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Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 WVa USA is behind you.... Safe and Strong is what takes to over come these Invader's from your Sovereign Country 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦....... Love you all...
in vietnam war the b 52 gunners destroys 2 mig 21 zero b52 had been destroys by mig why you didnt say that? in war coréa the oldIies but goodies b 29 desrtoys 30 mig 15 fifty fifty with the losses why you d on t say that? the strategics bombers were the greats winners of all comflits but you refused this thing
Our family had the humbled chance to meet a WWII B-17 side gunner who survived all 25 missions over Germany. Doug White, R.IP. Doug became a house builder in the Bay Area (Calif) after the war and eventually opened a Christmas tree farm in Pollock Pines. He and his wife kept all of the newspaper articled from the war as he flew these dangerous missions. My respect for all of their bravery. God bless all their souls.
Interesting and informative. Excellent photography job enabling viewers to better understand what/whom the orator was describing. Special thanks to veteran bomber crews/guest speakers sharing personal information/combat experiences making this documentary more authentic and possible. Fighting/perishing/surviving knowing certain death/debilitating wounds were often times possible. Yet still advanced forward regardless of the consequences. True grit style determination to succeed. A special shout out to the often forgotten air craft designers/engineers/assembly crafts personal.
It always amazes me just how far we have fallen in under a century. Most men back then were willing to die to protect others and what they loved back then. Now our governments are destroying our countries and were being invaded by what is blatant army. Yet very few are willing to do or even say anything. I look up to those men who were willing to die to save others. A kind of man we should all strive to be.
You’re comparing two very different scenarios. The axis power were an acute threat. Easily seen and readily understood as a threat. This is not the case today.
A Mustang had 1,800 rounds, full 6 guns firing you had 30 seconds. Worst no indication on what you had left. So those shots better be on semi-auto, or single. Not sure how much bomber could carry. But a Mustang shooting something down much have been difficult.
Read somewhere back in the day, this guy was in a bar, this other guy complaining about his military job to this little guy in uniform. Little guy had enough, asked him, "You want to trade jobs?" "What do you do?" "Turret gunner. " "No thanks." The interesting thing was that the guy overhearing the conversation had sized up the little guy. Apparently, some of them looked like raccoons, getting slight frostbite around the goggles where skin was exposed. Goggles were used by aerial gunners to help with glare and tracer rounds blinding them temporarily, some goggles even having adjustable tint. Father served in WW II, in the Pacific, in the Navy volunteering to go with the Marines, but he was in the medical field. Was a very unpleasant experience, from the little he would talk about it. He was proud to be in the Navy, but never waxed poetic about it, rather not be reminded by it.
All theaters of war were unfavorable but in my opinion the pacific theater was a particular hell on earth. I will never forget your fathers service and keep our warriors memory’s in my hart till I die. Those were some real hard men truly our greatest generation. Thank you for your story. We patriots know the cost of our freedoms.
@@nonyabiz2777 What freedoms? In multiple Allied countries today, they'll literally throw you into a cage for using the wrong pronoun on someone, calling someone a rac!aI sIur (even an intruder in your house!), questioning that 6 miIIion thing, or putting up anti-!mm!gra!on posters. But hey, at least we're not speaking German, right?
In my opinion the B-52 is the finest “giant” bomber ever conceived. The very idea this aircraft with all the extensive modifications is expected to endure nearly 100 years of service is an extraordinary testament of American ingenuity.
My dad's first cousin flew for the RCAF in a Halifax, which crashed in January 1944 after a collision with a German nightfighter. He was a sergeant gunner. None of the crew survived. My dad served in the RN and the corvette he was in from 1944-45 had a Boulton-Paul turret fitted where there was normally a single 4" gun. He loved the powered turret, as he got to man it because he was in charge of all AA on the ship. By 1956 the RAF had the Avro Vulcan, a bomber way ahead of its time.
Actually bomber defenses in ww2 cut many many fighters to ribbons. In Japan, many fighters simply chose not to attempt an attack if great numbers weren't available. It was absolutely just as dangerous to approach them as it was for the bomber to be hit. It just simply wasn't as destructive and devastating to loose a fighter as it was to loose a massive bomber. The defenses were successful and approaching any American 4 engine bomber was a suicide mission without altitude and speed, as noted by Many German, Italian and Japanese flyers who wrote diaries during ww2. The only reason turrets were eliminated is missile and gun technology increasing to a point where the weight and drag penalties became negative
Well, sure. Message of the video is just "bomber gunners were useless" while it completely ignores causalities caused by gunners. And they were pretty high too. Ignoring this fact degrades this (otherwise nice) video to an one-sided narration.
My suspicion about the FW-200 breaking their backs is that they were designed as airliners. In Luftwaffe service, they stuck big fuel tanks in the passenger cabin, and the structure wasn't designed to take all that weight there.
The 2 B-52s credited with shooting down Mig-21s in Linebacker II are on permanent display. One is at the north gate entrance of the Air Force Academy and the other is at the entrance to Fairchild AFB, Spokane.
A few points of context to add to the RAF bomber information: 1) While German night fighters could certainly outrange the .303 RAF turrets with 20 and 20mm cannon, they more often than not could not exploit that range, like they could against USAAF day bombers, due to night visibility. Both fighter and bomber made visual contact at very close range, within a few 100 meters, at night. Who shot first won the day. The quad .303 tail turrets were quite effective at those close ranges at night, while in daylight they would be at a great disadvantage over .50 turrets vs. German cannon. 2) The rear scanning radar on bombers had a brief service life as it was found the German night fighters eventually used it to home in on the signal. 3) The Nurenburg raid was a disaster due to night visibility in favour of the night fighers. It was a full moon over a blanket of low cloud with the bombers above the clouds. German night fighters could easily make out the silhouette of RAF bombers against the moonlit clouds and dive down. It was consequently a slaughter, allowing the German night fighters to use their range advantage in near daylight conditions, similar to early war RAF daylight raids.
Back in the 70s my high school principal had been a tail gunner in a B-17. On one mission the tail of the plane was shot off over German controlled territory and he was able to parachute from the plane. He was Jewish, and since his dog tags had a star of David stamped on them, he had the presence of mind to remove them before he landed. He was taken prisoner and put in a POW camp where he remained until the end of the war.
Can you imagine you're moving down the road, cooking breakfast, taking a bath, or doing some other mundane activity when BOOM at drop tank falls out of the sky. I always wanted to hear the stories about those sort of things happening.
During WWII drop tanks were commonly made of papier-mâché, "While probably a nuisance for those under the flight path when the empty tanks were released, they were lightweight and comparatively fragile ... they were likely to cause nothing but anxiety" (Wikipedia).
@@magnemoe1the strategic bomber campaign sucked German manpower, and artillery away from the fighting at the front. German aircraft production was driven into single-engined fighters ( rather than bombers ) to defend German cities. Bombing also caused general disruption to German war production
@@jpmtlhead39 Not enough fuel, not enough special metals for jet engines, not enough safe areas to train pilots adequately, not enough manpower to draw pilots from - Germany is short.if resources and has lost the war in middle of 1943. It's just a question of how long it lingers before destroyed. And if it survives until August 1945, then Fat Man and Little Boy will be dropped on German cities not Japanese ones.
I would prefer to be in a bomber at 30,000ft than being in a submarine, at least I can jump out with a parachute but in a submarine you cannot escape if hit.
Despite the impression the commentators are giving, the B29 was not liked by its crews. Certainly not like the Lanc, Mossie, or the 17/24s were. My Dad was a B29 FE in 1945 and later in Korea. He had two comments he would make: 1st the engines were a disaster-they caught fire frequently. 2nd the complexity of the gunnery system was a nightmare to maintain and frequently failed. Now we would say, "bleeding edge of tech". Note that the gunnery system was sort of OBE by March '45. That's when LeMay changed tactics to low-level night attacks. Since the Japanese didn't have any real nightfighters or radar directed AAA for that matter, they removed every turret except the tail. This increased TAS and to a lesser degree range, which my Dad said most guys thought was a good trade off for fewer guns...
Sargent Oscar Gascon tail gunner The English Channel is his Resting Place Uncle that I never met him but being my dads older brother I can say he had to be a little crazy to be a bottom tail gunner.Luv n Respect to ALL that paid the price for us USA
Amazing video. Informative, accurate, very well presented and organized. The material is so unique to WW2 bombers' defense armaments, that I have to say this video is among the best I've seen.
If Galland and Goering did not dislike each other, things would had been different for Luftwaffe.Goering loved his bombers and Galland his fighters, but Goering had the last say. Galland told Goering his fighters can't fly the same speed as bombers because when the Spitfires were on them,the German fighters still had to pick up speed.
I guess they coming with laser armed planes. That can of worms is likely to change air combat as much if not more than missiles. It might well be that an stealthy plane with an 200-1000 Kw laser would be very hard to take out as it could kill most things who can target it, outside another laser.
No aircraft needs to get within visual distance of another to shoot it down these days, Only aircraft still flying with useful guns are the A-10 and Hercules gunships like the AC-130J Ghost Riders. If you need to use guns in a modern fighter aircraft, your not doing your job right.
Sacrifices had to be made for the huhe explosive payload of the 30mm shell The Mk108 cannon that fired it was low in both cyclic rate and muzzle velocity. It was thus not capable of very long range. German pilots had determined resolve and nerves of steel, for they had to enter the gun range and overlapping fields of fire to attack the B-17, which they named the "flying porcupine" for this very reason.
My father was WWII RAF AG/Sigs, but Coastal Command, U-boat Patrol, rather than bombers. I also suspect he may've been electronics counter measures, he was on reserve for several years after the war
The Lancaster was never designed as a Day Bomber , the RAF had given up daylight raids in 1940 . Heavy armament in night bombers meant carrying unnecessary weight . The best range a gunner could hope to see a German night-fighter was 3-400 yds within damaging distance of 0.303's
For context, the Avro Manchester, which the Lancaster is a four engined development of, was designed in 1936. The Lancaster prototype was ordered in August 1940
It must be great to know that when enemy fighters are coming in, they're literally gunning for you the gunner. Then after you're dead, they can come in high on the bomber and pick their shot.
21:10 When Mr. Nijboer was explaining this it reminded me of Sonderkommando Eble, the German kamikaze squadron that was introduced in 1945, their job was to take outdated BF-109 airframes, that were stripped down to only being armed with one 7.92mm MG, and ram them into B-17 Flying Fortresses and B-24 Liberators with the pilots hopefully bailing out of their planes before hitting the planes that they targeted.
Looking back on these times in the far future one will realize that we were the first generation of kids that grew up knowing such destruction could end everything in an instant because of mutually assured destruction.
Out of 110,000 RAF bomber aircrew, 56,000 died!! The largest loss of any of the Allied service arms in WW2 - the only Service arm that exceeded this chop rate was the German U-Boat crews - theirs was 75%!! And at the end they were denied a Bomber Command clasp to their Aircrew Europe Service Medals because Churchill got cold feet about the devastation that RAF Bomber Command (and the USAAF) had wrought on Europe! Brave men who went out every night, night after night, even though they knew the odds were against them ! Lest We Forget!
You may know that several years ago the Ministry of Defence belatedly made available a Bomber Commond clasp. I applied for one for my now-deceased father. He was a Halifax rear gunner having successfully completed 40 operations in 1944. The instructions were to affix the clasp to the ribbon of his 1939-45 Star, which I have done and that medal (one of seven) sits next to his DFM. However, on my opinion, the clasp is a poor acknowledgement. Made of gilded plastic, it measures 30mm x 5mm.
Vacuum tubes? why didn't they use circuit boards. Sometimes you just have to blame the procurement department. Just joking, how many of viewers initially thought I was serious, ha ha. Excellent video's parts 1 & 2 as usual. This channel is one of the few, I believe, that will actually give trustworthy information. This is of course is my personal view.
The B17 was sold to the public, politicians, and the military as a “fortress in the sky” capable of defending itself without escort. The main argument was that fighters of the era (c1935) were only slightly faster than the Fort and therefore would have trouble climbing & catching-up to Forts. While this might have been true of the Hawker Fury, P26, and F2A it most certainly was not true for fighters about to be introduced (eg Spitfire/Bf109). The mind-set (A flying fortress needs no escort) was hard to correct. Upon the US entry (Dec ‘41) escort was needed but it was delayed due to a positive experience (lucky) while bombing Hamburg (Ref: Operation Gomorrah) that reinforced the idea of unescorted B17s. It took several significant losses to correct this. (Absurd? Yes, today. Hindsight is always 20-20)
Nelle compatte formazioni di bombardieri, come potevano evitare di spararsi l’ un l’ altro con mitragliatrici pesanti con almeno 1.500 metri di portata ? Grazie.
Question …. How is it that B-17 formation were soo tight together how did machine gunners keep from hitting the closer B-17’s on the formation as well as all the other bombers in the formations we all see historical videos of bombing formations but with all the German fighter attacks how did the AAF keep from friendly fire events with German fighters activity at time soo extrem that was is possible that AAF machine gunner positions ever accidentally shoot down their own bombers???? I ve always wondered this !
17:00 5,940 RAF heavy bombers shot down x crew of 7 = 41,580 airmen killed, wounded or captured. Staggering You'd think RAF command would alter their tactics at +/-590...but no.
I would think USAAF Bomber Command were today in Charge of Security trucks going through the streets of Los Angeles today they would get a Semi Trailer and pack it with Security guards. Too heavy , too slow and bogged down with extra weight. The RAF had the right idea . A wooden framed Mosquito that could outfly the FW190 and drop the bombs more accurately as they could fly lower and only 2 crew
The thing is... when it comes to targeting... So wher it all goes wrong.. is when the gunner waits for a stable target.. THATS BAD! . cause it means the opponent has already been shooting at an angle as they roll in... RIGHT? SO.. the solution.. which is kinda very difficult to actualize.. Is the concentrate on targets with a changing CHANGING velocity. Speeding up. .. across your view (+ Delta V) OR. slowing down across your view ( - Delta V) NOW... thats superr hard to train for... RIGHT?.. But to understand it... you gotta vidualize it from the opponents field of view. The OPPONENT... comes it a a stable angle.. then starts to shoot as they .. at the same time .. as they change their attack angle. That means a visible .. but super cognitively difficult to process...change in delta V.. from a defensive position... ITS WHEN THEY INCREASE OR DECREASE ... delta V... IS WHEN YOU START TO SHOOT BACK. Right?. Anyone else out there can explain it better? PLEASE
You touched on one very significant aircraft early in this vid, namely the de Havilland Mosquito. Ignored by the RAF initially, it was an unarmed fast bomber, indeed faster than any fighter at over 400mph, but capable of carrying a bomb load comfortably in excess of the B17 or B24 over 800miles and back with only 2 crew. As a bomber the attrition rate was lower than any other aircraft, but further development made it one of the truly great multi role combat aircraft of the WW2 era. Not bad for a wooden aircraft, British of course so largely ignored by this USA-centric film.
I think you might want to confirm your bomb load statement. What I see is a max bomb cap of 4000 lbs for the Mosquito, much less the the 17's 6000-8000. Would love to see the reference saw.
My mums next door neighbour was a gunner in a Halifax. Shot down, bailed out and taken prisoner in Holland. Anyway, he said there were two ways of fighting your turret. You could either fire right at the attacker or you could fire a stream of tracer which the attacker would have to fly through to get a line on you. You had a better chance with the latter but you wouldn’t get a kill. When I think about it, the RAF were, well, they were crap!
@@kittyhawk9707 Great suggestion! I was thinking a PU236 Explosive Space Modulator might have worked but the photon torpedo launcher is a better choice.
it all sounded serious till they mentionned the schräge musik as an effective nightfighter weapon... 😆😆😆if it had been the case it would've been a widespread tool, not a footnote used in desperation of other means...
May I politely point you towards the very comprehensive Wikipedia entry on Schräge Musik. Amongst that entry is this - "." It was a truly devastating weapon, made worse in the early days of its deployment because crews did not know where the attack was coming from.
Message of the video is just "bomber gunners were useless" while it completely ignores causalities caused by gunners. And they were pretty high too. Ignoring this fact degrades this (otherwise nice) video to an one-sided narration.
We standardized on the 303 round to stop complications with the supply chain .. hence all RAF aircraft where armed with the same guns .. However the 303 is quite a light round , and didn't have much range compared to the heavier guns Germany used .. also turrets needed to be developed for any upgrades ..you can't just shove 2 extra / different guns in a turret designed for 2 303 machine guns
None of the RAF bombers had a single gun firing below. So the Luftwaffe latter developed 20mm/30mm cannon mounted at an upward angle to maneuver underneath the bomber, give it a burst and down it would go.
Sorry that is not correct. Some Lancaster’s were fitted with the Frazer Nash FN.64 Mid Lower Gun Turret, more commonly known as the Ventral turret. There were at least two operational in my father’s squadron.
any way you look at it...WWII bomber command for the English or US flight crews was potluck whether you came home or not...Awful job done by brave kids
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Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 WVa USA is behind you.... Safe and Strong is what takes to over come these Invader's from your Sovereign Country 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦....... Love you all...
in vietnam war the b 52 gunners destroys 2 mig 21
zero b52 had been destroys by mig
why you didnt say that?
in war coréa the oldIies but goodies b 29 desrtoys 30 mig 15
fifty fifty with the losses
why you d on t say that?
the strategics bombers were the greats winners of all comflits
but you refused this thing
😊
Our family had the humbled chance to meet a WWII B-17 side gunner who survived all 25 missions over Germany. Doug White, R.IP. Doug became a house builder in the Bay Area (Calif) after the war and eventually opened a Christmas tree farm in Pollock Pines. He and his wife kept all of the newspaper articled from the war as he flew these dangerous missions. My respect for all of their bravery. God bless all their souls.
Beautiful way to keep him alive.
Interesting and informative. Excellent photography job enabling viewers to better understand what/whom the orator was describing. Special thanks to veteran bomber crews/guest speakers sharing personal information/combat experiences making this documentary more authentic and possible. Fighting/perishing/surviving knowing certain death/debilitating wounds were often times possible. Yet still advanced forward regardless of the consequences. True grit style determination to succeed. A special shout out to the often forgotten air craft designers/engineers/assembly crafts personal.
It always amazes me just how far we have fallen in under a century. Most men back then were willing to die to protect others and what they loved back then. Now our governments are destroying our countries and were being invaded by what is blatant army. Yet very few are willing to do or even say anything.
I look up to those men who were willing to die to save others. A kind of man we should all strive to be.
You’re comparing two very different scenarios. The axis power were an acute threat. Easily seen and readily understood as a threat. This is not the case today.
"…the Scrooge of the Atlantic…". 😂😂😂
Had to check that he actually said that. A shame really.
To be fair to OP, the FW 200 was a bit of a humbug.😅
I thought that's what he said.
That's what you latched on to? I keep hearing fuckerwolf.
@@forthleftcould be worse....he could have mispronounced focke
My dad was a waist gunner/radio operator on a B26, 9th AAC. I don't think he ever shot down a plane but he did tell us about shooting at the 262 jets.
Bless him!
A Mustang had 1,800 rounds, full 6 guns firing you had 30 seconds.
Worst no indication on what you had left.
So those shots better be on semi-auto, or single.
Not sure how much bomber could carry.
But a Mustang shooting something down much have been difficult.
Read somewhere back in the day, this guy was in a bar, this other guy complaining about his military job to this little guy in uniform.
Little guy had enough, asked him, "You want to trade jobs?"
"What do you do?"
"Turret gunner. "
"No thanks."
The interesting thing was that the guy overhearing the conversation had sized up the little guy.
Apparently, some of them looked like raccoons, getting slight frostbite around the goggles where skin was exposed.
Goggles were used by aerial gunners to help with glare and tracer rounds blinding them temporarily, some goggles even having adjustable tint.
Father served in WW II, in the Pacific, in the Navy volunteering to go with the Marines, but he was in the medical field.
Was a very unpleasant experience, from the little he would talk about it.
He was proud to be in the Navy, but never waxed poetic about it, rather not be reminded by it.
All theaters of war were unfavorable but in my opinion the pacific theater was a particular hell on earth. I will never forget your fathers service and keep our warriors memory’s in my hart till I die. Those were some real hard men truly our greatest generation. Thank you for your story. We patriots know the cost of our freedoms.
@@nonyabiz2777 What freedoms? In multiple Allied countries today, they'll literally throw you into a cage for using the wrong pronoun on someone, calling someone a rac!aI sIur (even an intruder in your house!), questioning that 6 miIIion thing, or putting up anti-!mm!gra!on posters. But hey, at least we're not speaking German, right?
Love listening to Captain Brown's comments...
His book's a belter.
The Navy treated him disgracefully at the end.
In my opinion the B-52 is the finest “giant” bomber ever conceived. The very idea this aircraft with all the extensive modifications is expected to endure nearly 100 years of service is an extraordinary testament of American ingenuity.
b 52 destroys 2 mig21 in vietnam war
zero losses again mig
My dad's first cousin flew for the RCAF in a Halifax, which crashed in January 1944 after a collision with a German nightfighter. He was a sergeant gunner. None of the crew survived.
My dad served in the RN and the corvette he was in from 1944-45 had a Boulton-Paul turret fitted where there was normally a single 4" gun. He loved the powered turret, as he got to man it because he was in charge of all AA on the ship.
By 1956 the RAF had the Avro Vulcan, a bomber way ahead of its time.
Bless them
A first class episode and series. Marvelous. Special note was the rare show of B-36 top guns opened and operated
Actually bomber defenses in ww2 cut many many fighters to ribbons. In Japan, many fighters simply chose not to attempt an attack if great numbers weren't available. It was absolutely just as dangerous to approach them as it was for the bomber to be hit. It just simply wasn't as destructive and devastating to loose a fighter as it was to loose a massive bomber. The defenses were successful and approaching any American 4 engine bomber was a suicide mission without altitude and speed, as noted by Many German, Italian and Japanese flyers who wrote diaries during ww2. The only reason turrets were eliminated is missile and gun technology increasing to a point where the weight and drag penalties became negative
Well, sure. Message of the video is just "bomber gunners were useless" while it completely ignores causalities caused by gunners.
And they were pretty high too.
Ignoring this fact degrades this (otherwise nice) video to an one-sided narration.
My suspicion about the FW-200 breaking their backs is that they were designed as airliners. In Luftwaffe service, they stuck big fuel tanks in the passenger cabin, and the structure wasn't designed to take all that weight there.
My dad and I had a friend who was a nose gunner on B17’s. He made it back most of his fellow USAAF members were killed. Joe had terrible PTSD
I was a doorman ( gunner ) in a SA 321 Super Frelon ( Super Honet ) in the Forgotten War. Usually air to ground attacks. 50 Browning was a beast.
Thank you for your service!
Good old "Ma Deuce."
Not just the detailed explanation and with reel footage ... but the accounts of the veterans combine to make this an excellent report/documentary.
no
the strategic bombers were the greats winners of alll the wars
fighters nothing
but the documentary say not that
The 2 B-52s credited with shooting down Mig-21s in Linebacker II are on permanent display. One is at the north gate entrance of the Air Force Academy and the other is at the entrance to Fairchild AFB, Spokane.
Fairchild is in Airway Heights. But Spokane is by far the nearest large city.
My nans cousin was a tail gunner in Lancasters during WW2, unfortunately he was killed in a training accident not long before the end of the war.
Bless him
May he rest in eternal peace. 😇
It's expected to lose people in battle, but when it happens in training, it feels like they were cheated.
@@Jonathan.D happens far too often.
cool... sucks to be him
A few points of context to add to the RAF bomber information:
1) While German night fighters could certainly outrange the .303 RAF turrets with 20 and 20mm cannon, they more often than not could not exploit that range, like they could against USAAF day bombers, due to night visibility. Both fighter and bomber made visual contact at very close range, within a few 100 meters, at night. Who shot first won the day. The quad .303 tail turrets were quite effective at those close ranges at night, while in daylight they would be at a great disadvantage over .50 turrets vs. German cannon.
2) The rear scanning radar on bombers had a brief service life as it was found the German night fighters eventually used it to home in on the signal.
3) The Nurenburg raid was a disaster due to night visibility in favour of the night fighers. It was a full moon over a blanket of low cloud with the bombers above the clouds. German night fighters could easily make out the silhouette of RAF bombers against the moonlit clouds and dive down. It was consequently a slaughter, allowing the German night fighters to use their range advantage in near daylight conditions, similar to early war RAF daylight raids.
Watching this just so im prepared if one day I get to be a tailgunner of a school bus in detroit.
Kérném magyar nyelven. Köszönöm. Egy idős ember aki sajnos nem tud angolul. Egy idős ember. Laci
Back in the 70s my high school principal had been a tail gunner in a B-17. On one mission the tail of the plane was shot off over German controlled territory and he was able to parachute from the plane. He was Jewish, and since his dog tags had a star of David stamped on them, he had the presence of mind to remove them before he landed. He was taken prisoner and put in a POW camp where he remained until the end of the war.
Bless him. Thank for sharing his story
That saved his life
Can you imagine you're moving down the road, cooking breakfast, taking a bath, or doing some other mundane activity when BOOM at drop tank falls out of the sky. I always wanted to hear the stories about those sort of things happening.
During WWII drop tanks were commonly made of papier-mâché, "While probably a nuisance for those under the flight path when the empty tanks were released, they were lightweight and comparatively fragile ... they were likely to cause nothing but anxiety" (Wikipedia).
Imagine we had not waisted all those resources (and men) on turrets, and instead thrown everything in to long range fighter development much earlier?
Agree, now the strategic bombing was pretty wasteful anyway, an stronger focus on close in air support would probably be better
@@magnemoe1 Wow, just wow.
@@magnemoe1the strategic bomber campaign sucked German manpower, and artillery away from the fighting at the front. German aircraft production was driven into single-engined fighters ( rather than bombers ) to defend German cities. Bombing also caused general disruption to German war production
@@jpmtlhead39 Not enough fuel, not enough special metals for jet engines, not enough safe areas to train pilots adequately, not enough manpower to draw pilots from - Germany is short.if resources and has lost the war in middle of 1943. It's just a question of how long it lingers before destroyed. And if it survives until August 1945, then Fat Man and Little Boy will be dropped on German cities not Japanese ones.
wasted
I would prefer to be in a bomber at 30,000ft than being in a submarine, at least I can jump out with a parachute but in a submarine you cannot escape if hit.
Despite the impression the commentators are giving, the B29 was not liked by its crews. Certainly not like the Lanc, Mossie, or the 17/24s were.
My Dad was a B29 FE in 1945 and later in Korea. He had two comments he would make: 1st the engines were a disaster-they caught fire frequently. 2nd the complexity of the gunnery system was a nightmare to maintain and frequently failed. Now we would say, "bleeding edge of tech". Note that the gunnery system was sort of OBE by March '45. That's when LeMay changed tactics to low-level night attacks. Since the Japanese didn't have any real nightfighters or radar directed AAA for that matter, they removed every turret except the tail. This increased TAS and to a lesser degree range, which my Dad said most guys thought was a good trade off for fewer guns...
Sargent Oscar Gascon tail gunner The English Channel is his Resting Place Uncle that I never met him but being my dads older brother I can say he had to be a little crazy to be a bottom tail gunner.Luv n Respect to ALL that paid the price for us USA
Amazing video. Informative, accurate, very well presented and organized. The material is so unique to WW2 bombers' defense armaments, that I have to say this video is among the best I've seen.
🙏👍
Outstanding video...thank you
So nice of you
If Galland and Goering did not dislike each other, things would had been different for Luftwaffe.Goering loved his bombers and Galland his fighters, but Goering had the last say. Galland told Goering his fighters can't fly the same speed as bombers because when the Spitfires were on them,the German fighters still had to pick up speed.
They need to bring turret aircraft back. So many needs could be met with new updated turrets from ground cover to air cover.
I guess they coming with laser armed planes. That can of worms is likely to change air combat as much if not more than missiles.
It might well be that an stealthy plane with an 200-1000 Kw laser would be very hard to take out as it could kill most things who can target it, outside another laser.
No aircraft needs to get within visual distance of another to shoot it down these days, Only aircraft still flying with useful guns are the A-10 and Hercules gunships like the AC-130J Ghost Riders. If you need to use guns in a modern fighter aircraft, your not doing your job right.
The 30MM cannons on the Luftwaffe were designed to fire outside of the range of the 50 Caliber guns.
Sacrifices had to be made for the huhe explosive payload of the 30mm shell The Mk108 cannon that fired it was low in both cyclic rate and muzzle velocity. It was thus not capable of very long range. German pilots had determined resolve and nerves of steel, for they had to enter the gun range and overlapping fields of fire to attack the B-17, which they named the "flying porcupine" for this very reason.
This was a very informative and interesting documentary i really enjoyed it .
Glad to hear it!
Good!!
My father was WWII RAF AG/Sigs, but Coastal Command, U-boat Patrol, rather than bombers. I also suspect he may've been electronics counter measures, he was on reserve for several years after the war
Pretty nice doc!! 👍
Thanks 👍
The Lancaster was never designed as a Day Bomber , the RAF had given up daylight raids in 1940 . Heavy armament in night bombers meant carrying unnecessary weight . The best range a gunner could hope to see a German night-fighter was 3-400 yds within damaging distance of 0.303's
Hard to believe they used such a light round.
For context, the Avro Manchester, which the Lancaster is a four engined development of, was designed in 1936. The Lancaster prototype was ordered in August 1940
It must be great to know that when enemy fighters are coming in, they're literally gunning for you the gunner. Then after you're dead, they can come in high on the bomber and pick their shot.
Very nice braid 💯
21:10 When Mr. Nijboer was explaining this it reminded me of Sonderkommando Eble, the German kamikaze squadron that was introduced in 1945, their job was to take outdated BF-109 airframes, that were stripped down to only being armed with one 7.92mm MG, and ram them into B-17 Flying Fortresses and B-24 Liberators with the pilots hopefully bailing out of their planes before hitting the planes that they targeted.
Thats okay . Australians were invisible in this videos' story of WW2
Looking back on these times in the far future one will realize that we were the first generation of kids that grew up knowing such destruction could end everything in an instant because of mutually assured destruction.
great documentary .... funny though how at 30:25 all of Bad Moustache Mans flags and insignias have been edited out
Does anyone have any info on that "veneto beacon"" mentioned at 15:12? I can't find any info in my references or on line.
The B-17 DID NOT HAVE A TAIL TURRET, in any version! It had a tail gunner's position but he did not have a turret!
B17 una gloria y liberator también 👍👍🌟🌟
Out of 110,000 RAF bomber aircrew, 56,000 died!! The largest loss of any of the Allied service arms in WW2 - the only Service arm that exceeded this chop rate was the German U-Boat crews - theirs was 75%!! And at the end they were denied a Bomber Command clasp to their Aircrew Europe Service Medals because Churchill got cold feet about the devastation that RAF Bomber Command (and the USAAF) had wrought on Europe! Brave men who went out every night, night after night, even though they knew the odds were against them ! Lest We Forget!
You may know that several years ago the Ministry of Defence belatedly made available a Bomber Commond clasp. I applied for one for my now-deceased father. He was a Halifax rear gunner having successfully completed 40 operations in 1944. The instructions were to affix the clasp to the ribbon of his 1939-45 Star, which I have done and that medal (one of seven) sits next to his DFM. However, on my opinion, the clasp is a poor acknowledgement. Made of gilded plastic, it measures 30mm x 5mm.
Sorta like cruiser development in the same time period. Aircraft problems? MOOOORE GUNS.
2:53 it’s scourge of the Atlantic. Not Scrooge! 😂
I would love to see a video on the bf 109s and fw 150s.
The FW 200 was a converted airliner. They over loaded the airframe, that is why several broke in two on landing.
5:45 That appears to be a PB4Y, rather than a B-24 ;)
If only the "Black Widow" was available at the time...
Vacuum tubes? why didn't they use circuit boards. Sometimes you just have to blame the procurement department. Just joking, how many of viewers initially thought I was serious, ha ha. Excellent video's parts 1 & 2 as usual. This channel is one of the few, I believe, that will actually give trustworthy information. This is of course is my personal view.
Never seen this footage of Eric Brown. Where is that from?
his house
Damn, I thought we used fighter escorts through out the war. Seems just absurd to think bombers would be invunerable.
The B17 was sold to the public, politicians, and the military as a “fortress in the sky” capable of defending itself without escort. The main argument was that fighters of the era (c1935) were only slightly faster than the Fort and therefore would have trouble climbing & catching-up to Forts. While this might have been true of the Hawker Fury, P26, and F2A it most certainly was not true for fighters about to be introduced (eg Spitfire/Bf109). The mind-set (A flying fortress needs no escort) was hard to correct. Upon the US entry (Dec ‘41) escort was needed but it was delayed due to a positive experience (lucky) while bombing Hamburg (Ref: Operation Gomorrah) that reinforced the idea of unescorted B17s. It took several significant losses to correct this. (Absurd? Yes, today. Hindsight is always 20-20)
These turrets take the fun out of killing people. Did I hit him? I don't know he flew away. Very thorough doc.
I was thinkin of that show Lost when they met that lady from the transmitted loop. Then sawyer was hurt and swam then met that ana lucia
Often wondered how close box formations.kept from shooting each other? Or, did they indeed shoot each.other?
Would you admit gunning down your buddy ?
Of course it happened !!!
In the course of Combat accidents happen !!!
Just another"Training Accident" !!!
Nelle compatte formazioni di bombardieri, come potevano evitare di spararsi l’ un l’ altro con mitragliatrici pesanti con almeno 1.500 metri di portata ? Grazie.
Great game but miss tilt steering
日本海軍でも同じ考えで、一式陸攻に機銃を増設した護衛攻撃機を企画しました。
Question …. How is it that B-17 formation were soo tight together how did machine gunners keep from hitting the closer B-17’s on the formation as well as all the other bombers in the formations we all see historical videos of bombing formations but with all the German fighter attacks how did the AAF keep from friendly fire events
with German fighters activity at time soo extrem that was is possible that AAF machine gunner positions ever accidentally shoot down their own bombers???? I ve always wondered this !
Please note the Dornier is not a "Doh-Ex" but a "Dee-Oh-Ten."
17:00 5,940 RAF heavy bombers shot down x crew of 7 = 41,580 airmen killed, wounded or captured.
Staggering
You'd think RAF command would alter their tactics at +/-590...but no.
Speed is life.
Eric brown is a legend but his p47 mach limit assessment was wrong
Care to be specific, so others can chime in?
50 calibers going out, 20mm coming in
I do not believe that any 109 was anxious to fly into the path of a Ma Deuce...
I was a left waist gunner then.
I would think USAAF Bomber Command were today in Charge of Security trucks going through the streets of Los Angeles today they would get a Semi Trailer and pack it with Security guards. Too heavy , too slow and bogged down with extra weight. The RAF had the right idea . A wooden framed Mosquito that could outfly the FW190 and drop the bombs more accurately as they could fly lower and only 2 crew
War thunder needs to model there B-17 after this lore…. 😅
Music is too loud. Needs an audio re-mix.
The thing is... when it comes to targeting...
So wher it all goes wrong.. is when the gunner waits for a stable target.. THATS BAD! . cause it means the opponent has already been shooting at an angle as they roll in... RIGHT?
SO.. the solution.. which is kinda very difficult to actualize..
Is the concentrate on targets with a changing CHANGING velocity. Speeding up. .. across your view (+ Delta V) OR. slowing down across your view ( - Delta V)
NOW... thats superr hard to train for... RIGHT?..
But to understand it... you gotta vidualize it from the opponents field of view.
The OPPONENT... comes it a a stable angle.. then starts to shoot as they .. at the same time .. as they change their attack angle. That means a visible .. but super cognitively difficult to process...change in delta V.. from a defensive position...
ITS WHEN THEY INCREASE OR DECREASE ... delta V... IS WHEN YOU START TO SHOOT BACK. Right?.
Anyone else out there can explain it better? PLEASE
Today its sthelth or speed that make protection for bombing.
More men ere lost in training than in the war
You touched on one very significant aircraft early in this vid, namely the de Havilland Mosquito. Ignored by the RAF initially, it was an unarmed fast bomber, indeed faster than any fighter at over 400mph, but capable of carrying a bomb load comfortably in excess of the B17 or B24 over 800miles and back with only 2 crew. As a bomber the attrition rate was lower than any other aircraft, but further development made it one of the truly great multi role combat aircraft of the WW2 era. Not bad for a wooden aircraft, British of course so largely ignored by this USA-centric film.
I think you might want to confirm your bomb load statement. What I see is a max bomb cap of 4000 lbs for the Mosquito, much less the the 17's 6000-8000. Would love to see the reference saw.
@@hobopelicani agree nooooo way it carried as much tons as the 17 or 24. Where do people find this wrong info…
My mums next door neighbour was a gunner in a Halifax. Shot down, bailed out and taken prisoner in Holland. Anyway, he said there were two ways of fighting your turret. You could either fire right at the attacker or you could fire a stream of tracer which the attacker would have to fly through to get a line on you. You had a better chance with the latter but you wouldn’t get a kill.
When I think about it, the RAF were, well, they were crap!
Why do bombers not carry rear-ward firing missiles to defend themselves with..
Dunno.. Why not a rear Photon torpedo launcher instead .....
Weight
@@kittyhawk9707 Great suggestion! I was thinking a PU236 Explosive Space Modulator might have worked but the photon torpedo launcher is a better choice.
😂
🙃@@OrangPasien
So the rest of the formation just left the gun ships behind. Buddy f'rs.
it all sounded serious till they mentionned the schräge musik as an effective nightfighter weapon... 😆😆😆if it had been the case it would've been a widespread tool, not a footnote used in desperation of other means...
May I politely point you towards the very comprehensive Wikipedia entry on Schräge Musik. Amongst that entry is this - "." It was a truly devastating weapon, made worse in the early days of its deployment because crews did not know where the attack was coming from.
B-24 did a lot of things better but it was the B-17 tat got you home
Please please please cover image name
If that thumbnail is the last thing you will ever see you are going to have
NIGHTMARES IN HELL!
B-29 turret guns; "Can't Miss"😂
When the defense industrial complex makes that kinda statement, beware !
"beware the defense industrial complex"
Sounded like the plane was named the fuckoff ### 😮
The real problem was what to do when the loc-nar reanimates your dead crewmen.
Only 2 of them were in turrets, though
Message of the video is just "bomber gunners were useless" while it completely ignores causalities caused by gunners.
And they were pretty high too.
Ignoring this fact degrades this (otherwise nice) video to an one-sided narration.
did you watch both parts, 1 and 2?
But it wasn't enough...
One needs fighter cover going in an the other coming out ???
"The _Scrooge_ of the Atlantic?!?" I think you mean "the scourge." Lmao
A mistake...I think many, many more made your same identical comment before. Unfortunately we cannot fix it after it has been published.
Why on Earth were the RAF bombers so lightly armored?...
We standardized on the 303 round to stop complications with the supply chain .. hence all RAF aircraft where armed with the same guns .. However the 303 is quite a light round , and didn't have much range compared to the heavier guns Germany used .. also turrets needed to be developed for any upgrades ..you can't just shove 2 extra / different guns in a turret designed for 2 303 machine guns
jos
None of the RAF bombers had a single gun firing below. So the Luftwaffe latter developed 20mm/30mm cannon mounted at an upward angle to maneuver underneath the bomber, give it a burst and down it would go.
Yes, called “schrage musik” or “jazz music”
One pilot destroyed 7 lancs. in one night.@@andreperrault5393
He said that in the video....thanks for pointing out stuff we already knew ...
Sorry that is not correct. Some Lancaster’s were fitted with the Frazer Nash FN.64 Mid Lower Gun Turret, more commonly known as the Ventral turret. There were at least two operational in my father’s squadron.
The BGM is to much.
reinicia
If timed properly, the American "BLACK WIDOW" would have decimated the German Fighters!
it was a night fighter built for endurance not dogfighting.
Ходячий пулємєт
Як
"Scrooge of the Atlantic" ??.
Poor guys, and they died for nothing.
I wish we had free and fair elections, this would all stop.
any way you look at it...WWII bomber command for the English or US flight crews was potluck whether you came home or not...Awful job done by brave kids