You put into words what i love and sometimes hate about each map. One thing that gets me is the zombie spawning in the map vs outside. Having them spawn on the ground you walk on makes barriers seem useless and thus carpenter bad. Though i do like it in spacious no man's zone areas that are outside.
Exactly, this is another reason why some later maps in bo3 and 4 feel like you're taking too many unnecessary hits. It's because the zombies simply spawn in too fast.
Maps without fast travel can also have good flow if the map's layout is good enough, that's why I love Gorod Krovi's flow so much. Imagine how much of a chore the map would be to traverse if the 3rd floor of the Dept. Store didn't exist.
I mean the core maps flow itself is fine but having to wait for the dragon every time you want to go to pack and watching the cutsecene makes for a very tedious and annoying process which ruins the flow for me personally
narrow spaces do not ruin the flow of shadows; you're not accounting for the fact that you can, and the map is designed for you to, be getting set up quickly. Those tight hallways aren't really an issue until at least round 10, and within the first ten rounds on shadows, you should have access to the shield at least, if not the apothican servant or specialist weapon, all of which negate the hallway issue severely. Furthermore, the tight hallways lead to hectic and fun gameplay, just look at the fact that the trenches on origins are even narrower than the alleyways of shadows. Origins, also, gets around this, with the staves, though i think tight hallways still are a more valid criticism of Origins than Shadows
@@commander_eaa2862 but it does matter ! mob of the dead already proved that with how core the zombie shield is to that map! A map with good flow, that has equipment which does not interact with HOW the map flows, means the equipment will feel superfluous. The tramplesteam is a perfect example of what I mean, because its been done wrong and done perfectly while remaining unchanged- because the map that it was in completely changed how it felt to use. Equipment shouldn't be a gimmick, like the tramplesteam on Die Rise, but it should facilitate gameplay and be usable to "solve" problems on the map, like the tramplesteam on Buried. Now imagine if there was a tramplesteam on Origins. What would you use it for? Nothing. The map is not designed for the tramplesteam, therefore it becomes superfluous.
@@salmon_wine Thats a fair point, but I think if they were to actually make equipment be integrated with map flow specifically, It has to be something the player can naturally put together in their head relativley quickly or simple. The Apothicon's servant or shield on Shadows or the staffs on Origins is a TERRIBLE example for the partially the reason you mentioned. The map flow shouldn't be reliant on wonder weapons or gear that is scattered in out of the way locations around a huge map. A good example (or closest example), yes, is the trample steam, or even I'd say the Eco-Suit from AW. The maps in AW for the most part are built around the exo-suit and its gimmicks. However I said what I said because I shouldn't have to be stuck the same exact things every time to properly play a map, I should have options that have ups and downs.
Getting trapped on shadows is just a skill issue, you got so many different things to get you out of those situations. Swords, shot guns double packed, widows wine, apothecans servant, and the shield. It’s meant to be a tight map that’s the fun in it and it gives you enough tools too get out of those situations. Most of these items can be obtained before round 10 if you’ve played the map a few times
@CJSanta Shadows is so so easy man... like what... either take one of the many alternative paths while they respawn, or in a corridor just walk to the left to make the AI path change and then sprint so you get ahead while it readjusts...its just basic training and spawn control. "Good map flow" shouldn't be the map always cuddling you with convenient open areas, nor having a large size with constant 4kids fast travel and pathways so you never get trapped while going autopilot in a collectathon. Its just straight up game design, its structure just has to be coherent with the experience and the player just needs to learn to train and position. Also the reason why the portals aren't in the ritual rooms is because those are baby mode areas, they are designed for easy training aka the rituals, so having the easy way out there would be redundant, completely killing any tension the map has.
Hey CJ, I enjoyed watching your video and also enjoyed watching the Lex reaction of said video and I just wanted to mention one thing that I realized during the Lex react video. Both you and Lex mentioned that you love how Tag der Toten has stuff like Perk Machines, Wall Buys, the extra pathways etc. So that the map has details and things to do at every corner. No part of the map goes useless or unused. But the problem is, you also dislike Shadows of Evil's map design because the portals are not in the "dead end" ritual rooms. The problem with that goes hand in hand with what you love about Tag, which is that the portals give the middle alleyway sections a purpose to exist outside of single digit rounds: They give you access to safety by getting you into a room that makes it very easy to train zombies. The fact that zombie barriers are placed near those portals are there for a sense of risk and danger, if its the middle of the round no matter what CoD Zombies game it is, you're gonna deal with new zombies spawning wherever you go. There has to be risk or else the section will be easily abusable. You could probably just camp in that portal room knowing zombies cannot spawn on the opposite side of where every other zombie is coming from. That is almost exactly why Dead of the Night is such a joke of a high round strategy; there are a few rooms on that map that just lack that risk of zombie spawns to the point where camping in the room is better than training them in another room. What's more, I dont think Game Flow or Map Flow even cover the issue with Dead of the Night, it is strictly bad from the complexity in design. Silver Bullets, a million parts to find, weird obnoxious enemy types especially if you're new to the map and genuinely will not be set up before round 10-15. It is a terrible first impression for new players. I've been playing since BO1 pre-DLC and I still think that map has way too much it asks of me to do. The grocery list is what ruins that map for me. Not the map layout. I do think your reasoning for Tag being fantastic is sound, especially in terms of map layout. I do think the map layout was improved upon from my personal favourite map CotD. However I think for me personally, Tag is less good than CotD once again because of the complexity of BO4. They took too much inspiration from BO2 and had to make it so that the player should be aware of the laundry list of things to do beforehand rather than let the map speak for itself. While it is rewarding when you do know what you're doing, I think the average player would not be aware of heat packs, how to make dynamite, get free wonder weapons, doing much of anything related to the facility, etc. I do think the map suffers from simply being a BO4 map. That being said, I do think you make some other great points in this video and I thank you for a great opinion piece. You are bold for making one and I do think your effort was well worth it. Keep up the content, I look forward to more.
A few days ago I played TranZit thinking I would hate it,but I actually really like it,there's not a single map I don't like because I appreciate for what they are and how you play them
Would love an analysis like this on the shangri la was a developer response to players training situation, or how shang (and other remasters) changed when another engine is used. Also, surprized you didnt mention how alpha omega lets you choose teleporter destinations.
Well, didn't want the video too long. But that just goes to show that there are SO many parallels you could make with certain maps. And the more you think about it, the flow is everywhere and plays such a huge part of the game 👀
"Small maps are easy to dominate, choose your way to kill hordes and learn where zombies spawns and easy clean house. Some maps can big, some can been tedious to get to point A to B, some have teleporters to save some time and some does not. Sometimes are fixed positioned and sometimes are not. It depends of how the Scenarios are explored by the player." -The Zombies Map Flow Dilemma
You know? I don't think Tranzit would have been as bad if they removed the fog, denizens, and lava pools. I think it would've been one of the most fun and easiest maps out there. But, I do know why they added these things. 2 reasons why. The PS3 and 360. They only had 500MBs of RAM. In the PS3s case 256MBs X2(One pool for the CPU, the other for the GPU.) If those consoles had enough ram to have the map fully loaded at all times, I'm sure we wouldn't have had the Fog and such. It's a map that was ahead of it's time, sadly... It's one that needs a proper remaster.
One of the things I feel ruins the flow of a zombies map is how easily the zombies can despawn I was playing Der Eisendrache yesterday and I was building the wolf bow, I filled the soul box near double tap, had some zombies left over and tried to bring them to the undercroft, when I walked through the jug area they all despawned for no reason, I wasn't even sprinting so that way they wouldn't despawn
Someone talking about Attack of the radioactive thing positively?! How times have changed. (Great video by the way! Super interesting and intriguing to watch..)
I feel as though there is another aspect to flow that you failed to mention, the flow of going from one task to the next. It doesn't matter as much that the map is clunky and difficult to navigate if doing one task leads directly to the next and leaves you where you want to end up. Botd is a good example of this. According to your criteria, botd has almost no flow, but it's not that bad. If you go across the catwalk round 1 and knife the zombies, you can open to power while gathering shield parts. Sure you have to walk all the way back to the workshop (which is why the flow isn't perfect), but you can craft the shield just in time to get an easy full charge off the dogs. You then work on the wolf heads which leads you to the office for the code and to get the hells retriever. You put the code in leading to the spoon and a skull. You get the other skulls and unlock pap on the way. You can use a fast travel to get to the spawn skull more easily. You can get the office skull last leaving you at the room with the free blundergat right next to the house. If you go for the magmagat upgrade, it leads to the workshop, which is where the best (and imo the most fun) training spot is.
Well that would be a different kind of flow. It's when easter eggs converge with Map progression. Like how when you upgrade the Alistair's Annihilatior and you use each version to do easter egg steps. Very good gameplay design 👌
The way I look at tranzit's flow is that it's the ultimate player choice map on how to attack it for those who know how to play it. -You could take the bus and go straight for box like most think is the only option -Knowing turbine strat you could run straight to town or straight for a jet gun part early on -Try your luck with the teleporters and get teleported to power to turn it on early I don't have that same feeling of feeling like I have to always conform to the bus because unlike die rise where there are certain points on the map (power room) where there is literally no other choice than to wait for the elevators whereas on tranzit there is always another choice if you actually know how to go about it. (even if the teleports are random)
I would much rather have that freedom of choice to go about moving around in different ways than to be forced to take 1 path. Like BOTD is a literal straight line until you turn the 2nd power switch on and most maps that have 2 branching paths out of spawn usually have one that is more optimal and the other that nobody opens
For me, Blood Of The Dead has good flow. There are so many places to camp or train. The one thing that will set me into a rage is when someone builds the shield at New Industries or the docks! It is so out of the way in both locations. You only build it in the cell block location so it is accessible when you need it!
The Map Flow is kinda bad because of the size and fast travels placed in poor locations. But the Game Flow is great, training or camping is alot of fun. It's always important to separate the two types of flows 👀
Because I disagree with that, and I gave plenty of examples to give an idea of this mechanic. If you want to talk about why DE has such great map flow, why not make a video showing that off?
So the further away the teleporter is from the spawn as long as the room is more open is considered better flow. Granted It does feel like gorod krovi or revelations, but with shadows it seems it more high risk high reward due to widows wine being in the map and how convenient the teleporters are to the pap. Especially if you have the wonder weapon/gobblegums Also if you want to talk better flow der eisendrache is a better example but judging by your list its probably worse than tranzit or zetsubou (good map with terrible traversal)
The wonder weapon, perks, and gums are other mechanics entirely. The spawn and its relation to teleporters has nothing to do with it, the examples are of of the diffrent layout types. It's how easy it is to move from point a to point b, that's Map Flow. Say I'm by jugg, what's my quickest way to get to pack? However much easy or frustrating it is to get there is map flow. And how the zombies spawn in and attack me while I'm moving and how I engage them is game flow. Hope that clears it up more 🙂
I dont think it happens in the original ascension map but me and my friends found out that on bo3 if you leave the door closed on the speed cola side of the power switch then have one of you stand at the top of them stairs and the other player stands at the box spawn exactly where power is it messes up the zombies pathing and theyll all gather on the bottom floor of that building... Its not very helpful as you can only kill them with gershs but if you need to do something just stand at these two positions and youve pretty much just paused the game 👍
If IX had fast travel, or the shield was closer to the training spot, it would be considered the easiest map of all time And see okay with Die Maschine, it takes less than 30 seconds to get from Nacht's roof to PaP without the fast travel, also giving the player fast travel so close to where they spend most of their time completely removes the factor of "its the middle of the round its too scary to leave this spot" Basically, what your advocating for here is to remove a huge aspect of zombies, for example, when do you EVER PaP in the middle of the round on Ascension? Never, because it's a death sentence, same thing with Origins, and what you're advocating for would completely remove that from the game Now hearing your issues with SoE, I'm just gonna assume you never realized it's dangerous to do things in the middle of the round, and that you should stay in the open areas until theres only 1-2 zombies left
I love BO3 zombies so much but its game flow can be unbearable, especially on the Zombie Chronicle maps. Play Kino on BO1 and on BO3 and count how many times you’ll get swiped by a zombie from a completely different room when running around.
@@CJSanta lol your opinions fine I was just poking some fun.. I play Verruckt and Shang so tight spacing to me ain't a problem. Don't take it to heart geez
@primis2329 It's hard to tell the tone of a comment vs say, speaking to someone. I love Verruckt too. It's my 10th favorite map of all time. (Bo3 version)
Can't deny that because the game started on such a frustrating note, every dlc map release was an improvement. Few zombie games only get better with every single map release.
(MrT-)Lex(-ify) out here talking about map aesthetics... While YOU, CJSanta, out here articulating in great depth and detail about map AND game flows 🗺️&🎮🌊🌊 U da GOAT 🐐 LOVE and PRAISE Your content ❤️💞❤️🔥&🙌🙏🙇♂️
You know what i really liked about this video? The fact that the examples you used weren't the obvious ones that everyone defaults to. Example: talking about multilayered maps?: Die rise. I'm bored of hearing about Die rise
I think you miss the mark on shadows, why are you trying to run past zombies when you’re supposed to be killing, its narrow to challenge you. I also dont think the narrow pathways are the problem, its more that zombies do too much damage and hit really fast, which is just a bo3 problem. You also blame this on the layout when the layout is completely fine, its narrowness of certain areas. So basically, get gud.
I love when you talk about attack of the radioactive thing you say it's a circular map and continues with there's 4 teleporters 1 in each corner. Where the f is the corners in a circle my boy
So after watching this video your zombie ranking list is still not making sense. With your ranking you quote said SOE had perfect atmosphere, EE and decent side quest. However what kills it is flow apparently because according to this tight spaces and bad tp system. However you the say Dead of the Night has a great system because it has tps each corner of the map to end point and to Pack a Punch. A couple of things don't make sense the first being if just the tps got put into better spots it becomes a top 10 maps because of tps. If that is the case then why is Radioactive Thing 13 there is one TP on the map. Secondly if tps are that much of a criteria and how you can get somewhere so quick so the "flow" is better than it almost sounds like a tp is more important than any of the environment or any of the actual EE's or WW's. Because again according to you SOE is almost great except the flow. Thirdly SOE and DE have tps that take them to Pack a Punch. If this is a such a great innovation then why are they so low. I really think you should re think your list because the significance of what makes zombies good is more than a tp and two what you are saying about how maps flow are not making sense.
8:18 IX has one of the best map and game flows of all time, I think you just need to learn how to play it man. Fast travels aren’t necessary for a map like IX because every area is easily accessible from another. I think you’re just overcomplicating it, just try playing the map some more so you can get a better understanding of the layout.
I've played the map since launch, done all the side quests, and Easter egg multiple times. I've even gotten to decently high rounds, too. I know the layout. It's not a matter of "understand the layout." I do know the layout, and because of that, I see the problems. I don't think adding a single fast travel from spawn to pack a punch would over complicate the map. Every area is not accessible from another. If you are in the top if Ra tower, and you need to get to the bottom of Zeus, you have no choice but to run the length of the map in its entirety. Where you will have zombies spawning ahead of you, including gladiators, brawlers and tigers.
No, I'm explaining how map flow and game flow matters. The opposite of things being too tight is also a problem, then the maps would be too easy and boring. I'm guessing you just ignored the entire sections talking about Tranzit and why that maps flow is bad despite there being NO tight corners? I'd hope if you were going to disagree with what I have to say, you at least pay attention to all of my evidence.
How? I'm seriously curious? I explained the systems clearly and concisely. I showed with visual evidence how the mechanics on each map work and provided comparisons for each map. 😕 I always work hard to put my videos together. Is this really the "worst video" you've seen? Or do you simply disagree with what I said and / or don't understand the concept?
@@CJSanta I like maps based on looks and how much fun I'm having and replayability. That map has some replayability, looks bad, mid wonder weapons, is buggy at times, etc so u would play that map more than shadows, more than DE, more than origins, or more than most of the maps in cod history????
We legit are having zombies lectures at this point
And im all for it
lol
"Welcome to class. Did YOU do your homework?" 🤨
But fr, it just goes to show how much depth the mode has, when you could talk about it all day 😊
🔥
You put into words what i love and sometimes hate about each map. One thing that gets me is the zombie spawning in the map vs outside. Having them spawn on the ground you walk on makes barriers seem useless and thus carpenter bad. Though i do like it in spacious no man's zone areas that are outside.
Exactly, this is another reason why some later maps in bo3 and 4 feel like you're taking too many unnecessary hits. It's because the zombies simply spawn in too fast.
Yeah
Ngl, all I got from this is that you think big maps need non-randomized fast travel and that you find tight areas difficult to deal with
It's not always like that, plenty of Maps have tight areas, like Kino for example. It's about how the zombies spawn in that matters.
Maps without fast travel can also have good flow if the map's layout is good enough, that's why I love Gorod Krovi's flow so much. Imagine how much of a chore the map would be to traverse if the 3rd floor of the Dept. Store didn't exist.
I mean the core maps flow itself is fine but having to wait for the dragon every time you want to go to pack and watching the cutsecene makes for a very tedious and annoying process which ruins the flow for me personally
I agree Dead of the Night has one of the best flows! Were shadows is a good map but the narrow spaces will ruin its flow
narrow spaces do not ruin the flow of shadows; you're not accounting for the fact that you can, and the map is designed for you to, be getting set up quickly. Those tight hallways aren't really an issue until at least round 10, and within the first ten rounds on shadows, you should have access to the shield at least, if not the apothican servant or specialist weapon, all of which negate the hallway issue severely. Furthermore, the tight hallways lead to hectic and fun gameplay, just look at the fact that the trenches on origins are even narrower than the alleyways of shadows. Origins, also, gets around this, with the staves, though i think tight hallways still are a more valid criticism of Origins than Shadows
Equipment shouldn’t matter, the map should flow regardless of whats on the map
@@commander_eaa2862 but it does matter ! mob of the dead already proved that with how core the zombie shield is to that map! A map with good flow, that has equipment which does not interact with HOW the map flows, means the equipment will feel superfluous. The tramplesteam is a perfect example of what I mean, because its been done wrong and done perfectly while remaining unchanged- because the map that it was in completely changed how it felt to use. Equipment shouldn't be a gimmick, like the tramplesteam on Die Rise, but it should facilitate gameplay and be usable to "solve" problems on the map, like the tramplesteam on Buried. Now imagine if there was a tramplesteam on Origins. What would you use it for? Nothing. The map is not designed for the tramplesteam, therefore it becomes superfluous.
@@salmon_wine Thats a fair point, but I think if they were to actually make equipment be integrated with map flow specifically, It has to be something the player can naturally put together in their head relativley quickly or simple. The Apothicon's servant or shield on Shadows or the staffs on Origins is a TERRIBLE example for the partially the reason you mentioned. The map flow shouldn't be reliant on wonder weapons or gear that is scattered in out of the way locations around a huge map. A good example (or closest example), yes, is the trample steam, or even I'd say the Eco-Suit from AW. The maps in AW for the most part are built around the exo-suit and its gimmicks. However I said what I said because I shouldn't have to be stuck the same exact things every time to properly play a map, I should have options that have ups and downs.
Getting trapped on shadows is just a skill issue, you got so many different things to get you out of those situations. Swords, shot guns double packed, widows wine, apothecans servant, and the shield. It’s meant to be a tight map that’s the fun in it and it gives you enough tools too get out of those situations. Most of these items can be obtained before round 10 if you’ve played the map a few times
Yeah, but sometimes, more often than not you won't be able to react in time. Due to the tight layout
@CJSanta Shadows is so so easy man... like what... either take one of the many alternative paths while they respawn, or in a corridor just walk to the left to make the AI path change and then sprint so you get ahead while it readjusts...its just basic training and spawn control.
"Good map flow" shouldn't be the map always cuddling you with convenient open areas, nor having a large size with constant 4kids fast travel and pathways so you never get trapped while going autopilot in a collectathon. Its just straight up game design, its structure just has to be coherent with the experience and the player just needs to learn to train and position.
Also the reason why the portals aren't in the ritual rooms is because those are baby mode areas, they are designed for easy training aka the rituals, so having the easy way out there would be redundant, completely killing any tension the map has.
Hey CJ, I enjoyed watching your video and also enjoyed watching the Lex reaction of said video and I just wanted to mention one thing that I realized during the Lex react video.
Both you and Lex mentioned that you love how Tag der Toten has stuff like Perk Machines, Wall Buys, the extra pathways etc. So that the map has details and things to do at every corner. No part of the map goes useless or unused. But the problem is, you also dislike Shadows of Evil's map design because the portals are not in the "dead end" ritual rooms. The problem with that goes hand in hand with what you love about Tag, which is that the portals give the middle alleyway sections a purpose to exist outside of single digit rounds: They give you access to safety by getting you into a room that makes it very easy to train zombies. The fact that zombie barriers are placed near those portals are there for a sense of risk and danger, if its the middle of the round no matter what CoD Zombies game it is, you're gonna deal with new zombies spawning wherever you go. There has to be risk or else the section will be easily abusable. You could probably just camp in that portal room knowing zombies cannot spawn on the opposite side of where every other zombie is coming from.
That is almost exactly why Dead of the Night is such a joke of a high round strategy; there are a few rooms on that map that just lack that risk of zombie spawns to the point where camping in the room is better than training them in another room. What's more, I dont think Game Flow or Map Flow even cover the issue with Dead of the Night, it is strictly bad from the complexity in design. Silver Bullets, a million parts to find, weird obnoxious enemy types especially if you're new to the map and genuinely will not be set up before round 10-15. It is a terrible first impression for new players. I've been playing since BO1 pre-DLC and I still think that map has way too much it asks of me to do. The grocery list is what ruins that map for me. Not the map layout.
I do think your reasoning for Tag being fantastic is sound, especially in terms of map layout. I do think the map layout was improved upon from my personal favourite map CotD. However I think for me personally, Tag is less good than CotD once again because of the complexity of BO4. They took too much inspiration from BO2 and had to make it so that the player should be aware of the laundry list of things to do beforehand rather than let the map speak for itself. While it is rewarding when you do know what you're doing, I think the average player would not be aware of heat packs, how to make dynamite, get free wonder weapons, doing much of anything related to the facility, etc. I do think the map suffers from simply being a BO4 map.
That being said, I do think you make some other great points in this video and I thank you for a great opinion piece. You are bold for making one and I do think your effort was well worth it. Keep up the content, I look forward to more.
Thank you for saying something positive about Cold War, I know it's not everbody's cup of tea, but I love it a lot
Phenomenal video my guy
Thanks buddy, really put alot into getting this one articulated right 😁
your explanation of the lower ranked maps is why some people like them. i like all maps, cause i’m not picky, so thank you
A few days ago I played TranZit thinking I would hate it,but I actually really like it,there's not a single map I don't like because I appreciate for what they are and how you play them
Would love an analysis like this on the shangri la was a developer response to players training situation, or how shang (and other remasters) changed when another engine is used.
Also, surprized you didnt mention how alpha omega lets you choose teleporter destinations.
Well, didn't want the video too long.
But that just goes to show that there are SO many parallels you could make with certain maps.
And the more you think about it, the flow is everywhere and plays such a huge part of the game 👀
"Small maps are easy to dominate, choose your way to kill hordes and learn where zombies spawns and easy clean house.
Some maps can big, some can been tedious to get to point A to B, some have teleporters to save some time and some does not.
Sometimes are fixed positioned and sometimes are not.
It depends of how the Scenarios are explored by the player."
-The Zombies Map Flow Dilemma
This is so high quality! Ill keep watching your channel! Please remember me when you get big?
You got it, David Smith 😁
You know? I don't think Tranzit would have been as bad if they removed the fog, denizens, and lava pools. I think it would've been one of the most fun and easiest maps out there.
But, I do know why they added these things. 2 reasons why. The PS3 and 360. They only had 500MBs of RAM. In the PS3s case 256MBs X2(One pool for the CPU, the other for the GPU.) If those consoles had enough ram to have the map fully loaded at all times, I'm sure we wouldn't have had the Fog and such.
It's a map that was ahead of it's time, sadly... It's one that needs a proper remaster.
One of the things I feel ruins the flow of a zombies map is how easily the zombies can despawn
I was playing Der Eisendrache yesterday and I was building the wolf bow, I filled the soul box near double tap, had some zombies left over and tried to bring them to the undercroft, when I walked through the jug area they all despawned for no reason, I wasn't even sprinting so that way they wouldn't despawn
Someone talking about Attack of the radioactive thing positively?! How times have changed.
(Great video by the way! Super interesting and intriguing to watch..)
I feel as though there is another aspect to flow that you failed to mention, the flow of going from one task to the next. It doesn't matter as much that the map is clunky and difficult to navigate if doing one task leads directly to the next and leaves you where you want to end up. Botd is a good example of this. According to your criteria, botd has almost no flow, but it's not that bad. If you go across the catwalk round 1 and knife the zombies, you can open to power while gathering shield parts. Sure you have to walk all the way back to the workshop (which is why the flow isn't perfect), but you can craft the shield just in time to get an easy full charge off the dogs. You then work on the wolf heads which leads you to the office for the code and to get the hells retriever. You put the code in leading to the spoon and a skull. You get the other skulls and unlock pap on the way. You can use a fast travel to get to the spawn skull more easily. You can get the office skull last leaving you at the room with the free blundergat right next to the house. If you go for the magmagat upgrade, it leads to the workshop, which is where the best (and imo the most fun) training spot is.
Well that would be a different kind of flow. It's when easter eggs converge with Map progression.
Like how when you upgrade the Alistair's Annihilatior and you use each version to do easter egg steps.
Very good gameplay design 👌
This is a good vid! I hope the game devs can get the concept you've layed out so we can get good maps again
The way I look at tranzit's flow is that it's the ultimate player choice map on how to attack it for those who know how to play it.
-You could take the bus and go straight for box like most think is the only option
-Knowing turbine strat you could run straight to town or straight for a jet gun part early on
-Try your luck with the teleporters and get teleported to power to turn it on early
I don't have that same feeling of feeling like I have to always conform to the bus because unlike die rise where there are certain points on the map (power room) where there is literally no other choice than to wait for the elevators whereas on tranzit there is always another choice if you actually know how to go about it. (even if the teleports are random)
It's chaos, and while I think the map can be loopy fun, which is why I placed it high, that doesn't mean it's good 😅
I would much rather have that freedom of choice to go about moving around in different ways than to be forced to take 1 path. Like BOTD is a literal straight line until you turn the 2nd power switch on and most maps that have 2 branching paths out of spawn usually have one that is more optimal and the other that nobody opens
For me, Blood Of The Dead has good flow. There are so many places to camp or train. The one thing that will set me into a rage is when someone builds the shield at New Industries or the docks! It is so out of the way in both locations. You only build it in the cell block location so it is accessible when you need it!
The Map Flow is kinda bad because of the size and fast travels placed in poor locations. But the Game Flow is great, training or camping is alot of fun.
It's always important to separate the two types of flows 👀
This is a comically underrated channel. It's so hard to find good informational zombies videos about new or interesting topics but you do great
I just love to talk about zombies and all the things that make it so great ☺️
I saw the MrTlexify’s video reacting to this and the tag video, he was being nice about it
IX def needed a fast travel from top to bottom 😭👍
It would be improved by SO much. The easter egg is so unbearable just because of all the running back and fourth!
Glad to see an IW enjoyer.
0 mention of the masterful flow provided by tag der toten
Well, considering I mentioned it like 19 times in my video on it, I didn't think it necessary 😅
Great video bro really enjoyed this one👍
Thanks man 😊
Felt that this was an important one to make, for clarifications sake 👌
Why isnt Der Eisendrache mentioned at all? It has the best map flow in all of zombies.
Because I disagree with that, and I gave plenty of examples to give an idea of this mechanic.
If you want to talk about why DE has such great map flow, why not make a video showing that off?
Shopping free ruined all flow
Then don’t use it???
@@jackpot2223I’m saying, I’ve never understood the criticism against gobblegums when you aren’t even forced to use them
they are limited and pretty rare
So the further away the teleporter is from the spawn as long as the room is more open is considered better flow. Granted It does feel like gorod krovi or revelations, but with shadows it seems it more high risk high reward due to widows wine being in the map and how convenient the teleporters are to the pap. Especially if you have the wonder weapon/gobblegums
Also if you want to talk better flow der eisendrache is a better example but judging by your list its probably worse than tranzit
or
zetsubou (good map with terrible traversal)
The wonder weapon, perks, and gums are other mechanics entirely.
The spawn and its relation to teleporters has nothing to do with it, the examples are of of the diffrent layout types. It's how easy it is to move from point a to point b, that's Map Flow.
Say I'm by jugg, what's my quickest way to get to pack? However much easy or frustrating it is to get there is map flow.
And how the zombies spawn in and attack me while I'm moving and how I engage them is game flow.
Hope that clears it up more 🙂
Tranzit has no flow 💀
I dont think it happens in the original ascension map but me and my friends found out that on bo3 if you leave the door closed on the speed cola side of the power switch then have one of you stand at the top of them stairs and the other player stands at the box spawn exactly where power is it messes up the zombies pathing and theyll all gather on the bottom floor of that building... Its not very helpful as you can only kill them with gershs but if you need to do something just stand at these two positions and youve pretty much just paused the game 👍
was that some cold war music at the end? coldwars soundtrack was done SOOOO perfectly.
It's Voyage's intro music.
If IX had fast travel, or the shield was closer to the training spot, it would be considered the easiest map of all time
And see okay with Die Maschine, it takes less than 30 seconds to get from Nacht's roof to PaP without the fast travel, also giving the player fast travel so close to where they spend most of their time completely removes the factor of "its the middle of the round its too scary to leave this spot"
Basically, what your advocating for here is to remove a huge aspect of zombies, for example, when do you EVER PaP in the middle of the round on Ascension? Never, because it's a death sentence, same thing with Origins, and what you're advocating for would completely remove that from the game
Now hearing your issues with SoE, I'm just gonna assume you never realized it's dangerous to do things in the middle of the round, and that you should stay in the open areas until theres only 1-2 zombies left
SOE is one of the easiest maps of all time your critism is I’m not that great at the game so I hate it 😂
I guarantee that lex will react to this video
I hope he does, I think it would answer alot of questions he had
Attack of the Radioactive Thing is a perfect map, but its Easter egg is not fun, IMO
I ain't gonna argue with that one 😂
It's my favorite EE in that game lol
Ah yes, the F word. Great video btw
I love BO3 zombies so much but its game flow can be unbearable, especially on the Zombie Chronicle maps. Play Kino on BO1 and on BO3 and count how many times you’ll get swiped by a zombie from a completely different room when running around.
Sounds like skill issue
10:45 = Skill issue 😂
That is not an argument against my criticisms of the map or game flow.
@@CJSanta L +Ratio
@@fatnakedjimmyneutron I don't understand the disrespect of people in the zombies community towards differences of ideas or opinions. 😕
@@CJSanta lol your opinions fine I was just poking some fun.. I play Verruckt and Shang so tight spacing to me ain't a problem. Don't take it to heart geez
@primis2329 It's hard to tell the tone of a comment vs say, speaking to someone.
I love Verruckt too. It's my 10th favorite map of all time. (Bo3 version)
I bet if BO2 launched with a Map like Mob or Buried would have been better than TranZit; having Tranzit as DLC 2 or 3 would have helped it so much imo
Can't deny that because the game started on such a frustrating note, every dlc map release was an improvement.
Few zombie games only get better with every single map release.
@@CJSanta BO3 almost had the "Got better with every map release" then Revelations came out 🤣
(MrT-)Lex(-ify) out here talking about map aesthetics... While YOU, CJSanta, out here articulating in great depth and detail about map AND game flows 🗺️&🎮🌊🌊
U da GOAT 🐐 LOVE and PRAISE Your content ❤️💞❤️🔥&🙌🙏🙇♂️
lol thanks man 😅
I really do hope he sees this video too, I think he'll get a real kick out of it 👀
@@CJSanta ooo sheesh! I didn't think about the possibility of him making a reaction video to this ❤️🔥😎👉👉
Woah woah woah Cold War was elite
I humbly disagree. The Map layouts were okay for the most part, but the game is far too easy and thematically uninteresting
Thinking about a collab vid with you and Eazy P 40 🤔🎞️
You know what i really liked about this video? The fact that the examples you used weren't the obvious ones that everyone defaults to. Example: talking about multilayered maps?: Die rise. I'm bored of hearing about Die rise
you sound like Ron from GTA (not in a negative way)
*flow*
𝓕𝓵𝓸𝔀 🥴
I think you miss the mark on shadows, why are you trying to run past zombies when you’re supposed to be killing, its narrow to challenge you. I also dont think the narrow pathways are the problem, its more that zombies do too much damage and hit really fast, which is just a bo3 problem. You also blame this on the layout when the layout is completely fine, its narrowness of certain areas. So basically, get gud.
This is under the notion that at all times, at any moment, you could shoot your weapon and always kill a zombies within a second.
@@CJSantaYes????
Flow doesn't matter, all we care is playing the game and have fun Der Eisendrache is better than all Vans*** maps
I love when you talk about attack of the radioactive thing you say it's a circular map and continues with there's 4 teleporters 1 in each corner. Where the f is the corners in a circle my boy
The layout is a circle, that's how it flows when you go around the edges.
So after watching this video your zombie ranking list is still not making sense. With your ranking you quote said SOE had perfect atmosphere, EE and decent side quest. However what kills it is flow apparently because according to this tight spaces and bad tp system. However you the say Dead of the Night has a great system because it has tps each corner of the map to end point and to Pack a Punch. A couple of things don't make sense the first being if just the tps got put into better spots it becomes a top 10 maps because of tps. If that is the case then why is Radioactive Thing 13 there is one TP on the map. Secondly if tps are that much of a criteria and how you can get somewhere so quick so the "flow" is better than it almost sounds like a tp is more important than any of the environment or any of the actual EE's or WW's. Because again according to you SOE is almost great except the flow. Thirdly SOE and DE have tps that take them to Pack a Punch. If this is a such a great innovation then why are they so low. I really think you should re think your list because the significance of what makes zombies good is more than a tp and two what you are saying about how maps flow are not making sense.
Agreed
8:18 IX has one of the best map and game flows of all time, I think you just need to learn how to play it man. Fast travels aren’t necessary for a map like IX because every area is easily accessible from another. I think you’re just overcomplicating it, just try playing the map some more so you can get a better understanding of the layout.
I've played the map since launch, done all the side quests, and Easter egg multiple times. I've even gotten to decently high rounds, too. I know the layout.
It's not a matter of "understand the layout." I do know the layout, and because of that, I see the problems.
I don't think adding a single fast travel from spawn to pack a punch would over complicate the map.
Every area is not accessible from another. If you are in the top if Ra tower, and you need to get to the bottom of Zeus, you have no choice but to run the length of the map in its entirety.
Where you will have zombies spawning ahead of you, including gladiators, brawlers and tigers.
I think infinite warfare, vanguard, cold war, have the best flow. Bo4 is a honorable mention.
Well flow is a map by map basis, there's zombie AI and how they behave which is diffrent from game to game.
Cold war zombies is really really not to my taste, nor my friends' taste. Bar 1(out of 6) zombies player(s)
Flow Rida
I think black ops 2 is supposed to be challenging as a response to people being able to excel at bo1 And WaW.
Dead of the night is too easy…. High round strats are literally aiming a rocket Launcher at the floor in front of silver bullets.
@@thedomainofsealteamaqua You don't have to do that.
@@CJSanta true… but is still the best high round strategy
@thedomainofsealteamaqua Well, so is camping with the servant and mega gobblegums in bo3 but that doesn't really make it fun 🫤
@@CJSanta very true xD
Anyone else think blood of the dead’s flow was too fast?
Tranzit was awesome
Bros complaining about zombies being hard with narrow corners 😂
No, I'm explaining how map flow and game flow matters. The opposite of things being too tight is also a problem, then the maps would be too easy and boring.
I'm guessing you just ignored the entire sections talking about Tranzit and why that maps flow is bad despite there being NO tight corners?
I'd hope if you were going to disagree with what I have to say, you at least pay attention to all of my evidence.
11:15 sounds like a skill issue
Calling out Shadows AND liking Dead of the Night? These are fantastic takes
Skill issue
@firts9600 not an argument, this is discussing game mechanics and map design.
Worst video I've ever seen
How? I'm seriously curious?
I explained the systems clearly and concisely. I showed with visual evidence how the mechanics on each map work and provided comparisons for each map. 😕
I always work hard to put my videos together. Is this really the "worst video" you've seen? Or do you simply disagree with what I said and / or don't understand the concept?
@@CJSanta I like maps based on looks and how much fun I'm having and replayability. That map has some replayability, looks bad, mid wonder weapons, is buggy at times, etc so u would play that map more than shadows, more than DE, more than origins, or more than most of the maps in cod history????
@@srkgalaxy8571 Which map are you referring to? I talked about multiple in this video.
@@CJSanta I'm talking about ur favorite map tag
@@CJSanta it is the worst if people ask me what's the worst YT video I'm telling them this one
Just starting the vid but Foresaken has the WORST FLOW of all time
It's barely even a map, just a bunch of disconnected areas strung together with telporters. Game Flow is okay, but map flow is just not there.