The (Newest) Hans Situation
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Ben and Karen go over the latest Hans controversy with the Saint Louis Chess Club ban and hotel destruction.
Clip with Ben and Karen [02-02-2024]
If you're interested in sponsoring a lecture of your choice, email Karen at karen@atlchessclub.com
Check out Ben's Chessable courses here! www.chessable....
Signup or gift a chess.com Premium membership to get access to their lessons, remove ads, improve your chess, AND help Ben at the same time!! Upgrade your chess.com membership or join! - go.chess.com/fi....
Buy Merch today! ccscatlmerch.com/
Watch live at / itsbenandkaren
Donations are appreciated at: streamlabs.com...
Follow me on Twitter: / ben_finegold
#benfinegold #chess #hansniemman
Look ma, no Hans
BOOO! Good one, but BOOOO!
great song
Hans should get a grip.
"the chances Hans becomes world champion are the same as GothamChess becoming a grandmaster."
THE END
Hans definitely has a better chance of being WCC than Levy does becoming a GM. I mean, for Hans to become WCC only like 20 people have to die and suddenly he's in the mix. For Levy to become a GM, basically every GM would have to die so that Levy is now one of the best players left in the world and can finally get his ELO above 2550 and get his norms.
Well, one is a cheater, so that helps
Levy was a GM though
@@keithnieves4178 ?
"So you're telling me there's a chance..." -Lloyd Christmas
Reputation Gambit (Hans Variation): declined
Hahaha
😂
Bruh 😂
Best one yet 😂😂
I've had to deal with people like this and they will NEVER just say "Yep, I shouldn't have done that, I'll take the consequences". They'll argue about peripheral stuff, in this case the timing, what happened before, I broke this and this but not that, and you're just thinking "come on man". A club invited you to their tournament, put you up in a hotel and you broke a bunch of stuff in the room. Now they're not going to invite you again. Why TF would they? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
At last someone with common sense
3500 elo analysis bro
Because if they admitted they did it and took the consequences, they wouldn't be narcissists.
Any consequences? Can a tournament cancel a player for speeding and getting a ticket on his way home from a game, too? That is way over the top for a tournament organizer to act like it was its property that was damaged (and paid for).
@@Al.2 ? The club partners with the hotel for these events - any participant should treat both spaces equally. Why would the hotel want to keep hosting a player like this? And why would the club want to allow a violent snap-show to keep competing? Speeding ticket is a laughably poor comparison.
The property damage speaks for itself.
the mess speaks for itself
A simple but powerful message 🤣
StLCC employed a sex predator, knew it, and sent him on trips with young girls. Maybe they need to button their pie holes. No one gives THEM flak, huh?
Dang! Beat me to it. Kudos. :)
So a victimless crime that does nothing. Hotels are insured, if anything he made the rich assholes making money for nothing have to pay for once
"I didn't damage any property, I just damaged some property" - Hans Moke Niemann, probably
he sounds so remorseful
Is Moke Woke?
If the point with your comment is that hans
1. Didnt take accountability
2. Isnt remorseful
Then you are wrong. He tried to handle it privately with the SLP Hotel and the SLC Club, he paid a fine and appologised refusely - he says all this in his video on this. He never said he didnt destroy anything, infact he said he did break some stuff.
@@TheFenrirulfrSo Hans re-told events in a way that reflect far more favourably on himself? And you just unquestionably believe his own version of events?
@@ravecrablikewise? How do you know what happened? If this was to go the legal route, lying on a public forum like TH-cam would be against his interests. He knows this, and I therefore think he is telling the truth. Get a grip
"I didn't break any marble, however I did lose my marbles."
3:22 I love the phrasing of "the glass frame of a painting was shattered". As if it was just a force of nature thing that happened completely outwith the fact he broke a bunch of other stuff.
So everyone at the US open is staying at the The Royal Sonesta Chase Park Plaza.... EXCEPT for you Hans, you're staying at the motel 6 on I 70... lol
And they need you to post a $2000 cash bond.
hahaha
Hans' villain arc is developing nicely.
😂👊🏼
Lol watch viva la league... Episode villain arc.
Hahaha 🤣
So he was an ass, but defended himself of being an ass by saying he was being an ass.
All Hans stories are about ass
I think that truthfulness is especially important when it comes to accusations and if they got the accusations wrong it is totally okay for me if he puts the record straight. Also better to be honest instead of denying the obvious (why would the chess club invent such a story from scratch?). Still, the nonchalant and often confrotational way he approaches these things isn't exactly mature.
@@nilsp9426Well, he isn’t mature, but that is common when you are young and feckless.
@@roqsteady5290You’re right, but as a counterargument look how the Indian youngsters (Prag, Gukesh) or Nodirbek behave. They are extremely well mannered and very professional.
He was just an ass, playing an ass, disguised as another ass.
ben absolutely owns gotham chess in the last few seconds, dear god man
It's great. Levy is a total twat.
It's so unnecessary, too.
I love it.
Out of nowhere too. Classic Ben
Levy catching strays jeeeeeeez
deservedly @@jacobs5518
I believe that the wording was that Hans won’t be invited to any invitational tournaments at the club. If the US championship is not an invitational tournament, it doesn’t apply here.
The Chase Park Plaza hotel if within easy walking distance of the St. Louis Chess Club. It is literally just over a block away.
It is a very nice hotel.
Saint Louis is located on the western bank of the Mississippi River.
It was founded in 1764 by French fur traders Pierre Laclède and Auguste Chouteau.
Let's say you invite someone over your house to spend the night. They break a bunch of your stuff but, they apologize and pay for it. Are you inviting them back?
Exactly! 👍
He may pay damages, and an extra bit too. He can apologize, the hotel can openly accept that, and so can the chess club. They can give each other a big hug and a kiss on the cheek. *And then still* it would be completely reasonable for him to not be invited again.
Forgiving vs. forgetting.
This is exactly how I looked at it. It doesn't matter if you paid the "fine" (in this analogy the cost to recover repairs etc). I might stay friends with you if I liked you enough, but you certainly wouldn't get to come back to my house again.
@@AdamGaffney96Exactly. If I break some of your private property then ofc it's your right to get refund so I ain't doing any favour by paying for damage I did.
Depends on how hot she is and what my conversion chances are
*The damage speaks for Hans Niemann.*
Imagine you have difficulties and a bit of a strong personality during your teenage years and 20s and it is all forever on a stage in the internet. I am so happy that my difficult times from then are not discussed in seventy countries in front of a million people.
@@OArchivesX you don't see everyone else falsely accused of cheating otb and dragged through the mud by their legends.
@@TCSyndicaterightfully accused of cheating though
I couldn’t agree more. The internet constantly shitting on Hans obviously speaks more to his haters than him
@@OArchivesX I never said that his personality is good or bad or he is a victim or something. I think that is besides my point anyways. I don't want to be judgemental here. It was just an observation I wanted to share.
I am not a huge fan of his behavior, but I am also not such a big fan of the other extreme either. What Hans lacks in being humble, others lack in self-confidence. The self-deprecating remarks by Wesley So I don't like either. I just wish that things change for the better for all involved.
"a bit of a strong personality". The guy has demonstrated himself to be a narcissistic and manipulative liar. Yes, people with these personalities struggle. And yes, it should be that way, because this behavior is unhealthy for society.
For the record, the anger isn't the problem. We all have skeletons in our closet, mistakes in our past. The problem is the dishonesty in reaction to his mistakes. He doesn't own up to anything, constantly has a victim complex, and blatantly (on account of it being poorly executed so as to be transparent) attempts to subvert the facts of his circumstances. This is what damns his character. It's the reaction to the judgment. He is not contrite but doubles down on the offensive, trying to trick the public. The public doesn't like that. Mystery solved.
"I can't believe that Hans didn't take something well..." LOL - You are Gold GM Finegold!
If self destruction were an olympic event, Hans could be world champion
Nah, he's still a rookie
It's just the start of going down the slope. More trouble, and addiction(s) may come if he cant fix what is hurting him.
Vladimir Kramnik has entered the chat.
Hans’s game is improving … what are you talking about
@@carlosdanger947 some legends hit rock bottom at the very top (i dont mean only chess)
Damn. Even Hans' shadow has been banned.
I'm a little concerned for Ben. It looks like he's being eletrocuted every few seconds, and I checked another video and it's the same. Is everything ok?
Hes being held hostage.
Maybe under the weather I hope he is well.
Could be Tardive Dyskinesia according to Google. Uncontrollable facial tics as side effect of mental health medicine.
@@joshuawall2590 I think he drinks too much coffee and grinds his teeths, I used to do that a lot.
@@joshuawall2590 I have a friend with that. It does look like it
"I didnt cheat... but i did cheat that one time," "I didnt break anything, but actually I did break..."
Hans said he broke something admitted to it's apologized to the hotel paid, and was told he would be able to come back.
@@EnigmaChessYou choose to believe Hans ….. Here are some undisputed facts he cheated numerous times in the past and admitted to some cheating 2 times which was a lie so he a liar and a cheater and while he’s given a second chance he showed some anger management issues….. those who care about Hans should stop defending him and instead give him some good advice because clearly he needs some guidance
@@SuperRma777too late. Hans is too old to be hearing any advice from anyone. He's so far up into his own azz.
Hans becoming chess world champion is like hikaru becoming a descent person those are not destined to be
why is hikaru not descent?
@@bevs9995 dont you know how hikaru is oytside his stream facade ? He was just like hans when he was younger still is. Thats why people avoid him as a person.
@@bomnitoperro9422 no, of course not. ive never met him
@@bevs9995 research a little on the internet. What happens with eric hansen and other gms too there is a video of a gm talking about how hikaru told him he was never going to be anything in life just because he lose a game
Hans definitely never heard the word "no" as a child, because he still acts like one.
Hans accuses SL chess club for inviting old players as if this is a crime. He straight up says they are inviting old players but not him. He doesn't even realize his ageism.
Look guys...we can't jump to conclusions here. Sure he broke some stuff but it wasn't OTB! Also he did this when he was only 20 years old, practically a child!
There's absolute ZERO EVIDENCE that he's ever damaged property OTB!!!!!!!!!!! FREE HANS!
that's the same thing they said when he cheated. "he's just a kid!"
"I didn't burn any property." - Han Smoke Niemann
Or as I always say, "There's no Moke without fire".
I never heard of anybody being banned for property damage off the property.
Like Ben said “ If the St Louis Chess Club wants to ban Hans they can do so “ It’s as simple as that .
@@michaelblankenau6598 They can do that sure but then who is the bad person in all of this???
Besides if attracting eyes to chess is the main reason to events then nobody attacks people like Hans...
Just look at this video. He got 10x the regular views because of Hans and this isn't his best content and by alot.
@@answeris4217>"attracting eyes to chess"
I'm sure SLCC will be fine without Hans.
The way I read the situation, I thought SLCC (or the organizers of the chess tournament he was playing) was paying for his hotel. So they have an obvious stake in this. I would like someone to confirm though
@@ishanjoshi1350 well it was probably definitely known that he was there representing the club and the tournament. Whether they were actually footing the bill or not its their reputation on the line.
chess drama is the best drama.
Netflix and Chess...
You raise a very good point when it comes to the difference between his Titled Tuesday performances and his FIDE tournament performances, especially in blitz. His current FIDE ranking at blitz is 97th.
While I think the discrepancy is surely noteworthy, I want to point out that Daniel Naroditzky`s Online Skill does not reflect his OTB Blitz strength (2644) either. I think they`re both just outliers, imo.
Hans does well in OTB tournaments with no security and does poorly in OTB tournaments with strict security measures
@schizophrenic2558 uncoincidentally that is the case for all the smurfing streamers and I trust none of them. Add his fellow charlotte pre-arranged draw partner Bortnyk to thst list.
@@cooloutac Well, I think given Danya`s public image and the respect he gets from his online peers (like Hikaru and Magnus) it is a pretty safe bet to trust him. I don`t follow many streamers, so I can`t talk about all of them, but it is very unlikely they are all somehow cheating. Online chess requires a different skillset then OTB chess, also the time control is different (even if online games have increment). So it is quite plausible in my opinion.
@@skitzo23 I think they all are. And I refuse to play on the website that even makes such exceptions for entertainment because that just encourages and invites cheating to the platform. I play on the website that puts right in the TOS they make no exceptions for Speed running.
Hans cheats, destroys a hotel room, then annoys the heck out of the St Louis Chess Club with his calls, texts, and emails, then proceeds to play the victim in all of this. The kid needs a babysitter.
The Chase Park Plaza Hotel is an exceptionally nice place. I'm not surprised that they banned him from the hotel. It is disrespectful in the extreme to trash a place like that because you are pitching a fit like a petulant child. The disrespect extends to both the Hotel, and to the chess club who was hosting him there.
I am from a different country and a different kind of sport. We have a pretty simple rule: You can bann someone from the Sportshall/Location the whole year, but you must allow him to participate in a tournament in this location if it is some kind of Open.
Can't wait to bookmark Niemann's 20 minute video next to Kevin Spacey, Michael Richards and Charlie Sheen's "Tiger Blood" video.
"I may have also damaged some property earlier in my career, but it wasn't me this time."
At time of recording Abhimanyu is still 14, so that would've been my answer. (Turns 15 on the 5th of February)
so happy b-day to Abhimanyu!
it's a super GM invitational tournament. Surprising is anyone of Hans' rating would be there at all. Why even make any announcement saying he's not invited? Seems it's just to make headlines.
I thought so too. Then I watched Hans say he gave the SLCC an ultimatum to respond to his concerns by a certain date or he'd go public (but they went public before his deadline).
@@kennethwoods6525 ah that explains alot.
Hans come across as a bit of a wanker and he seems to be the only one who thinks he's not a bit of a wanker lol
What’s a wanker ?
in defense of Hans, these scumbags at the hotelS mark any kind of damage as full purchasing value demage, no matter how minor or no damage at all but in some cases dirty , washable, cleanable the item is. if the evaluation is FOR EXAMPLE 5000 damage it is prolly under one thousand, but they cant allow the culprit to replace ''what he'damaged', because then they couldn't charge anymore.. that is the rule of how things work with hotel damage,, they look after these '' events like a researcher look over with a magnifier glued to his eye.... esentially to replace things A NEW AND FOR FREE esentially
Hans has it in him to play like stockfish
Why do you keep posting jokes like this after all this time? Could you see that the barrage of these comments could qualify as cyber-bullying or at least be a very bad example for others, shaping a toxic culture?
@@nilsp9426 what joke?
@@nilsp9426 no joke, just the truth. The truth speaks for itself.
@@nilsp9426they doing this because he is jewish.
I already reported this kids to the ADL they will get a hard time entering a school or finding a good job for running their mouths against us
Doesn’t apply to public figures.
Is this the prequel to Die Hard?
Die Hard 0 - The making of Hans.
Not a fan of SLCC here, they're being overbearing with Hans, withholding the damages from his prize money, this should be dealt by the hotel and Hans. Also the tone of the letter, in the last paragraph is patronizing, they're in no position to lecture him
Was Hans in room C4?
Jeez.
Watching Hans' youtube there is no doubt - He is out of his mind. He is frantic, manic, & you can feel his unstable energy through the video.
You don’t flush one time and they kick you out…
Ben put St. Louis Chess Club on the map! They better not ban him
I wish you were on more!
lol the mic drop at the end of the video
You can't have a chess match without a couple dark knights.
Honestly, it all seems fallout from the Magnus match and resign follow up. Maybe Magnus did some damage, but he's human as well and felt what he felt.
Han's behavior is not setting a good example for American chess.
There's a difference in skill with a mouse vs OTB... and so on
minimal at best. especially with premoves. more meaningful in bullet.
"I didn't know what they were talking about. I know Hans so that makes sense."
If being a jerk is their criteria then if Fischer were coming up at Hanses age today he would be banned too right?
Hans strategy is to stop playing over the board, and build a narrative to justify that. Then, he'll continue playing interestingly fantastic online.
Hans is a rock and roll legend now, nice...
I met Ben at the sinquefield cup in 2019!
Ben's last sentence was gold haha
At 10:32 the thing about the difference between how well he plays on Titled Tuesday and OTB: There’s the rub.
It's the same thing with Jospem and Lazavik don't perform exceptionally otb
@@EnigmaChess I just checked the FIDE progress. You're right. I think in these big online tournaments they should all play from places with arbiters present with test equipment or something. The honour system doesn't work.
I love Hans. He's like a Bobby Fischer with more rage.
Always rage raaawr
Bobby Fisher said some outrageous things that would make me very suspicious if you liked them. Also Fisher was in another league regarding his chess performance. One of the all time best players who defined how people understood the game for a period of time. Hans is one of many talented and strong super-grandmasters with few features in his play that set him apart from the others.
@@nilsp9426 I think everything Bobby said was accurate, including the comments you are referring to. Sue me.
@@Tasmanaut You know that he endorsed Hitler and accused jews of conspiring against himself? That he denied the holocaust has happened? If so, there are countries in the world where openly endorsing these views in public can lead to you being sued, yes.
Know your role models folks. They might not be who you think they are.
Bobby didnt cheat or lie about cheating
Mic drop at the end GOTHAMCHESS
Ben, can you address if there is an engine that could produce moves good enough to beat Hikaru under time pressure… like, when Hans is keeping up with Hikaru on TT, for 20 or 40 moves with 1-2 seconds per move… can the engines even generate that quickly?
He is better on Titled Tuesday because that is ONLINE. Figure it out.
He’d have to be stupid to cheat now . And that he isn’t .
Hans saying if he could be anyone in the world it'd be Bobby Fischer and then second was Kanye is really being reflected in his behavior
Hans breaking stuff isnt the real reason he got banned but a good excuse to ban him
They get a thumbs up from me lol
How do you know ?
Is Alejandro banned from St. Louis?
Hans seems to be the common denominator in all of Hans problems.
Thrashing a hotel is something that people can lose their entire careers over. Hans needs to get his shit together and learn how to respect other people. Being good at chess doesn't give you carte blanche to act like a complete douchebag.
That’s a bit of a stretch. If you lose your entire career for messing up an hotel room you didn’t have much of a career to begin with
It's ok to ban him for his behaviour but they should also apply the same rules to others chess pros. If Irina Krush really did make that whole in the wall then she should be banned for one tournament as well. It's not that Hans shouldn't be banned because others people do not get banned for their behaviour it more that they all should be banned if they do something like that.
Why would she make a hole. She already has a hole
lol@@imeprezime1285
2024 chess world in a nutshell: by the time ben makes a video on the latest drama, there's a *newer* drama to cover
I distinctly remember the livestreaming hosts at St Lewis chess club joke about players trashing hotel rooms every day; it's almost ridiculous how much they romanticize this kind of shitty behaviour as well as all the very things they accuse Hans of doing. They thrive of fetichising the eccentricities of chess players and the controversy and drama - with livestreaming it became worse: they put a magnifying glass on the player mannerisms, every time someone does something weird they make a big deal out of it; always rubbed me the wrong way and now they decided to be hypocrites as well.
I was this kid's biggest supporter online because I felt the website was wrong for Banning him over magnus throwing a fit for losing. But now I truly believe he's cheating online again to cope for how bad he has been doing over the board, and it's ruining the Integrity of the sport. I regret everything I did and I hope St Louis and the USCF take him all the way to court unlike the Cowardly website.
Now you believe he’s cheating ? Do you have evidence or do you think believing something makes it true ?
@michaelblankenau6598 what would you consider evidence? Are you like the website who thinks 99.5% probability is the only thing acceptable and 99 and under is not? Lmao.... no such thing as 100% bud.
@@cooloutac Don’t need 100 % , bud , but need more than the zero evidence you provide . You spouting about taking him to court shows how little you know about law . Based on that alone , the rest of your drivel can be ignored likewise .
@@michaelblankenau6598 right. 0 evidence. You know when you make claims with no points you are just flailing and conceding to most people reading. reply to some of my points. Do you think it is acceptable for the website not to take action on people they deem 98.9% probable of cheating? And why don't you give me an example of a 1% probability if you consider my points of OTB performance ratings = to 0%. Because like I said, you arguing on the internet to do nothing makes only yourself look just as suspicious. For example I'm already assuming you're breaking the terms of service of the website everyday by using more than one account. Your public comments alone give me a 90% probability on that one. lmao...
He may be banned from St Louis, but he isn't banned from Ben's stream and that's what really matters.
That ending was chef’s kiss
Hi Ben!! Always check your content out. What an amazing story!
Breaking other people's property is unacceptable...i liked Hans and gave him the benefit of doubt with the cheating... but this is just bad behaviour which is childish
Well at least when you talk about Niemann and Kramnik you get at least 10 time more visualizations than your average video
So did Ben's tenure at SLCC not end on good terms or is he just joking about that he may be banned too?
Hans is very smart. I think he has a point about the so-called "shadow ban" you mentioned. You can't just ban whoever you want now because you have to worry about discrimination and things like that.
Maybe Hans thought there were spy devices in his hotel room. He seems paranoid af.
that part at the end about han's world champion chance is the same as levy's GM chance...i actually think it's orders of magnitude less likely for hans to become world champ. if levy for whatever reason dedicated his life to it i think it would be possible...unlikely but possible...hans just has no shot at becoming world champ
Hans Olo was banned because they want Magnus (and other top tier players) to show up. Pretty simple really. Hans paid for the damages and paid a fine. But it obviously runs deeper.
in terms of content, Hans is the gift that keeps on giving.
Hans Niemann forgot to bring
the charger for his butt plug
Why would anyone make that fake account?
I bet it's him too
Hans Niemann deserves an apology from Carlsen, Kramnik, Nakamura and Mr. Rensch.
😂
Who is hans niemann? Is that right?
10:40 Ben is spot on, it doesn't make sense. He's a habitual liar that can never be trusted.
Is he still a child now or can we hold him accountable.
In fact, there is a Red Roof Inn.
How tf is Hans Nieman even relevant? He’s a known cheat and notorious for a poor attitude
Also, studies show that some who play mostly online chess don't always visualize over-the-board chess as accurately and vice-versa.
Has to do with the synapses created while playing chess; whichever is your primary method usually becomes your better method as it sometimes creates a subtle imbalance in visualization. Hikaru avoids this due to his habit of looking at the ceiling when calculating and visualizing, imho.
Who knows exactly what he's seeing; is it a two-dimensional thing, or 3? 😄
I guess the damage spoke for itself.
Allowances can be made for Rock Star Chess Players. St Louis needs to lighten up. Hans brings attention to any tournament he plays in. The fans want to see Hans play in these tournaments. I'd like to see more players with Han's temperament.
Who gives a fk at the end of the day just pay for the repairs and move along. I think it’s great that he has a temper. He’s not hurting anyone leave him be
and thats why you aren't in charge of a McDonald's, let alone anything of importance. Having a temper is fine, trashing your room (that someone else is paying for) because you lost a game of chess is not fine.
Yeah … let someone vandalize your car and as long as they pay for it let them move on . I mean who cares right ?
So saint luis is not FIDE rated? How could FIDE rate if some players are banned?
What? Some players not being allowed to play a a tournament stops FIDE rating them? Your FIDE rating is just your ELO from official matches, if you choose to skip a tournament, does that tournament suddenly not count any more? No.
So what difference does it make to FIDE if a player is banned from a tournament? Their rating can't be affected by not playing...
Does the US chess championship use only USCF or also FIDE?
Hans behaves like an insolent child. It is no wonder that people don't want to deal with him.
as long as he pays for it I don't see any problem, its not like he been throwing chess boards around or something. Whatever happens outside tournament isn't their business
Maybe Levy will take that as a compliment.
Cheating I can forgive but breaking a hotel ironing board? Unforgiveable.
Turns out that when you file a frivolous lawsuit against the 3 largest chess entities, the lawyers of all chess entities say "dont invite him"
Following in the steps of Alekhine who, after losing a game to Gates (Margate?) went back to his hotel room and broke all the furniture.