Apparently one of the few pieces where Bach indicates manual changes for the echo-type effects. Good tempo used here. Keeps the piece moving nicely and maintains the musical tension. Lovely resolution in the majestic fugue which follows this piece, which needs a broad and dignifed reading. The fugue stands playing on its own quite well. Wonderful stuff! You are so kind to us, toxiconegro!
schöne aufnahme :) zum glück nicht ganz so schnell wie die anderen videos von diesen´m wirklich wunderschönen stück hier auf youtube wirklich toll ! :D
well the trill there is optional,yes, but was most likely put in by the editor cause that is what they believe would sound right. probably best to look at the original copy and judge on the trill. but its perfectly ok to stop a trill short. personally i think stopping the trill before the alto part comes in is good and i like it over a straight note. u gotta remember, they did ornaments to fill in gaps or flourish the music and a straight note ontop usually is trilled unless it is a moving part
No need to argue any further, I know it's all about personal preference. Of course other voices are welcome, I'm curious what others think of this. I don't yet play this piece, but it's on my short list of pieces to learn, so I hopefully will soon get to see if I can do this trill all the way through, at full speed. It could be a challenge!
if u had a trill mordent on it, its the exact same thing as a trill but in baroque terms its can be interpreted differently as a short or long trill. and u would only trill of that note. if the composer wanted the trill to go longer, they most probably would put a trill extension on it for that reason. may be in romantic music u may be able to but they usually put the trill extension on the trill if they want it to go longer
Strange I heard another version with another organist, and there was an incomplete trill there also (at the same place in the piece). Here (indeed) at 1:30.
@ccoraxfan yea, well send me a link if you do it. im thinking myself to give it ago as well! ill laugh that when we try it out, u do the incomplete trill and i go with the straight note or the trill on the whole tie, lol! anyway gl with it! its a wonderful piece, but then, it is j.s.back we're talking about :P
The trill is in parentheses (tr) which suggests it's optional. Optional trills are generally written where doing a trill is difficult or considered undesirable by some people. Now if the trill wasn't supposed to go all the way across, why would it be optional? Anyway, I'd rather see the trill passed over if it can't be done all the way through, because it sounds incomplete otherwise. But to each his own!
@toxiconegro ja ich weiss ums richtige tempo kann man sich lange streiten :) ja es ist schade ,dass bach kaum tempi oder registrierungen angegeben hat und ich denke deshalb ist es so eine herausvorderung ,bach "richtig" zu interpretieren und ich denke das ist vor alem geschmacks/ansichtssache :D dir auch noch einen schönen sonntag^^
@toxiconegro Also wem das zu schnell ist, der sollte sich mal die Einspielung von Aarnoud de Groen anhören... DAS ist schnell, aber zugegebener Maßen nicht zwangsläufig schön ;)
not exactly i think, im sure that an tie is to hold the note of the value of the next one (like a slur) but doesn't mean to continue the ornaments etc. and well the alto part u can try in the left hand but it would be way to hard to do so and impractical and not stylistically correct.
at 1:30 theres a trill ppl saying that it should continue for the whole tied note. if u know music (as in music notation) join in the convo :P seems like u dont notice it do so adds proof to what im saying :P
n its up 2 the interpretation of the performer, i would interpreted that way as well or just put in a small trill for 3beats tbh.anyway a trill im sure doesnt have 2 go for the tied value.ive seen music that theres a trill on te first note and it is tied tho it didnt what the next note to be part of the trill.but anyway i hope its not the trill that is disregarding this performance cause this is probably one of the best performances(1 of my favs out there if it isnt)
was diese teilweise schwachsinnigen diskussionen zum tempo sollen....dieses tempo ist in ordnung, wenn auch das maximale, damit die klänge nicht zu stark ineinanderfließen, was natürlich auch von der raumakustik abhängt. interpretatorisch ist ein gut akzentuiertes spiel viel eher relevant...und was mich persönlich ankotzt, ist die tatsache, dass, aus welchem grunde auch immer, kein schw....z den 1. langen triller komplett ausspielt -als ob das zuviel verlangt wäre.
yea. but thats a pain to trill that long with the alto part going as well in the same hand. anyway the trill can just go for the note length, not the whole tie. anyway, maybe on bachs original manuscript he might have it like that cause thats nearly impossible to do
You don't have to do the middle voice with the same hand. You can use you right hand just for the trill, and use your left hand to do the rest. I wouldn't put it past Bach to write note combinations which would prompt other musicians to improve beyond what they thought they were capable of doing!
OH n gotta like how many comments we argued about a "incomplete" trill :P wanna keep going :P lol but gotta say u have some good points but i think im still right (not saying i could be tho) anyone wanna jump in?
Apparently one of the few pieces where Bach indicates manual changes for the echo-type effects. Good tempo used here. Keeps the piece moving nicely and maintains the musical tension. Lovely resolution in the majestic fugue which follows this piece, which needs a broad and dignifed reading. The fugue stands playing on its own quite well. Wonderful stuff! You are so kind to us, toxiconegro!
I find it very refreshing to be able to finally look at the score while I'm listening to the music, where I can just sit back and relax.
a tip : you can watch movies at flixzone. Me and my gf have been using them for watching all kinds of movies these days.
@Jairo Kyng Definitely, I've been using flixzone} for months myself :)
@Jairo Kyng yup, been watching on Flixzone} for months myself :)
@Jairo Kyng yup, I've been using Flixzone} for years myself :)
Bach to najlepszy organista i wirtuoz wszech czasów
absolutely amazing! crisp sound, great organist, amazing pipe organ!
BWV 538 + 582+ 542 = nearest human being ever came close to perfection
not beethoven, not mozart, Only Bach is the greatest composer of all times of this Universe!
How right you are
I have Christopher Herick at home playing both 582 and 538
schöne aufnahme :) zum glück nicht ganz so schnell wie die anderen videos von diesen´m wirklich wunderschönen stück hier auf youtube wirklich toll ! :D
I like the Toccata in F more and I love BWV 549 but this is great also :)
This recording is actually a whole step up (E minor instead of D minor)
Which I like that tuning
well the trill there is optional,yes, but was most likely put in by the editor cause that is what they believe would sound right. probably best to look at the original copy and judge on the trill. but its perfectly ok to stop a trill short. personally i think stopping the trill before the alto part comes in is good and i like it over a straight note. u gotta remember, they did ornaments to fill in gaps or flourish the music and a straight note ontop usually is trilled unless it is a moving part
No need to argue any further, I know it's all about personal preference. Of course other voices are welcome, I'm curious what others think of this.
I don't yet play this piece, but it's on my short list of pieces to learn, so I hopefully will soon get to see if I can do this trill all the way through, at full speed. It could be a challenge!
if u had a trill mordent on it, its the exact same thing as a trill but in baroque terms its can be interpreted differently as a short or long trill. and u would only trill of that note. if the composer wanted the trill to go longer, they most probably would put a trill extension on it for that reason.
may be in romantic music u may be able to but they usually put the trill extension on the trill if they want it to go longer
ich mag bach gut gespielt :)
Strange I heard another version with another organist, and there was an incomplete trill there also (at the same place in the piece). Here (indeed) at 1:30.
@benz981 I was told that this is the way that many older organs were tuned.
@ccoraxfan yea, well send me a link if you do it. im thinking myself to give it ago as well! ill laugh that when we try it out, u do the incomplete trill and i go with the straight note or the trill on the whole tie, lol! anyway gl with it! its a wonderful piece, but then, it is j.s.back we're talking about :P
The trill is in parentheses (tr) which suggests it's optional. Optional trills are generally written where doing a trill is difficult or considered undesirable by some people. Now if the trill wasn't supposed to go all the way across, why would it be optional? Anyway, I'd rather see the trill passed over if it can't be done all the way through, because it sounds incomplete otherwise. But to each his own!
Oh, and doesn't a tie mean no change in the note unless specified? That would mean holding the trill as well for the duration of the tie.
this piece is almost intoxicating...
@toxiconegro ja ich weiss ums richtige tempo kann man sich lange streiten :) ja es ist schade ,dass bach kaum tempi oder registrierungen angegeben hat und ich denke deshalb ist es so eine herausvorderung ,bach "richtig" zu interpretieren und ich denke das ist vor alem geschmacks/ansichtssache :D dir auch noch einen schönen sonntag^^
J'aime toujours+++
@toxiconegro
Also wem das zu schnell ist, der sollte sich mal die Einspielung von Aarnoud de Groen anhören... DAS ist schnell, aber zugegebener Maßen nicht zwangsläufig schön ;)
Hope you do Pastorale in F major BWV590 too, soon!
ありがとうございます！押忍
There must be a god after all - and he begins with the letter B !
Who plays the piece?
not exactly i think, im sure that an tie is to hold the note of the value of the next one (like a slur) but doesn't mean to continue the ornaments etc. and well the alto part u can try in the left hand but it would be way to hard to do so and impractical and not stylistically correct.
at 1:30 theres a trill ppl saying that it should continue for the whole tied note. if u know music (as in music notation) join in the convo :P seems like u dont notice it do so adds proof to what im saying :P
I don’t know how you could trill the soprano note and yet still execute the alto voice coming in underneath it, it sounds physically impossible to me
n its up 2 the interpretation of the performer, i would interpreted that way as well or just put in a small trill for 3beats tbh.anyway a trill im sure doesnt have 2 go for the tied value.ive seen music that theres a trill on te first note and it is tied tho it didnt what the next note to be part of the trill.but anyway i hope its not the trill that is disregarding this performance cause this is probably one of the best performances(1 of my favs out there if it isnt)
vous savez ce qui est magnifique ? un plien jeu comme ça avec un 32 pieds spitz prinzipal ou boudon
Exquisite. Hope you run into Fernando Germani. He's in heaven too. Sent with love and gratitude. CVD
Incomplete trill at 1:30...
was diese teilweise schwachsinnigen diskussionen zum tempo sollen....dieses tempo ist in ordnung, wenn auch das maximale, damit die klänge nicht zu stark ineinanderfließen, was natürlich auch von der raumakustik abhängt. interpretatorisch ist ein gut akzentuiertes spiel viel eher relevant...und was mich persönlich ankotzt, ist die tatsache, dass, aus welchem grunde auch immer, kein schw....z den 1. langen triller komplett ausspielt -als ob das zuviel verlangt wäre.
Ten people..ten people.
yea. but thats a pain to trill that long with the alto part going as well in the same hand. anyway the trill can just go for the note length, not the whole tie. anyway, maybe on bachs original manuscript he might have it like that cause thats nearly impossible to do
Ha...maybe Bach could do it.....😊
Isn't it little bit fast?
well that would explain why it's nicknamed "the Dorian" now wouldn't it
like an etude...
You don't have to do the middle voice with the same hand. You can use you right hand just for the trill, and use your left hand to do the rest.
I wouldn't put it past Bach to write note combinations which would prompt other musicians to improve beyond what they thought they were capable of doing!
OH n gotta like how many comments we argued about a "incomplete" trill :P wanna keep going :P lol but gotta say u have some good points but i think im still right (not saying i could be tho) anyone wanna jump in?
This is in the wrong key.
Well executed, however I prefer it played a bit slower.
Karl richter played this perfectly. Way better than this guy
+myothergem Pure subjective assessment.
Too fuckin' fast
Who plays the piece?