ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- How numerous safety barriers were not enough to prevent the catastrophic crash of Avianca 052.
🟢🟢🟢 Patreon - patreon.com/3greens
🟢🟢🟢 TH-cam Membership - / @3greens
You can view my notes on the accident report by signing up to the links above.
View the Original Accident Report here - www.ntsb.gov/investigations/A...
CREDITS
Voice Actors
Find them all on Castingcall.club
Captain - Christian Thornton
First Officer - Lorenzo Sabatini
Flight Engineer - Gavaroc
ATC 1 - Brian Barnshaw
ATC 2 - Christian Thornton
ATC 3 - Brian Barnshaw
ATC 4 - Gavaroc
Music
Music - purple-planet.com
Sim Footage
Microsoft Flight Simulator 10
Camera System - Chaseplane
Ground Services - GSX
Boeing 707 - Captain Sim
Avianca Livery - David Sweetman
Images
Wreckage 1 - By National Transportation Safety Board/Junta Nacional de Seguridad del Transporte - lessonslearned.faa.gov/ll_main..., Public Domain, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
Seat Map - By NTSB; vector version by User:Amble - File:Avianca52SeatMap.png, originally fromamelia.db.erau.edu/reports/nts... -- 22/295, Public Domain, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
Wreckage 2 - By National Transportation Safety Board/Junta Nacional de Seguridad del Transporte - lessonslearned.faa.gov/ll_main..., Public Domain, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
Wreckage 3 - By National Transportation Safety Board/Junta Nacional de Seguridad del Transporte - lessonslearned.faa.gov/ll_main..., Public Domain, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
00:00 Intro
00:34 Context
2:59 Take Off and Departure
4:08 Cruise
5:47 Descent
9:05 Vectors
12:21 ILS Approach
15:05 Go Around
16:35 Vectors for 2nd Approach
17:50 Accident Sequence
19:11 Engine Flame Out
20:00 Aftermath
20:30 Analysis
23:16 Conclusion
#aircrashinvestigation #Mayday #3Greens
![[FULL EP.69] #เอิร์นจิรวรรณ เปิดบ้านหมื่นล้านทุกมุม ครั้งแรก! l เคหสถานบานปลาย l One Playground](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_J4_nw8c64o/mqdefault.jpg)
I experienced a near fuel emergency in a crj900 in NYC as captain. I was extremely low and was going to be #30 in line for the ils22 in laguardia. I flatly told approach "that will result in fuel exhaustion." He promptly said "you are now number two for the runway". You just have to be clear with them.
Edit: I was 200 pounds away from declaring "minimum fuel" and 400 away from declaring "emergency fuel". It was due to a massive atc reroute from dfw, then holding and being released from the hold 500 pounds above Bingo fuel.
Sadly for them they had a language barrier
@@am_goose8252 that's their fault
@@astridvvv9662 is it really a persons fault for not being born in an English speaking country?
@@am_goose8252 yes. If they choose to participate in an industry that requires the usage of level 4 ICAO English.
Having listened to many ATC recordings from JFK I am impressed by the controller's ability to understand pilots who have limited English skills.
NYC, and most parts of north Jersey, Just to get by in daily life you need to be able to understand all different languages and dialects.
Do the controllers really understand the pilots, tough? In this case, they obviously didn't.
@@johndeer6543 The understanding is contingent on the pilots using the proper callouts. In this case the pilot spoke no English (while flying internationally!) and the Co-Pilot was inexperienced and was failing to use the proper Aviation English Phrases and Callouts. It's not simply English they use. It's Aviation English. Certain key words and phrases.
A simple "mayday mayday mayday" earlier would have avoided this tragedy. Unfortunately, many pilots avoid this because it involves a lot of bureaucracy.
This is why standard terminology is so important. Pilots said every possible word except... EMERGENCY. If that word came out over the radio just once, they wouldve gone straight in, diverting other aircraft to make way for them... so glad ICAO has made this better.
A sad avoidable accident. Thank you for discussing it. I like this presentation of it.
Should have been a "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" as soon as the situation became concerning!
Watching that I was thinking "uh... why is he not telling NY controller the plane has no fuel for alternate?" Yikes.
If you're so close to the fuel limit for safely reaching your alternate and ATC can't give you a definitive answer on the amount of time you'll remain holding before you can land, I would think the decision would be obvious: Go to your alternate.
Ive seen another doc, that included some of the CVR recording. They didnt divert, coz they believed, that the ATC were taking them for landing asap. That doc went into details, not just about the failures in planning the flight, the repeated failures of ATC to pass on critical information etc, but also about the language barrier. This incident really shows, how important it is, that pilots are fully conversant in English, its not enough to know a few pertinent gloses or rely on some1 to translate for them.
This also showed clearly, how important standard phraseology is. The Avianca crew thought, they had declared an emergency and relayed their desperate situation, coz where they were from, requesting priority means, they need to go to the front of the queue and land right now, its the same as declaring an emergency, as calling a Mayday. Apparently no1 had trained them otherwise, so they didnt know, that they had to use the word Mayday or "we declare an emergency", coz they had requested priority and repeatedly stated, they were running out of fuel, which is the same to them as a Mayday.
In the end, the dispatchers in Colombia put the crew in a bad situation on everything from wrong numbers, not enough fuel onboard and bad crew selection, where only 1 flight crew member spoke English. On top of lack of or faulty training for phraseology for flying to other countries. Ofc, the crew itself are not blameless, they shouldve monitored their fuel much closer and reacted more forcefully to ATC (but again, culture difference) and not just blindly trusted, that ATC were taking care of them. Nor is ATC blameless, who on the recording were very dismissive, regularly missed important information, and as the investigation later showed, repeatedly failed to pass on critical information about fuel to the next controller. Flight crews trust, that once ATC has acknowledged the information about such things as critical fuel, that is passed on, so the crew can focus on getting the plane landed. ATC failed to pass it on every single time.
A very long explanation, but that is why they didnt go to the alternate. They really thought, they were next for landing, and for every new instruction and pass on to next controller they thought, that was taking them to the runway. By the time they realised, the ATCs were just shovelling them around, they no longer had the fuel to make it to another airport. And the final nail in the coffin was, when weather conditions forced a go-around, and ATC once again did not pass on the fuel critical status, so they were vectored to the back of the line of landing planes, while they still thought, they would be going straight in again immidiately.
So many misunderstandings, mostly based on language barriers, difference in standard phraseology, confirmation bias in the cockpit, and ATC being too busy and focused on sending planes on without proper attention, both to transmitted information from the plane and to making sure to pass information on.
Just like Tenerife, it is very easy to just blame the pilot. In the Tenerife case the dead pilot, who couldnt give his part of the story, or defend himself against all the unsubstantiated claims and outright smears from the surviving PanAM pilot, that had no recordings or any other witnesses to the radio comments and actions, he claimed, the Dutch pilot had taken, yet his very selfrighteous, clearing-himself-of-any-possibly-guilt statement, that only got more and more detailed in its lack of believability over the years, was taken as gospel by the American investigators and stood for decades, b4 an unbiased investigator (actually a retired NTSB go-team leader) went through the evidence again and found a very different picture, with multiple failures all around. But Tenerife and Avianca as with all accidents are not that simple. U can also look at American 587, 1 of the simplest cases out there with 1 sole specific reason, which is almost unheard of - clear pilot error. Yet it was not the pilots fault, coz he only did, what he was trained by the airline to do.
Nothing is ever that simple or that obvious. If it was, we wouldnt have any crashes.
@@dfuher968 Well, I think MOST of the blame is with ATC, the first guys, not only did they not relay information forward, but at the very least if someone says they're low on fuel, you'd inquire a little more than not at all. That by itself already sounds serious to me. But yeah, having a FLUENT English speaker (definitely one of the pilots because they have to understand what they're relaying) is essential, there's no excuse to not have one. None. Ever.
@@dfuher968 I've read the NTSB report, which includes the CVR transcript. I agree that the crew likely decided not to divert based on the controller's message that implied they were set up for a quick landing. However, once the subesequent controller told them they would actually be holding longer, the flight crew should have diverted to an alternate airport - even if that alternate is not the one originally planned for. One of my takes on this accident, especially after reading the NTSB report, is that the crew really had poor fuel management skills above and beyond not properly communicating their situation to ATC.
@@dfuher968 they should be straight banned from flying within the US at least if not fluent in English. Captains learn so much and they do this for years on years on years. Therefore never learning to become fluent in English is intentional apathy. Strip their licenses.
Despite secondary factors I'm convinced if FO declared emergency (and or Capatain knew English better) they would have made it.
He did declare emergency. Not only did he more than once state "we are in emergency", he also repeatedly asked for priority, which, where they are from, IS the word for declaring an emergency. Plus, he stated repeatedly, that they were running out of fuel, which, frankly, shouldve woken up the ATCs, but they didnt even pass it on to the next controllers. Sadly, it once again shows, why standard phraseology and language skills are so vital. Tho those were not the only factors, they were important ones in this case.
Why no Pan Pan Pan? Why no Mayday?!?! Argh!
Because the Captain, flying into New York, didn’t speak English. So the FO was in addition to doing his FO duties, was translating between ATC and the Captain. And failed to communicate the situation with any urgency. People say “but they were complaining about fuel!” Yes, every plane was complaining about fuel. The entire US Eastern Seaboard was undergoing a massive weather front. Every plane in the air was stacked up in a holding pattern. The other bad decision of the day was from the FAA in DC that denied the regional ATC’s request to reduce traffic and hold planes on the ground. Resulting in way too many planes in the air for the weather. The core fault for the crash lies with the flight crew. But Avianca’s lawyer has spent 30 years appearing on every air crash show blaming the ATC. Past the point of credulity. Yeah, that episode of “Mayday”? It was pretty much written by him.
this is one o f the most stressful crash videos ive ever seen
Very good. I have watched many of your videos over the last few days. I am rather surprised you have only 17k subscribers, given the quality and obvious research effort you put into your content. I hope your viewership grows to reflect what I consider to be very high attention to detail and analysis.
Greets from Central Coast NSW.
There's a great air crash investigation on this. If the actors portraying the pilot's is accurate, the co pilot was literally terrified
Thanks for having me! 🎙
You're a certified 707 captain (even if it is decommissioned rn)
Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Wasn't there also a problem with the word priority having vastly different meanings in English and Spanish/Portuguese?
Come on. The aviation language is English in NY. How difficult is it to learn THE MOST CRITICAL aviation word. It's one word. "Emergency" or "Mayday." It's like being a computer programmer who can't use the word "software"
From other channels, I have heard other foreign airline pilots use Priority but it did not register to me that they meant pan-pan, mayday or emergency. It was watching this incident when the narrator explained Priority.
@@bluecoffee8414 exactly. There's no excuse not to be fluent in English as an airline pilot.
is it time to call a pan-pan if you have only 5-10 minutes left of holding?
isn't it time to call a may-day if you have less than 5 minutes of fuel left?
I like the engine noise in the background but you should keep it just a little bit lower, a bit hard to hear you at the ground before takeoff. Love your videos, thanks for sharing them with us
No squawk 7700? If the copilot did declare emergency, wouldn't ATC request nature of emergency, souls and fuel onboard?
I'm really diggin' your channel. hope it keeps growing!
It seems the communication problem was really between the crew. The pilot twice used the word "emergency" with his clueless FO. Besides isn't "Emergency" in Spanish (and Portuguese) "Emergencia?"
Good production .
Thanks for sharing. 😉👌🏻
I lived on Cove Neck, nearby where the plane crashed. The area was in pandemonium, for due reason when the flight crashed.
This was explained very well. Thank you 3 Greens
I'd be interested to know how the pilot ran out of fuel, crashed yet still managed to keep the hull nearly intact? It's amazing so many passengers survived tbh.
Nice doco.. but couple of errors...
- 7:09 - spelling error.. should be JFK not JSK.
- AVA 052 had a U/S autopilot so the Captain was flying the aircraft manually the whole time. His workload was higher than usual.
I lived at Flushing N.Y. Queens. We will never forget. Rip Amen 🙏.
No smoking light. The least of their problems.
It's a miracle they didn't kill people on the ground.
This accident really was just the perfect storm. I’ve always wondered why the pilots didn’t consider diverting to PHL, EWR, BWI, IAD, etc. All of those airports could have handled a 707 pretty easily. Maybe the pilots were hesitant because they didn’t know those airports well?
Is there any recording or video of plane crashes that happened back in the twenties and thirties, just curious other than the German zeppelin in New York ?
2:12 The total fuel requirement is 7500 lbs more than the sum of the preceding lines. Do you know what the missing line is?
first officer almost seems to be deliberately hiding the dire situation to atc
The captain should've just declared the emergency himself in spanish, the word is nearly identical, I'm sure if the said "emergencia" to air traffic control they'd have understood what it meant and "mayday mayday mayday" is known in every language.
Why are commercial pilots so reluctant to call Pan Pan Pan? It's like they think it's an admission of failure, when it's actually a call for help and priority over other traffic.
I swear that I’ll never understand this accident. Even if they couldn’t divert the flight they could at least try to land on the Hudson River. Or any other body of water in the vicinity of New York.
I mean, a surprising number of people survived this crash. Water landings usually mean no survivors. There's a reason the "Miracle on the Hudson" is called a miracle, ditching practically never ends well.
@@Rubycon99yeah, but, they could have diverted to Boston, ATC really really screwed with the fight crew. You know what is really really dangerous, trying to orbit New York for many hours and end up without fuel. I know that hand sight is 20/20 but, come on, they could have landed in Boston or any other airport !!!
What a sad event 🤦♀️😮💨😪
But I thought this flight auto pilot was inoperable? I think the captain hand flew the whole way according to other reports I seen
Can someone tell me why they would divert to logan Instead of acy ?
Handling services. Customs, etc.
@@BobbyGeneric145 oh ok. Yeah I figured it probably has to do with some sort of technicality. I honestly didn't know. Thanks 👍
It is a funny thing to live directly beside an airport. Just go to a pub nearby and you will meet pilots. Some of them have a deep understanding of their plane and aviation physics. But to some pilots a puddle of rainwater is an intellectual challange: "F..k, I have to repeat my proficiency check. They asked me about electrical wiring and I told them that I am a pilot and not an electrician..." I'll never understand how one can do any job without the desire to understand every aspect of it, without curiosity.....Especially as a pilot deep knowledge comes in very handy in case of emergency. If you are just "a stupid bus driver" - as a test pilot for Saab once described modern pilots to me - you should not sit in a pilot seat. Other things to spot for in the pub are the inability to use precise language (like the numbnut first officer who does not know the word "emergency") and "rules are stupid!".
Then it is time to find out the airline the bus driver is flying for and the routes. Don't book that ever!
5:58 wrong date
I kept wanting to yell "confirm/affirm the pan/mayday fuel situation with each ATC"!
Standard phraseology is so undervalued or not understood for how safety essential it is!
Civil Aviation needs a better standardized brevity code like NATO's
How hard is it to say "out of fuel" instead of "running out of fuel".
This crew had a language barrier. That was THEIR fault. When u land in the US, u must speak english... English... international language
Don't be a such a prick. Error was their excessive humility in a mean city like New York.
New York Controllers are notoriously aggressive but this Pilot was RIDICULOUS
I just don't understand the fo's thinking. He knew what Leavell the fuel was at and then the captain asked him did you declare an emergency and he said yes. But say that at all through the hole ordeal... stupid that's all I can think he was just flat out stupid I don't think he should have been a pilot.
A fuel stop should have been made in Norfolk👨✈️
This episode is so sad and infuriating to watch
Pilots that don't even speak English well enough to declare an emergency killed 65 people...
Don't even have words for it...
1st officer God rest his soul is to blame.
In accidents I don’t understand why pilots think they know better than anyone else. You are handling a very large machine with other people on board and there are so many different departments going on just for one flight you need to trust those other people and officers involved with the flight
that 1st officer was a twat - not to actually say Fuel Emergency, when specifically told by his Cpt, and lie, saying he had, is unforgivable. Some of these vids makes one wonder how some pilots get approved to fly commercial.
Please change the speaker...
I hate the FO
FO doomed this flight
English please
Next time get the date of the accident correct January 25, 1990. Not 19th of July 1989
Captain not being fluent in English should have forced the f/o to repeat EMERGENCYx 3, we have no fuel , request immediate priority!!!
And of course the survivors blame the American atc for their incompetent pilots not declaring an emergency or even a pan.
first officer totaly incompetent
Had absolutely nothing to do with weather! So why were you talking about weather??
The controllers at JFK were under pressure from their bosses in Washington to land 33 landings an hour although the deteriorating weather conditions along the east coast were making it extremely difficult to do so.
Please leave out the needless distracting music