Bumble bee snails have been amazing for me. I added some years ago. They have moved with several tank upgrades and I still occasionally see them around, but never see vermetids anymore.
I used most of these techniques to great success beating back an infestation of vermatids in my 180 gallon about a year ago. I really took a three pronged approach and it worked very well though it took a few months to sort out. 1st cut back broadcast feeding dramatically. I noticed everytime I fed certain foods I could see them extend their snot webs. So I stopped feeding those foods. 2nd diy coral snow. I mixed up some diy coral snow using calcium carbonate. I read that in addition to reducing particulates in the water it can clog up their tubes, so about three weekends in a row I vacuumed my sand (which stirs up a ton of particulates) after which I could see all their snot webs come out and I dosed the coral snow. Assumption being that they'll try to eat the coral snow which will clog their tubes and kill them off. Finally I added 8 bumblebee snails. 8 doesn't seem like a lot in a 180 gallon tank and I'm sure without the other measures I took they wouldn't have done much, but I believe after the initial die off of vermatids the bumblebees have kept the population in check. This was over a year ago and I recently counted at least 6 bumblebees still alive and well in my tank. Vermatids haven't been a problem for me since. Of course, now I have majanos 😒 but that's a whole other problem.
The calcium carbonate method worked 100% for me, took only a month or so and it was with a severe outbreak. It didn't mess with tank chemistry or ramp up the skimmer and corals didn't even notice it. I would recommend you try it because there's a stigma in the hobby that we just have to deal with them forever in our systems but that's not the facts. with pure calcium carbonate I made a 12oz batch with about 3-5tbs concentration and dosed about 1-2oz twice a week until the batch was depleted and that choked them out and the structures were consumed by bumblebee snails I would assume because there isn't really much if any left of the structures now.
That is so interesting. Glad to hear that it worked for you. It might be a good solution especially if it gets the ones that hide in the plumbing or other places you never see.
This is a great video! I found moving from broadcast feeding to target feeding corals made a huge dent in the vermetid population in my tank, I also do some manual removal whenever I pick up a coral/frag and see them. Important thing to note is that you want to prise them off from the base and not just break off the tube as they grow that back.
It was Bumble Bee snails that really became the solution for me. Manual removal and destruction will never get everything, especially vermetid snails in tricky locations like crevices and overhands. Bumble Bee snails have been the go to clean up crew addition for nuisance that is vermetid snails.
When it gets really bad what I started doing was try to help out the bumblebee snails by breaking the tips of the vermetid snails. I don't know if it matters but my thinking was that it would make it easier for them to access the vermetids.
A good tool for manual removal of these suckers is a surgical instrument called a “Rongeur.” It’s used to essentially gnaw and scrape away bone and cartilage. They look similar to coral bone cutters but have two blunt, scoop shaped tips.
I threw a lot of bubble bee snails at mine. They got bad in my 75g. Took a while but they have been staying all but gone and I keep an eye on the bubble bee snail population.
I’m pretty sure valentini puffers will eat vermetid snails. I added one to a clients soft coral tank and i don’t see any of the small ones anymore in that tank. He doesn’t eat the large ones though, but those are more obvious to see and manually remove. They may not be reef safe, but that’s usually towards small snails
That’s strange never had a problem with these in my tank ever over 30 years time. But on that note, I will get a half dozen of the bumblebee snails. It seems like that seems to be the popular antidote in the comment section.
I commented on a video of monti eating nudibranch with a „solution“ I experienced. Interestingly the valentiny buffer fish I had did also a great job on those vermetid snails. He picked on them all the time and in just a few weeks I went from hundreds everywhere to non visible. But as I said in my other comment, it’s only my experience
Oh wow! Just yesterday I bought this K-beauty (Holika Holika) jar of black snail mucin that’s supposed to “repair” and “brighten” my face. Imagine, instead of an irritant, there’s a snail secretion you could harness to help the coral.
Than those pleated filters are what they use for inflatable hot tubs. It usually fits inside of a plastic housing that I think you could probably make fit your closed loop pump system.
I’m not sure about that. My copperband is 5 years old and never ever touched any of those nasty vermetids. Maybe there are exceptions and you own the chosen one ☝️ congratulations 👍
My opinion is that bumblebee snails (bbee) are very good at managing this pest, but people make several mistakes. First, they don't get enough bbee snails to begin with. I would recommend 3 for every 10 gallons of water volume. I put 36 of them in my 90 gallon display. Second, they don't wait long enough to let the bbee snails do their thing. Third, they assume that because they still see the tubes that the bbee snails aren't doing their job. This is false as the tubes will remain after the bbee has killed the host in the tube. You need to periodically scrape these empty tubes from your aquascape. Finally, they don't take measures to clear them out of the overflows, sump, and plumbing where the bbees probably won't venture.
So i heard bumblebee snails can work but not guaranteed. I went to my lfs wanting to buy one for my nano but they all practically looked dead. They keep the snails in a acrylic box in their coral tank and they have nothing to eat. So they die…. Im going to check again tomorrow. I bought some turbos and one turbo had a vermetid snail on it. I thought it wa a feather duster so i left it. Then boom 50 vermetids in my 26g
I have pictures of a bumblebee going after vermitids in our coral QT. They mostly get the small ones. Once the vermitids gets too large they need manual crushing at the base imho. For that is use 24" medical forceps. Im not sure if you can ever fully eradicated, one always seems to pop up months later, but sure can knock them back! Also have had vermitids grow on sps and prevent polyp extension and growth in those areas. Drives me nuts when people say they have no impact. Pesky little buggers. Seconds only to dinos in modern reef plagues, though less impactful.
I have also noticed rocks scrapping inverts minimize population by scrapping off the itty bitty just settled vermitids. Namely tuxedo urchins and emerald crabs (if you trust a crab...)
Question, wont some of these ways to combat them impact corals in a bad way? If we filter aggresively wont that deplete the water of nutrients etc that the corals need?
Than, do you have a solution for Spionid Acropora worms? All you see of them is long, stringy tentacles and they burrow. A Red Sea ReefMat will solve most of your issues of excess food and nutrients. You can control your nutrient levels based on the amount of roll that advances. The best piece of equipment released ever. I can't tell you the amount of maintenance time that it saves.
I recently set up a tank and used liverock. I just noticed that the rock has a lot of vermetid snails. I ab about to get rid of the rocks. Is the sand and gravel OK or should I start from scratch. The set is only 2 weeks old. Thanks for the video.
question: when you first show the bumblebee snails @14:36 there are these spiral white shells on the snail itself... what are those? my aquarium is infested with them
They suck, been dealing with them for years. Bumblebees and active removal are the only way to manage them. Too bad bumblebees can't eat the larger size colonies
My problem was sorted by BUMBLE BEE SNAILS. I had a lot of vermitted snails & then slowly saw them disappearing, wasn't sure why & I came across a post of thing that said BIMBLE BEE SNAILS. Maybe just a coincidence
Almost thought you weren't going to mention the bumblebee snails, you saved the best for last! These guys will definitely get the job done! You can bypass everything else mentioned and put a dozen of these in your tank and within weeks, your vsnails will be eradicated.
This is anecdotal. But I got a green mantis shrimp from a Tampa Bay live rock company years ago. It would destroy the big ones. I had him in his own tank and I would place the live rock with the worms in his tank. By the next day they would be gone. The shrimp would break the shell down to the spiral part that attaches to the rock. It was a green mantis about 2.5 inches long from the gulf. After it died I went to gluing the nasty things closed.
Pulled out all my rocks individually and flicked all the vermitids off with a sharp knife. Took a very long time but kept the population down significantly for quite a while. Unfortunately theyre back now after about 4 months probably because of my feeding habits. Need to go on the attack again.
First person to captive breed a fish that eats them and not coral will be rich. Lots of "sometimes" fish, but a guaranteed. I'd pay alot for the manual removal time back.
I have this problem .. and setting up now an 1400 liter aquarium ( the one what has the problem 900 liter and still running ) i was thinking of filter water whit filtersocks and pour in the new tank ..do i risk that theese get in the new tank ? My old tank has a wonderfull biosystem would love to use the bacteria -water feom it but im a hit affraid vermitid get in because of it
@@tidalgardens so if i filter the water in filter socks then is no need to worry ? I agree ofc its easy to introduce them , but I will QT whit bumbelbee snails + wont use any frag plug from now on ( Just get the coral off as soon as im home and glue to New non used ones ( + dip ) )
Definitely an interesting view on vermetid snails, considering both Julian Sprung and the late Robert (Bob) Fenner consider them to be a harmless addition to any reef. "These long strands entrap detritus and plankton on which the snail feeds. are harmless, and their proliferation indicates the aquarium is healthy". - 'The Reef Aquarium by Julian Sprung and J.Charles Delbeek' . "sessile Vermetid snails may be inevitable, they are helpful filter-feeders, but harsh on one’s hands for their sharp, sturdy calcareous spiral tubes. Frankly, a few tens or even a couple hundred of them in a larger aquarium are a very fine addition to the biodiversity. Vermetids are completely reef-safe and pose no threat to desirable marine invertebrate life”. - Reef Invertebrates an Essential Guide to Selection, Care and Compatibility’ by Robert Fenner and Anthony Calfo.
Vermetid snails are tough to get rid of but it can be done! If you have some other methods that worked, share it with the community below.
Diamond saw! Also using bone cutters on the stem then stabbing the head at the bottom also was told to work, customer told us that worked
😂
I did not think it was bad. 😮 just part of the system. Live rock. Or just cool 😎. Opps... .. .lol
Acropora don't seem to mind. Not that I noticed. ❤
Hey! Thanks for the shout-out! I promise we’re working on those 7” filters for you!
Bumble bee snails have been amazing for me. I added some years ago. They have moved with several tank upgrades and I still occasionally see them around, but never see vermetids anymore.
Bumble bee snails put a massive dent in the population in my tank.
Did they kill all your other snails?
I used most of these techniques to great success beating back an infestation of vermatids in my 180 gallon about a year ago. I really took a three pronged approach and it worked very well though it took a few months to sort out.
1st cut back broadcast feeding dramatically. I noticed everytime I fed certain foods I could see them extend their snot webs. So I stopped feeding those foods.
2nd diy coral snow. I mixed up some diy coral snow using calcium carbonate. I read that in addition to reducing particulates in the water it can clog up their tubes, so about three weekends in a row I vacuumed my sand (which stirs up a ton of particulates) after which I could see all their snot webs come out and I dosed the coral snow. Assumption being that they'll try to eat the coral snow which will clog their tubes and kill them off.
Finally I added 8 bumblebee snails. 8 doesn't seem like a lot in a 180 gallon tank and I'm sure without the other measures I took they wouldn't have done much, but I believe after the initial die off of vermatids the bumblebees have kept the population in check. This was over a year ago and I recently counted at least 6 bumblebees still alive and well in my tank.
Vermatids haven't been a problem for me since.
Of course, now I have majanos 😒 but that's a whole other problem.
Glad you were able to find a method that worked for you. I think Majanos are much easier to handle!
The calcium carbonate method worked 100% for me, took only a month or so and it was with a severe outbreak. It didn't mess with tank chemistry or ramp up the skimmer and corals didn't even notice it. I would recommend you try it because there's a stigma in the hobby that we just have to deal with them forever in our systems but that's not the facts. with pure calcium carbonate I made a 12oz batch with about 3-5tbs concentration and dosed about 1-2oz twice a week until the batch was depleted and that choked them out and the structures were consumed by bumblebee snails I would assume because there isn't really much if any left of the structures now.
That is so interesting. Glad to hear that it worked for you. It might be a good solution especially if it gets the ones that hide in the plumbing or other places you never see.
Where did you source your Calcium Carbonate from? And if you have a link could you drop it here to your source?!
@@chinoreef2310 the key is pure unflavored powder pretty much lab grade.
Any references? What size tank were you dosing this amount to?
Didnt work for me - daily dosing, used a whole 1kg from amzn. My system is large tho, 275g.
This is a great video! I found moving from broadcast feeding to target feeding corals made a huge dent in the vermetid population in my tank, I also do some manual removal whenever I pick up a coral/frag and see them. Important thing to note is that you want to prise them off from the base and not just break off the tube as they grow that back.
Great info... but all of that went away when.I saw that Echinata - WOW!
It was Bumble Bee snails that really became the solution for me. Manual removal and destruction will never get everything, especially vermetid snails in tricky locations like crevices and overhands. Bumble Bee snails have been the go to clean up crew addition for nuisance that is vermetid snails.
When it gets really bad what I started doing was try to help out the bumblebee snails by breaking the tips of the vermetid snails. I don't know if it matters but my thinking was that it would make it easier for them to access the vermetids.
@@tidalgardens it definitely helps. I've seen our bb snails go after vermitids after breaking tubes and unable to eat long tubes adults vermitids.
Like a jewel for real! I just started with a bunch of nasty snails ... When you kill them they smell really really bad
Great advice
I love TG videos on livestock. I learn soo much from Than
Thank you!
When I saw this thumbnail I immediately thought: "Daddy Than gonna save me."
haha
Same 🤣
A good tool for manual removal of these suckers is a surgical instrument called a “Rongeur.” It’s used to essentially gnaw and scrape away bone and cartilage. They look similar to coral bone cutters but have two blunt, scoop shaped tips.
Your facility is absolutely beautiful! So clean and meticulous! Big fan of the channel. Always learning something new here. Thanks for sharing
Thank you!
I threw a lot of bubble bee snails at mine. They got bad in my 75g. Took a while but they have been staying all but gone and I keep an eye on the bubble bee snail population.
Nice. Glad they worked for you
I absolutely adore your footage
I’m pretty sure valentini puffers will eat vermetid snails. I added one to a clients soft coral tank and i don’t see any of the small ones anymore in that tank. He doesn’t eat the large ones though, but those are more obvious to see and manually remove.
They may not be reef safe, but that’s usually towards small snails
Got the Rocky Mountain filter! It works great and takes maybe a minute to clean. Can’t recommend enough
Nice! I am looking forward to trying larger ones when they are available.
Thank you Wayne. I’m still waiting for your order for the second one!! Haha!
@@rmff4746 I know! Damn life gets in the way every time I want to buy something cool. Soon
Congratulations Tidal thank you about information 👍🐟🐠🐡
That’s strange never had a problem with these in my tank ever over 30 years time. But on that note, I will get a half dozen of the bumblebee snails. It seems like that seems to be the popular antidote in the comment section.
Haha perfect! I was about to do a bunch of research on these guys but you just did it for me!
Glad to help
I commented on a video of monti eating nudibranch with a „solution“ I experienced.
Interestingly the valentiny buffer fish I had did also a great job on those vermetid snails. He picked on them all the time and in just a few weeks I went from hundreds everywhere to non visible.
But as I said in my other comment, it’s only my experience
Great job as always
Oh wow! Just yesterday I bought this K-beauty (Holika Holika) jar of black snail mucin that’s supposed to “repair” and “brighten” my face.
Imagine, instead of an irritant, there’s a snail secretion you could harness to help the coral.
th-cam.com/video/MxA0QVGVEJw/w-d-xo.html
How is that skin care product working out? Can you tell if it is making a difference?
Than those pleated filters are what they use for inflatable hot tubs. It usually fits inside of a plastic housing that I think you could probably make fit your closed loop pump system.
That is true
A small spoon works pretty good. Capable of crushing or plucking. Handle works good in tight spaces.
I'll pay you to remove the 100k+ in my tank lol
I used some dental picks. Removed all my rocks twice and just plucked them off. I dosed calcium carbonate to starve any reminders out.
@@it8eazy I've done the same. They keep returning. I did coral snow for 3mo straight.
FYI my mystery wrasse ate all of my vermetid snails! He was a good boy!
Beautiful fish on top of it.
@@tidalgardens Haha yea they are probably my favorite because of their looks as well as their personalities!
Perfect timing!!!
That’s exactly the method I used with raised temp and other methods (0 vermitid snails) time taken 7 months.
What temperature did you raise it to?
@@tidalgardens th-cam.com/video/JTvaJirgBEU/w-d-xo.html
Im a big fan of using a dental pick and being persistent on removal before it becomes a problem.
Chelmon rostratus and other butterfly fishes will eat vermetid snails
Nice video nice images
No way really? I need to see if I can tell a difference in my aquariums with and without copperband butterflies.
@@tidalgardens yes, i have one and in like 2 moths no more vermetids
I’m not sure about that. My copperband is 5 years old and never ever touched any of those nasty vermetids. Maybe there are exceptions and you own the chosen one ☝️ congratulations 👍
Spirorbid worms next
My opinion is that bumblebee snails (bbee) are very good at managing this pest, but people make several mistakes. First, they don't get enough bbee snails to begin with. I would recommend 3 for every 10 gallons of water volume. I put 36 of them in my 90 gallon display. Second, they don't wait long enough to let the bbee snails do their thing. Third, they assume that because they still see the tubes that the bbee snails aren't doing their job. This is false as the tubes will remain after the bbee has killed the host in the tube. You need to periodically scrape these empty tubes from your aquascape. Finally, they don't take measures to clear them out of the overflows, sump, and plumbing where the bbees probably won't venture.
False I had 30 bumble bee snails in 17 gallons and did nothing
Has anyone had a tube snap off in their finger and when you try do dig it out it shatters like glass.
Just so you guys know at minute Mark 1:41 you can see a flatworm. Other than that beautiful video as always guys
So i heard bumblebee snails can work but not guaranteed. I went to my lfs wanting to buy one for my nano but they all practically looked dead. They keep the snails in a acrylic box in their coral tank and they have nothing to eat. So they die…. Im going to check again tomorrow. I bought some turbos and one turbo had a vermetid snail on it. I thought it wa a feather duster so i left it. Then boom 50 vermetids in my 26g
Whats the name of the plastic discs replacing the filter sock. That looks pretty cool
Rocky Mountain Fish Filter
3:23 did you see that one coral plug move while he’s talking about quarantining.. I know it’s nothing but it was weird and sci-fi like
Great IPM video :)
I have pictures of a bumblebee going after vermitids in our coral QT. They mostly get the small ones. Once the vermitids gets too large they need manual crushing at the base imho. For that is use 24" medical forceps.
Im not sure if you can ever fully eradicated, one always seems to pop up months later, but sure can knock them back!
Also have had vermitids grow on sps and prevent polyp extension and growth in those areas. Drives me nuts when people say they have no impact. Pesky little buggers. Seconds only to dinos in modern reef plagues, though less impactful.
I have also noticed rocks scrapping inverts minimize population by scrapping off the itty bitty just settled vermitids. Namely tuxedo urchins and emerald crabs (if you trust a crab...)
That is very interesting and makes sense.
Can they live inside the calcium bodies of hammers? I don’t see the tubes but I see the “whiskers” flowing at night
Question, wont some of these ways to combat them impact corals in a bad way? If we filter aggresively wont that deplete the water of nutrients etc that the corals need?
Than, do you have a solution for Spionid Acropora worms? All you see of them is long, stringy tentacles and they burrow.
A Red Sea ReefMat will solve most of your issues of excess food and nutrients. You can control your nutrient levels based on the amount of roll that advances. The best piece of equipment released ever. I can't tell you the amount of maintenance time that it saves.
Dude this is so on time
I recently set up a tank and used liverock. I just noticed that the rock has a lot of vermetid snails. I ab about to get rid of the rocks. Is the sand and gravel OK or should I start from scratch. The set is only 2 weeks old. Thanks for the video.
question: when you first show the bumblebee snails @14:36 there are these spiral white shells on the snail itself... what are those? my aquarium is infested with them
Type of featherduster worm
They suck, been dealing with them for years. Bumblebees and active removal are the only way to manage them. Too bad bumblebees can't eat the larger size colonies
My problem was sorted by BUMBLE BEE SNAILS. I had a lot of vermitted snails & then slowly saw them disappearing, wasn't sure why & I came across a post of thing that said BIMBLE BEE SNAILS. Maybe just a coincidence
PS I posted before watching the video. hahahhaha
Huh.. i alwyas thought they were all feather duster worms. I know some were but now i can see those tint limbs are a snail.
10 micron filter socks is what I use. Not sure if it helps, but can’t hurt.
That would do a lot. 10 micron is aggressive
I do wander if a copperband would pick at them enough to starve them out. Or a beaked fish like a trigger, puffer or filefish.
The answer for the copperband is unfortunately no. For the other fish I don’t know. Copperbands are great for aiptesia
Will love Phyto feed them?
I heard that prazipro can kill this, what do you think?
Almost thought you weren't going to mention the bumblebee snails, you saved the best for last! These guys will definitely get the job done! You can bypass everything else mentioned and put a dozen of these in your tank and within weeks, your vsnails will be eradicated.
I feed flake krill so it floats then goes through my over flow box 100 micron poly socks
Than ơi, hay quá anh. Paris by Night sẽ thanh công 🙏🏻
My twin spot wrasse eats vermetid snails. Maybe they all do. I'm not sure, but i know mine definitely eats them.
A couple people are reporting their wrasses help control them. I haven't seen it but then again I don't see the bumblebees working actively either.
Super glue
Got a part number for that pleated marine land filter? I looked and could not find what you guys are using
amzn.to/3nN7wDy
This is anecdotal. But I got a green mantis shrimp from a Tampa Bay live rock company years ago.
It would destroy the big ones. I had him in his own tank and I would place the live rock with the worms in his tank. By the next day they would be gone. The shrimp would break the shell down to the spiral part that attaches to the rock.
It was a green mantis about 2.5 inches long from the gulf. After it died I went to gluing the nasty things closed.
Bumble bee snails put a massive dent in the population in my tank. I put 3 in my 220g tank, they took care of 90% my problem.
Just three?
Ok, no one is commenting on the video intro image?
I thought the exact same thing!! Cannot imagine this gets by Than scrutiny lol
That's a big one...
"that's what she said"
Love the thumbnail!
@@tidalgardens I thought of "Dune"
(the old one)
Pulled out all my rocks individually and flicked all the vermitids off with a sharp knife. Took a very long time but kept the population down significantly for quite a while. Unfortunately theyre back now after about 4 months probably because of my feeding habits. Need to go on the attack again.
how in the hell to you rinse frozen food??
Are the bumblebee snails related anyway to the assassin snail they look a lot alike and they both eat other snails
I don't know, but they might be?
My Melanurus wrasse chomps them off the rocks.
Very interesting. I haven't seen mine do that but would be amazing if they did help control them. I try to put one in every tank.
mine waits to be fed.
First person to captive breed a fish that eats them and not coral will be rich. Lots of "sometimes" fish, but a guaranteed. I'd pay alot for the manual removal time back.
I have this problem .. and setting up now an 1400 liter aquarium ( the one what has the problem 900 liter and still running ) i was thinking of filter water whit filtersocks and pour in the new tank ..do i risk that theese get in the new tank ? My old tank has a wonderfull biosystem would love to use the bacteria -water feom it but im a hit affraid vermitid get in because of it
It could help, but it is hard to exclude altogether. They can get introduced very easily from a number of sources.
@@tidalgardens so if i filter the water in filter socks then is no need to worry ? I agree ofc its easy to introduce them , but I will QT whit bumbelbee snails + wont use any frag plug from now on ( Just get the coral off as soon as im home and glue to New non used ones ( + dip ) )
Definitely an interesting view on vermetid snails, considering both Julian Sprung and the late Robert (Bob) Fenner consider them to be a harmless addition to any reef.
"These long strands entrap detritus and plankton on which the snail
feeds. are harmless, and their proliferation indicates the aquarium is healthy". - 'The Reef Aquarium by Julian Sprung and J.Charles Delbeek' .
"sessile Vermetid snails may be inevitable, they are helpful
filter-feeders, but harsh on one’s hands for their sharp, sturdy calcareous
spiral tubes. Frankly, a few tens or even a couple hundred of them in a larger
aquarium are a very fine addition to the biodiversity. Vermetids are completely
reef-safe and pose no threat to desirable marine invertebrate life”. - Reef Invertebrates an Essential Guide to Selection, Care and Compatibility’ by Robert Fenner and Anthony Calfo.
I miss my Magnum 330 from 1985.
Valentin puffer 😏
Bubblebee Snails is the answer.
Somehow, the TH-cam algorithm has not removed the thumbnail 😅
Sooo… I saw the thumbnail and thought how’d did this inappropriate content make it to TH-cam. Then I read the title!
The thumbnail looks like something else...
This is the one video I needed! these guys are just the worst....
Why am I first almost always
Is it just me or did anyone else mistake the thumbnail for something inappropriate?
Ummmmmm Than!!! That thumb nail😂😂😂
I am so happy with it :)
Definitely not jewish