As a dual citizen, American and German, and someone who was home schooled I fully support this. I was robbed of my childhood. And manipulated to fall in line with it. My mom was a little abusive and neglectful and I was showing signs of it in school, and am pretty certain I was pulled from school to be home schooled so the public school system wouldn't catch on to it. Many kids are abused far worse, but I was abused and neglected still. Anyway homeschooling sucked. My mom was a terrible teacher. Couldn't teach any of the curriculum and I would have to work through it, and than be expected to ask my dad about things I couldn't figure out but he would often be at work. So effectively I in charge of my own education. I also feel I was robbed of a childhood. While other kids made friends, and interacted, learned to do things like sign up for classes, and kind of be somewhat self sufficient in that sense. Other kids had girlfriends, and did things, and had fun. I didn't. I missed all of that. And than finally when I had enough and basically said I'm going to school or else I had trouble judging people for who wanted to use me or not. I couldn't meet people or interact with a lot of people normally. I always felt I was under others. It sort of gave me imposter syndrome in the sense I always felt like half a person who had half the skills of everyone else and had to pretend to be normal. It really has messed a lot of my adult life up. Don't home school your kids please unless its the only way for them to get an education.
There is homeschool for sick children who are not able to attend class everyday.... I was homeschooled the last years because i was not able to sit and walk through a whole schoolday without immense pain
Remember that you are in Germany at any point free to send your kid to a private school and the government will co-finance the attending fees. Religious schools or Waldorf schools included.
We are living in the 21st century. Maybe 200 years ago parents could teach what was needed for life. Not so in 2017. They are neither educated, nor qualified to teach scientific facts or even languages they may not speak themselves. So, there is more then "indoctrianation" that is important. It's about quality. Most important: It is not about the parent's rights, but about the children's rights.
Thomas Kossatz If it's about children's rights then why don't they get to choose to go to school? If going to school is a right so is NOT going to school. Rights don't have to be used. Also who says parents aren't qualified I mean they can be and even if they're not the government should butt out! Education is at YOUR discretion NOT the god damn government's!
@TheBookWorm1718 since public school doesn't make you an professional teacher with 15 different degrees so that you can provide the same level of education, yes, public school doesn't teach you that. It's not its purpose to make you a teacher in every subject.
@@Cacowninja the government has to protect the rights of the children. Every child has the right to an equal education. Homeschooling is never equal to public school. It's the same logic as if with corporal punishment.
Lehrer haben in Deutschland einen Masterabschluss mit vielen pädagogischen Veranstalltungen. Aber Eltern können das besser, weil sie Eltern sind... Zum Glück haben wir eine Schulpflicht.
As a german who was brought up by *very* radical christians, i am incredibly thankfull for mandatory public school. This way, i learned of other worldviews, made friends outside of the cult (i am *not* calling that a church) and around 18 or 19 finally stated to seriously question the beliefs i had grown up with. I would be a christian taliban today, had i been homeschooled.
benjamin lammertz -- Where was the state to protect you from the physical abuse? The fact that you went to school still did not prevent the inappropriate corporal punishment, which was the most damaging. Where was the state to step in and truly protect you.
benjamin lammertz,, So your saying you left and closed the door to salvation from radical Christian parents to be brainwashed by the system,, great move! Obviously it has worked!
What are you talking about, FlowerGirl? Since 2000 it is illegal to hit your children, psychologically abuse them or do other degrading things to your kids. Look it up: § 1631 Abs. 2 BGB But to do something Jugendamt and Polizei need to know and have evidence.They're not telepaths.
JaniceHope : Of course it is illegal to hit your children in Germany! However, those laws did not help to protect Benjamin Lammertz from his parent's abuse. That is exactly right! The Jugendamt must know about it first before it can get involved. What is Germany going to do about the indoctrination of hate, violence and supremacy that happens in Islamic schools and home to protect against "alternative Islamic societies"?
Parents and children belong to eachother, it's a fundemental human bond. It all comes down to who will have the right to indoctrinate the children with their version of reality. And there is no such thing as "human rights". Such a thing does not exist in nature, it's created and upheld by human beings, and those same human beings have their own subjectivity and their own reality. Who decides over who? why? The children do belong to their parents and nobody else. I could forexample say that it's a human right to kill another and you could disagree. It's just subjectivity against subjectivity. The most hateful thing i can think of is leftist anti whites like you who think you own other peoples children, because thats what it essentially means, your subjectivity is forced upon a child through the state masked as "human right". It's bullshit. Everyone is in practice owned by something or someone.
As someone who was homeschooled, I'm of two minds on this. I was able to move ahead rather quickly and even started taking college-level classes my senior year. I felt a more general freedom to work at my own pace when homeschooling. Whether or not that was the actual case is up for debate. However, as an autistic person, I worry at how public school would have affected me negatively. All-in-all, though. I do see the benefit of public education. I just think it will always be touchy.
Regarding the point about public schools being a potential medium for state propaganda: This is exactly why the Bundesländer are given so much autonomy over their education systems. The Nazis heavily centralized the school system and used it to spread their propaganda, so after WW II steps were taken to ensure that a potentially malicious federal government wouldn't have central power over the curricula.
Sounds reasonable, but could the national government at least change the teachers wages to reflect their real results? As of right now teachers in the eastern states get less money for for more work while the opposite can be observed in the western ones.
No, they can't. Teachers are employees of the individual Länder, leading to all kinds of differences - in most states, they're civil servants (Beamte), and in some states, they're not; work hours, pay, and many other aspects of their profession may differ between states. The national government doesn't have any say in that.
Why would anyone want homeschooling ? I mean the parents can just tell them everything they want. Or abuse them. And they also don't realy learn to handle social issues. To all of them claiming that this is autoritarian: What is more authoritarian? A education developed by 2 people or a education organised by a democratic elected group? Yeah. Parents are way more authoritarian than any state education.
I don’t know which country you’re from but American schools are shit, they don’t prepare you for the real world, most students focus on passing than learning anything, and all the good teachers left, so now we're left with people who can’t even do math without a calculator teaching kids how to do math. The myth that homeschool ruins kids social life is false because there are plenty of homeschool kids who can still socialize just like everyone else. I do see your point though but until America improves their public education I’m homeschooling my kids if I ever get any. Fun fact homeschooled kids do better in college than public school kids.
@@nope6908 oh I agree that the school system needs changes. But when we take a look at all the risks that homeschooling has I am not willing to sacrifice security for efficeny. Homeschooling makes it less likely that people will realise that you are abused. Indoctrination is also more likely. Don't know much about your fun fact but I could imagine that there is a selection bias. People that are homeschooled in a bad way are also more likely to have parents that don't value education that mich. This makes it less likely that they will go to colledge. You would also need to take a look at the rate at which homeschooled and people in normal schools want to go to colledge to correct for this selection bias.
@@Jemalacane0 sure but how many people are there? 100 teachers? How many people are at home? In the school you will always have 99 normal teacher if you have 1 abusive teache rthat can cate for you.
@@Jemalacane0 That is true, but abusive parents have far more power over and access to their children than abusive school staff do, and can also get away with abuse much more easily.
I'm not completely certain about Germany but at least in Austria, where compulsory schooling has been around since 1774, there are exceptions, such as disabilities, diseases or disorders that make public schooling unnecessarily hard or even impossible for children.
Alex There are special schools for the special children (with special physical or intelectuell conditions - or they get personal assistance, Heilerziehungspflege).
+Grace Jung Yes, I'm aware of that, but some children with immune deficiencies can't attend school simply because of the high risk of infection, for example. In those cases, homeschooling is in fact permitted, or rather a similar model where the pupils only attend final exams once a year and study at home.
Homeschooling is not totally impossible...you just need to have good reasons for it. Children living in a circus for example are often taught within the Circus at least for the early years, because it makes more sense to teach them the basics this way instead of having them in a different school every few weeks because the Circus keeps moving. If a child is unusually intelligent, special schooling is also possible, or a combination of the child taking classes at a higher level school and having a tutor. It just depends on the circumstances. Most of those parents who complain about compulsory schooling are either religious nuts who don't want their children to learn certain things, or they have decided that the standard school is supressing their oh so precious child but are somehow unable to look into alternatives.
Homeschooling is legal in Austria. It's overregulated, but you don't need to come up with any reasons or excuses. You just have to remember to renew your homeschool permit every year or your children will be forced back into school.
Fun fact, my ancestors started the first teacher and sailors school in pommerania, at that time kids have been schooled by a handicapped former soldier, but as my ancestors realized that these guys just want to benefit on meals (there has been no school, they moved from house to house with thd kids, feed everyday somewhere else). At the moment i can just say it was near Kammin, what is today some km behind the german/polish border and it was after 1550! Informations not found online, i heard that in Greifswald this thing is meantioned in the museum.
Hey rewboss! Nice video man. I may not be a patron, but still id like to suggest this video idea: The German Education system (Hauptschüle, Realschüle, und Gymnasium) It would be a pretty nice video. Greetings from the Dominican Republic!
Easy: (Oh, if you are on Gymnasium for example, you get you Hauptschul-certificate after year 9 and Realschule at year 10) Hauptschule: Old Teachers in Grundschule put all the migrant children here, but also all the children with learning problems. The school ends after year 9 and the certificate is worth almost nothing here, you can barely do any job with it. Generally considered by society as school for asocial idiots, though this is not true at all. Realschule: More "civilized" version of the Hauptschule (though in reality, its bullshit), ends after 10 years, the certificate is okay, though worth much less year after year. Gymnasium: Because of high pressure, you are a failure if you dont visit one. Ends after 12 to 13 years, pretty hard.
And then we come to Berlin, where we only get the Sekundarschule (former Haupt- and Realschule) and the Gymnasium. And where the Grundschule is visited 6 years, instead of only 4 years like every other state (except Brandenburg, which has 6 years too)
We also have the "Gesamtschule" in Berlin which basically consists of both Realschule and Gymnasium. Based on your grades you can advance after the Realschule portion to the Gymnasium portion after the 9th or 10th class (not sure anymore, been quite some time since I went to school and things have changed over time ^^).
Home schooling is becoming more popular in the UK. More often than not it’s due to either poor academic standards or due to the “privatisation” of secondary education ( Academies) removing the availability of certain subjects from their offered curriculum. In the area I now live one Academy trust seems to be in charge of at least 80% of the available places for 11 to 18 year olds. Parents want choice in in this case they haven’t got any choice ( we still have the 11 plus examinations in the area but the nearest Grammar School are at least 10 miles away) A friend of mine pulled both her sons from State Education. The eldest boy has just passed 4 of his 5 GCSE’s including Maths and English a year early at the age of 15 and will be starting his A level subjects next month. The younger son wasn’t performing well in a state primary school ( very intelligent boy held back by children of a lower academic ability) he easily passed the 11 plus exam and returns to state education next month at a localism Grammar School.
The critical thinking bit is the most important one. Content-wise, quality of home-schooling can vary greatly in both directions. It's perfectly possible for home-schooled children to receive a better education on the class contents - I know plenty of well-educated, home-schooled Americans. HOWEVER, one thing home-schooled students often have in common is that they generally tend to stay in their home county or state, never venture abroad for an extended period of time, almost exclusively make friends with people from a similar background and don't participate in political or public discourse. They don't learn to debate or to critically assess their sources. Often, being forced to do so in college or university is a serious obstacle for them and has led to many of my acquaintances actually dropping out. There are exceptions, of course, but generally, home-schooling seems to narrow one's horizon while allowing for a greater range of class quality with few means to correct shortfalls by choosing other classes/teachers. Public schools normalize class quality somewhat and encourage students to learn proper critical methodology - in a way, rebelling against the teacher is part of the intended outcome. Personally, I am happy with the German system and actually think that it's still a bit too lenient on "alternative" schools like the Waldorf schools.
The problem with your argument is that it is based on the assumption that you cannot get a "basic education" when you are homeschooled. Where do you get that information from? Who ever said homeschooled children are not educated? This is a form of circular reasoning which goes like this: Only schools can provide a basic education. If you don't attend one, you cannot get a basic education. Homeschoolers do not go to school, therefore, they are denied a basic education. They force feed this type of circular reasoning in government indoctrination camps otherwise known as schools, where you sit in a room all day, do what you are told, think what they tell you to think, and behave like they decide you should behave.
Thank you for your horrid punctuation. You have given homeschoolers even more justification for doing what they do. Also homeschooled children then to be better educated and less likely to drop from college than their public counterparts. On top of an innumerable other reasons based on studies.
It really depends on the teachers whether or not they indoctrinate the children or actually teach the critical thinking. Most of them do none of it. If a teacher threatens you because you debunk his statements with facts and tries to turn the class against you, then this is clearly a form of indoctrination. I should have reported that guy.
TheLoki7281 That's good for you. I made quite different experiences. By the way, have you ever asked yourself whether or not it was critical thinking what they've taught you or if they just taught you what critical thinking is.
well, the very defenition of critical thinking would be hard to teach with out actually laying the basics for it now would it? get rid of moral thinking, get rid of ideology and try to see the world as pure as you can. then look at the facts and draf your opinions etc. from there
TheLoki7281 In general, I can agree with you, but you forgot one important part: Scepticism. Being sceptic not only about the own conclusions and results but also about the facts used for the objective analyses. Scepticism is important for filtering facts and reevaluating opinions already formed which are essential parts for maintaining critical thinking.
You obviously had a bad experience. Regrettable. Of course, many children and teachers also have a warped perception of their past. Or superimpose a hundred memories with one bad one. Teachers are human beings, and -- I dare say -- quite a lot of them are either not capable of doing their job or have given up along the way. Nevertheless, it is an insurmountable fact that the overwhelming majority of parents have *no qualification whatsoever* to teach their children. Not to mention that it is arguably much harder to learn critical thinking from one person than from many. Since teachers usually switch every few years, basically every student understands that their teachers have slightly different approaches, methods, skills, inclinations, perspectives, etc. This already *is* the first step to realising that teachers are fallible. If you get taught by your parents (and under their authority to boot), you're less likely to come to this realisation until much later. Last of all, the argument about the social environment seems painfully plausible to me. I'm not saying school environments are always kind and nurturing and supportive. Not at all. But even contrarian relationships teach children skills.
I have an American highschool diploma from being homeschooled. Will Germany accept that for when I go job hunting there? I'd hate for three years of retail experience to be overlooked just because I dared to learn at home in a country that allows it.
Something I’ve always been curious about: What is done about children with severe illnesses/disabilities? Like kids with cancer or other terminal/serious illnesses or disabilities that might make it hard for them to be in school or require a lot of time in hospitals? Do they still force those kids to go to school? ( just curious, I’m from the US where homeschooling is allowed. I’ve heard of people here homeschooling their kids with autism and such.)
Yes. Usually there are one or two teachers for all children at every hospital. I think it is mandatory for children to go there if they stay longer than 4 weeks in the hospital and their condition allows it. For kids with (mental) disabilities there are dedicated schools with specialized teachers. Sometimes they try to integrate disabled kids into normal classes with the support of "sozial workers". The idea is that the disabled kids can experience a normal environment and the other kids learn how to interact with disabled people without inhibition. Quite a good system I think.
Keyboard runner that is a good system! It’s nice to keep instilling that sense of normalcy despite health conditions and all. And kids need to learn right :)
Bookworm You think someone who has attended school is equally qualified to do a thing as someone who went to university _for several years_ to train for this particular thing _and_ is certificated by the state? Please explain your thinking there. I'm genuinely curious.
Robespierre supported the idea that all children go to school and the state has to make sure that more education makes people more critical of the church. - Cheers, Heinz
The government really doesn't give a shit about indoctrination and this would never work in this country anyway. Teachers talking about politics often tell their disagreement with the government. The government does not run the schools, they just pay for it. No teacher is bound to any political party or believe. German schools are very diverse. Teachers are out of all political spectrums. This is not some third world dictatorship. "Indoctrination" is certainly not a valid point.
Homeschooled children are at a disadvantage IMHO. At normal, public schools, children get to interact with their peers. This trains all kinds of social skills. True: Once the kids are older they might interact with the other (now more mature) teenagers. But can you really risk your kids not developing "ordinary" social skills? I think not.
The things is that most children and teenagers are fucking idiots. I hated elementary school and I actually did independent study in high school because my peers were a bunch of fucking idiots. Did fine in college and had no issues making friends and socializing there. You don't need to go to a public school to learn how to interact with people.
Responsible parents who homeschool will make sure their child has regular and frequent interaction with his/her peers. Now emphasis on "responsible": Since there is no real way to verfiy this it would be wholly the parents' decision, which is why I'm against homeschooling. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good (or even the best) option for any child ever. Just that the chances of it not being a good choice are too high to risk it imho.
I actually can't believe I am arguin in favour of homeschooling. I had a horrible time in school. The thing is that there is a very good contra argument to be made. Just look at America and how homeschooling is used there. True, it can be done right, also true: your peers are mostly a bunch of hormon-driven morons who are experimenting on each other in terms of social engineering and morals. But idiot parents make homeschooling a bizare and dangerous proposition. It's IMHO why public schools exist in the first place.
Is the year 1919 as the formal introduction of compulsory schooling for all of Germany really the year compulsory schooling was introduced or is this the legal finalization of a de-facto already introduced system?
Legal finalisation. In the German Empire education was a states right too so in prussia for example compulsory schooling was introduced as early as 1810 and finalised in 1848.
Small hint: There are religions, but there is also truth, the truth. And there is the "rational" thinking, but also facts that are ignored. No one wants to be a "conspiracy theorist," right? Therefore, the majority despises the truth. And that's a fact. Conspiracy is the normalityof this world and always was. There is no excuse for easier-living ignorance. And certainly none for ignorance of God, who has revealed Himself to us.
@Levo GAMES Oh du Ärmster! Wenn du noch nichts aus deinem Leben gemacht hast, musst du das dringend ändern! Selbst ich, die aus dem Ausland kommt, hat eine gute Schulbildung genossen!
Well, some people might argue that internet friends are even better friends than real life friends. Surely, not every "facebook friend" is an actual friend. But the ones you have contact with daily are. Because honestly, where's the difference? You can talk to them about the same things as with your real life friends. The only difference is that you can't touch/hug them. And even that can change after a while when people decide to meet up for the first time.
You can't go out with them, play with them, drink with them, do crazy stuff to get their sexual attention (we are talking about teenagers in puberty here) ... all this that "internet friends" can't do.
As an autistic teenager, I am very GLAD that I was not only homeschooled, but in fact self-taught from kindergarten to 4th grade age. This has nothing to do with “indoctrination”, and *everything* to do with the fact that I learned significantly more advanced content (especially in STEM) than I ever could’ve at a regular school
I feel bad for homeschooled children to be honest. They're almost bound to end up dumber than everyone else through no fault of their own. There's a reason why teachers are actually educated to teach, and the vast majority of people homeschooling children aren't educated in that field at all. Being a cop, a carpenter or banker doesn't make you remotely qualified to teach children. Even if we assume a parent took 10 different degrees in teaching, it would still be awful for the child due to the complete lack of social training. I mean ffs, we even talk about socializing our puppies when they're young.. And they won't have half the social life a random child will. The child will have absolutely no clue how to make friends, how to judge a good person from a bad person, how to treat other children, how to treat teachers, how to keep a normal conversation with a random person going, how to solve a conflict with another person, how to read other people in general etc. etc. etc. It's just an awful thing to do to children.
Also, they never get in contact with any worldview but their parent´s. Wich is exactly what homeschooling parents want, of course. All the "freedom of choice" stuff is just an excuse to deny their children said freedom of choice (or at least the nessesary knowlede to make an educated choice).
Then you got lucky, that your parents weren´t complete lunatics, like mine where. I am damn happy, that their worldview wasn´t the only one i learned about, when growing up. Because otherwise i´d be crying "deus vult!" right now, and not meaning it as a stupid meme...
dsjones It of course depends on the circumstances. You might want to homeschool your children if all the schools are terrible or dangerous. I personally wouldn't have wanted ky parents to home-school me.
benjamin lammertz -- What was the name of their religion? Isn't there a zwölfer thing? Also, you were not homeschooled, and are glad and the other guy was homeschooled and is glad. Banning homeschooling is not the answer, especially since there is no evidence it is harmful. Merely saying it "would have been harmful had you been homeschooled" is not evidence.
allowing homeschooling doesn't have to mean that parents get to teach anything they want; in countries where homeschooling is explicitly allowed, it's usually also regulated. I think homeschooling should be allowed and regulated; parents should have the right to decide what situations and enviroments their kids get exposed to.
They do have the right...if they don't like the state schools, they can always send their child to an alternative school (the options start with "let them learn in their own speed" approaches over religious schools to schools for children with special needs). They are just not allowed to isolate the child and control every bit of knowledge they are exposed to, because that is considered abuse. Children need to experience different view points and they need to socialize with other children. Honestly, if you have seen some of the nuts which are rallying against the notion of mandatory schooling, you might see it differently. From the German point of view visiting a school is the right of the child - that's how the whole matter with mandatory schooling started, to force parents to allow their children at least a basic education instead of forcing them to work on their farms all the time from a young age.
Here in Denmark, homeschooling is permitted, provided the parents/guardians teach the children the same curriculum as in regular scools, and the students MUST take the same exams as the other, "shool-schooled" kids.
But it is a quite different kind of homeschooling: the curriculum is still set by the school and the teachers, you interact with the teachers and classmates online. It's not a situation in which mom and dad tell you what to believe and can't answer most of your questions, because they don't know or don't want to know, and you don't even know what a classmate is.
As an American who was homeschooled, I am 100% against it. My parents homeschooled me as a privilege because they thought it would be better. It had nothing to do with religious beliefs or them being anti public school, as I did end up going to public school once I was a teenager. I hated homeschooling because it was so isolating. My parents still took me to homeschooler groups and different community events, but you still never make real friends at those things. And the fact was, no one wanted to me my friend because I was a "weird homeschooler". Eventually, I was around 11 or 12, and my older siblings all were in school and both my parents were working, and I was literally home alone. Eventually I just had a break down due to my depression from the isolation, and my parents finally put me into school. That shouldn't have to be the case. Homeschooling was so isolating and I didn't even learn much. My parents pushed certain subjects but not others. So, when I entered school, I was very advanced for my grade in math, so my classes were pointlessly easy, but then my parents taught me no history and I was totally lost. I didn't even know what 9/11 was. Yeah, it was bad. But still, the social isolation was the worst. While I've developed out of it as an adult, for most of my childhood I was extremely socially awkward. Also, as soon as I went to school, everyone already had best friends which they have known since elementary school, so I never made any true and lasting friendships. Which has left me, still to this day, with nearly nobody I consider a friend. So yeah, home schooling has left a lasting scar on my life. To anyone who actual read all of this: If you are considering home schooling.. don't.
Hi Rewboss, I think there are a few points that you are missing in your video. First of all, there are two different forms of home education: • Homeschooling - which rebuilds traditional school at home with schedules, textbooks and sometimes even blackboards, report cards et cetera • Unschooling (German: Freilernen) - which rejects indoctrination, fixed curriculums and conventional teaching. Kids are free to be themselves and learn what they want and how they want. Here in Germany, the two approaches are quite separate although some families are pursuing mixed approaches. It seems to me that in public perception, unschooling is little known (everybody just seems to talk about homeschooling), so I'm not surprised that you've missed the latter. However, recent estimates say that about 3000 kids federation-wide are currently unschooled, and that number is growing rapidly. This also means that unschoolers already outnumber homeschoolers which raises the question why homeschoolers are still receiving more media coverage. If you want to learn more about unschooling, check out this documentary: th-cam.com/video/oyazXm4OJxQ/w-d-xo.html Personally, I believe that compulsory school in Germany as it is now is not just a law, it's a dogma in two ways. First of all, it's a dogma because many people are unable to seriously question the present system. Everyone thinks that education doesn't work without a teacher who has a teaching degree, a brick-and-mortar school building, a fixed curriculum, textbooks and force. And then, there's those strange prejudices about home- and unschoolers being socially awkward, not educated et cetera. Ok, it's true that unschooling is a bit of a subculture, so getting in touch with it can lead to culture shock but I don't think it hurts children. The second way in which compulsory school is a dogma is the effect that compulsory school has on scientific research. If there were no school today, and somebody proposed to establish it, there would probably be concerns that (compulsory) school might be harmful for children. Therefore, it would be neccessary to conduct a scientific study which evaluates the matter. Put 1000 kids in school, allow another 1000 to stay at home, then look at the results. Unfortunately, such a study was never conducted in Germany and under present school laws, it would be illegal to conduct such a study. Therefore, it's not possible to obtain scientific evidence that proves the “(compulsory) school is good” claim right or wrong. And that's what makes it a dogma.
Freilernen My children are the adult products of homeschooling, unschooling, private schooling, and public schooling here in America. I am delighted to learn from you that the concept of "freilernen" even exists in Germany. These families must be flying under the radar and risking so much, so how they accomplish this is a big question for me. I have a lot to say about the subject of "schooling" and Mark Twain himself is reputed to have said in one of his insightful quips: "never let your schooling get in the way of a good education." I am rather pleased with my children's education and the adults they have turned into, and there is so much to say, including the fact that none of the four systems is perfect -- each one is flawed -- hey, sort of just like people and life generally. You covered a lot, but I will add this: I had children so I could raise them myself, enjoy them, and be close to them. My methods allowed me to do just that!
Unschooling could plausibly allow children to preserve their connections with other children, like being able to be just as able to go to the park. If anything it would give them more ability to go meet with other children. It would be hard to say it would be abusive, especially if you could get someone experienced in a given subject to ask a child of a given age questions that a child of that age could reasonably be expected to know and they could answer correctly just based on whatever it is that this unschooled child has learned in whatever way is best for them.
This family was originally granted asylum by an immigration judge. The Obama administration challenged this and the family lost in court but was offered Deferred Action, which allowed them to live and work in the US, but they have no path to citizenship.
Homeschooling in the US works if the parents do the work to educate their children, though not all of them do so. In my state, homeschool kids are allowed to participate in non-academics like music and art at the public school, and also participate in school sports, so they do get some socialization. However, the oversight in academics is very casual. My neighbor homeschooled two of her children until high school, when they chose to attend the public school. They both graduated at the top of their respective classes. The mother apparently taught them how to learn!
Dogs yes, cats no, that would be a waste of time. And dog schools are more like trainers that tell you how to handle a dog and make a dog listen to your orders etc. It is just named school.
I would say that children have a right to make own experiences without being under parental surveillance 24/7. This prevents indoctrination by the parents. Children are not the parents' property.
I had biology teacher that was realy religious. But still she did explained evolution. Only what whe skiped was human anatomy, in 8th class, when some started having sex.
4 years late but... thats not really "skippig it" in 8th grade sex ed should already have happend, soooo... it was likely just not part of that years plan
I don't really know what schools are like in Germany but in America they fucking suck. Also I'm guessing that Germany doesn't allow independent study either? If so, that's pretty sad. I'm atheist and my parents are weird cultists or anything but doing independent study for high school was the best decision ever. I got to graduate earlier and I didn't have to put up with idiotic teenagers and the fucked up school system any more. Loved college though. I understand mandatory education but not allowing anything other than public schools seems like a bit much.
we do have private schools but since they have to teach the same basics like the govermetn schools and the high quality, the goverment schools already supply, they are not that commen. for people with very high stats in logic and stuff, there are extra schools or you can just skip a class or even two if you are good enough. but again.. its uncommon. also there is the possibilty to leave school after the 9. or 10. year (with hauptschul- /realschulabschluss) and then get highr education by the fernschule (far-school) or abendschule (evening school) wich both costs a little bid (as far as i know.. never had to inform my self about them). the fernschule sends you the material to learn and then you just have to take the tests to prove you understoot it. but you dont realy attend a school. the abendschule on the other hand is a special school in the evening, were you can work over the day and then educate your self in the evening. also there are several other methos and possebilitys for dropouts, haupt/realschüler and others with a lower education to aquire a higher one even after finishing school. fachhochschule for example.
Compulsory education is a good thing, but can also be a tool for such indoctrination as the NAZIs wanted it just depends. However, homeschooling has always been so weird to me and the only time I've heard of it is since I've lived in the U.S. as I'm from Colombia.
There is another reason for school. It rates childen and give them certificates, so businesses later can know that about the skills of people who want to have a job. Parents can´t give trustworthy certificates to their kids, and this is harmful to them, even if the parents are teachers, even if they know what they do.
First: When you apply for a job, all they want to see is the diploma you got when you graduated. The diploma however, can be obtained by sitting the final exam as an external candidate; No need to spend 12 or 13 years in jail. (There are issues of un- and homeschoolers being denied external access to diplomas due to ongoing “educational offenses”) Second: There are some businesses which don't want to see diplomas any more (e. g. Deutsche Bahn AG) because they feel that the diploma doesn't really tell anything about the applicant's real abilities.
All of the comments argue on an individual base. But every system has it's own flaws on an individual base and also it's positivs. Just read the comments from +benjamin lammertz , +gnawer shreth or +Your Reality Check But there is also an effect on the group and society. And depending on what you want as government on or the other is better. A schoolsystem is not about an individuum. it is about the society.
@@robfriedrich2822 The Nazis literally had laws specific to Jews, and I don´t mean the kind that might have made a Jew ride in the back of a tram. The Nazis suspended the provisions in the constitution, including the ones that would have made it a rule of law society and one without discrimination.
Most people are against homeschooling or afraid of homeschooling just because they don't know much about it. But basically your channel is the epitome, the very essence of homeschooling. Informal unstructured yet still educational and very thorough. And at the very least enough to get a passing grade in a formal class. (In your case a German studies class). Things don't have to be taught in a classroom or from a textbook in a structured formalized way to make it memorable to a student. And in most instance it doesn't . You cover history, geography, social studies and grammar. It's all interconnected so you can't truly miss anything. And that which you don't know your research and learn in order to teach. Parents are more than capable of teaching their own children. If I can repair the brakes, change the oil, rotate the tires on my vehicle why would someone threaten to repo it unless I took it to a mechanic instead. Homeschooling parents don't want to churn out uneducated children anymore than I want a broke or unsafe car. So we both have an invested interest in not screwing up.
While yeah, some homeschooling parents do have a desire to educate childrens with their own way, but nowadays it's more of sort of channel to child abuse and indoctrination something. So i thing that homeschooling should be regulated so as not harm child's development. But that just a last resort. If your school system isnt sucks, school is your option.
I don't understand why they always complain about being taught evolution. I don't know how it is today, but when I went to school 10 years ago the curriculum had placed theory of evolution as a topic to 13th grade Biology. I did not even have Biology anymore, because I chose Chemistry. I think it is still a subject that is taught shortly before graduation.
I have currently Evolution as a ten year at the Realschule, the first Thing we did was sharing options. After that my Teacher told us, that we are free to think that we want but we are in a biolagy cours and we have the Evolution. A classmate still ask why he needed to learn this things.
I am for Home Schooling, not everybody can do it. But if you can do it (your wife) then the result is spectacular. Strong family bonding, interest based curricula, multiple languages. You can teach your children coding, engineering whatever you want, targeted And not to be disrespectful, if you want to give advice on how to educate children, I need to see your track record. If you haven’t had to deal with a wife and children, the education system, supporting your kids financially and having the emotional bond, then I can not take your opinions seriously.
Home Schooling can have advantages, certainly if the parents have the time and necessary skills (or money to acquire these by proxy). But I think the state would have the obligation to check if the parents a) *do* have the qualifications and b) achieve results. Both would be necessary as assurances that the child's actual interests are being realised. Home school, if allowed, could only be allowed to the benefit of the child -- not that of the parents. _ What I could imagine is that a child is being taught (compulsory) at a special school for kids being taught at home (partially) maybe twice a week -- just to make sure the fundamentals are covered, to offer an alternative viewpoint, to ascertain the child's wellbeing. The rest of the week could be planned out by the parents as they see fit -- though they would still have to teach the children skills worth learning. And to be clear, I'm not skill-shaming here. I'm not even against focusing solely on languages, or sciences, or even the arts. But some skills seem less fit for school (driving a bicycle, philately, astrology) than others.
1) In school you not only learn the subjects but also social skills, you make friends and develop your own sense of identity, you learn how to interact with people and how they interact with you. This is much more important than learning coding or engineering, which is something you can learn in uni if you even want to pursue a job that requires that. 2) Just because homeschooling can work out well, doesn't mean it will most of the time. In fact, people that would want to use homeschooling, would use it to teach their kids with backwards ideas, like religious indoctrination or political propaganda of some sort. Most parents can homeschool their child well but most parents prefer to send their kids to school because it is I) far easier II) most likely better and III) because of point 1) up top; while those that will use homeschooling, will most likely use it not to teach their children something that they cannot learn in school (which they can do in their free time even if the child already goes to public school) but to NOT have them be taught something that public schools teach so that they can abuse them with their own backwards ideas.
YOU WERE ABUSED. DOES NTO MEEN YOUR CHILD WILL. don't use your experience or your perspective to take revenge on the schools . YOUR JOB IS TO ENSURE THEIR BEST BENIFIT NOT YOURS. they NEED SOCIALIZATION. just cus you ain't good at being social does not mean your children are NOT. so please for gods SAKE ASK THEM WHAT THEY WANT. YOU DONT HAVE A MORAL RIGHT
I think I understand why homeschooling is outlawed in Germany, but I can't say that I totally agree with it. To me, idea of homeschooling is appealing because it gives children the opportunity to have a more one on one personalized education, rather than pumping them through the school system with the rest of the latest batch, and hoping they fit the mold. Too many children do poorly in school and are led to think that they're dumb not because they are, but because the school system can't accommodate their unique circumstance. This is often not the fault of the teachers, whom I prefer to assume do their best with what they're given. Rather, the institution of education and the way we "process" children is imperfect in many ways. There is no easy solution to this, but homeschooling can be a good option for capable and willing parents. I got to know one homeschooling family growing up, and those children excelled in math, reading, and the arts beyond what was expected from public school children of the same age. Furthermore, they didn't miss out on peer interaction because the parents got them involved in public extra circulars, such as theater and sports. I realize that this family is not representative of the whole of homeschooling families, but neither are radically religious families. I think it may be unwise to deny parents and their children what could be a better option, simply to avoid some people exploiting the option.
You have to consider that in Germany children are more seperated after ability, so there may not be one on one education, but it is still more individualized. I understand that there are parents that rather have their kids homeschooled for educational reasons but it just opens too many doors for bad people.
TheBookWorm1718 It is true that those and many more scandalous activities do occur in rare cases. However, I think the argument is that it is easier to monitor and prevent such activities in a public institution, than in a private household.
Have you been on a public school? Most of this sounds like rare individual cases and I can't imagine the gun thing at all. We are talking about the US after all
@TheBookWorm1718 there was a horrible scandal. A group called the "zwölf stämme" homeschooled their children, 40 of them, and abused them mentally and physically by for example hitting or restraining them until the police saved them.
To be allowed to teach children in higher classes you are required to have some sort of university degree . It appears crazy that this roughly 5 additional years of education on a subject can be just replaced by parents wanting to teach the subject. Where Germany is really lax is that for Kindergarden the requirements to teach there are really low compared to other countries. Also Kindergardens are often payed for by the state, but organized by the church. Therefore indoctrination to Christianity starts before school in Germany!
No, as short answer. There is two skills. Teaching and the subject you are teaching. In my experience rougly two thirds of teachers I have met were competent enough (teaching+subject). Young teachers often make up for not yet gained teaching skill with enthusiasm,, latest theory knowledge and time spent for preparation. For parents I would put that competent enought percentage into the single digit area. Most of them would be hard pressed to know enought about a subject to see how little they know. (Dunning-Krueger at its finest).
Children, going to "goverment schools", are not taught by the goverment, they get taught by a bunch of people with their own beliefes (teachers). A school will always provide more veriety than homeschooling.
then provide some studies. Also, if the american public school system is as bad as you make it sound, its no wonder untrained parents can do a better job. that just shows the problem, and if the solution for politicans isn't "fix the system" because homeschooling works better (which i doubt would be the case with a better public education system), thats giving up on public schools. If the system is that broken in the USA, fine, but it's not in germany, therefore homeschooling isn't needed since it provides almost no benefits here, and not nearly enough to outweight the risks. Here, it is a messure taken to protect the rights of the child
@@ottonormalverbraucher7835 that just means they cant push their agenda on you, they must provide a neutral look on things while the teach you, they can however choose their topics to some degree freely. They will still have their own beliefes, and you will notice that in their classes, they just cant tell you what to vote for, what is right or wrong in current politics etc. because THAT woudl be indoctrination, allowing someoen in position of authority to tell impresionable young people what to think, what is right, or what to vote.
Democracies rely on three duties of their citizens: Compulsory education, tax liability and conscription (Schulpflicht, Steuerpflicht und Wehrpflicht). Compulsory education should make sure that children learn how their country "works" by means of get a living there and how to participate politically actively or passively. So there are some contents in the genuine interest of state and if this is considered as indoctrination, everybody has to live with. In my opinion parents demand unconstitutional practices when they deny visits of information officers of the Bundeswehr at school.
Check out what Sweden did to homeschooling parents of Dominic: they permanently removed him from their parents' care by yanking him away on an airplane. The parents never see their son now, after being forbidden visitation because the mother cried too much during the initial visitations -- which were for a couple of hours every two weeks. It has been years now since they have seen him and they have no idea where he is. Obviously, forcing children into foster care because of homeschooling is extremely harmful to children! What kind of a government would do this to children and their parents? Police state? How can you force children to learn what the government decides they will learn?
4 years late, how can you force childrens to learn what their parents think is "right"? who is better suited, a Group of well educated, trained professionals, trained especialy to handel and educated childrens(i do not argue that many teachers are flawed or incompetent here btw) or 2 People whos only qualification in many cases is that they are the parents
@@glendathegoodwitch6987 no, i put exactly as much faith into parents as they deserve.... aka nothing if it comes to providing a balanced, factualy, and good, education. and i dont pretend the school system is perfect it has its flaws... but it being a sign of a police state isnt it(at least where i live in germany). its also not "the goverment" who decides what you learn here, the goverment gives guildlines based on the exams, etc. for each year entering school up to their graduation. The teachers then decide how they teach these topics, (within reassnos) and so on. Teachers are also not ALLOWED to show political allegiance to any party, or on any current poilitical topic here(obviously its not 100% "done" by teachers as its just impossible, but the intention is to have a, as politicaly unbiased education, that includes directly and openly criticising the goverment in history and social class if the topic leads to it(which it did for my class once) without the taecher saying "this is evil and has to be condemmed" but us simply getting the facts, doing resaerch, and coming to that conclussion. Removing your child from your care for child neglect is a valid thing to do, and neglecting(or refusing) to send your child to school when its legaly required to attend a state certified school(or whatever the actual term is) is child neglect. Children have a right to education, and parents removing that from your child(and most homeschooling parents arent interested in teaching their child correct things, but to indoctrinate them) some teachers may be great people, who realy want the best for their child, but then supplement the school education, dont try to replace it. Teach your child it on the side, help with homework, explain things ot them, dont rob them of social interaction(regardless of how shitty school can be, and i talk fro personal experience), and so on
Homeschooling is great, I have a question for all you school supporters, how much of what you were taught 4th grade and onwards was actually useful? The only useful skills they teach at school are basic math, and language, in fact even if that information was useful, basicly everyone forgets about it. Forcing a child into a chair for 5 hours a day while shoving useless information for 13 years to them is not a basic education, it's child abuse.
Well, i learned about computer science, which I know use. I learned about legal issues, which makes me somewhat prepared. I learned about history, sience, other cultures and economics, which broadens my horizon. I learned about math, with develops critical thinking. I learned about how to argue, how to write certain kinds of essays, how to analyse texts. I learnt to speak English.
the thing is, School is meant for a few things, one of which is "teaching them how to learn" your school may have failed at it, but my schools where pretty decent at that, i learned how to read documents, how to extract usefull information from it, how to present said usefull information in a short form. how to organize my work(ok, this was forced on me to learn by myself so i can actualy work) if you consider the only "usefull skills" they teach at school basic math and language, then you failed school hard. history is important, so we do not repeat the mistakes of the past. Advanced Maths is important, if only to develope critical thinking, and problem solving methods. Science is important for OBVIOUS reasons. The thing is, a 10 year old wont know whathe wants to do when he is 18 and has to work, so school teaches them the basics ina lot of different subjects, so they can decide what they want to do and have a basic knowledge to start persuing that path when the time comes. My teacher always said "the specifics of what we teach may not be important but the basics of it will be"
While yeah 90% of the lessons aren't even actually useful, but most homeschooler parents are probably evangelicals and conspiracy believers. How to make mainstream school better? convince the politicians to care and think hard about that thing.
It is a child's right to have an education. Okay, but a right is not mandated. Also, I could hardly think of a worse place for someone to develop social skills than a public school.
Assuming that kids have the right to go to school, that right won't be respected if their parents homeschool them. I think it's not the good reasoning, but it seems that's how they see it. Like you say you can develop social skills in so much different ways...
The American Public Education System was directly imported from Prussia (modern day Germany). This model of "free and compulsory" education was designed by the Prussian Emperor, in order to generate obedient workers and soldiers who would not question his authority. In the 1830's, American Lawmaker Horace Mann visited Prussia and researched its education methodology. He was infatuated with the emperor's method of eliminating free thought from his subjects and designed an education system for Massachusetts directly based on these concepts. The movement then quickly spread nationally. Horace Mann said, "The State is the father of children." Do you want your children growing up in total submission to the State?
School does not teach critical thinking. When we were taught about Europe and the EU, we had to think about benefits that the EU provides to us. We never learned anything critical about the EU, and when I asked a critical question, it was downplayed and I was told to stick with the stuff that matters for the tests. My little sisters class had to create posters about refugees and how they bring wonderful parts of their culture to our country. Mind you that her class consists of easy to manipulate 10-11 year olds. I remember that we had almost a whole year dedicated to the cruelties of Nazi Germany, Socialist East Germany and the two World Wars. We learned almost nothing about the eras before that. We had more than 5 excursions to GDR, Nazi Germany and World War museums and concentration camps, while we had one or two excursions to other places. They even had a "debate round" with holocaust survivors where we basically had to listen to their stories and then we were GIVEN question that we could ask them. One or two students were allowed to make up own questions. It is currently debated to teach sexual education classes even earlier, like as in 3rd grade or something. These kids are 8 years old. They don't need to know about how gay relationships work and how many "genders" there are (which is also part of what they want to teach). They also want to push the concept of a "day-school" which means the students will be required to attend from 8AM to 5PM or so. They clearly want to keep the kids away from their parents so that they can teach them all that sick stuff. I think parents should be allowed to teach their kids, however not unconditionally. The parents should be required to report what they have taught, and they should send the home-schooled students to attend normal exams.
4 years late but. for the first part then your school or teachers sucked. In my school, we DID think criticaly about the EU, we talked about bad things the EU did, or negatives about certain actions(like expansion etc) the whole "Sister had to create posters and what they bring to our country" so what? they got a task, to think about good things people from other cultures bring to us? whats bad about that, unless the teacher was maniacly and sayed "there is nothing bad about them ever" i dont see how that is a bad thing?. The Nazi shtick, thats once again a problem with your teacher, and or the curriculum as a whole in your state, not the School system itself. once again, my Experience, we learned during Abitur,(aka 3 years of 2 semesters each so 12 "units" how our teacher called it)while yes, we had a slightly larger ammount of untis dedicated to Nazi germany(i think it was 2.5 units instead of the normal 1-2 units per topic) we learned it choronologicaly, we started with the french revolution, then imperialism, Went to the german empire and WW1 even the Julycrisis was part of that year, thought about the "schuldfrage"(aka who was at fault for WW1) (and we had to write an essay on it. regardless of what our own opinion was, as long as the essay was factual where it had to be, and good in explaining your viewpoint it was marked acordingly well), we went to weihmar and how the constitution among other factors like the finance crisis and hyperinflation caused the trust in the systme to errode and lead to nazi germany, we handeld nazi germany, not from a "war" aspect, but from the ideological aspect, what where the nazis, what did they stand for, how did their system "work"(aka führercult etc) we then handeld the Cold war, the Cuba crisis, we handeld the beginings of the EU(the montanunion) what the EU did well, how we profit from it, what it costs us, criticisim of the EU, problems the EU may be facing right now, problems the EU had in the past, whatever its good or bad for the EU to expand. before that, i had talked about Nazis 3 times in history classes.... a lot of times i know, but i am a special case, i switched schools 4 times so i just happend to catch that school that was just about to start talking about Nazis when i switched.
furthermore, unless the "push" towards "all day school" makes it mandatory for every parent to use it, its just a option parents can take if they have to work. a way to ensure their children are safe, and around people of their age while they work, i was in after school programms that are basicly all day school in all but names, and i loved it, i got help with homework my parents simply could not provide do to their work schedules, i was able to hang out and play with my friends from school for longer. just because its called "all day school"dosnt make it bad while i mostly agree that being 8 years old is a tad early for sexual education, i do not see it as a problem per say, if the lessons are done in a good manner, it does not hurt an 8 year old to know gay people exists(infact, i think its better for them to know it early so that they do not feel conflicted later if they figure their own sexuality out) furthermore, telling them that there arent just "males and females" isnt hurtfull either. its helpfull, it teaches accepting people for who they are, not what they are
@@weberman173 I'm not getting into a lengthy debate about details. In the end we all have different experiences and viewpoints. I believe my point originally was that I'm not particularly delighted about the direction the school system is taking. On the point of home schooling, I do believe it should be at least an option. A free society shouldn't fear freedom.
Childabusers? Really :D Homeschooling keeps benefits to children who stuy at own time and better than public school I was homeschooled just one year and I learnt a lot of things my future mates didn´t know. I was far away from them. And again...childabusers...are you serious?
Germany has different types of schools (including Waldorf, Montessori etc.) for the different types of students. Homeschooling is unnecessary. And one reason why mandatory school attendance is also important is that it allows other adults to have an eye on the children, to detect possible signs of abuse. Children that are homeschooled, with no other adults to check up on them, are at a higher risk of abuse because there is so little way to observe what they go through.
since i accedently deletet my comment i was going to write, i just rederect you to this artikel: www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-it-is-illegal-to-homeschool-in-Germany-If-yes-why there especially the second comment from Gertrude Martin put it all realy good together
USA > Germany. We have parental rights. Our prepubescent kids aren't forced to learn sex positions or be handed out condoms at school. The land of the free. May it never change 🇺🇲
@Gotcha B1tch I would hope that, as a teenager, you don't have any children of school age. I'm not buying the story about 11-year-olds being given condoms; but even if that was happening in the US, it's never happened in Germany. I don't see anything wrong with being told that there's nothing wrong with being gay, unless you think that homosexuality is somehow a choice.
@@rewboss Actually I was given condoms in 5th grade in Germany. It was part of 2 or 3 days of sex education. After that everyone in class used these condoms as balloons and it was fun :D
School is a psycological concentration camp. You are forced to socialize with people who you almost have nothing in common with, you are educated by scholars who you can not relate to, your head is brainwashed with lies that is only benefical to the authoritres and their supporters, your time is constantly wasted with your dependency to wait for teachers and assesments, you get manipulated by people to prepare for a career that distracts you from the real important things in life and of course it is boring. From my experience, only a few things that I have ever learned from school would I concider useful
Forcing you to send your kids anywhere is absolutely wretched and immoral. Not only are they taking the kids though force if we dont hand them over, they also come and steal our money through force to keep paying for that shitty useless public school. That same public school our children end up being bullied, traumatised or drugged for being bored... And calling it ADHD
As german 1) schools dont teach critical thinking. Teachers award parrot like behaviour when pupils are able to recite what the teacher taught them and if a pupil dares to question the books or teacher he is punished with bad grades. As example, it should be that way - the teacher doesnt immediately tell the students the facts but aids them discovering the answer for themselves,a rgues with them and leads them to the correct answer. Instead of just telling them and expecting them to repeat. In math you dont memorise what 3434+12 is. you learn how to get to the right answer instead of being told the answer immediately and be expected to repeat whenever you are asked 2) the german schools are, outside bavaria, a mess. We have Abiturienten who literally cant even read and write. ok few but it happens. Pisa shows us our lack of education in schools and the school system is based on authority of the teacher which shouldnt be. 3) i recommend you watch some criticism by Richard David Precht on the german school system. We produce workers that no company wants to hire cause they dont have any real life skills. They may know a lot of stuff they will never need in their job but dont know how to wipe a floor. 4) My biggest beef with the school system is that the stuff children are taught is outdated by like 60 years. When i talk to my kids what they learned in school i need like 3 hours a day to get them right and fix the lies they have been told in school. Examples: dinosaurs had feathers, birds didnt evolve from dinosaurs they ARE legit dinosaurs, similiar humans ARE apes, columbus wasnt the first european to discover america, there even was a stable traderoute to america 500 years before Kolumbus, Napoleon wasnt small he was 178 and for his time even slightly bigger than the average and so on and so forth... physics students tell me the hardest part oft heir study was the first semester when they had to basicly forget everything they were taught in school cause all of that was plainly wrong. like gravity - masses dont attract each other, they fold the space around them and fall towards each other. i wouldnt insist on homseschooling my children but hell do i wish schools would at least teach factually correct stuff..
There is much wrong in this post: 1. Critical thinking: alone the fact that pupils are taught the 'scientific method' already includes teaching of more critical thinking than many parents would do. But yes, it's not trained (enough), but at least taught. 2. PISA itself is flawed, and before i say something wrong, there are good videos and texts around, easy to find. Doesn't mean that our school system isn't flawed too .. but too many people (unfortunately our politicians too) take PISA way too serious. 3. Absolutely correct. 4. Oh well, here we go: SOME Dinosaurs are by now known they had feathers, still needs more confirmation that most or all did. Birds DID evolve from Dinosaurs, that doesn't mean they are no Dinosaurs anymore. Pretty much the same for humans, who are part of the branch of primates called apes, and i have never heard anyone (except inteligent design idiots) arguing that humans are not part of this branch. And about gravity: masses DO attract each other, folding the spacetime is the prevalent and so far best idea to answer the question HOW they do attract each other. The big misunderstanding with 'folding space' is often that people take it too literally and try to apply it as it were in our every day perceivable 3-dimensional world. There is so much wrong with our school system and it should be criticised, but using flawed arguments doesn't help.
1) the scientific method is usually not taught, dont know where you went to school but i dont know any german who was taught it specificly, actually most were as said, punished if they dared question anything and were rewarded for just repeating whats in the book. 2) i agree Pisa has many flaws but just like the weather report its not made to be 100% accurate but give you a general idea. its hard to argue that the scandinavian countries arent way ahead. 4) i agree we havebnt confirmed that all dinosaurs had feathers but from what we know now they likely had them - excluding ofc those "dinosaurs" that arent actual dinosaurs but (monitors? Warane) like Dimetrodon. i often hear people say that humans are humans and not related to apes but only sharing an ancestor that was neither ape nor human - somewhat correct but also somewhat misleading. Actually my biology teacher made fun of the idea that humans are related to apes and that this was the argument opponents of Darwin made.... 4.1) the term attract is misleading though. If masses would attract each other like say magnets do,the universe would look very different and the moon would have crashed into the earth long ago. As you say, people get the wrong idea, and in my school folding of space was never even mentioned.
1.) I dont know where you are from, but at least I was taught in the scientific method. Almost every time we strated working a new subject we were given the problem, a bit of raw data and an hour of time to figure it out. Some of the teachers had no idea of what they were teaching but others were straight up excellent, especially some of the teachers for science- and social economics. I had great discussions with my politics teacher who gave extra points to students who caught him telling opinion and raised awareness if we did not. We spent hours and hours reading articles and comments on actual political issues, pinpointing their point of view, cheking the arguments and how to rip them apart if possibile. 2.) PISA is problematic because the achieved score isnt worth anything until you compare it with others, which means you have to set a standart not implementing cultural, economic or language issues. But instead of improving education as a whole the focus seems to be more on fitting those specific PISA requirements, leaving everything not in these standarts even further behind. Nobody doubts scandinavia is far ahead in these things. 3.) agreed 4.)It is pretty likely that feathers predate the dinosaurs and are more of an ancestral trait, though not being expressed in every species. Alligators e.g. still have the ability to produce feather specific kreatin without having any use for it while being genetically pretty far away from species that evolved into birds. Humans: Why is it misleading? It is the correct scientific term.
Back when I was at school, teachers actually tried to teach us critical thinking. For instance, this meant that teachers would bring up alternative approaches to education in class and have students debate the pros and cons. Yes, we discussed homeschooling (in particular, the Romeike case) and Summerhill in class. We also watched “Dead Poets' society”. But looking backwards, my impression is that even though teachers tried to teach critical thinking, students were not really able to seriously consider other approaches. When we did Summerhill in school, the only person in class who was capable of considering that Summerhill might actually work, was the teacher.
the state has their own version of reality, and the parents have their own. Moral is subjective, which means whatever value you put on whatever variable, be it subjective or objective is in the end all up to opinion. So you are 100% completely and absolutely dead wrong. In my opinion the state is teaching marxist, anti white ideology and most of it is not based on science either, why would one ever give up your childs soul to such a totalitarian machine? it started with the nazis, and it seems that leftists like to keep those authoritarian aspects living for their own benefit. I could say every child has a right to be taught conservative values, and if you disagree you're evil and need to go jail. Same goes with anything else. Science and objectivity. Who decides that science is objective? Who can be trusted? And who owns a child? Who decides who owns a child? Who is closest to a child? the answer is easy, the parents. A child is the blood of their parents, and the family unit is a fundemental human bond that is absolute. Collectivism vs Individualism. A free individual is free from being ruled by a much more powerful state. A states indoctrination is much stronger than that of a parent, which is much more dangerous.
Gender mainstreaming education for school beginners is one reason for home schooling. And about "critical thinking skills": I have the impression, that it is much more "fake critical thinking skills"
We are often told to make our own point and if I'm in disagree with my German teacher they say, try to change my mind. And Lots of exercises go this point: A Student said: "----" Do you agree or Disagree with the statment? We have to make our point on the Theme. I ask alot, always thinking about that my teacher says, and say if I disagree or dont understand they statment and try to make my point in class discussion, I argure with my mother over things. I learned to always make my own mind
It's a fundamental human right that is being violated. I had my choice of country to raise my family, Germany was crossed off early because of their restrictions on home schooling.
The US tend to put liberty/freedom above all else. Germany's constitution ranks it third, after human dignity and physical integrity. While not technically pertinent in any non-abstract sense, that's the basis of the German system, built on learnings of the past 200 years (and, more importantly, the first 50 of the 20th century). The US system is already pretty dated in comparison - it was an alternative to monarchy, not to the weaknesses of democracy. Why is this relevant to schooling? Well, in my experience, children in the US are generally treated as secondary, even subservient to their parents. I was shocked when I heard that phrases like "yes, sir/ma'am" are actually fairly common in some areas. In Germany, children's rights typically outweigh those of their parents. That means: The child's right to receive a public, neutral, peer-reviewed education outweighs their parents' rights to choose how their children are educated. Dignity, in this case, beats freedom. Turning that argument around, one could say that home-schooling violates a fundamental human right as well - the child's right to a guaranteed standard of education. It's mostly a matter of perspective.
Citation needed. No other country's curriculum is as obsessed with making sure again and again that the atrocities and overall horribleness of the Nazi regime are understood (and for good reason!). The groan from students whenever the Nazis' crimes come up in history lessons is practically a meme.
Macron recently said in the speech that the US, unlike most European states, is big on freedom but not so much on justice. I think he is right. In this particularly case the right of the children to a proper education is more important than the freedom of the parents...just like Germany just recently decided that the right of the children to not get a serious illness is more important than whatever hang-ups their parents have about vaccinations.
Es gibt Religionsunterricht oder Ethik, aber nur wenn ein Lehrer dafür da ist. www.schuleunderziehung.de/870-Religions-unterricht/915-Rechtsgrundlagen/9962,Erlass-%22Religionsunterricht-an-Schulen%22.html
Technically, creationism is just learned at religious section and some other things. if the country doesn't have that in their curriculum, it could be it doesn't.
@@DrachenKaiser Die Wahrheit ist keine Religion, Gott ist keine Religion, Seine Schöpfung auch nicht. Was außer der offensichtlichen Wahrheit bleibt, das zu lehren wäre - es sei denn, man will seine Kinder einem System so gefährlicher wie dummer Lügen aussetzen?
I think having to submit your kid to government indoctrination if you do not want it flies in the face of freedom. The very idea that your children belong to the state to whom you must submit them for several hours a day, five days a week . . . .preposterous!
They're not property, they're human beings. The very idea that a parent should just be able to do whatever the fuck they want to with/to their children is what's preposterous. The children have the right to an actual education and not some safe space at home where their nutty parents can teach them all kinds of horseshit. Actively ensuring that your child gets ignorant should be a crime. You're fucking up their life because of your own nonsensical views, opinions and beliefs.
The same as every other school as they are required to do so or they don't count as schools. Plus extra courses in Islam, I imagine. And what would the parents of the kids teach them if they would school them at home?
??? While there are a few "Koran Schools", they are not what we are talking about here since they are only after-class schools where religiouse Muslims send their kids to. These kids still have to visit a normal school just as their non-muslim classmates, and they also get at least the opportunity to get another view of the world, if they accept them or not is another thing. And actually, the compulsary schooling prevent these kids of solely learning Koran without any other further education.
The real problem here is that many Muslim communities have a quite radical religious belief that they pass on to their young. Mandatory schools are great for teaching those kids different values.
They're still in the US? Thank God....
still
As a dual citizen, American and German, and someone who was home schooled I fully support this. I was robbed of my childhood. And manipulated to fall in line with it. My mom was a little abusive and neglectful and I was showing signs of it in school, and am pretty certain I was pulled from school to be home schooled so the public school system wouldn't catch on to it. Many kids are abused far worse, but I was abused and neglected still. Anyway homeschooling sucked. My mom was a terrible teacher. Couldn't teach any of the curriculum and I would have to work through it, and than be expected to ask my dad about things I couldn't figure out but he would often be at work. So effectively I in charge of my own education. I also feel I was robbed of a childhood. While other kids made friends, and interacted, learned to do things like sign up for classes, and kind of be somewhat self sufficient in that sense. Other kids had girlfriends, and did things, and had fun. I didn't. I missed all of that. And than finally when I had enough and basically said I'm going to school or else I had trouble judging people for who wanted to use me or not. I couldn't meet people or interact with a lot of people normally. I always felt I was under others. It sort of gave me imposter syndrome in the sense I always felt like half a person who had half the skills of everyone else and had to pretend to be normal. It really has messed a lot of my adult life up. Don't home school your kids please unless its the only way for them to get an education.
There is homeschool for sick children who are not able to attend class everyday.... I was homeschooled the last years because i was not able to sit and walk through a whole schoolday without immense pain
Remember that you are in Germany at any point free to send your kid to a private school and the government will co-finance the attending fees. Religious schools or Waldorf schools included.
even though those schools should be abolished
Sadly religious schools have to bend to false gospel nowadays
We are living in the 21st century. Maybe 200 years ago parents could teach what was needed for life. Not so in 2017. They are neither educated, nor qualified to teach scientific facts or even languages they may not speak themselves.
So, there is more then "indoctrianation" that is important. It's about quality. Most important: It is not about the parent's rights, but about the children's rights.
TheBookwarm. Nice try, but obviously s strawman argument. Try better next time.
Thomas Kossatz
If it's about children's rights then why don't they get to choose to go to school? If going to school is a right so is NOT going to school. Rights don't have to be used.
Also who says parents aren't qualified I mean they can be and even if they're not the government should butt out! Education is at YOUR discretion NOT the god damn government's!
@TheBookWorm1718 since public school doesn't make you an professional teacher with 15 different degrees so that you can provide the same level of education, yes, public school doesn't teach you that. It's not its purpose to make you a teacher in every subject.
@@ThomasKossatz present an argument of your own then
@@Cacowninja the government has to protect the rights of the children. Every child has the right to an equal education. Homeschooling is never equal to public school. It's the same logic as if with corporal punishment.
Social skills - partly why not getting into kindergarten too late is also important.
Lehrer haben in Deutschland einen Masterabschluss mit vielen pädagogischen Veranstalltungen. Aber Eltern können das besser, weil sie Eltern sind... Zum Glück haben wir eine Schulpflicht.
naja, viele Lehrer sind selbst behindert aber viel mehr Eltern sind das auch
As a german who was brought up by *very* radical christians, i am incredibly thankfull for mandatory public school.
This way, i learned of other worldviews, made friends outside of the cult (i am *not* calling that a church) and around 18 or 19 finally stated to seriously question the beliefs i had grown up with.
I would be a christian taliban today, had i been homeschooled.
benjamin lammertz -- Where was the state to protect you from the physical abuse? The fact that you went to school still did not prevent the inappropriate corporal punishment, which was the most damaging. Where was the state to step in and truly protect you.
benjamin lammertz Did your radical Christian parents "slay and be slain for the sake of Allah" and "Kill the infidel wherever they find him"?
benjamin lammertz,, So your saying you left and closed the door to salvation from radical Christian parents to be brainwashed by the system,, great move!
Obviously it has worked!
What are you talking about, FlowerGirl? Since 2000 it is illegal to hit your children, psychologically abuse them or do other degrading things to your kids. Look it up: § 1631 Abs. 2 BGB
But to do something Jugendamt and Polizei need to know and have evidence.They're not telepaths.
JaniceHope : Of course it is illegal to hit your children in Germany! However, those laws did not help to protect Benjamin Lammertz from his parent's abuse. That is exactly right! The Jugendamt must know about it first before it can get involved. What is Germany going to do about the indoctrination of hate, violence and supremacy that happens in Islamic schools and home to protect against "alternative Islamic societies"?
that comment at the end though XD
Children are not property of their parents!
They Nobodys property. they are free human beings with human rights
Parents and children belong to eachother, it's a fundemental human bond. It all comes down to who will have the right to indoctrinate the children with their version of reality. And there is no such thing as "human rights". Such a thing does not exist in nature, it's created and upheld by human beings, and those same human beings have their own subjectivity and their own reality. Who decides over who? why? The children do belong to their parents and nobody else. I could forexample say that it's a human right to kill another and you could disagree. It's just subjectivity against subjectivity. The most hateful thing i can think of is leftist anti whites like you who think you own other peoples children, because thats what it essentially means,
your subjectivity is forced upon a child through the state masked as "human right". It's bullshit. Everyone is in practice owned by something or someone.
Nor are they the property of the school system.
As someone who was homeschooled, I'm of two minds on this. I was able to move ahead rather quickly and even started taking college-level classes my senior year. I felt a more general freedom to work at my own pace when homeschooling. Whether or not that was the actual case is up for debate. However, as an autistic person, I worry at how public school would have affected me negatively. All-in-all, though. I do see the benefit of public education. I just think it will always be touchy.
Regarding the point about public schools being a potential medium for state propaganda: This is exactly why the Bundesländer are given so much autonomy over their education systems. The Nazis heavily centralized the school system and used it to spread their propaganda, so after WW II steps were taken to ensure that a potentially malicious federal government wouldn't have central power over the curricula.
Sounds reasonable, but could the national government at least change the teachers wages to reflect their real results? As of right now teachers in the eastern states get less money for for more work while the opposite can be observed in the western ones.
No, they can't. Teachers are employees of the individual Länder, leading to all kinds of differences - in most states, they're civil servants (Beamte), and in some states, they're not; work hours, pay, and many other aspects of their profession may differ between states. The national government doesn't have any say in that.
Why would anyone want homeschooling ? I mean the parents can just tell them everything they want. Or abuse them. And they also don't realy learn to handle social issues.
To all of them claiming that this is autoritarian:
What is more authoritarian? A education developed by 2 people or a education organised by a democratic elected group?
Yeah. Parents are way more authoritarian than any state education.
I don’t know which country you’re from but American schools are shit, they don’t prepare you for the real world, most students focus on passing than learning anything, and all the good teachers left, so now we're left with people who can’t even do math without a calculator teaching kids how to do math. The myth that homeschool ruins kids social life is false because there are plenty of homeschool kids who can still socialize just like everyone else.
I do see your point though but until America improves their public education I’m homeschooling my kids if I ever get any.
Fun fact homeschooled kids do better in college than public school kids.
@@nope6908 oh I agree that the school system needs changes. But when we take a look at all the risks that homeschooling has I am not willing to sacrifice security for efficeny. Homeschooling makes it less likely that people will realise that you are abused. Indoctrination is also more likely.
Don't know much about your fun fact but I could imagine that there is a selection bias. People that are homeschooled in a bad way are also more likely to have parents that don't value education that mich. This makes it less likely that they will go to colledge. You would also need to take a look at the rate at which homeschooled and people in normal schools want to go to colledge to correct for this selection bias.
@@emilsinclair4190 I hate to tell you, but school staff can be abusive too.
@@Jemalacane0 sure but how many people are there? 100 teachers? How many people are at home? In the school you will always have 99 normal teacher if you have 1 abusive teache rthat can cate for you.
@@Jemalacane0 That is true, but abusive parents have far more power over and access to their children than abusive school staff do, and can also get away with abuse much more easily.
1:30 lol why does the "Ritter family" fron Stern-TV come to my mind? :D
I'm not completely certain about Germany but at least in Austria, where compulsory schooling has been around since 1774, there are exceptions, such as disabilities, diseases or disorders that make public schooling unnecessarily hard or even impossible for children.
Alex There are special schools for the special children (with special physical or intelectuell conditions - or they get personal assistance, Heilerziehungspflege).
+Grace Jung Yes, I'm aware of that, but some children with immune deficiencies can't attend school simply because of the high risk of infection, for example. In those cases, homeschooling is in fact permitted, or rather a similar model where the pupils only attend final exams once a year and study at home.
Homeschooling is not totally impossible...you just need to have good reasons for it. Children living in a circus for example are often taught within the Circus at least for the early years, because it makes more sense to teach them the basics this way instead of having them in a different school every few weeks because the Circus keeps moving. If a child is unusually intelligent, special schooling is also possible, or a combination of the child taking classes at a higher level school and having a tutor. It just depends on the circumstances. Most of those parents who complain about compulsory schooling are either religious nuts who don't want their children to learn certain things, or they have decided that the standard school is supressing their oh so precious child but are somehow unable to look into alternatives.
Homeschooling is legal in Austria. It's overregulated, but you don't need to come up with any reasons or excuses. You just have to remember to renew your homeschool permit every year or your children will be forced back into school.
Fun fact, my ancestors started the first teacher and sailors school in pommerania, at that time kids have been schooled by a handicapped former soldier, but as my ancestors realized that these guys just want to benefit on meals (there has been no school, they moved from house to house with thd kids, feed everyday somewhere else).
At the moment i can just say it was near Kammin, what is today some km behind the german/polish border and it was after 1550!
Informations not found online, i heard that in Greifswald this thing is meantioned in the museum.
Hey rewboss! Nice video man.
I may not be a patron, but still id like to suggest this video idea:
The German Education system (Hauptschüle, Realschüle, und Gymnasium)
It would be a pretty nice video. Greetings from the Dominican Republic!
It's "(die) Schule" not "Schüle". The plural is "Schulen".
If you are interested I can also give you a brief breakdown of the German education system.
Easy:
(Oh, if you are on Gymnasium for example, you get you Hauptschul-certificate after year 9 and Realschule at year 10)
Hauptschule: Old Teachers in Grundschule put all the migrant children here, but also all the children with learning problems. The school ends after year 9 and the certificate is worth almost nothing here, you can barely do any job with it. Generally considered by society as school for asocial idiots, though this is not true at all.
Realschule: More "civilized" version of the Hauptschule (though in reality, its bullshit), ends after 10 years, the certificate is okay, though worth much less year after year.
Gymnasium: Because of high pressure, you are a failure if you dont visit one. Ends after 12 to 13 years, pretty hard.
Celrador yes! if you can, please do so.
And then we come to Berlin, where we only get the Sekundarschule (former Haupt- and Realschule) and the Gymnasium. And where the Grundschule is visited 6 years, instead of only 4 years like every other state (except Brandenburg, which has 6 years too)
We also have the "Gesamtschule" in Berlin which basically consists of both Realschule and Gymnasium.
Based on your grades you can advance after the Realschule portion to the Gymnasium portion after the 9th or 10th class (not sure anymore, been quite some time since I went to school and things have changed over time ^^).
Home schooling is becoming more popular in the UK. More often than not it’s due to either poor academic standards or due to the “privatisation” of secondary education ( Academies) removing the availability of certain subjects from their offered curriculum. In the area I now live one Academy trust seems to be in charge of at least 80% of the available places for 11 to 18 year olds. Parents want choice in in this case they haven’t got any choice ( we still have the 11 plus examinations in the area but the nearest Grammar School are at least 10 miles away) A friend of mine pulled both her sons from State Education. The eldest boy has just passed 4 of his 5 GCSE’s including Maths and English a year early at the age of 15 and will be starting his A level subjects next month. The younger son wasn’t performing well in a state primary school ( very intelligent boy held back by children of a lower academic ability) he easily passed the 11 plus exam and returns to state education next month at a localism Grammar School.
The critical thinking bit is the most important one. Content-wise, quality of home-schooling can vary greatly in both directions. It's perfectly possible for home-schooled children to receive a better education on the class contents - I know plenty of well-educated, home-schooled Americans.
HOWEVER, one thing home-schooled students often have in common is that they generally tend to stay in their home county or state, never venture abroad for an extended period of time, almost exclusively make friends with people from a similar background and don't participate in political or public discourse. They don't learn to debate or to critically assess their sources. Often, being forced to do so in college or university is a serious obstacle for them and has led to many of my acquaintances actually dropping out.
There are exceptions, of course, but generally, home-schooling seems to narrow one's horizon while allowing for a greater range of class quality with few means to correct shortfalls by choosing other classes/teachers. Public schools normalize class quality somewhat and encourage students to learn proper critical methodology - in a way, rebelling against the teacher is part of the intended outcome. Personally, I am happy with the German system and actually think that it's still a bit too lenient on "alternative" schools like the Waldorf schools.
Haven’t you ever heard about worldschooling ?
You are the one having a narrow vision !
this aged well....
There was homeschooling during the pandemic but that didn't change the law, am I wrong ?
Why did they go to the US to seek asylum when there are many countries in the EU (including the UK at that point) that allow for homeschooling.
gettting a basic education is a fundamental right in germany. denying your kids this right is a from of childabuse so homeschooling is ilegal.
The problem with your argument is that it is based on the assumption that you cannot get a "basic education" when you are homeschooled. Where do you get that information from? Who ever said homeschooled children are not educated?
This is a form of circular reasoning which goes like this: Only schools can provide a basic education. If you don't attend one, you cannot get a basic education. Homeschoolers do not go to school, therefore, they are denied a basic education.
They force feed this type of circular reasoning in government indoctrination camps otherwise known as schools, where you sit in a room all day, do what you are told, think what they tell you to think, and behave like they decide you should behave.
Thank you for your horrid punctuation. You have given homeschoolers even more justification for doing what they do.
Also homeschooled children then to be better educated and less likely to drop from college than their public counterparts. On top of an innumerable other reasons based on studies.
Psyche
With these kind of petty insults, it is no wonder everyone refers to you as a mental midget.
Psyche
It is unfortunate that your mental midgetude highlights the inadequacy of the German school system.
Psyche
You appeal to authority and diplomas only underscores your inability to think on your own.
Blood hell this is really scary that they don't want their kids to learn about science and history seriously what is wrong with theme
It really depends on the teachers whether or not they indoctrinate the children or actually teach the critical thinking. Most of them do none of it.
If a teacher threatens you because you debunk his statements with facts and tries to turn the class against you, then this is clearly a form of indoctrination. I should have reported that guy.
what are you talking about? my teachers were all quite happy to teach critical thinking
TheLoki7281 That's good for you. I made quite different experiences.
By the way, have you ever asked yourself whether or not it was critical thinking what they've taught you or if they just taught you what critical thinking is.
well, the very defenition of critical thinking would be hard to teach with out actually laying the basics for it now would it? get rid of moral thinking, get rid of ideology and try to see the world as pure as you can. then look at the facts and draf your opinions etc. from there
TheLoki7281 In general, I can agree with you, but you forgot one important part: Scepticism. Being sceptic not only about the own conclusions and results but also about the facts used for the objective analyses. Scepticism is important for filtering facts and reevaluating opinions already formed which are essential parts for maintaining critical thinking.
You obviously had a bad experience. Regrettable.
Of course, many children and teachers also have a warped perception of their past. Or superimpose a hundred memories with one bad one.
Teachers are human beings, and -- I dare say -- quite a lot of them are either not capable of doing their job or have given up along the way.
Nevertheless, it is an insurmountable fact that the overwhelming majority of parents have *no qualification whatsoever* to teach their children. Not to mention that it is arguably much harder to learn critical thinking from one person than from many.
Since teachers usually switch every few years, basically every student understands that their teachers have slightly different approaches, methods, skills, inclinations, perspectives, etc. This already *is* the first step to realising that teachers are fallible. If you get taught by your parents (and under their authority to boot), you're less likely to come to this realisation until much later.
Last of all, the argument about the social environment seems painfully plausible to me. I'm not saying school environments are always kind and nurturing and supportive. Not at all. But even contrarian relationships teach children skills.
I have an American highschool diploma from being homeschooled. Will Germany accept that for when I go job hunting there? I'd hate for three years of retail experience to be overlooked just because I dared to learn at home in a country that allows it.
Just try it.
If you can prove experience your diploma will likely not be a big issue.
Something I’ve always been curious about: What is done about children with severe illnesses/disabilities? Like kids with cancer or other terminal/serious illnesses or disabilities that might make it hard for them to be in school or require a lot of time in hospitals? Do they still force those kids to go to school? ( just curious, I’m from the US where homeschooling is allowed. I’ve heard of people here homeschooling their kids with autism and such.)
There are schools in hospitals for this exact case.
Keyboard runner really? That’s amazing!
Yes. Usually there are one or two teachers for all children at every hospital.
I think it is mandatory for children to go there if they stay longer than 4 weeks in the hospital and their condition allows it.
For kids with (mental) disabilities there are dedicated schools with specialized teachers. Sometimes they try to integrate disabled kids into normal classes with the support of "sozial workers". The idea is that the disabled kids can experience a normal environment and the other kids learn how to interact with disabled people without inhibition.
Quite a good system I think.
Keyboard runner that is a good system! It’s nice to keep instilling that sense of normalcy despite health conditions and all. And kids need to learn right :)
Bookworm
You think someone who has attended school is equally qualified to do a thing as someone who went to university _for several years_ to train for this particular thing _and_ is certificated by the state?
Please explain your thinking there. I'm genuinely curious.
Robespierre supported the idea that all children go to school and the state has to make sure that more education makes people more critical of the church. - Cheers, Heinz
The government really doesn't give a shit about indoctrination and this would never work in this country anyway. Teachers talking about politics often tell their disagreement with the government. The government does not run the schools, they just pay for it. No teacher is bound to any political party or believe. German schools are very diverse. Teachers are out of all political spectrums. This is not some third world dictatorship. "Indoctrination" is certainly not a valid point.
fynnlucavideo especially because teachers are not allowed to voice their political views. They always have to remain neutral in school
Homeschooled children are at a disadvantage IMHO.
At normal, public schools, children get to interact with their peers. This trains all kinds of social skills.
True: Once the kids are older they might interact with the other (now more mature) teenagers. But can you really risk your kids not developing "ordinary" social skills?
I think not.
The things is that most children and teenagers are fucking idiots. I hated elementary school and I actually did independent study in high school because my peers were a bunch of fucking idiots. Did fine in college and had no issues making friends and socializing there. You don't need to go to a public school to learn how to interact with people.
Responsible parents who homeschool will make sure their child has regular and frequent interaction with his/her peers. Now emphasis on "responsible": Since there is no real way to verfiy this it would be wholly the parents' decision, which is why I'm against homeschooling. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good (or even the best) option for any child ever. Just that the chances of it not being a good choice are too high to risk it imho.
I actually can't believe I am arguin in favour of homeschooling. I had a horrible time in school. The thing is that there is a very good contra argument to be made. Just look at America and how homeschooling is used there.
True, it can be done right, also true: your peers are mostly a bunch of hormon-driven morons who are experimenting on each other in terms of social engineering and morals.
But idiot parents make homeschooling a bizare and dangerous proposition. It's IMHO why public schools exist in the first place.
Homeschooling should only be allowed if the child gets bullied too much and can't take it anymore.
Nonsense. There ought to be no restrictions on homeschooling
@@porkymcdonald8601 UM WHY. the inrests of the child are above the interests of the parent
What if his wife was in the other room and just heard that last comment... Well, looks like there's some explaining to do.
Is the year 1919 as the formal introduction of compulsory schooling for all of Germany really the year compulsory schooling was introduced or is this the legal finalization of a de-facto already introduced system?
Legal finalisation. In the German Empire education was a states right too so in prussia for example compulsory schooling was introduced as early as 1810 and finalised in 1848.
Small hint: There are religions, but there is also truth, the truth.
And there is the "rational" thinking, but also facts that are ignored. No one wants to be a "conspiracy theorist," right? Therefore, the majority despises the truth. And that's a fact.
Conspiracy is the normalityof this world and always was. There is no excuse for easier-living ignorance. And certainly none for ignorance of God, who has revealed Himself to us.
Wow the priest is very good
There are exceptions for that, for example when children have diseases preventing them from going to school.
Seid froh, dass eure Kinder zur Schule gehen dürfen! In anderen Ländern müssten sie arbeiten!
Kessina1989 : The standard of comparison is not really some countries where children have to work.
Bei dem Bildungsniveau heute würde ich die Kinder auch lieber Arbeiten schicken, da lernen die wenigstens noch was.
@Levo GAMES Oh du Ärmster! Wenn du noch nichts aus deinem Leben gemacht hast, musst du das dringend ändern! Selbst ich, die aus dem Ausland kommt, hat eine gute Schulbildung genossen!
+Levo Games Ja, früher war alles besser - vor allem die Zukunft...
moewi75 - Was bedeutet das? Erklaren sie mal!
If you don't go to school where do you find friends? Especially in todays world where everyone is just sitting in front of an electonic device
Well you just answered your own quesion
Facebook friends are not friends
Well, some people might argue that internet friends are even better friends than real life friends. Surely, not every "facebook friend" is an actual friend. But the ones you have contact with daily are. Because honestly, where's the difference? You can talk to them about the same things as with your real life friends. The only difference is that you can't touch/hug them. And even that can change after a while when people decide to meet up for the first time.
In "Vereine"? Or Work.
You can't go out with them, play with them, drink with them, do crazy stuff to get their sexual attention (we are talking about teenagers in puberty here) ... all this that "internet friends" can't do.
As an autistic teenager, I am very GLAD that I was not only homeschooled, but in fact self-taught from kindergarten to 4th grade age. This has nothing to do with “indoctrination”, and *everything* to do with the fact that I learned significantly more advanced content (especially in STEM) than I ever could’ve at a regular school
a nice follow up would be looking into the schooling system for traveling folks
I remember having kids in class for a few weeks who came from circus families every now and then
So, you don't have kids?
I feel you would be very good father.
No, I don't say "give it a try".
I feel bad for homeschooled children to be honest. They're almost bound to end up dumber than everyone else through no fault of their own.
There's a reason why teachers are actually educated to teach, and the vast majority of people homeschooling children aren't educated in that field at all. Being a cop, a carpenter or banker doesn't make you remotely qualified to teach children.
Even if we assume a parent took 10 different degrees in teaching, it would still be awful for the child due to the complete lack of social training. I mean ffs, we even talk about socializing our puppies when they're young.. And they won't have half the social life a random child will. The child will have absolutely no clue how to make friends, how to judge a good person from a bad person, how to treat other children, how to treat teachers, how to keep a normal conversation with a random person going, how to solve a conflict with another person, how to read other people in general etc. etc. etc.
It's just an awful thing to do to children.
Also, they never get in contact with any worldview but their parent´s.
Wich is exactly what homeschooling parents want, of course.
All the "freedom of choice" stuff is just an excuse to deny their children said freedom of choice (or at least the nessesary knowlede to make an educated choice).
benjamin lammertz I was homeschooled, and that simply isn't my experience (though I went to FE college when I turned 16).
Then you got lucky, that your parents weren´t complete lunatics, like mine where. I am damn happy, that their worldview wasn´t the only one i learned about, when growing up.
Because otherwise i´d be crying "deus vult!" right now, and not meaning it as a stupid meme...
dsjones It of course depends on the circumstances. You might want to homeschool your children if all the schools are terrible or dangerous. I personally wouldn't have wanted ky parents to home-school me.
benjamin lammertz -- What was the name of their religion? Isn't there a zwölfer thing? Also, you were not homeschooled, and are glad and the other guy was homeschooled and is glad. Banning homeschooling is not the answer, especially since there is no evidence it is harmful. Merely saying it "would have been harmful had you been homeschooled" is not evidence.
allowing homeschooling doesn't have to mean that parents get to teach anything they want; in countries where homeschooling is explicitly allowed, it's usually also regulated.
I think homeschooling should be allowed and regulated; parents should have the right to decide what situations and enviroments their kids get exposed to.
They do have the right...if they don't like the state schools, they can always send their child to an alternative school (the options start with "let them learn in their own speed" approaches over religious schools to schools for children with special needs). They are just not allowed to isolate the child and control every bit of knowledge they are exposed to, because that is considered abuse. Children need to experience different view points and they need to socialize with other children. Honestly, if you have seen some of the nuts which are rallying against the notion of mandatory schooling, you might see it differently. From the German point of view visiting a school is the right of the child - that's how the whole matter with mandatory schooling started, to force parents to allow their children at least a basic education instead of forcing them to work on their farms all the time from a young age.
Here in Denmark, homeschooling is permitted, provided the parents/guardians teach the children the same curriculum as in regular scools, and the students MUST take the same exams as the other, "shool-schooled" kids.
I watched this in 2021. Now we have homeschooling. 😂
But it is a quite different kind of homeschooling: the curriculum is still set by the school and the teachers, you interact with the teachers and classmates online. It's not a situation in which mom and dad tell you what to believe and can't answer most of your questions, because they don't know or don't want to know, and you don't even know what a classmate is.
As an American who was homeschooled, I am 100% against it. My parents homeschooled me as a privilege because they thought it would be better. It had nothing to do with religious beliefs or them being anti public school, as I did end up going to public school once I was a teenager.
I hated homeschooling because it was so isolating. My parents still took me to homeschooler groups and different community events, but you still never make real friends at those things. And the fact was, no one wanted to me my friend because I was a "weird homeschooler". Eventually, I was around 11 or 12, and my older siblings all were in school and both my parents were working, and I was literally home alone. Eventually I just had a break down due to my depression from the isolation, and my parents finally put me into school. That shouldn't have to be the case.
Homeschooling was so isolating and I didn't even learn much. My parents pushed certain subjects but not others. So, when I entered school, I was very advanced for my grade in math, so my classes were pointlessly easy, but then my parents taught me no history and I was totally lost. I didn't even know what 9/11 was. Yeah, it was bad. But still, the social isolation was the worst. While I've developed out of it as an adult, for most of my childhood I was extremely socially awkward. Also, as soon as I went to school, everyone already had best friends which they have known since elementary school, so I never made any true and lasting friendships. Which has left me, still to this day, with nearly nobody I consider a friend.
So yeah, home schooling has left a lasting scar on my life. To anyone who actual read all of this: If you are considering home schooling.. don't.
You can be in public school all your life and experience the same level of social isolation.
There's certainly no guarantee you would've enjoyed public school. So much wasted time.
Hi Rewboss,
I think there are a few points that you are missing in your video. First of all, there are two different forms of home education:
• Homeschooling - which rebuilds traditional school at home with schedules, textbooks and sometimes even blackboards, report cards et cetera
• Unschooling (German: Freilernen) - which rejects indoctrination, fixed curriculums and conventional teaching. Kids are free to be themselves and learn what they want and how they want.
Here in Germany, the two approaches are quite separate although some families are pursuing mixed approaches. It seems to me that in public perception, unschooling is little known (everybody just seems to talk about homeschooling), so I'm not surprised that you've missed the latter. However, recent estimates say that about 3000 kids federation-wide are currently unschooled, and that number is growing rapidly. This also means that unschoolers already outnumber homeschoolers which raises the question why homeschoolers are still receiving more media coverage. If you want to learn more about unschooling, check out this documentary: th-cam.com/video/oyazXm4OJxQ/w-d-xo.html
Personally, I believe that compulsory school in Germany as it is now is not just a law, it's a dogma in two ways.
First of all, it's a dogma because many people are unable to seriously question the present system. Everyone thinks that education doesn't work without a teacher who has a teaching degree, a brick-and-mortar school building, a fixed curriculum, textbooks and force. And then, there's those strange prejudices about home- and unschoolers being socially awkward, not educated et cetera. Ok, it's true that unschooling is a bit of a subculture, so getting in touch with it can lead to culture shock but I don't think it hurts children.
The second way in which compulsory school is a dogma is the effect that compulsory school has on scientific research. If there were no school today, and somebody proposed to establish it, there would probably be concerns that (compulsory) school might be harmful for children. Therefore, it would be neccessary to conduct a scientific study which evaluates the matter. Put 1000 kids in school, allow another 1000 to stay at home, then look at the results. Unfortunately, such a study was never conducted in Germany and under present school laws, it would be illegal to conduct such a study. Therefore, it's not possible to obtain scientific evidence that proves the “(compulsory) school is good” claim right or wrong. And that's what makes it a dogma.
Freilernen
My children are the adult products of homeschooling, unschooling, private schooling, and public schooling here in America. I am delighted to learn from you that the concept of "freilernen" even exists in Germany. These families must be flying under the radar and risking so much, so how they accomplish this is a big question for me.
I have a lot to say about the subject of "schooling" and Mark Twain himself is reputed to have said in one of his insightful quips: "never let your schooling get in the way of a good education."
I am rather pleased with my children's education and the adults they have turned into, and there is so much to say, including the fact that none of the four systems is perfect -- each one is flawed -- hey, sort of just like people and life generally. You covered a lot, but I will add this: I had children so I could raise them myself, enjoy them, and be close to them. My methods allowed me to do just that!
Unschooling could plausibly allow children to preserve their connections with other children, like being able to be just as able to go to the park. If anything it would give them more ability to go meet with other children. It would be hard to say it would be abusive, especially if you could get someone experienced in a given subject to ask a child of a given age questions that a child of that age could reasonably be expected to know and they could answer correctly just based on whatever it is that this unschooled child has learned in whatever way is best for them.
This family was originally granted asylum by an immigration judge. The Obama administration challenged this and the family lost in court but was offered Deferred Action, which allowed them to live and work in the US, but they have no path to citizenship.
Homeschooling in the US works if the parents do the work to educate their children, though not all of them do so. In my state, homeschool kids are allowed to participate in non-academics like music and art at the public school, and also participate in school sports, so they do get some socialization. However, the oversight in academics is very casual. My neighbor homeschooled two of her children until high school, when they chose to attend the public school. They both graduated at the top of their respective classes. The mother apparently taught them how to learn!
school is compulsary in Germany until the age of 18!
Really ? I read until 15 pretty much everywhere
Technically it is compulsary until 21. Thou when you have graduated it's no longer compulsary.
Seems like overreach
UM IT IANT.your rights dotn amtter. that child right does matter
No kids, but there are schools for Dogs and Cats in Germany, oder?
Dogs yes, cats no, that would be a waste of time. And dog schools are more like trainers that tell you how to handle a dog and make a dog listen to your orders etc. It is just named school.
I would say that children have a right to make own experiences without being under parental surveillance 24/7. This prevents indoctrination by the parents. Children are not the parents' property.
TheBookWorm1718 No, of course not. Attending school is not the same as being taken away from the parents.
I had biology teacher that was realy religious. But still she did explained evolution. Only what whe skiped was human anatomy, in 8th class, when some started having sex.
4 years late but... thats not really "skippig it" in 8th grade sex ed should already have happend, soooo... it was likely just not part of that years plan
I don't really know what schools are like in Germany but in America they fucking suck. Also I'm guessing that Germany doesn't allow independent study either? If so, that's pretty sad. I'm atheist and my parents are weird cultists or anything but doing independent study for high school was the best decision ever. I got to graduate earlier and I didn't have to put up with idiotic teenagers and the fucked up school system any more. Loved college though. I understand mandatory education but not allowing anything other than public schools seems like a bit much.
we do have private schools but since they have to teach the same basics like the govermetn schools and the high quality, the goverment schools already supply, they are not that commen. for people with very high stats in logic and stuff, there are extra schools or you can just skip a class or even two if you are good enough. but again.. its uncommon. also there is the possibilty to leave school after the 9. or 10. year (with hauptschul- /realschulabschluss) and then get highr education by the fernschule (far-school) or abendschule (evening school) wich both costs a little bid (as far as i know.. never had to inform my self about them). the fernschule sends you the material to learn and then you just have to take the tests to prove you understoot it. but you dont realy attend a school. the abendschule on the other hand is a special school in the evening, were you can work over the day and then educate your self in the evening. also there are several other methos and possebilitys for dropouts, haupt/realschüler and others with a lower education to aquire a higher one even after finishing school. fachhochschule for example.
Compulsory education is a good thing, but can also be a tool for such indoctrination as the NAZIs wanted it just depends. However, homeschooling has always been so weird to me and the only time I've heard of it is since I've lived in the U.S. as I'm from Colombia.
Indeed: If nowadays Nazis want to indoctrinate their children they need to go to countries with home school possibilities....
There is another reason for school. It rates childen and give them certificates, so businesses later can know that about the skills of people who want to have a job. Parents can´t give trustworthy certificates to their kids, and this is harmful to them, even if the parents are teachers, even if they know what they do.
First: When you apply for a job, all they want to see is the diploma you got when you graduated. The diploma however, can be obtained by sitting the final exam as an external candidate; No need to spend 12 or 13 years in jail. (There are issues of un- and homeschoolers being denied external access to diplomas due to ongoing “educational offenses”)
Second: There are some businesses which don't want to see diplomas any more (e. g. Deutsche Bahn AG) because they feel that the diploma doesn't really tell anything about the applicant's real abilities.
All of the comments argue on an individual base. But every system has it's own flaws on an individual base and also it's positivs.
Just read the comments from +benjamin lammertz , +gnawer shreth or +Your Reality Check
But there is also an effect on the group and society. And depending on what you want as government on or the other is better.
A schoolsystem is not about an individuum. it is about the society.
I wonder what would have happened if it was a Muslim family...
4:14 but government can take the child away from the parents. And also punish the parents. Does persecution begin with arrest and killing?
It's not discriminatory, though. The law applies to all equally, regardless of sex, religion, political views or anything else.
"The law applies to all equally"
Well, in 3rd Reich, the law applies to all equally too, but was the law just?
@@robfriedrich2822 really? That's the best argument that you could come up with?
@@robfriedrich2822 The Nazis literally had laws specific to Jews, and I don´t mean the kind that might have made a Jew ride in the back of a tram. The Nazis suspended the provisions in the constitution, including the ones that would have made it a rule of law society and one without discrimination.
@@robfriedrich2822 thats it, thats the dumbest and most factually wrong comment I've read today
yes, the have to BUT, a it give a lot of familys ther make unschoolng in germany ;)
While Poland dosent have lgb… etc indoctrination in schools
Most people are against homeschooling or afraid of homeschooling just because they don't know much about it. But basically your channel is the epitome, the very essence of homeschooling. Informal unstructured yet still educational and very thorough. And at the very least enough to get a passing grade in a formal class. (In your case a German studies class). Things don't have to be taught in a classroom or from a textbook in a structured formalized way to make it memorable to a student. And in most instance it doesn't . You cover history, geography, social studies and grammar. It's all interconnected so you can't truly miss anything. And that which you don't know your research and learn in order to teach. Parents are more than capable of teaching their own children. If I can repair the brakes, change the oil, rotate the tires on my vehicle why would someone threaten to repo it unless I took it to a mechanic instead. Homeschooling parents don't want to churn out uneducated children anymore than I want a broke or unsafe car. So we both have an invested interest in not screwing up.
While yeah, some homeschooling parents do have a desire to educate childrens with their own way, but nowadays it's more of sort of channel to child abuse and indoctrination something. So i thing that homeschooling should be regulated so as not harm child's development. But that just a last resort. If your school system isnt sucks, school is your option.
I don't understand why they always complain about being taught evolution. I don't know how it is today, but when I went to school 10 years ago the curriculum had placed theory of evolution as a topic to 13th grade Biology. I did not even have Biology anymore, because I chose Chemistry. I think it is still a subject that is taught shortly before graduation.
I have currently Evolution as a ten year at the Realschule, the first Thing we did was sharing options. After that my Teacher told us, that we are free to think that we want but we are in a biolagy cours and we have the Evolution.
A classmate still ask why he needed to learn this things.
I am for Home Schooling, not everybody can do it. But if you can do it (your wife) then the result is spectacular. Strong family bonding, interest based curricula, multiple languages. You can teach your children coding, engineering whatever you want, targeted
And not to be disrespectful, if you want to give advice on how to educate children, I need to see your track record. If you haven’t had to deal with a wife and children, the education system, supporting your kids financially and having the emotional bond, then I can not take your opinions seriously.
Home Schooling can have advantages, certainly if the parents have the time and necessary skills (or money to acquire these by proxy).
But I think the state would have the obligation to check if the parents a) *do* have the qualifications and b) achieve results. Both would be necessary as assurances that the child's actual interests are being realised. Home school, if allowed, could only be allowed to the benefit of the child -- not that of the parents.
_ What I could imagine is that a child is being taught (compulsory) at a special school for kids being taught at home (partially) maybe twice a week -- just to make sure the fundamentals are covered, to offer an alternative viewpoint, to ascertain the child's wellbeing. The rest of the week could be planned out by the parents as they see fit -- though they would still have to teach the children skills worth learning.
And to be clear, I'm not skill-shaming here. I'm not even against focusing solely on languages, or sciences, or even the arts. But some skills seem less fit for school (driving a bicycle, philately, astrology) than others.
1) In school you not only learn the subjects but also social skills, you make friends and develop your own sense of identity, you learn how to interact with people and how they interact with you. This is much more important than learning coding or engineering, which is something you can learn in uni if you even want to pursue a job that requires that.
2) Just because homeschooling can work out well, doesn't mean it will most of the time. In fact, people that would want to use homeschooling, would use it to teach their kids with backwards ideas, like religious indoctrination or political propaganda of some sort. Most parents can homeschool their child well but most parents prefer to send their kids to school because it is I) far easier II) most likely better and III) because of point 1) up top; while those that will use homeschooling, will most likely use it not to teach their children something that they cannot learn in school (which they can do in their free time even if the child already goes to public school) but to NOT have them be taught something that public schools teach so that they can abuse them with their own backwards ideas.
the problem is IT SI WHAT YOU WANT. NOT WHAT THEY WANT
I was badly abused in school my children will be taught at home period
YOU WERE ABUSED. DOES NTO MEEN YOUR CHILD WILL. don't use your experience or your perspective to take revenge on the schools . YOUR JOB IS TO ENSURE THEIR BEST BENIFIT NOT YOURS. they NEED SOCIALIZATION. just cus you ain't good at being social does not mean your children are NOT. so please for gods SAKE ASK THEM WHAT THEY WANT. YOU DONT HAVE A MORAL RIGHT
No kids? How sad!
I think I understand why homeschooling is outlawed in Germany, but I can't say that I totally agree with it. To me, idea of homeschooling is appealing because it gives children the opportunity to have a more one on one personalized education, rather than pumping them through the school system with the rest of the latest batch, and hoping they fit the mold.
Too many children do poorly in school and are led to think that they're dumb not because they are, but because the school system can't accommodate their unique circumstance. This is often not the fault of the teachers, whom I prefer to assume do their best with what they're given. Rather, the institution of education and the way we "process" children is imperfect in many ways. There is no easy solution to this, but homeschooling can be a good option for capable and willing parents.
I got to know one homeschooling family growing up, and those children excelled in math, reading, and the arts beyond what was expected from public school children of the same age. Furthermore, they didn't miss out on peer interaction because the parents got them involved in public extra circulars, such as theater and sports. I realize that this family is not representative of the whole of homeschooling families, but neither are radically religious families. I think it may be unwise to deny parents and their children what could be a better option, simply to avoid some people exploiting the option.
You have to consider that in Germany children are more seperated after ability, so there may not be one on one education, but it is still more individualized. I understand that there are parents that rather have their kids homeschooled for educational reasons but it just opens too many doors for bad people.
TheBookWorm1718 are we talking about the US or Germany?
TheBookWorm1718
It is true that those and many more scandalous activities do occur in rare cases. However, I think the argument is that it is easier to monitor and prevent such activities in a public institution, than in a private household.
Have you been on a public school? Most of this sounds like rare individual cases and I can't imagine the gun thing at all. We are talking about the US after all
@TheBookWorm1718 there was a horrible scandal. A group called the "zwölf stämme" homeschooled their children, 40 of them, and abused them mentally and physically by for example hitting or restraining them until the police saved them.
To be allowed to teach children in higher classes you are required to have some sort of university degree .
It appears crazy that this roughly 5 additional years of education on a subject can be just replaced by parents wanting to teach the subject.
Where Germany is really lax is that for Kindergarden the requirements to teach there are really low compared to other countries. Also Kindergardens are often payed for by the state, but organized by the church. Therefore indoctrination to Christianity starts before school in Germany!
No, as short answer. There is two skills. Teaching and the subject you are teaching. In my experience rougly two thirds of teachers I have met were competent enough (teaching+subject). Young teachers often make up for not yet gained teaching skill with enthusiasm,, latest theory knowledge and time spent for preparation.
For parents I would put that competent enought percentage into the single digit area. Most of them would be hard pressed to know enought about a subject to see how little they know. (Dunning-Krueger at its finest).
Having your own kids would give you some perspective on the realities and reservations facing parents. And I mean this without condescension.
Children, going to "goverment schools", are not taught by the goverment, they get taught by a bunch of people with their own beliefes (teachers). A school will always provide more veriety than homeschooling.
in germany teachers must be politicaly neutral. So this cant hapen
@TheBookWorm1718 teacher doing that here would be fired.
thats a problem with your system then thats needs to be fixed instead of just giving up i would say
then provide some studies. Also, if the american public school system is as bad as you make it sound, its no wonder untrained parents can do a better job. that just shows the problem, and if the solution for politicans isn't "fix the system" because homeschooling works better (which i doubt would be the case with a better public education system), thats giving up on public schools. If the system is that broken in the USA, fine, but it's not in germany, therefore homeschooling isn't needed since it provides almost no benefits here, and not nearly enough to outweight the risks. Here, it is a messure taken to protect the rights of the child
@@ottonormalverbraucher7835 that just means they cant push their agenda on you, they must provide a neutral look on things while the teach you, they can however choose their topics to some degree freely. They will still have their own beliefes, and you will notice that in their classes, they just cant tell you what to vote for, what is right or wrong in current politics etc. because THAT woudl be indoctrination, allowing someoen in position of authority to tell impresionable young people what to think, what is right, or what to vote.
Democracies rely on three duties of their citizens: Compulsory education, tax liability and conscription (Schulpflicht, Steuerpflicht und Wehrpflicht). Compulsory education should make sure that children learn how their country "works" by means of get a living there and how to participate politically actively or passively. So there are some contents in the genuine interest of state and if this is considered as indoctrination, everybody has to live with. In my opinion parents demand unconstitutional practices when they deny visits of information officers of the Bundeswehr at school.
Check out what Sweden did to homeschooling parents of Dominic: they permanently removed him from their parents' care by yanking him away on an airplane. The parents never see their son now, after being forbidden visitation because the mother cried too much during the initial visitations -- which were for a couple of hours every two weeks. It has been years now since they have seen him and they have no idea where he is.
Obviously, forcing children into foster care because of homeschooling is extremely harmful to children!
What kind of a government would do this to children and their parents? Police state? How can you force children to learn what the government decides they will learn?
4 years late,
how can you force childrens to learn what their parents think is "right"? who is better suited, a Group of well educated, trained professionals, trained especialy to handel and educated childrens(i do not argue that many teachers are flawed or incompetent here btw) or 2 People whos only qualification in many cases is that they are the parents
@@weberman173 You put way to much faith in the hands of others. And everyone here puts too little faith in the hands of parents.
@@glendathegoodwitch6987 no, i put exactly as much faith into parents as they deserve.... aka nothing if it comes to providing a balanced, factualy, and good, education.
and i dont pretend the school system is perfect it has its flaws... but it being a sign of a police state isnt it(at least where i live in germany). its also not "the goverment" who decides what you learn here, the goverment gives guildlines based on the exams, etc. for each year entering school up to their graduation.
The teachers then decide how they teach these topics, (within reassnos) and so on. Teachers are also not ALLOWED to show political allegiance to any party, or on any current poilitical topic here(obviously its not 100% "done" by teachers as its just impossible, but the intention is to have a, as politicaly unbiased education, that includes directly and openly criticising the goverment in history and social class if the topic leads to it(which it did for my class once) without the taecher saying "this is evil and has to be condemmed" but us simply getting the facts, doing resaerch, and coming to that conclussion.
Removing your child from your care for child neglect is a valid thing to do, and neglecting(or refusing) to send your child to school when its legaly required to attend a state certified school(or whatever the actual term is) is child neglect.
Children have a right to education, and parents removing that from your child(and most homeschooling parents arent interested in teaching their child correct things, but to indoctrinate them)
some teachers may be great people, who realy want the best for their child, but then supplement the school education, dont try to replace it. Teach your child it on the side, help with homework, explain things ot them, dont rob them of social interaction(regardless of how shitty school can be, and i talk fro personal experience), and so on
Welcome to liberalism.
Homeschooling is great, I have a question for all you school supporters, how much of what you were taught 4th grade and onwards was actually useful? The only useful skills they teach at school are basic math, and language, in fact even if that information was useful, basicly everyone forgets about it. Forcing a child into a chair for 5 hours a day while shoving useless information for 13 years to them is not a basic education, it's child abuse.
Well, i learned about computer science, which I know use.
I learned about legal issues, which makes me somewhat prepared.
I learned about history, sience, other cultures and economics, which broadens my horizon.
I learned about math, with develops critical thinking.
I learned about how to argue, how to write certain kinds of essays, how to analyse texts.
I learnt to speak English.
the thing is, School is meant for a few things, one of which is "teaching them how to learn" your school may have failed at it, but my schools where pretty decent at that, i learned how to read documents, how to extract usefull information from it, how to present said usefull information in a short form. how to organize my work(ok, this was forced on me to learn by myself so i can actualy work)
if you consider the only "usefull skills" they teach at school basic math and language, then you failed school hard.
history is important, so we do not repeat the mistakes of the past. Advanced Maths is important, if only to develope critical thinking, and problem solving methods.
Science is important for OBVIOUS reasons.
The thing is, a 10 year old wont know whathe wants to do when he is 18 and has to work, so school teaches them the basics ina lot of different subjects, so they can decide what they want to do and have a basic knowledge to start persuing that path when the time comes.
My teacher always said "the specifics of what we teach may not be important but the basics of it will be"
While yeah 90% of the lessons aren't even actually useful, but most homeschooler parents are probably evangelicals and conspiracy believers. How to make mainstream school better? convince the politicians to care and think hard about that thing.
It is a child's right to have an education. Okay, but a right is not mandated. Also, I could hardly think of a worse place for someone to develop social skills than a public school.
Assuming that kids have the right to go to school, that right won't be respected if their parents homeschool them. I think it's not the good reasoning, but it seems that's how they see it. Like you say you can develop social skills in so much different ways...
The American Public Education System was directly imported from Prussia (modern day Germany). This model of "free and compulsory" education was designed by the Prussian Emperor, in order to generate obedient workers and soldiers who would not question his authority.
In the 1830's, American Lawmaker Horace Mann visited Prussia and researched its education methodology. He was infatuated with the emperor's method of eliminating free thought from his subjects and designed an education system for Massachusetts directly based on these concepts. The movement then quickly spread nationally.
Horace Mann said, "The State is the father of children." Do you want your children growing up in total submission to the State?
School does not teach critical thinking.
When we were taught about Europe and the EU, we had to think about benefits that the EU provides to us.
We never learned anything critical about the EU, and when I asked a critical question, it was downplayed and I was told to stick with the stuff that matters for the tests.
My little sisters class had to create posters about refugees and how they bring wonderful parts of their culture to our country.
Mind you that her class consists of easy to manipulate 10-11 year olds.
I remember that we had almost a whole year dedicated to the cruelties of Nazi Germany, Socialist East Germany and the two World Wars. We learned almost nothing about the eras before that.
We had more than 5 excursions to GDR, Nazi Germany and World War museums and concentration camps, while we had one or two excursions to other places.
They even had a "debate round" with holocaust survivors where we basically had to listen to their stories and then we were GIVEN question that we could ask them. One or two students were allowed to make up own questions.
It is currently debated to teach sexual education classes even earlier, like as in 3rd grade or something. These kids are 8 years old. They don't need to know about how gay relationships work and how many "genders" there are (which is also part of what they want to teach).
They also want to push the concept of a "day-school" which means the students will be required to attend from 8AM to 5PM or so. They clearly want to keep the kids away from their parents so that they can teach them all that sick stuff.
I think parents should be allowed to teach their kids, however not unconditionally.
The parents should be required to report what they have taught, and they should send the home-schooled students to attend normal exams.
4 years late but.
for the first part then your school or teachers sucked.
In my school, we DID think criticaly about the EU, we talked about bad things the EU did, or negatives about certain actions(like expansion etc)
the whole "Sister had to create posters and what they bring to our country" so what? they got a task, to think about good things people from other cultures bring to us? whats bad about that, unless the teacher was maniacly and sayed "there is nothing bad about them ever" i dont see how that is a bad thing?.
The Nazi shtick, thats once again a problem with your teacher, and or the curriculum as a whole in your state, not the School system itself.
once again, my Experience, we learned during Abitur,(aka 3 years of 2 semesters each so 12 "units" how our teacher called it)while yes, we had a slightly larger ammount of untis dedicated to Nazi germany(i think it was 2.5 units instead of the normal 1-2 units per topic) we learned it choronologicaly,
we started with the french revolution,
then imperialism,
Went to the german empire and WW1 even the Julycrisis was part of that year, thought about the "schuldfrage"(aka who was at fault for WW1) (and we had to write an essay on it. regardless of what our own opinion was, as long as the essay was factual where it had to be, and good in explaining your viewpoint it was marked acordingly well),
we went to weihmar and how the constitution among other factors like the finance crisis and hyperinflation caused the trust in the systme to errode and lead to nazi germany, we handeld nazi germany, not from a "war" aspect, but from the ideological aspect, what where the nazis, what did they stand for, how did their system "work"(aka führercult etc)
we then handeld the Cold war, the Cuba crisis, we handeld the beginings of the EU(the montanunion) what the EU did well, how we profit from it, what it costs us, criticisim of the EU, problems the EU may be facing right now, problems the EU had in the past, whatever its good or bad for the EU to expand.
before that, i had talked about Nazis 3 times in history classes.... a lot of times i know, but i am a special case, i switched schools 4 times so i just happend to catch that school that was just about to start talking about Nazis when i switched.
furthermore, unless the "push" towards "all day school" makes it mandatory for every parent to use it, its just a option parents can take if they have to work. a way to ensure their children are safe, and around people of their age while they work, i was in after school programms that are basicly all day school in all but names, and i loved it, i got help with homework my parents simply could not provide do to their work schedules, i was able to hang out and play with my friends from school for longer. just because its called "all day school"dosnt make it bad
while i mostly agree that being 8 years old is a tad early for sexual education, i do not see it as a problem per say, if the lessons are done in a good manner, it does not hurt an 8 year old to know gay people exists(infact, i think its better for them to know it early so that they do not feel conflicted later if they figure their own sexuality out)
furthermore, telling them that there arent just "males and females" isnt hurtfull either. its helpfull, it teaches accepting people for who they are, not what they are
@@weberman173 I'm not getting into a lengthy debate about details. In the end we all have different experiences and viewpoints. I believe my point originally was that I'm not particularly delighted about the direction the school system is taking.
On the point of home schooling, I do believe it should be at least an option.
A free society shouldn't fear freedom.
Germany should allow homeschooling
No it should not, thank you very much.
and why?
i dont see any benefits from homeschooling exept for radicals and childabusers
Childabusers? Really :D Homeschooling keeps benefits to children who stuy at own time and better than public school I was homeschooled just one year and I learnt a lot of things my future mates didn´t know. I was far away from them. And again...childabusers...are you serious?
Germany has different types of schools (including Waldorf, Montessori etc.) for the different types of students. Homeschooling is unnecessary.
And one reason why mandatory school attendance is also important is that it allows other adults to have an eye on the children, to detect possible signs of abuse. Children that are homeschooled, with no other adults to check up on them, are at a higher risk of abuse because there is so little way to observe what they go through.
since i accedently deletet my comment i was going to write, i just rederect you to this artikel: www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-it-is-illegal-to-homeschool-in-Germany-If-yes-why
there especially the second comment from Gertrude Martin put it all realy good together
USA > Germany.
We have parental rights.
Our prepubescent kids aren't forced to learn sex positions or be handed out condoms at school. The land of the free. May it never change 🇺🇲
I hope you're being sarcastic, because our prepubescent kids also aren't forced to learn sex positions or be handed out condoms at school.
@Gotcha B1tch I would hope that, as a teenager, you don't have any children of school age.
I'm not buying the story about 11-year-olds being given condoms; but even if that was happening in the US, it's never happened in Germany. I don't see anything wrong with being told that there's nothing wrong with being gay, unless you think that homosexuality is somehow a choice.
@@rewboss Actually I was given condoms in 5th grade in Germany. It was part of 2 or 3 days of sex education. After that everyone in class used these condoms as balloons and it was fun :D
@rewboss Yeah. It happened to us in Germany.
maybe you should take a look at teen-pregnancy statistics..
School is a psycological concentration camp. You are forced to socialize with people who you almost have nothing in common with, you are educated by scholars who you can not relate to, your head is brainwashed with lies that is only benefical to the authoritres and their supporters, your time is constantly wasted with your dependency to wait for teachers and assesments, you get manipulated by people to prepare for a career that distracts you from the real important things in life and of course it is boring. From my experience, only a few things that I have ever learned from school would I concider useful
Forcing you to send your kids anywhere is absolutely wretched and immoral. Not only are they taking the kids though force if we dont hand them over, they also come and steal our money through force to keep paying for that shitty useless public school. That same public school our children end up being bullied, traumatised or drugged for being bored... And calling it ADHD
th-cam.com/video/emc2cxFM_NU/w-d-xo.html
As german
1) schools dont teach critical thinking. Teachers award parrot like behaviour when pupils are able to recite what the teacher taught them and if a pupil dares to question the books or teacher he is punished with bad grades.
As example, it should be that way - the teacher doesnt immediately tell the students the facts but aids them discovering the answer for themselves,a rgues with them and leads them to the correct answer. Instead of just telling them and expecting them to repeat. In math you dont memorise what 3434+12 is. you learn how to get to the right answer instead of being told the answer immediately and be expected to repeat whenever you are asked
2) the german schools are, outside bavaria, a mess. We have Abiturienten who literally cant even read and write. ok few but it happens. Pisa shows us our lack of education in schools and the school system is based on authority of the teacher which shouldnt be.
3) i recommend you watch some criticism by Richard David Precht on the german school system. We produce workers that no company wants to hire cause they dont have any real life skills. They may know a lot of stuff they will never need in their job but dont know how to wipe a floor.
4) My biggest beef with the school system is that the stuff children are taught is outdated by like 60 years. When i talk to my kids what they learned in school i need like 3 hours a day to get them right and fix the lies they have been told in school. Examples: dinosaurs had feathers, birds didnt evolve from dinosaurs they ARE legit dinosaurs, similiar humans ARE apes, columbus wasnt the first european to discover america, there even was a stable traderoute to america 500 years before Kolumbus, Napoleon wasnt small he was 178 and for his time even slightly bigger than the average and so on and so forth...
physics students tell me the hardest part oft heir study was the first semester when they had to basicly forget everything they were taught in school cause all of that was plainly wrong. like gravity - masses dont attract each other, they fold the space around them and fall towards each other.
i wouldnt insist on homseschooling my children but hell do i wish schools would at least teach factually correct stuff..
There is much wrong in this post:
1. Critical thinking: alone the fact that pupils are taught the 'scientific method' already includes teaching of more critical thinking than many parents would do. But yes, it's not trained (enough), but at least taught.
2. PISA itself is flawed, and before i say something wrong, there are good videos and texts around, easy to find. Doesn't mean that our school system isn't flawed too .. but too many people (unfortunately our politicians too) take PISA way too serious.
3. Absolutely correct.
4. Oh well, here we go:
SOME Dinosaurs are by now known they had feathers, still needs more confirmation that most or all did.
Birds DID evolve from Dinosaurs, that doesn't mean they are no Dinosaurs anymore. Pretty much the same for humans, who are part of the branch of primates called apes, and i have never heard anyone (except inteligent design idiots) arguing that humans are not part of this branch.
And about gravity: masses DO attract each other, folding the spacetime is the prevalent and so far best idea to answer the question HOW they do attract each other. The big misunderstanding with 'folding space' is often that people take it too literally and try to apply it as it were in our every day perceivable 3-dimensional world.
There is so much wrong with our school system and it should be criticised, but using flawed arguments doesn't help.
1) the scientific method is usually not taught, dont know where you went to school but i dont know any german who was taught it specificly, actually most were as said, punished if they dared question anything and were rewarded for just repeating whats in the book.
2) i agree Pisa has many flaws but just like the weather report its not made to be 100% accurate but give you a general idea. its hard to argue that the scandinavian countries arent way ahead.
4) i agree we havebnt confirmed that all dinosaurs had feathers but from what we know now they likely had them - excluding ofc those "dinosaurs" that arent actual dinosaurs but (monitors? Warane) like Dimetrodon.
i often hear people say that humans are humans and not related to apes but only sharing an ancestor that was neither ape nor human - somewhat correct but also somewhat misleading. Actually my biology teacher made fun of the idea that humans are related to apes and that this was the argument opponents of Darwin made....
4.1) the term attract is misleading though. If masses would attract each other like say magnets do,the universe would look very different and the moon would have crashed into the earth long ago. As you say, people get the wrong idea, and in my school folding of space was never even mentioned.
1.) I dont know where you are from, but at least I was taught in the scientific method. Almost every time we strated working a new subject we were given the problem, a bit of raw data and an hour of time to figure it out. Some of the teachers had no idea of what they were teaching but others were straight up excellent, especially some of the teachers for science- and social economics. I had great discussions with my politics teacher who gave extra points to students who caught him telling opinion and raised awareness if we did not. We spent hours and hours reading articles and comments on actual political issues, pinpointing their point of view, cheking the arguments and how to rip them apart if possibile.
2.) PISA is problematic because the achieved score isnt worth anything until you compare it with others, which means you have to set a standart not implementing cultural, economic or language issues. But instead of improving education as a whole the focus seems to be more on fitting those specific PISA requirements, leaving everything not in these standarts even further behind. Nobody doubts scandinavia is far ahead in these things.
3.) agreed
4.)It is pretty likely that feathers predate the dinosaurs and are more of an ancestral trait, though not being expressed in every species. Alligators e.g. still have the ability to produce feather specific kreatin without having any use for it while being genetically pretty far away from species that evolved into birds.
Humans: Why is it misleading? It is the correct scientific term.
Back when I was at school, teachers actually tried to teach us critical thinking.
For instance, this meant that teachers would bring up alternative approaches to education in class and have students debate the pros and cons.
Yes, we discussed homeschooling (in particular, the Romeike case) and Summerhill in class. We also watched “Dead Poets' society”.
But looking backwards, my impression is that even though teachers tried to teach critical thinking, students were not really able to seriously consider other approaches. When we did Summerhill in school, the only person in class who was capable of considering that Summerhill might actually work, was the teacher.
the state has their own version of reality, and the parents have their own. Moral is subjective, which means whatever value you put on whatever variable, be it subjective or objective is in the end all up to opinion. So you are 100% completely and absolutely dead wrong. In my opinion the state is teaching marxist, anti white ideology and most of it is not based on science either, why would one ever give up your childs soul to such a totalitarian machine? it started with the nazis, and it seems that leftists like to keep those authoritarian aspects living for their own benefit.
I could say every child has a right to be taught conservative values, and if you disagree you're evil and need to go jail.
Same goes with anything else.
Science and objectivity. Who decides that science is objective? Who can be trusted?
And who owns a child? Who decides who owns a child? Who is closest to a child? the answer is easy, the parents. A child is the blood of their parents, and the family unit is a fundemental human bond that is absolute. Collectivism vs Individualism. A free individual is free from being ruled by a much more powerful state. A states indoctrination is much stronger than that of a parent, which is much more dangerous.
"Noones is getting tortured"?
Depends on teachers and schoolmates, I daresay
Gender mainstreaming education for school beginners is one reason for home schooling. And about "critical thinking skills": I have the impression, that it is much more "fake critical thinking skills"
We are often told to make our own point and if I'm in disagree with my German teacher they say, try to change my mind. And Lots of exercises go this point: A Student said: "----" Do you agree or Disagree with the statment?
We have to make our point on the Theme.
I ask alot, always thinking about that my teacher says, and say if I disagree or dont understand they statment and try to make my point in class discussion, I argure with my mother over things. I learned to always make my own mind
It's a fundamental human right that is being violated. I had my choice of country to raise my family, Germany was crossed off early because of their restrictions on home schooling.
The US tend to put liberty/freedom above all else. Germany's constitution ranks it third, after human dignity and physical integrity. While not technically pertinent in any non-abstract sense, that's the basis of the German system, built on learnings of the past 200 years (and, more importantly, the first 50 of the 20th century). The US system is already pretty dated in comparison - it was an alternative to monarchy, not to the weaknesses of democracy.
Why is this relevant to schooling? Well, in my experience, children in the US are generally treated as secondary, even subservient to their parents. I was shocked when I heard that phrases like "yes, sir/ma'am" are actually fairly common in some areas. In Germany, children's rights typically outweigh those of their parents. That means: The child's right to receive a public, neutral, peer-reviewed education outweighs their parents' rights to choose how their children are educated. Dignity, in this case, beats freedom.
Turning that argument around, one could say that home-schooling violates a fundamental human right as well - the child's right to a guaranteed standard of education. It's mostly a matter of perspective.
What Monsterfurby said.
That's all a bit of a stretch. "Neutral peer-reviewed education" also seemed to include nazi propaganda.
Citation needed. No other country's curriculum is as obsessed with making sure again and again that the atrocities and overall horribleness of the Nazi regime are understood (and for good reason!). The groan from students whenever the Nazis' crimes come up in history lessons is practically a meme.
Macron recently said in the speech that the US, unlike most European states, is big on freedom but not so much on justice. I think he is right. In this particularly case the right of the children to a proper education is more important than the freedom of the parents...just like Germany just recently decided that the right of the children to not get a serious illness is more important than whatever hang-ups their parents have about vaccinations.
You do know schools also teach Creationism, right?
German schools don't.
Turkish schools will soon exclusively teach creationism.
Thanks, Adolf Erdogan!
Es gibt Religionsunterricht oder Ethik, aber nur wenn ein Lehrer dafür da ist.
www.schuleunderziehung.de/870-Religions-unterricht/915-Rechtsgrundlagen/9962,Erlass-%22Religionsunterricht-an-Schulen%22.html
Technically, creationism is just learned at religious section and some other things. if the country doesn't have that in their curriculum, it could be it doesn't.
@@DrachenKaiser Die Wahrheit ist keine Religion, Gott ist keine Religion, Seine Schöpfung auch nicht. Was außer der offensichtlichen Wahrheit bleibt, das zu lehren wäre - es sei denn, man will seine Kinder einem System so gefährlicher wie dummer Lügen aussetzen?
I think having to submit your kid to government indoctrination if you do not want it flies in the face of freedom. The very idea that your children belong to the state to whom you must submit them for several hours a day, five days a week . . . .preposterous!
They're not property, they're human beings. The very idea that a parent should just be able to do whatever the fuck they want to with/to their children is what's preposterous. The children have the right to an actual education and not some safe space at home where their nutty parents can teach them all kinds of horseshit. Actively ensuring that your child gets ignorant should be a crime. You're fucking up their life because of your own nonsensical views, opinions and beliefs.
denying your child to get a basic education is a form of child abuse and hence ilegal. children are not pets -.-
Gnawer Shreth : You are an angry, judgmental and vulgar person. Read what I wrote about my own homeschooling experience.
Diddy Doe : You are assuming too much. Who said homeschoolers do not get a basic education? Where in the world did you get that from?
Your Reality Check, Yeah, fuck me for wanting to protect children and ensuring they get the best education available, right? How dare I?!
So glad I am not German. Consider the situation of Islamic schools: What are they learning in those schools?
The same as every other school as they are required to do so or they don't count as schools. Plus extra courses in Islam, I imagine. And what would the parents of the kids teach them if they would school them at home?
Brain Freeze There is no such thing here.
What a fucked up bullshit comment...
??? While there are a few "Koran Schools", they are not what we are talking about here since they are only after-class schools where religiouse Muslims send their kids to. These kids still have to visit a normal school just as their non-muslim classmates, and they also get at least the opportunity to get another view of the world, if they accept them or not is another thing. And actually, the compulsary schooling prevent these kids of solely learning Koran without any other further education.
The real problem here is that many Muslim communities have a quite radical religious belief that they pass on to their young. Mandatory schools are great for teaching those kids different values.