs I'm personally indifferent to Wendip (I have my own Dipper ship, and it's actually with an OC), but 3 years doesn't seem like that bad of an age difference, especially when they're both under 18, lowering the squick factor a bit.
@@HackiePuffs not to mention that dipper is a kid
And loses
Robbie is one of those static bad guy characters. He’s pretty much the same throughout the entire show and doesn’t show any real desire to be different. Pacifica’s development was way better, but her arc didn’t continue past one episode, of course.
That was the episode before Ford arrived, so not much opportunity to explore Dipcifica.
@@jbcatz5 Fair. But I wasn’t really thinking of Dipcifica. I just liked and wanted more of Pacifica’s growth and character development in general.
@@faeryfangirl01 true.. wish she had more appearances or hung out with mabel and candy and grenda after tht, or at least was part of the bunch who bid the twins goodbye when they left gravity falls
If I were to rewrite this episode, I'd maybe go about it like this:
Mable does steal the love serum and gives it to Robbie and Tambrie, but it actually is temporary and shown to be so throughout the episode instead of just being retconned into being temporary. Not only that, but it's a "faulty" version of the love potion and so it wears off instead of just disappearing after a few hours. That means that Robbie and Tambrie start becoming themselves more and more as the potion wears off over time. Mabel realizes this and tries to get them with the permanent love spray throughout the episode. The "love god" finds out about this and tries to stop her.
The rest of the episode plays out pretty similarly, but when Mabel is about to make it to Robbie and Tambrie on the hill, she is told to stop by the love god, too tired to stop her physically after getting hit by the Stan balloon. They talk about why Mabel is doing this and, after a full explanation, the love god says that Robbie doesn't need someone to love him, he needs to become better and for someone to believe he can become better. Finding a romantic partner is just a band-aid, it's not a real solution and really undermines the entire relationship.
He also calls out Mabel's selfish desires to get Robbie to have a romantic partner, likens it to her idea that a relationship is necessary and that she is projecting her need for people to like her on to Robbie. Maybe this can be said later, too, but it's a perfect throughline for the themes of the episode and bringing it all up together seems right to me. Maybe end this section off with a joke about how the love god only told her this because she wouldn't buy another love merchandise from him. In order to round off the love god character. He's a guy who profits off of the idea that "loving all the time is great and fun" but has more selective and careful opinions on love that he would never tell his customers.
Then Mabel gives the potion back, sees Robbie and Tambrie freed from the initial potion and goes to apologize to them. Robbie gets really angry to her and threatens her with bodily harm, but realizes he pulled the same brainwashing trick on Wendy and that causes him enough shame that he can't bring himself to be angry at her any further. Robbie then asks Tambrie to be his girlfriend, because he actually grew to like her throughout their time together. Tambrie declines immediately, though. She knows how much of a douche he is, and, since it wasn't even quite the real her the entire day, she tells him that any "love" they had was not genuine. However, she says that Robbie had moments of being really sweet to her throughout the day and she believes that it wasn't just the love potion. They can start a new relationship, one in which they are strictly friends and she helps him become better. And they STAY friends throughout the rest of the show. Robbie needed a friend to help guide him to a better path, not a romantic partner to help take the pain of being lonely away. Them getting together would undermine that.
Also, they tell Mabel to stay away for a while. They don't hate her, but they feel abused and don't want to see her for some time.
Something like that, at least.
This, THIS is how this episode should have been writen.
I love this so much. If there’s one thing that people keep messing up when it comes to love, is that they always rely on a romantic partner to solve all of their problems when the real work comes from doing it yourself. From personal experience, guidance from a family or friend is much more effective than guidance from a partner when it comes to healing and growing. My only issue with your story is that Tambry doesn’t really have any qualities that are beneficial for Robbie’s development, therefore she can’t help him find a better path. A friend who could help him would’ve definitely been Wendy, but you already know what happened between them.
Very good rewrite. 👍
I mean, the Journal does establish that the love potion is temporary.
yeah this a part of my head canon now, well done
The way Robbie's character was treated and misshandled is attrocious: he goes from a bully that tries to beat up a 12 year old over his own insecurities to a creep and an abuser that is willing to mind control his girlfriend to keep her from leaving him and take advantage of her in his car, but instead of actually facing real consequences for it, the show decides to portray him as a victim of Dipper's actions that deserves pitty and love. Worst of all is that, as a bully, he is not even likable because, unlike Pacífica who at least is showed to have solid reasons for being the way she is by living with emotional, abusive and controlling parents, we see that Robbie has a wonderful family, friends, the girlfriend of his dreams and is successful as an artist and in his boy band. He isn't the kind of bully that has a hard life and behaves like that because he is taught to and eventually gets better, he is just a douche bag because of his own insecurities and instead of appreciating everyone who loves and admires him, takes everything for granted and spits all over everything he has. Robbie could have been redeemed if the show actually showed him acknowledging his wrongdoings and feeling remorse over them and him making the effort of becoming a better person, but that never happens, and instead portrays him as a victim that needs to be pittied (even if he is still blaming and wishing dead on a 12 year old), and gets instantly forgiven, even if he did NOTHING to improve himself.
This is not how you write bullies in stories like these, people, and the fact that the writers thought Pacífica needed more redemption than Robbie, when she had done far less than he ever did, is actually concerning. At least Pacífica's worst actions were teasing Mabel, since the ghost incident is her parents' fault, which she doesn't even agree with and is being psychollogically conditioned into obedience because she is being abused. Robbie litterally mind controlled his girlfriend and tried to take advantage of her and tried to beat up a 12 year old, when he's 17 years old.
Well put
@@someguyorsomethingidk Thanks!
Well said, Robbie certainly is one of the worst aspects of the writing of Gravity Falls.
I think another way it could’ve been handled is if the show used Robbie for a “not everyone can be redeemed” type message. I can’t remember if they did that though but I don’t think they did.
Pacifica's crimes were more naunced. It is just as much about what she didn't do than her acts of active torment towards the Pines family. She never tried to use her influence to help the townspeople. She was complicit in allowing the perpetuation of the Northwest Coverup. She knowingly conscripted Dipper to deny the Lumberjack's ghost his unearthly revenge through cohersion and bribery rather than honestly and effectively communicating to Dipper what she knew about the ghost BEFORE things got out of hand. (Rewatch the episode, she and her dad planned it all TOGETHER in the flashback montage.)
Robbie sucked as a character, but he wasn't written as a redeemable character. He was Dipper's antagonistic rival. Robbie was a vehicle for conflict. He was underdeveloped and underutilized, but he wasn't a very complicated character. They retroactive characterized Robbie as "The bleeding heart/ who wears their heart on their sleeve" for the zodiac, a contrived gimmick that misdirected the audience and justified Bill's obsession with the townsfolk. Robbie's crimes were deeply personal towards Wendy, and she forgave him off screen, or perhaps in the moment when everyone joined hands for the zodiac.
Even if Robbie is undeniably worse, neither he nor Tom needed to stick around in their respective shows after they got dumped. They were fundamentally put into the story as "the jerky romantic false lead," and if you took "romance plot" out of it, they'd have nothing else to do.
The main difference is tom at least had an arc and had a likable personality, and great chemistry with the rest of the cast.
He's also one of the only likable characters left by s4, if he had been cut out....im not sure ppl would have much left good to say in terms of the characters.
If the writers hadn't prioritized the romance how they did Tom had multiple opportunities to be more then a love interest and contribute to more of the main plot, especially in terms of the monster stuff. (Though this is something they did to EVERY side love interest unfortunately)
Robbie...less so.
@@jlwiseman98 this
@@jlwiseman98 I have a fondness for Tom, and was about to defend it, but now I don’t feel the need to. Your comment said everything that there is to say.
Whos tom
@@jlwiseman98 absolutely, Tom definitely had a really likable and entertaining personality, and while I’ll guiltily admit I quite liked Robbie when I watched gravity falls as a kid, only Tom holds up as a likable guy. Also, as the writing went down the drain and all the other characters became shitty, Tom was legitimately one of the few characters that made the show worth watching.
Thank you for pointing out the problems with Thompson. Having been on the receiving end of "let's make the insecure guy hurt himself because it's funny and we don't care about how he feels" it is disturbing when a show does this and not point out how cruel that can be.
+ they make him see that as his purpose like amn nah I thought this episode was gonna give Thompson a break
The only reason I never forgot this episode is because of the legendary lines,
"LOVE GOD SIGN MY FACE!"
"ONLY IF YOU SIGN MINE BABY, LETS GET WEIRD!!!"
Oh my god I forgot about that 💀
Robbie's just a jerk and it's okay for a character to just be a jerk. At the end of the day Robbie never really seems to want to be a better person, so there's no reason he would become a better person.
The problem isn't that he is a jerk, the problem is that the show keeps him behaving like a jerk for no reason and the narrative tries to force you to feel sorry for him and wanting the best for him even when he is still behaving like a jerk. That doesn't work when Robbie doesn't feel any remorse, doesn't admit his wrongdoings and blames it all on a 12 year old kid and mopes until someone fixes his romantic life. If Robbie chooses to still be a jerk, that's fine, Preston, Priscilla, Filbrick and Bill are, but the show doesn't try to force you to like them or encourage them for it, the narrative portrays them as actual jerks, but with Robbie the narrative tries to portray him as a victim when he isn't.
@@dracoangelrojo the only time I felt like the narrative was trying to push me into feeling sympathy for Robbie was in the love God. Every other episode he's clearly portrayed as a jerk, and I think saying he behaves like a jerk for no reason is kind of reductive, he behaves that way because that's who he is. He is an insecure aggressive childish unpleasant person, and at no point in the entire show does he ever say any indication that he is interested in being better or even remotely self-aware. The love God just makes us feel sorry for him to drive the plot of that episode which in itself I think was just a way of wrapping up all plot relevance Robbie had so we didn't have to deal with him as much anymore. At the end of the episode he's no longer as aggressive because he's getting laid so we don't have to worry about him as the recurring bully. He's in a relationship so we don't have to worry about any more Wendy drama. He's just completely relegated to being a background character which is fine he had served his purpose in the story and it was time to put him back in the garage. It's not the best episode and while most of the unscrupulous stuff that happens seems to come from a point of neither not maliciousness the show really sends a dodgy message about consent and never does anything about it. But one contrivance in an already questionable episode isn't enough to start thinking about redemption arc
@@noremac7216 I agree with the first part that Robbie was a jerk on most episodes and the narrative only tries to force you to feel sorry for him in The Love God. To me the problem is that the narrative in that episode tries to make him look like he only deserves to be loved, portraying him as a victim that you have to feel sorry for...but that doesn't work when we see no improvement from him in said episode, we just see him as a jerk that still behaves like a jerk throwing a temper tantrum until he gets what he wants and calls that episode a "redemtpion", that's why it doesn't work for me.
Too bad the fandom isnt so chill about a twelve year old ...
@@moona3206 Because the narrative isn't chill about children in the entire show regardless if you're an adult or a 12 year old, Dipper, Pacífica and even Gideon, the last one being 9 years old, payed consequences for their actions the hard way regardless of them being children.
Please do a video on Pacifica. She's the redemption story done right in my opinion
Oh yeah, she did it right and most relatable to anybody who grew up in the same life as her.
@@bigmacsama I mean, when you remember Amity "Currently One of Two Owl House Characters to Have a Decent at Worst Redemption Arc (Hint The Other is Also Female)" Blight exists… th-cam.com/video/-t91gbiKKNY/w-d-xo.html
@@pinkiemeowstic89 worst redemption how exactly?
@@bigmacsama I said "decent at worst", as in I think they were written well.
They honestly did really well with her considering she only really had a couple episodes focused on her
My sister is a funeral director. You’d be surprised how these people act and they would 100% use a body as a table for snacks. 😂😂😂
I can think of at least 100 reasons why that's wrong.
@@Nameless82284 it was the body will to become a table
@@Nameless82284 really? the only 1 I can think of is "did you clean it" seriously, no one is using it, it's just meat, heck, I say use it as snacks if you want.
@@stm7810 And you know the whole moral issue that someone's family member had their loved one's grave basically defiled and their remains defaced to be used as a fucking table, as well as the issue that the person who died is probably seeing this from the afterlife and is seriously pissed. Like imagine from their shoes, imagine you were the corpse and after being given to the funeral directors rather than being respectfully buried, you find out they turned your head and hands into ashtrays and ate everything else. Would that make you happy?
@@venusstar2963 Yes, it would make me happy, first because I actually get to somehow live without a brain, which is the whole thing needed for living since I'm just paterns in a brain, and because I was eaten and useful for smart humans rather than by worms in a dark dirty hole or worse yet, filled with toxins to be preserved in said hole killing plants and animals. also why would my family care? they don't own me, I'm not their slave. and my body isn't their property, if they wanted it they should have asked or grabbed it first. the whole point of a corpse is that it's just that, a lifeless pile of parts that can be recycled, either as new organs for someone else, research experiments, food or a table.
Robbie did not need a girlfriend he needed therapy
He needed his ask kicked i did like when dipper summon rumbel his video game charther too life just too fight robbie my favort part was seeing him slam robbie too the ground just for him too get a tasted of his own medicine
ok, and? a lot of characters needed therapy. That's not how real life works and that's not how good stories are written.
@@paulogaspar8295It depends on the story. Maybe for some characters, realizing a relationship with a good therapist is what they need for their arc. Its definitely what helped me haha
He already got his butt beat, but it went too far when Rumble tried to kill him
@@paulogaspar8295 He's literally emo tho
On the show's defense, Love God or Cupid was a chaotic evil being who sometimes matched people just to watch them suffer and everything around them being destroyed. So the potion thing makes sense, Gravity Falls has shown too much dark stuff to use the "it's a kid's show" excuse. Tambry didn't deserve it, but that's how it is.
fair point, fair point
the thing is I don't think it was clarified if the love god had some divine power that tells him who ppl are "supposed" to be with, or if he's just a dick like Cupid from Fairly Odd Parents who straight-up says he just pairs up whoever he wants just because. I guess it was implied but I think it should've been clearer
That's how it is has been used for years to justify bigotry homophobia slavery and continued nonsense in the supreme Court...
I say yeah screw that
@@Planag7 what the fuck does a myth has to do with Court? Get some help, touch some grass, breath some fresh air and stop saying nonsense.
According to Alex Hirsch, in the DVD commentary, the idea behind the mind control episode was that Wendy wasn't being controlled at all. Yes, there was a subliminal message on the cd (like many have in real life), but Robbie didn't know about it, and it wasn't even affecting Wendy at all. Dipper was just being paranoid.
Hence, both boys messed up their chances with Wendy in that episode: Robbie, by ripping off a song, and lying to her about having written it himself, and Dipper, by letting his jealousy & paranoia get the better of him, and going out of his way to ruin their relationship.
they rlly should've put that in the episode if that was the idea. Considering everything (spooky case, robbie's expressions, the lyrics literally mentioning hypnosis, wendy doing a complete 180 after hearing the song, etc etc.), I still think Dipper's reaction was pretty justified. Also saying Robbie didn't know abt the subliminal message confuses me 'cause iirc when Dipper shows it to Wendy and she asks Robbie he acts guilty like he was fully aware of it and just didn't want her finding out
@@tiablue9106 Yeah, they definitely should have made it more clear.
Then they definitely could’ve done that better, especially with all the subtle story elements they had hinting to it actually being brainwashing along with all of the crazy stuff that goes on the town. Knowing all what Dipper knew about Gravity Falls at the time, I would’ve been sus too
Well I really understood what Alex Hirsch meant with the episode, Wendy accepted Robbie back because she was touched by him writing they song and not because the CD made her. All the suspicious stuff were for the audience, they should think that maybe Dipper was rigth until the end. However the fact this episode remains controversial means the writers didn't do the best job or maybe that was their goal all along. Idk.
@@JDWalker495 even alex himself admitted he should have done a better job at explaining it
Imagine bullying, threatening and trying to beat up a kid half your size.
Not even half prob 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
One thing that got to me is that he's AWARE wendy wouldnt date him because he's 12. In the episode where he challenges dipper to a fight he literally says something like "you think she'll choose some kid over me" or something along those lines. Yet he still views dipper as a threat. That is weird.
Robby is kinda a creep. He fricking brain washed Wendy with his song. Bruh he was also jealous of a freaking 12 year old. The whole love triangle thing they were trying to do was extremely annoying.
@Kevin Green drama is too fun man
@Kevin Greencause drama is fun for me man
@Kevin Green dude it’s just drama every show does it to raise the steaks
@Kevin Green dude it’s for entertainment I just see their bad flaws as what their personality is and see how it could be used to entertain me I just didn’t care who deserved redemption or feel anger about it
@Kevin Green you too but hey it’s a show I just hope it’s entertaining now I’m going to watch the dark night
I’ve had a Robbie headcanon for a while that the reason he’s the opposite of his parents is that they laughed off the death of somebody he cared about like a grandparent. It’s probably completely wrong and doesn’t excuse his awful behavior but is an interesting concept I think!
I can see it. Like they tried seeing the positive side of things but unknowingly making Robbie feel like his sadness or grief isn’t valid. And since he can’t communicate his emotions well he let it bottle up and have him become who he is
Vivi22 Like they went too far and refused to acknowledge anything that wasn’t peppy and positive.
Or it could just be that he's a normal teenager. This is pretty par for the course
Checks out well
@@Regu269 yes but he acts like a miserable person a teenager tends to be sad or angry for having a hard life but robbie has a happy family and friends and love from his girlfriend it just makes no sense.
Cemeteries are actually generally made to hang out in. A lot of times they're called "memorial gardens" or something like that because the intention is for people to spend time in them. As long as you're not damaging things or being disrespectful in the space there's really nothing wrong with it.
"Or even Bill"
How is Bill even in the competition for Gravity Fall's worst writing?
Yeah I’m confused about that as well
Because if Kitty separated Pacifica from her parents, the fandom would want their (Kitty if you see this, I'm sorry if this isn't the right pronoun set, I just default to they/them when I don't know someone's pronouns) head on a spike.
I think it might have something to do with him being an all-powerful god of sorts but was fooled multiple times by literal children, but tbh it's not like Dipper and Mabel were smarter or anything, but more because Bill just couldn't see what funky shit that they came up with coming probably.
@@chronofactor2037 He wasn't fooled by two kids, he was fooled by the smartest man in the world and his scam genius brother.
@@antoniomariamacri7500 Has has *been* fooled by two kids still though, in the end it was Stan and Ford that beat him in the end but he did fall for Mabel and Dipper's shenanigans before.
The writing definitely destroyed Robbie’s character because they either had a weird direction for him to go, or they just panicked last minute and just did it as they went along. But yeah, again I’ve not seen this episode, not that I can recall. Maybe I saved myself from the misery it had, but I definitely did see a good chunk of GF when it was airing new episodes. But yeah, Robbie didn’t deserve a good ending after that
If I remember correctly the writers were surprised by how popular the teenagers were and decided to make another episode with them in the foreground. Pretty sure that they had to come up with something for Robbie because it wouldn't make much sense to exclude him from a "teen" episode.
I don't get why we give redemption arcs to those who genuinely don't deserve it. White diamond from Steven universe got one and she was literally space Hitler.
Loki from the mcu was also an space hitler and got an redemption arc. People think that an character being charismatic = character must be forgiven for everything he did.
I agree, in fact, something that always bugged me about Steven Universe was the fact that they villanized Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond after it was clearly showed that she was ABUSED by all the other diamonds and despite all of this, tried to save the earth from them after trying to resolve everything peacefully, yet the show FORGIVES the abusers but not the victim. Like, litterally, we see all the characters ending up hating Pink after she was a victim to the diamonds and after she sacrificed to protect the earth and her family, yet despite this, the ones who get so easily forgiven were the diamonds, the space dictators AND Pink's abusers, and they all end up on good terms with Steven and the gems, but they NEVER forgive Rose for it. What the heck?
@@dracoangelrojo that was definitely not a good lesson to teach kids. Reminds me of the episode of bobs burgers where Bob apologized to his father even though the dad's a complete douchebag.
@@danielperez143 Totally agree, it was a terrible lesson no matter if you're an adult or a kid, a horrible message.
@@dracoangelrojo I'm glad you agree 👍
Controversial opinion- I think Dipper could’ve taken Robbie if they actually fought. Robbie seems like the kind of guy I could have beaten up as a twelve year old.
Yeah I certainly wouldn't need to summon a video game character to beat the shit out of him
if Dipper could handle the multibear then fighting Robbie would've been a cake walk
@@Numbuh8578Yeah the rumble mcscermish thing was totally unnecessary
@@Numbuh8578
I forgot that the Video game episode came out after the one with the Minotaurs.
@@craigpeoples9883 but then we wouldn't have an episode of Dipper had beaten Robbie and i can't live in a world without Rumble
The way I see it, his terrible redemption is just an extension of Mable Syndrome. The show never makes Robbie out to seem like we should actually sympathize with him. He's a low-level asshole who's role is to be an antagonist to Dipper who due to being so low-level can't really be defeated the way a normal villain could be. He wasn't really a bad character, because he played the specific role he was given well.
Because his "villainy" was so low-tier I don't think he's a character who "doesn't deserve redemption". He just would need a GOOD redemption arc to make it work. He needed a chance to grow out of his emo phase and develop into a better person. Instead, Mabel decided to force the issue and because Mabel can do no wrong, the entire universe conspired to make her solution work immediately, while glossing over all the unfortunate implications involved.
actually, according to Alex H. Himself the CD Robbie used had no actual magic powers and Robbie had no knowledge of the backmask, the reason Wendy decided to give him another chance is that she thought the idea of him writing a song for her was sweet, In which he actually just stole a song with plans to woo her, Im not justifying him but he had no brainwashing intentions, just deceptions about writing a song, Alex said if there was anything he could have redone in this episode it would be explaining this better
I hate that it pretty much seems like Alex Hirsch wants to lessen Robbie bad deeds, since it was never mentioned in the episode I prefer to use death of the author to headcanon that Robbie did know. I prefer Robbie to be a bad guy.
that just sounds like a last minute addition. every clue about the cassete pointed to it actually being a cursed mind control tape
Please just give me a plot-line where the supposed "Love potion" turns out to be a "Confidence potion" that just gives you the power you lacked to ask that one person out that you've been too afraid to ask
That actually sounds like an awesome idea for a plot.
Well that reminds me a little bit of Hey Arnold. Only that was the opposite. Helga wanted an anti love potion because her feelings for Arnold made her act weird. In the end the potion was obviously fake.
That's called alcohol
Best way to reconstruct this trope.
Have the "crush" be an Aromantic Asexual whose immune to the love potion and gets pissed and the character is viewed as wrong for making it.
Tf is that? ppl born without genitals?
@@Lrizu No it's someone who doesn't experience physical and romanic attraction.
@@Nova-jz7cl we call those soulless beings.
Right...cause that's what we need more of in kids cartoons, specific sexually to characters when children give absolutely no shits about a character's sexuality...and ppl wonder why pedophilia is so rampant especially nowadays
@@TheKillerEmcee So you're saying that if someone holds no interest in having a romantic relationship with someone, nor a sexual, intimate one, they're soulless. Sure thing, bud.
If robs parents were actually psychotic on the body used as a table, that might explain his problems since he was never checked out.
If you look at Robbie and his parents, you would question if he is the zombie from the journal.
6 years later of the end of the show and you can still explore a characters without being boring
I only like Robbie a little because he's funny, I can't believe there are apparently people who like Robbie as a character
A thing that bothered me here is that the fact that when Robbie threatened Dipper, Mabel was indifferent and didn't bother protecting her brother from some insecure jerk but on the flip side Dipper went out his way to help Mabel destroy Pacifica's family name when she berated Mabel and almost got detained in Gitmo for it.
Don't forget, despite being a jerk to her brother, Mabel still wanted Robbie to be happy and gave him a girlfriend despite not deserving it while Dipper hated Pacifica even long after her rivalry with Mabel ended.
One thing you left out is that Mabel literally forgot her lesson of not meddling in love life in Roadside attraction.
Apart from the "Mabel forgot her lesson in the roadtrip attraction" thing, I completely agree with you
Mabel should have been called out so many times through the series
Roadside Attraction came out after this episode. It's the final episode before Weirdmagedon.
@@icecreamhero2375 That's King's point: that Roadside Attraction is evidence that Mabel learnt nothing in the Love God because she goes right back at mendling in other people's lives without their consent.
@@dracoangelrojo In my opinion medling was always Mabel's biggest character flaw. Roadside is awful but I think Love God is awesome.
@@icecreamhero2375 Eh, to me both episodes are terrible (except Stan's subplot in The Love God, that's easily the top of the entire series when it comes to comedy, hands down). I'm glad you enjoyed the first one tho!
The episode where Robbie decides to fight Dipper especially bothers me, that I'm surprised you didn't bring up these parts: the fact that Stan, Mabel, and Soos stood by and didn't try to intervene or anything whilst Dipper was getting fucking threatened by a kid four years older than him! I get that Stan is meant to be irresponsible and it's played off for laughs a lot, but jfc, he didn't step in to say fucking anything while his 12yo nephew was getting threatened to be beat up by his fucking employee's boyfriend?! And worse, the show makes a big joke out of it with Stan wanting to place bets on it. It's so fucking sadistic even for him. There was Dipper getting physically insulted and thrown right into a bin in front of Stan, and yet he didn't do anything!! But as soon as Mabel and the rest of the family gets insulted by Pacifica in a way that's not even a big deal in that golf episode, Stanley is ready to fucking punch her. Seriously... the shows double standard is fucking amazing.
Mabel shows no concern for her brother, ofc, not sticking up for him in anyway or encouraging Stan to fucking do his job as the adult there and protect Dipper, or try to help Dipper in anyway.
Then the worst is Soos...after half the time he's supportive to the twins and especially Dipper as an older brother type figure, he shows no concern either, and even sorta makes Dipper out to be a wimp for hiding for tryna hide from Robbie! WHY?! There's no fucking concern or empathy here being shown for a powerless and scared child who has literally no fucking clue what to do in this situation, and who has no one to turn to but a fucking OP sentient arcade character. Fucking wow...
I think in that case, while it was messed up no one tried to help, they didn't really see why Dipper and Robbie were fighting in the first place and didn't take it seriously (plus, Robbie is kinda wimpy so they probably wouldn't think he could do a lot of damage, even though he's four years older than Dipper). Idk it's been a while since I watched that episode
Now I see why Mabel is hated
@@RandomSkyeRoses Wait but what was Mabel meant to do? Fight the 16-year old in his place? Now that I think about it, what could have Mabel done that wouldn't make Robbie think even less of Dipper? "Pfft, you need your sister to fight your battles for you? Lame." I think Mabel should've supported Dipper but trying to get in the middle of it is like when a teen's parent tells off a bully. The people who already thought little of you think less of you for not handling your own battle. I think Stan would've really liked the punch Robbie in Dipper's place and that would've at least struck fear in Robbie. Or he could have taught Dipper how to fight a little bit.
@@47ratsinahoodie what was Mabel supposed to do?
"Grunkle Stan, my brother is being threatened, help us"
@@isaacpianos5208 I thought Stan _did_ find out, and didn't do squat. I think Stan being Stan would've encouraged it because Robbie's, well, Robbie (especially with how he treated Dipper already). Not really a tough guy.
Honestly, things would have ended up way worse for Stan if his 'I heart kids' sign hadn't been damaged
Bill was hilarious. I don't run into people that don't like him.
19:50 If "love god" had revealed that the potion was temporary, we'd never have gotten that scene with the Stan-Balloon swallowing him in his moment of hubris.
Robbie never actually mind controlled Wendy, or even attempted to. In the DVD commentary for “Boyz Crazy” creator Alex Hirsch clarified that Robbie had plagiarized the song from another band and had no idea about the message. Alex lamented not making this nuance more clear in the episode, since it left a lot of people confused. Robbie’s still in the wrong, but plagiarism isn’t nearly as bad as actual mind control. It’s a bit of sloppy writing that unfortunately led to many people viewing the character as a literal sociopath rather than what he is, an dumb teenager who lies and acts like a dick because he’s insecure.
I prefer Robbie being a sociopath
Alex actually said that the record didn’t have any special properties. Robbie just plagiarized a rock band that tried to do the mind control message but failed.
Yeah agreed, Robbie isn't a good person at all he is petty and spiteful to the point where he attempts to beat up a 12 year old kid over something which ultimately doesn't matter because he did win he got Wendy yet he was so immature he still picked a fight.
It gets even worse when he uses a hypnotic song to brainwash Wendy to be with him and go to make out point which is a criminal act in so many ways and is disturbing and horrible to imagine how he could have continued this if dipper and Stan hadn't intervened.
Worse of all Robbie was seen as a victim or at least portrayed as someone to be pitied despite him mind controlling Wendy to make out with him and gets rewarded by having Mabel also commit a crime by drugging him and tambry to be in a happy relationship, which is equally as wrong as what he did to Wendy.
His redemption is incredibly poor as he wasn't redeemed at all merely drugged to be happier and be forgiven by his victim, Wendy, who again was being mind controlled to go out with him after wanting to break up which should never have happened without some form of amendment from Robbie at the very least.
He hasn't done anything to deserve this at all; we don't see him get better as a person by helping others, he doesn't apologies to Wendy merely lie when he was caught, we don't see him do anything before which would justify him having a good ending.
Best comment and summary of all my problems with Robbie, you deserve far more likes, mate.
@@dracoangelrojo
Thx, glad you agree😊
Robbie shouldnr have been a zodiac maybe replace him with waddles the bacon zodiac: represents friendship
@@DahHourglass
yeah agreed, all hail waddles the pig 🐷😆
the entire point of Robbie's character design was for people to not like him he was a VILAN in this story.
Well no duh, Pacifica & Gideon fall into the same territory. Major difference between them & Robbie though, is that Robbie is the only one who's character arch is handled more poorly than the other two. Gideon (somewhat) redeemed himself at the end of the series when he helps Dipper, Wendy & Soos get to the bubble to free Mabel, sacrificing himself to Bill in the process. And for Pacifica, she's shown to be nowhere near as bad a bully to Mabel as Robbie is to Dipper & she's shown to not only have an actual reason for her bad behavior, but also starts to show improvement as the series goes on. Robbie never gets that kind of redemption though, despite that fact that he's clearly supposed to be a part of the main cast of characters to help try to take down Bill.
I don't think Gravity Falls realized how on some ironic level it's perfect that Mabel and Robbie relate to each other.
Robbie lying in a grave speaking to a picture of Wendy, unable to let go is exactly what Mabel would have done. Oh, I forgot, it's literally just a less dramatic version of Mabel standing at a pole forever because Waddles isn't hers.
I think when it came to Robbie they wanted him to be like Pacifica. Pacifica was Mabel's rival who got redeemed in Northwest Manor Mystery thanks to her interactions with dipper. The Love God felt like it wanted to do the same thing with Robbie. Where it has Robbie (effectively Dippers rival) become redeemed by an interaction with Mabel.
I never realize that, they did try to redeem each of the twins rivals with Dipper redeeming Pacifica and Mabel with Robbie. Too bad this only worked with Pacifica.
When you realize Robbie is voiced by T.J Miller, it makes him even worse.
Wait , what did TJ Miller do?
@@xempororhxppyx He’s just known for being an asshole. There have been several sexual assault charges at him. And he even made a fake bomb threat once.
What did he do
Check on the Wikipedia page you'll find out what he did it ain't pretty
The whole "we have to hate eachother in secret like girls do" was not a resolution for me
I never thought Robbie was redeemed because I never thought of this as a Robbie redeem episode.
4:24 fun fact the whole cipher wheel thing wasn't supposed to play a part in the show and the symbols chosen were just random but was written in after many fans started speculating over it, which explains why Robbie barley did anything in the season finale.
You know I never really thought about this before but it hit me while I was watching this video. Robbie and Tambry never had the love spell broken. Assuming it’s permanent if no one reverses it does that mean the characters decided to keep them under the spell just because they’re “better” versions of each other?! That’s so messed up!!! Also I gotta wonder where Robbie got that CD he used to hypnotize Wendy although given the town of Gravity Falls and what it’s people are like I wouldn’t be surprised if he just found it at a random thrift store haha 🤣
I need a story where that thrift store is the main setting. Would have been so much more interesting than Little Gift Shop of Horrors.
That's EXACTLY what happened, they tried to fix it with Journal 3 tho saying that the potion only lasted 3 hours, but the fact that Mabel accepted to leave them like that BEFORE knowing that is still messed up.
i thought they kept the potion on because they were happier and undoing it would return them to being miserable, not that this makes it okay
@@nellewoodruff6337 But their happiness isn't real because it's the potion working, not them really into love, therefore they are not really happy, and very less by choice.
There isn't a cure though. Love God told Mabel to just let the relationship run it's course and instead she stole a potion that would have forced Robbie and Tambry to hate each other. It was a two wrongs don't make a right kind of thing. I really don't think you even need supplemental material to get the vibe that the relationship was free to live or die on it's own merits.
Edit: I think I might have been misremembering, I can't find the line where "Love God told Mabel to just let the relationship run it's course."... But I did find that the Anti-Love potion is literally called a cure to the love potion on it's label so... I'm just wrong, Ignore me.
The way I remember it is a better episode than reality. The "two wrongs don't make a right" angle is the only way to make the ending work but Anti-Love potion actually is a cure...
My favorite part about love god was back in 2014 people found the complex hidden message involving letters on different objects scrolling by in the background of the chase scene *on the night of the premiere*
Robbie had the potential to be a really great character. There are some points about him I sort of like, but bad writing just meant that those points were then buried under layers of "he did this wrong, he did that wrong". He could have had such an amazing redemption and realised how badly he hurt Wendy. It could have shown him taking a look at the friend group, realising something was off, and trying to fix it. I don't care if Robbie had ended up with Tambry eventually, as long as it was on their own terms, and not forced. Speaking of, Mabel never told anyone what happened, she just left it to chance that it could work out.
Robbie had potential, the fact that he couldn't get himself to punch Dipper after everything he's been put through in that one episode, they just unfortunately didn't expand on it. So yeah I have to agree with this for the most part
Kitty monk: It's fake and artificial, it's like being in love with a robot!
Scarlet witch: Excuse me!
Honestly, I just disliked this episode for the message it tries to sell. I had nothing against Robbie getting a new gf, but I really hated how Mabel, instead of trying to help Robbie get over Wendy, just shoved him into a new relationship. Like it's dating 101 that you gotta get over the previous person before you date a new one. The episode should've focused on that idea instead of what we got.
Also just the fact that Wendy was upset at Tambry dating Robbie seems very out of character. I mean Wendy isn't exactly super mature, but nothing about her until that point gave the impression that she'd be the kind of person to feel that way.
Mabel, not having been through a relationship like Robbie, never really got the experience that relationships don't instantly make your life better and sometimes you just gotta sulk before you can be back to yourself again. Iirc, she kind of learns this in the Society of the Blind Eye episode but I do think they could've moved it here instead, or at least the part of it that relationships don't instantly make your life better, and some people need to become people worthy of loving.
No Wendy's reaction was valid. Not only is your best friend since childhood dating your ex a serious problem and is not okay in all circumstances, especially when the person is unaware of it. Seeing how horrible Robbie treated Wendy, even trying to take advantage of her, is WORSE. So not only is Tambry dating her ex without telling her, who she once had feelings for, Tambry's ALSO dating the guy who hypnotized her and tried to take advantage of her. No doubt that Wendy told her what happened between them too, she had every right to be pissed.
@@samitrahill5723 I can get your reasoning there, but nothing about Wendy's reaction suggested that any of those reasons are why she was upset with Tambry. She didn't mention anything along the lines of "How could she date Robbie behind my back? She knows how much of a jerk he is." She just said that she was upset that Tambry didn't tell her, which is also kinda stupid since they had literally just started dating, and Mabel even told Wendy herself that they had just started dating. Besides, Wendy had never expressed post breakup that she didn't want to hang out with Robbie. So why would Tambry think that dating the dude would piss off Wendy? Besides. The idea of not dating a friend's ex is just plain dumb, and definitely doesn't seem like something a chill girl like Wendy would believe in.
@@bluebird1914 No matter how chill you are, this situation could irritate anyone. And still, Wendy was valid in feeling that way, because not only is dating a friend's ex bad and shallow, not telling said friend about it is even worse because they KNOW it's wrong. And just because she didn't say it, doesn't mean it doesn't play a factor in why she was mad. And sure they JUST started dating, but as soon as interest in Robbie was suspected, a good friend would've said something and assure it was okay. (Sure she couldn't, because of the potion but Wendy didn't know that) And not dating a friend's ex is reasonable, because why would you want to get with someone your friend had feelings for after they broke up, especially when they broke up in a way similar to Wendy and Robbie did because he was a jerk. Now if the situation was that Wendy and Robbie went on a few dates just to try it out and mutually saw that they weren't right for each other, that's fine because there wasn't much emotion there. If they were serious(Which Wendy and Robbie were), NOW it's a problem. Again, no matter how chill you are, this type of betrayal can and will hurt anyone. It wasn't ooc, because all chill characters have their limits.
@@47ratsinahoodie Exactly
I thought the Love God himself was an interesting element of the love potion trope. The whole trope is based on how we are sometimes struck with this sort of instant, powerful infatuation with someone that doesn't necessarily make logical sense, comes out of nowhere, and most significantly is completely out of our control. It's why Cupid in greek mythology was depicted shooting arrows at people to make them fall in love. As much as we romanticize that sort of infatuation, it really isn't that different than getting drugged in terms of its effect on us.
So, in settings when there are actual love gods out there, that sort of implies it's ALWAYS magic roofies.
huh, that's actually pretty interesting
I honesty have to agree with you that I really didn't care too much about Robbie let alone care rather got got true redemption or not cause no matter which scenario or episodes where you try to make Robbie learn from his mistaken or have a change of heart; I honestly don't see It and It's truly bad when I have to make the patsy; Thompson Into a true redeemable chad compared to this virgin goth wannabe, even our main lead; Dipper who tries so hard just to Impress his crush when he himself Is extremely not the right age for her. He's not even worthy of being one of the main threats let alone a recurring one at best cause he's just one of those obstacle-type bullies you normally deal with every early mid 2000's shows you can think of and even thy got some redemption now and then Take Tom Lucitor from Star Vs. The Forces Of Evil for example; sure he someone we except to automatically hate because he's was star's ex, but still he developed more then just a hateable jerk when he was trying to get over some of his anger Issues just to be a better demon prince and get over star, he and Marco had a cute bromance that got him somewhere to soft him a brighter and more positive side to him and even settled his differences with her Ex's but too bad all of that hard earned effort was smashed and thrown up the window just to make more room for Starco Fans everywhere In Season 4. I can somehow see some possible decent episodes like; Robbie caring for his rowdy bros, trying to help his family more stay In business, or even drive Into Robbie's past when he wasn't always a nasty teen and someone (or something) traumatized and bullied him and couldn't got over ti ever since I can at least some potential.
I never really saw this episode as "redeeming Robbie" more just "he's not going to be an antagonist". It was a cute episode that didn't need to be much else and as Pacifica's episode proves it's hard to get every character developed in a limited timeframe.
thompson was never in a toxic relationship. he was that one guy you make fun of but still love. if thompson was more outspoken then of course they would be a bit lighter. but he isn’t so they can do a moderate amount of poking fun
Love how gravity falls is so loved, even after 10 years people are still making videos!!!
I hate Robbie as much as the next guy, but Alex Hirsch has confirmed in the episode commentary that Robbie didn't know about the backwards message. He'd plagiarized some death metal band that put liked to put backwards messages in their music Alex has also said the message didn't do anything anyway because backwards messages don't work like that.
Wendy is a teenager. It didn't really strike me as super out of character for her to join in - or at least stand by - as her friends relentlessly bully Thompson.
After all - that was almost the sort of relationship she had with Dipper.
He lied about being "technically a teen" to hang out with her group, she doubted he would fit in - she was surprised that he was 'cool enough' to hang out with.
I love Wendy. Shes awesome - but shes also 15. Empathy isn't a well developed part of a teenagers world yet.
Robbie... isn't greatly fleshed out. But what were his crimes, really?
- Challenged a 12 year old to a fight ((that he didn't intend to get violent in - or at least not particularly violent. He was bark with no intent, or ability, to bite.))
He is an edgy teenage boy who feels he doesn't fit in with his family - and the girl he likes would rather spend time with some little kid.
"Scare him off and get an ego boost for being tough" is a stupid, immature but completely believable choice of action.
- Put backwards words in a song to stop Wendy from breaking up with him.
It is unclear whether or not the song ACTUALLY magically brainwashed her.
For it being magic:
1. Its a weird black disc in a weird case, with a song he didn't even write on it.
2. It also has an immediate effect on Wendy despite being a bit shit. Sounds kinda magical.
Against it being magic:
1. Stanley says the exact same thing happened to him.
Was it the same song, sung acoustically by a hippy? Are all backwards song lyrics brainwashing? Both are unlikely.
(Does Stan probably not have the healthiest ways to mentally acknowledge that a girl /chose/ to leave him for another man? Pretty damn likely.)
2. Wendy did not act brainwashed - she simply changed her mind. No weird eyes, no weird words - that's acting far more like being /convinced/ than being drugged.
3. When the truth came out she wasn't even mad that the song had weird shit in it - She was angry that he lied about writing it.
4. Robbie has an edgy themed band. Black cd's and weird cases are probably common for him (and super fucking rad).
I think the entire POINT of the inclusion of Stanley's "hippy stole my girl" story into the plot is specifically to say that 'people can be moved by nice gestures/by music'.
At this point of the story Stanley 'didn't believe' in the supernatural. He just knows that sometimes people will 'steal yo girl' by manipulating them - and he doesn't want Wendy to get hurt.
Is it fucked up that Robbie likely sat down and googled "brainwashing love song to stop my girlfriend from breaking up with me"?
Yep. That's not very nice.
He is a 16 year old outcast who isn't very emotionally mature. Mild manipulation tactics are commonplace in teenage relationships - heck, so is completely destroying friend groups, getting violent and treating drama as 'entertainment'.
...
Uh... that's it. Those are his crimes.
Robbie is a teenage boy who lied to his girlfriend so she wouldn't break up with him - and tried to scare a 12 year old away so he didn't distract her from looking at him and his like... skinny jeans... guitar... whatever he thought was going to win her over.
MAYBE he googled a real brain-washing song, just to be super-manipulative... but how would he know that sort of thing might actually work? He didn't expect a video game character to try and murder him - he doesn't expect the supernatural. He just didn't want Wendy to leave him and didn't think of a better, more respectful way.
Nothing that happened in the love god episode was his fault - he was drugged.
(Not that he did anything wrong in that episode, he just went on a date and cried over his ex. He wasn't even trying to make it Wendy's problem. he was alone before a bunch of people he used to call friends came and shamed him. Nice.)
He isn't great or anything. Would have been nice if he learned a lesson or two, sure. But he isn't exactly "unworthy of redemption" - unless about 80% of all kids are also unworthy.
If we're going to talk about horrible love interests we're supposed to like, are we ever going to bring up Sierra? I swear that girl deadass drugged Cody and forced him to marry her, and I was supposed to think she was a hero? I swear I watched a completely different show than what everyone else in the community saw.
Agreed! Wt was great... except Sierra.
Robbie is like 16 years old, Dipper is 12. Robbie wanted to fight with a 12 year old.
Honestly I never thought Robbie would get a redemption arc, nor did it seem like the show was giving him one.
Love God honestly just seemed like the writers trying to squeeze out one more Wendy and Co. storyline before the series started to get more into the more serious stuff. He didn't seem like a victim in the episode, he kind of just seemed... pathetic. Like even Dipper doesn't feel the need to dog pile on him because it'd be pointless. And I know she isn't the focus of this video, but this was one of the episodes that made me think twice about Mabel's character more so than Robbie's..
She inserts herself into a situation she's advised not to, she is constantly trying to force help and changes on a character (Robby) that clearly doesn't want it, and she is actually willing to drug not just that character but another neutral party (Tambry) to achieve that goal.
And she kind of gets off with no consequences, like yeah she had to confront her own romantic past and learned not to mess with people's emotions. But everything else is fine because luckily Robbie and Tambry are happy with each other and their friend group gets back together again like nothing happened.
I mentioned it in your Mabel video but it's weird to me that this is the Mabel-centric episode but it involves a character that Mabel barely interacts with, and doesn't really advance her or Robbie's character. Interestingly enough the episode right after that is Northwest Mansion Mystery, and has Pacifica as the main focus but Mabel is hardly involved at all with the main storyline. Dipper is the one that helps Pacifica grow and develop.
The writing was definitely poor in that episode, I'd honestly say Love God is on par with Roadside Attraction for having a weak plot and terrible character decisions.
@@swaggasaurus4837 Yeah, kind of weak there. I feel like Roadside attraction and Love God are perfect examples of the tonal contrast that exists in the series when it comes to Dipper and Mabel.
Roadside attraction seems to be more heavy on criticizing Dipper, for being a "player", having a whole scene where he's called out directly by all the girls he interacted with and even Mabel calls him a "betrayer". While Love God seems to be light on any actual punishment or critique on Mabel's character, aside from Love God calling her out, despite the fact that what she did seems a whole league worse.
Dipper in Roadside Attraction, at the very least seems self-aware, he questions Stan on whether or not "flirting" with all these girls is morally right and says that he doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. And at the end he genuinely apologizes to Candy.
Mabel on the other hand doesn't really seem to even recognize that forcing Robbie and Tambry together without their consent is bad in it's own right. She only believes it's a problem when the group dynamic suffers which gets resolved about as quickly as it came up (which actually does make sense because teenagers).
@@kyleoverton334 Those are some very good points. My problem with Roadside attraction is the fact that it undermines the ending of the shapeshifter episode. Sure you could say its realistic that Dipper hasn't entirely moved on from Wendy, but the entire episode's narrative is painfully repetitive, teaching Dipper a lesson that the show already hammered over his head.
But I completely agree, at the very least Roadside attraction gave Dipper some self-awareness towards his actions and his apology to Candy was genuine and thoughtful.
About Love God, I just thought the episode was messy overall. So many out of character moments, like Wendy's pettiness towards Tambry for dating her ex. I mean, for the first half of the episode none of them could stand Robbie. Wouldn't it make more sense for Wendy to be concerned for her best friend pursuing the guy who brainwashed her and antagonized Dipper?
@@swaggasaurus4837 Yeah Roadside Attraction did feel like it was repeating a character beat. Honestly I didn't mind that, it's really the "player/pick-up artist" subtext that I felt was too much.
I think the episode would've worked better if it was just Dipper becoming more confident with girls. Have the interaction with the girls be treated as genuine and platonic (which it already felt like it was) and let him realize that Wendy might not be the only girl for him.
You can even keep the part where Candy develops a crush for him (which I thought was adorable) but put more focus on Dipper trying to navigate telling her he's not interested, letting him learn what it's like to be on the receiving end of unrequited love and how hard it is to let someone down without hurting them.
And Love God definitely was a weird character moment for Wendy. We know that she and Tambry have been friends since childhood. Yet she doesn't think it's weird that she suddenly has an attraction for Robbie, when we know that she clearly doesn't before the love potion is used. I guess you could play it off as teenage emotions, but her lack of concern or suspicion is strange.
@@kyleoverton334 She would have questions about Robbie's sudden attraction to Tambry too. Love God would honestly be better if Wendy was more involved in the plot and was trying to help Tambry and Robbie, initial thinking Robbie is pulling another paranormal stunt, because she doesn't want them to reexperience the whole cd incident again.
Robbie was a meh tier character for me, he just kinda existed.
@Kevin Green honestly the Wendy romance felt like a whole lot of nothing to me, like sure it's realistic and having the guy not get the girl is a good message but I feel like it got more focus than it needed and kinda cucked Wendy in terms of being a member of the main cast.
He's boring. He's not a "villain" so I don't think he needs redemption but he's not a likeable character either. He's just a dumb, normal teenager
Pacífica got a redemption for doing far less worse stuff than Robbie did in the entire series: Pacífica was being a victim of domestic abuse and was blamed for stuff her parents conditioned her into obedience for and that she clearly didn't want to do, and she was 12 that her worst actions were laugh at Mabel and humilliate her in public a couple of times, Robbie on the other hand is a 17 year old that bullied, hit and tried to beat a 12 year old up over his own insecurities and roofied his girlfriend to take advantage of her. He might not be a villain, but he is definitely a terrible person, and definitely needed a redemption arc if they wanted him to be likable.
Isn't kinda implied that Robbie is undead and it's causing serious mental issues in him?
@@justice8718 Nope, the undead part was just a fan theory based on the entry of zombies looking like teenagers.
I think the temporary aspect of the spell would have made the episode way better. Also Robbie should have had an episode where he does get better, but Wendy still won't get back together with him. The problem with the attempt at redemption is that he didn't have as much time to grow as say Pacifica. Pacifica gets two whole episodes based on redeeming her, where Robbie gets one where he's forced to go through character development. Often, redemption only works when the character willingly takes responsibility, but Robbie neither willingly commits, nor takes responsibility.
I think the issue was he had no reason to interact with the pines after that, he's not obsessing over Wendy anymore so his not going to go to the Mystery shack all the time, he never liked dipper from the start so it's not like there's some budding friendship their waiting to bloom, like before he felt threatened he showed a dislike for him, Mabel has no real connection to him, and even with the friend group being repaired at the end, Tambry and Robbie would still be somewhat distant from the group as they're focused on their relationship.
Isn't it kinda funny that Robbie looks almost exactly like Tuffnut from the How to train your dragon franchise, a character that T.J. Miller also voices.
We’ll actually not only that Mabel left them drugged on the whole episode!!!!!🤦♀️
Okay but Thompson's arc hits to close to home....
There a reason I dislike enforced Redemption arcs as it gives people the wrong idea that forgiveness is easy and that we don't see time how there actions play effect but if you give it to someone who realizes their mistakes or questions there actions than it gives people time to see how someone actions can hurt or push others away something avatar the last airbender got right with Zuko and Infinity train got right with Grace
Can you do a video on Gideon parents, especially his dad? They let him walk all over them and so don't properly teach him morals and consequences which likely led to a good portion of his behavior. Gideon never learned to take no for an answer leading to his anger when rejected by mabel
Granted, his mom at least seems more than a little traumatized by him, so it's probably hard for her to stand up to him.
Robbie NEVER deserved a redemption because he NEVER made the effort to get it by correcting himself, not in the entire series. I can't agree with this video enough, Robbie is easily my MOST HATED CHARACTER of the entire series, and not because there aren't most hateful ones like Preston and Priscilla, Gideon, Filbrick and Bill, they are and the narrative doesn't deny it, it's because despite Robbie's terrible behaviour and actions for NO reasons other than his own insecurities, the narrative portrays Robbie as a victim that needs to be pitied and rewarded...AFTER HE LITTERALLY BULLIED OVER A DRAWING AND TRIED TO BEAT UP A 12 YEAR OLD KID AND THEN MIND CONTROLLED HIS GIRLFRIEND TO KEEP HER FROM BREAKING UP AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HER IN HIS CAR. Worst of all? The show instead of admitting that Robbie was being a bully, a creep and an abuser with Wendy in that episode, and make him own up to his mistakes and make up for it, the show LITTERALLY blames Dipper, DIPPER, of the broken relationship, because apparently, according to the writers, Robbie wasn't wrong in trying to mind control Wendy, oh no, Dipper is the one being in the wrong for "getting in th way of their relationship and ruinning it", implying that the right thing to do would have been to let Robbie mind control Wendy at his own will...What.the.H, people?! It doesn't help that Robbie NEVER admits he did anything wrong, oh no, he has the balls to blame Dipper of HIS mistakes (and even use one of his pictures as a bullseye and write "Die Dipper Die" on his walls). And instead of actually making him face consequences for his actions and change as a person and get better, he only feels sorry for himself and cries until someone else pitties him enough to get him a girlfriend. Robbie NEVER admits he did anything wrong, NEVER apologizes over anything he did, doesn't even TRY to get better as a person, and instead, he gets rewarded and pittied enough and gets a happy ending, and the narrative calls that a redemption. That is NOT how a redemption arc works, and that's why he is terrible and the worst character of the series by far. Robbie NEVER deserved a redemption because he NEVER made the effort to get it by correcting himself, not in the entire series.
Then you gonna love Milky Boy Blue's and CodyLabs's fics for having Robbie meeting his comeuppance
He’s the most normal of the antagonists in the show because as pointed out, everyone has a Robbie in their lives. The person who bullies because he’s insecure. Pacifica does embody the mean girl, at least before season two fleshes her out as a person by making her parents more actively malicious through their elitism.
@@jbcatz5 oh I did have a Robbie and I certainly didn't need to summon a video game character to beat him up😡
Lol, reading this i realized that robbie is jerry if people took him seriously.
@@kaneconqueror6560 bah Jerry is far better than him,at least he cares for his family(minus Rick but he is a genocidal asshole)
According to Alex Hirsch Robbie didn’t know about the message and Wendy wasn’t mind controlled dipper just looked to deeply into it
I think that Robbie sucks and I can't stand him too. That being said, I hope and believe that he was written as a cautionary tale. That if you are obsessed with someone and they dont feel the same, move onto someone who reciprocates your feelings. As Dipper said "you can't force someone to love you." I think both Robbie and Dipper had to learn this. But Robbie only learned this through a force love potion sooooo.... 🤷♀️
But you bring up the most important point which is the dubious circumstances of his relationships. If you use some type of substance whether it be roofies or even "just" alcohol, it is wrong and should never be rewarded. I never felt like Robbie learned that what he did was wrong. And I don't think turning around and doing it to his character was in good taste either. Just continuing the cycle and not stopping it, you know?
Love these Gravity Falls deep dives! Keep it up!
And if you have time, check out this podcast: Mystery Shack Look Back. I think you will really enjoy it!
To me the attraction of gravity falls is the same as Cheers. You can point to almost any character in the show and know a real life counter part. To me idc either way if Robbie gets “redemption” or not. We all know a Robbie and we all know a Mabel or Dipper. The reason why this show worked so well was that despite all of its quirkiness and humor, it was relatable to a wide audience. As much as I hated some of Mabel’s decisions I understood them because I grew up with people that were very much like her. So to me as much as I was annoyed by the things they did it made for a better story than if she had done the things everyone wanted her to do.
I hate when a character is presented as a toxic dump fire just to be totally inoffensive one episode later, without any struggle to redeem itself.
I just wanna point out that according to the creator of the show on the collectors dvd commentary Robbie didn't try to control Wendy, that song was one he ripped off from a metal band (as the ep mentioned) and THEY put that whole deal on in the song, he didn't know. There's also the fact Alex said backward massages can't control someone, even in gravity falls. He mentioned it was their fault for not making that clear.
It is sad how many don't understand the case like you
But do we have to rely on his word alone as the canon explanation instead of seeing the episode because I could just use "Death of the Author" to invalidate his explanation and headcanon that Robbie did mind control Wendy for his own pleasure.
9:07 it was kinda smooth how he threw his smartphone away
Can we also talk about how Boyz Crazy and The Love God episodes are another example of the double standards and favouritism the writers play with Mabel? In Boyz Crazy, Dipper gets framed as the bad guy for trying to rescue Wendy from being mind controlled because, in the writers' eyes, "he got in the way of a relationship and ruined it", but then Mabel in The Love God not only does she get into other people's relationships and business (what Dipper was accused of), she goes and mind controlls people to force them into love against their wills (the same thing Robbie did), but instead of getting called out, the episode ends with "Oh nevermind, they are happy even if it's fake, what you did was the right thing all along, don't change it" and gets away with it scott free. They litterally punish Dipper for stuff that they reward or allow Mabel to get away scott free with. It's such a double standard and playing favourites.
It is not your fault that she was written the way you dislike
@@duduamrosh It's not that I dislike how she was writen, it's that she was writen badly. A protagonist needs to go through character arc, that's basic in storytelling.
@@dracoangelrojo I mean you have the full right to critrize her character and do you think Alex expect those critisms?
@@duduamrosh He didn't expect them, otherwise he would have writen the show differently and wouldn't have dedicated a full story to finish Mabel's arc and correct her.
@@dracoangelrojo Some people doesn't like to read some criticism about her character,
And if they don't want to, that is fine they simply don't read them, nobody forces them, people just discuss about issues, am I right?
I think the idea of the love potion is that using it is already bad, but trying to fix it with another potion would just make it worse. It’s like solving the problem the same way it was caused, which sounds like it’ll lead to a bigger problem than not. I think the lesson Mabel has to learn is about not always having to “undo” mistakes and just trying to move on and make the best of a current situation, because sometimes a problem might be better off fixing itself.
As for Robbie, I don’t think he was designed to be all that complex, or at least they probably didn’t have much time to make him that way. For that reason, I think his character progression is simply moving on from Wendy, and acknowledging that moving on will ultimately be the best move for him going forward. And while he was set up with the potion to be with someone else, he ultimately ends up moving on and becomes happier because of it
Tom actually had a character arc in the right direction, where Robbie either stayed the same, or got worse. I agree with all points in this video. Tom is much more likable than Robbie by at least some percentage.
Not only does the ending of "Love God" contradict "Boys Crazy" but also "Into the Bunker"
Mabel learns that she shouldn't intervene in relations as she can cause harm and then a few episodes later doubles down by drugging people
She is evolving, just backwards
They actually fell in love after the potion were off, they could have left each other.
Who did she drug after the love God episode?
I'm referring to Robbie and Tambry
And the creators didn't intend the potion to have a time Limit or else they would have put it in the Episode. Journal 3 just contains that to justify it
@@breaderikthegreat3224 What is wrong of justifying it?
It was something missing in the show and they put it.
Similar to how most people think that Mabel lacks development (I don't agree that she has no character development in the show itself) and Hirsch put it in the comic to fill the holes that have been missing but yet people are still not satisfied.
And Mabel evolved to the better not backwards.
She is not a bad sister, got it?
(Did you like my reply?)
He's an angsty kid who doesn't know how to be himself without putting on a persona to impress others. If being a stupid teenager were such a crime as to never be worthy of redemption into someone's adult life then I think there is something wrong with that analysis.
Love potions as a date rape drug comes up in Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, where Merope Gaunt had a relationship with Tom Riddle Senior that from his end was entirely love potion. When she decides he may now have genuine feelings and she can stop dosing him, he leaves her and their unborn baby, the baby she doesn’t live to raise but only to leave at an orphanage. Said baby turns out to be Voldemort.
Should’ve kept using it honestly
Merope Gaunt can be rearranged to "grope me aunt" or "aunt grope me". Don't know why that's relevant but just a weird thing I noticed.
Desiree Loveros She stopped using it because she didn’t want the love to come from a bottle, but from his heart. The problem was the relationship was built on false foundations and the sudden end proved that. If you realised someone had drugged you over a period of time to make you think you loved them, made you abandon your life to be with them had raped you into giving them a child, you’d want nothing more to do with them.
@@ShizuruNakatsu why must you tell me this useless yet traumatizing information.
@@thebaconguy1661 I had no real reason, other than the whole "I am Lord Voldemort" anagram thing. Who knows if it was intentional, but I couldn't help noticing.
Robbie is jusy like draco malfoy: someone that did terrible things during all the series, but the fandom forgive them just because they are an good looking emo white boy, ignoring the fact that they did almost nothing to deserve to be forgiven
Draco had terrible parents, so I kinda excused him. Especially when he was shown unable to kill dumbledore. Robby has nice parents but still turned out to be an asshole
@@exodustimes4266 An character having understandable motivations is different from being forgivable. Draco has motivations to be an bad person, but he never tried to change. Prople forget that most of the time.
Robbie's not good looking, lol. He looks like Patrick Hockstetter.
The fandom didn't forgive him, they just never gave him much thought at all, Robbie that is.
Also emo yes, good looking no, they specifically gave him all the unattractive teenager characteristics in his design.
When the worst episode includes excusing mabels actions again -.-
That's what I hate episodes that do that onto Mabel, it's like the show's trying to get you to not hate her for it just cuz she's hurrdurr the best likable character ever. Yeaaaaaah no, sorry writers. That ain't how you do it right.
Mabel siding with Dipper's bully because of her own relationship insecurities :)
Something I think woulda been cool so the writers could have their cake and eat it too; if the love potion wasn’t permanent.
the potion wears off at some point off screen, but Robbie and Tambry still hit it off. So in reality, the love potion acts as a kinda ‘nudge in the right direction’ so to speak, and the couple can find out not long later if it was real or no
NOT GREAT BUT LIKE
Edit right after I finished the vid:
Ah. That was the case apparently. Still could communicated it
Gotta correct you on the bit about Robbie's song. Alex Hirsch has confirmed that Robbie knew nothing about the subliminal message. It was purely a coincidence that Dipper found one. The only thing Robbie did wrong was lie about having written and recorded the song himself, and that lie was what upset Wendy. Admittedly these details weren't conveyed very clearly, but the writer's intention was that Robbie never meant to hypnotize Wendy.
Yeah, that's true, but still, the way they wrote the show contradicts the idea, which results in the death of the author where the content of the story matters more than what they intended. The words of the writers and Alex say that it wasn't on purpose, but the way they wrote it and showed it...definitely says otherwise.
Yeah when Robbie said 'I hope this works' I assumed Wendy liking song enough to get him back. But everything else was framed as if he knew this.
even if the love god episode isn't that great it still has lots of funny jokes that makes it worth watching, that's what i love about Gravity Falls
I’ve only seen some gravity falls and I’ve never watched Rick and Morty.
I can imagine though that a young kid would feel very uncomfortable with woman jumping all over him. Though he asked for the potion. It’s interesting that that would be an episode of a show.
So true. Not every awful character deserves redemption. Like take tsunderes from harem animes for example, tsunderes like Naru (Love Hina), Chitoge (Nisekoi), Kaori (Your Lie in April), Louise (Familiar of Zero) and Kirie (Girls Bravo) spent most of the series beating up the main MC for the stupidest reasons, yet we're supposed to see them as the good guys despite they're abuse. Then they try to paint them as saints who just have *air quotes* problems and only act that way because they feel *air quotes* sad and lonely. Ugh. Worse, they try to make them better near the end of the series like Chitoge showing a sweeter side for no reason, Kaori apologizing in a letter or Kirie stopping her abuse on Yukinari just suddenly, THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS YOU IDIOTS!!! Bottom line, even if they said "I'm sorry", I would never ever EVER forgive them and say "F**k off! You don't deserve redemption!".
Alex Hirsch said that the backwards message in the record was meant as a reflection of Robbie's ignorance and lack of musical talent and Dipper's vain pursuit of making Robbie look bad, without considering Wendy's feelings. He also didn't read too deeply into any *implications* because subliminal messages don't really work and he used that plot point as a goof.
SO fun fact graveywards were actually initially intended to be a public space for people to spend time with dead loved ones
Ok wow, I didn’t know this :O
wow, that's so sad and so heartwarming at the same time
This is normal in Catholic countries where people set up pinics, watch TV and stuff
Its basically a public park/camping spot with dead people
@@AureliusLaurentius1099 interesting
Another classic solution to the love portion trope would be for Mabel to use the antidote but Robbie and Tambri stay together anyway because it turns out that they actually do like each other.
I think that's just the point of Robbie's character, to be a sociopath and cause conflict in the story
Ok, I really don't think we should trust the sugar charged sweater kid on fashion tips.
Fingerless gloves rules! End of discussion.
Totally
Could not say it better
would have been better if the episode ended with them reversing the love potion, robbie finding out and getting angry only to realize he did the same thing to wendy. that would be the start of an actual redemption, because robbie has now realized what he did was wrong. he would still need another episode to make up for it though.
This is the first I’ve seen of this channel, but I can tell I’m gonna like it.
The BIG Detail people are missing is in the books
The love spell is just temporary
Robbie actually did change from his own and lived a better life
Love potions plots where always creepy. Like in Midsummer Night's Dream where Oberon never gave Demetrius the antidote to the love potion.
But then again, Demetrius would rather have Hermia executed than seeing her with Lysander.
Does that wall say Die Dipper Die?
Robbie: oh no no, it's German. The Dipper The
The Simpson reference was both a blast...and messed up for a 17 year old XD
this reminds me of how Mal from Descendants uses a love spell in the first movie and there are no consequences for her actions at all, plus she is even rewarded at the end which is horrible
Didn't her boyfriend call her out for it and didn't it ware off. And didn't she give up the magic book by the end of the second movie.
To be fair, Mal chooses to remove the spell on her own. Which is BIG for her since she's the daughter of a villain and has been raised to act as such.