Just getting rid of the expressway but keeping the railway would be the best option from my perspective. Circular Quay station as it is is quite an icon of Sydney, and if you think that you can easily just hsove it underground you have no idea how railways work. That vision of the station completely gone just looks soulless to me, it just looks like all of LendLeases new garbage you can see all the time. Plus, people will steel feel dwarfed by the skyscrapers anyways. Turning the expressway into a park? Go right ahead.
Fair point. It would still be very expensive, unfortunately, but it's certainly cheaper than getting rid of both. Undergrounding the railway would be immensely difficult.
@@BuildingBeautifully Heard EcoTransit Sydney say that the expressway could be turned into a bus interchange replacing the clogged system down at Wynyard. Honestly, it’s just adding a bus stop and not eliminating the problem, but I think turning it into proper BRT wouldn’t be bad, with roundabouts on either end for buses to turn around and head the other way.
Calling the Cahill Expressway redundant is short-sighted in my opinion. I believe it still serves an important purpose as it links parts of Sydney City and North Sydney more conveniently than the harbor tunnel. It gives access to those traveling from the south to be able to access North Sydney via the Pacific Highway offramp, as opposed to having to pass North Sydney to then have to travel south again, which using the tunnel forces you to do. It also gives access to those who wish to use the Ernest St exit, which isn't accessible from the tunnel. It gives those traveling from the north easy vehicle access to attractions in the northeast of the CBD without adding to the already congested CBD (Opera House, Circular Quay, Sydney Conservatorium of Music).
As a tourist with mobility needs, I'm happy with the status quo. I love getting off the trains and enjoying the high platform views. I've never really noticed the hidden car traffic above. And the bonus of a short walk between Train and Light Rail adds to a round trip experience.
Agreed, my wife and I are avid Ferry riders and come from Parramatta by train and I would hate to see train station moved. Never notice the Cahill Expressway, because you are underneath it. Which highlights a flaw in Clover Moores plan, shelter from the elements. Seems to be a bit of an Elitists problem to me, they see it from their ivory towers above and it spoils their million dollar view, while the rest of us never notice it.
I can't see any problem with it...can't they clean it and beautify it. I too like looking through the train windows at the harbour bridge etc as the train I am on arrives Circular Quay. Who were the idiots in Sydney started this bee in the bonnet about the Cahill Expressway? If I am in Sydney, I get on at the nearest train station to my brother's home, and travel to the city from the Campbelltown area. It's my usual pilgrimage to get on the real ferries, the Freshwaters, and travel to Manly. Arriving at the Cahill Expressway is the beginning of that journey for me.
One thing that many people don't realise is that expressly also acts as a windbreak. The wind coming off the harbour could, I'm told make walking up George and Macquarie streets difficult in even light winds. Ask any Sydneysider of the 1950s. My Dad and Grandparents used to tell me how bad it was.
The only way to update it would be to turn it into a powered walkway like under the domain... then drivers would hit this travelvator at 60 then slingshot out of it at 400km/h like a tesla rocket getting to the f1 in a couple of minutes flying past and landing on the bridge where the windsock is . Since the engine is heavy and the car will be pointing down the slope will be a perfect and safe way to de accelerate the flying missiles
Personally, while Clover Moore’s plan would be nice, and it would be great to see the whole area opened up, i think turning the expressway into a NYC ‘Highline’ style elevated greenway is far better. Not only is it much cheaper, it doesn’t have to be an eyesore. The success of the Highline is proof of this. It could serve as a great revitalisation of Circular Quay, the current NSW governments proposal seems to be leaning towards this. Perhaps eventually the remaining two lanes could be transformed into a pedestrian zone too.
Instead of 2 traffic lanes on the Cahill, why not restore the old tram lanes on the harbour bridge for light rail or (electric) BRT, they would then turn onto the Cahill and then onto Macquarie Street.
Interesting idea. The northern end of the route would need to be investigated (I assume it would have to run into North Sydney CBD). The current Mount St ramp may be too steep a grade for light rail, and reinstating the original viaduct across to Blue St may no longer be feasible due to needing clearance for trucks and buses on the Bradfield Hwy. Building a new viaduct to Blue St or the Pacific Hwy on a different alignment (closer to High St?) may be possible.
Great idea. Returning Cahill to rapid transit (clean BRT not tram) is the most efficient option. Best to have souhbound BRT and full width cycle routes on east side of bridge with northbound BRT in lane 1. The existing cycle route is beyond capacity and won't be able to deal with the quadrupling of use when they build the ramp at Milson's Point. Pedestrians would love to have the west side path back. Restoring the original tram viaduct works, it was plenty high enough at rail level linking to the old tram/train concourse still there southeast of North Sydney station.
@@charlielloyd1080 Interesting... why have the BRT running against the traffic? Taking lanes 7 and 8 for BRT would mean an easy turn to/from the Cahill without the need for the corkscrew.
It is only hated by a loud minority. The view you get on the train has you arrive at Circular Quay station is the best view in the country. It is being pushed by developers or building owners who want a reason to raise there rental prices. The expressway is for the people and provides transport for us. Road, Rail and walking. The real eyesore is the apartment buildings on the eastern side of the Quay.
The best way to open up the area is to get rid of a bunch of the shops and restaurants underneath the Cahill (do we really need a Hungry Jacks) which seems to be part of the Perrotet plan. As for demolishing the Cahill - the Harbour Tunnel is not a replacement for the Cahill. It doesn't provide any access to the city unless you turn around in Wollomooloo which is already choked. To provide some access to/from the East of the City (lots of existing carparks under the Opera House, GPT, Chifley etc) you'd have to create a massive interchange near the Conservatorium/ State Library, which would probably be just as much a disaster and eyesore on the Eastern side of the city and block substantial amounts of pedestrian access to the Domain. And undergrounding the train line would be massively expensive with the grades involved and need to construct a new station below water level in what is mostly reclaimed land anyway.
@@HenryMidfields The Cahill Expressway was originally intended to link the Harbour Bridge to the eastern side of the CBD (the ramps near the Conservatorium of Music are a remnant of that) and to the Eastern Distributor (the original plan for the ED was above-ground and would have cut a path from the Domain to Moore Park, roughly through the middle of Taylor Square). When that plan was shelved, it ended up just dumping traffic into Woolloomooloo and Darlinghurst.
You are correct on this solution might be shutting down the expressway turning it into a high line while modifying the Circular Quay Railway Station to have lifts to the new Highline which was originally the Cahill Expressway
Southbound drivers can choose the bridge for City & West or tunnel for City South & East. The Cahill expressway has little purpose, maybe keep one slowed down lane serving northbound traffic to Milson's point and Kirribilli.
@@charlielloyd1080 But as above there is no exit from the tunnel to City East.. you have to do a wacky turn around Woolloomooloo that couldn't handle any more traffic
Love your vids - new Sydney subscriber here! I dont mind Circular Quay's sea wall design, its a statement from the time it was made. As much as Cahill is an eyesore I imagine that it takes strain off of the tunnel beneath the harbour to some extent. Looking forward to more videos!
It’s a necessary piece of infrastructure. We need the road and we need the railway. It’s needed unlike what the host claims. If we are to replace it then we would need a new road underground plus a new railway. I agree it’s a marvelous view from the expressway.
I am in the tiny minority that want Cahill Exp to be kept. The Harbour Tunnel is insufficient by itself for traffic flow into the city itself from the tunnel. I'd bet most drive on Cahill Exp after picking up friends and family from the airport on their way to North of the Harbour. Why? It's the best way to show the Sydney Harbour without getting out of the car. Passengers could see a lot in the short minute on it. I have one suggestion. Keep the Cahill Exp as it is for traffic. But widen the pedestrian walkway over the Circular Quay. Then some kind of landscape design on the hanging side of the widened walkway. This would cover up the ugly side of Cahill Exp and at the same time keep the traffic flow plus have a 'greenway' space for pedestrians. If widen out of the walkway isn't practical, reducing the traffic lanes to 2 or 3 lanes only is a good alternative. Take one lane as part of the Greenway. I like Cahill Exp myself.
You may not be the minority! I've had a lot of comments saying it should be kept. I guess the "universally hated" part of my thumbnail needs changing 🤭
@@jack2453 Spoken like someone who doesn't live in the city. Those of us who live in the city are forever having to deal with decisions made by leaders who live in the suburbs. I t seems it is easy to make grand plans for their convenience as if the city is just a place to visit. Those of us who live here are never consulted about what we need.
@@artistjoh It's quite the oposite. City dwellers generally are prepared to walk cycle and take public transport. It's the suburbites who insist on enormous roads gouging through the city to indulge their car enabled laziness.
@@jack2453 As I said in previous comment, we use public transport more than the average, but we still need to drive. Or are you suggesting we have less rights than those in the suburbs?
I agree. In the scale of ugliness is not that bad. And what would it reveal. High rise office towers and shops? It’s not like there’s a massive park or mountain it’s covering up.
@@xr6lad all it needs is a laser show at night like during vivid .. did you see how be beautiful it can be? During the day still have the lasers but get the tolls back on with a twist.. they start at the northern entry and give back a pair of shades which make everything dark so you can see the lasers
It is typical late 1940s public works architecture although it opened in 1956. The piers it sits on were there in 1936, sans the cement rendering and so were the railway tunnel approaches that were built using 1920s tunnelling techniques so the intention was always there to build something very close to what we see today. To move it would require a lowering of the railway approaches at the east and west ends and by using a coffer dam, pre-stressed concrete box sections like those used during the construction of the Sydney Harbour Tunnel would have to be lowered into position directly underneath, and in line with the current rail alignment, although the approaching grades would be quite steep. (Remember the problem with grades experienced by trains on the Macquarie Rail Link tunnels under the Lane Cove River before conversion to Metro.) Concrete from the existing tunnel approaches at Circular Quay would need to be broken up and recycled. I admire the imagination of the supporters of this proposal but is it really worth the effort?
WHO SAYS THIS ROAD IS UNIVERSALLY HATED!? I like the road. I think Sydney should have MORE roads that enable a view over the city and water views. In FACT I was only taking overseas visitors into the city the other day and they loved the view of the city from a very unusual vantage point, such as this one. This is the only road which has not been absolutely SPOILT by super high fences and wire railings !!! We have a very pretty city and this is one of the only roads that offer a fresh glimpse of it available from the perspective of your vehicle! Look at various roads in America that wind their way though and around their cities providing a glimpse of the buildings. There is nothing wrong with this road except for the fact that it is too small. A few extra lanes should/could be added. AND, from a ferry on water, it visibly SHOWS that Sydney is a bustling modern metropolis. That shows it is going somewhere. I will continue to VOTE to keep this iconic road.
Lol American highways are known around the world because of how bad they are. Using them as an example of a positive thing shows you haven’t done much research.
I get the Cahill is ugly and a lot of people want it gone, but I just don't see the benefits outweighing the costs. There are plenty of other projects that offer better value for money
Hi Sharrath, thanks for sharing another interesting video. As a young child, I remember seeing Circular Quay Station first opening and some years later, the Cahill Expressway opened. Not long after the opening, on one occasion, my dad and I actually walked the length of the Cahill Expressway from Circular Quay to the Harbour Bridge, via the tunnel along a very narrow footpath in between. It was only when we reached the Harbour Bridge end of the tunnel, we found a sign saying "No Pedestrians". Oops!!! We then had to walk all the way back through retracing our steps, as there was no way of exiting any other way. One thing that they could do is turn the Cahill Expressway slightly left at the Harbour Bridge end, which would reopen the area of the former tram tunnel. Then, if they decided to reuse the two eastern traffic lanes for light rail, they could run a light rail line directly between North Sydney CBD and Wynyard Station (Platforms 1 & 2). As far as Circular Quay Station is concerned, I think that could be left as is, as the trains have no problems there. Also, that would save a lot of money. Anyway, take care. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
We CAN afford to do it fully. Think of the extra tourism to that area transformed by splendid vision? No more grimy car fumes, pigeon poop and the rumbling of trains. To those who love the eyesore of the Circular Quay Railway viaduct, and its hideous piggy backer, the Cahill Expressway, I say "You can keep it, it's all yours". The damned thing is made of concrete, lead-fuel doused steel and stone fascia. You can have the lot and reconstruct it at your pleasure, rivet by rivet in a rural place of your choosing. Both the railway and the expressway will not be missed by any Sydneysider with more than an ounce of good taste. A great presentation, as always. Thanks kindly!
The Cahill Expressway is not universally hated. I am a local, and love it. The tunnel does not feed me into Macquarie Street as I need. Rather than just being a remnant of a forgotten era, it is a living part of today's living present. It is easy for those who do not live in the CBD to make it difficult for those of us who live here to be able to drive and get around. Public transport is important and those of us CBD dwellers use it more than other people, but we still need to drive. The open space ideal has already drained the life out of George Street. Architectural drawings of vibrant spaces do not always equate to a grand reality on the ground.
"The tunnel does not feed me into Macquarie Street". But an even worse disaster than the Cahill's destruction of Circular Quay was its less visible destruction of the Domain. Sydney lost a lot of its inner green belt and pedestrian walks.
lots of better things to spend money on than removing/decorating a road which bothers a few people as it "looks bad". The expressway also provides vital city access that the Tunnel doesn't. Circular quay station is excellent though, they definitely won't mess with that
Leave the Cahill expressway alone , its a part of Sydney's history , it does not look that bad but when one drives on it , it has a world class view. If you don't like looking at it , look where you are walking instead,
Covering it up is an alternative, and probably the cheapest. Get some clever Architects and Artists to design something and bingo, no more eyesore and maybe a another landmark/tourist attraction. Give me some money and I'll go down to Bunnings and buy a couple of hundred of those sail awning things, and I'll work something out and only charge them a tenth of that 216 mill, everybody wins !.
Throw in a sanga stall with some blokes from rotary give out snags and do a bit of work gets you sauce Every one chips in whether its a single pop rivet or 3d cad design taking weeks! Makes the job easier
It is one of the most scenic roads in Sydney and available to all, by car, by train o on foot. It is the last of the free pleasures our government thoughtfully provided.
The Carl Expressway is very useful when you travel from the North to CBD. I’m sure that won’t get rid of it. It will be there forever. I drive across it everyday.
Take a train 🚂 or a bus 🚌, I did shift work from the north shore into the city and up to Hornsby for years. No one needs to personally drive into the city.
@@nedt I do. Im a Tradie and like many other tradies I'm crossing the bridge and going across Carl expressway everyday to get to my sites. Yeah I can take the tunnel but the tolls alone would be a killer
Love this channel and the insights into Sydney and surrounds in regards to traffic and public transport. Please, please, please do a video on The Grand Parade in Brighton Le Sands and the F6 that is currently being built. I’d love to hear your thoughts.
The Cahill Expressway is a world class example of crass cityscape destroying infrastructure. But you have to have a sense of humour. The great joke from 1958 was dumping tons of concrete and steel across the front of the Royal Automobile Club, blocking their view from dining room to the harbour. See video at 7:00 minutes in. At the time it was the tallest building north of Bridge Street. When they pull down the expressway they should keep the bit in front of RACA building, dumping old cars and buses there just to keep the joke alive.
I used to hang around the CBD when I was young in the 60's and 70's. There used to be the best fish and chips across from CQ. They bulldozed the building along with the rest of the city, built glass towers and sucked all eh character out of the place. Now it's just a sterile slum. You want to tear down what little is left ? What next ? The rocks ? The few terraces left ? after all they are just old buildings, eyesores and impracticable. Lets knock it all down get rid of the ferry terminal, concrete the parks and have wall to wall chain fast food places. That'll be better...
Great video! One important think about the Cahill Expressway that this video and other people in the comments have missed out is the idea of "induced demand" and how it works in reverse, too. Getting rid of all cars from the Cahill Expressway, whether it's knocked down or not (although I'm personally hoping for knocking it down), would also get rid of traffic in the city by incentivising people to take the train or active transport instead, since it will be more difficult to get to the city by car. While drivers may initially see this as inconvenient, that's the whole point. As far as business, air quality, climate change, and car deaths are concerned, less cars in the city is definitely a good thing.
Thank you! 100% correct, many viewers are staunchly against the idea of removing the freeway, but the truth is alternate ways could be found by these drivers.
It would not cost $1 Billion but more likely $3 Billion. Paul Keating offered to remove it in 1988. We need "value capture" which is a new fee on all property holders whose property value increases due to better views. All transport upgrades require a "value capture" model.
Whilst the Cahill is a scar across the welcome mat to the CBD...it a necessary eyesore that serves its purpose...providing a relatively quicker form of access from Nth Sydnet to yhe CBD...if you use it regularly like I do, as do many others on a daily basis, you'll soon learn its value...albeit an ugly one. The alternative to redirect traffic into the north western CBD onto York St and its environs would just create more grid lock in an already busy and constrictive setting.......beautify it...narrow it to one lane in each direction...but I think the alternative to demolishing it is far worse...a case of the disease is worse than the cure scenario!!!! Another great video however...thanks again!!!!!
Reasons why the Cahill Expressway won't change at all for a very long time. 1 - Cost; Moving a major rail line underground would be a waste of money. 2 - Traffic Flow; removing or reducing the number of lanes on the expressway would cripple traffic flow in the already congested peak hour times to and from the northern suburbs. Plus to replace the Cahill with another tunnel would take years and even more money, which we don't have. 3 - The current Perrottet government won't survive the next election and anything he says about upgrading the Quay landscape is just Pie in the Sky dreaming. While the 'futuristic' plans for the Quay are beautiful, no government in their right mind would push on with changes knowing that they will lose a huge number of voters from the North Shore. The Perrottet government recently cancelled funding for the much needs upgrade to The Spit Bridge region one of the worst traffic congestion spots in all of Sydney. Then we have Clover Moore's idea for Sydney. Clover has been mayor since 2004. While The Rocks area has seen a new lease on life with outdoor dinning, the rest of Sydney city is virtually a ghost town by 6pm every night and very quite on weekends. We look at other major cities around the world London, NYC even Melbourne, all vibrant cities with lots of cafes, nightlife etc. Clover wants to spend money that she doesn't have on the Quay. Surely the money allocated to folly's like her cancelled, not quite an arch sculpture should be redirected into boosting the inner city's after hours entertainment venues such as restaurants and cafes. How does she manage to get re-elected?
All valid points, except that George St. isn't quiet on weekends and hasn't been for at least 20 years. In fact, it can be quite busy until as late as midnight or 1am on Friday and Saturday nights.
$1 billion over 10 years is $100m pa. Sounds a lot, but they could share the costs with the State Govt, and the income benefits included as an offset (economic activity from increased visitors, health & wellbeing reducing the strain on public health, and the uplift in nearby valuations and their effects on land tax revenue), plus remembering that the State Govt just spent $1B ie the same price on replacing a rarely full rectangular stadium which can't be used for oval-shaped sports. This would cost Council and State way less than $50m pa each.
The only thing that needs to change is the ground level to be hollowed out. The public access to a northern viewing platform would also be good. I disagree that it is an 'eyesore'. Being able to walk under the Cahill to a great view is fabulous. The view is framed, dramatised and 'captured'. If it was completely open it would be just a little ho-hum!
Agreed, it also provides shelter, unlike Clovers plan, which puts everyone at the mercy of the elements. Why not cover it up with some artsy, fartsy awnings and have even better weather protection and hide the expressway?
The only time I ever drive over the Cahill expressway is when I feel like taking the ‘scenic route’. If they decide to go from 4 lanes to 2 they would definitely need to drop the speed limit to 40km/h, otherwise it would definitely not be a pleasant place for a stroll
There may be sensitive types who are “suffocated” by the expressway/railway but perhaps we could supply them with VR goggles when they visit the area. There is no point in removing the expressway without removing the railway, and from everything I’ve ever read, connecting Wynyard to St James underground is virtually impossible owing to the grades. No one wants to break the City Circle loop, and no one wants to lose rail access to Circular Quay. Personally, I don’t mind the expressway/railway, and I certainly don’t want to spend a billion throwing more tinsel around the city. Just look at it, marvel at the Fritz Lang-esque interchange of road/rail/sea/walkway, and get on with your day. Perhaps replace any of the hideous fast food shops with an emergency clinic for any passers-by still suffering from suffocation.
Agreed, I bet a lot of other Counties around the world would like have the 'problem' of an eyesore expressway not accessorizing their sea/rail/road hub perfectly. I never gave the Cahill Expressway a thought until talk of it as an eyesore was brought up, then I realized that is because I'm only ever underneath it, unlike those that look down upon it, and us perhaps.
Why even go of they need VR, just use VR all the time leave real life for people who have retired and want to enjoy some peace of old times .. like actually restore the place to an older feel Or maybe im thinking the wrong way around give the older generation a way to relive the older times and leave the young kids to run amock in the cit- no wait first time was better
I disagree with you on this one. I've walked along viaducts that have been turned into parks in New York and Paris, and they're quite lovely. And Sydney is actually really good at making viaducts pretty; look at the Western Distributor over Wynyard, or the eastern approaches to the Anzac Bridge for examples. I think putting trees on the Cahill will make it not an eyesore. Also, it's not completely useless infrastructure; Kirribilli, Milsons Point and Greenwich are major residential suburbs, and their residents have legitimate need to access the M1 southbound. Pushing them back to Falcon Street or the A8 would create real local problems. The public transport options available to them are fantastic for getting into the City, but poor for getting further. Maybe when Victoria Cross Station gets finished, local bus lines will connect to that, but right now, those buses, like the ferries, don't go anywhere beyond Circular Quay… which is rather ironic, given the topic of this video. 🙂
Drove that on Wed 01 Mar 23, done so since 1980, quick exit from the city to the bridge. Rumour has it that a US "big wig" visiting Sydney in 1957, said, "Oh boy, I am so glad you are pulling that thing down, it looks so awful". With the trains, I am due to retire soon, but the world's best sight, never tire of it, is to look out and view the bridge and Opera House from CQ Station - need to keep that :).
I could not possibly agree with you less. The entire viaduct completes the view of passengers coming into circular quay. Like Sydney is wearing a bow tie. And keep the ferries too. Clover Moore wrecks everything she touches, like Kings Cross and Oxford Street
Excellent video, as always. Other thing we need to do is move the cruise ships and dismantle the OPT. I know they make us a lot of money and it's convenient for the passengers, but then, during summer we just have to put up with a floating skyscraper blocking the views most of the day every day? Oh, and also get rid of the toasters. I cannot believe that was ever allowed to happen.
I understand well the intent of taking back the land from cars...and I am all for it...however: -What will the alternatives be for drivers who lose this vital roadway and where will they be placed? -Will there be an alternative route for people coming from South Dowling if they want to use the bridge without getting off the main roads? -Will the tunnel suffice as an alternative route for the potential extra traffic?
Clover also wanted to demolish all the building's between town hall and Hyde Park, reduce oxford st to one lane of traffic each way, seperate the city of Sydney into 7 self sustainable village's by 2030 and lost $50ish on a giant milk crate sculpture that never happened. And the no Christmas decorations thing. The woman is batshit crazy. As for the place holder premier's plan... Meh. Just leave things alone. No tourist is not visiting Sydney because of the Cahill expressway.
Yeah nah the milkcrate thingy did happen but what happens a lot of times when you assign tradesman and there's access to milkcrates.... you preety much gave them the equivalent of free office chairs *sucks teeth So yeah nah
A lot of money and creative energy was spent revitalising and unifying the CQ in the 1980s for the bicentenerary. The results were pretty good - but srate governments and the city council since then have not maintained it. Civic infrastructure is not 'build and forget'.
One element, always overlooked by city planners and expsecaily Clover moore, in the access for service vehicles. Ive worked at cafe sydney as contractor and its always been nightmare to access the building for service, delivery and equipment supplies for live events.. The city is nothing without live events, but contractors afre often left parking on footpaths and copping tickets left right and centre. Since the tramns went in its made access in that are even harder, remove even more acces ??? are you kidding., The problem with architects is they only think about the form...rows of concrete and glass . They never give thjought to the people that actually have to keep them working fo the enxt 50 yrs, clean them and supply them with goods and equipment so they can trade... And literally every building in Shitney is like this. A nightmare... Also if you have a vehicle over 1.8m in height your boned to park anywhere, becuase apperntly, according to city planners, vans dont exist.
I think we should add 12 more lanes to the Cahill Expressway and turn the old railway into a second 14 lane expressway to solve the traffic problem. To ensure that livability is maximised, the entire dual storey bridge apparatus will be clad in two massive 50m tall and 3m thick concrete walls to eliminate noise pollution
Could just put up some jersey barriers and close off to traffic until they can afford to demolish the expressway. I'm not from Sydney, but sounds like the expressway doesn't have much of a purpose anymore.
Granted a have driven over the cahill expressway maybe twice in 44 years but i will never forget the sight as a child or as an adult of the train emerging out of the tunnel and arriving at circular quay. Trains have to stay
I take your point. Scarce funds should go to building infrastructure, not tearing it down, especially a major railway station like Circular Quay. Mr Perrottet's plan sounds like a reasonable compromise.
Very much over simplified. Being someone who rely on the road because there is no access to the tunnel from Milsons Point without a significant detour and significant additional time on to my journey. There is a fair number of suburbs on the north side of the harbour in the same situation. While I agree in principle with trying to beautify Circular Quay, I don't agree this should be done without consideration to the thousands of motorists that use the road daily. I'm thankful that it's a state road and not a council road and the incumbent Mayor can't just do what she wants to do without consideration
Undergrounding the railway is ridiculous; would make needed grades for connections with Wynyard and St James stations impossible. Remove the top deck and the catenary wires and their supports would be exposed and create a far worse eyesore - I notice Clover has had the wires air brushed out of the artists impression. Make it light rail and a cycleway (North Sydney into East Sydney) to keep sensitive souls in a safe place. Apart from that do nothing there and do something beautiful in Western Sydney for a change.
I disagree that putting in plazas is the answer to everything. What you're left with are flat spaces surrounded by glass. I'm cool with getting rid of the Cahill, but the railway adds texture, and intrigue, something to differentiate it the area from somewhere like Darling Harbour or Barangaroo. We don't need to see the CBD from the water...we get that reveal when we walk under the railway, like a garden arbour. We just need to make the passages as wide and attractive as possible. Also, guaranteed at least a third of the proposed plaza would be developed for luxury residential to pay for it all.
Seeing the view from Circular Quay station from the train as it was pulling into the station on my very first day in Sydney is still one of my fondest memories. This is partially why I don't hate Cahill Expressway as much as others do, at least when it comes to the train station. That said, I think Sydney should just bite the bullet and spend the money to tear it down. As you said, the Harbour Tunnel does the same thing the expressway does. The train line would be more difficult though, it's my understanding the grade from Wynyard to Circular Quay would be too steep to be underground.
There is a better solution turn the expressway into the Sydney version of New York City High Line that way you keep the Railway Line undneath the expressway
The upgrade proposal is logical. What about a green canopy if you must keep two remaining lanes only open on the southern side? Two lanes only for cars and a greenspace vibrant walkway for pedestrians from the Botanic Gardens to the Rocks. It becomes a green space viewing platform with outdoor cafes. An amazing viewing platform and gathering place with amazing harbour views. The railway station is iconic to step out to such a magnificent panorama. I goes well with the design of the harbour bridge. It is needed for times when there are incidents in the tunnel. The second harbour tunnel makes this a timely option.
The problem is that if they close the Cahill Expressway, it will only lead to more traffic in the harbour tunnel and nowhere for cars to go in the event that the harbour tunnel is closed
I think the best idea first would be to find other public transport options into the city so the Cahill express way can become redundant through better public transport and another tunnel parallel to the existing one then the Cahill express way can be transformed without to much disruption to travelling throught the city
On the fence with this one. I think it can be kept but spruced up to make it look good. 2 lanes noth and south in the harbour tunnel is already choked imagine what removing the cahill would do to current traffic. Only way into North Sydney from East Sydney unless you take cross city tunnel all the way to Harbour St then north onto the Bradfield. The alternate is to take the harbour tunnel and exit at Crows nest then cut back to North Sydney.
@@gdawwg1125 where they want to stick the station can still flood no matter what technology we have look what happened to the tunnels near St James station
Governments can never not afford things. They can borrow money or raise taxes, or reduce other spending, to pay for anything they want to pay for. This is a nationally important project in our largest city and largest tourist attraction.
I've listened to people (usually associated with the City Council or architectural firms) whinging about the Cahill Expressway for years. Personally I no trouble driving over it, taking the trains under it or walking beneath it to get to the ferries. It's a utilitarian structure that does what it was designed to do pretty well IMHO. Given that vast amounts of money has already been invested in the submarine road tunnel, I suppose the Cahill could potentially be removed and I guess we'll all happily move the traffic it moved from the Harbour Bridge to the tunnel. What could possibly go wrong? Plans to move Circular Quay station underground verge on madness IMHO. Sydney is already spending a fortune building metros every which way (even to convert a perfectly functional train line from Sydenham to Bankstown to a metro - which may be about to fall victim to cost overruns) and I feel moving a perfectly functional railway underground while removing the ferry wharves to ... where? ... will achieve little at humongous expense. Architects and sight lines be damned. Leave the thing alone and use all that money productively somewhere else.
all suggestions sound really nice but due to the age of both bridges i would think they come under a heritage listing (but that means nothing to higher powers). due to said point of its age i would think of upgrading, modernisation or improving the structure. integration with nature or shops or even the terminals for the quay itself since they do share the foundations. removal of the bridges would also bring forth the logical nightmare to the city during the construction/ demolition. since the bridge brings such importance to the transport of sydney, i can only suggest improving before removing i.e. improve surrounding traffic on the harbour tunnel to make the express way less appealing.
I can see the merit in removing the road, but leaving the station - it would reduce it's "eyesoreness" (not eliminate, but reduce), return some of the open air vibe, and return Sydney to an earlier vision. All of the roadways on the north side of the harbour bridge could be greatly simplified - that area of the road is a nightmare to navigate. The road lanes on the harbour bridge could be kept to avoid needing reversible lanes, OR maybe even the eastmost lanes on the bridge could be returned to their tram history along with restoring Platforms 1+2 at Wynyard) by turning them back into light rail. I think there's merit to keeping the trains, as 1) The area was always envisioned to be a major interchange (Trains meet Ferries), and 2) Without it, the entire city circle loop and the stations like St James and Museum (Which are beautiful stations that should be kept in their own right) would become useless. Unless they were incorporated into the Bondi line as was originally planned (Doubt that would happen now). Honestly, turning it into a green / pedestrian space would just .. I think it would be the worst of both worlds.
I think the motorway should be removed but the railway kept; it's not feasible to put it underground and it would be possible to make the elevated railway look much better if there wasn't a wide road layer on top of it. Though, removing the motorway would be a huge disruption to City Circle train services, and would probably require the line to be closed for months. It would be ideal if this was done at the same time as other major works on the City Circle, such as widening the platforms at Town Hall.
The solution might be destroying the upper deck which is the expressway then put a park on top of it Because the actual viaduct carries a Railway line the City Circle missing link and Circular Quay Railway station all were built in 1956
I don't know much about Sydney's transport needs or construction costs, but the cost of the "Greenway" option seems incongruous with it's benefits by comparison to the state government option. Perhaps "do nothing" really is the best option here, until better economic times roll around again.
All well and could to say get ride of the cahill expressway but the problem with that where does the traffic go because every second week the the harbour tunnel's are closed of a night for maintenance and cleaning and traffic is diverted across the cahill expressway to the harbour bridge its a key link so maintenance and cleaning can be carried out on the bridge and tunnels
Removing the motorway is easy, but removing the railway line is almost impossible. The grades from Wynyard and St James are way too steep for an underground station at Circular Quay. I suspect the railway station would have to stay, otherwise you’d just destroy the city circle.
As much as I detest the current NSW Government's... govournance, the Greenway solution is somehow an fascinating compromise, and what I would suggest as a 50/50 form - function split. I do love driving the existing expressway, especially the loon-on ramp for the Harbour Bridge Northbound.... I also like how it's a barrier to the main city. It's very dated, but I hate the notion of ripping things down. Build them back up, and better than ever. $216m seemed to include building the piers, which is a totally unecessary blowout - they would. I hope the incoming governmnet has a good idea for the Cahill.
Folks want to make the real world look like an artist's impression. The thing is, artist's impressions are all bogus. You're not going to get huge numbers of people walking in every direction if there's nowhere for them to go, such as a railway station.
The Cahill Expressway was a disaster in cutting the city completely off from the sea. Its not just the look and function of Circular Quay itself but the loss of vistas from many parts of both the city and North Sydney. But the disaster is and was undoubtedly made worse by the hidous concrete and steel bridge. A cheap way to make things a bit better is cladding and sound barriers - it beats me why that was not done decades ago.
Should be kept. Cahill is a great way to venture east of the city and to see the Bridge and Opera House. When you walk around the Quay you are too focused on the beautiful harbour, man made icons and on all the tourists and locals making their way around.
The solution is to break up the city circle railway and extend the lines across the harbour, one north the the northern beaches and the second to the north west along Victoria Road. This would be far cheaper than building new metro lines through the CBD and provide an opportunity to build a new Circular Quay station. The railway lane would save $Billions in car use, congestion, pollution, roads, buses, etc. and promote more sustainable urban development along the rail corridors.
Just getting rid of the expressway but keeping the railway would be the best option from my perspective. Circular Quay station as it is is quite an icon of Sydney, and if you think that you can easily just hsove it underground you have no idea how railways work. That vision of the station completely gone just looks soulless to me, it just looks like all of LendLeases new garbage you can see all the time. Plus, people will steel feel dwarfed by the skyscrapers anyways. Turning the expressway into a park? Go right ahead.
Precisely. I believe the grades between Circular Quay and Wynyard are quite steep already - and undergrounding the railway would just make it worse.
Fair point. It would still be very expensive, unfortunately, but it's certainly cheaper than getting rid of both. Undergrounding the railway would be immensely difficult.
@@BuildingBeautifully Heard EcoTransit Sydney say that the expressway could be turned into a bus interchange replacing the clogged system down at Wynyard. Honestly, it’s just adding a bus stop and not eliminating the problem, but I think turning it into proper BRT wouldn’t be bad, with roundabouts on either end for buses to turn around and head the other way.
Hmm not a bad idea actually…we could conduct Perrottet’s proposal of narrowing the expressway, but instead use the two remaining lanes as BRT.
While I want to disagree, I can’t. You are 100% correct.
However I will mention that the tunnel is already dug between st James and CQ
Calling the Cahill Expressway redundant is short-sighted in my opinion. I believe it still serves an important purpose as it links parts of Sydney City and North Sydney more conveniently than the harbor tunnel. It gives access to those traveling from the south to be able to access North Sydney via the Pacific Highway offramp, as opposed to having to pass North Sydney to then have to travel south again, which using the tunnel forces you to do. It also gives access to those who wish to use the Ernest St exit, which isn't accessible from the tunnel. It gives those traveling from the north easy vehicle access to attractions in the northeast of the CBD without adding to the already congested CBD (Opera House, Circular Quay, Sydney Conservatorium of Music).
As a tourist with mobility needs, I'm happy with the status quo. I love getting off the trains and enjoying the high platform views. I've never really noticed the hidden car traffic above. And the bonus of a short walk between Train and Light Rail adds to a round trip experience.
Agreed, my wife and I are avid Ferry riders and come from Parramatta by train and I would hate to see train station moved.
Never notice the Cahill Expressway, because you are underneath it.
Which highlights a flaw in Clover Moores plan, shelter from the elements.
Seems to be a bit of an Elitists problem to me, they see it from their ivory towers above and it spoils their million dollar view, while the rest of us never notice it.
I can't see any problem with it...can't they clean it and beautify it. I too like looking through the train windows at the harbour bridge etc as the train I am on arrives Circular Quay. Who were the idiots in Sydney started this bee in the bonnet about the Cahill Expressway?
If I am in Sydney, I get on at the nearest train station to my brother's home, and travel to the city from the Campbelltown area. It's my usual pilgrimage to get on the real ferries, the Freshwaters, and travel to Manly. Arriving at the Cahill Expressway is the beginning of that journey for me.
Agreed, the Train-o must remain.
One thing that many people don't realise is that expressly also acts as a windbreak. The wind coming off the harbour could, I'm told make walking up George and Macquarie streets difficult in even light winds. Ask any Sydneysider of the 1950s. My Dad and Grandparents used to tell me how bad it was.
I love the Cahill and the Corkscrew. They are icons. Getting dated, but a spruce up and a pedestrian walkway would reduce it's visual impact.
The only way to update it would be to turn it into a powered walkway like under the domain... then drivers would hit this travelvator at 60 then slingshot out of it at 400km/h like a tesla rocket getting to the f1 in a couple of minutes flying past and landing on the bridge where the windsock is . Since the engine is heavy and the car will be pointing down the slope will be a perfect and safe way to de accelerate the flying missiles
Personally, while Clover Moore’s plan would be nice, and it would be great to see the whole area opened up, i think turning the expressway into a NYC ‘Highline’ style elevated greenway is far better.
Not only is it much cheaper, it doesn’t have to be an eyesore. The success of the Highline is proof of this. It could serve as a great revitalisation of Circular Quay, the current NSW governments proposal seems to be leaning towards this. Perhaps eventually the remaining two lanes could be transformed into a pedestrian zone too.
Instead of 2 traffic lanes on the Cahill, why not restore the old tram lanes on the harbour bridge for light rail or (electric) BRT, they would then turn onto the Cahill and then onto Macquarie Street.
Interesting idea. The northern end of the route would need to be investigated (I assume it would have to run into North Sydney CBD). The current Mount St ramp may be too steep a grade for light rail, and reinstating the original viaduct across to Blue St may no longer be feasible due to needing clearance for trucks and buses on the Bradfield Hwy. Building a new viaduct to Blue St or the Pacific Hwy on a different alignment (closer to High St?) may be possible.
Great idea. Returning Cahill to rapid transit (clean BRT not tram) is the most efficient option. Best to have souhbound BRT and full width cycle routes on east side of bridge with northbound BRT in lane 1. The existing cycle route is beyond capacity and won't be able to deal with the quadrupling of use when they build the ramp at Milson's Point. Pedestrians would love to have the west side path back.
Restoring the original tram viaduct works, it was plenty high enough at rail level linking to the old tram/train concourse still there southeast of North Sydney station.
@@charlielloyd1080 Interesting... why have the BRT running against the traffic? Taking lanes 7 and 8 for BRT would mean an easy turn to/from the Cahill without the need for the corkscrew.
@@jack2453 oops my mistake! I mixed up northbound and southbound. I have edited my first comment I hope it makes more sense now.
@@charlielloyd1080 Sounds fine - but would mean reclaiming 2 car lanes as well as the existing bus lane, which would certainly anniy some.
It is only hated by a loud minority. The view you get on the train has you arrive at Circular Quay station is the best view in the country. It is being pushed by developers or building owners who want a reason to raise there rental prices. The expressway is for the people and provides transport for us. Road, Rail and walking. The real eyesore is the apartment buildings on the eastern side of the Quay.
I think that was like an advertisement for people travelling into the city, like hey theres a toaster... ill have a toast with my coffee today! 😁
F**king oath
The best way to open up the area is to get rid of a bunch of the shops and restaurants underneath the Cahill (do we really need a Hungry Jacks) which seems to be part of the Perrotet plan.
As for demolishing the Cahill - the Harbour Tunnel is not a replacement for the Cahill. It doesn't provide any access to the city unless you turn around in Wollomooloo which is already choked.
To provide some access to/from the East of the City (lots of existing carparks under the Opera House, GPT, Chifley etc) you'd have to create a massive interchange near the Conservatorium/ State Library, which would probably be just as much a disaster and eyesore on the Eastern side of the city and block substantial amounts of pedestrian access to the Domain.
And undergrounding the train line would be massively expensive with the grades involved and need to construct a new station below water level in what is mostly reclaimed land anyway.
Actually, just how much of the traffic on Cahill travels into the city? I thought both Cahill and Tunnel were meant as bypasses.
@@HenryMidfields The Cahill Expressway was originally intended to link the Harbour Bridge to the eastern side of the CBD (the ramps near the Conservatorium of Music are a remnant of that) and to the Eastern Distributor (the original plan for the ED was above-ground and would have cut a path from the Domain to Moore Park, roughly through the middle of Taylor Square). When that plan was shelved, it ended up just dumping traffic into Woolloomooloo and Darlinghurst.
You are correct on this solution might be shutting down the expressway turning it into a high line while modifying the Circular Quay Railway Station to have lifts to the new Highline which was originally the Cahill Expressway
Southbound drivers can choose the bridge for City & West or tunnel for City South & East. The Cahill expressway has little purpose, maybe keep one slowed down lane serving northbound traffic to Milson's point and Kirribilli.
@@charlielloyd1080 But as above there is no exit from the tunnel to City East.. you have to do a wacky turn around Woolloomooloo that couldn't handle any more traffic
Love your vids - new Sydney subscriber here! I dont mind Circular Quay's sea wall design, its a statement from the time it was made. As much as Cahill is an eyesore I imagine that it takes strain off of the tunnel beneath the harbour to some extent. Looking forward to more videos!
I think the Cahill is a very necessary function and fine piece of roadway. I love the view of the overseas liners when traveling north. Hands off!
It’s a necessary piece of infrastructure. We need the road and we need the railway. It’s needed unlike what the host claims. If we are to replace it then we would need a new road underground plus a new railway. I agree it’s a marvelous view from the expressway.
Thats what she said.. and now hear i am, with soiled Kleenex... and woolies is out.. woe to me
I am in the tiny minority that want Cahill Exp to be kept.
The Harbour Tunnel is insufficient by itself for traffic flow into the city itself from the tunnel.
I'd bet most drive on Cahill Exp after picking up friends and family from the airport on their way to North of the Harbour. Why? It's the best way to show the Sydney Harbour without getting out of the car. Passengers could see a lot in the short minute on it.
I have one suggestion.
Keep the Cahill Exp as it is for traffic.
But widen the pedestrian walkway over the Circular Quay. Then some kind of landscape design on the hanging side of the widened walkway.
This would cover up the ugly side of Cahill Exp and at the same time keep the traffic flow plus have a 'greenway' space for pedestrians.
If widen out of the walkway isn't practical, reducing the traffic lanes to 2 or 3 lanes only is a good alternative. Take one lane as part of the Greenway.
I like Cahill Exp myself.
You may not be the minority! I've had a lot of comments saying it should be kept. I guess the "universally hated" part of my thumbnail needs changing 🤭
you deserve a lot more views bro your video quality is very good!
Thank you!! Glad you enjoyed it!
Did you not notice the amount of traffic on the freeway ? It’s vital for Sydney !
Exactly!
Getting rid of it is vital for Sydney. We're choking.
@@jack2453 Spoken like someone who doesn't live in the city. Those of us who live in the city are forever having to deal with decisions made by leaders who live in the suburbs. I
t seems it is easy to make grand plans for their convenience as if the city is just a place to visit. Those of us who live here are never consulted about what we need.
@@artistjoh It's quite the oposite. City dwellers generally are prepared to walk cycle and take public transport. It's the suburbites who insist on enormous roads gouging through the city to indulge their car enabled laziness.
@@jack2453 As I said in previous comment, we use public transport more than the average, but we still need to drive. Or are you suggesting we have less rights than those in the suburbs?
You can bet the house if they bring it down it won’t be used as public space it’ll be sold to developers .
I love the look of the Cahill Expressway, it's a perfect view into the marvels of our industrial past. I think the industrial look is beautiful.
Isnt the ancient museum something... there are even secret passages apparently
Fascinating
I agree. In the scale of ugliness is not that bad. And what would it reveal. High rise office towers and shops? It’s not like there’s a massive park or mountain it’s covering up.
@@xr6lad all it needs is a laser show at night like during vivid .. did you see how be beautiful it can be?
During the day still have the lasers but get the tolls back on with a twist.. they start at the northern entry and give back a pair of shades which make everything dark so you can see the lasers
It is typical late 1940s public works architecture although it opened in 1956. The piers it sits on were there in 1936, sans the cement rendering and so were the railway tunnel approaches that were built using 1920s tunnelling techniques so the intention was always there to build something very close to what we see today. To move it would require a lowering of the railway approaches at the east and west ends and by using a coffer dam, pre-stressed concrete box sections like those used during the construction of the Sydney Harbour Tunnel would have to be lowered into position directly underneath, and in line with the current rail alignment, although the approaching grades would be quite steep. (Remember the problem with grades experienced by trains on the Macquarie Rail Link tunnels under the Lane Cove River before conversion to Metro.) Concrete from the existing tunnel approaches at Circular Quay would need to be broken up and recycled. I admire the imagination of the supporters of this proposal but is it really worth the effort?
@@RangaTurk anything is worth the effort if you put your mind to it
WHO SAYS THIS ROAD IS UNIVERSALLY HATED!? I like the road. I think Sydney should have MORE roads that enable a view over the city and water views. In FACT I was only taking overseas visitors into the city the other day and they loved the view of the city from a very unusual vantage point, such as this one. This is the only road which has not been absolutely SPOILT by super high fences and wire railings !!! We have a very pretty city and this is one of the only roads that offer a fresh glimpse of it available from the perspective of your vehicle! Look at various roads in America that wind their way though and around their cities providing a glimpse of the buildings. There is nothing wrong with this road except for the fact that it is too small. A few extra lanes should/could be added. AND, from a ferry on water, it visibly SHOWS that Sydney is a bustling modern metropolis. That shows it is going somewhere. I will continue to VOTE to keep this iconic road.
Lol American highways are known around the world because of how bad they are. Using them as an example of a positive thing shows you haven’t done much research.
I get the Cahill is ugly and a lot of people want it gone, but I just don't see the benefits outweighing the costs. There are plenty of other projects that offer better value for money
Hi Sharrath, thanks for sharing another interesting video. As a young child, I remember seeing Circular Quay Station first opening and some years later, the Cahill Expressway opened. Not long after the opening, on one occasion, my dad and I actually walked the length of the Cahill Expressway from Circular Quay to the Harbour Bridge, via the tunnel along a very narrow footpath in between. It was only when we reached the Harbour Bridge end of the tunnel, we found a sign saying "No Pedestrians". Oops!!! We then had to walk all the way back through retracing our steps, as there was no way of exiting any other way. One thing that they could do is turn the Cahill Expressway slightly left at the Harbour Bridge end, which would reopen the area of the former tram tunnel. Then, if they decided to reuse the two eastern traffic lanes for light rail, they could run a light rail line directly between North Sydney CBD and Wynyard Station (Platforms 1 & 2). As far as Circular Quay Station is concerned, I think that could be left as is, as the trains have no problems there. Also, that would save a lot of money. Anyway, take care. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
It’s not universally hated. The road works and Sydney needs more like it.
It's fashionable and easy to criticise roads like the Cahill. It's also short sighted - a chronic issue with this TH-cam channel.
Hey bro love the videos. Wish more people talked critically about Sydney's transport/infrastructure problems. You've got a new Sydney subscriber.
Thanks!!
One good turns another i shall also subscribe..to the subscriber
The only problem with Cahill expressway is everyone who has a problem with it
We CAN afford to do it fully. Think of the extra tourism to that area transformed by splendid vision? No more grimy car fumes, pigeon poop and the rumbling of trains. To those who love the eyesore of the Circular Quay Railway viaduct, and its hideous piggy backer, the Cahill Expressway, I say "You can keep it, it's all yours". The damned thing is made of concrete, lead-fuel doused steel and stone fascia. You can have the lot and reconstruct it at your pleasure, rivet by rivet in a rural place of your choosing. Both the railway and the expressway will not be missed by any Sydneysider with more than an ounce of good taste. A great presentation, as always. Thanks kindly!
Turn it into a metro line, continue it down to the eastern suburbs
The Cahill Expressway is not universally hated. I am a local, and love it. The tunnel does not feed me into Macquarie Street as I need. Rather than just being a remnant of a forgotten era, it is a living part of today's living present.
It is easy for those who do not live in the CBD to make it difficult for those of us who live here to be able to drive and get around. Public transport is important and those of us CBD dwellers use it more than other people, but we still need to drive. The open space ideal has already drained the life out of George Street. Architectural drawings of vibrant spaces do not always equate to a grand reality on the ground.
"The tunnel does not feed me into Macquarie Street". But an even worse disaster than the Cahill's destruction of Circular Quay was its less visible destruction of the Domain. Sydney lost a lot of its inner green belt and pedestrian walks.
lots of better things to spend money on than removing/decorating a road which bothers a few people as it "looks bad". The expressway also provides vital city access that the Tunnel doesn't. Circular quay station is excellent though, they definitely won't mess with that
They literally cant unless they want to make a turning circle under the harbour
Leave the Cahill expressway alone , its a part of Sydney's history , it does not look that bad but when one drives on it , it has a world class view. If you don't like looking at it , look where you are walking instead,
Covering it up is an alternative, and probably the cheapest.
Get some clever Architects and Artists to design something and bingo, no more eyesore and maybe a another landmark/tourist attraction.
Give me some money and I'll go down to Bunnings and buy a couple of hundred of those sail awning things, and I'll work something out and only charge them a tenth of that 216 mill, everybody wins !.
Throw in a sanga stall with some blokes from rotary give out snags and do a bit of work gets you sauce
Every one chips in whether its a single pop rivet or 3d cad design taking weeks! Makes the job easier
It is one of the most scenic roads in Sydney and available to all, by car, by train o on foot.
It is the last of the free pleasures our government thoughtfully provided.
The Carl Expressway is very useful when you travel from the North to CBD. I’m sure that won’t get rid of it. It will be there forever. I drive across it everyday.
Take a train 🚂 or a bus 🚌, I did shift work from the north shore into the city and up to Hornsby for years. No one needs to personally drive into the city.
@@nedt but what about crusing on a Friday night to impress the chickie babes at Jackson on George surely a tangara lacks a certain quality
@@nedt I do. Im a Tradie and like many other tradies I'm crossing the bridge and going across Carl expressway everyday to get to my sites. Yeah I can take the tunnel but the tolls alone would be a killer
You can easily access the CBD from the Bridge without using the CE. The Bridge will put you on York St.
Love this channel and the insights into Sydney and surrounds in regards to traffic and public transport. Please, please, please do a video on The Grand Parade in Brighton Le Sands and the F6 that is currently being built. I’d love to hear your thoughts.
The Cahill Expressway is a world class example of crass cityscape destroying infrastructure. But you have to have a sense of humour. The great joke from 1958 was dumping tons of concrete and steel across the front of the Royal Automobile Club, blocking their view from dining room to the harbour. See video at 7:00 minutes in. At the time it was the tallest building north of Bridge Street. When they pull down the expressway they should keep the bit in front of RACA building, dumping old cars and buses there just to keep the joke alive.
I love driving on the Cahill expressway around 10pm in the evening. Sometimes it's just the best part of my day!
I used to hang around the CBD when I was young in the 60's and 70's. There used to be the best fish and chips across from CQ. They bulldozed the building along with the rest of the city, built glass towers and sucked all eh character out of the place. Now it's just a sterile slum. You want to tear down what little is left ? What next ? The rocks ? The few terraces left ? after all they are just old buildings, eyesores and impracticable. Lets knock it all down get rid of the ferry terminal, concrete the parks and have wall to wall chain fast food places. That'll be better...
Great video! One important think about the Cahill Expressway that this video and other people in the comments have missed out is the idea of "induced demand" and how it works in reverse, too. Getting rid of all cars from the Cahill Expressway, whether it's knocked down or not (although I'm personally hoping for knocking it down), would also get rid of traffic in the city by incentivising people to take the train or active transport instead, since it will be more difficult to get to the city by car. While drivers may initially see this as inconvenient, that's the whole point. As far as business, air quality, climate change, and car deaths are concerned, less cars in the city is definitely a good thing.
Thank you! 100% correct, many viewers are staunchly against the idea of removing the freeway, but the truth is alternate ways could be found by these drivers.
@@BuildingBeautifully for sure! The old tram route over the bridge could even be restored to give people more options
I use the Cahill Expressway on a regular basis to drive to North Sydney. I hope they keep it, as demolishing it will make a longer car journey.
It would not cost $1 Billion but more likely $3 Billion. Paul Keating offered to remove it in 1988. We need "value capture" which is a new fee on all property holders whose property value increases due to better views.
All transport upgrades require a "value capture" model.
Whilst the Cahill is a scar across the welcome mat to the CBD...it a necessary eyesore that serves its purpose...providing a relatively quicker form of access from Nth Sydnet to yhe CBD...if you use it regularly like I do, as do many others on a daily basis, you'll soon learn its value...albeit an ugly one.
The alternative to redirect traffic into the north western CBD onto York St and its environs would just create more grid lock in an already busy and constrictive setting.......beautify it...narrow it to one lane in each direction...but I think the alternative to demolishing it is far worse...a case of the disease is worse than the cure scenario!!!!
Another great video however...thanks again!!!!!
Wow the typo's are strong this morning 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️ more coffee needed before attempting to type 😂😂😂
Reasons why the Cahill Expressway won't change at all for a very long time. 1 - Cost; Moving a major rail line underground would be a waste of money. 2 - Traffic Flow; removing or reducing the number of lanes on the expressway would cripple traffic flow in the already congested peak hour times to and from the northern suburbs. Plus to replace the Cahill with another tunnel would take years and even more money, which we don't have. 3 - The current Perrottet government won't survive the next election and anything he says about upgrading the Quay landscape is just Pie in the Sky dreaming. While the 'futuristic' plans for the Quay are beautiful, no government in their right mind would push on with changes knowing that they will lose a huge number of voters from the North Shore. The Perrottet government recently cancelled funding for the much needs upgrade to The Spit Bridge region one of the worst traffic congestion spots in all of Sydney. Then we have Clover Moore's idea for Sydney. Clover has been mayor since 2004. While The Rocks area has seen a new lease on life with outdoor dinning, the rest of Sydney city is virtually a ghost town by 6pm every night and very quite on weekends. We look at other major cities around the world London, NYC even Melbourne, all vibrant cities with lots of cafes, nightlife etc. Clover wants to spend money that she doesn't have on the Quay. Surely the money allocated to folly's like her cancelled, not quite an arch sculpture should be redirected into boosting the inner city's after hours entertainment venues such as restaurants and cafes. How does she manage to get re-elected?
All valid points, except that George St. isn't quiet on weekends and hasn't been for at least 20 years. In fact, it can be quite busy until as late as midnight or 1am on Friday and Saturday nights.
$1 billion over 10 years is $100m pa. Sounds a lot, but they could share the costs with the State Govt, and the income benefits included as an offset (economic activity from increased visitors, health & wellbeing reducing the strain on public health, and the uplift in nearby valuations and their effects on land tax revenue), plus remembering that the State Govt just spent $1B ie the same price on replacing a rarely full rectangular stadium which can't be used for oval-shaped sports. This would cost Council and State way less than $50m pa each.
I’m sceptical about the $1b estimate but agree if that was the price tag it’s not really that much.
The only thing that needs to change is the ground level to be hollowed out. The public access to a northern viewing platform would also be good. I disagree that it is an 'eyesore'. Being able to walk under the Cahill to a great view is fabulous. The view is framed, dramatised and 'captured'. If it was completely open it would be just a little ho-hum!
Agreed, it also provides shelter, unlike Clovers plan, which puts everyone at the mercy of the elements.
Why not cover it up with some artsy, fartsy awnings and have even better weather protection and hide the expressway?
@@SaintKimbo Clover is a one-eyed zealot. A cosmetic clean up is all that is needed. Better things to spend money on than removing these icons.
Insane removing a useful and FREE road to make circular key slightly less ugly. Come on!
IDK, I always love driving on that part of road.
Would be annoyed if it was to go.
The only time I ever drive over the Cahill expressway is when I feel like taking the ‘scenic route’. If they decide to go from 4 lanes to 2 they would definitely need to drop the speed limit to 40km/h, otherwise it would definitely not be a pleasant place for a stroll
There may be sensitive types who are “suffocated” by the expressway/railway but perhaps we could supply them with VR goggles when they visit the area. There is no point in removing the expressway without removing the railway, and from everything I’ve ever read, connecting Wynyard to St James underground is virtually impossible owing to the grades.
No one wants to break the City Circle loop, and no one wants to lose rail access to Circular Quay. Personally, I don’t mind the expressway/railway, and I certainly don’t want to spend a billion throwing more tinsel around the city.
Just look at it, marvel at the Fritz Lang-esque interchange of road/rail/sea/walkway, and get on with your day. Perhaps replace any of the hideous fast food shops with an emergency clinic for any passers-by still suffering from suffocation.
Agreed, I bet a lot of other Counties around the world would like have the 'problem' of an eyesore expressway not accessorizing their sea/rail/road hub perfectly.
I never gave the Cahill Expressway a thought until talk of it as an eyesore was brought up, then I realized that is because I'm only ever underneath it, unlike those that look down upon it, and us perhaps.
Why even go of they need VR, just use VR all the time leave real life for people who have retired and want to enjoy some peace of old times .. like actually restore the place to an older feel
Or maybe im thinking the wrong way around give the older generation a way to relive the older times and leave the young kids to run amock in the cit- no wait first time was better
I disagree with you on this one. I've walked along viaducts that have been turned into parks in New York and Paris, and they're quite lovely. And Sydney is actually really good at making viaducts pretty; look at the Western Distributor over Wynyard, or the eastern approaches to the Anzac Bridge for examples. I think putting trees on the Cahill will make it not an eyesore.
Also, it's not completely useless infrastructure; Kirribilli, Milsons Point and Greenwich are major residential suburbs, and their residents have legitimate need to access the M1 southbound. Pushing them back to Falcon Street or the A8 would create real local problems. The public transport options available to them are fantastic for getting into the City, but poor for getting further. Maybe when Victoria Cross Station gets finished, local bus lines will connect to that, but right now, those buses, like the ferries, don't go anywhere beyond Circular Quay… which is rather ironic, given the topic of this video. 🙂
I vote leave it alone, we need to invest outside the CBD, no one goes in there anymore, spend more out west.
Three words. Leave, it and alone.
Easy.
Drove that on Wed 01 Mar 23, done so since 1980, quick exit from the city to the bridge. Rumour has it that a US "big wig" visiting Sydney in 1957, said, "Oh boy, I am so glad you are pulling that thing down, it looks so awful". With the trains, I am due to retire soon, but the world's best sight, never tire of it, is to look out and view the bridge and Opera House from CQ Station - need to keep that :).
I could not possibly agree with you less. The entire viaduct completes the view of passengers coming into circular quay. Like Sydney is wearing a bow tie. And keep the ferries too. Clover Moore wrecks everything she touches, like Kings Cross and Oxford Street
Excellent video, as always. Other thing we need to do is move the cruise ships and dismantle the OPT. I know they make us a lot of money and it's convenient for the passengers, but then, during summer we just have to put up with a floating skyscraper blocking the views most of the day every day?
Oh, and also get rid of the toasters. I cannot believe that was ever allowed to happen.
SO close to 10k, good work and I love your video's (and study for Uni !!!!)..
I understand well the intent of taking back the land from cars...and I am all for it...however:
-What will the alternatives be for drivers who lose this vital roadway and where will they be placed?
-Will there be an alternative route for people coming from South Dowling if they want to use the bridge without getting off the main roads?
-Will the tunnel suffice as an alternative route for the potential extra traffic?
Clover also wanted to demolish all the building's between town hall and Hyde Park, reduce oxford st to one lane of traffic each way, seperate the city of Sydney into 7 self sustainable village's by 2030 and lost $50ish on a giant milk crate sculpture that never happened. And the no Christmas decorations thing.
The woman is batshit crazy.
As for the place holder premier's plan... Meh.
Just leave things alone.
No tourist is not visiting Sydney because of the Cahill expressway.
Yeah nah the milkcrate thingy did happen but what happens a lot of times when you assign tradesman and there's access to milkcrates.... you preety much gave them the equivalent of free office chairs *sucks teeth
So yeah nah
A lot of money and creative energy was spent revitalising and unifying the CQ in the 1980s for the bicentenerary. The results were pretty good - but srate governments and the city council since then have not maintained it. Civic infrastructure is not 'build and forget'.
Let's hope Perrottet's plans go ahead then; the area is good now, but it definitely needs an upgrade.
I love that express way.
One element, always overlooked by city planners and expsecaily Clover moore, in the access for service vehicles.
Ive worked at cafe sydney as contractor and its always been nightmare to access the building for service, delivery and equipment supplies for live events..
The city is nothing without live events, but contractors afre often left parking on footpaths and copping tickets left right and centre.
Since the tramns went in its made access in that are even harder, remove even more acces ??? are you kidding.,
The problem with architects is they only think about the form...rows of concrete and glass .
They never give thjought to the people that actually have to keep them working fo the enxt 50 yrs, clean them and supply them with goods and equipment so they can trade...
And literally every building in Shitney is like this. A nightmare...
Also if you have a vehicle over 1.8m in height your boned to park anywhere, becuase apperntly, according to city planners, vans dont exist.
The highlight of my career was when someone once suggested i get a bus with my ladder, tools, plywood ect...
They were serious too.
Some people get a bee in their bonnet about anything. There is no problem.
I particularly enjoyed this upload. Informative, entertaining and "tellin' it like it is"
How does Sydney arrive at these figures? Shame Sydney's not on a fault line like San Francisco to take it down for cheap.
I think we should add 12 more lanes to the Cahill Expressway and turn the old railway into a second 14 lane expressway to solve the traffic problem. To ensure that livability is maximised, the entire dual storey bridge apparatus will be clad in two massive 50m tall and 3m thick concrete walls to eliminate noise pollution
A remnant of a time in Sydney's history, before over population, when life was simple.
Could just put up some jersey barriers and close off to traffic until they can afford to demolish the expressway. I'm not from Sydney, but sounds like the expressway doesn't have much of a purpose anymore.
Granted a have driven over the cahill expressway maybe twice in 44 years but i will never forget the sight as a child or as an adult of the train emerging out of the tunnel and arriving at circular quay. Trains have to stay
Sydney Harbour Tunnel has a problem.. then Cahill Expressway becomes a plan B~!!!
I take your point. Scarce funds should go to building infrastructure, not tearing it down, especially a major railway station like Circular Quay. Mr Perrottet's plan sounds like a reasonable compromise.
Very much over simplified.
Being someone who rely on the road because there is no access to the tunnel from Milsons Point without a significant detour and significant additional time on to my journey. There is a fair number of suburbs on the north side of the harbour in the same situation.
While I agree in principle with trying to beautify Circular Quay, I don't agree this should be done without consideration to the thousands of motorists that use the road daily.
I'm thankful that it's a state road and not a council road and the incumbent Mayor can't just do what she wants to do without consideration
Undergrounding the railway is ridiculous; would make needed grades for connections with Wynyard and St James stations impossible. Remove the top deck and the catenary wires and their supports would be exposed and create a far worse eyesore - I notice Clover has had the wires air brushed out of the artists impression. Make it light rail and a cycleway (North Sydney into East Sydney) to keep sensitive souls in a safe place. Apart from that do nothing there and do something beautiful in Western Sydney for a change.
I disagree that putting in plazas is the answer to everything. What you're left with are flat spaces surrounded by glass. I'm cool with getting rid of the Cahill, but the railway adds texture, and intrigue, something to differentiate it the area from somewhere like Darling Harbour or Barangaroo. We don't need to see the CBD from the water...we get that reveal when we walk under the railway, like a garden arbour. We just need to make the passages as wide and attractive as possible. Also, guaranteed at least a third of the proposed plaza would be developed for luxury residential to pay for it all.
Seeing the view from Circular Quay station from the train as it was pulling into the station on my very first day in Sydney is still one of my fondest memories. This is partially why I don't hate Cahill Expressway as much as others do, at least when it comes to the train station. That said, I think Sydney should just bite the bullet and spend the money to tear it down. As you said, the Harbour Tunnel does the same thing the expressway does. The train line would be more difficult though, it's my understanding the grade from Wynyard to Circular Quay would be too steep to be underground.
There is a better solution turn the expressway into the Sydney version of New York City High Line that way you keep the Railway Line undneath the expressway
The upgrade proposal is logical.
What about a green canopy if you must keep two remaining lanes only open on the southern side?
Two lanes only for cars and a greenspace vibrant walkway for pedestrians from the Botanic Gardens to the Rocks. It becomes a green space viewing platform with outdoor cafes. An amazing viewing platform and gathering place with amazing harbour views. The railway station is iconic to step out to such a magnificent panorama. I goes well with the design of the harbour bridge.
It is needed for times when there are incidents in the tunnel. The second harbour tunnel makes this a timely option.
Because it’s very necessary to the heavy rail circle, and the very necessary road artery from the bridge.
The problem is that if they close the Cahill Expressway, it will only lead to more traffic in the harbour tunnel and nowhere for cars to go in the event that the harbour tunnel is closed
I think the best idea first would be to find other public transport options into the city so the Cahill express way can become redundant through better public transport and another tunnel parallel to the existing one then the Cahill express way can be transformed without to much disruption to travelling throught the city
On the fence with this one. I think it can be kept but spruced up to make it look good. 2 lanes noth and south in the harbour tunnel is already choked imagine what removing the cahill would do to current traffic. Only way into North Sydney from East Sydney unless you take cross city tunnel all the way to Harbour St then north onto the Bradfield. The alternate is to take the harbour tunnel and exit at Crows nest then cut back to North Sydney.
Can't put circular quay under ground as it will flood that's what bradfield said back when he designed Sydney's train system and harbour Bridge
Then how do you explain the harbour tunnel. Technology has improved
@@gdawwg1125 where they want to stick the station can still flood no matter what technology we have look what happened to the tunnels near St James station
@@adambrock3932 those are not used and slowly filled with water over years
They could easily pump them out
@@gdawwg1125 apparently they tried but kept filling with water
@@adambrock3932 surely they've faced the same issues with barrangaroo station, and they've built that.
Governments can never not afford things. They can borrow money or raise taxes, or reduce other spending, to pay for anything they want to pay for. This is a nationally important project in our largest city and largest tourist attraction.
This is the ONLY FREE elevated observation deck above Circular Quay. Train & road users can also see.
Cahill Expressway is iconic, efficient & smart design. Sydney has too less of this type combined structure.
I've listened to people (usually associated with the City Council or architectural firms) whinging about the Cahill Expressway for years. Personally I no trouble driving over it, taking the trains under it or walking beneath it to get to the ferries. It's a utilitarian structure that does what it was designed to do pretty well IMHO. Given that vast amounts of money has already been invested in the submarine road tunnel, I suppose the Cahill could potentially be removed and I guess we'll all happily move the traffic it moved from the Harbour Bridge to the tunnel. What could possibly go wrong?
Plans to move Circular Quay station underground verge on madness IMHO.
Sydney is already spending a fortune building metros every which way (even to convert a perfectly functional train line from Sydenham to Bankstown to a metro - which may be about to fall victim to cost overruns) and I feel moving a perfectly functional railway underground while removing the ferry wharves to ... where? ... will achieve little at humongous expense. Architects and sight lines be damned. Leave the thing alone and use all that money productively somewhere else.
all suggestions sound really nice but due to the age of both bridges i would think they come under a heritage listing (but that means nothing to higher powers). due to said point of its age i would think of upgrading, modernisation or improving the structure. integration with nature or shops or even the terminals for the quay itself since they do share the foundations.
removal of the bridges would also bring forth the logical nightmare to the city during the construction/ demolition. since the bridge brings such importance to the transport of sydney, i can only suggest improving before removing i.e. improve surrounding traffic on the harbour tunnel to make the express way less appealing.
I can see the merit in removing the road, but leaving the station - it would reduce it's "eyesoreness" (not eliminate, but reduce), return some of the open air vibe, and return Sydney to an earlier vision. All of the roadways on the north side of the harbour bridge could be greatly simplified - that area of the road is a nightmare to navigate. The road lanes on the harbour bridge could be kept to avoid needing reversible lanes, OR maybe even the eastmost lanes on the bridge could be returned to their tram history along with restoring Platforms 1+2 at Wynyard) by turning them back into light rail.
I think there's merit to keeping the trains, as 1) The area was always envisioned to be a major interchange (Trains meet Ferries), and 2) Without it, the entire city circle loop and the stations like St James and Museum (Which are beautiful stations that should be kept in their own right) would become useless. Unless they were incorporated into the Bondi line as was originally planned (Doubt that would happen now).
Honestly, turning it into a green / pedestrian space would just .. I think it would be the worst of both worlds.
Hang on, we can’t tear down the Tim Cahill Expressway! C’mon, he’s the greatest Socceroo of all time!
I think the motorway should be removed but the railway kept; it's not feasible to put it underground and it would be possible to make the elevated railway look much better if there wasn't a wide road layer on top of it. Though, removing the motorway would be a huge disruption to City Circle train services, and would probably require the line to be closed for months. It would be ideal if this was done at the same time as other major works on the City Circle, such as widening the platforms at Town Hall.
The solution might be destroying the upper deck which is the expressway then put a park on top of it Because the actual viaduct carries a Railway line the City Circle missing link and Circular Quay Railway station all were built in 1956
The cross city tunnel exit onto the Cahill Expressway is blocked off over the New Year period. Not just with orange cones also concrete blocks
The Cahill Express and the railway don't block anything. You're just wasting money for a purely aesthetic reason.
I don't know much about Sydney's transport needs or construction costs, but the cost of the "Greenway" option seems incongruous with it's benefits by comparison to the state government option. Perhaps "do nothing" really is the best option here, until better economic times roll around again.
All well and could to say get ride of the cahill expressway but the problem with that where does the traffic go because every second week the the harbour tunnel's are closed of a night for maintenance and cleaning and traffic is diverted across the cahill expressway to the harbour bridge its a key link so maintenance and cleaning can be carried out on the bridge and tunnels
Removing the motorway is easy, but removing the railway line is almost impossible. The grades from Wynyard and St James are way too steep for an underground station at Circular Quay. I suspect the railway station would have to stay, otherwise you’d just destroy the city circle.
I can't get to the con from the harbour tunnel though... It adds like 10 minutes to my trip if i go through it.
As much as I detest the current NSW Government's... govournance, the Greenway solution is somehow an fascinating compromise, and what I would suggest as a 50/50 form - function split. I do love driving the existing expressway, especially the loon-on ramp for the Harbour Bridge Northbound.... I also like how it's a barrier to the main city. It's very dated, but I hate the notion of ripping things down. Build them back up, and better than ever. $216m seemed to include building the piers, which is a totally unecessary blowout - they would. I hope the incoming governmnet has a good idea for the Cahill.
Folks want to make the real world look like an artist's impression. The thing is, artist's impressions are all bogus. You're not going to get huge numbers of people walking in every direction if there's nowhere for them to go, such as a railway station.
Thousands of motorists and rail passengers prove every day that the Cahill Expressway is a vital transport route, you would be mad to close it.
“I literally make these videos instead of studying for uni..” LOL 😂
The Cahill Expressway was a disaster in cutting the city completely off from the sea. Its not just the look and function of Circular Quay itself but the loss of vistas from many parts of both the city and North Sydney. But the disaster is and was undoubtedly made worse by the hidous concrete and steel bridge. A cheap way to make things a bit better is cladding and sound barriers - it beats me why that was not done decades ago.
I love the Cahill Exrpressway.
The harbour tunnel doesn’t have an exit to the Conservatorium/Macquarie St, so it would be a massive detour if the Cahill Expressway gets demolished
But that exit DESTROYED the Domain. Getting rid of it with the rest of the expressway would be a big plus to the liveability of Sydney's inner east.
Should be kept. Cahill is a great way to venture east of the city and to see the Bridge and Opera House. When you walk around the Quay you are too focused on the beautiful harbour, man made icons and on all the tourists and locals making their way around.
The solution is to break up the city circle railway and extend the lines across the harbour, one north the the northern beaches and the second to the north west along Victoria Road. This would be far cheaper than building new metro lines through the CBD and provide an opportunity to build a new Circular Quay station. The railway lane would save $Billions in car use, congestion, pollution, roads, buses, etc. and promote more sustainable urban development along the rail corridors.