Loki | Fire God or Mischief Maker?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2024
- Loki: Fire God or Mischief Maker?
In this episode of 'Deity Tracker' we will delve into the enigmatic figure of Loki in Norse and Germanic mythology and history.
Was he originally a fire or hearth spirit, or is he merely the god of mischief we know today? Does he even exist at all or is he a total fabrication?
Join Story Crow as we dive into ancient myths, archaeological findings, literary sources, folklore and etymology to unravel the true nature of Loki.
We’ll explore his role in the Poetic and Prose Edda, his possible connections to fire as well as trickery, and compare him to other mythological tricksters like Prometheus and Hermes.
Tune in to uncover the strange truth about Loki’s possible origins and his enduring impact on mythology and popular culture.
For more stories about Loki on this channel ...
"Loki and Idun's Apples"
• Loki and the theft of ...
"The Children of Loki"
• What does Odin Fear? T...
"Thor and Loki in the Land of Giants"
• How Thor got his hamme...
For more episode's of Deity Tracker on other figures of Norse and Germanic Myth:
h • Thunor | Thor and othe...
And for more stories about Tricksters such as Anansi, Crow and Wolverine
• Coyote Plays Dead
My name is Oliver Lavery and I'm the Story Crow. Thanks for watching !
What do you think folks! Loki. Fire god or no?
If you want to support my work as a mythologist and storyteller then head over to ye old patreon
patreon.com/TheStoryCrow?
Ancestral to the Germanic people, the Scythians had a long history of breeding horses and hounds. Since Loki is said to have given birth to Odin's horse, and is referred to as the Wolf's Mother, he & the Jotun generally (several Aesir having Jotun parents) seem to represent aspects of that ancestral culture (he's even depicted [0:30] in a Scythian hat).
How do we know that Loki makes nets?
Thanks
yes he is a fire god, the god of fire insults. 😂 thanks for this one, lokis tales are always classics. and i have heard someone that is a norse pagan describe loki as a “spark” as in the catalyst for a change of states of being and that mistranslation is where he thought the fire god myth comes from. this is coming from a position of seeing loki as the god of sudden changes aka chaos that the people of the viking age and earlier saw as a nuisance rather than a god. and that “land spirit of asgard” makes so much sense and ive never heard it before. thanks again for another great video.
I like it! ⚡️ 🔥 ✨
From what I have come to understand is Loki is the agent of change. Odin always drinks with Loki because when you drink we change right. Sometimes not for the better. Loki being at the smith is a clear expression of “change”.
Very well stated. Tricksters often bring about necessary change. Some resist change.
Loki. The only intellectual amongst the Aesir.
I think of Loki as a Mercurial being. In astrology Mercury is the ruler of both Gemini and Virgo, an air sign and an earth sign. So, sewing his mouth shut prevents him from speaking and one might consider that as air and sound combined. Mercury being both messenger and trickster energy. Just an idea. Also, try to grasp Mercury the element.
Hilariously just when you say at 15:30 “Surtr, he’s of course a…” an ad for Dr Paris chipped in with “chiropractor”! Loki, clearly taking the p!$$ there ;)
I love that. ‘Trickster confounds the internet” such a Loki move 😂
interesting video.
one note, Prometheus was not sent to Tartarus like other Titans, he was bound on mount Khazbek which was once an active volcano, now dormant for thousands of years. Many local fire stealing heroes are said to be bound there, but not Amirani who everyone associates with Prometheus, yet being diametrically different heroes, Amirani never even steals fire.
one interesting note is that we in Georgia have a very similar fairy tale to Ash Lad, I even made a christmas video re-telling.
the figure, Natsarqeqia or Ash digger or ash-raker who is a similar trickster figure who swindles ogres from their castle.
Strange finding such similar characters in such far away cultures.
My Wild theory on Loki is that it was an older figure, Indo-European local spirit, "adopted" into Asir family of gods because he was useful, but still kept as an outsider.
Totally with you on your Loki interpretation, it’s one I’ve heard before.
Thanks for the note on Prometheus, I just assumed it was Tartarus 😅
Had never heard of the Georgian ash lad - love how the tales seed - thanks for that too my friend 🙏
Great comment 🍻✨👍
Can we have a link to your telling of that story?
I'm definitely biased for Loki being a fire entity, but your video gave me some interpretations of my own I thought were fun.
Loki biting the smith like a fly made me think of embers jumping out of the fire and stinging the smith's hand. I don't know how big the snaptun stone is but it sounds like it protects from embers.
His parents, Striker and Leafy, made me think of flint and tinder (used to make a domestic fire). We think of giants as big but they usually, more importantly, primal and unpredictable. Flint and tinder are primal tools that can make fire, if it gets out of hand it becomes chaotic.
I'm probably fishing for evidence in my favor, but I thought they might be fun to share.
Yeah, good observations . Thanks for sharing!
I’ve heard this before what you have mentioned 👍🏼
In the Norwegian language - in some dialects even today - "Låge" or "Låke" means flames :) To me, Loki is a god representative of us as human beings - lying, cheating, full of good ideas and intentions and how to help - that goes wrong, and falls to the earth ... The god of crazy ideas that afflicts his surroundings as well :D
Classic trickster. A mirror to humanity 😉
Loved the crow in the intro. It invoked magician vibes.
"Don't want your cat to piss on your rug" tee hee. Didn't know you could petition for that.
Thanks for the dive on Loki.
Totally Loki thing to do 🤣 🐈⬛
Thank you for all of your amazing videos. Thank you for the education into folklore and history. Love your channel and would love to see you on a story telling tour one day ❤Scotland 😊
Thanks for the kind words. I’m hoping to find a slot at the Edinburgh storytelling festival this October 🤞🤞🤞
If Loki is a fire god, I see a lot of connection to Lugh.
Yup. With you there.
I came across someone claiming the names are etymologically related under a different video, although idk enough about the subject to comment on the veracity of said claim.
Interestingly Lugh seems to have much more in common with Odin - and is related to Lugos the chief of the European Celtic pantheon - perhaps this might lend a clue to his origin. Wikipedia states the name may derive from PIE for black, break or to swear oath. If the Norse wanted to co-opt, mock or mess with the Celts in general, and seeing the irish and French having an Odin like figure in Lugos/Lugh, perhaps he was adopted and had his status diminished to show their disdain? Perhaps Celtic pagans cohabited with the Vikings in Denmark and Scandinavia and they liked the character of Lugh and adopted him at some point, but Odin worshippers later had him become more laughable?
Given how close his name is to the likes of Licht, Luke, and Logan it makes sense
Interesting analysis and overview ❤ love the videos you produce.
If you think about it, fire is a morally ambivalent thing. Both useful and dangerous, so I guess in an animistic culture, it might be a spirit that you want to pacify if you're going to be using an element that can be dangerous like that.
Well stated
Very interesting and does make a lot of sense -
The more I listened to this, the more I thought about him being a land spirit ( intuition maybe? ) Loki is a fascinating character and the video is very thought provoking. By the way I love the crow ❤
Interesting… makes sense doesn’t it? 🙏
Love your stories, just found you! Just a odd comment, love your tats as well!! Any story you care to tell? Thanks!
Thank you 🙏
Not much story to tell really. Just catching up with my well tattooed fiancée 😂
One is from a plate inside the gundestrupp cauldron, the other is from a la tene scabbard 👍
Excellent and so neatly encapsulated. I'd love to see you and Janina Ramirez discussing Scandi mythology together.
He's probably a fire god in some very indirect ways he's considered in the same vein as utgaard Loki who was an enchanter and Illusionist in that story so I think of Loki as very much the norse god of adolescents and probably has more to do with heat hazes and flickering flames then blazes and torches if you get my meaning he has a kind of jinn energy despite being in another part of the world a positive aspect of him might have been something like the tooth fairy where childhood tokens were cast into the fireplace as offerings so that he would look after the children as I grew up in transitioned towards young adulthood
Yes, heat hazel and flickering flames I’ve heard from Scandinavian folk sayings - good points cheers 🙏
Thank you once again for your hard work love listening to you telling all these interesting stories x
Pleasure, thanks as always for watching and sharing thoughts 🙏✨
Brilliant again. Thanks 👌
Tyr is Ares/Mars. Odin is Hermes/Mercury. Thor is Zeus/Jupiter. Freya is Aphrodite/Venus. Loki is Cronus/Saturn. Probably.
I tend to avoid direct cross cultural associations where possible as it doesn’t always scan directly. If you want to Greco Roman it; Thor to Zeus is pretty clear. And Freya to Venus. So I’m with you thus far. It starts getting complicated with Tyr, more so with Woden (who has hermetic AND saturnalian qualities) and nigh on impossible with Loki (who also has hermetic and Promethean elements as well as… other stuff)
@@TheStoryCrow No, it doesn't scan directly. Different people's interpret the same things (told via myth) in different ways in different parts of the world using different languages over different time periods. The Sun as one example , has been depicted in so many different ways the world over and mythical depictions are being reinvented as we type! Loki will probably be found in some form or another the world over. Saturday is probably Lokis day (not washing). Saturn's day. I mean why would u have moon day, Tues/Tyrs day, Wodens day, Thors day, Freya's day, Washing day??!! and then the Sun's day? All the best. Like your vids 😁
Haha, yeah good point 😅 thanks for watching my friend 🙏✨
I don't really see the link with Freya and Venus, because she is much more than a goddess of love. She is a fertility goddess yes, and blond. But she is also a goddess of death and of magic (Seidr) ✨️She is quite complex. She taught Odin about magic, and half of the those who die in battle go to her domain Folkvangr. I am a Freya fan if you can't tell ;)
Hey man, do you have a Morrigan deity tracker planned?
I do now 😉🙏
@@TheStoryCrow Incredible thank you so much. I'm so happy I stumbled onto this channel a few days ago. I've been binging, I really enjoy the content and I'm happy to be here.
Ahhh, pleased to hear that friend. Welcome 🙏☺️
@@TheStoryCrowyes please!! 🤩
I think the similarities/connection her and her three-fold form have with the Hindu goddesses Parvati, Durga, and particularly Kali is extremely fascinating! It all circles back to the archetype of the fertile war maiden, and to me Shakti. ❤
On gods being 'gods of x,' it is wortj noting there is often a diagetic distinction. Eg, the Olympians are personalities; this is contrasted with the Titans, primal beings of various phenomenon or large physical structures (kind of like major _genius loci),_ and the Protogenoi (Primordials) who are their respective phenomenon, essences, or objects personified (eg Nyx is not the goddess of night, she literally _is_ Night). The Aesir are personalities foremost, with some of the more major entities of different groups (eg Surtr of the jotunns) being closer to Titans.
There is some reason to suspect that Hermes and Pan are a bifurcation of a single earlier deity. While this is highly speculative, I have mused for a while that Pan maps onto the zodiacal sign of Capricorn pretty well (one aspect of it, anyways), and I have argued for years that Odin fits far better as a Saturnian figure than a Mercurial figure, leaning towards its Capricorn expression (Capricorn being the entry to the afterlife, exaltation of Mars, esoteric altered states of consciousness, navigating the structure of reality to achieve the seemingly impossible, fathers and judgement, meloncholy and doom, etc). I likewise argue Loki is better understood as Mercurial. Tangentially, the other domicile of Saturn is Aquarius, which maps right onto Prometheus.
The _genius loci_ of the land Asgard is built on is an interesting proposition; the personality gods were often construed in their sign of exaltation, and Mercury's exaltation in Virgo (the mutable earth sign) is unique in being the only planet whose exaltation is in a sign it rules.
I think it is likely more that Loki is something along the lines of change and crafty trickery of which fire is one form in much the same way Prometheus gave fire to humans while lacking any inherent connection to fire itself. Notably, Prometheus is likely _not_ a standard Indo-European diety and likely spread independently from the general PIE invasions. We also get fire given to humans from non-fire entities or non-divine entities in other cultures, such as a bird or spider in much of the Americas north of modern Mexico.
Good points thanks for the input.
Especially re Hermes and Pan. May do a video on that soon.
As for Woden, I’m with you to a point. I’d say the mercurial nature was earlier in time, and the more saturnalian came later - at a guess. Or he’s always been both… he certainly has many trickster elements that don’t square with other aspects of his all-father nature.
Yes the Loki as Asgard’s genus loci is interesting isn’t it? But not that it detracts from other crafty interpretations, as you mention.
The theme here, for me, is that you can’t really trap gods into being one thing or another imo, only track them though labyrinths of potentiality 😉
Great comment though.
Thanks for sharing 🙏
Interesting ideas probably closer to the mark than what is circulating on the web.
LOL, why not both? Ask Sigyn for the answer, I'd say.
Hail Loki, my patron!
Yes indeed. But the algo gods love a dichotomy 😅
🔥
❤men made Loki into a Shapeshifter… That means that he is much-much older than Thor and other north gods.
It my 21 birthay just had bonfire got very stoned and drunk
Happy Birthday. We call it drunkie high, especially nice for birthdays
That’s where Loki lives! 🍻 🔥
Hope you had a good un
Loki does exist. So now you know. You should maybe look into what some of the Catholic exorcists might say. They know a bit about him. Though obviously when it comes to Loki in person they might not have met him, they will certainly have met people who can channel him.
Rather interestingly, if you watch the Kevin Smith movie Dogma, in which Matt Damon plays Loki, his companion played by Ben Affleck is called Bartleby. He uses the name Barry at one point in the movie. That is actually Loki's name this century.
This stuff is all kind of weird, but you'd expect it to be, all things considered.
He is intrinsically connected to Lucifer, but he is not Lucifer. Lucifer is the light bearer. That is basically a Thor identity. Odin doesn't quite have the oomph for it. Too mellow. If you want to bring the light, you need Thor's determination. You do have to be aware though, that Lucifer is the Morningstar, and not the trouble maker that he is always portrayed as. That's Satan's machinations, which give that impression. Thor might be aggravating, but what can you expect, when he has to deliver information about gods to a blind and deaf, ignorant species of determined secular atheists.
There was that time when Loki had to sell him out to the Romans, so that he got crucified to raise awareness. That made an impact, but it still didn't really educate people. They are a work in progress.
He is a Trickster Solar God, equivalent of Vishnu. The Norse were as Indo-European as the Hindu and God is God - the stories of each are about the same energy based *real* beings. They are both extensions of the proto-Getae, primordial Wolf-like tribes of beings in ancient pre-Neolithic Romania and surrounding.
Compare 'Building of the Asgard Walls' with the 'Churning the Milk of the Ocean'. They are the same cosmic event! In both, there is a contest where maleficent beings are involved on purpose, and in each one the maleficent beings end up cheating and trying to win everything falsely. In both, the Trickster pulls a Naruto style "sexy jutsu" and turns into a hot girl version, to distract the enemy to steal the prize back. In both of them, the goal is to build a protection for the Gods that will last for eternity - the potion for the Hindu, the walls for the Norse.
Queen Hel is a femme presentation of Lord Shiva. Shiva is Ardhanarishvara - the King who is Half-Queen. Queen Hel is the same, half a dead skeleton man, and half a living Sorceress. To understand the Norse, seek to understand the Hindu. God is God, only the story changes.
Yes, good myth comparisons there. Love the links between different branches indo-European cosmology and mythology.
I don’t conflate them any more, (I used to) now I look at them as distinct but connected. Like refractions through a crystal.
I often feel that gods take offence when you deny them their distinct personalities.
I wouldn’t want to piss Loki off 😂
@@TheStoryCrow Or Vishnu! 😂
"Distinct yet connected" is perfect - I think of it as emanations, and they're all worthy of love. God did not want 'one story' to describe themselves - they wanted exactly this, many stories of many characters yet all written with love - it's beautiful!
Interesting point - I feel permission to be distinct is needed for humanity, as well. The 'we are all the same' jargon of pop culture nondualism has been damaging. We are not all the same, and there are experiential differences between the sexes related to chakra that people do not know about yet should discuss, as they matter. Yet people don't talk about it as the conversation was frozen with shaming. I'm able to openly discuss it as I am - pretty much the filly mare! Looking for my Unlucky Traveler...
With 'reflections like a crystal' I wonder if you've explored Monadology, and the really cool Hieroglyphic Monad? It helps to unite the concepts.
Keep up the good work :)
🦉
hes both (if ya nasty)
A shamanic story of him tells how he aquired his magick. He stole it from an elf who found him near to death and healed him. After convalescing and fully recovering he sacrificed the elf with the help of a demon by throwing him in a fire. He is given that power by that fire demon. You can tell that an individual of such cold hearted cruelty was/is disliked so intensely by the Aesir.
That's an interesting one! Haven't heard that. Thanks for sharing it, do you have a source for it?
🪐⭐🌟🌠🌌
Hol up, I thought this was just a mistake OSP made a while back when discussing the eddas, if loki was a fire god how was he beaten by logi?
At the most I recall Loki being closely connected to hearths or forges thanks to the story of how thor got hi hammer in which the dwarvs sew loki's mouth shut. Often stones depicting that would b placed at the bellows or something right? however I don't think thats enough to call him a firegod when a god of change fits much better for him.
(edit)
Okay damn, a lot of the things I was thinking were brought up, I did consider the controlled vs wild fire thing, and the idea of Loki being a wildfire that was domesticated by the gods as a force of necessary change is really fascinating.
Well, like I say in the video, logic shouldn’t necessarily apply to mythology - but possibly because logi is wild fire and Loki (in this context) is the domestic or hearth fire. But it’s a strange story, with three lokis. They may all be aspects of Loki.
@@TheStoryCrow Ye, I've been reacting as I watch and just reached that part, hence the diff edits to my post