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Just a bit of trivia each. 50 cal machine was loaded with 27 feet of belted ammo so when you hear someone say I gave him all 9 yards they are referring to the gunners in the planes. Meaning the gunner pushed the trigger and didn't stop till he was empty. That's where that saying came from
French gun men ■.■ salute. I enjoy halo warthog, and snoopy ace, and finally hiemerdinger. 1st ability. Now I wanna see drop auto guns. If hiemerdinger and ziggy and korkie where all in one vehicle. Image the true obliteration.
Thanks! I also thought that was some pretty interesting footage. Our partners from the now defunct Aerocinema had full access to the Convair video vault. I do not recall seeing it before. Stay tuned for part 2 🙂
Im amazed at how technical and complex those planes were to fly. I am pretty mechanically inclined and listening to the captain guide the new pilot through the systems and settings boggled my mind. I just dont see how anyone became proficient at flying them. Wow, so much to remember and monitor.
In that era the aircraft were sophisticated for their time with mostly electromechanical systems and especially in the bombers there were so many systems to test, check and monitor in an exact sequence even before starting an engine. Those were the days of real flying of men, machinery and muscle. Unlike today where aircraft are computer dominant and the aircraft almost fly themselves.
My grandfather was in a B-17 ball turret over Germany. I wouldn't even want to be stuck in that little turret under ANY circumstances, let alone during combat. Just being hung from the belly of a plane all by yourself is crazy without adding flak, AA, and the Luftwaffe. I've been studying WW2 for decades and I've been aboard B17s myself - but I _still_ can't fully imagine how intense it must have been up there above Germany. It wasn't too fun on the other end either though. My grandmother was in Berlin and she had it even worse. I don't know how she survived the entire war there.
Ball turret gunners had the highest survivability rate of anyone on a B17 or a B24, contrary to all the myths over the years it was actually the safest place to be, and despite what people believe the gunner wasn't even in the turret during most of the mission, for obvious safety reasons they weren't in it during take off and landing and didn't get in it until they approached enemy territory and got back out after leaving, they weren't stuck in the turret for a full 7 or 8 hours, they actually spent more time out of it than in it.
Thanks for sharing. At least your grandfather survived . Lucky for him, he didn't have to fight during the brunt of it btwn '42-'43, as my grandfather did. Even though he survived over 25 missions, "they" refused to send him home to.his wife and newborn... they were made EXPENDABLE. Just bodies the govt brainwashed to believe their only priority was fighting 'til Hitler, the enemy, surrendered.. tragic, travesty, utterly ridiculous how it screwed up future families of America and allowed the enemy, spiritually and physically, to permeate within our nation since, which is why WE THE PEOPLE are having trouble GOVERNING, as WE shud be.
@dukecraig2402 true, yet it wasn't as important as sending the boys home to their wife n kids when they had already served out their fair share. But Nooo. The powers that be had to up the Annie and sacrifice/donate more lives
Incredible attack footage at 1:35 of Me-163 rocket fighters on a combat box formation of B-17s! Grandpa piloted the Flying Fortress, and was very confident against fighter attacks in the G variant, if his wingmen kept the formation tight. The speed of new jet and rocket fighters gave the enemy a huge advantage, and grandpa faced the Me-262 in the German skies. He said they passed him like he was standing still, when he had all four of his throttles "to the firewall." He knew they only had fuel for one pass, maybe two, and that the Reich's production facilities and fuel supplies were demolished from aerial bombardment. Soon he would be coming home to grandma. Many didn't...
Like another person in the comments, I recognized the flight instructor in Part 2, but couldn't place him. I'd just seen him last week in a western with Jimmy Stewart, so I searched through my movies and found him. He's Arthur Kennedy. Been in a lot of movies. So I looked up his bio and yep, he was in the USAAF during WWII making aviation training films. Interesting tidbit of info there. Thanks for posting, I enjoyed both parts.
Yep, Arthur Kennedy, Bend of The River is the western he was in with Jimmy Stewart, he also played Jackson Bentley in the movie Lawrence of Arabia, Bentley was a character based on the famous newsreel narrator Lowell Thomas, before narrating news reels he was the man who made T.E. Lawrence world famous and coined the name Lawrence of Arabia in his newspaper articles he'd written about Lawrence when he spent time with him in the Arabian desert.
@@dukecraig2402 they were also in The Man From Laramie together, that was the one that jogged my memory. I like all those old movies, but especially westerns.
Funny my uncle Alan was some one who fitted the defensive armermerments on the b24 he served in all theaters he still alive and turning 101 this October! He may even have been the one to put the machine guns in your uncles b24!
Wow you must have been proud of him. He was a very brave man to have had that job. I can't imagine what went thru those men's minds when going on their missions.
@@georgeormerod2531 Contrary to the popular myths that've erroneously been spread around for years ball turret gunners had the highest survivability rate of anyone on a B17 or B24 crew. Also despite the often heard horror stories including the one written by Andy Rooney for Stars and Stripes magazine during the war there was never a ball turret gunner who was ground into hamburger during a wheels up emergency landing, it never happened. Ball turret gunners weren't even in the turrets during take off's and landing's for obvious safety reasons nor where they in them during most of the mission, they wouldn't get into them until approaching known enemy area's or with the sighting of enemy fighter's. The ball turrets were stowed in a rear facing position with the guns facing rearward in the horizontal position, when the gunner went to enter the turret there was a set of controls inside the fuselage he'd use to rotate the guns straight down, this brought the hatch to the top where the gunner could open it and climb inside, after getting in and closing the hatch he switched the controls to internal, disconnected his "walk around" oxygen bottle and hooked up to the turrets oxygen supply, and then switched on the guns and charged them. The sight was a Sperry lead computing gun sight like the upper turret had, only the waist gunners had the 3 ring iron sight along with several other iron sights used in different variant's. Should the electrical system be shot out preventing the gunner from being able to rotate the guns straight down positioning the hatch upward so he could climb out another crewman in the fuselage could hand crank it into that position. The ball turret on the B17 did not retract into the fuselage as some people believe, only the B24 did that for clearance purposes during take off and landing, it also wasn't necessary for it to retract into the fuselage for the gunner to get in and out as some people believe, in the case of the B24 the gunner didn't get into it until it was extended after take off and got out before it was retracted for landing, that's why it's a myth that the gunner was stuck in it if it couldn't be retracted from battle damage, and as mentioned they didn't extend or retract in the case of the B17 anyways. Go to the channel WWII US Bombers for videos that cover the ball turret and it's operation in detail, it's the best channel for anything and everything about US bombers during WW2 and dispells quite a few of the common myths about them, along with presenting some very interesting facts like the computer augmented remote control defensive guns of the B29 giving it a kill to loss ratio against enemy fighter's of 11 to 1, that's higher than the P51's 10.2 to 1 kill to loss ratio.
A large reason for the loss of so many RAF night bombers was because the Luftwaffe night pilots quickly learned that while most RAF bombers had 2 to 4 gun turrets at nose, dorsal and tail positions there was nothing underneath the aircraft. So the night fighter pilots would attack from underneath and the side aiming at the wing roots. The last B-36 to fly landed at Wright-Patterson AFB, taxied into the new USAF museum, was safed for long term inside storage and the building finished around it.
@@achimelale9974 I know that just do have access to my historical library right now because in the midst of setting everything back up afterwards. The name would not come to mind when I made that comment.
My Grandfather was tail gunner in a Wellington bomber right at the start of the war. After an initial couple of raids over Germany in daylight, the losses were so great, the RAF switched to night bombing. He went for night vision tests and was found to be night blind, so was pulled out of the planes and sent to guard PoWs that were starting to come in from the Battle of the Atlantic. Otherwise,.he qould.not have survived the war.
In WWII the 50 caliber ammunition belts were 27 feet long. When a German fighter came in, the US gunner would sometimes fire the entire belt. It was called giving them "The Whole Nine Yards!"
My dad was a Waist Gunner on the B24 for 8th Air Force 2nd Division 392 Bomber Group 577th Squadron. Im so proud my father was part of the best generation of men. If you met him, you would think the same way.
The U.S. B-17 with .50 caliber weapons was getting its clocked clean by German fighters using 20 mm Ammo. That to this day is one of the heaviest criticisms of the U.S. Army Aircorps. Even my father who flew B-17's complained about it. To this day it reminds me of the oxymoronic term Military Intelligence. But my hat tips to all the men that served on those bombers. They did the best they could with what they had. Godspeed to all.
I thought the same thing about the Brits using 303. Turns out a target was under the pip for such a short time smaller caliber and a lot more of them made sense (1 - 20mm or 20 - 303 which is better?). Likewise having multiple ammo calibers (eg 303cal & 20mm) would have been a supply/logistics issue. And switching in mid-war would also have caused problems (wrong/insufficient ammo delivered for airplanes etc) not to mention difficulties retro-fitting 20mm cannons into 303cal gun wells. Also, the Germans didn’t demonstrate a noticeably superior effectiveness over the allies. The point is, it wasn’t a simple issue of 303/50 vs 20. God bless the bomber boys.
My Dad flew 52 missions on '17s in WW2. The first 25 with the 100thBomb Group, 8th AF out of Thorpe Abbots, England. He kept a diary of his time overseas and it is a sobering read of death at 20,000 feet
My grandfather was a waist gunner on the B17 over Germany. I don’t know what happened to him but he was not the same man after the war. We must remember the immeasurable debt we owe to these heroes.
@user-jc6wn3hw2u I bet. They had it the worst. It was more psychological. Not seeing a body detached syndrome caused ptsd, not yet named that then. Not everyone acted that way, although some were cruel and sadistic towards their kids and cheated on their wives, for their lives were forever changed. War took lives of those who should've been married to the women who.ended up with their buddies 🙄
the gunner turret was so interesting I wanted more of that don't have time to watch it all but some of that instructor stuff was pretty amazing. Thank you.
My frandfather and great uncles (his brothers) all came to the USA during WW2 specifically to join the US military to help save their own country as well as eventually raise my family that now has lived in the USA since. All 3 were air gunners. Two were shot down near Normandy, survived and made it to saftey afterwards, one saved another crewman, and the other was the only survivor on his plane. My grandfathers plane never even got hit the whole time he served on it. The uncles who were shot down were eventually treated and returned to the fight. They all made it through the war and the one who saved a crew member from his downed plane got some sort of medal. They all got some kind of recognition but I'm not sure to what degree. They have all since passed away though. I have a pair of opera binoculars that one of them got while they were in or near france at some point suring the war.
While going through my B52 Gunner training I got to get up close and personal with an old ball turret from a B17 they had at the school, but I was way too large to actually get in it.
Given the amount of poorly researched, shoddily presented, aircraft content on TH-cam (you know who you are Dark Skies), it's really refreshing to watch this stuff. Excellent video! Keep up the good work. 👍
Thank you 🙏 to spend a nice word for all TH-camrs, including ourselves, keep in mind that we are not HBO, or the BBC, and unless you are Mr. Beast, there are severe budget limitations for creators. Anyway, thank you so much for the kind words.
I found that the check list was long , beyond belief really & then go to war on top of that . Unbelievable they all deserve to be remembered for fighting for our freedom . Honour & Respect . Lest we forget .
Well done video and great topic. I've been intrigued with turrets on bombers since I was a kid, probably from watching the Twelve O'Clock High TV series in the 1960's. As knowledgeable as I consider myself on the topic, I was unaware that the B-36 had retractable and hidden turrets. I just "assumed" they had only a tail gun like the early B-52's. Fascinating.
The museum of the Air Force in Dayton has a great display on the first gun use from a plane. Including one of the generals saying accuracy was Much to low, to ever have success in war
My Uncle flew in the B17 as A tail gunner with a pair of 50 caliber machine guns , my Father was in the Islands fighting the Japanese. As a child born in 1950 . He was a Medic and went to Nagasaki after the Bomb was dropped and stayed in Japan till 1948 . History is a topic that- to the winners goes the history of the War .
I'm curious about the B-36 having a "hushed" sound and where you might have heard that. With 6 28 cylinder engines (168 cylinders total) one could hardly call it hushed. I distinctly remember reading a recollection of a crewman's son watching B-36's coming over base housing on short final. Even with the low power demands at that point in the flight, the noise was enough to shake the houses below.
Yes, but at 30k feet the sound was barely perceptible compared to that era's jet aircraft. Of course, if you followed the sound based on what your ears perceived, you would be several seconds *behind* the jets, too... it's a delicate balance. Trying to locate and lock on to aircraft at that speed and altitude was a vastly greater challenge than today...
My late grandfather was stationed in Italy with a heavy bomber group. He was a B-17 tail gunner. I wish he talked more about it but grandma said he was a lot different when he came back from the war. He wasn't the most approachable man. Lol.
My father-in-law was the right-waist gunner in B-17G Belligerent Beauty, 8th Air Force, 335th Squadron, 95th Bomb Group (Heavy) out of Horham, UK. Replacement crew.....he did the nose art. He's the last of the lads at 100 this past February. I believe the "Instructor" in the training film is Kevin McCarthy (original Invasion of the Body Snatchers). Met him in Modesto, CA at a horror movie convention in, I think, 2000 or 2001.
This was a great training film! Only wish there were some more B-17s hanging around at our local municipal airports that we could rent for a few hours.😉
Being someone who's the same age as most of the musical artist of the 80's, this is my favorite genre, and one of the best eras for great music, something not too many kids today appreciate. Many of them are still playing and can pack the crowd, whereas most of the bands today are a flash in the pan, here today, gone tomorrow.
On October 5th, 1914, the first aerial victory was won by Franz and Quenault, on their Voisin 3 push-propeller scouting biplan. It had a front observer basin in which Gabriel Voisin had just mounted an Hotchkiss machine gun.
(Ref pt. 6:50) Slight error here. During WWI the observer’s primary purpose was to watch for the enemy and when possible, fire on him. Generally, in a two seat airplane of the era only the observer had a gun, thus he was their defense. So if the observer was required to direct artillery how can he also see to their defense? He can’t, therefore the pilot directed artillery while flying the plane. How does the pilot fly as well as send/receive code? First, a number vs letter grid was used to designate targets (trench war, not a lot of movement). Then a simple code was used to indicate short/long and left/right of the target to dial-in the fire. This was carried out by the pilot while the observer kept their arses safe.
That was Really good. A lot of work flying one of those. I was fortunate enough to actually get inside but not sit in the Cockpit. Amazing how many gauges and analog at that on that Beast of a plane. I'm Sixty and it still scares the hell out of me thinking about being in one of those over Germany in WWII. RIP To all of those who did not return. You will Not be Forgotten. Thank you for this Excellent video. I forgot to mention my mom used too be part of the building of the B17's. I think she and other ladies were called... Rosie the Riveter.
I checked out the Ronald Reagan Library WW2 exhibit last year. They had a B-17 turret on display. Couldn't believe how small it was. You had to be a pretty small dude to get in that thing & sit in the fetal position. An old timer volunteer laughed at me when I asked him if ear protection was provided🤣Much respect to the WW2 generation.
@kennethcurtis1856 You misinterpreted the comment. Didn’t literally call the service men dudes. I’m referring to the size a person(dude) has to be to fit inside the turret. I also stated, “Much Respect” at the end of the comment. Where I’m from dude is used like “guy”, “bloke” or “man”
Less than 10% of B17 and Liberator losses in the European theatre were due to enemy fighters. 25% were due to aircraft malfunctions like engine failures or fires and the rest were due to flak. The weight of the ball turrets and ammunition badly limited the effective bomb load to less than half of that carried by Lancasters. Even a Mosquito could carry almost as much.
It wasn’t just the overall weight of the B17 that impacted its bomb load it was it’s capacity to do so ie, it had a very small bomb bay. There was no more room to carry extra bombs.
E cause it might be interesting for other viewers. If you read some of the comments, you can see that to some it is. By the way, part 2 is now online,as well.
I watched a video on how to start a b seventeen bomber because I couldn't start my one bomber on my simulator. Turns out step for step it was really accurate and I got my plane started. Just today randomly I came across this video. Now I know how to keep my plane in a low fuel set. I also know the fuel and r p m settings for the now as well, due different phases of the flight
*Let the Sunshine In...* Form what I have learned the Fokker D.VII was the best performing airplane coming out of WWII with its lightweight welded pipe frame and powerful mercedes engine, and yielding twin forward facing machine-guns.
The B17 was a good looking plane and certainly a fortress, but there was a price to pay for all those heavy guns, ammo and extra crew members - bomb capacity. The B17 carried 2 Tons of bombs compared to the 10 Tons in the more lightly armed Lancaster.
"Almost 'hushed' sound"?????? Those things used to fly over my house in San Antonio, TX in the mid-1950's and they would shake the fillings out of your teeth! Loudest plane I ever heard.
Many years ago i was told of a interesting story. A fellow that worked at my power plant a very old unit.He was in WW2 and he was trained as a gunner and apparently he and his buds shot up some sheep as they came back from a training flight. Well the army air corp wound up paying for the sheep . So thats what they got to eat . He stated the other flight crew's would have done some serious damage to them if they could find out who did it . Lucky they shipped out pretty quick lol. I have no idea if this is correct but it was interesting story
How many lived long enough to memorize all it took to just fly this warbird?? I had no idea what it took to fly. I love the 40's military training films...jokes included!! 😂
Nice job a video that actually stays on topic. Now im not sure if this is actually your production or if its a copy of another "history hit" type platform ( thats nothing against you if that's true) seems like 99 percent of the videos I watch about history are a repost. But nevertheless im still enjoying this video.
That is because these videos come from our partner who owned, among his other ventures, the defunct Aerocinema production company. These never “belonged” to the networks, but were licensed to them for a number of years. Phil had also access to several archives exclusively.
I think you guys forget about the Lockheed AC-130 gunship, dunno if it can drop "bombs" assume it can it drops some heavy explosive metal with a few turrets.
"Regular Helicopter 🚁" 48:00 Uhhh, what did the pilot say? I know helicopters were just about tested and refined enough to do a couple rescue missions near the end of the war with Japan near the Philippines. I'd be surprised if any of these pilots knew what a helicopter was at the beginning to middle of the war. The training video doesn't indicate anything about the date, but that sure has me scratching my head haha.
I've always been fascinated by gun turrets on aircraft, especially the top turret and ball turret on the B17 (there seems to be far less attention paid to the top turret in documentaries and historical programs). I'm fairly tall and broad-shouldered so, given my choice, I would rather be assigned to the top turret.
You could possibly be too large. My father started as a tail gunner in B17. He switched to radar because he got too large to fit in turret. 6' 3" 240lbs
If you look at up to date pictures of the Russian Bear bomber it looks like it has some kind of cannon or heavy machine gun in it's tail.I don't know if any of these aircraft have been attacked by fighters in the current Ukraine crisis .
I am convinced now that is a species we spend more time effort and money on making instruments of death for killing each other than any other endeavor ! am I close?
It appears you're correct. But without these machines we likely wouldn't be enjoying the freedom we now have. But any way you cut it, the purpose for all these machines can be depressing. Especially the older I get. I have the utmost respect for the men and women tasked with fighting with these aircraft.
@@jeebusk interesting comment. Remember that Einstein was against the war. Also it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that most educated people were against killing one another. So what's left? We are distinguished from animals because of our intellect correct? Now considering the world as we both see it how much intellect do you see this specially on TH-cam? Now you have the answer you're looking for. Looks like were screwed and we really are
@@giggiddy I also respect them for their brave sacrifice and to be honest their suffering. It should never have happened. But yeah when you get older you just see the stupidity in all of it more clearly.you can also see more clearly history really does repeat. Another war is coming only look at the technology that will be unleashed. I should really get off TH-cam… War here is just sensationalized entertainment. Something's wrong with that picture
I completely agree, but with one caveat. How do you suggest we stop or end tyranny without the use of force and the weapons needed to do so? Without such weapons of war I believe we would not have lived the lives we have. The only other option is to "fight" such battles in the court of public and judicial opinion, which may only work in a society much more highly evolved. I don't see that happening any time soon either. It's all quite depressing!
@@djsmith4789 agreed… we are destined to be destroyed and there's nothing we can do. Jealousy selfishness hatred war or just but a few things that will never go away. There's always been war and now look at our technology we've spent every waking moment designing better ways to kill. These fools don't even realize they're killing themselves along with all of us. And climate change is real I experienced it twice in one year catastrophic flooding and heat wave that killed 900 people. Just try to make peace with yourself because anyone that thinks we can get through this has not achieved wisdom or even looked upon history which by the way is still being written as the war intensifies in Ukraine… I believe this is going to blow up. There will probably be a huge cry for peace and everything will settle down and then a power not yet seen will be unleashed. I'm getting old I hope I don't see it. What about the kids today growing up with just climate change alone? Forget about all the other hatred killing and murder destruction and of course who's going to witness the last war. Stay safe my friend TH-cam will suck the life rate out of you… Try to find television that's not violent to much and I hope you have a hobby. That's what I do
It’s always baffled me how they could time the propellors with the firing of a machine gun. If it even slightly jumped time,the pilot would shoot his prop all to pcs.
It was a mechanical interrupter that only let the gun fire between the blades. Was very reliable system. There was an earlier 'system' that involved plates on the blades to deflect the bullets, and no interrupter.
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What did you mean by "With the exception of tail defense...."?
Just a bit of trivia each. 50 cal machine was loaded with 27 feet of belted ammo so when you hear someone say I gave him all 9 yards they are referring to the gunners in the planes. Meaning the gunner pushed the trigger and didn't stop till he was empty. That's where that saying came from
French gun men ■.■ salute. I enjoy halo warthog, and snoopy ace, and finally hiemerdinger. 1st ability.
Now I wanna see drop auto guns.
If hiemerdinger and ziggy and korkie where all in one vehicle. Image the true obliteration.
😊
First time I've ever seen the guns deployed on a B-36....Thanks for the video!
Thanks! I also thought that was some pretty interesting footage. Our partners from the now defunct Aerocinema had full access to the Convair video vault. I do not recall seeing it before.
Stay tuned for part 2 🙂
Same, never knew it was equipped with those, and here I thought myself to be a pretty big aircraft Nerd.
Gotta love those 40's instructual films. I feel like I could fly a B-17 after watching that now.
Im amazed at how technical and complex those planes were to fly. I am pretty mechanically inclined and listening to the captain guide the new pilot through the systems and settings boggled my mind. I just dont see how anyone became proficient at flying them. Wow, so much to remember and monitor.
and those guys were so young...
And to do all that in the middle of fierce combat.
In that era the aircraft were sophisticated for their time with mostly electromechanical systems and especially in the bombers there were so many systems to test, check and monitor in an exact sequence even before starting an engine. Those were the days of real flying of men, machinery and muscle. Unlike today where aircraft are computer dominant and the aircraft almost fly themselves.
Computers have really dumbed down people these days it’s nothing to fly like it used to be
It looks too complicated and it would be easy to make a mistake
especially if the instruments were faulty.
My grandfather was in a B-17 ball turret over Germany. I wouldn't even want to be stuck in that little turret under ANY circumstances, let alone during combat. Just being hung from the belly of a plane all by yourself is crazy without adding flak, AA, and the Luftwaffe. I've been studying WW2 for decades and I've been aboard B17s myself - but I _still_ can't fully imagine how intense it must have been up there above Germany.
It wasn't too fun on the other end either though. My grandmother was in Berlin and she had it even worse. I don't know how she survived the entire war there.
Ball turret gunners had the highest survivability rate of anyone on a B17 or a B24, contrary to all the myths over the years it was actually the safest place to be, and despite what people believe the gunner wasn't even in the turret during most of the mission, for obvious safety reasons they weren't in it during take off and landing and didn't get in it until they approached enemy territory and got back out after leaving, they weren't stuck in the turret for a full 7 or 8 hours, they actually spent more time out of it than in it.
Goodness...God blesses for your entire family!
merci pour votre grand-père pour sont travail qui a permis de vivre libre sans nazi ,qui soit béni
Thanks for sharing. At least your grandfather survived . Lucky for him, he didn't have to fight during the brunt of it btwn '42-'43, as my grandfather did. Even though he survived over 25 missions, "they" refused to send him home to.his wife and newborn... they were made EXPENDABLE. Just bodies the govt brainwashed to believe their only priority was fighting 'til Hitler, the enemy, surrendered.. tragic, travesty, utterly ridiculous how it screwed up future families of America and allowed the enemy, spiritually and physically, to permeate within our nation since, which is why WE THE PEOPLE are having trouble GOVERNING, as WE shud be.
@dukecraig2402 true, yet it wasn't as important as sending the boys home to their wife n kids when they had already served out their fair share. But Nooo. The powers that be had to up the Annie and sacrifice/donate more lives
Consolidated B-24 never gets the respect it deserves
Because crews liked b17 more literally because of it being sturdy there once was a slash in the fucilage of one and got the crew back home
Flew MORE ops, at a higher TAS, with a heavier bombload FARTHER than a B17.
Incredible attack footage at 1:35 of Me-163 rocket fighters on a combat box formation of B-17s! Grandpa piloted the Flying Fortress, and was very confident against fighter attacks in the G variant, if his wingmen kept the formation tight. The speed of new jet and rocket fighters gave the enemy a huge advantage, and grandpa faced the Me-262 in the German skies. He said they passed him like he was standing still, when he had all four of his throttles "to the firewall." He knew they only had fuel for one pass, maybe two, and that the Reich's production facilities and fuel supplies were demolished from aerial bombardment. Soon he would be coming home to grandma. Many didn't...
Like another person in the comments, I recognized the flight instructor in Part 2, but couldn't place him. I'd just seen him last week in a western with Jimmy Stewart, so I searched through my movies and found him. He's Arthur Kennedy. Been in a lot of movies. So I looked up his bio and yep, he was in the USAAF during WWII making aviation training films. Interesting tidbit of info there. Thanks for posting, I enjoyed both parts.
👍🙏 Good catch, thank for doing the research, and for sharing it with everyone
Yep, Arthur Kennedy, Bend of The River is the western he was in with Jimmy Stewart, he also played Jackson Bentley in the movie Lawrence of Arabia, Bentley was a character based on the famous newsreel narrator Lowell Thomas, before narrating news reels he was the man who made T.E. Lawrence world famous and coined the name Lawrence of Arabia in his newspaper articles he'd written about Lawrence when he spent time with him in the Arabian desert.
Thanks for the information. Makes the show much better. 😎👍
@@dukecraig2402 they were also in The Man From Laramie together, that was the one that jogged my memory. I like all those old movies, but especially westerns.
@@OhWow1337 whatever. I was just pointing out a bit of trivia that might be interesting to some people.
"Through These Eyes"
The war diary of a B-17 radio/gunner.
I thoroughly enjoyed the ensuing series !!
My now gone little Uncle would have loved this video! He was a belly ball gunner in a B24J!
God Bless both of your family members. Thank you for their service to this beautiful country.
Apart from submarines, the ball turret gunner is the most terrifying job to me. Very brave men.
Funny my uncle Alan was some one who fitted the defensive armermerments on the b24 he served in all theaters he still alive and turning 101 this October! He may even have been the one to put the machine guns in your uncles b24!
Wow you must have been proud of him. He was a very brave man to have had that job. I can't imagine what went thru those men's minds when going on their missions.
@@georgeormerod2531
Contrary to the popular myths that've erroneously been spread around for years ball turret gunners had the highest survivability rate of anyone on a B17 or B24 crew.
Also despite the often heard horror stories including the one written by Andy Rooney for Stars and Stripes magazine during the war there was never a ball turret gunner who was ground into hamburger during a wheels up emergency landing, it never happened.
Ball turret gunners weren't even in the turrets during take off's and landing's for obvious safety reasons nor where they in them during most of the mission, they wouldn't get into them until approaching known enemy area's or with the sighting of enemy fighter's.
The ball turrets were stowed in a rear facing position with the guns facing rearward in the horizontal position, when the gunner went to enter the turret there was a set of controls inside the fuselage he'd use to rotate the guns straight down, this brought the hatch to the top where the gunner could open it and climb inside, after getting in and closing the hatch he switched the controls to internal, disconnected his "walk around" oxygen bottle and hooked up to the turrets oxygen supply, and then switched on the guns and charged them.
The sight was a Sperry lead computing gun sight like the upper turret had, only the waist gunners had the 3 ring iron sight along with several other iron sights used in different variant's.
Should the electrical system be shot out preventing the gunner from being able to rotate the guns straight down positioning the hatch upward so he could climb out another crewman in the fuselage could hand crank it into that position.
The ball turret on the B17 did not retract into the fuselage as some people believe, only the B24 did that for clearance purposes during take off and landing, it also wasn't necessary for it to retract into the fuselage for the gunner to get in and out as some people believe, in the case of the B24 the gunner didn't get into it until it was extended after take off and got out before it was retracted for landing, that's why it's a myth that the gunner was stuck in it if it couldn't be retracted from battle damage, and as mentioned they didn't extend or retract in the case of the B17 anyways.
Go to the channel WWII US Bombers for videos that cover the ball turret and it's operation in detail, it's the best channel for anything and everything about US bombers during WW2 and dispells quite a few of the common myths about them, along with presenting some very interesting facts like the computer augmented remote control defensive guns of the B29 giving it a kill to loss ratio against enemy fighter's of 11 to 1, that's higher than the P51's 10.2 to 1 kill to loss ratio.
A large reason for the loss of so many RAF night bombers was because the Luftwaffe night pilots quickly learned that while most RAF bombers had 2 to 4 gun turrets at nose, dorsal and tail positions there was nothing underneath the aircraft. So the night fighter pilots would attack from underneath and the side aiming at the wing roots.
The last B-36 to fly landed at Wright-Patterson AFB, taxied into the new USAF museum, was safed for long term inside storage and the building finished around it.
Interesting! 😎👍
"Schräge Musik"
@@achimelale9974 I know that just do have access to my historical library right now because in the midst of setting everything back up afterwards. The name would not come to mind when I made that comment.
My Grandfather was tail gunner in a Wellington bomber right at the start of the war. After an initial couple of raids over Germany in daylight, the losses were so great, the RAF switched to night bombing. He went for night vision tests and was found to be night blind, so was pulled out of the planes and sent to guard PoWs that were starting to come in from the Battle of the Atlantic. Otherwise,.he qould.not have survived the war.
In WWII the 50 caliber ammunition belts were 27 feet long. When a German fighter came in, the US gunner would sometimes fire the entire belt. It was called giving them "The Whole Nine Yards!"
@@matthewmusson3473 The phrase actually predates WWII by almost 90 years, though.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_whole_nine_yards
My dad was a Waist Gunner on the B24 for 8th Air Force 2nd Division 392 Bomber Group 577th Squadron. Im so proud my father was part of the best generation of men. If you met him, you would think the same way.
The U.S. B-17 with .50 caliber weapons was getting its clocked clean by German fighters using 20 mm Ammo. That to this day is one of the heaviest criticisms of the U.S. Army Aircorps. Even my father who flew B-17's complained about it. To this day it reminds me of the oxymoronic term Military Intelligence. But my hat tips to all the men that served on those bombers. They did the best they could with what they had. Godspeed to all.
I thought the same thing about the Brits using 303. Turns out a target was under the pip for such a short time smaller caliber and a lot more of them made sense (1 - 20mm or 20 - 303 which is better?). Likewise having multiple ammo calibers (eg 303cal & 20mm) would have been a supply/logistics issue. And switching in mid-war would also have caused problems (wrong/insufficient ammo delivered for airplanes etc) not to mention difficulties retro-fitting 20mm cannons into 303cal gun wells. Also, the Germans didn’t demonstrate a noticeably superior effectiveness over the allies. The point is, it wasn’t a simple issue of 303/50 vs 20. God bless the bomber boys.
My Dad flew 52 missions on '17s in WW2. The first 25 with the 100thBomb Group, 8th AF out of Thorpe Abbots, England. He kept a diary of his time overseas and it is a sobering read of death at 20,000 feet
Steve, Bless him.
My grandfather was a waist gunner on the B17 over Germany. I don’t know what happened to him but he was not the same man after the war. We must remember the immeasurable debt we owe to these heroes.
Thanks for sharing. There are good books that describe what it was like. Was he despondent towards you growing up?
The sacrifices those hero's made will be forgotten soon due to the woke agenda unfortunately
@@thedamneddice575 not if we can help it
@@bradmarkell12167 No, but he came back a troubled man. Short tempered, problems with alcohol and very hard on my dad.
@user-jc6wn3hw2u I bet. They had it the worst. It was more psychological. Not seeing a body detached syndrome caused ptsd, not yet named that then. Not everyone acted that way, although some were cruel and sadistic towards their kids and cheated on their wives, for their lives were forever changed. War took lives of those who should've been married to the women who.ended up with their buddies 🙄
the gunner turret was so interesting I wanted more of that don't have time to watch it all but some of that instructor stuff was pretty amazing. Thank you.
My frandfather and great uncles (his brothers) all came to the USA during WW2 specifically to join the US military to help save their own country as well as eventually raise my family that now has lived in the USA since. All 3 were air gunners. Two were shot down near Normandy, survived and made it to saftey afterwards, one saved another crewman, and the other was the only survivor on his plane. My grandfathers plane never even got hit the whole time he served on it. The uncles who were shot down were eventually treated and returned to the fight. They all made it through the war and the one who saved a crew member from his downed plane got some sort of medal. They all got some kind of recognition but I'm not sure to what degree. They have all since passed away though. I have a pair of opera binoculars that one of them got while they were in or near france at some point suring the war.
Why cant modern instructional videos be this good
Always amazed me how quickly we turned those flimsy first aircraft into deadly war machines.
While going through my B52 Gunner training I got to get up close and personal with an old ball turret from a B17 they had at the school, but I was way too large to actually get in it.
Well spoken.Very educational.Thank You
Given the amount of poorly researched, shoddily presented, aircraft content on TH-cam (you know who you are Dark Skies), it's really refreshing to watch this stuff. Excellent video! Keep up the good work. 👍
Thank you 🙏 to spend a nice word for all TH-camrs, including ourselves, keep in mind that we are not HBO, or the BBC, and unless you are Mr. Beast, there are severe budget limitations for creators.
Anyway, thank you so much for the kind words.
I found that the check list was long , beyond belief really & then go to war on top of that . Unbelievable they all deserve to be remembered for fighting for our freedom . Honour & Respect . Lest we forget .
Fantastic! Looks like real fun if not at war. Thanks! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ 😎👍
Well done video and great topic. I've been intrigued with turrets on bombers since I was a kid, probably from watching the Twelve O'Clock High TV series in the 1960's. As knowledgeable as I consider myself on the topic, I was unaware that the B-36 had retractable and hidden turrets. I just "assumed" they had only a tail gun like the early B-52's. Fascinating.
👍
They were removed from the B36 after a while, only the early variant's, maybe even just the first one, had the retractable turrets.
How fitting that the footage of the B-36 had an engine not turning.
Goodness that thing was a nightmare of reliability failures.
Dad was an airgunner in 223sq RAF. Flying Blenheims then Baltimores in the Western Desert.
The museum of the Air Force in Dayton has a great display on the first gun use from a plane. Including one of the generals saying accuracy was Much to low, to ever have success in war
My Uncle flew in the B17 as A tail gunner with a pair of 50 caliber machine guns , my Father was in the Islands fighting the Japanese. As a child born in 1950 . He was a Medic and went to Nagasaki after the Bomb was dropped and stayed in Japan till 1948 .
History is a topic that- to the winners goes the history of the War .
I'm curious about the B-36 having a "hushed" sound and where you might have heard that.
With 6 28 cylinder engines (168 cylinders total) one could hardly call it hushed. I distinctly remember reading a recollection of a crewman's son watching B-36's coming over base housing on short final. Even with the low power demands at that point in the flight, the noise was enough to shake the houses below.
Yes, but at 30k feet the sound was barely perceptible compared to that era's jet aircraft. Of course, if you followed the sound based on what your ears perceived, you would be several seconds *behind* the jets, too... it's a delicate balance. Trying to locate and lock on to aircraft at that speed and altitude was a vastly greater challenge than today...
My late grandfather was stationed in Italy with a heavy bomber group.
He was a B-17 tail gunner.
I wish he talked more about it but grandma said he was a lot different when he came back from the war.
He wasn't the most approachable man. Lol.
My father was a turret gunner in a TBM Avenger in the Pacific.
That video made with actors I recocnized from ww2 movies was perfect instruction tool and a pleasure to see after all these years THANKS
My father-in-law was the right-waist gunner in B-17G Belligerent Beauty, 8th Air Force, 335th Squadron, 95th Bomb Group (Heavy) out of Horham, UK. Replacement crew.....he did the nose art. He's the last of the lads at 100 this past February.
I believe the "Instructor" in the training film is Kevin McCarthy (original Invasion of the Body Snatchers). Met him in Modesto, CA at a horror movie convention in, I think, 2000 or 2001.
B-29's losses were almost 2-1 mechanical/fires/landing and takeoff accidents vs enemy fire. The turrets were quite good.
This was a great training film! Only wish there were some more B-17s hanging around at our local municipal airports that we could rent for a few hours.😉
If I was was on a crew for the b17 I just wouldn't want to sit on the other side of the target the brits had painted on it.
My boss at Lycoming in Stratford was a belly gunner in the 8th. Fred was a pretty small guy and I guess that is why he ended up in that little bubble.
Bless him
Just to think the wright brothers made the first flight only 40 years before?? Mind blowing 🤯
a person could read about the wright flyer in the newspaper as a kid and watch the moon landing on color tv in their retirement community....
Being someone who's the same age as most of the musical artist of the 80's, this is my favorite genre, and one of the best eras for great music, something not too many kids today appreciate.
Many of them are still playing and can pack the crowd, whereas most of the bands today are a flash in the pan, here today, gone tomorrow.
Very informative. Thanks for this fascinating video
Our pleasure!
On October 5th, 1914, the first aerial victory was won by Franz and Quenault, on their Voisin 3 push-propeller scouting biplan. It had a front observer basin in which Gabriel Voisin had just mounted an Hotchkiss machine gun.
I love the B36 popup turrets, 20mm too. 50 cal was borderline inadequate for WWII bombers, let alone a cold war bomber.
(Ref pt. 6:50) Slight error here. During WWI the observer’s primary purpose was to watch for the enemy and when possible, fire on him. Generally, in a two seat airplane of the era only the observer had a gun, thus he was their defense. So if the observer was required to direct artillery how can he also see to their defense? He can’t, therefore the pilot directed artillery while flying the plane. How does the pilot fly as well as send/receive code? First, a number vs letter grid was used to designate targets (trench war, not a lot of movement). Then a simple code was used to indicate short/long and left/right of the target to dial-in the fire. This was carried out by the pilot while the observer kept their arses safe.
That was Really good. A lot of work flying one of those. I was fortunate enough to actually get inside but not sit in the Cockpit. Amazing how many gauges and analog at that on that Beast of a plane. I'm Sixty and it still scares the hell out of me thinking about being in one of those over Germany in WWII.
RIP To all of those who did not return. You will Not be Forgotten.
Thank you for this Excellent video.
I forgot to mention my mom used too be part of the building of the B17's.
I think she and other ladies were called...
Rosie the Riveter.
Thank you! Awesome turrent content!
My hat goes off to the Test Pilots who wrote the the standard operating procedure. Aussie Jeff Moore
Excellent video. Lost opportunity with the turreted fighter. 264 Sqn love their Defiants.
My grandfather was a naval air gunner in WW1. Perry M. Cummings, he died in 1975 when I was 5. I have always wondered which plane he flew in.
Bless him
I love these 1940's training films.
Love that your thumbnail is an edit of a photo from a display at my local air museum, The Yorkshire Air museum, Elvington
Correct, It is in fact credited in the description. It is not exactly the same, as we colorized several parts.
Awesome, it's a brilliant aviation museum.
Excellent instructions, knowledge based ❤
Those bomber guys had some guts . Heroes the lot of them
I checked out the Ronald Reagan Library WW2 exhibit last year. They had a B-17 turret on display. Couldn't believe how small it was. You had to be a pretty small dude to get in that thing & sit in the fetal position. An old timer volunteer laughed at me when I asked him if ear protection was provided🤣Much respect to the WW2 generation.
Those heroes were not 'dudes'. Show respect.
@kennethcurtis1856 You misinterpreted the comment. Didn’t literally call the service men dudes. I’m referring to the size a person(dude) has to be to fit inside the turret. I also stated, “Much Respect” at the end of the comment. Where I’m from dude is used like “guy”, “bloke” or “man”
The Lewis gun wasnt available until 1911 on wards, production started 1913.
I learned the turrets were a British invention today, thank you.
I love it 6 truing an 4 burning great stuff
Less than 10% of B17 and Liberator losses in the European theatre were due to enemy fighters. 25% were due to aircraft malfunctions like engine failures or fires and the rest were due to flak. The weight of the ball turrets and ammunition badly limited the effective bomb load to less than half of that carried by Lancasters. Even a Mosquito could carry almost as much.
It wasn’t just the overall weight of the B17 that impacted its bomb load it was it’s capacity to do so ie, it had a very small bomb bay. There was no more room to carry extra bombs.
End of Part 1 at 28:05 - What follows is instructional video for flying the B-17. Why?
E cause it might be interesting for other viewers. If you read some of the comments, you can see that to some it is. By the way, part 2 is now online,as well.
Very goud DOCUMENTAIRE Man, MERCI BEAUCOUP..!!!🌒
👍🙏
I watched a video on how to start a b seventeen bomber because I couldn't start my one bomber on my simulator. Turns out step for step it was really accurate and I got my plane started. Just today randomly I came across this video. Now I know how to keep my plane in a low fuel set. I also know the fuel and r p m settings for the now as well, due different phases of the flight
Fantastic video thank you. 👍🏻
Thank you too!
My great uncle tony was a tail gunner 42 and some of 43 he was injured several tims from shrapnel in a b17 d or e model
A Stuka would have been unpleasant. The gunner can’t see the ground during the attack and is thrown forwards in his seat under the high-g pullout.
*Let the Sunshine In...*
Form what I have learned the Fokker D.VII was the best performing airplane coming out of WWII with its lightweight welded pipe frame and powerful mercedes engine, and yielding twin forward facing machine-guns.
Amazing film, Bee
The B17 was a good looking plane and certainly a fortress, but there was a price to pay for all those heavy guns, ammo and extra crew members - bomb capacity. The B17 carried 2 Tons of bombs compared to the 10 Tons in the more lightly armed Lancaster.
"Almost 'hushed' sound"?????? Those things used to fly over my house in San Antonio, TX in the mid-1950's and they would shake the fillings out of your teeth! Loudest plane I ever heard.
The second half of the video was the most entertaining.
Good stuff.💛
Glad you enjoyed
100 mph takeoff with that big of a plane? That’s nuts
B-36 was a true peace maker. It was never needed in warfare. Walk softly and carry a B-36.
Many years ago i was told of a interesting story. A fellow that worked at my power plant a very old unit.He was in WW2 and he was trained as a gunner and apparently he and his buds shot up some sheep as they came back from a training flight. Well the army air corp wound up paying for the sheep . So thats what they got to eat . He stated the other flight crew's would have done some serious damage to them if they could find out who did it . Lucky they shipped out pretty quick lol. I have no idea if this is correct but it was interesting story
7:10. Wrong. It’s nickname was the Bristol Fighter. Because it was actually a bomber, but it had the performance of a fighter.
Good stuff, pedant point Blenheim is pronounced Blen.emm
Youre at 999k views. I'm hoping me watching this throws you over the line to a million, and I gain some extra knowledge.
Video thumbnail would make a badass poster!
Very interesting indeed.
I always thought the B-52 was the king of bombers maybe not the biggest but definitely the Best.
How many lived long enough to memorize all it took to just fly this warbird?? I had no idea what it took to fly. I love the 40's military training films...jokes included!! 😂
Thank you, bravo
Wow good teacher .. Top
Nice job a video that actually stays on topic. Now im not sure if this is actually your production or if its a copy of another "history hit" type platform ( thats nothing against you if that's true) seems like 99 percent of the videos I watch about history are a repost. But nevertheless im still enjoying this video.
That is because these videos come from our partner who owned, among his other ventures, the defunct Aerocinema production company. These never “belonged” to the networks, but were licensed to them for a number of years. Phil had also access to several archives exclusively.
Awsome curlymo
WW1 German pilots and observer/gunners had electrically heated flight suits!
We're with yu' David..
29:15 “It’s time to see how far you can go with her and still stay friends” hahahaha damn it must of been so nice to live back in those days…
This is something that was in my mind even as a child
The added footstep sound effects! 😂🤣
So military men called that B36 the flying "stick"?? That was lost in translation I'm thinking.
Compared to large modern jet aircraft, the B-17 was a handful for the pilot.
A friend of mine dad was a gunner in a bomber during The Korea War
I think you guys forget about the Lockheed AC-130 gunship, dunno if it can drop "bombs" assume it can it drops some heavy explosive metal with a few turrets.
I have heard it referred as "The Flying Cigar"!
29:16 "how far you can go with her and still stay friends...." quite a risque thing to say in those days!
"Regular Helicopter 🚁" 48:00
Uhhh, what did the pilot say? I know helicopters were just about tested and refined enough to do a couple rescue missions near the end of the war with Japan near the Philippines. I'd be surprised if any of these pilots knew what a helicopter was at the beginning to middle of the war. The training video doesn't indicate anything about the date, but that sure has me scratching my head haha.
I've always been fascinated by gun turrets on aircraft, especially the top turret and ball turret on the B17 (there seems to be far less attention paid to the top turret in documentaries and historical programs). I'm fairly tall and broad-shouldered so, given my choice, I would rather be assigned to the top turret.
You could possibly be too large. My father started as a tail gunner in B17. He switched to radar because he got too large to fit in turret. 6' 3" 240lbs
If you look at up to date pictures of the Russian Bear bomber it looks like it has some kind of cannon or heavy machine gun in it's tail.I don't know if any of these aircraft have been attacked by fighters in the current Ukraine crisis .
I am convinced now that is a species we spend more time effort and money on making instruments of death for killing each other than any other endeavor ! am I close?
It appears you're correct. But without these machines we likely wouldn't be enjoying the freedom we now have. But any way you cut it, the purpose for all these machines can be depressing. Especially the older I get. I have the utmost respect for the men and women tasked with fighting with these aircraft.
@@jeebusk interesting comment. Remember that Einstein was against the war. Also it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that most educated people were against killing one another. So what's left? We are distinguished from animals because of our intellect correct? Now considering the world as we both see it how much intellect do you see this specially on TH-cam? Now you have the answer you're looking for. Looks like were screwed and we really are
@@giggiddy I also respect them for their brave sacrifice and to be honest their suffering. It should never have happened. But yeah when you get older you just see the stupidity in all of it more clearly.you can also see more clearly history really does repeat. Another war is coming only look at the technology that will be unleashed. I should really get off TH-cam… War here is just sensationalized entertainment. Something's wrong with that picture
I completely agree, but with one caveat. How do you suggest we stop or end tyranny without the use of force and the weapons needed to do so? Without such weapons of war I believe we would not have lived the lives we have. The only other option is to "fight" such battles in the court of public and judicial opinion, which may only work in a society much more highly evolved. I don't see that happening any time soon either.
It's all quite depressing!
@@djsmith4789 agreed… we are destined to be destroyed and there's nothing we can do. Jealousy selfishness hatred war or just but a few things that will never go away. There's always been war and now look at our technology we've spent every waking moment designing better ways to kill. These fools don't even realize they're killing themselves along with all of us. And climate change is real I experienced it twice in one year catastrophic flooding and heat wave that killed 900 people. Just try to make peace with yourself because anyone that thinks we can get through this has not achieved wisdom or even looked upon history which by the way is still being written as the war intensifies in Ukraine… I believe this is going to blow up. There will probably be a huge cry for peace and everything will settle down and then a power not yet seen will be unleashed. I'm getting old I hope I don't see it. What about the kids today growing up with just climate change alone? Forget about all the other hatred killing and murder destruction and of course who's going to witness the last war. Stay safe my friend TH-cam will suck the life rate out of you… Try to find television that's not violent to much and I hope you have a hobby. That's what I do
It’s always baffled me how they could time the propellors with the firing of a machine gun.
If it even slightly jumped time,the pilot would shoot his prop all to pcs.
It was a mechanical interrupter that only let the gun fire between the blades. Was very reliable system. There was an earlier 'system' that involved plates on the blades to deflect the bullets, and no interrupter.