Another part of a video series from Wordonfire.org. Bishop Barron will be commenting on subjects from modern day culture. For more visit www.wordonfire.org/
One of the best aspects of this film is the depiction of human frailty - torn between wanting to give witness to the Cistercian charism and spirituality and martyrdom for Faith - and the genuine fears and weakness of ordinary men.. the same challenge that Jesus faced in Gethsemani. A beautiful film with a simple and genuine message.
Brilliant analysis of the movie Father. I really want to rent this movie now. Thank you so very much for your ministry; I think that you have helped more people come closer to God with your ministry than you may think. God bless you and keep you.
I must admit my take on the title "Of Gods and Men", is that, taking the lead from Ps 82 "I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;", the reference is to the character of the men who chose to stay and face their death. Although all are created in the divine image, only some reveal it. Their staying reflected the character of the Son of the Most High. Therefore they are "Gods" and their assassins,"men".
to be really really honest with you or as some of us in aus say "to be upfront with you " i'm more than a bit suss about you which in a back handed way is a bit of a compliment .because being very skeptical in my search for truth and testing everything ,i find the potentially most dangerous people are the gifted ones at communication and ability to influence. you are one of those , so smooth ,and with that air of certainty and confidence. similar to Dick Cheney and Bibi Netanyahu. present themselves as your new best mate and hiding the agenda they're running [consciously and unconsciously] NOW that being said i TOTALLY agree with your review on this incredible film . i'm a bit biased and easily influenced because of my love and respect for Michael Lonsdale .he bearly makes me cry again in this he's so good . so thanks Bishop .[but i'm still watching you and sifting very carefully what you say. also i'm an ex evangelical happy clapper .so not sure what class that now puts me in . AND i have to mention my other favourite french actor in this movie, Olivier Rabourdin ,who when he played the crim gold smuggler ,opportunist ]brilliant brilliant performance ] in amazon gold [guyane] prayed this prayer out in the jungle before they all started digging ,which is either the most blasphemous prayer i've ever heard or the most honest [humble and therefore as t d jakes most eloquently puts it "tripped the switch of grace "] it's in episode 3 of season 1 . by Olivier Rabourdin's character antoine serra .who's the boss of these scoundrels' "lord bless the earth we're about to dig,reward us for our work.for we sinners live in mud.we are made of mud .our prayers rise up to you. the gold we find belongs to you. it will return to you but for the time it will be in our hands [till somebody tries to pinch it ] we thank you Amen"
"What is most essential, most determining in the image of the cross is the necessity of freely and voluntarily accepting it and taking it up. Christ freely, voluntarily took upon Himself the sins of the world, and raised them up on the cross, and thereby redeemed them and defeated hell and death. To accept the endeavor and the responsibility voluntarily, to freely crucify your sins -- that is the meaning of the cross, when we speak of bearing it on our human paths. Freedom is the inseparable sister of responsibility. The cross is this freely accepted responsibility, clear-sighted and sober. The free path of Golgotha -- that is the true imitation of Christ." - Mother Maria Skobtsova, Martyr of World War II
I agree. Excellent review! I saw this DVD at blockbusters and am hoping to remember to take it out and watch it next time. I looks exciting! even if it is a very quiet movie.
It is also important to note that this film calls us to recognize the "Bully Boys" in our own Church as well. While it is a film that profoundly calls out those despotic and tyrannical forces found in the geopolitical conflicts of today and in our last century, also in question are those wielding the status of their hierarchical positions to intimidate and ultimately silence the progressive movements in the Church.
Surely, one may just as well call those who in the name of 'progress' (an essentially meaningless word in that context) try to change the meaning of the word of their god as it is found in their bible, in favour of men rather than their god. It has certainly happened in the Anglican Church, where priests have been cancelled by 'those wielding the status of their hierarchical positions to intimidate and ultimately silence' and cancel those who resist the more egregious 'progressive' movements in that church.
@BeingItself I don't know how you drew the conclusion from this video that I think God is "a meddling knob twister!" I mean: no idea. And God's providence is not at odds with God's nature as the ground of being, just the contrary. As far as "wooly theology" goes, friend, I would remove the plank in my own eye if I were you!
@tfrenn thanks for the input, I appreciate it; yet "Be Not Afraid" from Pope JP2 seems like a better approach for us, more in line with the Christian Spirit.
@BeingItself Well, you're just sayin' wrong, friend. The ground of being is the criterion of good and evil. In that sense he is said, quite correctly, to judge wickedness. And though he doesn't speak in the ordinary way, he speaks constantly through the intelligibility of the world that he has made.
No comparison, I'd say. 'The Mission' for all its beauty is shallow/flashy, with an entirely different ethic, in that the monk adopts warrior's solution to their problem.
I have not watched the movie yet but I have thought the title may have pertained to Christ saying "ye are gods" in the sense that we are the dwelling place of God Himself. Thus, you have extraordinary men (the gods, i.e. monks) and you have ordinary men guided or even misguided by the violence around them.
@BeingItself The ground of being is the unconditioned act of existence. This entails that it is in possession of all ontological perfection. So of course the ground of being can think. Friend, you're the one who is experiencing the cognitive dissonance here.
@BeingItself Can you fully describe: The beauty of a rainbow? (better yet of a double rainbow?) The smile of a baby? The smell of a fragant flower? The first kiss from the person you loved? The beauty of a sunset or sunrise? The love you receive from you Mother or Father? etc, etc, etc. If you ever can do that... you might, just might be able to fully describe or understand God!!!! Blessing to you!!!
@wimsweden I think these are very good questions,but how could anyone answer them? I suppose you could start from a Platonic, Aristotelian, Augustinian, Thomist, Spinozist, or Existential point of view, but any answer would be a mere hypothesis. "Now we see but through a glass darkly."
@BeingItself Can you full describe: The beauty of a rainbow? (better yet of a double rainbow?) The smile of a baby? The smell of a fragant flower? The first kiss from the person you loved? The beauty of a sunset or sunrise? The love you receive from you Mother or Father? etc, etc, etc. If you ever can do that... you might, just might be able to fully describe or understand God!!!! Blessing to you!!!
@wimsweden Everyone gets their due, not just the unjust. But helping out with RCIA and dozens of converts to Catholicism, as well as a long life as a Catholic, I have yet to hear of any1 believing in God for the sake of feeling like the bad guys get theirs. If you are even close to the Christian spirit, seeing the sin within oneself quickly cures you of the desire for vengeance.
@BeingItself --Thank you for defending life. I thought you would answer in the affirmative since you equate exorcism with the 'abuse of the mentally ill.' I'm not sure that I follow since I expect you to quote some number (fictious or otherwise) that points to the number of 'deaths' resulting from an exorcism.
But remember the monks had the opportunity to leave. If they left they could've served the world as keepers of God's word. By leaving with the terrorists they were saying we are not slaves to this heartless planet where the powerful assert themselves. In giving their lives totally to God do they ascend to complete divinity. Which is what makes the one monk who stayed and did survive precarious. Most movies which challenge faith like Scorsese's, "Silence" present that internal struggle between our residency as humans and our desire to know God.
@12aug96 How many Muslims were killed by Christians for reasons of their faith in the twentieth century? You might think of the Iraq and Afghan wars as tragedies, but those who died in them were not martyrs.
@wordonfirevideo "the intelligibility of the world" And yet our statisticians fail to find this connection. O well, they can only forecast the weather for three days, and with very limited certainty, so... But there's still a long way from this in my view hypothetical intelligibility to commands like "do this" and "don't do that", so I think BeingItself has a point.
Where men can course, bully, swing swords that flows the blood, and kills the simple man. It is the spirits that move, the true spirits of ages its as true now as ever and ever more. It is the spirit that corrects that knows faded footprints.
@yankeesuperstar In 1964, Pope Paul VI released Father Martin from the vows of Poverty and Obedience in the Jesuit Order, but confirmed his vow of Celibacy. Pope Paul instructed Father Martin to report directly to the reigning Holy Father whoever he may be, or to some member of the papal Curia the reigning Pope designates. Because he is not affiliated with any diocese, Father does not wear clerical clothes in public. He celebrates Holy Mass daily.
May I note that it is not certain that the French trappists where killed by muslim extremists... there are good reasons to believe the army needed to get rid of them. The movie leaves room for that interpretation too. The biggest 'bully' in the movie seems to be the general who's fighting the extremists. This of course doesn't contradict Fr. Barron's excellent analysis of the Psalm words, I only wish to add 'corrupt governments' to the gang of false gods, along with the 'crazy fundamentalists'.
Father, I see that you give reviews on movies and books, I would like you opinion on the Catholic author, Malichi Martin, who wrote "The Jesuits" and "Windswept House". According to him the Church is just about finished. Any comments ?
@EspressoFan4Life I only know him from these vids and comments, and that is enough to see his inconsistencies. Not only that, but I also find his conduct highly immoral. For example, he endorses the belief in demons and the practice of exorcism. Such beliefs and idiotic rituals cause the death and suffering of many innocent people, usually the mentally ill.
@wordonfirevideo Who said anything about nonsense. I'm not talking about audible speech. Is the psalmist communicating Gods thoughts or whatever? If so, then then your prior concept of God as "the ground of being" is false. The "ground of being" cannot think. I realize me pointing out your inconsistent conceptions of God is causing you some uncomfortable cognitive dissonance. My advice? Don't preach contradictory conceptions of God.
@SIPTAR12 Hi, SIPTAR12. Billybagbom here. Do my eyes deceive me, or are you taking a stand here for Christians? My last encounter with you was not quite so beneficent, as I recall. (I could be wrong, of course. We Christians have to add that obligatory caveat.)
@BeingItself Again: oy vey! Have you ever used the expression, "the voice of my conscience?" It's an image, a metaphor, but that doesn't make the communication of your conscience any less "real." There is not a binary option between straightforward univocal language and nonsense!
@wordonfirevideo Re-watch your own video. You read from Psalms, in which God speaks and passes judgement. That is a naive anthropomorphic conception of God. Hardly the "ground of being" concept you have endorsed elsewhere. Strive for a little consistency. Just sayin'.
@wordonfirevideo Oh, so the monks were killed because of their faith in the prophet Isá (pbuh) and Bush invaded Iraq to free the world from WMDs? Yea right! Nowadays it's always about the power, money and pleasure of the Puppet Masters.
Chinese whispers, smoke and mirrors, pageantry and pompous display, gilded halls and sumptuous robes, false humility and pious affectation...when he comes, you'll be among the first to feel the fire
![[FULL EP.69] #เอิร์นจิรวรรณ เปิดบ้านหมื่นล้านทุกมุม ครั้งแรก! l เคหสถานบานปลาย l One Playground](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_J4_nw8c64o/mqdefault.jpg)
Praise be to God who uses the weak to shame the strong
I found this to be a tremendously enlightening discourse. Many thanks for sharing this! God bless you.
One of the best aspects of this film is the depiction of human frailty - torn between wanting to give witness to the Cistercian charism and spirituality and martyrdom for Faith - and the genuine fears and weakness of ordinary men.. the same challenge that Jesus faced in Gethsemani. A beautiful film with a simple and genuine message.
A wonderful film and insightful commentary...
Oh, my goodness! Great idea, Bishop thank you for that wonderful explanation
This was one of my favorite movies.
Classy as always.
Brilliant analysis of the movie Father. I really want to rent this movie now. Thank you so very much for your ministry; I think that you have helped more people come closer to God with your ministry than you may think. God bless you and keep you.
When I saw the movie I was puzzled by the title. The faith of the monks was so moving. What a work of art this film is.
I must admit my take on the title "Of Gods and Men", is that, taking the lead from Ps 82 "I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;", the reference is to the character of the men who chose to stay and face their death. Although all are created in the divine image, only some reveal it. Their staying reflected the character of the Son of the Most High. Therefore they are "Gods" and their assassins,"men".
to be really really honest with you or as some of us in aus say "to be upfront with you " i'm more than a bit suss about you which in a back handed way is a bit of a compliment .because being very skeptical in my search for truth and testing everything ,i find the potentially most dangerous people are the gifted ones at communication and ability to influence. you are one of those , so smooth ,and with that air of certainty and confidence. similar to Dick Cheney and Bibi Netanyahu. present themselves as your new best mate and hiding the agenda they're running [consciously and unconsciously]
NOW that being said i TOTALLY agree with your review on this incredible film . i'm a bit biased and easily influenced because of my love and respect for Michael Lonsdale .he bearly makes me cry again in this he's so good . so thanks Bishop .[but i'm still watching you and sifting very carefully what you say. also i'm an ex evangelical happy clapper .so not sure what class that now puts me in .
AND i have to mention my other favourite french actor in this movie, Olivier Rabourdin ,who when he played the crim gold smuggler ,opportunist ]brilliant brilliant performance ] in amazon gold [guyane] prayed this prayer out in the jungle before they all started digging ,which is either the most blasphemous prayer i've ever heard or the most honest [humble and therefore as t d jakes most eloquently puts it "tripped the switch of grace "]
it's in episode 3 of season 1 . by Olivier Rabourdin's character antoine serra .who's the boss of these scoundrels'
"lord bless the earth we're about to dig,reward us for our work.for we sinners live in mud.we are made of mud .our prayers rise up to you.
the gold we find belongs to you.
it will return to you
but for the time it will be in our hands [till somebody tries to pinch it ]
we thank you
Amen"
Very good film, I'm glad you brought my attention to it
I saw this movie. Stunningly beautiful.
"What is most essential, most determining in the image of the cross is the necessity of freely and voluntarily accepting it and taking it up. Christ freely, voluntarily took upon Himself the sins of the world, and raised them up on the cross, and thereby redeemed them and defeated hell and death. To accept the endeavor and the responsibility voluntarily, to freely crucify your sins -- that is the meaning of the cross, when we speak of bearing it on our human paths. Freedom is the inseparable sister of responsibility. The cross is this freely accepted responsibility, clear-sighted and sober. The free path of Golgotha -- that is the true imitation of Christ." - Mother Maria Skobtsova, Martyr of World War II
I really look forward to see this movie... I hope it comes out soon on DVD.
A fine review of the best film I have ever seen.
I agree. Excellent review! I saw this DVD at blockbusters and am hoping to remember to take it out and watch it next time. I looks exciting! even if it is a very quiet movie.
Thank you.
God bless you and your work Fr Barron. I'm a new subscriber of your channel.
Haven't seen that film, will now.
It is also important to note that this film calls us to recognize the "Bully Boys" in our own Church as well. While it is a film that profoundly calls out those despotic and tyrannical forces found in the geopolitical conflicts of today and in our last century, also in question are those wielding the status of their hierarchical positions to intimidate and ultimately silence the progressive movements in the Church.
Surely, one may just as well call those who in the name of 'progress' (an essentially meaningless word in that context) try to change the meaning of the word of their god as it is found in their bible, in favour of men rather than their god. It has certainly happened in the Anglican Church, where priests have been cancelled by 'those wielding the status of their hierarchical positions to intimidate and ultimately silence' and cancel those who resist the more egregious 'progressive' movements in that church.
@BeingItself I don't know how you drew the conclusion from this video that I think God is "a meddling knob twister!" I mean: no idea. And God's providence is not at odds with God's nature as the ground of being, just the contrary. As far as "wooly theology" goes, friend, I would remove the plank in my own eye if I were you!
@tfrenn thanks for the input, I appreciate it; yet "Be Not Afraid" from Pope JP2 seems like a better approach for us, more in line with the Christian Spirit.
@BeingItself Well, you're just sayin' wrong, friend. The ground of being is the criterion of good and evil. In that sense he is said, quite correctly, to judge wickedness. And though he doesn't speak in the ordinary way, he speaks constantly through the intelligibility of the world that he has made.
Outstanding. Have you made a video about the 80s move, "The Mission"?
Erratum: movie. P.S. How 'bout "Theresa of Calcutta"?
No comparison, I'd say. 'The Mission' for all its beauty is shallow/flashy, with an entirely different ethic, in that the monk adopts warrior's solution to their problem.
I have not watched the movie yet but I have thought the title may have pertained to Christ saying "ye are gods" in the sense that we are the dwelling place of God Himself. Thus, you have extraordinary men (the gods, i.e. monks) and you have ordinary men guided or even misguided by the violence around them.
@wordonfirevideo
OK. Can the ground of being digest food? Thinking is something physical systems do. Is the ground of being a physical system?
@BeingItself The ground of being is the unconditioned act of existence. This entails that it is in possession of all ontological perfection. So of course the ground of being can think. Friend, you're the one who is experiencing the cognitive dissonance here.
@BeingItself Can you fully describe: The beauty of a rainbow? (better yet of a double rainbow?) The smile of a baby? The smell of a fragant flower? The first kiss from the person you loved? The beauty of a sunset or sunrise? The love you receive from you Mother or Father? etc, etc, etc. If you ever can do that... you might, just might be able to fully describe or understand God!!!! Blessing to you!!!
@wordonfirevideo
Wait. What? Is that quotation from Psalms God speaking or is it not?
@wimsweden I think these are very good questions,but how could anyone answer them? I suppose you could start from a Platonic, Aristotelian, Augustinian, Thomist, Spinozist, or Existential point of view, but any answer would be a mere hypothesis. "Now we see but through a glass darkly."
@BeingItself Can you full describe: The beauty of a rainbow? (better yet of a double rainbow?) The smile of a baby? The smell of a fragant flower? The first kiss from the person you loved? The beauty of a sunset or sunrise? The love you receive from you Mother or Father? etc, etc, etc. If you ever can do that... you might, just might be able to fully describe or understand God!!!! Blessing to you!!!
@wimsweden Everyone gets their due, not just the unjust. But helping out with RCIA and dozens of converts to Catholicism, as well as a long life as a Catholic, I have yet to hear of any1 believing in God for the sake of feeling like the bad guys get theirs. If you are even close to the Christian spirit, seeing the sin within oneself quickly cures you of the desire for vengeance.
@BeingItself Oy vey! Have you ever heard of poetry, metaphor, symbol?
@BeingItself --Thank you for defending life. I thought you would answer in the affirmative since you equate exorcism with the 'abuse of the mentally ill.' I'm not sure that I follow since I expect you to quote some number (fictious or otherwise) that points to the number of 'deaths' resulting from an exorcism.
But remember the monks had the opportunity to leave. If they left they could've served the world as keepers of God's word. By leaving with the terrorists they were saying we are not slaves to this heartless planet where the powerful assert themselves. In giving their lives totally to God do they ascend to complete divinity. Which is what makes the one monk who stayed and did survive precarious. Most movies which challenge faith like Scorsese's, "Silence" present that internal struggle between our residency as humans and our desire to know God.
@12aug96 How many Muslims were killed by Christians for reasons of their faith in the twentieth century? You might think of the Iraq and Afghan wars as tragedies, but those who died in them were not martyrs.
@tfrenn last I heard of Mr. Martin, he was not a priest anymore; therefore his opinions may be a little biased.
@wordonfirevideo "the intelligibility of the world"
And yet our statisticians fail to find this connection. O well, they can only forecast the weather for three days, and with very limited certainty, so... But there's still a long way from this in my view hypothetical intelligibility to commands like "do this" and "don't do that", so I think BeingItself has a point.
@wordonfirevideo
Of course. Thank you for acknowledging that the passage you quoted is not really God speaking.
@TheMenghi1
That question comes out of left field. The answer is no.
Where men can course, bully, swing swords that flows the blood, and kills the simple man. It is the spirits that move, the true spirits of ages its as true now as ever and ever more. It is the spirit that corrects that knows faded footprints.
@yankeesuperstar In 1964, Pope Paul VI released Father Martin from the vows of Poverty and Obedience in the Jesuit Order, but confirmed his vow of Celibacy. Pope Paul instructed Father Martin to report directly to the reigning Holy Father whoever he may be, or to some member of the papal Curia the reigning Pope designates. Because he is not affiliated with any diocese, Father does not wear clerical clothes in public. He celebrates Holy Mass daily.
May I note that it is not certain that the French trappists where killed by muslim extremists... there are good reasons to believe the army needed to get rid of them. The movie leaves room for that interpretation too. The biggest 'bully' in the movie seems to be the general who's fighting the extremists. This of course doesn't contradict Fr. Barron's excellent analysis of the Psalm words, I only wish to add 'corrupt governments' to the gang of false gods, along with the 'crazy fundamentalists'.
Father, I see that you give reviews on movies and books, I would like you opinion on the Catholic author, Malichi Martin, who wrote "The Jesuits" and "Windswept House". According to him the Church is just about finished. Any comments ?
@wimsweden the motivation of a true Christian faith is not revenge.
Who else is here from there theology class
The 20th Century was the deadliest century for everyone, let alone Christians. Great film though.
@EspressoFan4Life
I only know him from these vids and comments, and that is enough to see his inconsistencies. Not only that, but I also find his conduct highly immoral. For example, he endorses the belief in demons and the practice of exorcism. Such beliefs and idiotic rituals cause the death and suffering of many innocent people, usually the mentally ill.
My religion teacher makes our homework based on what you say about the movies we watch in class and it's very annoying
Grow up.
Prof Carpenter?
@wordonfirevideo
Who said anything about nonsense. I'm not talking about audible speech. Is the psalmist communicating Gods thoughts or whatever? If so, then then your prior concept of God as "the ground of being" is false. The "ground of being" cannot think.
I realize me pointing out your inconsistent conceptions of God is causing you some uncomfortable cognitive dissonance. My advice? Don't preach contradictory conceptions of God.
@SIPTAR12 Hi, SIPTAR12. Billybagbom here. Do my eyes deceive me, or are you taking a stand here for Christians? My last encounter with you was not quite so beneficent, as I recall. (I could be wrong, of course. We Christians have to add that obligatory caveat.)
@BeingItself Again: oy vey! Have you ever used the expression, "the voice of my conscience?" It's an image, a metaphor, but that doesn't make the communication of your conscience any less "real." There is not a binary option between straightforward univocal language and nonsense!
@wordonfirevideo
Re-watch your own video. You read from Psalms, in which God speaks and passes judgement. That is a naive anthropomorphic conception of God. Hardly the "ground of being" concept you have endorsed elsewhere.
Strive for a little consistency. Just sayin'.
no sir 3000000 Catholics were the greatest martyr of all time. if you ad different denominations and heretics sects members, than you are right.
@wordonfirevideo Oh, so the monks were killed because of their faith in the prophet Isá (pbuh)
and Bush invaded Iraq to free the world from WMDs? Yea right!
Nowadays it's always about the power, money and pleasure of the Puppet Masters.
This movie only increased my support for Donald Trump's policies.
Chinese whispers, smoke and mirrors, pageantry and pompous display, gilded halls and sumptuous robes, false humility and pious affectation...when he comes, you'll be among the first to feel the fire
So Christ-like of you…
@@BishopBarron nobody knows what Christ is like