Become a certified Bro with the official Water Margin Summarised merchandise here: Get the T-shirt & merch for the series here: dstore-10.creator-spring.com/listing/All_Men_Are_Brothers?product=2 Black T-shirt option here: dstore-10.creator-spring.com/listing/all-men-are-brothers-b?product=2
Hi CJ, I can't find any eng sub for Dream of the Red Chamber. Would you be interested in making a series for that classic novel? Love your work, by the way ❤
This was brilliant and I noticed you have a Three Kingdoms synopsis as well. I hope you go on to cover Journey to the West & Dream of Red Mansions. Granted they are more valuable as cultural relics than historical fiction but it would be fantastic to have all 4 great novels.
As you ask, the idea that occurs to me is that rebelling against injustice and then submitting is contradictory. Song Jiang succeeded while he rebelled against injustice. His downfall came because he ultimately betrayed himself.
Now, all is left to do is a video showcasing a list of all the 108 heroes, with the name, the picture used in the video, and a brief summarization of their role. 😜
This passionate work deserves more views and credit. I have been a lifelong fan of Water Margin story, alongside with Sam Kok and Dream of the Red Chamber. Started devouring the translated, simplified novels during childhood and grew as a Suikoden fan until today. Always find it hard to see the ending where the heroes fell down one by one, but that made me remember forever about Water Margin. Thank you for your hard work! This makes me wanna play Bandit Kings again!
2:13:01 *Qin Min:* While Fighting Fang Jie, Fang's deputy Du Wei hurled his daggers at Qin Min. while he dodged them, Fang Jie seized the Oppertunity to spear him to death. *Dong Ping and Zhang Qing:* Dong Ping and Zhang Qing fight against Li Tianrun, despite Dong Ping being injured in the left arm by a projectile, He continued to fight Li. But he finally finds the wound unbearable and retreats to his ranks for treatment, leaving Zhang Qing to take over the fight. Zhang is killed when his spear gets stuck in a tree. Seeing that, Dong Ping charges forth and attempted to kill Li, Li Tianrun's comrade Zhang Tao sneaks up on him and slices him in two from behind. *Xu Ning and Hao Siwen:* Xu Ning and Hao Siwen face Fang's son Fang Tianding, When Hao Siwen is captured by the enemy, Xu Ning attempts to save him but is stroke by a Poisoned arrow in the neck, He dies from the wound soon after while Hao Siwen is beheaded and quartered by the enemy general Fang Tianding *Suo Chao and Deng Fei:* While fighting Shi Bao, Shi feigns defeat and lures Suo to chase him. Then suddenly turns back and kills Suo Chao who was caught off guard, Deng Fei Attempted to avenge hik but was immediatly sliced by Shi Bao *(Rip Suo Chao, he only had one apearance in this summarised series)* *Liu Tang:* Eager to score merit, he charged into the city upon noticing the gate's open. A beam is dropped on him when he gets past the gate, crushing him to death *Shi Jin, Chen Da, Yang Chun :* Pang Wanchun hits Shi Jin with an arrow in the face while the rest are fatally shot by Pang's archers In Yuling Pass *Mu Hong:* dies of illness in Hangzhou *Lei Heng:* slain by the enemy general Si Xingfan *Ruan Xiao'er:* Commits suicide after failing to complete his mission and almost getting captured by the enemy *Zhang Heng:* killed by a hail of arrows after failed sneak attempt *Ruan Xiaowu:* Killed by Fang la's premier Lou Minzhong *Zhang Shun:* Killed by Rain of arrows *Shi Xiu:* is shot dead in an ambush by the archers of Pang Wanchun. *Xie Zhen and Xie Bao:* While climbing a steap cliff, they were discovered by the enemy, Xie Zhen cuts the ropes of the hooks and falls to his death. Xie Bao is crushed to death by the boulders and other debris thrown down at him. *Xuan Zan:* he and the enemy general, Guo Shiguang slay each other *Peng Qi and Han Tao:* Killed by Zhang Jinden, Han tao charges foward but gets shot in the face first by Gao Keli's arrow then killed by Zhang Jinren *Shan Tinggui and Wei Dingguo:* fall in a pit then killed by soldiers waiting in ambush. *Ou Peng:* Gets shot by Pang Wanchun's arrows *Zhou Tong:* Killed by Li Tianrun after being caught by suprise *Ma Lin and Yan Shun:* Man Lin Killed by Shi Bao, and Yan shun Soon follow him after attempting to avenge him *Lu Fang:* while fighting Bai Qin, they eventually both fall off cliff to their deaths *Guo Sheng:* crushed to death by boulders rolled down by enemy soldiers *Bao Xu:* Sliced in two by... ding ding *Shi Bao!* *Kong Liang and Shi En:* Fall in a river and Drown *Xiang Chong and Li Gun:* Xiang Ching was Killed by Enemy General Zheng Biao, while Li Gun attempted to chase the Zheng, he accidently falls in a stream and is fatally shot by Zheng's arrows *Meng Kang:* Trapped by the enemy and blasted into bits by cannon. *Hou Jian and Duan Jingzhu:* drowns when his boat gets swept into the open sea by a storm. *Zheng Tianshou:* killed by the enemy's projectile *Tao Zongwang:* Killed by unknown Causes in battle of Runzhou *Gong Wang:* falls into a stream and is speared to death *Ding Desun:* bitten by a poisonous snake in a bush and dies *Cao Zheng:* is killed by a poisoned arrow. *Song Wan, Zou Yuan and Du Qian:* Song Wan fell from an arrow shot and rest were trampled to death by the enemy cavalry *Xue yong:* Fatally shot by arrows from enemy general Pang Wanchun *Tang Long:* Severely injured, soon succumbs to his wounds *Zhu Gui and Zhu Fu:* fall sick and die *Cai Fu and Li Li:* Both critically injured. Later die from their wounds. *Li Yun:* trampled to death by Wang Yin's horse. *Jiao Ting:* Killed by unknown causes in Battle of Runzhou *Shi Yong:* Killed by Wang Yin *Zhang Qing:* Killed by unknown causes in Battle of Shenzou *Yu Baosi and Sun Erniang:* Both slain by the enemy officer Du Wei. *Wang Dingliu:* killed by a poisoned arrow. *Bai Sheng:* dies of illness before Battle
Honestly, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the intended point, but if you look at the whole story in a complete vacuum, focusing on just the text while ignoring the cultural subtext, this is what I see: The 108 demons all have bad karma they have to work off in this life. Because of this, they all experience misfortune, but it also draws them together. Then, we have their destiny revealed: they have to atone, both literally and spiritually, by fighting against the external and internal threats to the Song empire. First, they fight the Khitans, Song Jiang's conviction is tested, and he decides to keep fighting for the Song empire. This was the right choice, and in line with their destiny, and as a result, they absolutely dominate the campaign, without a single loss of a named character. Then, after the campaign, the corrupt ministers screw them over, and Song Jiang once again has to make a choice, and this time, he makes the wrong call. Thinking that the internal threat in the prophecy given by the heavenly lady was referring to Fang La's rebellion, he starts a campaign against him, while the real internal threat to the empire were the five corrupt officials all along. Since he failed his destiny, it cancels out his "plot armor", and he not only fails to receive any further guidance from said heavenly lady, but his 108 stars start falling like flies right after that, and while he wins the campaign, it still results in him being forced to commit suicide, destroying most of his achievements, and the Song empire would soon fall because of the corrupt officials anyway. This, in essence, makes it so that the downer ending was almost entirely the result of Song Jiang being too zealous in his loyalty to his country, and failing to act when he had the chance to fix the rot that had taken hold in the imperial palace. Again, I doubt this was the intended message, but it's certainly there on a textual level.
Them failing is the overall punishment for focusing on the wrong threat while the differing fates of each Star is a result of their own personal karma. Song Jiang made the wrong call and was forced to watch his comrades die one by one. Li Kui ended up being poisoned by his lord because of his uncontrollable nature. Lu Zhishen seems the closest to redemption with being a proper monk and followed the advice his master gave him properly. And he ends up having arguably the best ending out of all the outlaws by achieving enlightenment. At least that's what I got from the story going by OP's comment. They failed to save the Song Dynasty, their homeland, but at least some of them got away without harm. A true bittersweet ending.
Suikoden RPG series, the one that's heavily inspired by this 108 outlaws story... I wish there's a Suikoden game with much darker story like this, leading to defeat and ruin instead of victory in the end.
Absolutely fantastic and fun retelling!! I loved all your historical asides, this is also such a great resource for people who aren't familiar with historical context! Great animation too, you can see how much passion and work went into this project
My first exposure to Water Margin might probably be a JRPG video game, Genso Suikoden, though i'm not sure it is really following the original series other than the 108 stars of heroes theme.
What a luck I found your channel! It’s absolutely amazing. I’ve got interested in China history by playing a recently released game “Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty” which takes place in the romance of the three kingdoms period. And now I’m going through everything I can find on the history of China! Thanks for your hard work, it’s awesome.
22:17 actually the ancient taboos against dogs and pork is to do with the fact that dogs and pigs would feed on the dead in battlefields, so there was a danger of inadvertent cannibalism, according to the taboos.
Holy hell, all 108 characters… you’re passionate, and I love your Chinese pronunciation! Sounds like a native, unless you’re one 😂 And yes, Suikoden is also my first exposure of this Chinese literature haha.
There are many kung fu moves quoted in Water Margin, which were actually recorded in history and lasted until the Ming Dynasty. In the full text, only a few people used the movements of the Ming Dynasty, which is more realistic. Many others are much older.
I‘ve loved your summaries of “Romance of the Three Kingdoms” and “Water Margin.” Are you guys going to do “Journey to the West” and “Dream of the Red Chamber?”
I never finished this book when I first got it, as it was far darker and more gory than I anticipated, but it’s nice to know that my favorite character Lu Da (Zhishen), got a happy ending.
@@lerneanlion I don't think the whole Attack on Titans was ruined and I just did all this leave it just wasn't their conclusion and that's it ( the author isn't evil or greedy but I think he's slightly got a little overdramatic a bit) also don't be so down there and also wait for anime ending
Redemption based on merit is justice without mercy, it is vain. We are all have fallen, only God's justice and mercy can trully redeemed us. Thank you for the video, good work bro!
i really like chinese open ended cryptic messages as opposed to western direct messages. the chinese ones leave your mind to open up to all possibilities and then you decide which versions of the supposed meanings fit your situation. almost like meaningful but not too outlandish riddles of life.
Seeing the utter Moral Hypocrisy from these Violent Bandit "Heroes" reminds of a part I was rereading in Xiyouji (specifically Chapter 67) where Sun Wukong was inside Yellow Brow Great-King's Stomach & was mercilessly beating his insides to a pulp, Maitreya then told Wukong to stop & show the mercy to the Mo-King, but since Old Sun was (rightfully) bitter & angry, he kept doing it! After Maitreya told Wukong to spare Yellow Brow a 2nd Time, he then stopped & came out of Yellow Brows' Body! Shortly after, Wukong & Maitreya fly towards the False Thunderclap, the latter then opens the Doors and 100% allows Wukong to go in & slaughter 700 of Yellow Brows' Yaoguai Minions! Okay, I see... Let's spare the Jerk who stole YOUR Items (turning them into Weapons) and Impersonated Himself & his Place as Gautama & Thunderclap, just so him could trick people into going in & eat them! But we're NOT going to spare the Hundreds of Yaoguai who were simply just his minions, even after they were ready to leave & run knowing their evil leader was likely subdued! And Guanyin wasn't any better when she pulled that "merciful" spell to subdue Inspiration Great-King, aka her Red Goldfish turned Tyrant Yaoguai...
This was so interesting, thank you for all the work you put in it!! I watched this because I ordered the "Water Outlaws" book, a queer retelling of this story in which Lin Chong is a woman. Quite funny that at the end you mention about various adaptations / retelling, as clearly there are still new ones coming out regularly!
Watching the series made me wanted to know more about it by listening the Water Margin podcast, is actually quite good. I wonder if you could make a videogame based on Water Margin (I know there is some adaptations like Suikoden, which is getting a remaster this year) but here you could have different endings apart of the canon one depending the choices you made with what if scenarios, like for example what if Song Jian never went to defeat Fang Lang, or even never ask the goverment for amnesty and instead stayed in Liangshan. And many other key events that could have changed the fate of the outlaws, like for example making Wu Song never killed Pan Jinlian and her lover as a reference for the spin-off/non canonic story The Golden Lotus, or if Son Jiang never send his magical healer An Daoquan to the imperial cort so some of the heroes might have recover of their injuries and illnesses. Wouldn't that be fun?
Kinda ruins the ending which in my eyes is the thing that really ties water margin together. A leader of a group of degenerates still taking the noble path of honor even if everything and everyone around him is destroyed because of it.
Awesome cool history bro. Can you please update captions it's bit troublesome when it comes to names. Are there any plans for The Dream of Red Chamber?
I'm starting this series I'm a big fun and I've seen most of your videos fingers crossed for mongol empire someday. And also have you played total war 3 kingdoms and what are your thoughts on it?
You say that it is unlike Robin Hood and that is true for the modern depictions, but the original “robine hode” in the original medieval ballads was a very different character. It was more like The Sopranos or Breaking bad like you describe, where the protagonist is an amoral antihero who acts in their own self interest, but have a sympathetic aspect to them.
@thenoblepoptart I did a little bit of research & the Earliest Surviving Ballads of Robyn Hode (Robin Hood) seem to be... Robyn Hode & the Shryff off Notyngham, 1475 Robyn Hode & the Munke, 1450 Robyn Hode & the Potter, 1500 A Gest (Tale) of Robyn Hode, Text Fragments between 1493 - 1590 I am interested to see how Morally Grey; Middle English Robin Hood truly was! Especially compared to J.M. Barrie's Peter Pan (1902 - 1911), the Akan Abosom Trickster; Ananse (Spider) & Sun Wukong from the Original 1592 Xiyouji Novel...
@@londonjackson8986 Robin Hood and the monk is hilarious, robin beats the shit out of a clergyman and takes his money to pay off the debts of a friend of his…
@@thenoblepoptart Read a PDF of Robyn Hood and the Munke (with both Middle English & Modern English) & from what I can tell, neither Robyn nor his Men rob a clergyman! You're probably thinking of either Robyn Hode & the Potter or (more likely) The Gest of Robyn Hode! Now, as for Robyn Hode's Morality in the Medieval Ballads? Surprisingly... An Odd Mix of Lawful & Chaotic Neutral, kinda leaning towards Chaotic Good! Like despite being a seemingly Amoral Robber, Robyn in these Ballads (especially in The Gest) surprisingly DOES show to have at least SOME Specific Morals on WHO they rob or kill and WHO they don't (btw, it isn't "Steal from the Rich, Give to the Poor", that definitely came from much later Robin Hood mythos), + his clear veneration towards Virgin Mary, so Robyn is against harming Women! Now don't get me wrong, that doesn't necessarily mean Him, Litull John (Little John), Moch (Much) & the Rest of his Men are Good People, They're Obviously NOT! But in my eyes, they're on same scale or Morality as Sun Wukong was during Ch 14 - 56 of Xiyouji & definitely above Tricksters like Ananse, Reinardus (Reynard) & honestly, a Good Majority of 108 "Heroes" from Shuihu Zhuan!
@@londonjackson8986 his veneration of Mary seems to be a constant in all the stories, he’s pretty pious, but has that kind of anti-clerical bent as well. similar to the water margin crew like you said
As old stories do it has so many interresting characters that it might be worth an actual read. did read most of romance of the three kingdoms and loved most of it so i gather this one will be a gem too.
The best tv show based on Water Margin is the 1998 tv series made by CCTV. It gets really brutal toward a the end. You can watch it for free on TH-cam in 4K.
The four classics are all sort of aimed towards different demographics - Journey to the West is more of a whimsical childrens' story with magic and monsters - Water Margin is an episodic story for teenage boys who enjoy more violent content - Three Kingdoms is a political thriller for adults - Dream of the Red Chamber seems like a family drama that can be enjoyed by those who have mellowed out and desire a break from stories about adventure and epic battles
I mean....these are brilliant. The dynasty ones and the unifiers of Japan were great but after this and the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms one I sort of wish you did all the classical Chinese novels lol. And tale of genji, and journey to the west, and just do everything lmao
I have just finished reading this amazing novel and I have to make a correction. I read the Shapiro English translation of this novel. On the 2nd time that the mystic Lady of the 9th heaven appears to asong Jian, she tells him that he must leave quickly, that there is a limited number of times that celestials can appear to mortals and as such, this will be the final time they meet all he is still immortal, and that they shall meet again after he dies and comes back to heaven.
You know listening to this and knowing that it had three authors it feels like with the second & third it became a fan-fiction of the original author then a fan fiction of a fan fiction with the magic & divine intervention stuff added on. Maybe thats just me.
I've noticed in Wuxia Taoist are usually seen as sneaky/untrustworthy. Are the reasons for this or is it just whichever had more followers just like portraying the opposite as bad?
That's because there are more taoist charlatans out there peddling their magic in general. Reputable taoist schools like Wudang are usually quite respected.
Hey CJ. I have a question about the video Chinese and korean clans in ancient Japan. Was it the Han Chinese that migrated there or was it the mixed Biayue and Han people that came to japan
Good sir. For your efforts to adhere while also exposing is admirable. I prefer the WHOLE truth to ancient tales. Theyre gateways into the hearts and souls of man imho. By examining the greater zeitgeist/memetics we can kind of tell that humans have always been a bit of a mess, but still there are pieces of beauty amongst all the tragedy. I hope for humanity's expanditure and destiny. I have doubts, but sometimes souls like yourself help us all stay... grounded yet hopeful that kaybe our species WILL learn and become "better".
Become a certified Bro with the official Water Margin Summarised merchandise here:
Get the T-shirt & merch for the series here:
dstore-10.creator-spring.com/listing/All_Men_Are_Brothers?product=2
Black T-shirt option here:
dstore-10.creator-spring.com/listing/all-men-are-brothers-b?product=2
😊😊😊😊😊
Hi CJ, I can't find any eng sub for Dream of the Red Chamber. Would you be interested in making a series for that classic novel?
Love your work, by the way ❤
This was brilliant and I noticed you have a Three Kingdoms synopsis as well.
I hope you go on to cover Journey to the West & Dream of Red Mansions.
Granted they are more valuable as cultural relics than historical fiction but it would be fantastic to have all 4 great novels.
As you ask, the idea that occurs to me is that rebelling against injustice and then submitting is contradictory. Song Jiang succeeded while he rebelled against injustice. His downfall came because he ultimately betrayed himself.
Now, all is left to do is a video showcasing a list of all the 108 heroes, with the name, the picture used in the video, and a brief summarization of their role. 😜
Suikoden style
Wikipedia's page on the 108 heroes has a brief profile with ukiyo-e illustrations for each one
You are a man driven by pure passion, i admire your work!
This animated summary of Water Margin itself, is a classic piece of work. Thanks for sharing. Cheers
This passionate work deserves more views and credit. I have been a lifelong fan of Water Margin story, alongside with Sam Kok and Dream of the Red Chamber.
Started devouring the translated, simplified novels during childhood and grew as a Suikoden fan until today. Always find it hard to see the ending where the heroes fell down one by one, but that made me remember forever about Water Margin.
Thank you for your hard work! This makes me wanna play Bandit Kings again!
2:13:01
*Qin Min:* While Fighting Fang Jie, Fang's deputy Du Wei hurled his daggers at Qin Min. while he dodged them, Fang Jie seized the Oppertunity to spear him to death.
*Dong Ping and Zhang Qing:* Dong Ping and Zhang Qing fight against Li Tianrun, despite Dong Ping being injured in the left arm by a projectile, He continued to fight Li. But he finally finds the wound unbearable and retreats to his ranks for treatment, leaving Zhang Qing to take over the fight. Zhang is killed when his spear gets stuck in a tree. Seeing that, Dong Ping charges forth and attempted to kill Li, Li Tianrun's comrade Zhang Tao sneaks up on him and slices him in two from behind.
*Xu Ning and Hao Siwen:* Xu Ning and Hao Siwen face Fang's son Fang Tianding, When Hao Siwen is captured by the enemy, Xu Ning attempts to save him but is stroke by a Poisoned arrow in the neck, He dies from the wound soon after while Hao Siwen is beheaded and quartered by the enemy general Fang Tianding
*Suo Chao and Deng Fei:* While fighting Shi Bao, Shi feigns defeat and lures Suo to chase him. Then suddenly turns back and kills Suo Chao who was caught off guard, Deng Fei Attempted to avenge hik but was immediatly sliced by Shi Bao *(Rip Suo Chao, he only had one apearance in this summarised series)*
*Liu Tang:* Eager to score merit, he charged into the city upon noticing the gate's open. A beam is dropped on him when he gets past the gate, crushing him to death
*Shi Jin, Chen Da, Yang Chun :* Pang Wanchun hits Shi Jin with an arrow in the face while the rest are fatally shot by Pang's archers In Yuling Pass
*Mu Hong:* dies of illness in Hangzhou
*Lei Heng:* slain by the enemy general Si Xingfan
*Ruan Xiao'er:* Commits suicide after failing to complete his mission and almost getting captured by the enemy
*Zhang Heng:* killed by a hail of arrows after failed sneak attempt
*Ruan Xiaowu:* Killed by Fang la's premier Lou Minzhong
*Zhang Shun:* Killed by Rain of arrows
*Shi Xiu:* is shot dead in an ambush by the archers of Pang Wanchun.
*Xie Zhen and Xie Bao:* While climbing a steap cliff, they were discovered by the enemy, Xie Zhen cuts the ropes of the hooks and falls to his death. Xie Bao is crushed to death by the boulders and other debris thrown down at him.
*Xuan Zan:* he and the enemy general, Guo Shiguang slay each other
*Peng Qi and Han Tao:* Killed by Zhang Jinden, Han tao charges foward but gets shot in the face first by Gao Keli's arrow then killed by Zhang Jinren
*Shan Tinggui and Wei Dingguo:* fall in a pit then killed by soldiers waiting in ambush.
*Ou Peng:* Gets shot by Pang Wanchun's arrows
*Zhou Tong:* Killed by Li Tianrun after being caught by suprise
*Ma Lin and Yan Shun:* Man Lin Killed by Shi Bao, and Yan shun Soon follow him after attempting to avenge him
*Lu Fang:* while fighting Bai Qin, they eventually both fall off cliff to their deaths
*Guo Sheng:* crushed to death by boulders rolled down by enemy soldiers
*Bao Xu:* Sliced in two by... ding ding *Shi Bao!*
*Kong Liang and Shi En:* Fall in a river and Drown
*Xiang Chong and Li Gun:* Xiang Ching was Killed by Enemy General Zheng Biao, while Li Gun attempted to chase the Zheng, he accidently falls in a stream and is fatally shot by Zheng's arrows
*Meng Kang:* Trapped by the enemy and blasted into bits by cannon.
*Hou Jian and Duan Jingzhu:* drowns when his boat gets swept into the open sea by a storm.
*Zheng Tianshou:* killed by the enemy's projectile
*Tao Zongwang:* Killed by unknown Causes in battle of Runzhou
*Gong Wang:* falls into a stream and is speared to death
*Ding Desun:* bitten by a poisonous snake in a bush and dies
*Cao Zheng:* is killed by a poisoned arrow.
*Song Wan, Zou Yuan and Du Qian:* Song Wan fell from an arrow shot and rest were trampled to death by the enemy cavalry
*Xue yong:* Fatally shot by arrows from enemy general Pang Wanchun
*Tang Long:* Severely injured, soon succumbs to his wounds
*Zhu Gui and Zhu Fu:* fall sick and die
*Cai Fu and Li Li:* Both critically injured. Later die from their wounds.
*Li Yun:* trampled to death by Wang Yin's horse.
*Jiao Ting:* Killed by unknown causes in Battle of Runzhou
*Shi Yong:* Killed by Wang Yin
*Zhang Qing:* Killed by unknown causes in Battle of Shenzou
*Yu Baosi and Sun Erniang:* Both slain by the enemy officer Du Wei.
*Wang Dingliu:* killed by a poisoned arrow.
*Bai Sheng:* dies of illness before Battle
Well, that was depressing...
@@happyslapsgiving5421 which part?
@@mistergremm735
All of it! 😅
Thanks for the note ❤
Dong ping didn’t kill Li, Li Tianrun was killed by Lu Junyi.
I'm not Chinese, but I love Chinese history and culture. Thank you for sharing.
Honestly, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the intended point, but if you look at the whole story in a complete vacuum, focusing on just the text while ignoring the cultural subtext, this is what I see: The 108 demons all have bad karma they have to work off in this life. Because of this, they all experience misfortune, but it also draws them together. Then, we have their destiny revealed: they have to atone, both literally and spiritually, by fighting against the external and internal threats to the Song empire.
First, they fight the Khitans, Song Jiang's conviction is tested, and he decides to keep fighting for the Song empire. This was the right choice, and in line with their destiny, and as a result, they absolutely dominate the campaign, without a single loss of a named character. Then, after the campaign, the corrupt ministers screw them over, and Song Jiang once again has to make a choice, and this time, he makes the wrong call. Thinking that the internal threat in the prophecy given by the heavenly lady was referring to Fang La's rebellion, he starts a campaign against him, while the real internal threat to the empire were the five corrupt officials all along.
Since he failed his destiny, it cancels out his "plot armor", and he not only fails to receive any further guidance from said heavenly lady, but his 108 stars start falling like flies right after that, and while he wins the campaign, it still results in him being forced to commit suicide, destroying most of his achievements, and the Song empire would soon fall because of the corrupt officials anyway.
This, in essence, makes it so that the downer ending was almost entirely the result of Song Jiang being too zealous in his loyalty to his country, and failing to act when he had the chance to fix the rot that had taken hold in the imperial palace. Again, I doubt this was the intended message, but it's certainly there on a textual level.
Them failing is the overall punishment for focusing on the wrong threat while the differing fates of each Star is a result of their own personal karma.
Song Jiang made the wrong call and was forced to watch his comrades die one by one. Li Kui ended up being poisoned by his lord because of his uncontrollable nature.
Lu Zhishen seems the closest to redemption with being a proper monk and followed the advice his master gave him properly. And he ends up having arguably the best ending out of all the outlaws by achieving enlightenment.
At least that's what I got from the story going by OP's comment.
They failed to save the Song Dynasty, their homeland, but at least some of them got away without harm. A true bittersweet ending.
Suikoden RPG series, the one that's heavily inspired by this 108 outlaws story... I wish there's a Suikoden game with much darker story like this, leading to defeat and ruin instead of victory in the end.
Absolutely lovely summary. My favourite hero is the Featherless Arrow Zhang Qing. Dude was throwing rocks like Ash Ketchum with pokeballs.
*STRIKE*
20:09 Mama~ just killed a man. Put a fist against his head. Punched him three times, now he's dead.
Nice reference to Queen!
Absolutely fantastic and fun retelling!! I loved all your historical asides, this is also such a great resource for people who aren't familiar with historical context! Great animation too, you can see how much passion and work went into this project
My first exposure to Water Margin might probably be a JRPG video game, Genso Suikoden, though i'm not sure it is really following the original series other than the 108 stars of heroes theme.
same, Suikoden IV and V are my introduction to the literature
Oh fellow Riou User😅
What a luck I found your channel! It’s absolutely amazing. I’ve got interested in China history by playing a recently released game “Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty” which takes place in the romance of the three kingdoms period. And now I’m going through everything I can find on the history of China! Thanks for your hard work, it’s awesome.
suprised this turned out to be longer than RTTK, still excited to rewatch
insane that I havent been getting any of these videos lately in my feed, i forgot that this channel even existed for 6 months bc of it.
Ahh you compiled the whole thing! I raise the cup of good wine and sing praises of this triumph, brother.
22:17 actually the ancient taboos against dogs and pork is to do with the fact that dogs and pigs would feed on the dead in battlefields, so there was a danger of inadvertent cannibalism, according to the taboos.
Holy hell, all 108 characters… you’re passionate, and I love your Chinese pronunciation! Sounds like a native, unless you’re one 😂
And yes, Suikoden is also my first exposure of this Chinese literature haha.
There are many kung fu moves quoted in Water Margin, which were actually recorded in history and lasted until the Ming Dynasty. In the full text, only a few people used the movements of the Ming Dynasty, which is more realistic. Many others are much older.
I‘ve loved your summaries of “Romance of the Three Kingdoms” and “Water Margin.” Are you guys going to do “Journey to the West” and “Dream of the Red Chamber?”
Suikoden is one of my favorite game series. I always wondered where the idea came from.
It is normal for readers to identify with the heroes so it would seem that no matter your intentions you will probably be betrayed or ended.
I never finished this book when I first got it, as it was far darker and more gory than I anticipated, but it’s nice to know that my favorite character Lu Da (Zhishen), got a happy ending.
Dude was just a big oaf. Despite his rough exterior, man just wanted a life he could be free and easy
AH THE CAPSLOCK GUY
This is such an amazing piece of work, thank you so much much, you really got me into Water margins!
Since the ending is bittersweet, does Water Magin's ending and the series' beutality and violence reminded you of Attack on Titan in some ways?
yeah by the way I do hope we do get to A better ending of Attack on Titan by the way
@@changsiah2 Sorry but the Rumblig the ending of the series. However, we have the rights to imagine the ending of our own stories.
@@lerneanlion I don't think the whole Attack on Titans was ruined and I just did all this leave it just wasn't their conclusion and that's it ( the author isn't evil or greedy but I think he's slightly got a little overdramatic a bit) also don't be so down there and also wait for anime ending
@@changsiah2yeah me too. I do also like Akatsuki no Requiem ending idea.
I wonder why how some members of mount Liang react to the crimes of li kui because he is the one who commit more atrocities
梁山只有兄弟情义，无法无天。
Redemption based on merit is justice without mercy, it is vain.
We are all have fallen, only God's justice and mercy can trully redeemed us.
Thank you for the video, good work bro!
Was not expecting the Wu Dalang force ghost.
Wildly underappreciated channel. Eagerly awaiting my sweater!
i really like chinese open ended cryptic messages as opposed to western direct messages. the chinese ones leave your mind to open up to all possibilities and then you decide which versions of the supposed meanings fit your situation. almost like meaningful but not too outlandish riddles of life.
Uh, the chinese "messages" are just as open ended as western ones. Its more that the modern western ones are still around, can be asked.
Seeing the utter Moral Hypocrisy from these Violent Bandit "Heroes" reminds of a part I was rereading in Xiyouji (specifically Chapter 67) where Sun Wukong was inside Yellow Brow Great-King's Stomach & was mercilessly beating his insides to a pulp, Maitreya then told Wukong to stop & show the mercy to the Mo-King, but since Old Sun was (rightfully) bitter & angry, he kept doing it! After Maitreya told Wukong to spare Yellow Brow a 2nd Time, he then stopped & came out of Yellow Brows' Body! Shortly after, Wukong & Maitreya fly towards the False Thunderclap, the latter then opens the Doors and 100% allows Wukong to go in & slaughter 700 of Yellow Brows' Yaoguai Minions!
Okay, I see... Let's spare the Jerk who stole YOUR Items (turning them into Weapons) and Impersonated Himself & his Place as Gautama & Thunderclap, just so him could trick people into going in & eat them! But we're NOT going to spare the Hundreds of Yaoguai who were simply just his minions, even after they were ready to leave & run knowing their evil leader was likely subdued! And Guanyin wasn't any better when she pulled that "merciful" spell to subdue Inspiration Great-King, aka her Red Goldfish turned Tyrant Yaoguai...
This was so interesting, thank you for all the work you put in it!!
I watched this because I ordered the "Water Outlaws" book, a queer retelling of this story in which Lin Chong is a woman.
Quite funny that at the end you mention about various adaptations / retelling, as clearly there are still new ones coming out regularly!
this video and many other chb's productions are true works of art. epic precision and details. thank you.
holy shit this is quite the piece of work youve created here
I've been waiting for this since the Three Kingdoms megacompilation!
Thanks for the compilation. Look forward to your next project
MONGOOOOOOOLLLZ
A third reason for cannibalism is to aquire the victim's power in some fashion. Which is usually done for spiritual reasons.
Watching the series made me wanted to know more about it by listening the Water Margin podcast, is actually quite good.
I wonder if you could make a videogame based on Water Margin (I know there is some adaptations like Suikoden, which is getting a remaster this year) but here you could have different endings apart of the canon one depending the choices you made with what if scenarios, like for example what if Song Jian never went to defeat Fang Lang, or even never ask the goverment for amnesty and instead stayed in Liangshan. And many other key events that could have changed the fate of the outlaws, like for example making Wu Song never killed Pan Jinlian and her lover as a reference for the spin-off/non canonic story The Golden Lotus, or if Son Jiang never send his magical healer An Daoquan to the imperial cort so some of the heroes might have recover of their injuries and illnesses.
Wouldn't that be fun?
Kinda ruins the ending which in my eyes is the thing that really ties water margin together.
A leader of a group of degenerates still taking the noble path of honor even if everything and everyone around him is destroyed because of it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandit_Kings_of_Ancient_China
Goid video for winding down, I immediately fall a sleep after less than 10 minutes watching this video.
Thanks very much ...
Awesome cool history bro. Can you please update captions it's bit troublesome when it comes to names. Are there any plans for The Dream of Red Chamber?
I have to admire your efforts. You made a great summary, and also put many cultural classes in it.
Thank you for all your hard work guys . Mary Christmas & happy New year!
"Beef! Pork! Chicken!"
"Wait, we don't condone one of those things..."
Are you ever going to do the Chinese novel Fengshen Yanyi? Sorry for asking
you are amazing. Making animated stories of long stories of Three King and Water Margin 👍👍
108 Heroes of Water Margin
It saddens me that this channel is so underrated :(
Great content like always! I hope you make video about Journey to the west!
I'm starting this series I'm a big fun and I've seen most of your videos fingers crossed for mongol empire someday. And also have you played total war 3 kingdoms and what are your thoughts on it?
A lot of effort this would take. Great respect for you man.
I read this when I was 8. This really makes me feel nostalgic. 😊
2 f***ing hours and I LOVE IT! ❤ Thanks, CJ \o/
43:40 he was so mad he coukd have killed himself but hes hes like nah imma be a bandit. This is a mood
I know you from don't stop thinking d&d animated guide!!!!
You say that it is unlike Robin Hood and that is true for the modern depictions, but the original “robine hode” in the original medieval ballads was a very different character. It was more like The Sopranos or Breaking bad like you describe, where the protagonist is an amoral antihero who acts in their own self interest, but have a sympathetic aspect to them.
@thenoblepoptart I did a little bit of research & the Earliest Surviving Ballads of Robyn Hode (Robin Hood) seem to be...
Robyn Hode & the Shryff off Notyngham, 1475
Robyn Hode & the Munke, 1450
Robyn Hode & the Potter, 1500
A Gest (Tale) of Robyn Hode, Text Fragments between 1493 - 1590
I am interested to see how Morally Grey; Middle English Robin Hood truly was! Especially compared to J.M. Barrie's Peter Pan (1902 - 1911), the Akan Abosom Trickster; Ananse (Spider) & Sun Wukong from the Original 1592 Xiyouji Novel...
@@londonjackson8986 Robin Hood and the monk is hilarious, robin beats the shit out of a clergyman and takes his money to pay off the debts of a friend of his…
@@thenoblepoptart Read a PDF of Robyn Hood and the Munke (with both Middle English & Modern English) & from what I can tell, neither Robyn nor his Men rob a clergyman! You're probably thinking of either Robyn Hode & the Potter or (more likely) The Gest of Robyn Hode! Now, as for Robyn Hode's Morality in the Medieval Ballads? Surprisingly... An Odd Mix of Lawful & Chaotic Neutral, kinda leaning towards Chaotic Good! Like despite being a seemingly Amoral Robber, Robyn in these Ballads (especially in The Gest) surprisingly DOES show to have at least SOME Specific Morals on WHO they rob or kill and WHO they don't (btw, it isn't "Steal from the Rich, Give to the Poor", that definitely came from much later Robin Hood mythos), + his clear veneration towards Virgin Mary, so Robyn is against harming Women! Now don't get me wrong, that doesn't necessarily mean Him, Litull John (Little John), Moch (Much) & the Rest of his Men are Good People, They're Obviously NOT! But in my eyes, they're on same scale or Morality as Sun Wukong was during Ch 14 - 56 of Xiyouji & definitely above Tricksters like Ananse, Reinardus (Reynard) & honestly, a Good Majority of 108 "Heroes" from Shuihu Zhuan!
@@londonjackson8986 his veneration of Mary seems to be a constant in all the stories, he’s pretty pious, but has that kind of anti-clerical bent as well. similar to the water margin crew like you said
I read the simplified version of Water Margin in High School. It was something, for that time.
As old stories do it has so many interresting characters that it might be worth an actual read. did read most of romance of the three kingdoms and loved most of it so i gather this one will be a gem too.
Thanks guy. Very entertaining. My 6 yrs old likes it. As well as Romance of three kingdoms,
Especially, ' Cao Cao what are you up to?'
The best tv show based on Water Margin is the 1998 tv series made by CCTV. It gets really brutal toward a the end. You can watch it for free on TH-cam in 4K.
I've been watching this over and over and letting it play in the background while gaming.
Hao Han is my new favorite phrase!
Excellent work here Sir and your Team
Good work! What can you guys recommend as the best adaptation to this similar to the 2010 RTTK?
you left out the chapter where the commoners built shrines to song jiang and the liangshan heroes who became guardian spirits
The four classics are all sort of aimed towards different demographics
- Journey to the West is more of a whimsical childrens' story with magic and monsters
- Water Margin is an episodic story for teenage boys who enjoy more violent content
- Three Kingdoms is a political thriller for adults
- Dream of the Red Chamber seems like a family drama that can be enjoyed by those who have mellowed out and desire a break from stories about adventure and epic battles
I mean....these are brilliant. The dynasty ones and the unifiers of Japan were great but after this and the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms one I sort of wish you did all the classical Chinese novels lol. And tale of genji, and journey to the west, and just do everything lmao
Thank you for all the hard work. I absolutely love it ❤.
Please consider climbing the highest mountain -- summarizing the Dream of the Red chamber.
This was a great summary. But i hope you will now cover history next
Great story telling! Thank you a lot!
I have just finished reading this amazing novel and I have to make a correction. I read the Shapiro English translation of this novel. On the 2nd time that the mystic Lady of the 9th heaven appears to asong Jian, she tells him that he must leave quickly, that there is a limited number of times that celestials can appear to mortals and as such, this will be the final time they meet all he is still immortal, and that they shall meet again after he dies and comes back to heaven.
That Zhu Wu guy forsure a reincarnation of Liu Bei
25:51 No man, swigging a staff isn't cooler than UPROOTING A TREE WITH YOUR BARE HANDS !!!
You know listening to this and knowing that it had three authors it feels like with the second & third it became a fan-fiction of the original author then a fan fiction of a fan fiction with the magic & divine intervention stuff added on.
Maybe thats just me.
If you know the tropes of the chinese classic you will be able to see how deeply they have influenced anime
Finished the book today...beautiful, just beautiful
Working for the emperor is like riding a tiger , no good ending .
The House always wins.
do not forget the song gouryeo relationship yuan goryeo relationship
Best video I have watch in YEARS!!! ❤❤❤
Thanks for a great video! You have gained another sub!
This is my favorite Chinese series. I even bought the DVD. 😂
Thank you for introducing me to this.
I've noticed in Wuxia Taoist are usually seen as sneaky/untrustworthy. Are the reasons for this or is it just whichever had more followers just like portraying the opposite as bad?
That's because there are more taoist charlatans out there peddling their magic in general. Reputable taoist schools like Wudang are usually quite respected.
For some reason.. I felt almost those suikoden 2 108 characters are from “water margin”
That’s because they literally are lol. Suikoden was based on Water Margin!
"Do you play ball?" Take it with no context that sounds sus
Hey CJ. I have a question about the video Chinese and korean clans in ancient Japan. Was it the Han Chinese that migrated there or was it the mixed Biayue and Han people that came to japan
This was a interesting to watch🤔 always enjoy your videos
Growing up in the 70's and 80's this and Monkey were two of the best programs on TV. A real coup by BBC2!
Will you make a video series about the Qing dynasty some day?
Good sir. For your efforts to adhere while also exposing is admirable. I prefer the WHOLE truth to ancient tales. Theyre gateways into the hearts and souls of man imho. By examining the greater zeitgeist/memetics we can kind of tell that humans have always been a bit of a mess, but still there are pieces of beauty amongst all the tragedy. I hope for humanity's expanditure and destiny. I have doubts, but sometimes souls like yourself help us all stay... grounded yet hopeful that kaybe our species WILL learn and become "better".
Scholar and Beauty being the known romance focused stories just tells me that women have always loved pretty men since before and today.
Handsome men tend to have beautiful mothers
You missed the "historical" tag for Gao Qiu. The fictional character was based on a historical person.
Why wasn't the Old Man, & the Warrior Wife Number 109, & 110 respectively?
because they're not in main content, they're DLCs.
Great job on this.
Best JRPG ever !
can you do a video on the Imjin War someday?
so, tyrion lannister of game of thrones got inspiration from song jiang...
..... ah yes, Suikoden, one of my favorite jrpg serie--
...
Do I still get to build a town?
"recursive Mandelbrot set" this history bro maths in his spare time
Absolutely brilliant!
I love your videos, can you update Eng sub to all of it pls, I am not good at hearing Eng.