for those who are missing the entire point to put it shortly: creating a “new iteration” of a character doesn’t require you to change the core characteristics of said character to create a new story. the more you change the core of the character, the less that character is themselves the one we all know and love, the more they become unrecognizable.
THANK YOU!!! I've been saying this for MONTHS. An New Idea does NOT equate to a GOOD idea. You don't necessarily have to be a slave to the source material BUT if you're gonna replace it you have to replace it with something BETTER OR of EQUAL value...or else fans sre gonna be left with a GIANT WTF!? And asking why you didn't just leave it as it was Accolades are given for EXECUTION of an idea...NOT the idea itself. And Insomniac failed execution on multiple levels
I agree with what you said. The killer difference for me is that the original venom in the comics isn’t necessarily evil. Like you said he just hated Spider-Man, he typically didn’t even want to hurt other people unless they were in the way of him getting to Spider-Man, So much so that in the comics when Peter faked his death and made Venom believe he killed him, Venom literally retired to a remote island peacefully to live out his best life. He had no motivations to “ take over the world “or to create new symbiotes. In fact venom doesn’t even like the other symbiotes in his lineage.
@@thegreatacolyt1277 Rebuttal: VENOM out of all people told Black Cat to chill the hell out and stop trying to kill Spider-Man. He has a character more than _Unga Bunga I Munch And Roar_
I couldn’t agree with you more. In the first game, you could listen to voice tapes left by Dock Ock and you could tell that he is slowly going insane. But with Harry, he just kinda throws a fit when he gets the symbiote back
I feel like Peter’s actions with the black suit on and refusing to give it to Harry and telling him to “pop some more pills” and right after that Norman telling Peter he was like a second son, and Harry’s condition all contributed to Harry’s new rage towards Peter. And when Peter refused to give Harry the Symbiote back he snaps and becomes Venom. I will admit, the finale basically making Harry not in control of the Symbiote was a bit stupid and they should’ve killed Harry off at the end, but I kinda compare it to the end of Web of Shadows where Eddie lost control of Venom and in the final QTE he says how tired he is
@@captainzachary2477 I kinda agree with you but I feel that this hatred for Peter doesn’t last long after getting the suit back. For most of the symbiote takeover, venom is trying to get Peter to join him rather than trying to kill him which is what venom is supposed to want to do
He did not just “throw a fit”. Harry was dying. He was understanding at first as to how Peter had it, but Peter was becoming callous about his situation because of the suit and then when he came with Venom back to a hopeless Harry he mow decides he cant have it. Harry has been in a tank for years to stall his sickness. Without Venom he pretty much dies. He felt betrayed. This take is not that great.
Think a lotta you guys missed key dynamics between the two to not bridge together the changes due to symbiote n years of other unsolved trauma n issues ...
The best friend villain theme was already explored with Phin in Miles Morales. It would have been more interesting if they had explored a new theme, like how Peter/Spider-Man’s actions can have unforeseen consequences on strangers lives. Like a domino effect that eventually leads to Eddie Brock becoming Venom, all of which he sees as divine intervention. And with Harry dead without the symbiote, Peter would see Venom/Eddie as his own failure and inability to save everyone.
@@ScarletSpiderII but I always thought that both Eddie and Harry are pretty much the same person and I really don’t think Peter should be friends with them as they’re both theses self pity incels
Yeah initially doesn’t seem like a bad idea to make Harry venom. The hard thing is, Harry almost never can truly hate Peter the same way. Especially through the course of a game where it’s all going to happen very quick. Think he could’ve had good enough motivation if they leaned more into peter just letting him die and felt betrayed instead of the heal the world stuff. Kinda weird. The wings were wild too💀💀
the I found weird about Venom in ps5 spiderman is..... why did he call himself Venom? Really, Venom always called himself thus because he SPECIFICALLY said he's "poison" to spidey and Peter. He named himself for HIM, Spider-Man. He based his ENTIRE existence thusly to ruining Peters life in every aspect, his purpose is Spider-Man, in pain, hurt. Even his powers are counters to Spidey, his main one being the fact that he was the ONLY villain spidey could NEVER see coming, because he's immune to his spidey sense. He alone was able to get the drop on Spidey, and in some stories and games, he flat out can turn INVISIBLE, meaning Spidey could genuinely NEVER know when or where Venom is lurking, despite how big the guy is. All that said..... what Harry/Symbiote start calling himself Venom for? He isn't "poison to Spidey/Peter, he still thinks he's his best friend, and vice versa, to the point of being obsessed with him. In THAT regard, Venom is true to his character. However, he never declares himself an enemy, thus he cannot be "Venom", honestly I'm not sure the whole "Venom is immune to Spider Sense" thing is even touched on in the game. Dude keeps saying he'll "Heal the world", which...kinda is the opposite of what the traditional purpose of "Venom" is. Even his PURPOSE in the game is...counter to his name. He only ONCE goes after Mary Jane in the game, when he could've instead of making him fight Peter, could've used her as bait or a lure to get peter to join his side. "Look Peter, MJ likes it, join her, join US!" that could've been easy, but that's not the point of this, that's an entirely different tangent. In short: The name Venom for Harry just doesn't feel..... "earned", if that makes sense. Literally it's just: Harry: We.... are.. *Venom* Peter: ....why? Venom: What? Peter: why are you calling yourself 'Venom'? Do you have poison powers? Venom: ..no Peter: oh.... then... why? Venom: ...it sounds cool
I really tought of this. Back in the first mission with the black suit, when kraven stabs spiderman, he looks him in the eyes and says: ``youre not as venomous as they say´´. so maybe from all that hate that kraven and venom has that he pulled out the name, to show kraven, that he can ve venomous.
I suppose, but.... Peter wasn't even wearing the black suit at the time, so calling himself after a deadmans taunt that wasn't even directed at either Harry himself OR the symbiote is.....a long walk for a short drink of water@@fransisquito5832
I think there is a blink and you might miss it type detail or something Where the canister contains venoms says “VNM” then some numbers. That’s why he calls himself venom since the letters on his canister sort spell venom.
While I don't think they explained it well to anyone who doesn't read the comics, I think Venom acted as he did because of the meteorite, he was following the wishes of Knull, The God of The Symbiotes. That symbol swirly symbol is seen on the head of any symbiote that has been controlled by Knull's will. I think the main issue with your critique, is that you mostly only seem to know what happened in TAS and other tertiary media. Venom has a love/hate relationship with Peter, he's basically a scorned ex lover, who's totally nuts. He talks to Kraven about how he blames him for ruining his bond with Peter in the boss fight at the end. Venom wanted to stay bonded to Peter, and is convinced that if Kraven had not gotten in the way, they would still be together. The symbiote tells Harry that Peter betrayed him, and uses their shared scorn to convince Harry that Peter is his Enemy, meanwhile, both Harry and the Symbiote want to bring peter into the fold of the Hive mind because Harry loves Peter, despite being angry with him, as does the Symbiote. In the comics, it was Peter who taught the symbiote compassion, and that is largely why it loved him so much, and felt so betrayed by him. It took all the wrong steps, but it did what it believed was right by it's host. That's why it defended him from The Hunters and in the comics used his sleeping body as a puppet, fighting crime when he was asleep. The issue is that is lacked the understanding/humanity that peter fought with, and so it went too far and was too brutal with how it handled his villains/street thugs. Klyntar (Symbiotes) don't cause negative feelings, they amplify the ones that are already there. I think if we still get the Venom Solo game after that leak, that we will see Venom's true nature become apparent. Symbiotes are protectors and guardians, when not being corrupted by the influence of a King in Black / Symbiote God. I hope we see Eddie become the new/true Venom, because I think Eddie is such an amazing and flawed character, who doesn't give up on doing the work to better himself, no matter how many times he screws everything up. I want to see more realistically portrayed, deeply flawed people who make bad choices and do the work to be better, I loved those themes in MSM2, easily my favorite aspect of the game.
I get where you mean but I feel my point still stands as far as where are these core characteristics of venom? They aren’t present in the game. Most of not all of the other stuff you mentioned is extra and or things for after venom and spiderman make up. Some of the things you said I didn’t actually specifically know like the amplify negative feelings part so that’s cool to now know! But Venom initially when born wanted to murder spider-man. That wasn’t here whatsoever.
@@ScarletSpiderII I think you’ll find the “boosting negative emotions part” was something the cartoon made up, and it was such a cool idea that it was approved by Stan Lee, though it should be noted that, in the original story, the Symbiote did not amplify negative feelings.
Outside of any media influence, taking the series in a vacuum, MSM2 was a bad story. Motivations were unclear, the symbiote being used to heal something was unfounded when they only saw it take Connors arm, Norman blaming Spider-Man for his own failures was a stretch, Pete being nerfed compared to Miles was annoying, MJ being OP is weird, Pete being antiVenom and that being left at that is also weird. This game felt like a checklist of things and not organic at all, whereas the 1st game felt like the complete opposite.
the anti venom is nessary due to miles venom abilties for gameplay mechanic balanceing but they could have explainedit more organically but they simply did not have the time to make the very long story they wanted to @@KiD1515
I was not a fan of the idea of Harry being the host since Eddie is such an important step for Venom. But they had everything to make it work with Harry still being the host. Peter legit abandoned him and left him to die without his only cure and once he finally come back with it, he planned to destroy it. They could have used that to explain why Harry and the symbiote would want to go on a vendetta againts Spider-man.
The thing is that venom hates peter, but harry not, and the reason harry lets venom do what he wants is because he thinks he's healing the world, because the symbiote make him healthy, so harry wants to share that "gift" for everyone
They had everything yo make it work with Harry still being the host. Peter legit abandoned him and left him to die without his only cure and once he finally come back with it, he plan to destroy it. They could have used that to explain why Harry and the symbiote would want to go on a vendetta againts Spider-man.
In this version, venom doesn't hate peter. Not in the slightest, I have no clue why people get that conception when at every given opportunity, venom tries to appeal to peter lmao
For me the problem isn't that Eddie Brock didn't turn out to be Venom, for me it's that they didn't develop Venom whatsoever in this game, it just turned out to be a generic villain who wants to take over the world, where Venom should actually be a character that is opposite to Spider-Man, a character that hates the Spider-Man, but in this game it's actually quite the opposite, since Venom wants Peter to join him or something. If anything though, I'd want Kraven as Venom in this game
Not a good idea. Kraven's whole shtick is that he wants to earn the hunt. Him being Venom would be cheating in his own eyes. Plus, Peter needs a personal connection with both the Symbiote(Peter being the Original host) and the new host.. Kraven has no personal connection to him. Harry does. BUT Hary doesn't work either since the host's motivation needs to be their almost Petty level of hate towards Peter Parker and Spider-Man. That is why Eddie is the best choice.
The entire point Venom doesn't hate Peter is because Harry doesn't hate Peter. Even in the video when you talk about how Venom and Eddie are bonded through hatred, Venom and Harry are bonded through "healing" the world. It's not the same person so their motivations are obviously going to be different. I feel like it's unfair to compare the Venoms when it's not even the same person in possession of it. If Venom were to just hate Spider-Man anywhere near Eddie's level it'd disregard the effect the host has on it entirely and just be Eddie with pills.
It’s not unfair because this venom sucks ass and that is exactly why he sucks because he doesn’t hate spiderman. Thats the venom we all know and love imo.
@@demilord2668 At that point, aren't you just calling Venom any villain with a black symbiote? At the end of the day, Sony bastardized the character by just reducing Venom down to his aesthetic and not his backstory or key characteristics. It's like making Matt Murdock Spider-Man despite them being completely different people with different stories and goals.
@@malvunctiongamers3141 Just because it didn't bond with Venom and become a hateful obsessive monster doesn't mean they bastardized it. That type of Venom is Eddie's, not Harry's. Also Vernon has been worn by people like Flash Thompson, I don't think that analogy works on Venom
I think that’s his point though. That because the motivation is so different, “Venom” ISN’T Venom in Spider-Man 2 PS5 aka the title of the video. So if this version of Harry hated Spider-Man say because he “killed his Dad” like in the “2002” film or something, then it would feel more like Venom.
THANK YOU for this video. I’ve been screaming this from the rooftops. The one thing I was hoping you’d get into is the aesthetics of Venom. Modern media leans more gooey hulk monster these days instead of Spider-Man’s evil counterpart who shoots webs. I didn’t see any webs shot from insomniacs venom. It’s all tentacle galore with him and Sonys movie venom
@bigevil1001 what this original comment describes that they want is literally Venom from SM 3... lol. The most comic accurate Venom we've had and everyone is too dumb to notice
@@idiot_city5444 there are aesthetic problems with the SM3 venom but in ways more accurate than hardys. The best venom is the 90s animated series Venom. No one has taken that crown.
I think they should’ve built on the whole thing of Peter being the son Norman always wanted. Show that in the flashbacks and present. Would’ve given Harry the jealousy and hatred of Peter more. They showed Norman calling Peter a son but I think they should’ve built on that earlier. And one of my favorite things about the symbiote is that they’re pretty much like a jealous ex-girlfriend 😂. Peter rejected them and the symbiote cant move on lmao. Wish Insomniac did that with their Venom.
The difference with insomniacs venom is he’s not driven by hatred towards Spiderman, harry and the symbiote feel rejected by Peter as Peter didn’t need the symbiote and has miles now so he doesn’t “need” harry. It’s the feeling of rejection that brings the obsession for trying to assimilate Peter back into the symbiote through his and Harry’s shared goal of saving the world. The symbiote takes this approach because if it is “saving the world” and being a hero it aligns with Spider-Man’s goal to save the city, in which the two agree and reunite. Personally I think I think this video essay takes a purist mentality which overshadows what insomniac actually did.
If he's not driven by hatred he has 0 reasons whatsoever to call himself venom so this literally can't be the same character, its not about purity its about carrying the core elements of a character if you're going to adapt them. The name is symbolic...because story telling? themes? character motivations...you know things that actually skilled writers should be proficient in.
I feel like the problem isn’t that Venom doesn’t feel like Venom. I personally liked him in this game and I thought it was pretty cool how he convinced Harry that Peter betrayed him by using his mother’s voice. I think the problem is that they tried to put Kraven and Venom in the same game as “main villains”. Most of the game is centered around Kraven and his story and it kinda pushes Harry and Venom to the side until the last hours or so of the game so we don’t really get any of the buildup towards him. And yes, there is technically some amount of buildup, but not as much as we got with Doctor Octopus in Spider-Man 1.
He didn't say that in the comics. You also stopped right before we got to the really good stuff, which is why I guess you think Venom is a villain and think that revenge is the core? While I will be focusing on Eddie, (as the symbiote would have me have to explain Flash, the Agents of the Cosmos and Knull completely) Venom's core is redemption in the comics. Eddie would give up the symbiote and it would end up on Mac who would start a lot stereotypes Venom is known for (like actually eating people), while Eddie would further his redemption arc. At first it was slow becoming Anti-Venom and largely just being a more heroic take on his 90s self, however once Flash got involved and became Agent Venom? He stood up for both the symbiote and Eddie and laid into Peter for him holding a grudge, Peter and Eddie would finally bury the hatchet, while Eddie went full on hero. Then we got Donny's run which the game pulls from but makes everything they use be used opposite from its context like Venom's wings. Like its the climax of Eddie's character development, to the point Eddie becomes worthy of Thor's hammer and becoming Captain Universe but the game just misses the point of the stuff its using. Be it the Agent Venom design, the spirals that are supposed to represent mind control for symbiotes, Anti-Venom, etc. Also what makes Venom during his anti-villain days special is how obsessive his in killing Peter and of innocence, they're not your typical revenge focused villain they ONLY want to punish Peter, that means no attacking MJ, or Aunt May or his fake robot parents Harry built to get revenge. So I don't really like that idea though I will grant you it is more in character for Harry than the symbiote. TDLR: Venom is the original Spidey spinoff character not a villain, his comics are great and outsell Peter's please give them a chance.
i get what you mean with the redemption arc but for this game venom shouldve just been a villain and then he can have his own game of him being an anti hero i do understand where ur coming from, but imo venom is a villain to spider-man thats literally just how he was created. he was created to be a literal opposite copy of spider-man that wants nothing but his destruction, until eventually what ur talking about the redemption arc and this game does the origin of venom and this origin of venom wasnt great cus it didnt have those core characteristics of when venom and why venom is birthed hopefully i wordedd that better, but everyones viewpoints are different this is just personally why it didnt work for me and many other venom fans out in the world!
also venoms comics outsell peters currently only because what marvel editorial is doing wiht spider-man is horrendous!! if it was anything like that new ultimate run (even tho we havent read it yet) i gurantee it would sell more than venom imo.
@@ScarletSpiderII No its alright and I do agree Venom should should start out villainous. I just wanted to make clear that there was far more to the character than just revenge and that he hasn't been a villain for years. Either way SM2 Venom is horrible and the worst adaption so far. Also Donny's run was outselling Nick's which was considered a return to form before Marvel pulled the plug on him because he was trying to undo OMD, so this isn't a new development because of the current awful run.
I think its just there are two types of venom, the venom that is his own character in need of a host that you talk about, and venom that works for knull to take over the universe with an army of symbiotes like in the game
I never had a problem with it being Harry. I feel like the way venom functions, it invites different adaptations of it binding to other characters. I think the execution was just really poor, and i didn't like all the new powers and stuff. The fact that it can just take over a city, ignore fire, and the devil wings just killed me. I pretty much agree with every other thing you said. I liked your proposed alternate motivations for Harry. They were baked right into the cake of Insomniacs own narrative and they chose not to go with it. Swing and a miss
I'm so happy to see more honest non-biased reviews of this mixed bag sequel. Thank you so much for that. Even Cosmonaut & Godzilla Mendoza aren't sugar-coating this.
This completely changed the way I looked at venom in the insomniac version. I think I was just too blinded by excitement and I didn't realise how the game could've been better. I still enjoyed Spiderman 2 and I will still enjoy it but I'm glad you brought this into light.
I feel like people are hating on insomniac venom too much. I like the approach that they took making venom truly evil and making him wanting to take over the well worked well in my opintion. I understand the emotional lack but I feel like an alien symbiote who came to earth in a meteorite is allowed to be scary without emotions.
Spiderman The Animated Series was so based with the comic source material accuracies. I wish that they had an extra season to adapt the Life Foundation Symbiotes.
I agree that the game should've had more time spending on bonding with Harry, and in the second act needing more urgency in the need of the suit back. I felt like crying during the Howard side mission than the final boss. And from what I heard, this story went flat cause they pulled a Disney and switched writers. Don't quote me on that, I just heard. Now something I do have to point out is, of course this isn't the venom we grew up with. Just like how the advanced suit isn't the suit we grew up with, Insom making us want Otto to NOT become Doc Ock, skipping the repeated backstory, especially with how this game ended with Peter having a permanent Anti-Venom suit. Insomniac is taking risks in trying new things. And no, they should not make Eddie venom, everyone, including yourself, would end up question where he came from, why he's here etc etc. Yes I agree that we didn't get motivations for Venom killing or hurting spider-man. The game definitely should've been longer because these ideas could help it: -Have Miles bond with Harry (Both lost a parent to something they couldn't prevent, but now they both have the thing to prevent it ever repeating again) -Spend more time developing Peter and Harry's friendship, and show some negatives here and there (Agree with Harry talking about how Peter cared more about his identity and saving the city than keeping Harry alive with the symbiote). -And a minor thing, give us a scene of Miles making the evolved suit (With a slightly better design, I'm already fine with the current one) like maybe his previous suit can't handle his evolved Lightning powers so he made one that could handle it.
No ur right about the writers part they had COMIC BOOK writers on spiderman ps4!! They didn’t have any for this game. They almost didn’t include aunt may in spiderman PS4 until a comic writer said no you can’t do that YOU NEED to include her in the game, I forgot who it was.
@@ScarletSpiderII Right?! They pulled a bloody Disney! Should've kept the comic book writers on instead of repeating TLJ's mistake. Then maybe, *just maybe* the game could've gotten GOTY (maybe that's a reach as the company also rushed the games production)
@@ScarletSpiderIIThey included Aunt May in spider man 2 ps5. Where she was explaining Peter about the balance. Peter finally found that balance in the end, the theme is justified. But I think in the 3rd game, he will learn that he has to be Spider-Man while balancing his normal life.
In this game I think it's acceptable that Harry Osborn is Venom, but if they make a Venom solo game I think either Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson should be Venoms new host.
crazy theory, eddie didnt need to be venom but they could have referenced and used the exact sequence peter gets the symbiote back at the beginning of web of shadows where it partly comes off venom and then thats how we got the black suit back in this game after we remove it, and then kept antivenom for a bigger martin li arc helping the spidermen take down venom then harry becomes antivenom. they have the brain power to execute that ina very cool way i know they do but hey we got what we got plus we know the studio was rushed to put this out
What people don't seem to realize is that Venom is not the same being as the symbiote. He is the combination of Eddie and the symbiote. And the writers clearly can't understand such a complex concept. Also he was big and buff because Eddie was working out like a madman. Here he is just huge because reasons.
Thank you for this. Im starting to think more and more people are realising this since the game's been out for a while now. This version was extremely disappointing. A "new take" on venom that takes away everything that makes him unique. This is the only interpretation of venom that could be misconstrued with any of spidey's other villians when naming their motivations, and that's just sad. And it pains me that some think this js unironically "one of the best interpretations of venom", because it just tells me they have no clue what the character actually entales
While I think that this is definitely not the best venom I don’t think it’s bad and the “pure hatred towards Peter” is replaced with the feeling of wanting to join Harry in healing the world bc both of them want Harry to join the symbiote
@@laughing_arbiter the thing is, it isn't venom. It just isn't. The only reason they used venom here is to garner hype. You can't call it a "new take on the same character" if it's not the same character whatsoever, there's barely any resemblance
@@lm_slayer1Its just Venom in name and appearance only. Like I told a buddy of mine Venom feels more like Carnage and switching the Symbiotes would've have made way more since
Imagine thinking Venom hates Spider-man more than Green Goblin or Doc Ock. Not only that in Amazing Spider-man 317 The Symbiote literally abandons Brock when Peter offers himself to it.
The symbiote hates spiderman because the symbiote can’t have spiderman unless they magically for some reason decide to rebind temporarily like when he fought red goblin otherwise the symbiote hates peter more than any other villain IMO
Imagine if they stepped away from the Planet of Symbiotes concept and tried to invest more into showing Pete’s and Harry’s friendship and then inverting it into making Harry driven by symbiote hurt Peter so badly and in the end realising his own damage refusing to bond with it anymore and give the symbiote for smb like Eddie or even Kraven Honestly it really felt that 1) Harry SHOULD NOT have been a main host considering him being a best friend and not being a real menace to Spider-Men (like was shown in mini boss fight clip that looked crazy) 2) Peter was severely nerfed without any reason so the symbiote becomes really messy with his head and not being able to realize all the side effects of wearing a suit by himself 3) Overall i really couldn’t empathize with symbiote’s motivation of making everyone bond with his “children” ‘cause it wasn’t explained by any means I guess if they at least said smth like his home was destroyed or he wants to come back on people who kept him in the tank for many years it would make more sense
I think how the symbiote works in the game is that it’ll try to give you what you want in a twisted way for example Peter wanted to be the best hero he can be so venom tried to do that in a way by making Peter willing to kill and for Harry he wanted to cured the world or make it a better place so venom tried to do that by turning everyone into symbiotes making so there is no more diseases and no more weakness but this is my opinion so feel free to tell me I’m wrong
Though i depends on the venom you are going for, Tom Hardy’s venom got the heroic side good, while this venom does the evil version better (not saying it’s a perfect evil venom but it is better at being evil)
@@ScarletSpiderII Id say their pretty even tom hardy's venom (not Eddie brock) embodying some of the goofiness of the character from 90s though introducing a whole other list of problems while insomniacs venom embodies the spiderman origin but thats about it this venom is about as mid as the 2017 venom
Another issue I see is these rather rapid fire of close connection villains but don't know how to balance them, which makes it kinda odd. The first Spider-man game had two mentors turned villains, but with those two cases, they had their own reasons and believed to be the best way to fight their enemy, so they kinda worked as two plots. A co-worker turning villain in Wraith was kinda odd in the DLC, and I don't think that the approach they went with really helped. And now Miles Morales and Spider-man 2 both have best friends becoming villains where Miles kinda messes up the story. Miles' whole thing in Spider-man 2 is his quest for revenge for killing his dad. Which is completely undermined by the fact he spent most of his DLC game stopping his best friend from doing the exact same thing. So Harry's friendship with Peter is battling Miles being Peter's student. Which,Miles gets priority over as he's the second main character. Harry could have broken through to Pete to get the suit off. Harry could have spent time questioning if it would be better to die or take the risk of wearing the suit, and it takes over him. Kraven could have kidnapped Harry as bait and tortured him to not only fuel Peter's rage but make Harry more afraid and angry to push him into wanting the suit back. But instead, we need to spend time giving Miles attention not only in his slight jealousy at the start but he needs to save Spider-man because he is also Spider-man. He needs something to make him worth putting into the game. Just make him spend the game wanting revenge on Li with absolutely nothing about Phin making any impact on his decision in the slightest that it may as well didn't happen. In terms of in relation to story, I don't think Phin is even brought up. As a whole, I think that there is a bit of a rush and trying through things. And I don't see it getting much better in the third game. Especially if they want Doc Ock and Green Goblin teaming up and they want Carnage assuming he isn't the DLC villain who are mostly angry at the Spider-man. It all depends on what route they take with it, but I'll think that it will face the same issue of too many people fighting for the spotlight. Thankfully, Otto and Norman are already established and have been built upon. But it still depends on how much they want surrounding characters to interfere in the story, especially if they want Miles as the Spider-man. He'll need something to justify his existence.
Insomniac don't know that Venom isn't anyone bonded to the symbiote. It's Eddie bonded to the symbiote that makes Venom. There is no nice way to say it they're in all honesty idiots
Swapping out Eddie Brock with Harry Osborn was an excellent move on Insomniac’s part because the writing on his arc is nearly flawless. Harry was a dying man who wanted to heal the world, and the symbiote offered him a twisted version of that dream through turning others into symbiote infected zombies. The game made Venom more than just a stalker out to kill Spider-Man. Venom was actually a threat to the safety of not only New York City but the entire planet. And his relations with Peter (being that Harry is his best friend) as well his motivations makes Venom a very sympathetic character.
@@ScarletSpiderII People only complain because it's not Eddie Brock. Like not every Venom has to be Eddie Brock. Others have been Venom in the comics like Mac Gargan, and Flash Thompson.
@@Shahriyararin63Eddie is the definitive version of Venom tho .. Otto doesn’t have to Doc Ock, Norman doesn’t have to be Green Goblin, Adrian Toomes doesn’t have to be Vulture then .. Why do those villains get to be them but not Eddie? Venom isn’t meant to be sympathetic. You clearly don’t understand the character just like Insomniac.
@@Shahriyararin63 Fr. If Eddie just popped out of nowhere to become Venom, everyone would complain of it being out of nowhere. No buildup or anything. Just nostalgia bait.
I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who picked up on this. Big miss especially since the setup was there with Peter “stealing” the suit! Could have been amazing and made a great story. Man this video is great!
@@Gabers_Animation I do have to wonder why you only 'somewhat' get it when the previous dude is spitting. We see first hand in the game that harry when temporarily woken up from the symbiotes control has literally no idea whats going on. He's a hostage, possessed against his will and has no control whatsoever
I honestly think the game's story was close to being great and had a lot of the right ingredients, but was kinda afraid of really going all in with its potential specifically with Venom. I don't even think the symbiote invasion was a bad idea on paper, the problem was the context of the invasion and Venom acting like an evil monster trying to take over the world. Since you talked about how you would've done Venom, I should share some ideas for how I would rewrite the character while keeping Harry as the host. Something I think would've really improved the story without straying away from what we got too much is having the Venom symbiote talk to Peter during the black suit arc. I mean the symbiote having actual conversations with Peter and not just tempting him. It could really flesh out Venom's character and develop a deep emotional connection between the symbiote and Peter. Then once we get to the symbiote invasion, Venom would genuinly want to help Harry heal the word by giving everyone symbiote powers. But the conflict comes from that his way of healing the world isn't the right way and very unnatural. Also, I have an idea on how Venom's relationship with Peter can depend on the player's actions. How I would do this is making an unusual change to the symbiote Peter boss fight and I'm not gonna explain it here since it'll fill the comments section. But let's just say you would have to make a choice which will result in either Harry as Venom wanting Peter to be with him like what we got or Harry as Venom hating Peter similar to the classic Venom from the comics. I'm making a short series of Reddit posts on how I would improve Venom's character and I already made two if anyone wants more context on my idea. But the point I'm getting at a lot the problems with Insomniac Venom can be fixable while keeping Harry as the host and the symbiote invasion as the third act.
I think the idea was that Harry wanted to heal the world and venom made him think spreading the symbiote globally would remove disease and pain and heal the world until after the scream fight, he realized it wouldn’t
I honestly think they cooked with spiderman 2. Although i do see your point. It probably would have been better with eddie brock as venom and have him like the ruthless venom we saw in the movies. But maybe they were just building it up for the third installment when harry or osborn become green goblin. So harry does have a lot of hatred towards peter and wants to kill him for good.
@@ScarletSpiderIIhe still wanted to bond with Peter but instead of taking on Eddie’s pure hatred he took on Harry’s desire to heal the world and wanted Peter to be a part of it
I appreciate this video because it gives me a new perspective on why people don't like this interpretation of venom. Having said that while I don't think this interpretation of venom is perfect because it needed more time in the oven to really flesh out this interpretation of venom ultimately I think insomniac did a fine job with the symbiotes/venom because it's clear as day if you ever read chip zdarsky 's spider Shadow in terms of interpretation because the way how the symbiote manipulate and takes concepts and ideas that a person has and twisting it into something dark is exactly what that book touches upon (hell even near the end of that book it becomes Web of shadows so there's that) which I think both that book and Spider-Man 2 does really well for the story they're trying to tell. So while it is not a traditional venom that we're all used to It is an interpretation of venom that aligns with the comics and I think it worked but it could have been explored more. Hopefully when we get that venom game he'll be either more fleshed out or will be more in line with the Eddie Brock interpretation of the character.
It aligns with the spider shadow comics that’s the what if comic where spiderman becomes venom right? I love that comic but this is nothing like that imo at least 😭 similar but very different and portly written compared to that comic
@@ScarletSpiderII I wouldn't say poorly written because the objective of the symbiotes and both Spider-Man 2 and spider Shadow is literally one for one hence why I said insomniac must have been inspired by that venom And also some MCU energy because the MCU does not follow the comics characters one-for-one either so there's that. At the end of the day they just really needed to flush out this venom I think he's fine and looks really cool but he needed more time in the oven.
@@robertkenny1201 I don't think that's going to happen either I think we might get Eddie Brock considering the fact that there was a cut concept art where MJ went to the daily bugle around the time The symbiote invasion happened so they might take that concept and remix it
Tots agree. An important motivating factor for venom is the symbiote's personal knowledge of peters weaknesses including hus identity and peter rejecting it. On top of that eddie brock's character arc was meant to be representative of the of the whole " with great power comes great responsibility" thing and its lessons. His misuse of the symbiote's power and willingness to embrace its dark side was meant to demostrate the difference between him and peter. Peter was conflicted by the suit's power and the lack of control in exchange for the greater power made him question his own motives. The symbiote is also a metaphor for drugs, alchohol, steroids, power or influence and how it can change a person. In comparison peter had a internal compass that cause him to be grounded even when he received his base while eddie with even more power immediately used it to the extreme of his personal benefit. Harry is just really a scared sick guy that got highjacked by a stronger force whereas brock was a capable person that felt entitled to more just because he always felt as if he was better than others. The fact the harry needed it to live and would not have become a bad person had he never got the symbiote undermines the themes and messages that venom was created to convey. The idea that all that glitters isnt gold doesnt apply to harry because the symbiote kept him alive and gave him a chance at normalcy not just power stacked upon an already fully capable person
Even though i really liked venom in spiderman 2 i was dissapointed because of the false advertisement of the CGI trailee "be greater together" where Venom is absolutely ruthless and a threat and in the game the only time he was ruthless was when he killed kraven aside from that he didnt feel like a threat
Venom in Spider-Man 2 IS OBSESSED with Peter and a lot of y’all dont understand that aspect. Sure, Venom is using Harry as a puppet but throughout the entire final act Venom keeps trying to convince Peter to join him because he sees Peter as his perfect match. Venom taking over the world is the same thing as trying to kill Spider-Man in the sense of “if I can’t have Spider-Man then nobody can” it’s the same Venom written in a different way because Insomniac wants their story to be DIFFERENT. That’s what they did and they also made Venom really really SCARY compared to the normal Venom that we got and I gotta say I love it because it shows how menacing Venom is as a character and why we shouldnt get in between him and Spider-Man. Y’all like to try to break down certain characters by how they were in the comics without thinking about the fact that there are TWO different writers and Insomniac has stated time and time again how they wanted to write Stan Lee’s characters in their own way. They literally stated from the beginning that these characters would be different and y’all still wanna continue to talk bad about them instead of realizing that Insomniac didn’t want to attempt to make the masterpieces that Stan Lee had done, instead, they want to write these characters the way that they saw them and what they perceived them to be after Stan Lee created them.
just because it’s different doesn’t mean they executed it good AND doesn’t mean they had to stray away from core character traits and what makes the character themselves thus making the characters almost unrecognizable.
@@ScarletSpiderII yes, I agree they could’ve done him better, but, I’m not gonna say that this Venom is a disgrace to Venom in general. There was a lot of the Spider-Man 2 story that is just hidden and you’ve gotta look for it to find it and therefore the story was executed poorly because most people aren’t going to pick up on things like that
Spider-Man fans when insomniac wants to change things up and not follow the traditional comics that have done the exact same thing twelve thousand times: 😱
8:55 No. that wasn’t it. - Flashback Mission - Introduction to EMF - Coney Island - Saving Tombstone - Peter’s temporary death Otto’s entire screen time was literally less than 2/3 of Harry’s time BEFORE becoming Venom.
this is so tru, now that hype & everything is gon the game is just almost like "yea it was good, but they could've did 10x better" maybe we'll get something like comic book accurate venom in the next game somehow & maybe do somethin w carnage as well, if they don't use him in the dlc
I was extremely hyped for Venom being in Spider-Man 2 because I thought he was going to finally be the Lethal Protector version of the character. I love Spider-Man, I have played Spider-Man games, but we have never had a free-roaming game where you get to play as the Lethal Protector version of Venom.
I think it would have been more impactful if we had some scenes showing how harry struggles after losing the sympiote and showing us how he's really sick and slowly dying so we can see how he's really desperate to get the sympiote back
Hey man quick tip on your background music. You gotta have background audio that matches with your voice. You’re speaking in a relaxed and quiet manner, but you’re using a trap beat with hi-hats and bass that are constantly peaking over your voice. The point of background music is to stay in the background there’s numerous times where I start hearing the music more than your voice. Just switch up the music to where in flows with your flow and make sure it doesn’t take over your voice.
I mean most people enjoy, I usually try to listen back and make sure my voice is loud enough but maybe sometimes I am talking quiet tho I appreciate the feedback!!
I think the real problem is the fact they had to cut so much of the second half of the game. They probably didn’t want everything they were trying to do in this game and save it for something else that’ll be paid for.
Yea but still if what’s in the game rn was the general basis of their idea of venom as far as him being a VILLAIN there’s no possible way it could’ve been any better.. yea they cut a lot out but like I doubt it would drastically change the outcome considering the basis of their venom there’s nothing good there everything I discussed in this vid that venom should be isn’t in the game already and I doubt they would’ve added any of that anyway if that made any sense
They honestly tried to put too much into the story, IMO. they could of done so much better, Dont get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed the game myself. And I do consider this a venom (especially after venomverse comics) But they put too much that could of been done later, either in another game or dlc. but instead they kill venom off. The whole knull symbiotes, grendels wings (Was not earned) As scar says, they could of added so much more strife and reason for harry to turn on pete. then again they basically made the symbiote give most influence over harry. I would of loved to see atleast the symbiote alive at the end, so maybe it could eventually bond to someone else, that actually does harbor a pure hatred for pete. This was just a major flop on that part.
@@zero1872001 I don’t know if venom is actually killed off, there has to be some story explanation for why symbiotes are still running around after the ending. I know carnage is still out there also, there are a few ways they can have the venom symbiote bond to someone else. I’m almost positive they’re doing a Venom game, and I’d imagine it’s after the events of SM2.
@@zero1872001 plus Tony Todd said like 10% of his lines were used, so most likely saved for something else, and venom didn’t do anything before he bonded w Harry and Peter.
The other symbiotes are not venom though.If that were the case, carnage wouldnt be around either. the way they did it, was antivenom destroyed every cell of the venom symbiote. but guess we will see.. @@addyznxanyzz3179 as i have stated before, they might do the whole codex ordeal as well. to bring him back.
I think the first time (and only other time) Harry was Venom, in Ultimate Spider-Man (the cartoon) was executed a lot better. Harry had a motivation (seeking his father's approval) and was able to fight back when the symbiote took control, though only for short moments
I honestly think if the leak about the venom solo game is true then this game was more so Venom’s introduction to the insomiacverse which is a shame cause there could have been more. We get time to bond with Harry and see the symbiote really bring out the worst in Peter but once we get the big guy himself there isn’t really much outside of what to expect. Alright we’re pretty quickly building up to the final battle where Peter has to confront him abandoning and trying to save his best friend while combatting what is essentially a demon who almost made him ruin his own life. We see Peter throughout the symbiote invasion arc really be forced to confront his mistakes (taking MJ for granted) and confront some of the pain he still has from Aunt May’s death. Once Venom is defeated Peter takes a much needed break from Spider-Man, Miles takes on more responsibility and we get Green Goblin set up for game 3. This is all fine but I genuinely think there should have been more during this arc and with Venom. We could have gotten more of the obscure symbiotes being boss fights to give the symbiote invasion more time to be fleshed out, missions with venom himself to learn more about him. Maybe set up a possible anti hero arc later on by showing Venom is more or less a puppet for Knull and we could see hints he wants more than to be a parasite but follows what he’s been told. Just feel there should have been more but I still enjoy the game.
Yea but there’s a difference from venom and then when peter is the first person bonded.. once the VENOM HOST and the symbiote are bonded there isn’t really the symbiote taking over it’s more of a combined effort between the host and the symbiote they are pretty much in sync so.. not sure where ur going with that bro
i think if they ddn't use venoms name then this would be a good villain the problem is they don't explain enough and they don't do the whole syboise thing perfect harmony stuff so the "we" in "we are venom" doesn't work it should have been "I am venom" because in the venom let their be carnage movie venom dose takeover a few humans
Eddie being venom is a bit hard to take seriously. Like my guy loses one job and decides he’s gonna go kill the guy. That’s just crazy it’s established through a ton of continuities that Peter is the perfect host so why on earth does the symbiote want to kill Peter? I’m a huge venom fan btw but it doesn’t really make much sense.
@@ScarletSpiderII it just seems like a weak motive/goal. Like this creature has the capacity to “heal the world” it has near infinite knowledge due to its hive mind. It augments its host physically to almost immortal levels. Like the amount of tech and understanding humanity could have access to is unparalleled. I’ve seen fanfic writers make the symbiote far more interesting and compelling compared to official cannon writers.
@@jamiebowler4693 Because that's the entire point behind the character. Eddie's reasoning for hating Spider-Man is weak because Eddie himself is a resentful person who doesn't take responsibility for the choices he's made in life and instead blames another person for his own failures. That's what makes Venom a dark reflection of Spider-Man: he has all of Peter's power, but not the sense of responsibility Spider-Man posseses. It's literally what would happen if the symbiote attached itself to someone who doesn't have the same morals as the main hero and totally hates him.
Yeah, I’m starting to see why fans are mixed with this game, especially with Venom. I posted this in another video, but I think I have a solution to the Venom problem. And it involves some changes. 1. Give Peter and Miles separate game modes. So that their story arcs aren’t crammed together. Maybe get them to work together briefly in one mission. 2. Make the game longer. So we can spend more time with the characters. 3. Add Eddie Brock into the story. 4. Don’t have the symbiotes fully control characters. Just only let them release their negative emotions. Now, onto Venom. Eddie Brock, like Harry, would come back into Peter’s life. Through flashbacks, we learn that Brock used to work at the Daily Bugle, had a fiancée, and a successful news show. One day, he met Peter, and taking a liking to him, gave Peter the opportunity to work at the Bugle. This led to Peter becoming a photographer. However, due to Spider-Man’s growing popularity, and Peter’s photos of Spider-Man selling more money, Eddie begins to lose views on his show. Desperate, he faked a photo using his fiancée’s computer, since she works as an editor, and made it look like Spider-Man was a crook. However, Peter learned it was fake, and was a copy of his photo. This led to Eddie getting fired, losing his engagement, and his show getting cancelled. This led to Brock leaving New York to San Francisco. 9 years later, he comes back after San Francisco left him jobless, and he tries to get his old job back. But Jameson won’t trust him, until they both learn of the Emily May Foundation, and since it’s an Oscorp facility, Brock offers to try to find something on the foundation, and Jameson decides to give him one last chance. As he leaves, he runs into MJ, and the two talk, and after learning that she’s Peter’s girlfriend, decides to spite him. He talks about Peter with MJ, telling her about how he and Peter were pals, until Peter “betrayed” him, and as he tells her that he’s gonna throw her away when he’s done using her, he endangers their safety in traffic, leading to MJ to tell him “Peter may not be perfect, but he’s twice the guy you’ll ever be.” before leaving. This angers Brock, but his words do plant the seeds of MJ’s insecurities with Peter. Eddie would go into the Emily May Foundation, and he runs into Peter. At first, Brock wants nothing to do with him, but Peter tries to apologize about years ago. Brock just tells him to keep his sympathy, saying that Parker doesn’t deserve sympathy. During his stay at the foundation, he sees a military uniform in the hallway. Later, he breaks in, and finds that the uniform is missing, and seeing black goo on it, begins to suspect something. He’s been trying to figure out where Spider-Man got the new look and powers, and went back to the foundation, seeing the uniform gone. This leads to him getting suspicious of the foundation even more. He then runs into Harry, and the two chat, until Brock brings up the exact same thing he told MJ. Harry doesn’t believe that, but when Peter refuses to give him the symbiote, he begins to believe that. So does MJ, which leads to her trying to prove herself by finding Kraven’s location, getting herself captured. This also leads to Harry telling his dad he knows where the symbiote is, leading to Norman getting his security to hunt Spider-Man, by any means necessary. Eventually, after Peter got the symbiote off, he goes to Oscorp to destroy it. Eddie, who broke in to find something on the foundation, learns that Peter is Spider-Man as a result. Harry also comes in, and after Peter webs up Eddie, he tells Harry they have to destroy the Symbiote. Enraged, Harry swings his cane at Peter, who dodged, but dropped the container as a result, cracking it. This leads to the Symbiote breaking out, knocking both of them away. It then heads towards the webbed up Brock, and jumps at his face, bonding with him as a result. Eddie then breaks out of the webbing, attacks Spider-Man, and throws him to the side, and Norman sends security to get it off of Brock. Brock rampages through Oscorp, and kills the last remaining hunters, before fighting Kraven. After killing him, Eddie is horrified, and thinks of what he’s done. The Symbiote then talks with Eddie, and the two decide to make a bond to get revenge on Peter for ruining Eddie’s life and rejecting the Symbiote. Now known as Venom, he attacks Peter the next morning, and the two have a brief fight, before Brock reveals he’s gonna take everything he loves from him, like he did with him. He starts off with stalking Harry, who is dying in the hospital, and Peter fights Eddie to keep him away from Harry. However, Eddie disappears. Eddie then goes to where Peter lives, and he confronts Peter and MJ, and we get the “We are Venom” line. Then, Venom reproduces the Scream Symbiote, who forcibly bonds with MJ, leading to her fighting Spider-Man. Venom would watch Peter and MJ have their couples counseling across the neighborhood, which is empty due to Scream unleashing the symbiote around it. Venom then leaves after Scream is defeated. This is when Peter decides to fight back. He and MJ set up a plan to separate Eddie from the symbiote, but there’s one problem. Connors told Spider-Man that Eddie and the symbiote are a perfect match, meaning that the only way to stop Venom is to kill Eddie. Not wanting Brock to die, he and MJ try to find a way that doesn’t involve killing him. This is when the final boss happens, and it’s in 4 phases. Brock comes back into his apartment, only to find his place filled with newspapers of him getting fired, and him stealing the symbiote. Thanks to MJ getting old newspapers of Brock fired, and Harry revealing the truth about Venom, who was assumed to be Spider-Man now a monster, Peter redecorated the place. Enraged, Venom chases him, which leads to a chase while playing as Venom. Finally, they reach the top of the daily bugle, where Spider-Man and Venom fight on. Spidey tries to tell Eddie that he needs to remove the symbiote, and tries to talk with Eddie to try to get him to come to his senses, but Brock won’t listen, calling Peter out on ruining his life, how “we gave you what you needed, and you THREW us away!” The fight ends with Venom overpowering Peter, and seeing Jameson below, plans to remove Spider-Man’s mask. However, Peter says “It doesn’t matter what you do to me. It won’t fix your life. Not like this.” Venom growls before saying “Well, get ready for your closeup, Pete.” However, before he could remove his mask, MJ tases Venom, giving Peter the chance to escape. But this leads to Venom kidnapping MJ, and fleeing to the foundation. Webbing her up, he continues to fight Peter, which continues outside and into the nearby church. This is what Peter and MJ planned. They planned to lure Venom to the bell tower in order to separate Eddie from the symbiote. Peter tries to use the bell’s ring in order to get the symbiote off of Brock, like how he got rid of it, but Venom takes the bell, and throws Spider-Man and the bell back to the foundation, injuring Peter. This is when Peter decides to go for one more plan. He tells the symbiote that it’s proven it’s point that he’s nothing without it, and asks it to take him back. MJ, seeing this, shouts at Peter to don’t, and begins to break out by tasing the web. At first, Eddie refuses, saying “it’s found a better partner in me”, but the symbiote leaves Brock, no matter how much he begged. As Brock goes through a mental breakdown, MJ runs over to Peter, who’s body is consumed by the symbiote. MJ tries to desperately tase Peter to get it off of him, but it’s not working. Realizing Peter could be gone, MJ breaks down in tears, hugging Peter dearly. In Peter’s mind, the symbiote realizes that Peter doesn’t want him back, and tries to take over, but the thoughts of those close to him defy the Symbiote’s influence, leading to it getting off of Peter. Seeing the symbiote heading towards Eddie, who reacts happily, she goes towards them. Before Eddie could reach out to the symbiote, it is contained by her. He tries to attack her to get it back, but Peter, now conscious, webs Eddie up. He and MJ have an emotional moment, before he swings them away, leaving Brock for the police. With the symbiote contained, Peter goes to the hospital to talk with Harry. He thinks about giving it to him, but Harry refuses. He tells Peter he understands now that the symbiote really is dangerous, and he’s done either way. He tells Peter to heal the world by getting rid of it somehow. After having a moment, Peter embraces Harry, who peacefully dies in his arms, leaving one single tear. After mourning for Harry, Peter goes to get rid of the symbiote, but not before Norman bursts in, seeing Harry dead, and shouting at Spider-Man why didn’t he give it to him. Peter then buried the symbiote in dry cement, before heading back to May’s house. He begins to set up a version of the Emily May Foundation, but retires as Spider-Man. He couldn’t see himself in that mask after seeing what men like Otto and Eddie have ended up as. Peter would put the mask back on, but only when Norman becomes the Green Goblin.
It’s like on one hand I really like venom but they could have done so much with him and make a really good reason for him to want to kill spider-man but we can wait till carnage to see if they can make it better
Great points. Even the name “Venom” doesn’t even make sense in this story. If Venom is supposed to be a personal poison or venom to Peter, that’s not the case here. Trying to make sense of it, I’d probably think “oh, well maybe he’s a venom/poison to the world” BUT that STILL wouldn’t make sense bc in their eyes, they’re HEALING the world. Literally the opposite of venom. This motivation might get a pass if someone ELSE named them Venom but Harry/the symbiote literally name themselves with the iconic line “We are Venom”. There’s no way the name adds up here.
Kraven tells spider that he is not as venomous as you seem so the symbiote probably wanted to prove that he could be venomous but yeah i see what you are saying and I agree but I still really like Harry as venom since he has more connection to Peter rather than just spider man
Your point is Valid cause I said the same thing but hey…it’s their take on him…do wish he was more Spider-Man like but I what they did was cool in my opinion. Hope he gets to web swing in his solo game 😂😂
Yea but that’s just he say she say, show me don’t tell me as far as spiderman 2, but for smps4 it was just he say she say setup they didn’t show much other than the dumb post credit scene
When it comes to his design, and his full capabilities they did venom amazing in this game. I see your problem is mainly with the story but keep in mind that this was a new take and a different VERSION of venom. It's okay to take elements from the comics but you cant tell the same story over and over so I had no issues whatsoever.
Just because I said they were missing core character traits doesn’t mean that they need to retell the same story why do people act like spectacular spiderman didn’t add onto / tell a new story with venom vs the comics or vs the animated series? Why do we act like we can’t create new stories with the same characters without completely butchering the character but instead essentially creating a whole new character that is BASED OFF OF BUT ISNT the original beloved character? I just find it stupid imo.
And!? Your POINT is!? Since when did we give out trophies for having an Idea!? Its the EXECUTION that matters and it was POOR in this game Doing some new is fine...ONLY if you EXECUTE IT. Or else fans are gonna ask why did you change it if you were gonna replace it with CRAP!? Also you might as well make a NEW character if it has NOTHING in common with what makes them THAT character. You cant just use the powers and call it a day if the story doesnt resemble. Theirs a reason Superman is the original but everyone else with his powers are DIFFERENT characters cause powers are just the cherry on top
@@no.1spidey-fan182 The execution was absolutely Perfect with venom in this game wtf are you talking about they went 100% with it The only thing I don't like it that he was Harry. But the execution was perfect
@@WillactTv Yes and that is the whole point. All the elements are based on 'Eddie Brocks' but only change was Harry Osborn being the host. You literally are agreeing with everyone if that is you what deslike about it.
Did it come from space? Is it a symbiote? Black with a white spider design? A Spider-Man villain? Yeah that’s Venom no matter what way you slice it 🤷♂️
@@leaderofcats4627 so when Flash Thompson had it he wasn’t called Venom? The symbiotes all have their own identity and this symbiote has always introduced itself as venom it only says “we” are Venom when it achieves perfect symbiosis as proven by multiple comics mainly The king in black event Eddie runs around stating HE needs Venom back not WE (Not being a Karen I’ve just done my research and followed the character since I was old enough to read) everyone is entitled to their opinion though
I think Venom wanted to turn the world into Symbiotes so bad because by Coming in contact with the meteorite It connected him to the hive mind and changed his personality and goal but other than that I agree with you
i mean yeah idk about the lore of all that stuff honestly but i guess that would check out but still idk like thats not really the venom we know and love thats just extra lore i feel like
@@ScarletSpiderII yeah I agree and the meteorite isn't even in the comic lore I just thought that because right after peter touched it his suit changed and started getting real wild
I just hope the Venom solo game does a better job characterizing Venom, I also hope either Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson is his host this time, I admit having Harry Osborn as Venom serve as a antagonist and final boss for Marvels Spider-Man 2 was a smart move, but I really think a Venom solo game should star someone who actually was Venom in the comics.
@srstriker6420 They aren't, Harry Osborn is Spider-Man best friend while he's never liked Eddie Brock one little bit, go see the 90s animated series, or read the mainstream comics, Brock and Parker hate each other. Harry Osborn is good person who made mistakes while Eddie Brock is bad man with redeeming qualities.
Venom not being eddie was a huge let down to me. I don't know why they can never do the story justice. Only in spiderman tas from the freaking 90s got it right. Also eddie is freaking jacked this venom reminds me of spiderman 3 movie majorly. And my biggest disappointment with that movie was eddie was turned into a pencil thin person. Here they did the exact same thing. Eddie basically looked like arnold schwarzenegger and that was way cooler to me. Venom movies were also disappointing because 1. there was no spiderman all that awesome plot skipped and 2 he's supposed to start out a villian only later does he become an anti hero.
I personally think venom the symbiote is aggressive is because Peter made it like that due to him being aggressive and wanting revenge against kraken so the suit picked up Peter’s more aggressive motives and tried to take them to a level Peter wasn’t able to go to so when harry got the suit it was confused and enraged with Peter because it thinks it was abandoned for no reason. So when harry was all mad it was probably temporary but since harry isn’t a mentally strong as Peter he and his goals were taken out of context and turned into hate. Also how is hate turning into obsession a motivation.
And if Eddie became Venom here, you'd complain that there was no buildup, and we'd have to point out that it's nostalgia bait. (Looking at you, Disney)
@@FirestoneAnimation Not if it was handled WELL and you can say the same about Doc Ock. Eddie was already teased twice in this universe so its not like he's popping outta thin air. Or if its something fresher you want. Make Kraven Venom and adapt the "better spiderman" element from The Last Hunt arc
@melonguy12203 I can agree on Kraven, due to the only hint we get is from Flint, but I'll have to disagree on Doc Ock. There was plenty of buildup because after the first couple of missions, you go to him and when he first appears, his silhouette represents the arms he would later create.
You were 100% right about insomniacs venom having full control. The motivation is the same though. Venom is obsessed with peter. Saying lines to miles like, “You tore us apart.” “You we’re jealous.” So by the standpoint of venom being in control he has a clear obsession with peter.
@ScarletSpiderII It's obsessed with Peter cause it bonded with him mentally and it felt the power Peter had. Power can be like a drug. Also, being linked to Harry, they are best friends, so he attached to that closeness the symbiote has never felt before. It's just like when a dog becomes familiar with its owner. Even if you abuse the dog, the dog still wants to be with you.
@@ScarletSpiderIIHe’s obsessive over Peter. From the beginning the symbiote wanted to bind too Peter. There are multiple scenes where the venom symbiote reaches out and tries to bind with Peter while it’s still on harry. Even the scene where Peter got the symbiote harry did not make venom go too Peter venom did it himself. Just like in the comics venom is pissed at Peter for willingly tearing him off. (After miles convinced him in insomniacs version) Venom wanted to stay with Peter.
The motivation(s) part is where I feel like I disconnected. The hate isn't turning into an obsession, Venom believes that Peter is the perfect host, and due to Peter rejecting it, that's what causes the hate. Venom didn't just land on Earth hating Peter. It only hated him after the fact that Peter rejected it. I wouldn't consider, "hate turning into obsession" as a motive either, because that's just a transition either away. All in all, if you get rid of all the excess, the comic Venom you portray has one motive too; killing Spider-Man. The strong bond between host and symbiote hatred is also not a motive, it's just explaining why the symbiote bonds so well. It seems like most of those motives are just multiple parts of the same thing.
That’s not a motivation that’s just part of the character bro and it’s Eddie’s hatred or the typical hosts pure hatred of spider-man spinning the symbiotes hate also into an obsession maybe I misspoke somewhere in the video but that’s definitely apart of venoms character
I guess to be more specific the motives of venom are from Eddie or whoever getting their life ruined by spidey and the symbiote being rejected by spiderman anything else is a character trait venom gains after they bond and become venom
venom doesn't want to heal the world he wants to create this world where he has a family he continuesely tries to get Peter to join him practically begging him because he did care for both harry and Peter even if he manipulated them into doing what he thought was right for them I feel this would of worked better if we got at least 30 more minutes with it
If they did all the classic venom stuff it wouldn’t be an “original take”. They were trying something new with the character, can’t be mad at them for being ambitious
I’ve BEEN sayin that venom shoulda been Kraven in this game. Would’ve cured Kavens problem of his body betraying him, he could have turned his lil private army into symbiote a (to keep the symbiote enemy type). Kraven was already a lethal threat and I really feel like Kraven would have truly had that symbiotic relationship with venom. Harry and venom feel like 2 different characters which jus ruins the whole concept of the symbiote. Whereas Kraven and venom would bond, kraven wants the perfect hunt, wants a equal pray (the spider-men) and venom hates spider man/ wants to kill him cuz of Peter abandoned him. Instead of the whole “best friend turned to villain” storyline, Kraven, someone Peter does NOT know and has no ties too would have been better.
My problem is after Harry says “We are Venom.” Peter still refers to him as Harry. Hell, he didn’t even call or refer Otto as Doctor Octopus in the first game. I wish that each time Peter said Harry instead of Venom, I would’ve loved a moment where Harry and the Symbiote could’ve been like “STOP CALLING US HARRY!!!!!!!!, WE ARE VENOM!!!!!!!!!!!”. I also wish they did what spectacular did in which we go inside Peter’s mind and see his memories of Uncle Ben, the Spider-bite and a lot more of his past before he took the black suit off, true Miles and Martian Li go inside Peter’s mind later in the game, but all we really saw was hallucinations of His villains and the memory of Aunt May and it was still great, just not as great as the way Spectacular handled it in my opinion. I also find it werid that Miles and MJ go back to trusting Peter quickly right after he gets the suit off, yea Peter was back to his normal self, but I wish for the rest of the game after all he did in the black suit, Peter would lose the trust of Miles and MJ and they would fear him because of what the black suit made him do throughout the game’s story and he would feel guilty and would make it up for them to regain his trust, that would’ve been great to me. Overall, Marvel’s Spider-Man 2 is a great game, but there’s some things in the story I wished they fixed and I wanted Venom to be a lot more better than what we got in the final game, but I’m very much looking for Marvel’s Spider-man 3 and just like I predicted years ago when Marvel’s Spider-Man 2’s first trailer came out is that if Harry was Venom , something would have to happen to him in order for Norman to become The Green Goblin and I was right, only difference was is that I thought Harry would’ve died instead of going in a Coma. My prediction for Marvel’s Spider-man 3 is that Peter Parker will be killed by the Green Goblin, yes it will be heartbreaking, but I can definitely see Insomniac doing a bold move like it and I respect it.
I understand the criticisms here, however, I feel like now that we know insomniac are going to make a venom lethal protector game, everything makes a lot more sense, at least to me. Venom in this game was meant to enhance Peter and Harry’s arcs while also setting up the events for sm3. This game also gives venom a reason to hate spiderman after the final fight, which will likely lead him to bond with Eddie Brock in the lethal protector game. But for now, only time will tell I guess lol
That wouldn’t even make sense venom was already created it’s literally too late for that not the game but the hating spiderman part and their arcs weren’t enhanced maybe Peter but definitely not Harry dude didn’t even die
What I meant by enhancing Harry’s arc was the buildup of his anger and jealousy that we see in the cutscenes leading up to him eventually becoming venom. When it came to its boiling point and venom bonded with Harry once again, his “heal the world” vision became a twisted version of itself.
Moving into venom hating spiderman, I think it could work out, especially because the leaks reveal that the extreme carnage dlc will play a pivotal role in setting up the lethal protector game, I do trust that insomniac can pull this off.
Ever since marvels Spider-Man came out in 2018, it brought with it a bunch of fake Spider-Man fans that were never really into Spider-Man until that point. I remember everyone back then saying Spider-Man games were mid or boring or just simply didn’t play them. I’m telling you that marvels Spider-Man 2s story was very poorly made. If it’s shown me anything it’s that insomniac couldn’t handle putting 2 Spider-men in the same world to play as. On top of that insomniac only cares about sales to the highest degree. I mean just look at all the light hearted content in that game and the SIDE QUESTS and references that get made…yeah… seems like they’re trying to cater to as many audiences as possible for the sales if you ask me. Touching back up with how they handle the game though it’s just too family friendly…they very clearly don’t wanna take risks and to give miles the spotlight they diminish Pete’s character. The game as a whole isn’t a waste or even bad, the gameplay is extremely compelling and fun I love the parry system. But the entire story, just the way it feels and how I feel watching all these cutscenes, just feels wrong and not at all good. Really wanna harp on the game being too family friendly like seriously, I’m supposed to believe these are grown adults with the way they act SERIOUSLY. Miles is just a kid but still what the hell were they thinking. They could have at least made Mary Jane beautiful…
Although I WILL say..having Venom as Eddie Brock at this point seems kinda impossible. It was foreshadowed in the ending of the very first game Venom was Harry, we seen him with the suit in the ending, and THAT was all because Harry was sick, and the cure for him was currently a POISON....or a Venom...
Do you not think they had too much split attention? Like if they'd just focused on Pete and Mj and Harry, they could have brought a lot more to Harry/ Venom? But it was like "Omigosh, Harry might die!.. but Miles has an essay to write." Or "Oh no, Harry is feeling resentful towards Pete because of his relationship with his father, we should explore this further.... but some dude needs Miles's help getting a prom date." Or "Venom is out there, he could be hunting Peter right now, destroying his life and relationships.... but more importantly Miles' gf needs to help a criminal get away with defacing public property." I get it, Miles is cool and Into the Spiderverse was popular but he just had a solo game and he was irrelevant to the plot of this one (aside from Peter v Miles fight, which was great in terms of gameplay but we are talking about narrative, so really MJ and Harry should have been the ones to bring him back from the edge)
for those who are missing the entire point to put it shortly: creating a “new iteration” of a character doesn’t require you to change the core characteristics of said character to create a new story. the more you change the core of the character, the less that character is themselves the one we all know and love, the more they become unrecognizable.
THANK YOU!!! I've been saying this for MONTHS. An New Idea does NOT equate to a GOOD idea.
You don't necessarily have to be a slave to the source material BUT if you're gonna replace it you have to replace it with something BETTER OR of EQUAL value...or else fans sre gonna be left with a GIANT WTF!? And asking why you didn't just leave it as it was
Accolades are given for EXECUTION of an idea...NOT the idea itself. And Insomniac failed execution on multiple levels
@no.1spidey-fan182 me personally I think they made a good iteration, this Venom seems to be the perfect type of villain for a dark game
Do you think that the rumors of Sony making insomniac cut a lot of venom lines had an impact on the story, because imo it severely hurt the game?
Agree with you 10000000000%
@@no.1spidey-fan182your wrong
I agree with what you said. The killer difference for me is that the original venom in the comics isn’t necessarily evil. Like you said he just hated Spider-Man, he typically didn’t even want to hurt other people unless they were in the way of him getting to Spider-Man, So much so that in the comics when Peter faked his death and made Venom believe he killed him, Venom literally retired to a remote island peacefully to live out his best life. He had no motivations to “ take over the world “or to create new symbiotes. In fact venom doesn’t even like the other symbiotes in his lineage.
Especially the red one...
Idea from 1994 show was a mistake
@@kidkatanatv Bro did NOT wanna pay for the child support 😭
Comics venom kinda sucks
@@thegreatacolyt1277 Rebuttal: VENOM out of all people told Black Cat to chill the hell out and stop trying to kill Spider-Man. He has a character more than _Unga Bunga I Munch And Roar_
I couldn’t agree with you more. In the first game, you could listen to voice tapes left by Dock Ock and you could tell that he is slowly going insane. But with Harry, he just kinda throws a fit when he gets the symbiote back
I feel like Peter’s actions with the black suit on and refusing to give it to Harry and telling him to “pop some more pills” and right after that Norman telling Peter he was like a second son, and Harry’s condition all contributed to Harry’s new rage towards Peter. And when Peter refused to give Harry the Symbiote back he snaps and becomes Venom. I will admit, the finale basically making Harry not in control of the Symbiote was a bit stupid and they should’ve killed Harry off at the end, but I kinda compare it to the end of Web of Shadows where Eddie lost control of Venom and in the final QTE he says how tired he is
@@captainzachary2477 I kinda agree with you but I feel that this hatred for Peter doesn’t last long after getting the suit back. For most of the symbiote takeover, venom is trying to get Peter to join him rather than trying to kill him which is what venom is supposed to want to do
He did not just “throw a fit”. Harry was dying. He was understanding at first as to how Peter had it, but Peter was becoming callous about his situation because of the suit and then when he came with Venom back to a hopeless Harry he mow decides he cant have it. Harry has been in a tank for years to stall his sickness. Without Venom he pretty much dies. He felt betrayed. This take is not that great.
Facts, his transformation was completely out of nowhere. He was sick and depressed then a little angry, then unhinged within about 1 hour of the story
Think a lotta you guys missed key dynamics between the two to not bridge together the changes due to symbiote n years of other unsolved trauma n issues ...
The best friend villain theme was already explored with Phin in Miles Morales. It would have been more interesting if they had explored a new theme, like how Peter/Spider-Man’s actions can have unforeseen consequences on strangers lives. Like a domino effect that eventually leads to Eddie Brock becoming Venom, all of which he sees as divine intervention. And with Harry dead without the symbiote, Peter would see Venom/Eddie as his own failure and inability to save everyone.
Literally this would’ve been a good idea
Unpopular opinion: Eddie-Venom is overused as hell
Yeah but that sucked ass bro and Harry has a stronger narrative connection
@@FirestoneAnimationthats like saying "peter as spiderman is overused as hell"
@@ScarletSpiderII but I always thought that both Eddie and Harry are pretty much the same person and I really don’t think Peter should be friends with them as they’re both theses self pity incels
Yeah initially doesn’t seem like a bad idea to make Harry venom. The hard thing is, Harry almost never can truly hate Peter the same way. Especially through the course of a game where it’s all going to happen very quick. Think he could’ve had good enough motivation if they leaned more into peter just letting him die and felt betrayed instead of the heal the world stuff. Kinda weird. The wings were wild too💀💀
Imagine if they just added The Rami version of Harry instead …problem solved
they could of also used harry not completely hating peter as internal conflict between harry and venom
The wings are from comics I’m pretty sure.
the I found weird about Venom in ps5 spiderman is..... why did he call himself Venom? Really, Venom always called himself thus because he SPECIFICALLY said he's "poison" to spidey and Peter. He named himself for HIM, Spider-Man. He based his ENTIRE existence thusly to ruining Peters life in every aspect, his purpose is Spider-Man, in pain, hurt. Even his powers are counters to Spidey, his main one being the fact that he was the ONLY villain spidey could NEVER see coming, because he's immune to his spidey sense. He alone was able to get the drop on Spidey, and in some stories and games, he flat out can turn INVISIBLE, meaning Spidey could genuinely NEVER know when or where Venom is lurking, despite how big the guy is.
All that said..... what Harry/Symbiote start calling himself Venom for? He isn't "poison to Spidey/Peter, he still thinks he's his best friend, and vice versa, to the point of being obsessed with him. In THAT regard, Venom is true to his character. However, he never declares himself an enemy, thus he cannot be "Venom", honestly I'm not sure the whole "Venom is immune to Spider Sense" thing is even touched on in the game. Dude keeps saying he'll "Heal the world", which...kinda is the opposite of what the traditional purpose of "Venom" is. Even his PURPOSE in the game is...counter to his name. He only ONCE goes after Mary Jane in the game, when he could've instead of making him fight Peter, could've used her as bait or a lure to get peter to join his side. "Look Peter, MJ likes it, join her, join US!" that could've been easy, but that's not the point of this, that's an entirely different tangent.
In short: The name Venom for Harry just doesn't feel..... "earned", if that makes sense. Literally it's just:
Harry: We.... are.. *Venom*
Peter: ....why?
Venom: What?
Peter: why are you calling yourself 'Venom'? Do you have poison powers?
Venom: ..no
Peter: oh.... then... why?
Venom: ...it sounds cool
I really tought of this. Back in the first mission with the black suit, when kraven stabs spiderman, he looks him in the eyes and says: ``youre not as venomous as they say´´. so maybe from all that hate that kraven and venom has that he pulled out the name, to show kraven, that he can ve venomous.
I suppose, but.... Peter wasn't even wearing the black suit at the time, so calling himself after a deadmans taunt that wasn't even directed at either Harry himself OR the symbiote is.....a long walk for a short drink of water@@fransisquito5832
I think there is a blink and you might miss it type detail or something Where the canister contains venoms says “VNM” then some numbers.
That’s why he calls himself venom since the letters on his canister sort spell venom.
While I don't think they explained it well to anyone who doesn't read the comics, I think Venom acted as he did because of the meteorite, he was following the wishes of Knull, The God of The Symbiotes.
That symbol swirly symbol is seen on the head of any symbiote that has been controlled by Knull's will.
I think the main issue with your critique, is that you mostly only seem to know what happened in TAS and other tertiary media.
Venom has a love/hate relationship with Peter, he's basically a scorned ex lover, who's totally nuts.
He talks to Kraven about how he blames him for ruining his bond with Peter in the boss fight at the end.
Venom wanted to stay bonded to Peter, and is convinced that if Kraven had not gotten in the way, they would still be together.
The symbiote tells Harry that Peter betrayed him, and uses their shared scorn to convince Harry that Peter is his Enemy, meanwhile, both Harry and the Symbiote want to bring peter into the fold of the Hive mind because Harry loves Peter, despite being angry with him, as does the Symbiote.
In the comics, it was Peter who taught the symbiote compassion, and that is largely why it loved him so much, and felt so betrayed by him.
It took all the wrong steps, but it did what it believed was right by it's host.
That's why it defended him from The Hunters and in the comics used his sleeping body as a puppet, fighting crime when he was asleep.
The issue is that is lacked the understanding/humanity that peter fought with, and so it went too far and was too brutal with how it handled his villains/street thugs.
Klyntar (Symbiotes) don't cause negative feelings, they amplify the ones that are already there.
I think if we still get the Venom Solo game after that leak, that we will see Venom's true nature become apparent.
Symbiotes are protectors and guardians, when not being corrupted by the influence of a King in Black / Symbiote God.
I hope we see Eddie become the new/true Venom, because I think Eddie is such an amazing and flawed character, who doesn't give up on doing the work to better himself, no matter how many times he screws everything up.
I want to see more realistically portrayed, deeply flawed people who make bad choices and do the work to be better, I loved those themes in MSM2, easily my favorite aspect of the game.
I get where you mean but I feel my point still stands as far as where are these core characteristics of venom? They aren’t present in the game. Most of not all of the other stuff you mentioned is extra and or things for after venom and spiderman make up. Some of the things you said I didn’t actually specifically know like the amplify negative feelings part so that’s cool to now know! But Venom initially when born wanted to murder spider-man. That wasn’t here whatsoever.
@@ScarletSpiderII I think you’ll find the “boosting negative emotions part” was something the cartoon made up, and it was such a cool idea that it was approved by Stan Lee, though it should be noted that, in the original story, the Symbiote did not amplify negative feelings.
Outside of any media influence, taking the series in a vacuum, MSM2 was a bad story. Motivations were unclear, the symbiote being used to heal something was unfounded when they only saw it take Connors arm, Norman blaming Spider-Man for his own failures was a stretch, Pete being nerfed compared to Miles was annoying, MJ being OP is weird, Pete being antiVenom and that being left at that is also weird. This game felt like a checklist of things and not organic at all, whereas the 1st game felt like the complete opposite.
@@KiD1515 mj got training from silver sable and what would make you think Peter got weaker
the anti venom is nessary due to miles venom abilties for gameplay mechanic balanceing but they could have explainedit more organically but they simply did not have the time to make the very long story they wanted to @@KiD1515
I was not a fan of the idea of Harry being the host since Eddie is such an important step for Venom. But they had everything to make it work with Harry still being the host. Peter legit abandoned him and left him to die without his only cure and once he finally come back with it, he planned to destroy it. They could have used that to explain why Harry and the symbiote would want to go on a vendetta againts Spider-man.
Yeah well I still think a Venom solo game should star someone who actually was Venom in the comics.
@@robertkenny1201 Yeah. With harry in the coma, they still have a chance to bring Eddie for a spine off game.
PREACH!!!! That’s what I said around 16:30
The thing is that venom hates peter, but harry not, and the reason harry lets venom do what he wants is because he thinks he's healing the world, because the symbiote make him healthy, so harry wants to share that "gift" for everyone
They had everything yo make it work with Harry still being the host. Peter legit abandoned him and left him to die without his only cure and once he finally come back with it, he plan to destroy it. They could have used that to explain why Harry and the symbiote would want to go on a vendetta againts Spider-man.
@@Nathan-gm9nl I guess they just wanted to do this web of shadows storyline
But venom never really tried to kill peter in the game.@@Nathan-gm9nl
@@niv6921 I know and thats the probleme.
In this version, venom doesn't hate peter. Not in the slightest, I have no clue why people get that conception when at every given opportunity, venom tries to appeal to peter lmao
For me the problem isn't that Eddie Brock didn't turn out to be Venom, for me it's that they didn't develop Venom whatsoever in this game, it just turned out to be a generic villain who wants to take over the world, where Venom should actually be a character that is opposite to Spider-Man, a character that hates the Spider-Man, but in this game it's actually quite the opposite, since Venom wants Peter to join him or something.
If anything though, I'd want Kraven as Venom in this game
A cultured gentleman who just *gets it* hats off to you sir 🤝🏻
Not a good idea.
Kraven's whole shtick is that he wants to earn the hunt. Him being Venom would be cheating in his own eyes.
Plus, Peter needs a personal connection with both the Symbiote(Peter being the Original host) and the new host..
Kraven has no personal connection to him.
Harry does.
BUT Hary doesn't work either since the host's motivation needs to be their almost Petty level of hate towards Peter Parker and Spider-Man.
That is why Eddie is the best choice.
so you'd prefer it to be harry?@@spider-man500
The entire point Venom doesn't hate Peter is because Harry doesn't hate Peter. Even in the video when you talk about how Venom and Eddie are bonded through hatred, Venom and Harry are bonded through "healing" the world. It's not the same person so their motivations are obviously going to be different. I feel like it's unfair to compare the Venoms when it's not even the same person in possession of it. If Venom were to just hate Spider-Man anywhere near Eddie's level it'd disregard the effect the host has on it entirely and just be Eddie with pills.
It’s not unfair because this venom sucks ass and that is exactly why he sucks because he doesn’t hate spiderman. Thats the venom we all know and love imo.
@@ScarletSpiderIIthat’s your opinion tho you hating venom because it isn’t Eddie 💀
@@demilord2668 At that point, aren't you just calling Venom any villain with a black symbiote? At the end of the day, Sony bastardized the character by just reducing Venom down to his aesthetic and not his backstory or key characteristics. It's like making Matt Murdock Spider-Man despite them being completely different people with different stories and goals.
@@malvunctiongamers3141 Just because it didn't bond with Venom and become a hateful obsessive monster doesn't mean they bastardized it. That type of Venom is Eddie's, not Harry's. Also Vernon has been worn by people like Flash Thompson, I don't think that analogy works on Venom
I think that’s his point though. That because the motivation is so different, “Venom” ISN’T Venom in Spider-Man 2 PS5 aka the title of the video.
So if this version of Harry hated Spider-Man say because he “killed his Dad” like in the “2002” film or something, then it would feel more like Venom.
THANK YOU for this video. I’ve been screaming this from the rooftops.
The one thing I was hoping you’d get into is the aesthetics of Venom. Modern media leans more gooey hulk monster these days instead of Spider-Man’s evil counterpart who shoots webs. I didn’t see any webs shot from insomniacs venom. It’s all tentacle galore with him and Sonys movie venom
At least with Sony's Movie Venom, they have the lack of Spider-Man as an excuse.
It all started with Spider-Man 3. Once Spidey started swinging on black webbing replacing webbing all-together with tendrils was an inevitability.
@@bigevil1001Facts
@bigevil1001 what this original comment describes that they want is literally Venom from SM 3... lol. The most comic accurate Venom we've had and everyone is too dumb to notice
@@idiot_city5444 there are aesthetic problems with the SM3 venom but in ways more accurate than hardys. The best venom is the 90s animated series Venom. No one has taken that crown.
I think they should’ve built on the whole thing of Peter being the son Norman always wanted. Show that in the flashbacks and present.
Would’ve given Harry the jealousy and hatred of Peter more. They showed Norman calling Peter a son but I think they should’ve built on that earlier.
And one of my favorite things about the symbiote is that they’re pretty much like a jealous ex-girlfriend 😂. Peter rejected them and the symbiote cant move on lmao. Wish Insomniac did that with their Venom.
The difference with insomniacs venom is he’s not driven by hatred towards Spiderman, harry and the symbiote feel rejected by Peter as Peter didn’t need the symbiote and has miles now so he doesn’t “need” harry. It’s the feeling of rejection that brings the obsession for trying to assimilate Peter back into the symbiote through his and Harry’s shared goal of saving the world. The symbiote takes this approach because if it is “saving the world” and being a hero it aligns with Spider-Man’s goal to save the city, in which the two agree and reunite. Personally I think I think this video essay takes a purist mentality which overshadows what insomniac actually did.
If he's not driven by hatred he has 0 reasons whatsoever to call himself venom so this literally can't be the same character, its not about purity its about carrying the core elements of a character if you're going to adapt them. The name is symbolic...because story telling? themes? character motivations...you know things that actually skilled writers should be proficient in.
I feel like the problem isn’t that Venom doesn’t feel like Venom. I personally liked him in this game and I thought it was pretty cool how he convinced Harry that Peter betrayed him by using his mother’s voice. I think the problem is that they tried to put Kraven and Venom in the same game as “main villains”. Most of the game is centered around Kraven and his story and it kinda pushes Harry and Venom to the side until the last hours or so of the game so we don’t really get any of the buildup towards him. And yes, there is technically some amount of buildup, but not as much as we got with Doctor Octopus in Spider-Man 1.
He didn't say that in the comics. You also stopped right before we got to the really good stuff, which is why I guess you think Venom is a villain and think that revenge is the core? While I will be focusing on Eddie, (as the symbiote would have me have to explain Flash, the Agents of the Cosmos and Knull completely) Venom's core is redemption in the comics. Eddie would give up the symbiote and it would end up on Mac who would start a lot stereotypes Venom is known for (like actually eating people), while Eddie would further his redemption arc. At first it was slow becoming Anti-Venom and largely just being a more heroic take on his 90s self, however once Flash got involved and became Agent Venom? He stood up for both the symbiote and Eddie and laid into Peter for him holding a grudge, Peter and Eddie would finally bury the hatchet, while Eddie went full on hero. Then we got Donny's run which the game pulls from but makes everything they use be used opposite from its context like Venom's wings. Like its the climax of Eddie's character development, to the point Eddie becomes worthy of Thor's hammer and becoming Captain Universe but the game just misses the point of the stuff its using. Be it the Agent Venom design, the spirals that are supposed to represent mind control for symbiotes, Anti-Venom, etc. Also what makes Venom during his anti-villain days special is how obsessive his in killing Peter and of innocence, they're not your typical revenge focused villain they ONLY want to punish Peter, that means no attacking MJ, or Aunt May or his fake robot parents Harry built to get revenge. So I don't really like that idea though I will grant you it is more in character for Harry than the symbiote.
TDLR: Venom is the original Spidey spinoff character not a villain, his comics are great and outsell Peter's please give them a chance.
i get what you mean with the redemption arc but for this game venom shouldve just been a villain and then he can have his own game of him being an anti hero i do understand where ur coming from, but imo venom is a villain to spider-man thats literally just how he was created. he was created to be a literal opposite copy of spider-man that wants nothing but his destruction, until eventually what ur talking about the redemption arc and this game does the origin of venom and this origin of venom wasnt great cus it didnt have those core characteristics of when venom and why venom is birthed hopefully i wordedd that better, but everyones viewpoints are different this is just personally why it didnt work for me and many other venom fans out in the world!
also venoms comics outsell peters currently only because what marvel editorial is doing wiht spider-man is horrendous!! if it was anything like that new ultimate run (even tho we havent read it yet) i gurantee it would sell more than venom imo.
@@ScarletSpiderII
No its alright and I do agree Venom should should start out villainous. I just wanted to make clear that there was far more to the character than just revenge and that he hasn't been a villain for years. Either way SM2 Venom is horrible and the worst adaption so far.
Also Donny's run was outselling Nick's which was considered a return to form before Marvel pulled the plug on him because he was trying to undo OMD, so this isn't a new development because of the current awful run.
I think its just there are two types of venom, the venom that is his own character in need of a host that you talk about, and venom that works for knull to take over the universe with an army of symbiotes like in the game
I never had a problem with it being Harry. I feel like the way venom functions, it invites different adaptations of it binding to other characters. I think the execution was just really poor, and i didn't like all the new powers and stuff. The fact that it can just take over a city, ignore fire, and the devil wings just killed me. I pretty much agree with every other thing you said. I liked your proposed alternate motivations for Harry. They were baked right into the cake of Insomniacs own narrative and they chose not to go with it. Swing and a miss
The wings come from the comics
I'm so happy to see more honest non-biased reviews of this mixed bag sequel. Thank you so much for that. Even Cosmonaut & Godzilla Mendoza aren't sugar-coating this.
This completely changed the way I looked at venom in the insomniac version. I think I was just too blinded by excitement and I didn't realise how the game could've been better. I still enjoyed Spiderman 2 and I will still enjoy it but I'm glad you brought this into light.
open minded goat 🫡
I feel like people are hating on insomniac venom too much. I like the approach that they took making venom truly evil and making him wanting to take over the well worked well in my opintion. I understand the emotional lack but I feel like an alien symbiote who came to earth in a meteorite is allowed to be scary without emotions.
15:40 Bill Roseman was referring to Comics Venom. I admit, he should’ve clarified.
Spiderman The Animated Series was so based with the comic source material accuracies. I wish that they had an extra season to adapt the Life Foundation Symbiotes.
That or Spectacular Spider-Man, which is the best animated adaptation ever in my opinion.
I agree that the game should've had more time spending on bonding with Harry, and in the second act needing more urgency in the need of the suit back. I felt like crying during the Howard side mission than the final boss. And from what I heard, this story went flat cause they pulled a Disney and switched writers. Don't quote me on that, I just heard. Now something I do have to point out is, of course this isn't the venom we grew up with. Just like how the advanced suit isn't the suit we grew up with, Insom making us want Otto to NOT become Doc Ock, skipping the repeated backstory, especially with how this game ended with Peter having a permanent Anti-Venom suit. Insomniac is taking risks in trying new things. And no, they should not make Eddie venom, everyone, including yourself, would end up question where he came from, why he's here etc etc.
Yes I agree that we didn't get motivations for Venom killing or hurting spider-man. The game definitely should've been longer because these ideas could help it:
-Have Miles bond with Harry (Both lost a parent to something they couldn't prevent, but now they both have the thing to prevent it ever repeating again)
-Spend more time developing Peter and Harry's friendship, and show some negatives here and there (Agree with Harry talking about how Peter cared more about his identity and saving the city than keeping Harry alive with the symbiote).
-And a minor thing, give us a scene of Miles making the evolved suit (With a slightly better design, I'm already fine with the current one) like maybe his previous suit can't handle his evolved Lightning powers so he made one that could handle it.
No ur right about the writers part they had COMIC BOOK writers on spiderman ps4!! They didn’t have any for this game. They almost didn’t include aunt may in spiderman PS4 until a comic writer said no you can’t do that YOU NEED to include her in the game, I forgot who it was.
@@ScarletSpiderII Right?! They pulled a bloody Disney! Should've kept the comic book writers on instead of repeating TLJ's mistake. Then maybe, *just maybe* the game could've gotten GOTY (maybe that's a reach as the company also rushed the games production)
@@ScarletSpiderIIThey included Aunt May in spider man 2 ps5.
Where she was explaining Peter about the balance.
Peter finally found that balance in the end, the theme is justified.
But I think in the 3rd game, he will learn that he has to be Spider-Man while balancing his normal life.
In this game I think it's acceptable that Harry Osborn is Venom, but if they make a Venom solo game I think either Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson should be Venoms new host.
@@robertkenny1201 I agree.
10:49 this exact frame, is where more dialogue was needed and MJ coming ruined the only chance left to develop the story better
yeah that part was kinda weird
crazy theory, eddie didnt need to be venom but they could have referenced and used the exact sequence peter gets the symbiote back at the beginning of web of shadows where it partly comes off venom and then thats how we got the black suit back in this game after we remove it, and then kept antivenom for a bigger martin li arc helping the spidermen take down venom then harry becomes antivenom. they have the brain power to execute that ina very cool way i know they do but hey we got what we got plus we know the studio was rushed to put this out
Companies need to understand that cooking that good stuff takes time.
What people don't seem to realize is that Venom is not the same being as the symbiote. He is the combination of Eddie and the symbiote. And the writers clearly can't understand such a complex concept. Also he was big and buff because Eddie was working out like a madman. Here he is just huge because reasons.
Two things in insomniac nailed with venom, best design and best voice actor but your are cooking 💯
So many Insomniac glazers in these comics lol. Keep rolling bro!
Thank you for this. Im starting to think more and more people are realising this since the game's been out for a while now. This version was extremely disappointing. A "new take" on venom that takes away everything that makes him unique. This is the only interpretation of venom that could be misconstrued with any of spidey's other villians when naming their motivations, and that's just sad. And it pains me that some think this js unironically "one of the best interpretations of venom", because it just tells me they have no clue what the character actually entales
It is very *INSANE* to me that some think this is the best or even a good adaptation of venom
While I think that this is definitely not the best venom I don’t think it’s bad and the “pure hatred towards Peter” is replaced with the feeling of wanting to join Harry in healing the world bc both of them want Harry to join the symbiote
@@laughing_arbiter the thing is, it isn't venom. It just isn't. The only reason they used venom here is to garner hype. You can't call it a "new take on the same character" if it's not the same character whatsoever, there's barely any resemblance
@@lm_slayer1Its just Venom in name and appearance only. Like I told a buddy of mine Venom feels more like Carnage and switching the Symbiotes would've have made way more since
This was way better than I thought it would be. Bravo
Imagine thinking Venom hates Spider-man more than Green Goblin or Doc Ock.
Not only that in Amazing Spider-man 317
The Symbiote literally abandons Brock when Peter offers himself to it.
The symbiote hates spiderman because the symbiote can’t have spiderman unless they magically for some reason decide to rebind temporarily like when he fought red goblin otherwise the symbiote hates peter more than any other villain IMO
Imagine if they stepped away from the Planet of Symbiotes concept and tried to invest more into showing Pete’s and Harry’s friendship and then inverting it into making Harry driven by symbiote hurt Peter so badly and in the end realising his own damage refusing to bond with it anymore and give the symbiote for smb like Eddie or even Kraven
Honestly it really felt that
1) Harry SHOULD NOT have been a main host considering him being a best friend and not being a real menace to Spider-Men (like was shown in mini boss fight clip that looked crazy)
2) Peter was severely nerfed without any reason so the symbiote becomes really messy with his head and not being able to realize all the side effects of wearing a suit by himself
3) Overall i really couldn’t empathize with symbiote’s motivation of making everyone bond with his “children” ‘cause it wasn’t explained by any means
I guess if they at least said smth like his home was destroyed or he wants to come back on people who kept him in the tank for many years it would make more sense
Sadly few people had complaints about the buildup. No reason to NOT make Harry Venom. They could've executed it better
@@FirestoneAnimation yeah, for sure, but they really could've made his goals clearer
I think how the symbiote works in the game is that it’ll try to give you what you want in a twisted way for example Peter wanted to be the best hero he can be so venom tried to do that in a way by making Peter willing to kill and for Harry he wanted to cured the world or make it a better place so venom tried to do that by turning everyone into symbiotes making so there is no more diseases and no more weakness but this is my opinion so feel free to tell me I’m wrong
Bro This Venom is more Venom than Tom Hardy's Venom.
only because spider-man is involved.
@@ScarletSpiderII it’s also part of that but he pretty much is more like Venom that Tom Hardy’s Venom
L take
Though i depends on the venom you are going for, Tom Hardy’s venom got the heroic side good, while this venom does the evil version better (not saying it’s a perfect evil venom but it is better at being evil)
@@ScarletSpiderII Id say their pretty even tom hardy's venom (not Eddie brock) embodying some of the goofiness of the character from 90s though introducing a whole other list of problems while insomniacs venom embodies the spiderman origin but thats about it this venom is about as mid as the 2017 venom
Another issue I see is these rather rapid fire of close connection villains but don't know how to balance them, which makes it kinda odd. The first Spider-man game had two mentors turned villains, but with those two cases, they had their own reasons and believed to be the best way to fight their enemy, so they kinda worked as two plots. A co-worker turning villain in Wraith was kinda odd in the DLC, and I don't think that the approach they went with really helped.
And now Miles Morales and Spider-man 2 both have best friends becoming villains where Miles kinda messes up the story. Miles' whole thing in Spider-man 2 is his quest for revenge for killing his dad. Which is completely undermined by the fact he spent most of his DLC game stopping his best friend from doing the exact same thing. So Harry's friendship with Peter is battling Miles being Peter's student. Which,Miles gets priority over as he's the second main character.
Harry could have broken through to Pete to get the suit off. Harry could have spent time questioning if it would be better to die or take the risk of wearing the suit, and it takes over him. Kraven could have kidnapped Harry as bait and tortured him to not only fuel Peter's rage but make Harry more afraid and angry to push him into wanting the suit back. But instead, we need to spend time giving Miles attention not only in his slight jealousy at the start but he needs to save Spider-man because he is also Spider-man. He needs something to make him worth putting into the game. Just make him spend the game wanting revenge on Li with absolutely nothing about Phin making any impact on his decision in the slightest that it may as well didn't happen. In terms of in relation to story, I don't think Phin is even brought up.
As a whole, I think that there is a bit of a rush and trying through things. And I don't see it getting much better in the third game. Especially if they want Doc Ock and Green Goblin teaming up and they want Carnage assuming he isn't the DLC villain who are mostly angry at the Spider-man. It all depends on what route they take with it, but I'll think that it will face the same issue of too many people fighting for the spotlight. Thankfully, Otto and Norman are already established and have been built upon. But it still depends on how much they want surrounding characters to interfere in the story, especially if they want Miles as the Spider-man. He'll need something to justify his existence.
I definitely noticed that juice beat playing in the background for a bit W vid😂
Insomniac don't know that Venom isn't anyone bonded to the symbiote. It's Eddie bonded to the symbiote that makes Venom. There is no nice way to say it they're in all honesty idiots
Swapping out Eddie Brock with Harry Osborn was an excellent move on Insomniac’s part because the writing on his arc is nearly flawless. Harry was a dying man who wanted to heal the world, and the symbiote offered him a twisted version of that dream through turning others into symbiote infected zombies. The game made Venom more than just a stalker out to kill Spider-Man. Venom was actually a threat to the safety of not only New York City but the entire planet. And his relations with Peter (being that Harry is his best friend) as well his motivations makes Venom a very sympathetic character.
Yea I can’t agree with any of what you just said but if that’s how you view it good for you
@@ScarletSpiderII People only complain because it's not Eddie Brock. Like not every Venom has to be Eddie Brock. Others have been Venom in the comics like Mac Gargan, and Flash Thompson.
@@Shahriyararin63Eddie is the definitive version of Venom tho .. Otto doesn’t have to Doc Ock, Norman doesn’t have to be Green Goblin, Adrian Toomes doesn’t have to be Vulture then .. Why do those villains get to be them but not Eddie? Venom isn’t meant to be sympathetic. You clearly don’t understand the character just like Insomniac.
@@Shahriyararin63 Fr. If Eddie just popped out of nowhere to become Venom, everyone would complain of it being out of nowhere. No buildup or anything. Just nostalgia bait.
@@FirestoneAnimationyeah.
I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who picked up on this. Big miss especially since the setup was there with Peter “stealing” the suit! Could have been amazing and made a great story. Man this video is great!
Goat commenter
I understand and respect your opinion. I like Harry tho. I like that he is closer and more personal to Peter than Eddie ever was.
Not really. Harry was never really Venom. The symbiote was Venom and Harry was just a hostage along for the ride.
@@bigevil1001 Alright. I get your point but some level of Harry was still conscious. I still think he is better but. I respect your opinion
@@Gabers_Animationno he wasn’t bro lol he didn’t wanna do anything he was doing
@@SosaA11 I understand and somewhat get it but my opinion will be my personal opinion. I respect everyone’s opinions but I am sticking with my own.
@@Gabers_Animation I do have to wonder why you only 'somewhat' get it when the previous dude is spitting. We see first hand in the game that harry when temporarily woken up from the symbiotes control has literally no idea whats going on. He's a hostage, possessed against his will and has no control whatsoever
What happened is they came up with “heal the world” and thought it was such a cool line they shifted the whole story on that line
This is what I've been trying to tell people this video explained it perfectly
I honestly think the game's story was close to being great and had a lot of the right ingredients, but was kinda afraid of really going all in with its potential specifically with Venom. I don't even think the symbiote invasion was a bad idea on paper, the problem was the context of the invasion and Venom acting like an evil monster trying to take over the world. Since you talked about how you would've done Venom, I should share some ideas for how I would rewrite the character while keeping Harry as the host.
Something I think would've really improved the story without straying away from what we got too much is having the Venom symbiote talk to Peter during the black suit arc. I mean the symbiote having actual conversations with Peter and not just tempting him. It could really flesh out Venom's character and develop a deep emotional connection between the symbiote and Peter. Then once we get to the symbiote invasion, Venom would genuinly want to help Harry heal the word by giving everyone symbiote powers. But the conflict comes from that his way of healing the world isn't the right way and very unnatural. Also, I have an idea on how Venom's relationship with Peter can depend on the player's actions. How I would do this is making an unusual change to the symbiote Peter boss fight and I'm not gonna explain it here since it'll fill the comments section. But let's just say you would have to make a choice which will result in either Harry as Venom wanting Peter to be with him like what we got or Harry as Venom hating Peter similar to the classic Venom from the comics.
I'm making a short series of Reddit posts on how I would improve Venom's character and I already made two if anyone wants more context on my idea. But the point I'm getting at a lot the problems with Insomniac Venom can be fixable while keeping Harry as the host and the symbiote invasion as the third act.
I think the idea was that Harry wanted to heal the world and venom made him think spreading the symbiote globally would remove disease and pain and heal the world until after the scream fight, he realized it wouldn’t
You’re right, but it didn’t stop with the scream fight. He still wanted to heal the world until his last breath.
He was a COOL adaptation. I hear your points.
I honestly think they cooked with spiderman 2. Although i do see your point. It probably would have been better with eddie brock as venom and have him like the ruthless venom we saw in the movies. But maybe they were just building it up for the third installment when harry or osborn become green goblin. So harry does have a lot of hatred towards peter and wants to kill him for good.
It didn’t even NEED to be Eddie but there was no hatred of spiderman or obsession it’s just I wanna take over the world
@@ScarletSpiderIIhe still wanted to bond with Peter but instead of taking on Eddie’s pure hatred he took on Harry’s desire to heal the world and wanted Peter to be a part of it
I appreciate this video because it gives me a new perspective on why people don't like this interpretation of venom.
Having said that while I don't think this interpretation of venom is perfect because it needed more time in the oven to really flesh out this interpretation of venom ultimately I think insomniac did a fine job with the symbiotes/venom because it's clear as day if you ever read chip zdarsky 's spider Shadow in terms of interpretation because the way how the symbiote manipulate and takes concepts and ideas that a person has and twisting it into something dark is exactly what that book touches upon (hell even near the end of that book it becomes Web of shadows so there's that) which I think both that book and Spider-Man 2 does really well for the story they're trying to tell.
So while it is not a traditional venom that we're all used to It is an interpretation of venom that aligns with the comics and I think it worked but it could have been explored more. Hopefully when we get that venom game he'll be either more fleshed out or will be more in line with the Eddie Brock interpretation of the character.
It aligns with the spider shadow comics that’s the what if comic where spiderman becomes venom right? I love that comic but this is nothing like that imo at least 😭 similar but very different and portly written compared to that comic
@@ScarletSpiderII I wouldn't say poorly written because the objective of the symbiotes and both Spider-Man 2 and spider Shadow is literally one for one hence why I said insomniac must have been inspired by that venom And also some MCU energy because the MCU does not follow the comics characters one-for-one either so there's that.
At the end of the day they just really needed to flush out this venom I think he's fine and looks really cool but he needed more time in the oven.
We'll I'm not sure Harry Osborn will be his host again.
@@robertkenny1201 I don't think that's going to happen either I think we might get Eddie Brock considering the fact that there was a cut concept art where MJ went to the daily bugle around the time The symbiote invasion happened so they might take that concept and remix it
7:48 TV show ultimate spider man: 🧍♂️I'm also hated for being bonded to harry at first
I think in the comics Eddie feels like he is spewing out venom when he first bonds with the suit.
Tots agree. An important motivating factor for venom is the symbiote's personal knowledge of peters weaknesses including hus identity and peter rejecting it. On top of that eddie brock's character arc was meant to be representative of the of the whole " with great power comes great responsibility" thing and its lessons. His misuse of the symbiote's power and willingness to embrace its dark side was meant to demostrate the difference between him and peter. Peter was conflicted by the suit's power and the lack of control in exchange for the greater power made him question his own motives. The symbiote is also a metaphor for drugs, alchohol, steroids, power or influence and how it can change a person. In comparison peter had a internal compass that cause him to be grounded even when he received his base while eddie with even more power immediately used it to the extreme of his personal benefit. Harry is just really a scared sick guy that got highjacked by a stronger force whereas brock was a capable person that felt entitled to more just because he always felt as if he was better than others. The fact the harry needed it to live and would not have become a bad person had he never got the symbiote undermines the themes and messages that venom was created to convey. The idea that all that glitters isnt gold doesnt apply to harry because the symbiote kept him alive and gave him a chance at normalcy not just power stacked upon an already fully capable person
OMG YES THATS MORE STUFF I FORGOT TO MENTION!! U so right but they did sort of utilize that in the game but not as much as other adaptations
Even though i really liked venom in spiderman 2 i was dissapointed because of the false advertisement of the CGI trailee "be greater together" where Venom is absolutely ruthless and a threat and in the game the only time he was ruthless was when he killed kraven aside from that he didnt feel like a threat
Love that you chose to use the John Bubniak footage (ps4 version) when showing cutscenes/gameplay from sm1, truly is better then the remaster.
i just prefer the old face lol
@@ScarletSpiderIIsame
Venom in Spider-Man 2 IS OBSESSED with Peter and a lot of y’all dont understand that aspect. Sure, Venom is using Harry as a puppet but throughout the entire final act Venom keeps trying to convince Peter to join him because he sees Peter as his perfect match. Venom taking over the world is the same thing as trying to kill Spider-Man in the sense of “if I can’t have Spider-Man then nobody can” it’s the same Venom written in a different way because Insomniac wants their story to be DIFFERENT. That’s what they did and they also made Venom really really SCARY compared to the normal Venom that we got and I gotta say I love it because it shows how menacing Venom is as a character and why we shouldnt get in between him and Spider-Man. Y’all like to try to break down certain characters by how they were in the comics without thinking about the fact that there are TWO different writers and Insomniac has stated time and time again how they wanted to write Stan Lee’s characters in their own way. They literally stated from the beginning that these characters would be different and y’all still wanna continue to talk bad about them instead of realizing that Insomniac didn’t want to attempt to make the masterpieces that Stan Lee had done, instead, they want to write these characters the way that they saw them and what they perceived them to be after Stan Lee created them.
just because it’s different doesn’t mean they executed it good AND doesn’t mean they had to stray away from core character traits and what makes the character themselves thus making the characters almost unrecognizable.
@@ScarletSpiderII yes, I agree they could’ve done him better, but, I’m not gonna say that this Venom is a disgrace to Venom in general. There was a lot of the Spider-Man 2 story that is just hidden and you’ve gotta look for it to find it and therefore the story was executed poorly because most people aren’t going to pick up on things like that
Spider-Man fans when insomniac wants to change things up and not follow the traditional comics that have done the exact same thing twelve thousand times: 😱
spectacular spider-man from 2008 also adapted eddie venom well.
8:55 No. that wasn’t it.
- Flashback Mission
- Introduction to EMF
- Coney Island
- Saving Tombstone
- Peter’s temporary death
Otto’s entire screen time was literally less than 2/3 of Harry’s time BEFORE becoming Venom.
you didnt know the secret to the drip till i showed you...AYY bro using the beat to the most goated juice song rn
this is so tru, now that hype & everything is gon the game is just almost like "yea it was good, but they could've did 10x better" maybe we'll get something like comic book accurate venom in the next game somehow & maybe do somethin w carnage as well, if they don't use him in the dlc
I was extremely hyped for Venom being in Spider-Man 2 because I thought he was going to finally be the Lethal Protector version of the character. I love Spider-Man, I have played Spider-Man games, but we have never had a free-roaming game where you get to play as the Lethal Protector version of Venom.
I think it would have been more impactful if we had some scenes showing how harry struggles after losing the sympiote and showing us how he's really sick and slowly dying so we can see how he's really desperate to get the sympiote back
Hey man quick tip on your background music. You gotta have background audio that matches with your voice. You’re speaking in a relaxed and quiet manner, but you’re using a trap beat with hi-hats and bass that are constantly peaking over your voice. The point of background music is to stay in the background there’s numerous times where I start hearing the music more than your voice. Just switch up the music to where in flows with your flow and make sure it doesn’t take over your voice.
I mean most people enjoy, I usually try to listen back and make sure my voice is loud enough but maybe sometimes I am talking quiet tho I appreciate the feedback!!
I think the real problem is the fact they had to cut so much of the second half of the game. They probably didn’t want everything they were trying to do in this game and save it for something else that’ll be paid for.
Yea but still if what’s in the game rn was the general basis of their idea of venom as far as him being a VILLAIN there’s no possible way it could’ve been any better.. yea they cut a lot out but like I doubt it would drastically change the outcome considering the basis of their venom there’s nothing good there everything I discussed in this vid that venom should be isn’t in the game already and I doubt they would’ve added any of that anyway if that made any sense
They honestly tried to put too much into the story, IMO. they could of done so much better, Dont get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed the game myself. And I do consider this a venom (especially after venomverse comics) But they put too much that could of been done later, either in another game or dlc. but instead they kill venom off.
The whole knull symbiotes, grendels wings (Was not earned) As scar says, they could of added so much more strife and reason for harry to turn on pete. then again they basically made the symbiote give most influence over harry.
I would of loved to see atleast the symbiote alive at the end, so maybe it could eventually bond to someone else, that actually does harbor a pure hatred for pete. This was just a major flop on that part.
@@zero1872001 I don’t know if venom is actually killed off, there has to be some story explanation for why symbiotes are still running around after the ending. I know carnage is still out there also, there are a few ways they can have the venom symbiote bond to someone else. I’m almost positive they’re doing a Venom game, and I’d imagine it’s after the events of SM2.
@@zero1872001 plus Tony Todd said like 10% of his lines were used, so most likely saved for something else, and venom didn’t do anything before he bonded w Harry and Peter.
The other symbiotes are not venom though.If that were the case, carnage wouldnt be around either. the way they did it, was antivenom destroyed every cell of the venom symbiote. but guess we will see.. @@addyznxanyzz3179 as i have stated before, they might do the whole codex ordeal as well. to bring him back.
I think the first time (and only other time) Harry was Venom, in Ultimate Spider-Man (the cartoon) was executed a lot better. Harry had a motivation (seeking his father's approval) and was able to fight back when the symbiote took control, though only for short moments
I honestly think if the leak about the venom solo game is true then this game was more so Venom’s introduction to the insomiacverse which is a shame cause there could have been more. We get time to bond with Harry and see the symbiote really bring out the worst in Peter but once we get the big guy himself there isn’t really much outside of what to expect. Alright we’re pretty quickly building up to the final battle where Peter has to confront him abandoning and trying to save his best friend while combatting what is essentially a demon who almost made him ruin his own life. We see Peter throughout the symbiote invasion arc really be forced to confront his mistakes (taking MJ for granted) and confront some of the pain he still has from Aunt May’s death. Once Venom is defeated Peter takes a much needed break from Spider-Man, Miles takes on more responsibility and we get Green Goblin set up for game 3. This is all fine but I genuinely think there should have been more during this arc and with Venom. We could have gotten more of the obscure symbiotes being boss fights to give the symbiote invasion more time to be fleshed out, missions with venom himself to learn more about him. Maybe set up a possible anti hero arc later on by showing Venom is more or less a puppet for Knull and we could see hints he wants more than to be a parasite but follows what he’s been told. Just feel there should have been more but I still enjoy the game.
“Using Harry’s body as a puppet” like when it used Pete’s body when he was sleep? Or how it uses every hosts body ? Including Eddie Brock?
Yea but there’s a difference from venom and then when peter is the first person bonded.. once the VENOM HOST and the symbiote are bonded there isn’t really the symbiote taking over it’s more of a combined effort between the host and the symbiote they are pretty much in sync so.. not sure where ur going with that bro
I will stay strong knowing that Neversoft Venom will always be the best adaptation
Most agreeable
i think if they ddn't use venoms name then this would be a good villain the problem is they don't explain enough and they don't do the whole syboise thing perfect harmony stuff so the "we" in "we are venom" doesn't work it should have been "I am venom" because in the venom let their be carnage movie venom dose takeover a few humans
Insomniac’s Venom over time will just become cringe. He was just badly written and not fleshed out enough.
real
I sometimes think that around the last day that peter had the symbiote, he was closer to being a venom then venom was actually portrayed in the game.
Good video and I wonder if we gonna get knull in a dlc I know he’s absurdely powerful but I’m just curious
I doubt it, since Knull is beyond an Avengers lvl threat and literally required godly intervention to beat.
@@DragonD_Dojima yeah I don’t know why I even brought him up bro created the necrosword and killed a whole celestial
Eddie being venom is a bit hard to take seriously. Like my guy loses one job and decides he’s gonna go kill the guy. That’s just crazy it’s established through a ton of continuities that Peter is the perfect host so why on earth does the symbiote want to kill Peter? I’m a huge venom fan btw but it doesn’t really make much sense.
It’s a toxic ex I can’t have you no one else can type of situation
@@ScarletSpiderII it just seems like a weak motive/goal. Like this creature has the capacity to “heal the world” it has near infinite knowledge due to its hive mind. It augments its host physically to almost immortal levels. Like the amount of tech and understanding humanity could have access to is unparalleled. I’ve seen fanfic writers make the symbiote far more interesting and compelling compared to official cannon writers.
It felt rejected when peter rips it off in every continuity. Ts is universal hate 😂
@@jamiebowler4693 Because that's the entire point behind the character. Eddie's reasoning for hating Spider-Man is weak because Eddie himself is a resentful person who doesn't take responsibility for the choices he's made in life and instead blames another person for his own failures. That's what makes Venom a dark reflection of Spider-Man: he has all of Peter's power, but not the sense of responsibility Spider-Man posseses. It's literally what would happen if the symbiote attached itself to someone who doesn't have the same morals as the main hero and totally hates him.
I love this version of Venom. Probably my favourite venom, yet he was literary an Avengers level threat
I guess if u say so 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, I’m starting to see why fans are mixed with this game, especially with Venom. I posted this in another video, but I think I have a solution to the Venom problem. And it involves some changes.
1. Give Peter and Miles separate game modes. So that their story arcs aren’t crammed together. Maybe get them to work together briefly in one mission.
2. Make the game longer. So we can spend more time with the characters.
3. Add Eddie Brock into the story.
4. Don’t have the symbiotes fully control characters. Just only let them release their negative emotions.
Now, onto Venom.
Eddie Brock, like Harry, would come back into Peter’s life. Through flashbacks, we learn that Brock used to work at the Daily Bugle, had a fiancée, and a successful news show. One day, he met Peter, and taking a liking to him, gave Peter the opportunity to work at the Bugle. This led to Peter becoming a photographer. However, due to Spider-Man’s growing popularity, and Peter’s photos of Spider-Man selling more money, Eddie begins to lose views on his show. Desperate, he faked a photo using his fiancée’s computer, since she works as an editor, and made it look like Spider-Man was a crook. However, Peter learned it was fake, and was a copy of his photo. This led to Eddie getting fired, losing his engagement, and his show getting cancelled. This led to Brock leaving New York to San Francisco.
9 years later, he comes back after San Francisco left him jobless, and he tries to get his old job back. But Jameson won’t trust him, until they both learn of the Emily May Foundation, and since it’s an Oscorp facility, Brock offers to try to find something on the foundation, and Jameson decides to give him one last chance. As he leaves, he runs into MJ, and the two talk, and after learning that she’s Peter’s girlfriend, decides to spite him. He talks about Peter with MJ, telling her about how he and Peter were pals, until Peter “betrayed” him, and as he tells her that he’s gonna throw her away when he’s done using her, he endangers their safety in traffic, leading to MJ to tell him “Peter may not be perfect, but he’s twice the guy you’ll ever be.” before leaving. This angers Brock, but his words do plant the seeds of MJ’s insecurities with Peter.
Eddie would go into the Emily May Foundation, and he runs into Peter. At first, Brock wants nothing to do with him, but Peter tries to apologize about years ago. Brock just tells him to keep his sympathy, saying that Parker doesn’t deserve sympathy. During his stay at the foundation, he sees a military uniform in the hallway.
Later, he breaks in, and finds that the uniform is missing, and seeing black goo on it, begins to suspect something. He’s been trying to figure out where Spider-Man got the new look and powers, and went back to the foundation, seeing the uniform gone. This leads to him getting suspicious of the foundation even more. He then runs into Harry, and the two chat, until Brock brings up the exact same thing he told MJ. Harry doesn’t believe that, but when Peter refuses to give him the symbiote, he begins to believe that. So does MJ, which leads to her trying to prove herself by finding Kraven’s location, getting herself captured. This also leads to Harry telling his dad he knows where the symbiote is, leading to Norman getting his security to hunt Spider-Man, by any means necessary.
Eventually, after Peter got the symbiote off, he goes to Oscorp to destroy it. Eddie, who broke in to find something on the foundation, learns that Peter is Spider-Man as a result. Harry also comes in, and after Peter webs up Eddie, he tells Harry they have to destroy the Symbiote. Enraged, Harry swings his cane at Peter, who dodged, but dropped the container as a result, cracking it. This leads to the Symbiote breaking out, knocking both of them away. It then heads towards the webbed up Brock, and jumps at his face, bonding with him as a result. Eddie then breaks out of the webbing, attacks Spider-Man, and throws him to the side, and Norman sends security to get it off of Brock. Brock rampages through Oscorp, and kills the last remaining hunters, before fighting Kraven. After killing him, Eddie is horrified, and thinks of what he’s done. The Symbiote then talks with Eddie, and the two decide to make a bond to get revenge on Peter for ruining Eddie’s life and rejecting the Symbiote.
Now known as Venom, he attacks Peter the next morning, and the two have a brief fight, before Brock reveals he’s gonna take everything he loves from him, like he did with him. He starts off with stalking Harry, who is dying in the hospital, and Peter fights Eddie to keep him away from Harry. However, Eddie disappears.
Eddie then goes to where Peter lives, and he confronts Peter and MJ, and we get the “We are Venom” line. Then, Venom reproduces the Scream Symbiote, who forcibly bonds with MJ, leading to her fighting Spider-Man. Venom would watch Peter and MJ have their couples counseling across the neighborhood, which is empty due to Scream unleashing the symbiote around it. Venom then leaves after Scream is defeated.
This is when Peter decides to fight back. He and MJ set up a plan to separate Eddie from the symbiote, but there’s one problem. Connors told Spider-Man that Eddie and the symbiote are a perfect match, meaning that the only way to stop Venom is to kill Eddie. Not wanting Brock to die, he and MJ try to find a way that doesn’t involve killing him.
This is when the final boss happens, and it’s in 4 phases.
Brock comes back into his apartment, only to find his place filled with newspapers of him getting fired, and him stealing the symbiote. Thanks to MJ getting old newspapers of Brock fired, and Harry revealing the truth about Venom, who was assumed to be Spider-Man now a monster, Peter redecorated the place. Enraged, Venom chases him, which leads to a chase while playing as Venom. Finally, they reach the top of the daily bugle, where Spider-Man and Venom fight on. Spidey tries to tell Eddie that he needs to remove the symbiote, and tries to talk with Eddie to try to get him to come to his senses, but Brock won’t listen, calling Peter out on ruining his life, how “we gave you what you needed, and you THREW us away!” The fight ends with Venom overpowering Peter, and seeing Jameson below, plans to remove Spider-Man’s mask. However, Peter says “It doesn’t matter what you do to me. It won’t fix your life. Not like this.” Venom growls before saying “Well, get ready for your closeup, Pete.” However, before he could remove his mask, MJ tases Venom, giving Peter the chance to escape. But this leads to Venom kidnapping MJ, and fleeing to the foundation. Webbing her up, he continues to fight Peter, which continues outside and into the nearby church. This is what Peter and MJ planned. They planned to lure Venom to the bell tower in order to separate Eddie from the symbiote. Peter tries to use the bell’s ring in order to get the symbiote off of Brock, like how he got rid of it, but Venom takes the bell, and throws Spider-Man and the bell back to the foundation, injuring Peter.
This is when Peter decides to go for one more plan. He tells the symbiote that it’s proven it’s point that he’s nothing without it, and asks it to take him back. MJ, seeing this, shouts at Peter to don’t, and begins to break out by tasing the web. At first, Eddie refuses, saying “it’s found a better partner in me”, but the symbiote leaves Brock, no matter how much he begged. As Brock goes through a mental breakdown, MJ runs over to Peter, who’s body is consumed by the symbiote. MJ tries to desperately tase Peter to get it off of him, but it’s not working. Realizing Peter could be gone, MJ breaks down in tears, hugging Peter dearly.
In Peter’s mind, the symbiote realizes that Peter doesn’t want him back, and tries to take over, but the thoughts of those close to him defy the Symbiote’s influence, leading to it getting off of Peter. Seeing the symbiote heading towards Eddie, who reacts happily, she goes towards them. Before Eddie could reach out to the symbiote, it is contained by her. He tries to attack her to get it back, but Peter, now conscious, webs Eddie up. He and MJ have an emotional moment, before he swings them away, leaving Brock for the police.
With the symbiote contained, Peter goes to the hospital to talk with Harry. He thinks about giving it to him, but Harry refuses. He tells Peter he understands now that the symbiote really is dangerous, and he’s done either way. He tells Peter to heal the world by getting rid of it somehow. After having a moment, Peter embraces Harry, who peacefully dies in his arms, leaving one single tear. After mourning for Harry, Peter goes to get rid of the symbiote, but not before Norman bursts in, seeing Harry dead, and shouting at Spider-Man why didn’t he give it to him. Peter then buried the symbiote in dry cement, before heading back to May’s house. He begins to set up a version of the Emily May Foundation, but retires as Spider-Man. He couldn’t see himself in that mask after seeing what men like Otto and Eddie have ended up as. Peter would put the mask back on, but only when Norman becomes the Green Goblin.
Why is this a perfect story with different and new twists with some familiar concepts
@@ScarletSpiderIII wouldn’t say perfect, but thank you.
It’s like on one hand I really like venom but they could have done so much with him and make a really good reason for him to want to kill spider-man but we can wait till carnage to see if they can make it better
You also forgot to bring up kraven ..cause kraven view of the world is important to understand what the symbiotic thinks human nature is
Great points. Even the name “Venom” doesn’t even make sense in this story. If Venom is supposed to be a personal poison or venom to Peter, that’s not the case here. Trying to make sense of it, I’d probably think “oh, well maybe he’s a venom/poison to the world” BUT that STILL wouldn’t make sense bc in their eyes, they’re HEALING the world. Literally the opposite of venom. This motivation might get a pass if someone ELSE named them Venom but Harry/the symbiote literally name themselves with the iconic line “We are Venom”. There’s no way the name adds up here.
Kraven tells spider that he is not as venomous as you seem so the symbiote probably wanted to prove that he could be venomous but yeah i see what you are saying and I agree but I still really like Harry as venom since he has more connection to Peter rather than just spider man
Your point is Valid cause I said the same thing but hey…it’s their take on him…do wish he was more Spider-Man like but I what they did was cool in my opinion. Hope he gets to web swing in his solo game 😂😂
You cooked 💯
I think Goblin hates Spider-man as much as Venom does the look on his face when he realised Pete was back in Goblin Nation was priceless
You could argue that we know Harry’s importance because of how he was discussed in PS4
Yea but that’s just he say she say, show me don’t tell me as far as spiderman 2, but for smps4 it was just he say she say setup they didn’t show much other than the dumb post credit scene
When it comes to his design, and his full capabilities they did venom amazing in this game. I see your problem is mainly with the story but keep in mind that this was a new take and a different VERSION of venom. It's okay to take elements from the comics but you cant tell the same story over and over so I had no issues whatsoever.
Just because I said they were missing core character traits doesn’t mean that they need to retell the same story why do people act like spectacular spiderman didn’t add onto / tell a new story with venom vs the comics or vs the animated series? Why do we act like we can’t create new stories with the same characters without completely butchering the character but instead essentially creating a whole new character that is BASED OFF OF BUT ISNT the original beloved character? I just find it stupid imo.
And!? Your POINT is!? Since when did we give out trophies for having an Idea!? Its the EXECUTION that matters and it was POOR in this game
Doing some new is fine...ONLY if you EXECUTE IT. Or else fans are gonna ask why did you change it if you were gonna replace it with CRAP!?
Also you might as well make a NEW character if it has NOTHING in common with what makes them THAT character. You cant just use the powers and call it a day if the story doesnt resemble. Theirs a reason Superman is the original but everyone else with his powers are DIFFERENT characters cause powers are just the cherry on top
@@no.1spidey-fan182 The execution was absolutely Perfect with venom in this game wtf are you talking about they went 100% with it The only thing I don't like it that he was Harry. But the execution was perfect
@@WillactTv Yes and that is the whole point. All the elements are based on 'Eddie Brocks' but only change was Harry Osborn being the host.
You literally are agreeing with everyone if that is you what deslike about it.
Yeah, a new different version that's dogshit lmao
Did it come from space? Is it a symbiote? Black with a white spider design? A Spider-Man villain? Yeah that’s Venom no matter what way you slice it 🤷♂️
No that's not "venom" that's just a symbiote. Eddie and the suit together make up the character of venom
@@leaderofcats4627 so when Flash Thompson had it he wasn’t called Venom? The symbiotes all have their own identity and this symbiote has always introduced itself as venom it only says “we” are Venom when it achieves perfect symbiosis as proven by multiple comics mainly The king in black event Eddie runs around stating HE needs Venom back not WE (Not being a Karen I’ve just done my research and followed the character since I was old enough to read) everyone is entitled to their opinion though
I think Venom wanted to turn the world into Symbiotes so bad because by Coming in contact with the meteorite It connected him to the hive mind and changed his personality and goal but other than that I agree with you
i mean yeah idk about the lore of all that stuff honestly but i guess that would check out but still idk like thats not really the venom we know and love thats just extra lore i feel like
@@ScarletSpiderII yeah I agree and the meteorite isn't even in the comic lore I just thought that because right after peter touched it his suit changed and started getting real wild
I just hope the Venom solo game does a better job characterizing Venom, I also hope either Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson is his host this time, I admit having Harry Osborn as Venom serve as a antagonist and final boss for Marvels Spider-Man 2 was a smart move, but I really think a Venom solo game should star someone who actually was Venom in the comics.
Well I always felt that Harry and Eddie are pretty much the same person if you really think about it
@srstriker6420 They aren't, Harry Osborn is Spider-Man best friend while he's never liked Eddie Brock one little bit, go see the 90s animated series, or read the mainstream comics, Brock and Parker hate each other. Harry Osborn is good person who made mistakes while Eddie Brock is bad man with redeeming qualities.
@@srstriker6420 bro just leave at this point if u think that
Venom not being eddie was a huge let down to me. I don't know why they can never do the story justice. Only in spiderman tas from the freaking 90s got it right. Also eddie is freaking jacked this venom reminds me of spiderman 3 movie majorly. And my biggest disappointment with that movie was eddie was turned into a pencil thin person. Here they did the exact same thing. Eddie basically looked like arnold schwarzenegger and that was way cooler to me. Venom movies were also disappointing because 1. there was no spiderman all that awesome plot skipped and 2 he's supposed to start out a villian only later does he become an anti hero.
I personally think venom the symbiote is aggressive is because Peter made it like that due to him being aggressive and wanting revenge against kraken so the suit picked up Peter’s more aggressive motives and tried to take them to a level Peter wasn’t able to go to so when harry got the suit it was confused and enraged with Peter because it thinks it was abandoned for no reason. So when harry was all mad it was probably temporary but since harry isn’t a mentally strong as Peter he and his goals were taken out of context and turned into hate. Also how is hate turning into obsession a motivation.
I liked Eddie being venom more than Harry being Venom, cuz hello, Harry was already venom in the ultimate Spider-Man tv series
And if Eddie became Venom here, you'd complain that there was no buildup, and we'd have to point out that it's nostalgia bait. (Looking at you, Disney)
@@FirestoneAnimation Not if it was handled WELL and you can say the same about Doc Ock. Eddie was already teased twice in this universe so its not like he's popping outta thin air.
Or if its something fresher you want. Make Kraven Venom and adapt the "better spiderman" element from The Last Hunt arc
@no.1spidey-fan182 that I can agree on. I still enjoy the bit of Harry and Venom but it gradually declined into big monster destroy stuff.
@@FirestoneAnimation you're logic is flawed, because based on that logic, there was no build up for doc ock and kraven as well.
@melonguy12203 I can agree on Kraven, due to the only hint we get is from Flint, but I'll have to disagree on Doc Ock. There was plenty of buildup because after the first couple of missions, you go to him and when he first appears, his silhouette represents the arms he would later create.
You were 100% right about insomniacs venom having full control. The motivation is the same though. Venom is obsessed with peter. Saying lines to miles like, “You tore us apart.” “You we’re jealous.” So by the standpoint of venom being in control he has a clear obsession with peter.
Yea but that shit is dumb what’s he obsessing over? Healing the world? That shit is dumb as fuck imo
@ScarletSpiderII It's obsessed with Peter cause it bonded with him mentally and it felt the power Peter had. Power can be like a drug. Also, being linked to Harry, they are best friends, so he attached to that closeness the symbiote has never felt before. It's just like when a dog becomes familiar with its owner. Even if you abuse the dog, the dog still wants to be with you.
None of that was mentioned in the game bro
@@ScarletSpiderIIHe’s obsessive over Peter. From the beginning the symbiote wanted to bind too Peter. There are multiple scenes where the venom symbiote reaches out and tries to bind with Peter while it’s still on harry. Even the scene where Peter got the symbiote harry did not make venom go too Peter venom did it himself. Just like in the comics venom is pissed at Peter for willingly tearing him off. (After miles convinced him in insomniacs version) Venom wanted to stay with Peter.
The motivation(s) part is where I feel like I disconnected. The hate isn't turning into an obsession, Venom believes that Peter is the perfect host, and due to Peter rejecting it, that's what causes the hate. Venom didn't just land on Earth hating Peter. It only hated him after the fact that Peter rejected it. I wouldn't consider, "hate turning into obsession" as a motive either, because that's just a transition either away. All in all, if you get rid of all the excess, the comic Venom you portray has one motive too; killing Spider-Man. The strong bond between host and symbiote hatred is also not a motive, it's just explaining why the symbiote bonds so well. It seems like most of those motives are just multiple parts of the same thing.
That’s not a motivation that’s just part of the character bro and it’s Eddie’s hatred or the typical hosts pure hatred of spider-man spinning the symbiotes hate also into an obsession maybe I misspoke somewhere in the video but that’s definitely apart of venoms character
I guess to be more specific the motives of venom are from Eddie or whoever getting their life ruined by spidey and the symbiote being rejected by spiderman anything else is a character trait venom gains after they bond and become venom
venom doesn't want to heal the world he wants to create this world where he has a family he continuesely tries to get Peter to join him practically begging him because he did care for both harry and Peter even if he manipulated them into doing what he thought was right for them I feel this would of worked better if we got at least 30 more minutes with it
If they did all the classic venom stuff it wouldn’t be an “original take”. They were trying something new with the character, can’t be mad at them for being ambitious
I’ve BEEN sayin that venom shoulda been Kraven in this game. Would’ve cured Kavens problem of his body betraying him, he could have turned his lil private army into symbiote a (to keep the symbiote enemy type). Kraven was already a lethal threat and I really feel like Kraven would have truly had that symbiotic relationship with venom.
Harry and venom feel like 2 different characters which jus ruins the whole concept of the symbiote. Whereas Kraven and venom would bond, kraven wants the perfect hunt, wants a equal pray (the spider-men) and venom hates spider man/ wants to kill him cuz of Peter abandoned him.
Instead of the whole “best friend turned to villain” storyline, Kraven, someone Peter does NOT know and has no ties too would have been better.
I can’t get behind kraven being venom tbh I don’t think most fans would be pleased w/ that
My problem is after Harry says “We are Venom.” Peter still refers to him as Harry. Hell, he didn’t even call or refer Otto as Doctor Octopus in the first game. I wish that each time Peter said Harry instead of Venom, I would’ve loved a moment where Harry and the Symbiote could’ve been like “STOP CALLING US HARRY!!!!!!!!, WE ARE VENOM!!!!!!!!!!!”. I also wish they did what spectacular did in which we go inside Peter’s mind and see his memories of Uncle Ben, the Spider-bite and a lot more of his past before he took the black suit off, true Miles and Martian Li go inside Peter’s mind later in the game, but all we really saw was hallucinations of His villains and the memory of Aunt May and it was still great, just not as great as the way Spectacular handled it in my opinion. I also find it werid that Miles and MJ go back to trusting Peter quickly right after he gets the suit off, yea Peter was back to his normal self, but I wish for the rest of the game after all he did in the black suit, Peter would lose the trust of Miles and MJ and they would fear him because of what the black suit made him do throughout the game’s story and he would feel guilty and would make it up for them to regain his trust, that would’ve been great to me. Overall, Marvel’s Spider-Man 2 is a great game, but there’s some things in the story I wished they fixed and I wanted Venom to be a lot more better than what we got in the final game, but I’m very much looking for Marvel’s Spider-man 3 and just like I predicted years ago when Marvel’s Spider-Man 2’s first trailer came out is that if Harry was Venom , something would have to happen to him in order for Norman to become The Green Goblin and I was right, only difference was is that I thought Harry would’ve died instead of going in a Coma. My prediction for Marvel’s Spider-man 3 is that Peter Parker will be killed by the Green Goblin, yes it will be heartbreaking, but I can definitely see Insomniac doing a bold move like it and I respect it.
I understand the criticisms here, however, I feel like now that we know insomniac are going to make a venom lethal protector game, everything makes a lot more sense, at least to me. Venom in this game was meant to enhance Peter and Harry’s arcs while also setting up the events for sm3. This game also gives venom a reason to hate spiderman after the final fight, which will likely lead him to bond with Eddie Brock in the lethal protector game. But for now, only time will tell I guess lol
That wouldn’t even make sense venom was already created it’s literally too late for that not the game but the hating spiderman part and their arcs weren’t enhanced maybe Peter but definitely not Harry dude didn’t even die
What I meant by enhancing Harry’s arc was the buildup of his anger and jealousy that we see in the cutscenes leading up to him eventually becoming venom. When it came to its boiling point and venom bonded with Harry once again, his “heal the world” vision became a twisted version of itself.
Moving into venom hating spiderman, I think it could work out, especially because the leaks reveal that the extreme carnage dlc will play a pivotal role in setting up the lethal protector game, I do trust that insomniac can pull this off.
Both ways instrumental go crazy
YESSIR!!
Ever since marvels Spider-Man came out in 2018, it brought with it a bunch of fake Spider-Man fans that were never really into Spider-Man until that point. I remember everyone back then saying Spider-Man games were mid or boring or just simply didn’t play them. I’m telling you that marvels Spider-Man 2s story was very poorly made. If it’s shown me anything it’s that insomniac couldn’t handle putting 2 Spider-men in the same world to play as. On top of that insomniac only cares about sales to the highest degree. I mean just look at all the light hearted content in that game and the SIDE QUESTS and references that get made…yeah… seems like they’re trying to cater to as many audiences as possible for the sales if you ask me. Touching back up with how they handle the game though it’s just too family friendly…they very clearly don’t wanna take risks and to give miles the spotlight they diminish Pete’s character. The game as a whole isn’t a waste or even bad, the gameplay is extremely compelling and fun I love the parry system. But the entire story, just the way it feels and how I feel watching all these cutscenes, just feels wrong and not at all good. Really wanna harp on the game being too family friendly like seriously, I’m supposed to believe these are grown adults with the way they act SERIOUSLY. Miles is just a kid but still what the hell were they thinking. They could have at least made Mary Jane beautiful…
Bro why did venom snatch rhino the fuck up like a 50 cent bag of chips 😂😂😂😂😂
lol
Although I WILL say..having Venom as Eddie Brock at this point seems kinda impossible. It was foreshadowed in the ending of the very first game Venom was Harry, we seen him with the suit in the ending, and THAT was all because Harry was sick, and the cure for him was currently a POISON....or a Venom...
Do you not think they had too much split attention? Like if they'd just focused on Pete and Mj and Harry, they could have brought a lot more to Harry/ Venom? But it was like "Omigosh, Harry might die!.. but Miles has an essay to write." Or "Oh no, Harry is feeling resentful towards Pete because of his relationship with his father, we should explore this further.... but some dude needs Miles's help getting a prom date." Or "Venom is out there, he could be hunting Peter right now, destroying his life and relationships.... but more importantly Miles' gf needs to help a criminal get away with defacing public property."
I get it, Miles is cool and Into the Spiderverse was popular but he just had a solo game and he was irrelevant to the plot of this one (aside from Peter v Miles fight, which was great in terms of gameplay but we are talking about narrative, so really MJ and Harry should have been the ones to bring him back from the edge)