“Gene Roddenberry just made it all up” That’s the thing that I think most fans (myself included) need to remember. At the end of the day, Captain Kirk is just some guy that only exists in someone else’s head. We as fans tend to take Trek far too seriously. Rather than wasting so much time and effort concerning ourselves with canon and internal consistency, we should instead apply that effort into taking what Star Trek teaches us (or at least tries to teach) and applying it to real life. Society would probably be a lot better for everyone if Trekkies put at least as much effort into inspiring positive societal change as we put into complaining about how nuTrek violates canon.
Yeah many treat "Gene's" vision the same way as the State's constitution (IE divinely inspired) and are probably waiting for the day they are told that it's all real, like that character in Galaxy Quest.
funny thing I heard, actually: some people are talking about NuTrek breaking canon goes against Gene's vision, but yet it was Gene who also (more or less) said that he doesn't really care about long term canon.
@@Faction.Paradox Would that really be so bad? If all that positive societal change turned out to be inspired by the thing commonly referred to as "Gene's vision"?
@@mr.werb15md90 I don't see the connection. Unless you think that whenever anyone invokes "Gene's vision" they're suggesting a slavish adherence to every preference, opinion and offhand remark he's ever made. I think vision is much broader and isn't curtailed by those smaller things, nor is it solely the legacy of only one man. That said, if we're talking about that more comprehensive sense of vision, it isn't necessarily violated by just any breaking from established cannon, but only those instances that are incompatible with that vision.
@@mr.werb15md90 - agreed; people obsessed about Gene’s “purity of vision” need to look up the story of the IDIC medallion: m.imdb.com/title/tt0708433/trivia/?ref_=tt_ql_trv In a nutshell, it was a shill for Roddenberry to make some extra cash. 😄
McCoy: "Don't you sometimes wonder if we're on some kind of wagon train to the stars, Jim?" Kirk: "Wagon train, Bones?" Spock: "Consitering technological advancements, such a trip would be highly illogical."
McCoy was supposed to be Frank McClowery in the ST episode “Shadow of the Gun” and I believe DeForesf Kelly play Frank McClowery in a Gunfight at the OK Corral movie from the late 50s.
The Battlestar Galactica series of the late 1970s really was almost a literal wagon train. Various ships packed with colonists headed to a specific destination being Earth.
Do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of "Inside Star Trek: The Real Story," by Herb Solow and Bob Justman. A facsimile of the "Star Trek Is..." pitch is reprinted in full. The entire book is an absolute treasure trove.
I remember in the UK, when Voyager was announced, people kept saying (tongue in cheek) that a series about a spaceship trapped years from Earth with a hologram who's a jerk sounds like a rip-off of Red Dwarf.
I think... he kind of is, in an ultimate sense. I'm guessing the various other characters named Morbius (as opposed to Möbius/Moebius, which is something else entirely) got the name from this guy. The Marvel Morbius, and the Doctor Who character as well.
"Ward Bond left the show after his death..." That'll do it. The Gregory Peck impression made me giggle. 😍 A Klingon centred film based on "Coriolanus" could be fun.
I became friends with Dorothy (DC) Fontana later in her life after she wrote an episode of the LONESOME DOVE TV series I was writing for. She was great - she created much of Spock's backstory and wrote several episodes. She was a pioneer among female TV writers of the 60s. Roddenberry has often been sited for taking too much credit for the creativity of others.
@@willmfrank so well said - and so true! I think he has been credited with more than his share of what TREK grew into, but he had the foresight to hire Dorothy and many other great writers and actors that made it a phenomenon. His core premise of a utopian vision of the future was important at that time of the 60s - the Cold War, racial and civic unrest - we needed that ray of hope.
I would think that everyone can agree that Roddenberry was really good at two things - 1. hiring talented and creative writers/production staff, and 2. taking as much credit for their output as possible.
I love Forbidden Planet. It's basically Shakespear's The Tempest & ST definitely had its Shakespearean elements. ( Plus in Spock's Brain they borrow directly from Forbidden Planet with the helmets that make you smart that enable McCoy to do the surgery that reconnects Spock's brain)
@yensid4294 Yes...''Forbidden Planet'' was based loosely on William Shakespeare's play "The.Tempest". Much in the way that ''The Lion King'' was based loosely on William Shakespeare's tragedy play ''Hamlet''. Dr. Morbius (Prospero), Altaira (Miranda), Leslie Nielsen's character John Adams (Ferdinand), The Monster (Caliban), Robby the Robot (Ariel).
Most Star Trek stories are variations of Shakespeare's plays. How do you think Patric Stewart got the job? As a Shakespearian Actor, when he interviewed for the part, he pointed out that most of the scripts are based on one or more of Shakespeare's plays. The rest is history.
"...left the show following his death," Gracie? If my mouth hadn't been empty at the time, you certainly would have gotten a spit-take out of me. Your delivery was positively arid. Best. Leo.
Forbidden Planet was also a huge visual reference for the production design of Star Trek. The Enterprise is basically the FP saucer with extra bits added on, and the "stasis beams" the crew uses to wait out long space voyages is visually almost identical to the Star Trek transporters.
Rather as famous as the Wagon Train to the stars line, Forbidden Planet was sometimes referred to as The Tempest in space. The producers made no bones about it as there were no worries about copyright on a centuries old work. On the contrary, there was some hope of increasing the audience by virtue of its impeccable source material. You know, we’re not junk, Mom. We’re based on Shakespeare. AKA steal from the best, I always say.
I'd forgotten about those sputnik light fixtures in Forbidden Planet. My parents had one hanging over the dining room table. And it occurs to me that, born in 57, I was influenced by Star Trek's influences too growing up, I was primed for a show like it when it premiered. Then Star Trek itself began influencing me, and it got me to start exploring literary sci-fi. It became a core part of who I am.
Same here, though I didn't get into it until 1975, at age 12. It also kicked my interest in astronomy from idling into reading every astronomy book I could get my hands on. Of course this made me realize later just how much science Star Trek got _wrong_ but I forgive them for the things that weren't known at that time. I wouldn't nowadays (ie. setting a story on a planet orbiting Vega, which doesn't even have stable planets yet, being such a young star).
Another influence is that many of the writers and production staff of the orignal show had familiarity with serving on a US Navy ship from WW2. If not directly from serving in the war, then from family members who did.
Paramount+ should follow up its limited series “The Offer” - which is about the making of “The Godfather” - with a series on the creation of “Star Trek.” Anson Mount as Jeffrey Hunter, Paul Wesley as William Shatner, Ethan Peck as Leonard Nimoy, Rebecca Romijn as Majel Barrett, Celia Rose Gooding as Nichelle Nichols. There's plenty of drama to be explored in Roddenberry's “Wagon Train to the stars” pitch and his battles with the network over a female Number One and the “demonic” looking science officer; the unprecedented second pilot and more network battles over the diversity represented by a Black woman on the bridge; Martin Luther King Jr. encouraging Nichols not to quit; Roddenberry's efforts to disguise contemporary social commentary as science fiction; maybe an episode about Harlan Ellison's grudge over “City on the Edge of Forever.” And so on. I've been enjoying “The Offer,” and think there's an equal amount of material for a series in that mold about Trek. Giovanni Ribisi impressed me with his performance as Joe Columbo. I could see him as Gene Roddenberry. D.C. Fontana should also be represented. And Lucille Ball - played by Nicole Kidman? I thought she was good in “Being the Ricardos.” Maybe even fans such as Bjo Trimble could make an appearance.
If I could use Carl the Talking Time Donut to go back a few years, I'd get Jonathan Frakes to play Gene Roddenberry, Grant Imahara to play Wah Chang, and Armin Shimerman to play Oscar Katz.
Hornblower was based on Nelson. C.S. Forester even said in an interview that he had to tone down some of Nelson's exploits because no one would believe a person could've accomplished that. I have heard what you say in this video before, but you put it together nicely. Thank you
@@alanpennie8013 Frederick Marryat, who had been a midshipman under Lord Cochrane in the Napoleonic wars, started the Swashbuckling Sea Captain genre. After an exemplary naval career -- reaching Post Captain, Marryat resigned from the Royal Navy and turned to writing in the 1830s. He wrote from his experiences and got a lot of source material from the Naval Gazette. C S Forester raided the Gazette for many of his plots, reviving the genre. Patrick O'Brian's Lucky Jack Aubrey is based on Cochrane, and his plots are also out of the Gazette, with some period Jane Austin dialog added. Alexander Kent's Bolitho is Cochrane-like, but Cornish, not Scottish. Dudley Pope's Ramage is a Lord, like Cochrane, too.
You forgot to mention Gene Roddenberry's first show, "The Lieutenant." It featured many actors who Roddenberry would later call back and hire to appear on Star Trek, like Lenny Nimoy, Nichelle Nichols, Walter Koening and Majel Barrett, just to name a few. (Indeed, I believe it's where Barrett and Roddenberry met.) It wasn't exactly an inspiration for an individual Star Trek scripts, but it did establish Roddenberry as a showrunner. In other words, if there had been no "The Lieutenant," there would never have been a "Star Trek."
What about Gary Lockwood who was in the show "The Lieutenant". He was in the Star Trek series as a character given the talent of being able to read and absorb material so much faster than normal human beings, along with Sally Kellerman in that episode.
Starlost (canada). Generation ship with multiple floors, each floor a different culture, unaware they are on a star ship, with the starring crew trying to find the control room. th-cam.com/video/l_Kv0VlJvNQ/w-d-xo.html
Morbius leaned forward and fitted the three extensions of the Krell learning device to his head. "Gentleman," he said to the gathered visitors. "It's Morbin' time."
Lucille Ball loves Science Fiction, she read the script. Fell in love with whole idea. After the origional piolet tanked. Lucille, personally stepped in and funded more shows. Which allowed Star Trek to continue on. Yet no one gives Lucille Ball either a mention as well as the credit. That she rightfully deserves!!
with a killer character to play and great makeup job to hide her appearance some, she could have easily been one of the great villains in star trek back in the day-
Only two weeks after the first Star Trek Episode the Series Raumschiff Orion started in Germany. It's also a Sci-Fi Story about a Space ship in a Utopia without nations and the discovery of Space
I've seen it here on youTube. It's as imaginative and made use of commonplace things to create a fascinating world.;) Let's show, not just tell: th-cam.com/video/3TMimV9reNs/w-d-xo.html
@@alanpennie8013 David Gerrold came up with the original version of that joke in either "The Trouble with Tribbles"(the book, not the episode) or "The World of Star Trek." I forget which.
"Did they plan this mission on the back of a Taco Bell receipt?" Actually, since Taco Bell won the Franchise Wars, they stopped issuing receipts. Just figured I should mention it.
I’d heard the expression “Wagon Train To The Stars” before, but never knew it was an actual program until now. It was well before my time, and never really came up. The similarities and differences make sense, as does Hornblower. One important element, the confidant, evolved as time went on. For Pike it was Dr. Philip Boyce, with a Martini, and friendly advice from an outside command structure view. For Kirk it was Dr. Elizabeth Deihner, the voice of descent, the Devils Advocate, who questioned Kirks authority. Not for the purpose elf undermining, but to keep his intentions honest. And then came McCoy, who did a little of both. Even to Spock, when he’d get a little too smug for his ears. More so, he broke up the buddy cop/ethnic sidekick formula. Green Hornet had Kato, Lone Ranger had Tonto, and so on. Like them, Kirk and Spock would go somewhere, encounter a problem, solve said problem, and ride off within the allotted time to the next adventure. But McCoy would challenge them, and the audience, as to weather they were in the right. However seemingly benevolent. Trek II has a scene regarding Genesis that exemplifies this. Something else that may have inspired Roddenberry was his time as a Military Pilot, in regards to the races and political and military structures encountered. The Federation being the Allies, or the U.N. Vulcans and Romulans like North and South Koreans, or Tibet and Communist China. Klingons definitely Cold War Russia. It could even be argued Cardassians and Bajorans started as Natzis and Jews. Not a perfect theory, but something to think about. One aside. For those who may not know, Sally Kellerman (Dr. Deihner) and Laurel Goodwin ( Yeoman J.M. Colt), passed away around March of this year within a few weeks of one another. Both were in the pilots, and Goodwin is said to have been the last living cast member from the original pilot. And finally, spin-off? I see what you did there! Just don’t go gettin all smug in YOUR ears….
However, in his dissing of the B9 Robot from Lost In Space, and his general dislke for anything other than Forbidden Planet, Mr. Shives forgot to mention the Lost In Space\Forbidden Planet tie-in. Both Robby AND B9 were created by Robert Kinoshita, as were the C57D and Jupiter 2 ship concepts. And he forgot that Robby was in Season One of Lost In Space in "War Of The Robots" which the B9 actually wins. Would have been nice if these factoids were mentioned, but better luck next time, right? :-)
"Left the show following his death" implies Ward Bond might have filmed a few episodes Weekend at Bernie's style before the crew discovered his demise?
I've been enjoying the British children's Sci Fi show "Space Patrol" for years. This was shown years before Star Trek, and has concept after concept similar to Star Trek. Logical Venusians with pointed ears, Husky is a "Bones" type character with a gruff voice. Many of the story lines are similar to Star Trek story lines. They had transporters, and episode where time was sped up for individuals. where they moved faster and the people around them seemed to stand still, having their voices sound like high pitched whines. There were the sliding doorways. It seemed to me that most of Space Patrol concepts were directly lifted and used in Star Trek. You will see many such similarities if you watch the old shows.
So well done! Very entertaining and accurate! However, while you glossed over the "Shakesperian" influence, you could have mentioned that just as Star Trek is "Wagon Train in space", Forbidden Planet is "The Tempest in space"! Just look at the direct parallels: Altaira/Miranda, Prospero/Morbius, Robby/Ariel, and of course The Id monster/Caliban!
I think when talking about the origins of Star Trek, you should also mention the works of EE Doc Smith, both the "Lensmen" series and "The Skylark of Space" as a major influence.
Another interesting fact, involves the character of Scotty. When I was 6 or 7, I was already reading at an 8th-grade level. That was around 1961-62. Some of the young-adult fiction was about the adventures of a crew aboard a "Liberty Ship" (WWII freighter). The chief engineer on that freighter was named "Scotty" (in books written in the 1940's). Toward the end of 1962, "Fireball XL5" hit Saturday morning cartoons. In this series, the chief engineer of the base, "Space City", was also called Scotty. By the time Star Trek came out, when I was in the 6th Grade, the Scotty-engineer character seemed cliche. By the way, if anyone knows the name of that series of young-adult short stories, the ones involving the Liberty Ship, I would be interested in knowing. My memories of those have faded, and I only recall fragments. One other item: The plot of the episode, "Balance of Terror", was "borrowed" from the WWII movie, "The Enemy Below"---about an American destroyer vs a German U-boat. The scripts are virtually identical.
I may be a Sci-Fi fan because of Fireball XL5 (it was being shown while I was 4-6 years old). I either became imprinted, or I loved it, because I was a budding Sci-Fi fan! 🛸👽 🚀🧑🚀
Also, the Gold Key comic book "Space Family Robinson," which served as the inspiration for "Lost in Space," had a B-series about a space adventurer named Rex Venture. His sidekick was named Scotty McCay.
The connection wasn`t direct as both were based on the old book Swiss Family Robinson by Johann David Wyss written way back in 1812 and in turn inspired by Robinson Crusoe. In fact, the original name for the TV series was supposed to be "Space Family Robinson" then somebody noticed that there was a comic series already using the name. So they changed it to "Lost in Space" to avoid a lawsuit.
Only 90%? I'm prepared to believe that at least half the stuff R2-D2 was saying to Luke when C-3PO wasn't even in sight was nothing more than obscene venting *about* C-3PO
Actually Rodenberry he wrote the pilot. The other person we can credit for this series is Lucille Ball. She was the CEO of Desilu studios. Lucy loved the 1st pilot and made a 2nd pilot. So even though the executives of all the other studios thought it sucked, it got a time slot on NBC anyway.
Excellent summary, Steve. Thank you. You connected a whole suite of dots between Forbidden Planet and The Cage. It's astounding how many dots I am now able to connect. Vena and Morbeous daughter look quite similar, for starters.
Thank you immensely for mentioning Forbidden Planet. It was my all time favorite Sci-Fi film from the 1950's especially for the Robot "Robbie" which captured my imagination of a 6 or 7 year old viewer, with my Dad buying me a reproduction of a Robbie Robot from his business trip to New York back then. Then my maternal Uncle Arthur who worked for an Import Company, bought me a near full sized Robbie which ran on two (2) C sized batteries logged into his legs. Both Robots were so cool from my youth. I will never forget them. Nor the film FORBIDDEN PLANET!
Don't forget about the widower and his young son at a remote outpost out on the edge of the frontier. Yes, the premise of DS9, but also the premise of the Rifleman.
You can find a lot of additional details in "Forbidden Planet" that influenced Star Trek. For example when they jumped out of hyperspace one officer said "We’ll reach DC point at 1701 Skipper." Or the coulor codes of the departments (at the shoulder). Or the personal shields when jumping to normal space, that looked like the transporter, etc.
Did you know that the same guy designed Robbie and the robot from Lost in Space? Also, no-one will argue that C3P0 is even the best robot in Star Wars, let alone all of sci-fi.
I remember coming across a sci-fi anthology published sometime in the 1950s. As I was reading it, I began to recognize the plots to various episodes of Star Trek. "The Cage" was one of them, the episode where Kirk fought the Gorn was one. I bet out of the ten or so stores, half of them ended up as Star Trek episodes.
Yep. Gene Coon didn't come up with "Arena." He adapted it from Frederick Brown's short story of the same name. I've read the original one and there's a lot that's the same (though Kirk got to keep his clothes).
@@Shan_Dalamani Not to be the "Trek, Actually" guy or anything - that's Steve's job - but Gene Coon actually did come up with that script all on his own; at least he thought he did at first. It was only after the script had been approved and was in pre-production that the legal department pointed out its similarity. Coon had an "Oh my God!" moment, remembering that he'd read "Arena" years before. Star Trek contacted Brown, they did a deal, and the episode got made. Ref: "Inside Star Trek: The Real Story," Herb Solow and Bob Justman, pages 206-7.
The book "The Making Of Star Trek" by Stephen Whitfield is a must read for any fan of the series, also for anyone who wants to learn how television shows were pitched and produced in those days. Also on a side note, "The Cage", the original pilot (Trek had two, the first TV series to do so, the second was "Where No Man Has Gone Before") is, in my opinion, one of the best science fiction films ever made, period.
ioan gruffudd starred in a really excellent adaptation of Hornblower in a series of movies, all easily found free on TH-cam. Aside from some characters expressing some prejudiced views of “the moors,” and the portrayal of them perhaps being biased itself (im not a historian, I can’t say), it really holds up well. The first few movies are the best ones. So, if you don’t mind watching historical fiction that glorifies a navy and empire that enforced colonialism, you can watch her majesty’s Royal Navy duke it out with France and Spain, and Hornblower rise to the occasion I liked the books too a few years ago, but there is undeniable racism baked in to certain sections. And of course the whole thing glorified a colonial superpower
Great episode! I’m a huge fan of Forbidden Planet. Robby is definitely the best robot in all of cinema, at least while in Forbidden Planet… The Invisible Boy is a real stinker of a movie that even Robby couldn’t save.
I wish for more of your vocal impressions in upcoming videos. Surprisingly great... I can't remember ever hearing that kind of stuff from you in previous Trek videos.
This is such an intriguing video topic, and it was an enjoyable journey into the origin of Star Trek! I look forward to the next 'Trek Actually' essay, as ST:TNG is my favorite.
While rewatching the original series I remember thinking "This is like Twight Zone in space." After seeing Roddenberry's pitch it really feels like that.
Steve Shives! You resemble Don Adams "GET SMART" with a beard. A movie critic in the 1980s defined, "The Wrath Of Khan" as, 'Hornblower vs Ahab'. Thank LUCY for it all. Red shirts with no red...plenty on "Forbidden Planet". My fav qoute from Star Trek TOS & a couple of times I have used it in real life, "YOU HAVE EARRRNED MY WRATH!" 'Squire Trelane'.
Gregory Peck just seems like a natural fit for Star Trek. Your impression makes it seem like he could be a good Vulcan. Sadly, Peck died almost 20 years ago, so I guess Steve's impression is the closest we'll get to Peck being in Star Trek. Well, unless a child or, I guess, a grandchild of his got a role. Can you imagine?
I’d love to see either specific Star Trek series inspiration, or if you want, different Star Trek writers inspiration. Both are fascinating concepts with tons of potential depth to them.
I don't have any sourcing, but this video or me wondering about DS9 myself. If I had to guess I'd say a film like Casablanca or a series like M*A*S*H would be strong contenders, as well as a lot of different movies and plays as inspiration for specific episodes.
Gene Roddenberry followed an ancient map of his father's to a secret temple under stone henge, there they found an old man who was turned out to be an old Gene who had travelled back in time. He had every episode memorised and dictated them to the his young self. What I'm saying is Star Treks creation is a boot strap paradox.
"Hey! let's make a movie 'rebooting' Lost in Space! Also, lets ask some of the original cast members to appear!" Bill Mumy: "..." "Lets hire an actor who looks just like Bill Mumy back in the original show!" Bill Mumy: "..." "You know that time loop thing we wanted? Lets get young Will to to talk with "old future Will!" Bill Mumy: "..." "Lets get some random actor to play Old Bill Mumy!" Bill Mumy: "..." I liked the movie, as I pretty much like most sci-fi movies, but this was a glaring oversite. I don't know if Bill Mumy was even approached or not, but its a glaring oversight considering basically everyone else made an appearance. Glad he got to be in the Netflix series...
I think that Voyager more than any other series is representative of Wagon Train. In that they have a clear destination but every single week you get a new experience with new characters. Even though it is not the best Star Trek series.
I read Hornblower as a youth because of the Star Trek connection but I reread the series as an adult a number of years ago. Hornblower reads as possibly on the autism spectrum. He’s decisions are always technically flawless, but he’s riddled with self-doubt.
Well said. I've always thought of TOS as the Forbidden Planet crew mashed up with the Twilight Zone/Outer Limits format to yield a Planet/Monster of the week style show. Most of Gene Roddenberry's episodes are like that. In Omega Glory the Enterprise visits a world with warring factions that -gasp- turns out to be an alternate Earth complete with Red Chinese and the good old US flag! But I still love it and I'm thrilled with Strange New Worlds.
I love learning history behind great art. I remember watching Forbidden Planet and going "Hey, this sure is like a bad, but amazingly well-produced, episode of Star trek. Like the TNG movies that aren't First contact"
Glad to hear someone explain that "Wagon Train" specifically referred to the old TV series. It seemed to get lost on the recap of Forbidden Planet though.
Definitely was surprised by such a deep dive into Forbidden Planet. Its influence on Star Trek has long been known, but there certainly are lots of subtle details you can easily miss. I had expected just 5 minutes of coverage but greatly appreciated your spending a lot more time on FB. It's such a great movie in so many respects. I also enjoyed your tie-ins to other series in the franchise. I learned a lot!
As my wiki entry and other online sources will reveal I was Gene Roddenberry's PA on several non-ST projects during the making of ST:OS. We discussed many things, and you are pretty much right, it was Forbidden Planet meets Wagon Train both of which he loved. Also inspired by EE Smith's Galactic Patrol and Gene's childhood reading - and collecting - of sf mag zines, which he continued to read till the ST days. And he hoped some episodes would capture the pointed stories found on Twilight Zone and the best sf mags.
"Forbidden Planet" is still my favorite classic sci-fi film, even acknowledging its... ahem... outdated gender representations. And yes, Robby the Robot is boss.
The gender representation was outdated and somewhat cringe but still pretty innocent considering the time it came out. Surprisingly a lot of it still holds up and I still love the UFO noises played on the theramin.
Interesting note: "Forbidden Planet" got a homage reference in the "Firefly" sequel/continuation film, "Serenity"; the Alliance ship that crashed on Planet Miranda was C57D.
'Forbidden Planet', absolutely. The early scenes especially, when they have just arrived onplanet and are checking things out and basically setting up - the tech may be different ,but the dialogue is similar and the basic 'vibe" is exactly the same.
We have flyovers here in the US too. But they are much crazier than a simple overpass or over crossing. Not as crazy as a clover leaf, but they "fly" rather than simply cross. And the yellow light has been officially called amber for a long time. Places that have proper roundabouts, like the town I live in, actually call them roundabouts rather than traffic circles. While blinker is the common term, they really are called turn signals or turn indicator lights.
Pieces of Nomad were used in the Romulan cloaking device in TOS: "The Enterprise Incident", kinda funny they were together. Parts of the cloaking device were used on Flint's M-4 robot in TOS: "Requiem for Methuselah" and atop Sargon's receptacle in: "Return to Tomorrow". It would be funny if those were all in a storage room together, too!
Gene Roddenberry got the ideas from a think tank in DC, but he says the only thing he generally came up with on his own was the transporter. But this is the conspiracy theory based origin. Young Spock is played by Ethan Peck. Peck is Gregory Peck’s grandson.
Not to mention the TV series, The Man from U.N.C.L.E. which premiered in '64 and was produced by Norman Felton. Felton and Roddenberry were friends and had worked together in the early '60s. The concept of U.N.C.L.E. was that there was an intentional security agency for the protection of all nations (planets) made of agents from every nation on earth. The two main protagonists were Napoleon Solo and Illya Kuryakin an American and Russian (alien) working to gather to stabilize political and legal order. Their adventures took them to different counties and cultures all over the world (galaxy). Solo was the womanizing devil may care agent while Illya was the reserved, studious and emotionally restrained partner. Sound familiar? Illya's Russian character was so popular with fans his influence on the inclusion of Chekov, sporting the same haircut, is hard to miss. The agents also carried guns that had sleep dart (stun) abilities as well as carrying communicators the size of a cigarette case. Also TMFU was the first time Shatner and Nimoy would work together appearing in the episode "The Strigas Affair". Another odd connection is that the special guns carried by the UNCLE agents were designed by same man who designed the phaser rifle from the pilot. Oh yeah, the secret entrance to UNCLE HQ in New York was through a tailor shop named Del Floria's, this tailor shop is also seen on the promenade of the Deep Space Nine station.
"beam me up Scotty" became popularized in the late 80's/early 90's by stand-up comedians of the time as a phrase to accentuate part of their performance when describing something "way out there" afterwhich they would then say something along the lines of "yeah like beam me up Scotty" and that usage of the phrase by comedians who's performances were being seen via cable TV all over the nation got engrained in the viewers/audiences heads as being something from Star Trek even though the phrase never did occur in Star Trek up to that point. It was just a metaphor that comedians were using at the time and it stuck.
Awesome narration and information. Thank you! Star Trek teaches us many things, as the series is marinated with moral and philosophical values. For example, in THE CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER, Kirk: Are you a machine or being? The Guardian: I am both, and neither. This, to me, already has a profound implication of being one's own and not having to fall into the 'one of us or one of them' mindset, i.e. no need to belong to any side, party, or faction. These two great dialogue lines always ring vividly in my heart.
Deforest Kelly as Dr McCoy was no stranger to the westerns appearing in a number of them before Trek, and funny thing is that in trek episode Spectre of the gun he was as one of the Clantons, and in the Lancaster, Douglas, film Gunfight At The Ok Corral he played one of Wyatt Earps brothers, and both Shatner and Nimoy appeared in westerns too
“Gene Roddenberry just made it all up”
That’s the thing that I think most fans (myself included) need to remember. At the end of the day, Captain Kirk is just some guy that only exists in someone else’s head. We as fans tend to take Trek far too seriously. Rather than wasting so much time and effort concerning ourselves with canon and internal consistency, we should instead apply that effort into taking what Star Trek teaches us (or at least tries to teach) and applying it to real life. Society would probably be a lot better for everyone if Trekkies put at least as much effort into inspiring positive societal change as we put into complaining about how nuTrek violates canon.
Yeah many treat "Gene's" vision the same way as the State's constitution (IE divinely inspired) and are probably waiting for the day they are told that it's all real, like that character in Galaxy Quest.
funny thing I heard, actually: some people are talking about NuTrek breaking canon goes against Gene's vision, but yet it was Gene who also (more or less) said that he doesn't really care about long term canon.
@@Faction.Paradox Would that really be so bad? If all that positive societal change turned out to be inspired by the thing commonly referred to as "Gene's vision"?
@@mr.werb15md90 I don't see the connection. Unless you think that whenever anyone invokes "Gene's vision" they're suggesting a slavish adherence to every preference, opinion and offhand remark he's ever made. I think vision is much broader and isn't curtailed by those smaller things, nor is it solely the legacy of only one man. That said, if we're talking about that more comprehensive sense of vision, it isn't necessarily violated by just any breaking from established cannon, but only those instances that are incompatible with that vision.
@@mr.werb15md90 - agreed; people obsessed about Gene’s “purity of vision” need to look up the story of the IDIC medallion:
m.imdb.com/title/tt0708433/trivia/?ref_=tt_ql_trv
In a nutshell, it was a shill for Roddenberry to make some extra cash. 😄
Came for the Forbidden Planet love, stayed for the Wagon Train slander and C-3PO abuse.
Same. (Looks at C3PO) F**K YOU!
Hahahahaha!
And R2D2 being so obscene! They had to bleep everything he said!!
@@jerryjohnson8485You'd be obscene too if you looked like a mobile fire hydrant.
@@kirbyculp3449 Hey my dog resembles that remark.
McCoy: "Don't you sometimes wonder if we're on some kind of wagon train to the stars, Jim?"
Kirk: "Wagon train, Bones?"
Spock: "Consitering technological advancements, such a trip would be highly illogical."
McCoy was supposed to be Frank McClowery in the ST episode “Shadow of the Gun” and I believe DeForesf Kelly play Frank McClowery in a Gunfight at the OK Corral movie from the late 50s.
The Battlestar Galactica series of the late 1970s really was almost a literal wagon train. Various ships packed with colonists headed to a specific destination being Earth.
A rag-tag, fugitive fleet ...🛸🛸
Oh yeah...
With Lorne Greene as the major star. An actor well known for the actual Western, "Bonanza."
Plus a sprinkling of Mormon religious ideas.
Oh, frack.
I had no idea Erica Ortegas was named after a character from the original pitch. That's so cool
Do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of "Inside Star Trek: The Real Story," by Herb Solow and Bob Justman. A facsimile of the "Star Trek Is..." pitch is reprinted in full. The entire book is an absolute treasure trove.
I remember in the UK, when Voyager was announced, people kept saying (tongue in cheek) that a series about a spaceship trapped years from Earth with a hologram who's a jerk sounds like a rip-off of Red Dwarf.
Oh yes
(And lovely to see you over here Jago! I've a happy that one of my Fav Transport TH-camrs is also a Star Trek and Steve Shives fan!)
If only they could’ve turned Rimmer off like the doc in the early seasons 😅
Except...
...I don't recall Tom Paris ever calling Doc "Smeg-head."
But I do remember Janeway telling the away team to "get out there and twat it".
@@willmfrank If Paris *had* called Doc "Smeghead", that would have made one episode worth watching.
Fun fact: Morbius in _Forbidden Planet_ is the orignator of the phrase "it's morbin' time!"
I think... he kind of is, in an ultimate sense. I'm guessing the various other characters named Morbius (as opposed to Möbius/Moebius, which is something else entirely) got the name from this guy. The Marvel Morbius, and the Doctor Who character as well.
He was good, but he really phoned it in for the Mighty Morbin Power Robbies spin-off series.
I much preferred Walter Pigeon's Morbius over Jared Leto's. He didn't even let his Id run wild in real life.
You’re amazing. I hate you😀
Fuck off mate, "it'e morbin time" is from Hamlet Act 4 Scene 20 and you know it
"Ward Bond left the show after his death..." That'll do it.
The Gregory Peck impression made me giggle. 😍
A Klingon centred film based on "Coriolanus" could be fun.
I became friends with Dorothy (DC) Fontana later in her life after she wrote an episode of the LONESOME DOVE TV series I was writing for. She was great - she created much of Spock's backstory and wrote several episodes. She was a pioneer among female TV writers of the 60s. Roddenberry has often been sited for taking too much credit for the creativity of others.
I have often said that Roddenberry laid the foundation, but other people built the house... And Dorothy Fontana made that house a home.
@@willmfrank so well said - and so true! I think he has been credited with more than his share of what TREK grew into, but he had the foresight to hire Dorothy and many other great writers and actors that made it a phenomenon. His core premise of a utopian vision of the future was important at that time of the 60s - the Cold War, racial and civic unrest - we needed that ray of hope.
Leigh Brackett would have written some awesome episodes!
I would think that everyone can agree that Roddenberry was really good at two things - 1. hiring talented and creative writers/production staff, and 2. taking as much credit for their output as possible.
A script writer who can’t spell cited?????
I love Forbidden Planet. It's basically Shakespear's The Tempest & ST definitely had its Shakespearean elements. ( Plus in Spock's Brain they borrow directly from Forbidden Planet with the helmets that make you smart that enable McCoy to do the surgery that reconnects Spock's brain)
@yensid4294 Yes...''Forbidden Planet'' was based loosely on William Shakespeare's play "The.Tempest". Much in the way that ''The Lion King'' was based loosely on William Shakespeare's tragedy play ''Hamlet''.
Dr. Morbius (Prospero), Altaira (Miranda), Leslie Nielsen's character John Adams (Ferdinand), The Monster (Caliban), Robby the Robot (Ariel).
" Brain! Brain! What is Brain???"
From the Space lady with nice Cha-Chas.
Most Star Trek stories are variations of Shakespeare's plays. How do you think Patric Stewart got the job? As a Shakespearian Actor, when he interviewed for the part, he pointed out that most of the scripts are based on one or more of Shakespeare's plays. The rest is history.
"...left the show following his death," Gracie? If my mouth hadn't been empty at the time, you certainly would have gotten a spit-take out of me. Your delivery was positively arid. Best. Leo.
Forbidden Planet was also a huge visual reference for the production design of Star Trek. The Enterprise is basically the FP saucer with extra bits added on, and the "stasis beams" the crew uses to wait out long space voyages is visually almost identical to the Star Trek transporters.
Rather as famous as the Wagon Train to the stars line, Forbidden Planet was sometimes referred to as The Tempest in space. The producers made no bones about it as there were no worries about copyright on a centuries old work. On the contrary, there was some hope of increasing the audience by virtue of its impeccable source material. You know, we’re not junk, Mom. We’re based on Shakespeare.
AKA steal from the best, I always say.
Steal from the best, that's what Shakespeare did! 😀
@@AaronLitz and Shakespeare was the junk of his own day! Low brow populist media.
Yeah, I came to kind of say this, too! I'm not just simple, I'm unoriginal! :(
"Forbidden Planet -- NO!" Laughed way too hard at this. Great video, very informative, but the Forbidden Planet recap is fuckin' gold.
Totally! :)
"Groin meltingly horny" is a phrase that I am going to use at every available opportunity 😂
"Horny enough to fuck a robot" is another good one.
Brilliant...universal concepts
I'd forgotten about those sputnik light fixtures in Forbidden Planet. My parents had one hanging over the dining room table. And it occurs to me that, born in 57, I was influenced by Star Trek's influences too growing up, I was primed for a show like it when it premiered. Then Star Trek itself began influencing me, and it got me to start exploring literary sci-fi. It became a core part of who I am.
Same here, though I didn't get into it until 1975, at age 12. It also kicked my interest in astronomy from idling into reading every astronomy book I could get my hands on. Of course this made me realize later just how much science Star Trek got _wrong_ but I forgive them for the things that weren't known at that time. I wouldn't nowadays (ie. setting a story on a planet orbiting Vega, which doesn't even have stable planets yet, being such a young star).
Another influence is that many of the writers and production staff of the orignal show had familiarity with serving on a US Navy ship from WW2. If not directly from serving in the war, then from family members who did.
Paramount+ should follow up its limited series “The Offer” - which is about the making of “The Godfather” - with a series on the creation of “Star Trek.” Anson Mount as Jeffrey Hunter, Paul Wesley as William Shatner, Ethan Peck as Leonard Nimoy, Rebecca Romijn as Majel Barrett, Celia Rose Gooding as Nichelle Nichols. There's plenty of drama to be explored in Roddenberry's “Wagon Train to the stars” pitch and his battles with the network over a female Number One and the “demonic” looking science officer; the unprecedented second pilot and more network battles over the diversity represented by a Black woman on the bridge; Martin Luther King Jr. encouraging Nichols not to quit; Roddenberry's efforts to disguise contemporary social commentary as science fiction; maybe an episode about Harlan Ellison's grudge over “City on the Edge of Forever.” And so on. I've been enjoying “The Offer,” and think there's an equal amount of material for a series in that mold about Trek. Giovanni Ribisi impressed me with his performance as Joe Columbo. I could see him as Gene Roddenberry. D.C. Fontana should also be represented. And Lucille Ball - played by Nicole Kidman? I thought she was good in “Being the Ricardos.” Maybe even fans such as Bjo Trimble could make an appearance.
That would be an awesome movie.
@@emsleywyatt3400 No.
@@emsleywyatt3400
If we can get him back.
If I could use Carl the Talking Time Donut to go back a few years, I'd get Jonathan Frakes to play Gene Roddenberry, Grant Imahara to play Wah Chang, and Armin Shimerman to play Oscar Katz.
Hornblower was based on Nelson. C.S. Forester even said in an interview that he had to tone down some of Nelson's exploits because no one would believe a person could've accomplished that. I have heard what you say in this video before, but you put it together nicely. Thank you
Much more based on Thomas Cochrane, who gets a name check in the Hornblower story , Flying Colours
And then we had Admiral Nelson on VTTBOTS. Irwin Allen.
@@alanpennie8013 Frederick Marryat, who had been a midshipman under Lord Cochrane in the Napoleonic wars, started the Swashbuckling Sea Captain genre. After an exemplary naval career -- reaching Post Captain, Marryat resigned from the Royal Navy and turned to writing in the 1830s. He wrote from his experiences and got a lot of source material from the Naval Gazette. C S Forester raided the Gazette for many of his plots, reviving the genre. Patrick O'Brian's Lucky Jack Aubrey is based on Cochrane, and his plots are also out of the Gazette, with some period Jane Austin dialog added. Alexander Kent's Bolitho is Cochrane-like, but Cornish, not Scottish. Dudley Pope's Ramage is a Lord, like Cochrane, too.
So Horatio Hornblower was the original Mary Sue.
William Shatner did nothing.
You forgot to mention Gene Roddenberry's first show, "The Lieutenant." It featured many actors who Roddenberry would later call back and hire to appear on Star Trek, like Lenny Nimoy, Nichelle Nichols, Walter Koening and Majel Barrett, just to name a few. (Indeed, I believe it's where Barrett and Roddenberry met.) It wasn't exactly an inspiration for an individual Star Trek scripts, but it did establish Roddenberry as a showrunner. In other words, if there had been no "The Lieutenant," there would never have been a "Star Trek."
Gene Roddenberry was also a writer on a short-lived series "West Point Story" that featured many of the same actors. It's on DVD.
What about Gary Lockwood who was in the show "The Lieutenant". He was in the Star Trek series as a character given the talent of being able to read and absorb material so much faster than normal human beings, along with Sally Kellerman in that episode.
@@williambilyeu9801Got a set myself.
I still think a literal Wagon Trail to the Stars would be a good series, built around an early colony ship when they could only go warp 2 or 3.
They did this ,,Battlestar Galactica
Starlost (canada). Generation ship with multiple floors, each floor a different culture, unaware they are on a star ship, with the starring crew trying to find the control room. th-cam.com/video/l_Kv0VlJvNQ/w-d-xo.html
It was called FIREFLY.........................
A convoy of them, headed for planet Promised Land with a really annoying semi-comedy-relief preacher on board, always trying to ferment something.
...And when one of the ships went off course we ended up with "The Starlost."
Morbius leaned forward and fitted the three extensions of the Krell learning device to his head. "Gentleman," he said to the gathered visitors. "It's Morbin' time."
"When Ward Bond left the show, following his death..." Steve, you always have that one hilarious throw-away line!
I enjoyed the love thrown at Robbie.
I also enjoyed the vitriol thrown at 3PCO, too.
I love Robbie, but I also love Threepio.
And of course, everyone knows that Gregory Peck's grandson Ethan is playing Spock on SNW & Discovery.
Lucille Ball loves Science Fiction, she read the script. Fell in love with whole idea. After the origional piolet tanked. Lucille, personally stepped in and funded more shows. Which allowed Star Trek to continue on.
Yet no one gives Lucille Ball either a mention as well as the credit. That she rightfully deserves!!
with a killer character to play and great makeup job to hide her appearance some, she could have easily been one of the great villains in star trek back in the day-
Only two weeks after the first Star Trek Episode the Series Raumschiff Orion started in Germany. It's also a Sci-Fi Story about a Space ship in a Utopia without nations and the discovery of Space
I've seen it here on youTube. It's as imaginative and made use of commonplace things to create a fascinating world.;) Let's show, not just tell: th-cam.com/video/3TMimV9reNs/w-d-xo.html
Those Germans, always looking for more raum to leben
I seem to recall that Roddenberry and Coon were colloquially referred to as Star Trek's "Dominant Genes".
Great.
I'd have been sad if no one had come up with such a joke.
@@alanpennie8013 David Gerrold came up with the original version of that joke in either "The Trouble with Tribbles"(the book, not the episode) or "The World of Star Trek." I forget which.
"Did they plan this mission on the back of a Taco Bell receipt?" Actually, since Taco Bell won the Franchise Wars, they stopped issuing receipts. Just figured I should mention it.
Since they won the franchise wars we all earn Taco Bell scrip.
Dave Bell was a Marine cook in the South Pacific.
I’d heard the expression “Wagon Train To The Stars” before, but never knew it was an actual program until now. It was well before my time, and never really came up. The similarities and differences make sense, as does Hornblower.
One important element, the confidant, evolved as time went on. For Pike it was Dr. Philip Boyce, with a Martini, and friendly advice from an outside command structure view. For Kirk it was Dr. Elizabeth Deihner, the voice of descent, the Devils Advocate, who questioned Kirks authority. Not for the purpose elf undermining, but to keep his intentions honest.
And then came McCoy, who did a little of both. Even to Spock, when he’d get a little too smug for his ears. More so, he broke up the buddy cop/ethnic sidekick formula. Green Hornet had Kato, Lone Ranger had Tonto, and so on. Like them, Kirk and Spock would go somewhere, encounter a problem, solve said problem, and ride off within the allotted time to the next adventure. But McCoy would challenge them, and the audience, as to weather they were in the right. However seemingly benevolent. Trek II has a scene regarding Genesis that exemplifies this.
Something else that may have inspired Roddenberry was his time as a Military Pilot, in regards to the races and political and military structures encountered. The Federation being the Allies, or the U.N. Vulcans and Romulans like North and South Koreans, or Tibet and Communist China. Klingons definitely Cold War Russia. It could even be argued Cardassians and Bajorans started as Natzis and Jews. Not a perfect theory, but something to think about.
One aside. For those who may not know, Sally Kellerman (Dr. Deihner) and Laurel Goodwin ( Yeoman J.M. Colt), passed away around March of this year within a few weeks of one another. Both were in the pilots, and Goodwin is said to have been the last living cast member from the original pilot.
And finally, spin-off? I see what you did there! Just don’t go gettin all smug in YOUR ears….
Huge, huge props for the Forbidden Planet deep dive.
However, in his dissing of the B9 Robot from Lost In Space, and his general dislke for anything other than Forbidden Planet, Mr. Shives forgot to mention the Lost In Space\Forbidden Planet tie-in. Both Robby AND B9 were created by Robert Kinoshita, as were the C57D and Jupiter 2 ship concepts. And he forgot that Robby was in Season One of Lost In Space in "War Of The Robots" which the B9 actually wins. Would have been nice if these factoids were mentioned, but better luck next time, right? :-)
"Beep chair fate" I vote this to be the next term added to TV Tropes
As an avid troper, I endorse this notion.
"Left the show following his death" implies Ward Bond might have filmed a few episodes Weekend at Bernie's style before the crew discovered his demise?
You have to admit that death is an excellent reason for quitting a long - running TV show.
I've been enjoying the British children's Sci Fi show "Space Patrol" for years. This was shown years before Star Trek, and has concept after concept similar to Star Trek. Logical Venusians with pointed ears, Husky is a "Bones" type character with a gruff voice. Many of the story lines are similar to Star Trek story lines. They had transporters, and episode where time was sped up for individuals. where they moved faster and the people around them seemed to stand still, having their voices sound like high pitched whines. There were the sliding doorways. It seemed to me that most of Space Patrol concepts were directly lifted and used in Star Trek. You will see many such similarities if you watch the old shows.
So well done! Very entertaining and accurate! However, while you glossed over the "Shakesperian" influence, you could have mentioned that just as Star Trek is "Wagon Train in space", Forbidden Planet is "The Tempest in space"! Just look at the direct parallels: Altaira/Miranda, Prospero/Morbius, Robby/Ariel, and of course The Id monster/Caliban!
I think when talking about the origins of Star Trek, you should also mention the works of EE Doc Smith, both the "Lensmen" series and "The Skylark of Space" as a major influence.
Congratulations! After over 65 years, you just gave hands down thee BEST review and descriptive of Robby the Robot. Spot on brilliant!
Another interesting fact, involves the character of Scotty. When I was 6 or 7, I was already reading at an 8th-grade level. That was around 1961-62. Some of the young-adult fiction was about the adventures of a crew aboard a "Liberty Ship" (WWII freighter). The chief engineer on that freighter was named "Scotty" (in books written in the 1940's). Toward the end of 1962, "Fireball XL5" hit Saturday morning cartoons. In this series, the chief engineer of the base, "Space City", was also called Scotty. By the time Star Trek came out, when I was in the 6th Grade, the Scotty-engineer character seemed cliche.
By the way, if anyone knows the name of that series of young-adult short stories, the ones involving the Liberty Ship, I would be interested in knowing. My memories of those have faded, and I only recall fragments.
One other item: The plot of the episode, "Balance of Terror", was "borrowed" from the WWII movie, "The Enemy Below"---about an American destroyer vs a German U-boat. The scripts are virtually identical.
I may be a Sci-Fi fan because of Fireball XL5 (it was being shown while I was 4-6 years old). I either became imprinted, or I loved it, because I was a budding Sci-Fi fan! 🛸👽 🚀🧑🚀
Also, the Gold Key comic book "Space Family Robinson," which served as the inspiration for "Lost in Space," had a B-series about a space adventurer named Rex Venture. His sidekick was named Scotty McCay.
The connection wasn`t direct as both were based on the old book Swiss Family Robinson by Johann David Wyss written way back in 1812 and in turn inspired by Robinson Crusoe. In fact, the original name for the TV series was supposed to be "Space Family Robinson" then somebody noticed that there was a comic series already using the name. So they changed it to "Lost in Space" to avoid a lawsuit.
I forget the character’s name, but the ship’s engineer on “Space Angel” had a Scottish accent.
@@willmfrank "Scotty McCoy?" There's a slashfic waiting to happen...
"Ward Bond... left the show following his death..." Ha!
Another brilliant video, Steve! Thanks!
Your Gregory Peck dipped a bit too low and landed in Sam the Eagle territory 😄
''Forbidden Planet'' 1956 is a sci fi classic. It served as a inspiration for both (Star Trek and Star Wars).
Fantastic discussion! Awesome review of Forbidden Planet…my favourite early sci-fi film. Also a huge influence on Babylon 5
I DID hear someone standing in line at the DMV the other day, worrying about overloading their positronic relay.
Reconfiguring the power couplings seems to work for me. 😎
Steve just translated 90% of R2-D2's lines when he yelled "FUCK YOU!" at C-3PO.
Only 90%? I'm prepared to believe that at least half the stuff R2-D2 was saying to Luke when C-3PO wasn't even in sight was nothing more than obscene venting *about* C-3PO
Threepio and Artoo are best friends.
Of *course* they bitch about each other (we even understand Threepio’s side of it).
Star Trek: Universal Translator.
Star Wars: C3PO. I've said enough!
Woo hoo! Star Trek was pitched on my second birthday. What a lovely, thoughtful present, Mr Roddenberry.
Actually Rodenberry he wrote the pilot. The other person we can credit for this series is Lucille Ball. She was the CEO of Desilu studios. Lucy loved the 1st pilot and made a 2nd pilot. So even though the executives of all the other studios thought it sucked, it got a time slot on NBC anyway.
Forbidden Planet is my favorite movie.
Star Trek's The Cage is my favorite episode.
You just can't copy those masterpieces.
Great show! ❤
Maybe I missed it and you mentioned it, Gregory Peck who played Horatio Hornblower is Ethan Peck's grandfather.
Oh wow, I did not know that! (It’s such a common last name)
@@TheLisa-Al-Gaib explains where Ethan got that deep voice from, perfect for playing Spock.
Excellent summary, Steve. Thank you. You connected a whole suite of dots between Forbidden Planet and The Cage. It's astounding how many dots I am now able to connect. Vena and Morbeous daughter look quite similar, for starters.
Thank you immensely for mentioning Forbidden Planet. It was my all time favorite Sci-Fi film from the 1950's especially for the Robot "Robbie"
which captured my imagination of a 6 or 7 year old viewer, with my Dad buying me a reproduction of a Robbie Robot from his business trip to New York back then. Then my maternal Uncle Arthur who worked for an Import Company, bought me a near full sized Robbie which ran on two (2) C sized batteries logged into his legs. Both Robots were so cool from my youth. I will never forget them. Nor the film FORBIDDEN PLANET!
Don't forget about the widower and his young son at a remote outpost out on the edge of the frontier.
Yes, the premise of DS9, but also the premise of the Rifleman.
Pretty sure G.R.R. Martin has the original Robbie the Robot in one of his houses in Santa Fe. The man's living the dream...
GRRM is such an undiluted nerd.
It's very endearing.
You can find a lot of additional details in "Forbidden Planet" that influenced Star Trek.
For example when they jumped out of hyperspace one officer said "We’ll reach DC point at 1701 Skipper." Or the coulor codes of the departments (at the shoulder). Or the personal shields when jumping to normal space, that looked like the transporter, etc.
Did you know that the same guy designed Robbie and the robot from Lost in Space? Also, no-one will argue that C3P0 is even the best robot in Star Wars, let alone all of sci-fi.
I remember coming across a sci-fi anthology published sometime in the 1950s. As I was reading it, I began to recognize the plots to various episodes of Star Trek.
"The Cage" was one of them, the episode where Kirk fought the Gorn was one. I bet out of the ten or so stores, half of them ended up as Star Trek episodes.
“The Veldt” is basically a malfunctioning holodeck episode.
Yep. Gene Coon didn't come up with "Arena." He adapted it from Frederick Brown's short story of the same name. I've read the original one and there's a lot that's the same (though Kirk got to keep his clothes).
@@Shan_Dalamani Not to be the "Trek, Actually" guy or anything - that's Steve's job - but Gene Coon actually did come up with that script all on his own; at least he thought he did at first. It was only after the script had been approved and was in pre-production that the legal department pointed out its similarity. Coon had an "Oh my God!" moment, remembering that he'd read "Arena" years before. Star Trek contacted Brown, they did a deal, and the episode got made.
Ref: "Inside Star Trek: The Real Story," Herb Solow and Bob Justman, pages 206-7.
That's what I liked about TOS. Episodes were frequently based on or written by science fiction writers.
@@Shan_Dalamani yeah, I read (and liked) the Arena.
I've been saying the same thing about Forbidden Planet for years. Thanks for backing me up.
The book "The Making Of Star Trek" by Stephen Whitfield is a must read for any fan of the series, also for anyone who wants to learn how television shows were pitched and produced in those days.
Also on a side note, "The Cage", the original pilot (Trek had two, the first TV series to do so, the second was "Where No Man Has Gone Before") is, in my opinion, one of the best science fiction films ever made, period.
Has that book ever been reissued? I was fortunate enough to find a copy in a secondhand bookstore, and I agree, every Trekkie should read it.
ioan gruffudd starred in a really excellent adaptation of Hornblower in a series of movies, all easily found free on TH-cam. Aside from some characters expressing some prejudiced views of “the moors,” and the portrayal of them perhaps being biased itself (im not a historian, I can’t say), it really holds up well. The first few movies are the best ones. So, if you don’t mind watching historical fiction that glorifies a navy and empire that enforced colonialism, you can watch her majesty’s Royal Navy duke it out with France and Spain, and Hornblower rise to the occasion
I liked the books too a few years ago, but there is undeniable racism baked in to certain sections. And of course the whole thing glorified a colonial superpower
Great episode! I’m a huge fan of Forbidden Planet. Robby is definitely the best robot in all of cinema, at least while in Forbidden Planet… The Invisible Boy is a real stinker of a movie that even Robby couldn’t save.
Great video!!! Giving Robby the Robot his due, and putting Threepeo in his place made me all warm inside.
I wish for more of your vocal impressions in upcoming videos. Surprisingly great... I can't remember ever hearing that kind of stuff from you in previous Trek videos.
This video was a delight and I especially enjoyed your Forbidden Planet recap. Not to mention your Robbie the Robot stanning :p
I totally expected Data to show up a the end of the "Robbie the Robot" bit.
Indeed. Even taking as accepted that Robbie is the best robot out there, Data's gotta be pretty high in the rankings.
This is such an intriguing video topic, and it was an enjoyable journey into the origin of Star Trek!
I look forward to the next 'Trek Actually' essay, as ST:TNG is my favorite.
Roddenberry got the tree from someone else, but the ornaments he hung on it are his.
Happy Holidays!
🎅🎅🎅
Steve Shives. I haven't stumbled on your videos for quite a while. Glad you're still doing it. Keep it up, mate.
While rewatching the original series I remember thinking "This is like Twight Zone in space." After seeing Roddenberry's pitch it really feels like that.
Yeah...
Especially the episode "People Are Alike All Over."
His beep chair fate! Lol hilarious!!!!
I feel you have set a precedent here Steve. This now requires a new channel reviewing every 50’s and 60’s B movie ever released.
I love this. Forbidden Planet is one of my favorite movies. The link with Star Trek is obvious. Thank you!
The Gregory Peck impression was gold!
Steve Shives! You resemble Don Adams "GET SMART" with a beard. A movie critic in the 1980s defined, "The Wrath Of Khan" as, 'Hornblower vs Ahab'. Thank LUCY for it all. Red shirts with no red...plenty on "Forbidden Planet". My fav qoute from Star Trek TOS & a couple of times I have used it in real life, "YOU HAVE EARRRNED MY WRATH!" 'Squire Trelane'.
"Hornblower vs Ahab" Brilliant!
Gregory Peck just seems like a natural fit for Star Trek. Your impression makes it seem like he could be a good Vulcan.
Sadly, Peck died almost 20 years ago, so I guess Steve's impression is the closest we'll get to Peck being in Star Trek.
Well, unless a child or, I guess, a grandchild of his got a role. Can you imagine?
Wouldn't that be something?😎
Ha ha. I was waiting for someone to call it
I guess it doesn't hurt that Peck's grandson, Ethan, is the current Spock in the new series.
Finally! Someone who appreciates Robbie as much as I do!
I’d love to see either specific Star Trek series inspiration, or if you want, different Star Trek writers inspiration. Both are fascinating concepts with tons of potential depth to them.
I don't have any sourcing, but this video or me wondering about DS9 myself. If I had to guess I'd say a film like Casablanca or a series like M*A*S*H would be strong contenders, as well as a lot of different movies and plays as inspiration for specific episodes.
@@chrisblake4198 TOS was "Wagon Train in outer space."
DS9 was "The Rifleman in outer space."
Don’t know how I missed this the first time around. It is one of your best.
Gene Roddenberry followed an ancient map of his father's to a secret temple under stone henge, there they found an old man who was turned out to be an old Gene who had travelled back in time. He had every episode memorised and dictated them to the his young self. What I'm saying is Star Treks creation is a boot strap paradox.
Thank you, Doctor.
... and his father had the map because... He's his own grandpa, he's his own grandpa...
Not gonna lie, I sat through the movie adaptation of Lost In Space back in the day just to hear the robot say "Danger, Will Robinson, danger!"
I loved the original show as a kid. It was on TV here in the late 80s, like so much older stuff like The Munsters, Batman, etc.
That is the best thing about the Lost in Space movie...!
"Hey! let's make a movie 'rebooting' Lost in Space! Also, lets ask some of the original cast members to appear!"
Bill Mumy: "..."
"Lets hire an actor who looks just like Bill Mumy back in the original show!"
Bill Mumy: "..."
"You know that time loop thing we wanted? Lets get young Will to to talk with "old future Will!"
Bill Mumy: "..."
"Lets get some random actor to play Old Bill Mumy!"
Bill Mumy: "..."
I liked the movie, as I pretty much like most sci-fi movies, but this was a glaring oversite. I don't know if Bill Mumy was even approached or not, but its a glaring oversight considering basically everyone else made an appearance. Glad he got to be in the Netflix series...
I think that Voyager more than any other series is representative of Wagon Train. In that they have a clear destination but every single week you get a new experience with new characters. Even though it is not the best Star Trek series.
It's my favorite, after TOS. Janeway isn't quite as arrogant as Picard and there's no Klingon Soap Opera like in TNG and DS9.
no. Voyager is Gilligan's island. Trapped far away from home, and every time an opportunity comes up someone ruins it.
For me DS9, & Voyager are the best Treks.
I read Hornblower as a youth because of the Star Trek connection but I reread the series as an adult a number of years ago. Hornblower reads as possibly on the autism spectrum. He’s decisions are always technically flawless, but he’s riddled with self-doubt.
He's a prole by birth, which doesn't help when he's mingling with aristos, and attempting to be a good husband to one of them.
"and Morbius is like... 'Hey. It's Morbin time!'"
"... when Ward Bond left the show following his death."
The only sensible career move given the circumstances, I think we can all agree.
Well back then at least, these days they would just cgi him in for a few seasons :D
Well said. I've always thought of TOS as the Forbidden Planet crew mashed up with the Twilight Zone/Outer Limits format to yield a Planet/Monster of the week style show. Most of Gene Roddenberry's episodes are like that. In Omega Glory the Enterprise visits a world with warring factions that -gasp- turns out to be an alternate Earth complete with Red Chinese and the good old US flag!
But I still love it and I'm thrilled with Strange New Worlds.
Your passion for Robby the Robot is adorable.
I love learning history behind great art. I remember watching Forbidden Planet and going "Hey, this sure is like a bad, but amazingly well-produced, episode of Star trek. Like the TNG movies that aren't First contact"
Glad to hear someone explain that "Wagon Train" specifically referred to the old TV series. It seemed to get lost on the recap of Forbidden Planet though.
OK, that Peck was unexpected and not half bad. Well done.
And ties in nicely with the much younger new Peck in SNW 😉 🖖
Bestest robot? Gort! He doesn't freeze when around dangerous weapons, but he's otherwise pretty obedient. Until we learn that he isn't.
Definitely was surprised by such a deep dive into Forbidden Planet. Its influence on Star Trek has long been known, but there certainly are lots of subtle details you can easily miss. I had expected just 5 minutes of coverage but greatly appreciated your spending a lot more time on FB. It's such a great movie in so many respects. I also enjoyed your tie-ins to other series in the franchise. I learned a lot!
As my wiki entry and other online sources will reveal I was Gene Roddenberry's PA on several non-ST projects during the making of ST:OS. We discussed many things, and you are pretty much right, it was Forbidden Planet meets Wagon Train both of which he loved. Also inspired by EE Smith's Galactic Patrol and Gene's childhood reading - and collecting - of sf mag zines, which he continued to read till the ST days. And he hoped some episodes would capture the pointed stories found on Twilight Zone and the best sf mags.
"Forbidden Planet" is still my favorite classic sci-fi film, even acknowledging its... ahem... outdated gender representations. And yes, Robby the Robot is boss.
Though he really hit his stride on Mork and Mindy.
The gender representation was outdated and somewhat cringe but still pretty innocent considering the time it came out. Surprisingly a lot of it still holds up and I still love the UFO noises played on the theramin.
"And yes, Robby the Robot is boss."
Didn't stop him from getting his ass kicked by B9 in the Lost In Space episode "War Of The Robots" though, ;-)
Interesting note: "Forbidden Planet" got a homage reference in the "Firefly" sequel/continuation film, "Serenity"; the Alliance ship that crashed on Planet Miranda was C57D.
'Forbidden Planet', absolutely. The early scenes especially, when they have just arrived onplanet and are checking things out and basically setting up - the tech may be different ,but the dialogue is similar and the basic 'vibe" is exactly the same.
We have flyovers here in the US too. But they are much crazier than a simple overpass or over crossing. Not as crazy as a clover leaf, but they "fly" rather than simply cross.
And the yellow light has been officially called amber for a long time.
Places that have proper roundabouts, like the town I live in, actually call them roundabouts rather than traffic circles.
While blinker is the common term, they really are called turn signals or turn indicator lights.
Pieces of Nomad were used in the Romulan cloaking device in TOS: "The Enterprise Incident", kinda funny they were together.
Parts of the cloaking device were used on Flint's M-4 robot in TOS: "Requiem for Methuselah" and atop Sargon's receptacle in: "Return to Tomorrow". It would be funny if those were all in a storage room together, too!
Gene Roddenberry got the ideas from a think tank in DC, but he says the only thing he generally came up with on his own was the transporter. But this is the conspiracy theory based origin. Young Spock is played by Ethan Peck. Peck is Gregory Peck’s grandson.
Not to mention the TV series, The Man from U.N.C.L.E. which premiered in '64 and was produced by Norman Felton. Felton and Roddenberry were friends and had worked together in the early '60s. The concept of U.N.C.L.E. was that there was an intentional security agency for the protection of all nations (planets) made of agents from every nation on earth. The two main protagonists were Napoleon Solo and Illya Kuryakin an American and Russian (alien) working to gather to stabilize political and legal order. Their adventures took them to different counties and cultures all over the world (galaxy). Solo was the womanizing devil may care agent while Illya was the reserved, studious and emotionally restrained partner. Sound familiar? Illya's Russian character was so popular with fans his influence on the inclusion of Chekov, sporting the same haircut, is hard to miss. The agents also carried guns that had sleep dart (stun) abilities as well as carrying communicators the size of a cigarette case. Also TMFU was the first time Shatner and Nimoy would work together appearing in the episode "The Strigas Affair". Another odd connection is that the special guns carried by the UNCLE agents were designed by same man who designed the phaser rifle from the pilot. Oh yeah, the secret entrance to UNCLE HQ in New York was through a tailor shop named Del Floria's, this tailor shop is also seen on the promenade of the Deep Space Nine station.
"beam me up Scotty" became popularized in the late 80's/early 90's by stand-up comedians of the time as a phrase to accentuate part of their performance when describing something "way out there" afterwhich they would then say something along the lines of "yeah like beam me up Scotty" and that usage of the phrase by comedians who's performances were being seen via cable TV all over the nation got engrained in the viewers/audiences heads as being something from Star Trek even though the phrase never did occur in Star Trek up to that point. It was just a metaphor that comedians were using at the time and it stuck.
“The Veldt” is basically just a malfunctioning holodeck episode.
Very true.
Boy this simulation is realistic!
That's it.
That's the entire story.
Awesome narration and information. Thank you!
Star Trek teaches us many things, as the series is marinated with moral and philosophical values. For example, in THE CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER,
Kirk: Are you a machine or being?
The Guardian: I am both, and neither.
This, to me, already has a profound implication of being one's own and not having to fall into the 'one of us or one of them' mindset, i.e. no need to belong to any side, party, or faction. These two great dialogue lines always ring vividly in my heart.
Deforest Kelly as Dr McCoy was no stranger to the westerns appearing in a number of them before Trek, and funny thing is that in trek episode Spectre of the gun he was as one of the Clantons, and in the Lancaster, Douglas, film Gunfight At The Ok Corral he played one of Wyatt Earps brothers, and both Shatner and Nimoy appeared in westerns too